All In With Chris Hayes, Wednesday, May 29th, 2013
Read the transcript from the Wednesday show
ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
May 29, 2013
Guests: Dan Savage, Mason Tvert
CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. And
thank you for joining us tonight.
All right. Let the weed wars begin as Colorado becomes the first
state in the world to legalize recreational marijuana use.
Plus, Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg is encouraging working women
to lean in, but new data out today shows how much leaning in we all -- all
of us, men and women -- have to do.
And as a service to hyperbolic Republicans -- tonight, we offer a
reminder there is one and blessedly only one Richard Milhous Nixon.
But we begin tonight with -- well, another of whom of there is only
one, the one and only Michele Bachmann.
Five years ago, if I said that name to you on this program, you would
have had no idea who the heck I was talking about. Michele Bachmann
happened at that point to be a freshman member of Congress in Minnesota and
there are even still lots of members of Congress whose names you probably
There are a good number whose names I don`t know, and I know this
stuff for a living. Let`s face it, there are literally hundreds of them
and most of them are unremarkable and absent from your daily life.
The reason you know Michele Bachmann`s name among the 434 members of
the House who do not personally represent you is because Michele Bachmann
has made sure you know the name Michele Bachmann, because Michele
Bachmann`s vocation isn`t actually member of Congress, it`s being someone
who is known by the people like you.
Today, we know that Michele Bachmann will not be seeking reelection
next year, a decision she announced, fittingly, because it`s the medium she
works within, in a web video -- a long, long, aggressively boring and over-
musically scored web video. There were moments, however, in the eight-plus
minutes of her straight to camera monologue of pure trademark Michele
Bachmann amazingness, starting with the not reasons she`s leaving Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Be assured, my decision was not
in any way influenced by any concerns about my being reelected to Congress.
And rest assured, this decision was not impacted in any way by the recent
inquiries into the activities of my former presidential campaign or my
former presidential staff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: As convincing as Rob Ford`s crack-cocaine denial -- no,
America, Michele Bachmann is not quitting Congress because she might lose
her seat to the guy who almost unseated her last year, or because the FBI
is now investigating her 2012 presidential campaign.
But those things are happening in Michele Bachmann`s life, right now.
Coincidentally, in polling out last week, Bachmann`s Democrat opponent was
beating her, 47 percent to 45 percent, the same guy who came within 5,000
votes of unseating her last year and has already announced he`s running
And that`s on top of news from a week and a half ago that the FBI has
now joined the investigation into campaign spending around Bachmann`s 2012
presidential campaign, an investigation already being undertaken by the
Office of Congressional Ethics, FEC, and Iowa State Senate`s Ethics
Committee. But rest assured, that is not why Michele Bachmann is leaving
Congress, she made that very clear.
The thing is, she never really did articulate in the eight and a half
minute web video why she is leaving Congress, but she did something better,
talked about how awesome member of Congress she was and how awesome
something or other she`s going to be when she leaves Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BACHMANN: Over the next 18 months, I will continue to work 100-hour
weeks, and will continue to do everything that I can to advance our
conservative constitutional principles, being the primary sponsor of the
bill that recently passed in the House to repeal Obamacare. I`ve called
out the Muslim jihad terrorists for who they are, and for the evil that
they perpetrate upon our people. I`ve identified at the outset of the so-
called Arab Spring, this administration`s foreign policy blunders and how
those blunders have contributed into turning the Middle East into a
devastating, evil, jihadist earthquake.
I want you to be assured there is no future option or opportunity, be
it directly in the political arena or otherwise, that I won`t be giving
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Consider it all, Michele Bachmann.
Now think of that as an audition tape for Michele Bachmann`s next act
and think of her decision to leave Congress as a carefully calculated
career move. It`s all part of her expanding role as someone who is known
by people like you. That`s a trajectory that began five shorts years ago
on this network when Michele Bachmann launched her profile as a fresh
member of Congress here on MSNBC during an interview with our own Chris
Matthews by saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BACHMANN: The news media should do a penetrating expose and take a
look -- I wish they would -- I wish the American media would take a great
look at the views of the people in Congress and find out, are they pro-
America or anti-America? I think people would be -- would love to see an
expose like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That bit of McCarthyism recall came just weeks before the 2008
election and made Michele Bachmann famous, like big, big, big time virally
famous. It also raised more than $400,000 for her Democratic opponent
inside of 24 hours.
It was not enough to defeat Michele Bachmann. She eked out a three-
point victory that year and a conservative star was born. She became a
special kind of creature, which is completely distinct from a regular old
member of Congress.
She became a cable news brawler, a political version of a professional
wrestler and her announcement today is an indication she prefers cable news
brawler to member of Congress, hence the decision to quit Congress to focus
on being someone whose name you know professionally.
And here`s the thing: for all the snark we direct at Michele Bachmann,
really who could blame her? Let`s be real here for a second and compare
and contrast her options here.
All right. As a member of Congress, she has to answer whiney
constituent mail about potholes. As a professional pundit, answer the
phone when your driver calls to tell you he`s waiting in the driver to take
you to tonight`s paid speech or television appearance.
As a member of Congress, you have to spend six hours a day on calling
on fickle donors and begging them for money to fund your next campaign,
which is literally always on the horizon. As a professional pundit, you
watch direct deposits from Roger Ailes land right in your bank account,
just for being you, but on TV.
As a member of Congress, you have to study briefings on amendments, to
the continuing resolution to fund the government. As a professional
pundit, you would sign a 24-year-old to ghost write a bestselling book for
So, it is not exactly surprising that Michele Bachmann is making this
What does it mean about her politics, though, and the way that our
country is governed that this is the calculus she was facing? What does it
say about the electoral consequences of being a cable news star for sitting
politicians and for the prospects of a movement that so reliably churns out
Joining me at the table, Joan Walsh, editor at large for "Salon" and
author of "What`s the Matter with White People," that includes Michele
Bachmann. And Dan Savage, syndicated columnist, host of "Savage Lovecast,"
and author of the brand new book you should check out "American Savage."
All right, Michele Bachmann, I guess I was actually sort of surprised
she did this, but once we sat in the editorial meeting, what would you do
if you were Michele Bachmann, it makes perfect sense, right?
JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: Yes, it does. I mean, she`s also facing -- I
love the whole pay no attention to FBI investigation behind the curtain
part of her word salad generated video.
DAN SAVAGE, HOST, "SAVAGE LOVEFEST": And she led with that.
HAYES: That was the beginning. The beginning was this whole long
thing about all the reasons she`s not quitting, and it`s not because of the
FBI and it`s not --
HAYES: -- she`s going to get her butt kicked in --
WALSH: No, none of those things.
SAVAGE: And I`m glad it was at the beginning, because I got through
about four minutes before I had to go back to watching porn. Only so many
minutes in the row I can take of Michele Bachmann before I need a palate
WALSH: I watched more of it, but didn`t get very much out of it.
But, you know, it`s really tempting to play this exclusively for
laughs, and let`s play it mostly for laughs. But we have to remember when
she showed up on the scene, it was a very ugly time in American politics.
Barack Obama was pretty much going to win, but the Sarah Palin rallies of
that same era, I think it was October, there were clouds.
HAYES: Backlash politics, the purest form of backlash politics.
WALSH: And so, you had people screaming "kill him" at Palin rallies,
he was hanging around with terrorists. And then, you had Michele Bachmann
come on this network and be Joe McCarthy in lipstick.
WALSH: And really feel no compunction about saying many, most
Democrats in Congress were anti-American.
SAVAGE: And the only thing to McCain`s credit he did in the entire
campaign is push back against that, push back against his own vice
HAYES: So, here`s the question, Michele Bachmann`s making, I think, a
rational choice in the face of the incentives, and it`s interesting that
Jim DeMint, who is a senator, a United States senator, say, I`m going to
run a think tank, because that`s more influential. Can you really ruin
that think tank?
So, what I think is really interesting, though, is there`s two ways to
look at Bachmann`s departure as signaling some end to that ugly period,
right? The bookends are the real backlash politics in 2008 that reached
the culmination of the Tea Party and the ugliness there and are now on the
wane and are, you know, no longer ascendant, or you can see as Michele
Bachmann is, essentially, the John the Baptist to the people that came
after her, like Ted Cruz, who`s kind of the Michele Bachmann with elite
pedigree and tremendous rhetorical skills.
HAYES: So my question for you, Dan, particularly given the fact that
she comes out of the evangelical movement, she comes out of the real core,
religious, anti-gay base of this movement, whether you see this as
something that`s going to endure the Michele Bachmann base or does signal
some kind of end to that period.
SAVAGE: Well, I think the Republican base, the evangelical Christians
at the heart of the Republican base, they`re going to endure sort of idiot
parliament for a long time. They`re not going anywhere.
SAVAGE: No one is getting through the Iowa caucuses, if they exist in
three and a half years, without pandering and appealing to that base. It
could be Cruz and it could be Rick Santorum, who runs around reminding all
of us that he won 11 states, so did Ronald Reagan in 1976, and then he came
back and got the nomination and won the White House.
HAYES: That`s a good point.
SAVAGE: It`s not going anywhere. Maybe in retreat, and I think
Michele Bachmann, one thing she didn`t talk about was that the anti-gay
marriage amendment to the Minnesota state constitution that she shepherded,
that she backed, was rejected by the voters and then the Democrats and the
Democratic governor there was really swept into power, the opposite of
their intended effect. They thought they`d rally the haters in their base
to pour into the ballot box, ala 2004, and they got the opposite and now,
we have same-sex marriage rights in Minnesota.
And she did say that she would leave Minnesota if marriage rights came
HAYES: Well, she also -- it also represents the kind of trajectory
arc of this kind of evangelical movement, because it was the vanguard for a
lot of victories in the early part of Michele Bachmann`s career and what
launched her into politics. And now, here she sits in front of this video
having seen her state reject exactly the kind of politics that brought her
into public life to begin with.
WALSH: They are in retreat on those issues, but they are not
generally in retreat. And I think we are going to see a Ted Cruz. We`re
going to see people with more finesse.
You know, she was never interested in governing anyone. I think she
passed one bill. So, why would she as your graphics laid out so perfectly
tonight -- why wouldn`t she ka-ching, take the paycheck, take the cars,
make the speeches, and give up on all this nonsense, especially around
campaign finance complications?
SAVAGE: That`s what she`s looking at and a lot of people in her camp
are looking at, their rhetoric and their style. We`ll win primaries still,
but it`s not going to win elections anymore.
HAYES: And there`s a durable base both financially and the media
sphere for what she has to offer.
WALSH: Well, like Rick Santorum, there`s wing nut welfare. They
leave Congress and they get millions of dollars from right-wing people.
SAVAGE: Think tanks.
HAYES: But here`s an even deeper point than that. It`s not just
that. Let`s look at former lawmakers who quit lawmaking and do other
things. So, Billy Tauzin leaves, he doesn`t seek reelection. He joins
Sarah Palin leaves to become a multimillionaire multimedia property.
Evan Bayh didn`t see reelection, joined FOX News Channel, became a
lobbyist; Heath Shuler, Jim DeMint.
What this says to me there`s something really sad about this whole
thing, which is that being a member of Congress was once the thing you
wanted to get to. It was the major leagues. And now being a member of
Congress is the farm team, the thing right before the thing you want to get
to, the major leagues, which is any one of these much more highly paid,
WALSH: Which is anything to make a lot of money, whether it`s big
pharma, or whether it`s a hedge fund, or whether it`s wing-nut welfare.
Ands I mean, not part of it is bipartisan, because you mentioned some of
our lovely former Democrats.
HAYES: That`s my point.
But also the feeling that when you look at being a member of Congress
between calling for six hours a day and the fact that the Washington feels
completely broken and dysfunctional, particularly Congress, it`s like --
WALSH: It could be a rational decision. I`m not sure it`s a totally
rational decision on her part, because I`m not sure any of them have been,
but, you know, she`s going to have a lot of fun.
SAVAGE: And Sarah Palin --
WALSH: Look at Sarah Palin, right?
SAVAGE: Sarah Palin fatally wounded her political prospects when she
HAYES: Exactly, she chose one over the other and she thought she
could do both. And that`s also --
HAYES: You can be one or the other, you can be the professional
wrestler figure or you can actually be a viable political candidate. But
as of now, you cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
Quickly, Dan, people call Michele Bachmann crazy a lot, people on our
side, broadly, and it always drives me crazy a little bit because I just
feel this word has this dismissive venom to it that doesn`t grapple
seriously with someone who just has a set of beliefs.
SAVAGE: Someone that goes on TV and says the HPV virus causes mental
retardation. She said a lot of blatantly crazy --
WALSH: Barack Obama -- Obamacare will, literally, kill women and
children. I --
HAYES: You`re making the argument for using the word.
SAVAGE: Occasionally, you have to call a nut a nut. And this woman
is a bit of a nut, and not a bit of a nut, she`s a lot of a nut. And she`s
one of those people that came out of my mouth, it must be true, and she
examines her statements after they came out of her mouth.
HAYES: I still think there was fascinating today everyone was
mourning the departure of Michele Bachmann for like traffic of whatever Web
sites. There is something about her as villain that was, for a certain
period of time, still is, like massively compelling to people and part of
it is the fact the things she said were so far out there.
But there`s something also like the crazy eyes and this kind of image
that we drew of her.
SAVAGE: Can we throw her husband on the table?
HAYES: We can`t -- Marcus is a whole other show.
Joan Walsh of "Salon" and Dan Savage, author of "American Savage" --
thank you both.
Up next, the next big, lucrative massively influential American
industry begins to take shape in Colorado. Legal marijuana regulations go
into effect. Big tobacco 2.0?
We`ll be right back.
HAYES: Breaking news tonight out of New York City and Washington,
D.C. Authorities say letters sent to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg
primarily tested positive for the poison ricin. The anonymous letters were
opened in New York City on Friday, another tainted letter was sent to the
director of Bloomberg`s group Mayors Against Illegal Guns in Washington.
Officials said the letters contain threatening comments about Mayor
Bloomberg`s support for gun safety. We`ll follow this story here and on
our Web site, allinwithchris.com.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT: Leading medical researchers are
coming to the conclusion that marijuana, pot, grass, whatever you want to
call it, is probably the most dangerous drug in the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That was a little over 30 years ago, and, well, we have come a
long way. If you`ve ever wondered what it would look like to live in a
world where marijuana was legal and regulated, in Colorado, that day has
Yesterday, Governor John Hickenlooper made history by signing four
bills to make his state the first state in the country to fully regulate
the recreational use, sale, and consumption of marijuana for adults.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), COLORADO: Clearly, we are charting new
territory. Other states haven`t been through this process in the same way
we have. Recreational marijuana is really a completely new entity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: This is not a small deal. Colorado has now created a legal
marijuana regime that is more expansive than anything that exists anywhere
else in the world, and it is one of the truly remarkable social experiments
of our time, one in which a U.S. state attempts to transfer a black market
criminal activity into a legitimate business and industry. Pulling that
off is no small task, and here`s how they are doing it.
House Bill 1317 and Senate Bill 283 set up the regulatory framework
for Colorado, dictating how the pot can grow and be sold. The state allows
adults over 21 to buy and possess up to an ounce of the drug. If you`re
not a Colorado resident, you`ll be allowed to buy a quarter ounce per
transaction. Colorado residents can also grow up to six plants, also --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: The law requires advertising restrictions, childproof
packaging, and limits on how much THC can be in edible products.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: One of the big appeals of this campaign was the fact they even
called it the campaign to regulate marijuana like alcohol, and they are
taking that seriously. The bills require all marijuana products to include
warning labels, serving size, meaning it`s a quarter ounce or half ounce,
and information on how much THC content it contains, which, of course, is
the ingredient in marijuana that gets you high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Much like liquor, you`re going to know how much drug you`re
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That`s important, because the THC blood limit became the law
the moment Governor Hickenlooper put his name to paper yesterday. In
Colorado, you`re now too high to drive if your blood contains more than 5
nanograms of THC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. MARK WALLER (R), COLORADO: THC typically stays in the
system for up to three to four hours, again, sometimes longer based on the
type of ingestion and also the potency of the marijuana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Everyone will have to study up on this stuff, including the
police, who are now required to get new drug DUI training, presumably
because the walk the yellow line test doesn`t matter if you`re high,
because the law will allow the person to refute the charge, that they are
too high to drive. As Republican State Representative Mark Waller puts it,
if you did not exhibit poor driving, you can put that on as evidence to
say, look, my driving was not poor, I`m not unsafe to operate a motor
All right. So all of this are pretty common sense. So far,
legislators have focused on the relatively easy part, how to regulate
consumption. The real war to come is over how to regulate and oversee what
is quickly going to become an extremely lucrative brand new industry, an
industry one former Microsoft executive turned would be drug entrepreneur
says, quote, "will mint millionaires faster than Microsoft."
Joining me tonight from Denver, Colorado, Mason Tvert communications
director for the Marijuana Policy Project. Mason run the campaign for the
Colorado marijuana legalization ballot initiative.
Also, Mason, here`s my question, the politics in Colorado on this
issue, it was -- it was a fiercely fought battle, the ballot initiative.
There were a lot of sitting members of the state legislator, the governor,
I think, was officially opposed to it.
Are they still trying -- are they still opposed to it, are the
politics such they are trying to do what Republicans are doing to
Obamacare, which is make sure the thing blows up and doesn`t work, or is
there buy-in from the state`s politicians to try to make this thing work?
MASON TVERT, MARIJUANA POLICY PROJECT: Well, I think by and large
there is a great deal of buy-in. Our governor, along with a great number
of our state legislators and other state officials, folks with various
agencies that would be dealing with this have really come together and put
together what is a very robust, comprehensive, and responsible regulatory
There are certainly still some folks who want to do everything they
can to keep adults from using marijuana or in some cases punish adults if
they use marijuana, but by and large, we`re seeing really a system coming
together, people working in the same direction.
HAYES: So my question about the industry is the thing I find most
fascinating here. Are you afraid of creating a monster, and what I mean by
that is I`ve already seen articles about the industry hiring lobbyist,
spending a lot of money on lobbyists.
This, of course, will be an industry that`s very closely regulated,
and so being able to influence politicians is going to be very important.
And right now, particularly in the beginning, when there`s no brand
occupying that space, seems there`s lots of money to be made on the table.
Is this going to be a really brutal lobbying battle behind the scenes
to figure out how this industry is structured?
TVERT: Well, you know, if you could point to an industry that doesn`t
have lobbyists and doesn`t work to, you know, establish policies that will
allow it to function, then, you know, good luck. But the fact is that this
will be and already is an industry like any other. It`s an industry that`s
working to be responsible.
Up until this point, we have had a marijuana industry in this country
and in Colorado. It`s been drug cartels and gangs, and we haven`t known
who`s growing marijuana, who they are selling it to, where and when, or
what people are buying. Now we will know that.
So, you know, this is a new industry. We have the ability to start
from scratch. This isn`t big tobacco. Let`s put this in context. Tobacco
kills about 400,000 Americans per year, alcohol about 40,000 Americans and
marijuana has never killed a single human being in history.
So that`s not to say it shouldn`t be regulated and controlled, it`s
just to say that while this is new and some people might have knee-jerk
reactions, we need to treat the product like it is, which is a relatively
benign substance that millions of adults in this country use responsibly.
HAYES: Jimmy Carter`s former drug czar, Dr. Peter Bourne, said back
in 2012 the tobacco companies set up model programs so if they were to
legalize, they can jump into marketing. I know there`s been a lot of
concern -- you said it`s not big tobacco -- about this becoming an adjunct
of big tobacco or the next version of big tobacco.
Who is investing right now? Where is the money coming for, for the
industry in Colorado in its nascent state?
TVERT: Well, quite frankly, you know, I`m not seeing any big tobacco
involvement. But if the folks at big tobacco would like to ditch
cigarettes and start selling a product that doesn`t kill anyone, I think
that would be a net positive.
But ultimately, the people getting into this are typical people that
would invest in any business. One of the things that I look at this
industry like here in Colorado is the restaurant industry. There`s a lot
of competition, there`s a lot of stress involved, there`s a lot of
overhead, not everyone can cut it, but, you know, someone goes out of
business, someone else buys them out, and some people are successful and
they start a chain. I mean, it`s really just like any other industry.
HAYES: That`s going to be interesting to see whether that competition
is borne out as this becomes reality. Mason Tvert of the Marijuana Policy
Project, thank you.
TVERT: Thanks for having me.
HAYES: All right. For anyone who likes to compare the latest scandal
du jour with Watergate, a public service on your behalf is coming up next.
HAYES: Senate minority leader/bourbon enthusiast/obstructer in chief,
Mitch McConnell, is pulling in dead heat with the potential Democratic
rival in his bid for reelection to his Kentucky Senate seat.
And fresh off that news, McConnell`s campaign released one of those
online overproduced campaign ads that look like Jerry Bruckheimer trailer,
if Bruckheimer made movies about the House Oversight Committee.
It`s a kind of scandal-palooza, a highlight reel, focusing on
testimony in the IRS Tea Party 501(c)(4) scandallette.
But then, there`s this moment --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t know at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not aware of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIIFED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no memory of anyone doing that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t know that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not personally responsible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe it is illegal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe it is.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT: When the president does it, that
means that it is not illegal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Catch that? That, of course, is the famous
Richard Nixon exchange from the infamous Frost-Nixon interview in 1977.
The reason that quote is so justly famous is it succinctly articulates
Nixon`s world view and his own justification for his serial pathological,
Now McConnell`s indication of Nixon is a useful, teachable moment,
because I`ve been hearing conservatives over the last few weeks using the
adjectives Nixonian or invoking Watergate in relation to Benghazi or the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a president who is inner Nixon is being
revealed, this is a government that is out of control.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven`t seen anyone since Richard Nixon with the
same instinct of being isolated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never seen anything quite like this except in
the past during the Nixon years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It strikes me that anyone that says that with a straight face
has no idea the breathtaking scope and criminality of Nixon. President
Obama`s assertion of legal authority to kill American citizens without
indictment or judicial oversight is both wrong and offensive to our
conception of the law.
The Justice Department`s reckless overuse and abuse of subpoenas of
journalists in leak investigations is chilling and destructive, but
Nixonian means a very specific thing, if you want to talk about the IRS,
here is what Nixonian means in the context of the IRS.
I want to be sure he`s a ruthless son of a bitch. That he will do
what he`s told. That every income tax return I want to see, I`ll see,
he`ll go after our enemies and not after our friends. That was President
Richard Nixon describing his ideal candidate for new IRS commissioner on
May 13th, 1971.
Thanks to the Watergate investigation and the secret recordings that
were uncovered, we know exactly how Nixon felt about using the IRS to go
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIXON: Why are we going after their tax returns? I -- you know what I
mean? There`s a lot of gold in them there. I can only hope that we are,
frankly, doing a little persecuting, right? We ought to persecute them --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That`s not some bureaucrat in the Cincinnati office of the IRS
sorting applications, that`s the president of the United States directly
asking for the IRS to persecute his political enemies. Conservatives talk
about President Obama bringing Chicago-style politics in his rough and
tumble approach to adversaries.
Here is what Nixonian means when it comes to going after your
political enemies. President Richard Nixon viewed the liberal think tank
the Brookings Institution as a political enemy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIXON: We`re up against an enemy, a conspiracy. They`re using any
means. We are going to use any means. Is that clear? Did they get the
Brookings Institute raided last night? Get it done. I want it done. I
want the Brookings cleaned out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I want the Brookings Institute safe cleaned out. Another
political enemy, former military analyst who leaked the Pentagon papers to
Congress, needless to say, Nixon was not a fan. His White House went after
him, and not just through legal channels, which is how the Department of
Defense has gone after Bradley Manning with appalling ruthlessness. No,
no, no, through criminal side channels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIXON: So, tomorrow we` review all this stuff. We tried a few -- we
had one little operation that aborted out in Los Angeles, which I think, is
better that you don`t know about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Agreed.
NIXON: But we`ve got some dirty tricks under way that may pay off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: All right, that operation that he wasn`t telling Nixon about
involved the wiretapping and burglary at a shrink`s office to root through
his records and bug him. By the way, none of this is the actual Watergate
break-in. This was just all, or some of the stuff, we found out because of
the investigation of the malfeasance that wound out forcing Nixon out of
The fact Richard Nixon was a sociopathic, criminal syndicate does
nothing to excuse wrongdoing by the Obama administration, but ever since
the 1970s, Republicans and conservatives embarrassed by Nixon have been on
the lookout for the next Watergate and always convinced they`d have their
We`ve been here before, and in the absence of evidence, until proven
otherwise, there remains only one incomparable Dick Nixon, and thank God
for that. We`ll be right back with Click 3.
HAYES: Facebook Executive Sheryl Sandberg has put a spotlight on
gender equalities inequalities in the professional world, but we have more
evidence today that working moms still face a disproportionate struggle.
Congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz shares her experience coming up.
But first I want to share the three awesomest things on the internet
today, I am obsessed with the quickest ways to get places, the fastest
routes, and with New York`s new bike share program officially under way,
the "New York Times" is having a bike share derby, bike against subway in a
Race one, pizzeria in Manhattan to pizzeria in Brooklyn, Google Maps
pegs the race at 2.5 miles and after a handshake, they are off. The time
lapsed adding just the right amount of urgency and suspense until subway
dude gets stuck on a platform trying to change lanes. Ultimate victor is
bike lady by 14 minutes to the pretty big margin of victory. The derby
includes motor races, bike winning 3 out of 5, subway winning 1 out of 5,
with the final race going to angry cab driver, always a winner.
Second awesomest thing on the internet day, broadcast legend Larry
King is getting a brand new political show on the RT Cable Network. The
promo begins like this, so buzz feed has created some gifts, paying homage
to King, like, are you my daddy, I`m not quite sure what`s that supposed to
mean, here`s Johnny, and how long have you been standing there?
I ask my staff that one all the time. Since RT stands for Russia
Today, we were treated to this headline, Larry joins the Kremlin, which is
not really true, but would make for a great "curb your enthusiasm" episode.
The third awesomest thing on the internet today, kids in a Minneapolis
school singing about khaki pants. Here`s khaki, the pants, and Cathy, the
dance. For all the kids trapped in school uniforms out there, swag isn`t
what you wear, swag is the mentality.
The music video come from a kids` hiphop group described as the YM
Rich Kids, presents the NFJ crew and it turns out to have an amazing
origin, after school program in Minneapolis, Minnesota, since May 2009, the
beats and rhymes program has produced eight albums. For these kids, bling
is just a state of mind. You can find all the links on our website,
allinwithchris.com. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Family and medical leave is a matter
of pure common sense and a matter of common decency. It will provide
Americans what they need most, peace of mind. Never again will parents
have to fear losing their jobs because of their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That was a promise President Clinton offered to the American
people 20 years ago when signing the family medical leave act. And if you
saw the headlines today about a new study from the Pew Research Center
called "Breadwinner Moms," you might think we finally arrived at that peace
of mind. But that title and positive sounding headlines belie pretty jaw-
dropping details in the study showing just how far from that promise we
The main point that was taken away from the report is that 40 percent
of all households, all with children under the age of 18 include mothers
either the sole or primary source of income for the family, that`s up from
just 11 percent in 1960.
And the reaction to that reality has had an aura of feminism on the
march, like this from "Sex in the City" author Candice Bushnell who tweeted
my base of my 2005 novel, Lipstick Jungle, world is catching up or the
study we`ve seen as yet another salvo and ongoing culture war between the
left and the right.
Ted Cruz speechwriter, Amanda Carpenter captured the reaction quite
nicely saying instead of trumpeting the study as feminist achievements, we
should be finding ways to increase father`s role and contributions.
The real story from the data is neither of those, it is that women are
struggling tremendously in this economy, especially the 8.6 million single
mothers in the United States whose median, median family income is one-
fourth that of their married counterparts, $23,000, compared to nearly
$80,000 family income of married mothers who earn more than their husbands.
Those single mothers are also younger, more likely to be black or
Hispanic and less likely to have a college degree. They are also not
necessarily choosing to be the sole breadwinner in the family, they are
working to pay rent and put food on the table for their children, today is
viewed by a significant majority, 64 percent of Americans, as a big
There`s so much in this study and the reaction to entangle, I`m
excited to have with me Congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Democrat from
Florida, chair of the Democratic National Committee, Monifa Bandele, the
campaign director of momsrising.org, the grassroots organization focusing
on women, mothers, and families, and Rebecca Traister, contributor of "New
York Times" magazine and author of "Big Girls Don`t Cry, The Election That
Changed Everything For American Women." Great to have you all here.
All right, so these studies always get a lot of attention. We were
talking about it excitedly in our news meeting this morning. You were
reacting on Twitter both to the study and to the coverage.
REBECCA TRAISTER, AUTHOR, "BIG GIRLS DON`T CRY": I read about it in
"The New York Times." So I see the headline and the headline is, you know,
top mothers are now top earners, top earners puts you in mind of the
shoulder padded Diane Keaton ladies with the corner offices. This was in
"The New York Times." This was not a right wing rag that was suddenly
immediately worried about fatherhood.
You get the two paragraphs that herald this news, women are making
more money in four out of ten families, and in the third graph, before you
get to the numbers that tell you 63 percent of the top-earning moms are
single mothers earning a median of $23,000, before you get to that, you
have three paragraphs about the other findings of the study, which is that
people still think that this is bad for society, that women working for pay
and working outside the home is bad, and that was the bigger news.
HAYES: Does that part of it resonate in the politics that you pursue?
What`s happening in this country increasingly is roles are changing in the
way that we live and the way people feel about that is very torn and
complicated, and I wonder how that affects the politics of an issue like
REPRESENTATIVE DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D), FLORIDA: You know, just
the perfect example is when I ran for Congress and I was two months`
pregnant with my youngest daughter and the editorial page editor of one of
my local papers when I went to interview for my endorsement asked if
whether my opponent had been saying you could be a good mom and good member
of Congress, but you couldn`t be both at the same time, and if that was
true and how I was going to deal with it.
SCHULTZ: So what I said to him was that I`d be happy to answer that
question if you can assure me he asked male candidates with young kids the
same question and that was the end of the conversation.
HAYES: I want to talk about the twin things that are happening, women
earning more than their husbands is one interesting category and then what
single women are facing, I want to talk about all that after we take this
HAYES: Breadwinners, breadwinners, breadwinners. What a weird term,
40 percent of American households are helmed by a woman breadwinner with
Debbie Wasserman Shultz, activist, Monifa Bandele, and journalist Rebecca
Traister. What was your take away from the study?
MONIFA BANDELE, MOMSRISING.ORG: Right away. I mean, you started with
the Bill Clinton clip, wow, it`s a long time coming, but you know, next
month is the equal pay act and 50 years later, there`s still a huge wage
gap. So the fact that you have some women earning more than their spouses
is what they lead with. You still have this huge pay gap that is increased
if you`re a mom tremendously, you know, is the real story, it`s really a
HAYES: Part of the stat about this 4 in 10 is the fact so many of
those households are helmed by single moms. When you`re just looking at
married couples, in 1960, just 6 percent of married couples had a woman
earning more than a husband. It has increased four folds quite a bit, but
it`s still only 24 percent, and, of course, there`s a lot of stuff in 2013,
loaded psychological stuff about what that does to a marriage.
SCHULTZ: At the beginning of our marriage, I made more than my
husband and I stressed out about it, that it would bother him. Turns out
he`s comfortable in his own skin and was fine with it, but I had some angst
for awhile. It`s not the case now. We`ve flipped, especially with my
public service, but that is not something that women should have to worry
Just to give you another example, we`re debating in Florida
legislation that Governor Rick Scott is about to decide whether to veto to
sign that would actually prohibit local governments from passing paid sick
HAYES: We`ve covered that on this program. If the citizens of Miami
think that`s a proper policy --
SCHULTZ: Which they do.
HAYES: It would get knocked down at the state level.
SCHULTZ: It would be pre-empted so local governments couldn`t do it.
I wrote a letter to the governor urging him to veto that bill, hopefully,
BANDELE: That`s a big contributor to the wage gap between moms and
non-moms and moms and men. When you have to take off from work and your
job is not secure there for you or unpaid, it threatens the family economic
SCHLUTZ: FMLA is great.
HAYES: It`s unpaid time off. It is great, but when you look around -
SCHULTZ: It doesn`t have what it needs.
TRAISTER: I was watching that Bill Clinton clip and he`s talking
about decency and I think, yes, you know what would be more decent if we
paid people like people are paid around the world. We lag so far behind in
this kind of human decency and respect for families.
HAYES: Here`s the question. You see the trends here, everyone
understands these things are happening and some ways more slowly than we`d
like, but it doesn`t seem like our politics do respond to it and I`m
curious why there is that mismatch. You have a situation right now, single
women, young women, just core Democratic constituencies. My question to
you, what are you delivering to them, giving them for voting your way?
SCHULTZ: What we`re delivering to young women and women in general is
a focus on their equality, on making sure we adopt policies that ensure
that they can be paid more, paid more equally, that we give them equal
access to health care, and we focus on job creation for the middle class
and working families.
SCHULTZ: That will lift them up.
HAYES: Lilly Ledbetter -- what is paycheck fairness?
BANDELE: The teeth we needed behind the equal pay act. It`s going to
allow people to discuss their wages, a lot of time women don`t know if they
are being paid equal to their male counterparts and puts it on par with
racial discrimination and other types of discrimination.
SCHULTZ: Between the two parties, we debated and voted down in the
appropriations committee the other day an amendment by my colleague who
simply tried to say that federal subcontractors couldn`t have policies in
place to prohibit employees from discussing pay so that women -- voted down
on a party line vote.
HAYES: Wait, wait, wait, take me through that. If you have a
contract with the federal government, you could not have a policy that
prohibited employees discussing pay for precisely the reason of just
allowing people to discuss it so they could figure out.
SCHULTZ: Exactly. We had a debate on that, the amendment was
offered, all the Democrats voted yes, all the Republicans voted no.
HAYES: Jennifer Ruben had this reaction, which I thought was
interesting to the study today, conservative and extremely Republican
aligned commentator. She says going forward, Republicans would be wise to
change their tone. It`s not pandering, it is explained you understand
their situation and are focused on them. Put it this way, the right wing
media applauds is precisely the type that turns off women voters that
aren`t already die hard Republicans.
TRAISTER: Fascinating statistic is 23 percent of the electorate in
2012 was single women and they voted Barack Obama over Mitt Romney 70
percent to 30 percent. They basically and by many measures won the
HAYES: That is the part of the wedge. I don`t know if we have that
graphic, that is growing, that`s a huge part of the growth that`s given us
TRAISTER: Yes. So we talk about how politics are bending around
immigration because of demographic changes. Actually, both parties should
be responding to this demographic change and the exploding population of
HAYES: This shows how much the read of the exit polls determines so
much, because everyone had the read of the election results, which is that
Republicans need to get right with Latinos, which they absolutely do and
got slaughtered and can`t sustain those margins, but nobody had the lead
with single women.
SCHULTZ: We need to stay right with women. As the Democratic Party
chair, I can assure you, I know we have to focus on outreach to women.
Between 2008 and 2012, those same women stayed home.
HAYES: All right, so here`s the most fascinating wrinkle in all this.
This is less on the politics and more on the personal. There`s a working
paper in "The New York Times." It`s not this study from Pew, but our
analysis shows gender identity considerations, mainly to women who seems
threatening to her husband because she earns more than he does, to engage
in a larger share of home production activities, particularly household
This is a working paper that looks at the actual data and finds women
earning more than their husband are also doing more in the home out of this
sort of compensatory desire to placate any wounded ego.
BANDELE: Wow, she can do well on the job and do well at home and be a
mom. I think all of the systems that we mentioned are real and in place,
but there`s also huge discrimination. Last week "The Washington Post"
reported that billionaire hedge fund manager, Paul Jones, felt that women,
once they become mothers, are less skilled at being microtraders.
This was a huge -- this wasn`t Archie Bunker, this was a billionaire
person who controls jobs and controls salaries. We`re up against these
policies. We`re also up against these ideals. That`s why we produce more
when we get home.
HAYES: Interesting to think the ideals as this privatized thing you
put over yourself in the situation you find yourself, not, you know,
regardless of policy.
TRAISTER: This has been playing out for generations since the second
wave in the 1970s. An incredible book called "The Second Shift" about
this, about women moving into the workforce in these huge numbers and still
the expectations, the norm being they are responsible for all the domestic
work and that norm is only changing now and incremental ways.
SCHULTZ: Socialized boys differently. We have to make sure we raise
our boys to believe like my husband does in equal parenting and equal
sharing of responsibilities in the household.
HAYES: DNC chairman, socialize boys. Author and journalist Rebecca
Traister, Congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Monifa Bandele of
momsrising.org, thank you all. That`s All In for this evening. "THE RACHEL
MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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