updated 6/17/2013 11:04:15 AM ET 2013-06-17T15:04:15

THE ED SHOW
June 16, 2013
Guests: Raul Grijalva, Loretta Sanchez, Thom Hartmann, Adam Green, Lizz
Winstead, Zerlina Maxwell


ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening Americans. Welcome to THE ED SHOW live in
Minneapolis.

Holy smokes, it`s 5:00 Eastern Time. Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: We will never again have a
Republican president, ever, if amnesty goes into effect.

GLENN BECK, TALK RADIO PERSONALITY: We have been looking for heroes for a
very long time.

BACHMANN: It may sound melodramatic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

BECK: We told these people in Washington it rise up, we cannot abandon the
gang of 70 or they will be slaughtered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember, there is no "I" in Team America.

SCHULTZ: I think the conservative movement in this country does not want
immigration reform.

BECK: We will tell you the good guys and tell you the bad guys.

SCHULTZ: Takes his head-shaking crowd with them.

(MUSIC)

BECK: I will stand right along side of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, if you`re not interested, there`s the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, thanks.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

If you think that immigration reform is a slam dunk and there`s going to be
some great deal, I got to bust your bubble tonight. I don`t think it`s
going to happen.

Members of the Tea Party and right wing noise machine are about to embark
on a crusade to kill the bipartisan gang of eight`s immigration reform
bill. What we are going to see here is the same hate merchant activity and
offensive we witnessed over the debate over Obamacare.

This week, outgoing Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of Minnesota went on FOX
News`s exiled talent Glenn Beck`s program to beg his audience to engage in
what is a revolt against their own party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: And we`re inviting the people, inviting all of the people to
come next Wednesday to this Lincoln-Douglass style debate on amnesty
because it is important that we have it. And don`t forget, when John
McCain put this bill forward in 2007, the American people pushed that back
really hard, so hard the bill failed. The phone lines melted in Capitol
Hill.

And a lot of your viewers don`t even know we are in the middle of that
fight right now. And we`re losing badly. Why? Because members of
Congress don`t even know the fight is going on.

We need your viewers to melt the phone lines and say, don`t vote for any
immigration bill until the border is secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`ll tell you what, this is a heck of a sales pitch. You have to
give her credit. But it is not just Michele Bachmann. This is a converted
effort across the board. We`re talking about 450 right wing talk show host
in America who will all be on the same page saying, we got block this. It
is amnesty. It`s wrong.

A coalition of 150 conservatives launched a campaign against reform,
releasing a letter urging the senate to scrap the bill, start over from
scratch. And of course the letter was signed by members of the Tea Party
organizations and conservative leaders. Now, when you say conservative
leaders and you think about that, we are talking about the Michelle Malkins
of the world, the Erick Erickson`s, the Monica Crowleys and Allen Wests,
not exactly a group that I would follow into the dark.

But the point here is that do not underestimate their potential impact on
the sweeping legislation which the countries needs, because I believe that
we`re going to see an anti-immigration reform effort parallel to what we
saw on Obamacare. These conservatives are going to pull out all the stops
that say whatever they have to say, call whoever they have to call. Get
all hands on deck to thwart this immigration reform.

They`re not going to allow Obamacare and immigration reform to come through
with an eight-year period with this guy. We have seen what the Tea Party
base is capable of. They could disrupt a lot of stuff.

Now when Michele Bachmann sat down with anti-Obama conspiracy blog, World
Net Daily, she explained all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: We`re going to have amnesty, perpetual amnesty for illegal
immigration and the whole political system will change. Why? There is
President Obama`s number one political agenda item. Because he knows we
will never again have a Republican president, ever, if amnesty goes into
effect. We will perpetually have a progressive liberal president, probably
a Democrat, and probably see the House of Representatives good into
Democrat hand and the Senate will stay in Democrat hand.

So you will have a permanent liberal progressive Democrat class and you
will never again be able to see our country return to its constitutional
foundations. That`s what`s at risk right now. It may sound melodramatic.
I don`t mean it that way. This is that big and that important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Wow.

I mean, she is saying that if immigration reform goes through, we`re never
going to have any Republicans in power again because this will just be a
big give ay to Democrats and the progressive movement. It`s that simple in
their mind.

But you know what that is? That sound bite is an admission. It is an
admission that Republican opponents, they know that they are vulnerable.
They have nothing on the table for wage earners in this country.

They want to stop reform because of the long-term political implications
for the Republican Party. They have no plan for workers so why in the hill
would they let 11 million undocumented workers be Americans? In order to
get head shakers, what they have to do what Bachmann is doing there. They
have to present this as threat to the country, a threat to jobs. a threat
to security.

I know you think Glenn Beck and Michele Bachmann, they`re off the rails
politically and they`re out there and they`re not in the mainstream.

But they do have followers. And I think that they do have enough that
would make a difference that would disrupt this legislation. Just listen
to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: I spoke about it pretty harsh on radio today and the leadership of
the GOP were on the phones with my producers trying to get on immediately
and trying to say wait this is not -- so the leadership of the GOP must
have either been listening or receiving phone calls immediately. So we
have a very active audience and -- I hope. I hope we have your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come to town on Wednesday. We`ve got a slot for you at
the press conference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The leadership of the Republican Party is calling the producers
of Glenn Beck. Saying we`ve got to get on the air to keep this whole thing
together. Really?

Folks, I said on this broadcast last night, that Republicans in their
heart, they don`t want immigration reform. They are addicted, they have
been addicted for years, to cheap labor. They do not want to have 11
million undocumented workers have a ray hope of some day being an American
citizen where they would potentially go join a union. They`re trying to
kill unions. They don`t want wage earners to have any power.

So, this is all about destroying immigration reform. This is all about
another loss for President Obama. That`s what they want to do. This would
be viewed in the long-term political history as nothing but a big victory
for the progressive movement and a bunch of tag-alongs for the Republicans
who have never led on anything in this nature.

Now, one thing the Tea Party does have on its side and that`s history. A
lot of things have changed since 2007. But immigration reform has been
defeated before. They do have success on their side when it comes to
history.

And I do think that the Republicans in their heart really don`t want to do
this. They are doing this. Because they feel like they have to because of
the math of the last election. They know that we are a changing country.

And before they offer up any plan for any worker or wage earner in this
country, the first thing they`re going to do is just try to figure out, how
the hell could we win the next election? We don`t care about the people.
We just want the power.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question, is John Boehner powerful enough to stop the Tea Party
from blocking immigration reform? Text A for yes, text B for no, to 67622.
You can always go to our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com, and leave a comment there.
We always love to hear from you.

Joining me tonight, congressman from Arizona, Raul Grijalva, and
congresswoman from California, Loretta Sanchez.

Great to have both of you with us tonight.

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you?

SCHULTZ: Congressman Grijalva, I want to ask you, does the Tea Party have
the chops to mount the charge to thwart immigration reform in this country?

REP. RAUL GRIJALVA (D), ARIZONA: I think that they had the chops. They
don`t have the same level of ability like they did in past, but they`re
formidable, as you said, you have to take seriously, because these three
people that you said on the screen is an effort and very dangerous effort
by the way in that they are skirting, a lot of issues and not dealing with
the fundamental really that we have 11 million people, that we have a plan
in the Senate that while not far from perfect, far from perfect, is the
beginning to normalizing lives for 11 million people in this country.

Their resistance is not only political, I think it goes to whole other
areas. And I suspect that as this debate gets uglier, that issues of race,
issues of language, issues of heritage, will become more and more part of
the dialogue. And that is dangerous for America. It`s dangerous for
divisions we already have and the three people that you mentioned are doing
this country not only disservice but are playing a very, very dangerous
game with our society.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Sanchez, what do you think the point of the Tea
Party is here? To slow down the progressive movement, to keep cheap labor
in America, what is their motivation?

SANCHEZ: I don`t know, I think their motivation is they just don`t want
any more immigrants in. I -- you know, they say they want legal immigrants
but the issue is that under the current legal system, we let not very many
in. In fact we don`t bring in enough people to really make the America
that we need to keep the economy going et cetera.

And so if they really care about America, they understand in the future,
we`ll need more workers. Currently, we have workers that don`t have
documents. And when you`re undocumented, you`re taking advantage of on a
whole bunch of fronts. And by doing that, bad employers -- you know, most
employers have good employees.

But bad employers use these people, pay them less, they don`t have
benefits, if they get work, they are trashed and out they go. And what`s
happening to the American worker that they also see wages depressed these
bad employers are using these people.

So, if we would legalize these people, if they would get at least the
minimum wage, if they would have basic rights in the country, we would see
all of America rise.

SCHULTZ: Glenn Beck compared this conservative right to the civil rights
movement. Congressman Grijalva, what is your response to that?

GRIJALVA: That is -- not only -- it is almost heresy for him to make that
comparison. In fact, it is.

The civil rights movement is about fulfilling people`s rights. Civil
rights movement was to make the values of the nation real for all-
Americans, regardless and comprehensive reform is about extending values to
11 million people that are here, that are working, and that`s the reality,
and to immigrate them into this great society of ours. Simple as that.

But to by a car the fight against emigration reform to the civil rights
movement is heresy and a disservice to the sacrifices many, many made to
assure that all rights were available for all Americans.

SCHULTZ: The question now, is -- it is shameful. But now, is Speaker
Boehner going to be able to hold his caucus together and get something done
on this? That, of course, is a big question. I just don`t have confidence
that there is legislation coming forth from the conservatives in the House
that is going to give confidence to 11 million undocumented workers to step
forward, come out of the shadows and be part of America the way they want
to be.

Take for instance, Congressman Steve King compete tweeted 20 brazen self
professed illegal aliens invaded his D.C. office. King asked Senators
Schumer and McCain, both members of the gang of eight, to come guard his
door.

Congresswoman, what does this kind of rhetoric do for the Republican Party?

SANCHEZ: Yes, I mean, that`s just ridiculous. These are mostly young
people who are coming. You know, he was afraid when the dreamers came to
his door.

We certainly see that some of the Tea Parties and others are within the
Republican conference to the most extent, especially in the House, are
certainly afraid to do this, are looking at any potential poison pill, any
way to derail this. They will make a nasty fight of it.

Certainly, we see Chairman Goodlatte of the Judiciary Committee where a
good portion of the bill will come through his committee wanting it slice
and dice it and put it up piece by piece where the reality is that, you
know, my colleague for example, Raul -- I mean, he is not going to like
everything in the bill. And I`m not going to like everything in the bill.

But we`re going to have to like enough of it and say this is important
enough for America it take this step that we will vote for it. So we
really node to keep it in a comprehensive way and that`s one of the ways in
which they are trying to undo it.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Grijalva, what if it fails? What does that say about
America?

GRIJALVA: If it fails and all of the expectations and the hopes are that
it doesn`t. If it fails, I think it will tear at our social fabric. It
will say that the values of this nation have been changed. And it`ll say
to many, many people, not only the 11 million people that are here, that
America is no longer the welcoming nation -- the nation of opportunity, the
nation where you can make a new and better life.

And I think the sadness will be that it will be a pale on this nation if it
fails. And the leadership is in the hands of Boehner in the house. Not
only to control, but to have the moral imperative to allow votes to be
taken to move this agenda forward. Otherwise, it`ll be sabotaged in the
house as efforts in the Senate are under way to sabotage.

SCHULTZ: You`re going to hear workers vilified on right wing radio.
You`re going to hear the word amnesty about every 30 seconds.

Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez and Congressman Raul Grijalva -- great to
have you with us on THE ED SHOW. I appreciate your time.

GRIJALVA: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Happy Father`s Day, Congressman. Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s questionnaire. Share your thoughts with us on
Twitter @EdShow and on Facebook. You can follow me on Twitter @WeGotEd and
also @EdShow. We always want to know what you think.

Coming up, the war on men this Father`s Day. We`ll talk about the
Republican policies which are hurting dads the most.

But first, shooter takes aim at the president`s credibility. You won`t
believe what he said this morning on FOX.

We`ll challenge Cheney`s claims we come back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW, from Minneapolis tonight. Thanks
for watching.

This NSA story, you know what it`s doing? All it`s doing is giving the
Republicans the chance to do what they do best, trash the president for no
reason.

This morning, Dick Cheney back at it, had the nerve to bring up the issue
of credibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: In terms of credibility, I don`t think
he has credibility. I think one of the biggest problems we have is, we`ve
got is an important point where the president of the United States ought to
be able to stand up and say, this is a righteous program. It`s a good
program, but saving American lives and I support it.

And the problem is, the guy has failed to be forthright and honest and
credible on things like Benghazi and the IRS. So he`s got no credibility.

SCHULTZ: Forthright, honest, credible, come on, Dickster!

I mean, some of us don`t forget in America, I`m personally still waiting
for Iraqi oil to pay all the bills.

Dick Cheney is the man who took us into war on Iraq with false pretense.
Dick Cheney is the man who was vice president when we were hit on 9/11.
Apparently, he didn`t get the presidential daily briefing of August 6,
2001.

And Dick Cheney has the nerve to get out there and say we have no
credibility? He is picking the Democrats as much as he is the president.

Look, this guy never got close to killing Osama bin Laden. And the fact is
that and now Dick Cheney has the nerve to go on national television and say
President Obama has no credibility? It`s almost as outrageous as shooting
someone in the face and getting away with it.

President Obama has done more to dismantle al Qaeda in one term than Bush
and Cheney did in two terms. He killed Osama bin Laden and has taken a
number of other ranking al Qaeda members.

And even in the midst of NSA data collection outrage, President Obama is
doing just fine. Apparently, America has no problem with it. His approval
rating hasn`t taken a hit, even during the so-called scandals. Americans
trust this president. This is a man who has provided healthcare for 30
million uninsured people. He saved the American automobile industry,
created 6.9 million private sector jobs.

I mean, who do you want to be believe in the backdrop, the backdrop of this
entire conversation that they can present to this country is that President
Obama is just a damn crook and whatever we throw up there you ought to
believe. Whether it`s the IRS, or Benghazi, no matter how many hearings we
have or "A.P." story or NSA. By the way, we are spying on everybody!

I find it hard to believe that Dick Cheney would pin his credibility on a
disgruntled employee who wants to be a hero and ends up in China. Martin
Luther King, Jr. didn`t go to China. And neither did a lot of other heroes
who wanted to see change in this country. They faced the music.

And for more on this, I want to go to two of my friends who are very
liberal and we may disagree on this.

Radio talk show host Thom Hartmann and also with us is Adam Green, co-
founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

Gentlemen, great to have you with us.

Thom, you first. Seventy percent of our intelligence budget is handed out
to private contractors. Is this dangerous? Should it be changed? Should
we review this?

Your thoughts, Thom.

THOM HARTMANN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you. By the way, happy
Father`s Day. It`s great to see you again.

SCHULTZ: And to you, my friend.

HARTMANN: Thank you.

Yes, I think this is a major problem. I mean, this is something that
started in large part with the whole Reagan administration idea that
government isn`t solution to our problems. Government is the problem.
Therefore, let`s turn things over to private corporations.

When the government is doing spying, which we want government to do, and is
an entirely appropriate function, and other police functions, other state
functions, there are systems for oversight of that that are relatively
transparent, and least within government, between different branches of
government, legislative and judicial.

Once that gets outsourced to private for-profit corporations, first of all,
you layoff a bunch of government employees, probably tens of thousands or
more who are also union members in many cases. Secondly, you got CEOs
skimming money off the top. But third and most important, under the
Freedom Information Act and other transparency requirements these don`t
apply to private contractors. So, I think we`ve got a problem, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I think it is a question of loyalty. Is there loyalty
undoubtedly to the country or to profit and who they are working for? And
do they take their job as seriously as someone who may be in uniform or
trained by the government? I think these are fair questions. I talked to
lawmakers this week that are very disturbed by this percentage.

This morning, White House chief of staff Denis McDonough highlighted the
changes President Obama has made on the NSA program. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENIS MCDONOUGH, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The debate in 2004 and 2005
was about program that had no congressional involvement, did have no
congressional oversight and no checks and balances that we have today.
When President Obama came into office in 2009, after being elected in 2008,
he was pretty skeptical about the importance of this program.

So, he took a hard look at them. As result we changed many things about
how we over see those programs. Congress is now much more robustly
involved in these programs. You`ll hear that from your next guest. Not
just the intelligence committees but the judicial committees and every
member of Congress has been given a classified white paper to review it
take a look at these.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Adam Green, do you buy what chief of staff of the White House
says?

ADAM GREEN, PROGRESSIVE CHANGE CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE: What he said is that
congress is informed. But that -- that ignores the paint point of what
Edward Snowden did, which is reveal a crime by the NSA of lying to
Congress. It doesn`t help to have an informed Congress if that information
is a lie.

Ron Wyden, who has been on this show, and I assume you respect a lot, asked
the director of national intelligence, does the NSA collect data on
millions or hundreds of millions of Americans. The answer, quote, "No,
Sir". Wyden followed up, and he said no again.

That`s a problem. The duly representative of the American people, who we
need to have oversight over basically a secret operation that`s apparently
spying on millions of us, they`re being lied to and not being told the full
information they need and that`s the problem.

So, you`re absolutely right that Dick Cheney is the completely flawed
person to be making any kind of critique about lying to the American
people. But it is a real issue that the NSA --

(CROSSTALK)

GREEN: It`s a real issue.

SCHULTZ: But the chief of staff says it is not the same techniques and
program that was in place back in 2006 when the Cheney people were doing
it, that the President Obama has brought in checks and balances in his
administration and congressional oversight that was not there before.

Now I have to respectfully challenge you. Are you willing to take
Snowden`s word over someone who`s in the program? I mean, I think that`s
where we are right now as a country. Who do we believe? Do we believe a
guy that goes to China or do we believe someone who is actually involved in
the program or the president of the United States because that`s where the
buck stops. Your thoughts?

GREEN: A couple point here. So one, I don`t think you criticized the
Wisconsin 14 when they left the state and used every tool to their disposal
to make sure the public got a full public debate and issues were probably
thrust into the public debate. If they hadn`t left the state there would
have no debate about Scott Walker`s lead budget.

This man had courage --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: Wait, wait. Adam, we are not talking about the Wisconsin 14.
There`s no parallel here.

This is an issue of national security. This is an issue of state secrets.
This is an issue of -- are we going to believe a rogue employee or are we
going to believe the president of the United States who is chief of staff
said this morning that they have put implemented processes of oversight
which was backed up today by Mike Rogers, who is intelligence chair, in the
House. He says it is about phone numbers. Not about the personal
information that this guy is claiming it to be.

GREEN: All I`m saying is there is nothing inherently wrong with traveling
to force a public debate. Nothing is wrong with that.

The broader point of who do we trust, the Obama administration has
corroborated the main thing that Edward Snowden has said, which is that
government does collect data on millions or hundreds of millions of people
in contrast to what the NSA had previously told Congress.

That`s the core of the entire thing. We can argue around the edges but we
now know the NSA lied to congress, lied to our duly American -- duly
elected officials and that`s real problem and finally we have a debate. As
Elizabeth said --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: OK, Thom Hartmann, how do you read this?

HARTMANN: I have two thoughts on it, Ed. First all, I don`t think that
the major scandal of Watergate was Deep Throat. And I don`t think that
major scandal looking back on the Vietnam War was Daniel Ellsberg, although
at the time, they were characterized at some point as that way.

I think at some point in the future, we`re going to look back and say,
Snowden, who apparently committed a criminal act at least has forced a
really important conversation here, A. B, the other thing that`s important
to remember is that up until 2001, we had court that actually, I mean, the
foreign intelligence courts, they were secret courts, but at least part of
judiciary system that oversaw government snooping. Bush and Cheney stopped
that and they stopped it illegally. Obama put that back into place.

Now I would say it is the protections are nowhere as strong as they should
be and those courts should be approved. But yes, you just -- having Dick
Cheney criticize Barack Obama is insane.

SCHULTZ: There is no question about that. Gentlemen, we`re out of time.
I always appreciate having you on the program.

Adam Green, Thom Hartmann, thank you for being here tonight.

Coming up, another conservative joins the war on women. Republican Trent
Franks makes a stunning allegation against the Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TRENT FRANKS (R), ARIZONA: It`s Democrats that keep forcing the rape
issue into this debate. They have done it ever since Roe versus Wade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That`s next. But, first, I`m taking your questions. "Ask Ed
Live", just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

We love hearing from our viewers. Tonight, in our "Ask Ed Live" segment,
first question comes from Luke Cooper, "Why is anything Sarah Palin says
considered news?"

Well, Luke, I`m not quite sure it`s news but it is something that some
people do pay attention to, enough where FOX News thinks that they can
create a market around her. And get viewers and that`s exactly why she`s
hired. I certainly wouldn`t put her in the arena as someone who makes news
of relevance.

Our next question comes from Diane Hoganson Hineman (ph). "What was your
greatest Father`s Day gift?" My son, Dave, gave me a card two years ago
and it was -- it was the nicest thing that was ever given to me on Father`s
Day. Dave gave me a card explaining, in this card, why he thinks I`m a
great dad. And I have a business brief case I carry with me and to this
day, I still have that card in my brief case.

And I`ve tried to be a good dad and role model. We all have our fallings.
But my son thinks I`m pretty cool, and he`s put it into words in a card
that I just didn`t ever want it lose. And that`s just about the best gift
my son`s ever given me.

Stick around. The real talk panel is next. We`ll right back on THE ED
SHOW.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back. It`s the question no one can answer.

When are Republicans going to stop talking about rape? Republicans in
Congress set aside their cooked up scandals this weekend to continue their
war on women.

Arizona Congressman Trent Franks is trying to pass the buck on his comment
about rape and pregnancy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKS: The reality is, it is not Republicans talking about this. It is
Democrats that keep forcing the rape issue into this debate. They have
done it ever since Roe versus Wade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Franks joined the likes of Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock with
his comment, made during a judiciary committee hearing, on his law, on his
bill to outlaw abortions after 20 weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKS: Before when my friends on the left side of the aisle here try to
make rape and incest the subject because you know, the incidents of rape
resulting in pregnancy are very low.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The congressman says his comment was taken out of context. But
it was enough for Republicans to replace him as the bill`s debate manager
in the House. For more on this, I`m joined tonight by author Lizz
Winstead, "The Grio" contributor Zerlina Maxwell and Joan Walsh from
Salon.com.

Great to have you all with us. I appreciate it so much.

I don`t know, maybe they`re not trainable, Liz. What do you think? Maybe
this is just the way it is. Your thoughts on this.

LIZZ WINSTEAD, AUTHOR : Well, the facts they don`t see how incredibly sad
and pathetic it is, that women, every time they have to propose some kind
of anti-choice legislation, that we have to remind them of the seriousness
of a woman being raped or incest being involved. You keep conveniently
forgetting and are so out of touch with what women go through that we have
to keep reminding you.

When is that going to end as well?

SCHULTZ: Zerlina, when are they going to learn their lesson that maybe
this isn`t a good subject for conservatives? That they just can`t -- they
can`t word it properly because they are disjointed on the issue.

ZERLINA MAXWELL, THEGRIO.COM: Well, maybe they are disjointed on the
issue, but the fact of the matter is, is that rape and incest is part of
the conversation about choice legislation. So, if you are banning all
abortions then the logical follow-up is, what about women who are raped.
And every woman who is raped has it think about the risk of pregnancy.
That is just a fact. That is the reality. So, the fact that can`t talk
about it means they are not toward deal with the real issues that we`re
facing.

SCHULTZ: Joan, is this going to follow them all the way into the mid
terms? How do you see the Republican Party fixing this? Or the
conservative movement for that matter and the way they view women? They
constantly certainly don`t want to help out with equal pay in the
workplace. They are against any aggressive movement that would make the
lives of women better in this country.

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: Well, right, this is going to dog them in midterms
for sure, Ed, because this is their policy. These are the thing they
believe -- the notion that these are victims and we are the ones forcing
rape talk on them. Oh, politically raping them, I guess, you know, is so
absurd because they leave it out of their equation because they don`t care.
This is their policy. They don`t want any exceptions to ban an abortion
even in cases of rape or to often save the life of the mother. It is a
situation where their policy keeps being exposed and that is what
controversy is.

WINSTEAD: And if I can just add, their entire policy around this issue is
based on such inconvenient truths -- truths that -- take the rape out of
the equation. People have same. Birth control fails.

Most abortions are by women who have a kid already and are making economic
decisions.

And they just forget all that as though we live in some weird world where
there`s abstinence and unicorns and everybody has got a lot of money and
happiness and can make it all work, man.

MAXWELL: Let`s cut money and contraception because that`s going to work
out well. That`s never a good plan. Yes.

SCHULTZ: And there`s more on the war on women, to the state of Texas.
This week, Rick Perry vetoed a bill to prevent wage discrimination. The
bill would have brought Texas law in line with the Lilly Ledbetter Act
passed by President Obama and Congress in 2009.

Joan, what is Rick Perry trying to prove here?

WALSH: That he is a throwback and he cares more about the rights of
business than he does about the rights of women. I mean, this law is
necessary. It made it possible to use state courts and not always have to
go the federal bench for recourse.

It`s a popular piece of legislation. It`s passing in most other states but
Rick Perry is delusional. Still thinks he could possibly run for president
again or be president some day, and he thinks this is what business wants
and therefore it doesn`t matter what women want.

Business comes before women in their political calculus.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: And on this -- go ahead.

WINSTEAD: I was going to say and Rick Perry is never -- you know, he cuts
child care, eh cut the CHIPS program, he is not going to be part of the
exchange program. When he talks about federal legislation it`s already on
the books, he hasn`t been helpful to women in any way shape or form.

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: On this Father`s Day, here is a story that caught our attention.
And Laurie Schrage is a professor at Florida International University. She
wrote into "The New York Times".

Is forced fatherhood fair?

She says while the women`s movement has made motherhood voluntary, men who
accidentally impregnate a woman have few options.

Joan, your response to this. Is she suggestion that men be allowed to
advocate their responsibility of fatherhood?

WALSH: I think she is suggesting that. I think she is saying that men who
have sex and decide they don`t want to take responsibility for whatever the
outcome is should not have to. And I think, again, it is a little bit of a
throw back. There`s a little bit -- we are focusing on the rights of men.

Let`s be concerned about the rights of men when we still haven`t secured
rights for women.

WINSTEAD: I would like to know how many women have doesn`t have
accidentally had sex with them. And accidentally forgot to wear a condom.
You know, something that is not said often enough, is that -- when men do
not use a condom and do not say to the women, I won`t have sex with you
without a condom, they are saying the birth control I choose is abortion.
Men who do not use condoms are saying I will have abortion and I`m talking
about intending to make a baby when I have sex with you, and I think that`s
something to talk about.

SCHULTZ: All right. Lizz, Zerlina, Joan, stick, we`ve got more to talk
about on another topic coming up.

Tonight in a survey I asked you, is John Boehner powerful enough to stop
the Tea Party from blocking immigration reform? Seven percent of you say
yes, 93 percent of you say no.

Coming up, the GOP crazy machine just cranked out a Michele Bachmann clone.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

SCHULTZ: Jim Brighton`s scene comes to life in our pretender scene next.
Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And our pretender tonight, a new Michele Bachmann clone.
Freshman Congressman Jim Bridenstine of Oklahoma. Tea Party ring leader
Michele Bachmann may be on her way out but she`s passed her torch it a
blind ignorance to Congressman Bridenstine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM BRIDENSTINE (R), OKLAHOMA: The president`s dishonesty,
incompetence tense, vengefulness and lack of moral compass, lead many to
suggest that he is not fit to lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: This baseless disrespect for the president was only the beginning
for Bridenstine. Just weeks after a tornado ravaged of Moore, Oklahoma in
his state, the congressman wants to defund climate and environmental
research?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIDENSTINE: This president spends 30 times as much money on global
warming research as he does on weather forecasting and warnings. For this
gross misallocation, the people of Oklahoma are ready to accept his
president`s apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: He wants the president to say he`s sorry for studies designed to
better understand the environment. Sorry for researching the root of the
natural disaster. Sorry for representative measures and a desire to keep
citizens safe?

Yes, I would say an apology is in order, but from the congressman. If
Bridenstine thinks he deserves an apology from the president, he can just
keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Obviously, this is a great
way for us to celebrate Father`s Day and just to remind ourselves those of
us who are fathers how lucky we are. It`s the best job I`ve got. And I
know that all the fathers here feel the same way, and the idea that we
might get afternoon ice cream is always good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

This is a story for the folks who take a shower after work. President
Obama says fatherhood is one of the best jobs in the world. But dads are
having a rough time the regular job market lately. Unemployment is up
among men while the jobless rate is dropping for women. Traditionally
male-dominated industries like manufacturing and construction have suffered
more than any others since the recession began.

Big companies shipping jobs overseas, closing factories and of course
leaving men struggling to make ends meet in this country. The same
companies can`t offshore the jobs dominated by women, careers in health
care, temporary office work, restaurants in the service industry, retail
have added more than a million jobs since January.

Meanwhile, the male dominated manufacturing industry has lost jobs over the
past two months.

Let`s bring back our real talk panel, Lizz Winstead, Zerlina Maxwell, and
Joan Walsh.

You women are absolutely taking over the world. I absolutely surrender.

(LAUGHTER)

WALSH: We are, Ed.

MAXWELL: We are taking over.

WINSTEAD: I love that all the women in that graphic were hot. Like all
these hot women are working.

WALSH: Well, I think one of the things is that we`ve seen the decline of
unions, and that`s really a huge factor in the decline of male wages. It
is tough for men. It`s tough for men without a college degree.

The other thing, though, is I think we need to encourage men to think about
so-called women`s work. Our gendered ideas of men`s and women`s work are
now -- they`ve always worked against women. Now they`re working against
men.

MAXWELL: Right.

WINSTEAD: It`s so interesting. When my father passed away a couple of
years ago, and when he was in hospice care, he wished that he had a man as
a nurse and an attendant. And so, I could not encourage more that men
should go into these fields that are also traditionally constantly fighting
for an equal wage that services what is good. These traditional jobs,
teaching, nurses, have always never been paid to what they`re actually --
how hard it is to do them. That needs to go up as well to encourage
everybody to be able to do them.

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: Here is a reminder from the last time you professionals were on
this program, THE ED SHOW. Republicans like Erick Erickson support bad
economic policies, but they freak out when they see the results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERICKSON: Having moms as the primary breadwinner is bad for kids and bad
for marriage. And reality shows us that`s the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Where is the Republican outrage about putting dads back to work?

MAXWELL: Yes, really.

But also too, one of the things we need to be talking about is equal pay is
a part of this conversation. So, when women are in the workforce and
supporting 40 percent of American families because they`re getting paid
less, it`s impacting the kids. So we need to get the men back to work in
jobs that they can sustain their families. And the women already working
need to get paid the same as the men doing the work.

WINSTEAD: When you look at the statistics of the things break
relationships apart.

MAXWELL: Right. Money.

WINSTEAD: Finance, finance, finance.

WALSH: And yet men are being blamed. Charles Murray wrote a whole book
about white men saying about white people what he used to only say about
white people. But the white lower class men are lazier. They don`t want
to get married. They`re not supporting their kids, and making it all about
moral failings rather than an economy that doesn`t have as much use for
white men without a college degree.

MAXWELL: It`s structural. It`s not on an individual basis. The
structures are in place not allowing men to get jobs where they can sustain
their families.

WINSTEAD: And also, the broader picture is a warning.

SCHULTZ: All of you would make the case that this economic recovery that
we`re having is really favoring women, although we have a pay inequity
issue that needs to be addressed in this country. That`s what I`m hearing.

WALSH: It is. But wages aren`t rising fast enough for anybody. Labor,
male or female, is not sharing in the gains of this alleged recovery.

WINSTEAD: Let`s not forget, we are actually rewarding corporations with
tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas still, and that`s got to like stop.

MAXWELL: Yes.

SCHULTZ: What about student loan rates? I mean, coming up the first part
of August, we`re going to see the interest rate go to an astronomical of
over 6 percent when banks, of course, get it for half a percent from the
Fed. There is a terrible inequity there.

Are we going to see a resurgence in the trades, or are we going to see more
and more trade school type opportunities for young people? Where are young
people going?

Zerlina, you`re just out with a law degree. What do you see happening?

MAXWELL: Well, I certainly think that yes, there`s going to be a
resurgence of trades because we have to have that happen.

And one of the reasons why women are in the workforce in the numbers they
are is because they`re going to college, they`re going to law school,
they`re going to medical school and getting masters degrees and things of
that nature.

So, they`re the ones going to get the higher educations. But then they`re
getting all of this debt, and now if interest rates are going up, they`re
going to be saddled with all of this debt for years and years and years.
And, you know, in the future, having to support families with a thousand
dollars month student loan payment. It`s going to hold all families back.

WALSH: We need to support trade schools. We need to support community
colleges. But we also need to start paying for people -- well, for
people`s college education. We need to make that a value like it was a
value. I feel like some of us are the last generation that this country
kept its promises to.

We got low -- low tuition, public education through -- you got your B.A.
That was expected. That`s not the case anymore.

WINSTEAD: Yes. And you also have to -- I`m sorry, go ahead,

SCHULTZ: Joan Walsh, Zerlina Maxwell, Lizz Winstead, great to have you
with us. I appreciate it.

WALSH: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Liz, I think you can relate to this. This is probably the first
Father`s Day in decades where I haven`t caught a fish. But that`s OK.

WALSH: Aww.

(CROSSTALK)

WINSTEAD: -- fishing to me, it`s a bone of contention.

SCHULTZ: That`s THE ED SHOW. Happy Father`s Day to all of you. Back next
week.


END


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