updated 6/24/2013 11:27:15 AM ET 2013-06-24T15:27:15

THE ED SHOW
June 23, 2013
Guests: Annette Taddeo, Tom Perriello, James Carville, Ben Cohen

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED SHOW,
live from New York.

After being charged with espionage, NSA leaker is on the run, kind of like
a white bronco kind of thing going on.

Republicans want to go to the moon. I think we should help them.

And Senator Lindsey Graham claims the gang of eight will be able to pass
the immigration reform. Who is he`s talking about, the Senate or the
House? I`ve got a contention with that.

This is THE ED SHOW. Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We`ve got these problems
that need resolved and I`m committed to getting them resolved.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Amnesty could cost something more
than just money. It could cost a nation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t come in to be a taker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will be bad for wages. It`ll be bad for
unemployment.

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is a bunch of
malarkey. That`s a Spanish word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand the words that are coming out of my
mouth?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speaker Boehner is not running Republican conferences,
he is one step ahead of the mob.

BOEHNER: This is a very difficult issue.

SCHULTZ: Some of these Republicans got together right away and said, OK,
here is our strategy. No to everything.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: No way, Jose.

BOEHNER: I don`t see any way of bringing an immigration bill to the floor
that doesn`t have the majority support of Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`ll be dangerous. You go first.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: If it fails and we are blamed for
its failure, our party is in trouble.

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: The Republican Party has a lot to lose here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Hello. Anybody home?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tell them that the time for
excuses is over.

REPORTER: If you bring immigration reform to the floor without the support
of the GOP conference, you will lose you job. Do you think that`s
accurate?

BOEHNER: Maybe.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

Take a very good look, close look at this man. You know who he is, Speaker
Boehner. What about the resume?

This is man who did everything in his power to stop healthcare reform in
America. This man promised to repeal healthcare and take coverage away
from 30 million to 40 million Americans. This man killed legislation which
would have created millions of jobs in America.

He couldn`t even get a farm bill passed this past week. A farm bill? I
mean, w e can`t even do that? America?

So here is my question. Do you really trust this man to get comprehensive
immigration reform done in America under Obama?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: We know that border security is absolutely essential. That if
we`re going to give people confidence to do the rest of what is being
suggested, and I frankly think the Senate bill is weak, on border security,
I think the internal enforcement mechanisms are weak and triggers are
almost laughable.

And so, if they are serious about getting an immigration bill finished, I
think that the president sent Democrats reach out to their Democrat --
Republican colleagues, to build broad bipartisan support for the bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: In other words, we`re not going to pass it. But the real story
isn`t about border security. That`s the red herring. They`re never going
to be happy with border security.

The real story isn`t about what some senator says on the floor and just how
passionate he or she gets.

You know what is lost in this conversation? The very people that this
legislation is going to affect, the undocumented workers and their
families. Anybody else ask them what the heck is going on? No one is
talking about their lives, their circumstances or their concerns.

Basically, they are being treated like furniture, moved around, political
poker chips, being negotiated with at the point of this debate, this is
really what we have to talk about.

What about them? What about the people it`s going to affect? Let`s see
what a member of the gang of eight thinks.

Senator Lindsey Graham, you have the floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: Let`s look at it this way. Give the Republicans all of the border
security you want and all of the legal immigration you want and trust
Republicans to deal fairly with 11 million, that`s not going to sell to a
Democrat. And I sure as held am not going to accept an agreement where
they get legalization on a pathway to citizenship, then they give me border
security, then they give me legal immigration reform. You have to do it
together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Graham also went to say the gang of eight is on the verge of
getting 70 votes. That may be true. But I don`t think it`ll have an
affect on how the House operates.

You know, I don`t disagree with Lindsey Graham, but all of this border
security is not but a real handout to Halliburton and private contractors,
what is it? It`s overkill.

The keyword here is trust. Do you trust the Tea Partiers, the Republicans,
who have tried in the past to reverse things that have been passed already
by the American people via representative government? Yes, I think there
is a real parallel between trusting them on healthcare and trusting them on
immigration.

Now, put yourself in the position of an undocumented worker who has a
family. Do you really think that they are sitting there watching the news
and paying attention to this debate and this country? Feeling real
confidence about Washington? Feeling real confident that what they pass is
never going to be reversed.

That all you have to have is the Republicans say, hey, let`s pass a bill.
Come on out wherever you are. Identify yourself. We`ll take care of you.
Do you trust that?

I don`t think undocumented workers do. I think we are totally missing the
point. We`re not talking to the people who it is going to affect. We`re
not into the lives of the families that are going to be torn apart if by
some chance they were to raise their hand and say, I`m an undocumented
worker and I want to be an American and then rely on the Republicans to
never reverse the legislation.

Do you want to put your family at risk? Do you want to put your family on
the line?

Do you trust the Republicans? Can you trust the Republicans on taxes? Can
you trust the Republicans on workers rights? Can you trust the Republicans
on public education? Can you trust them on healthcare?

Hell no!

So why in the world would undocumented workers say, doggone it, I really
like those Republicans, they are going to do exactly what I want them to do
when it comes to me and my family.

Now, I realize the conservatives and I`ve add lot of calls on lefty talk
radio about this too. Oh, they are criminals and they broke the law. Hey,
wait a minute, we are part of this problem. We have allowed undocumented
workers to come into the country. We didn`t do what we are supposed to do.

You can`t fault somebody for trying to better themselves or their family.
Many of them are workers. Many of them are taxpayers. Many of them don`t
break the law. Many of them, most of them, in their heart, want to be
Americans.

But in this legislation, they don`t recognize that. I want the Republicans
-- OK, get your border security. I want the Republicans to stand up and
say, we guarantee that if you raise your hand, we will never turn on you
and we will never deport you. I want to hear that from the Republicans in
the Senate!

Nobody is saying it. Nobody in the Senate is saying, "We want you to be
Americans. We want you to step out. We want you to be a part of us. We
want you to be a part of our country. We want you to have security in your
heart that we`re not going to do to immigration reform what we`ve tried to
do to Obamacare 38 times."

It isn`t going to happen, folks. President Obama used in his weekly
address to try to settle reform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Now, the bill isn`t perfect. It`s a compromise. Nobody will get
everything they want. Not Democrats, not Republicans, not me. But it`s
consistent with the principles that I and others have laid out for common
sense reform. That`s why Republicans and Democrats, CEOs and labor
leaders, are saying that now is the time to pass this bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Common sense reform. That doesn`t mean anything to anybody in
the Tea Party.

Here is the other problem. The Tea Party is not going to allow that man,
President Obama, to put his signature on anything as big as immigration
reform. This is also about President Obama`s legacy. It`s the same reason
Republicans have been trying to get rid of Obamacare.

I mean, if you think the Tea Party is going to hand President Obama
landmark, a landmark piece of legislation, that will be a huge part of his
legacy, ain`t going to happen.

And if you don`t believe me, let me remind you about what outgoing Tea
Party Congresswoman Michele Bachmann said last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: We`re going to have amnesty, perpetual amnesty for illegal
immigration and the whole system will change. Why? This is President
Obama`s number one political agenda item, because he knows, we will never
again have a Republican president, ever if amnesty goes into effect. We
will perpetually have a progressive liberal president, probably Democrat,
and we will probably see the House of Representatives go into Democrat
hands and the Senate will stay in Democrat hands.

So, you will have a permanent liberal progressive Democrat class and you
will never again be able to see our country return to its constitutional
foundations. That`s what`s at risk right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: See, with the Republicans, they think it`s all about politics.
It`s not about families. It`s not about human beings. It`s not about
people who want to be Americans. It`s all about politics.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: Do Republicans care about the personal struggles of undocumented
immigrants?

Text A for yes, text B for no, to 67622. You can always go to our blog
Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show. Remind
you can follow me on Twitter @WeGotEd, and also @EdShow.

Joining me now is E.J. Dionne of "Washington Post"; Annette Taddeo, chair
of the Miami-Dade Democratic Party; and Thomas Perriello, president and CEO
of the Center for American Progress Action Fund.

Great to have all of you with us tonight.

Annette, I want to rekindle a conversation that you and I had before the
election down in Miami when we were talking about trust, and we were
talking about folks who weren`t ready to raise their hand, because Romney
was talking about deportation.

Are we still there? Do undocumented workers in this country really believe
that the Republicans are honest about this?

ANNETTE TADDEO, MIAMI-DADE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIR: I don`t think they are
there at this point. I know that they are trying and in the Senate,
Senator Rubio is trying with some interesting amendments.

But nonetheless, I think that people are still scared and they are looking
forward to this passing. They are hopeful. But I know that they need it
desperately. And I can tell you that Senator Rubio has been getting ads on
Spanish TV and radio against him, because he is supporting this. And
remember, he was elected by the Tea Party.

SCHULTZ: E.J. Dionne, what guarantees do you think the Republicans should
come forward with saying if we pass this and you raise your hand, we`re
never going to reverse this. We`re never going to put a target on your
back that you can always be on the pathway to citizenship in America.

I mean, based on the Republican history in what they`ve done, why would we
think they change?

E.J. DIONNE, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think they can do that because after
the `86 act, but that was before the Tea Party, they didn`t renege. That`s
why I think it is actually important that the 70 votes happen in the
Senate. If you get a very big margin, that includes a lot of Republicans,
it does send at least some signal.

But what`s really remarkable, I think that Michele Bachmann clip you
played, is the notion that there were Republicans who were saying, we will
never ever, ever get a substantial share of the Latino vote.

SCHULTZ: Bottom line. Yes.

DIONNE: And they have completely forgotten that George W. Bush got 40
percent. They think he is so great that they will never reach that point
again. It`s remarkable pessimism on their part about Latinos.

SCHULTZ: Don Perriello, are these lawmakers considering undocumented
workers here or are they just trying to pass something to be passing
something?

Now, I know in the House they work pretty diligently on it. But the
stubbornness of the Tea Party, do you think it would ever pass in the
House? Do you think Boehner would ever come forward? Is he using also
border security as real whipping post here?


DON PERRIELLO, CENTER OF AMERICAN PROGRESS: You are focused on Speaker
Boehner. I don`t want to take a Virginia-centric view but I think Majority
Leader Cantor is probably the key on this. He is the one who`s torpedoed
several bipartisan measures, including the farm bill last week and trying
to avoid the fiscal cliff at the end of the year.

The question is whether the Republican leadership jointly is going to
support this through. But I think we have lost site of the undocumented
workers. I think if most members of the Congress across the political
spectrum had to spend one week in the life of the undocumented worker, I
think it would be soul-transforming experience as Nuns on the Border also
tried to raise that. So we should remember the moral and family
consequences of this.

But I think it is important for Republican leaders and particularly Mr.
Cantor to say, hey, this is important for the deficit, important for
economic growth and it`s key to the American dream.

SCHULTZ: How do Republicans get a win on this, Annette? How do they get a
victory? How do they overcome the Tea Party in the House?

TADDEO: It`s going to be very difficult. They are putting difficult for
amendments that are so negative. I mean, right now, they have an amendment
in the House of Representative where they want to charge a tax to the
workers, the farm workers, the people who actually earn very little but
somehow they don`t charge that tax to all of the visas that they give for
engineers, for Microsoft, for those kind of jobs.

So it`s like a two system, two level system. It is totally unacceptable.
And they don`t -- that tax that they want to charge, it is a money that
they keep until they go back to their countries.

So that kind of behavior towards them, shows you that they don`t understand
the need for immigrants in our country.

SCHULTZ: E.J., the Tea Party isn`t going to allow President Obama to sign
something that`s going to be a part of his legacy. They hate this man.
They don`t want -- they tried to take his healthcare down. They certainly
aren`t going to let him signature something like this.

Isn`t that what it is about?

DIONNE: And that means that the Republican Party, a majority of it, is
going to have to stair down the Tea Party and say, we don`t -- on this one,
we don`t care what you think. I think that there are two forces operating
for immigration reform that are important to Republicans.

Tom Perriello right mentioned Nuns on the Border, both Catholic and
evangelical groups are fighting hard for this. I think some Republican
Congress people better pay attention to them instead of the Tea Party.

The other side is the business community. I mean, if they want to say yes
to the Tea Party, they have to say no to religious conservatives and no to
the business community. I think a lot of Republicans aren`t real happy
about doing that.

SCHULTZ: E.J. Dionne, Annette and Thomas Perriello, stay with us.

We`ve got a lot more coming up. Remember to answer night`s question at the
bottom of the screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter and @EdShow,
on Facebook. We always want to know what you think.

When we come back, can the Democrats hold the White House of 2016?
Campaigning has already begun. James Carville makes his case for the
favorite ahead.

But first, the story that will really get your blood boiling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: What is the price that you
want from these working men and women? What cost?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: New numbers out tonight on the real price of poverty and what a
living wage is actually worth these days. Not yesteryears.

Stay with us. We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: What is the price we ask, the other side, what is the price you
want from these working men and women? What cost? How much more do we
have to give to the private sector in the business? How many billion
dollars more are you asking? Are you requiring?

When does the greed stop? What is the price that the workers have to pay
no get an increase? What is it about working men and women that you find
so offensive?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

For decades, the lion of the Senate, Ted Kennedy made an impassioned plea
for raising minimum wage almost seven years ago. The stakes are even
higher now for working families in America. About 30 millions rely on
minimum wage jobs and 88 percent of them are over 20 years old.

New research shows raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour could lift
almost 6 million Americans out of poverty by 2015. Minimum wage just
doesn`t cut it for working families any more because it hasn`t changed with
inflation. You see, back in the `60s, a minimum wage job could keep family
of four above the poverty line. By 1980, a minimum wage job could not
support, could not support, a family of two.

Now you can barely support yourself working 40 hours a week on minimum
wage. Ted Kennedy`s plea for living wage is gaining momentum from lowest
paid workers to the top Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

OBAMA: Even with the tax relief we put in place, a family with two kids
that earns minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That`s wrong.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: But don`t dare let us raise minimum
wage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are here to say we can`t survive --

CROWD: On $7.25.

PELOSI: I wonder what working people ever did to the Republicans that they
have it out for them.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SCHULTZ: Imagine immigration reform adding millions more workers, trying
to support their newly American families on low wage jobs.

I`m joined again by E.J. Dionne, Annette Taddeo, and Thomas Perriello.

Tom, Mr. Perriello, let me ask this: do these two subjects of immigration
reform and minimum wage parallel one another? Having a bunch of cheap
workers come in may only drag the economy. I`m being fair about this, fair
on the conversation. I`m all for immigration reform. But from an economic
standpoint, don`t we have to make some changes?

PERRIELLO: Well, I think this is a basic shift from the idea that economic
growth trickles down from the top or does it actually grow from the working
and middle class out? What Henry Ford and other entrepreneurs a century
ago understood was the purchasing power of the working middle class drove
economic growth. We have tried policies for some years now that are based
on trickle down. They failed to produce growth for the working and middle
class.

So, on both of these cases, the question is, do we want to start focusing
again on people who want to work hard, play by the rules and make it out of
poverty in this country? And I think what we find is everybody benefits in
the economy when we have that kind of middle approach and raise minimum
wage so that someone who works 40 hours a week is not below the poverty
line. Seems like a core part of that promise to the American dream, as
does common sense immigration reform.

SCHULTZ: E.J., how do you see this? Low wage workers raised their hand,
they become unidentified. They get into the system. They become
politically powerful and they lean Democratic and put pressure on wages
going, something the conservatives don`t want. It`s a long time play, but
how do you see it?

DIONNE: Well, I think you are right t link to immigration reform. If you
look at where Americans stand on this, some Americans are worried and you
can understand why, with their wages stagnating, that a large number of
immigrants in the country legalizing them would be put downward pressure on
wages.

Now, actually, I think it wouldn`t because legalizing people would allow
them to demand their rights. But the minimum wage says to them, this
policy is not about pushing wages down. It`s about building our country,
building our economy.

And I think this middle out idea that Tom referred to is so important
because it`s time to sort of point supply side and trickle down in its
place. It has never worked. We grew far more as a country when we grew on
the basis of giving purchasing power to people to buy stuff.

SCHULTZ: Annette, does this help undocumented workers raise their hand,
knowing if they do, they might get paid more?

TADDEO: Oh, absolutely. And you know what, we`ve actually done this in
Miami, of all places, where we have over 70 percent Hispanics. We`ve
actually passed the living wage ordinance. Our state and governor is
trying to take it away.

But nonetheless, everybody from the Chamber of Commerce and others said oh,
no, no, this is terrible for business, terrible for visitor industry.
Somehow it didn`t happen. The sky didn`t fall down. So it`s proof that
this actually helps people get out of poverty. Lift up. Put their kids
through school.

And this is all that they want. The American dream and I think that it is
important to look at other cities that have done this as well.

SCHULTZ: Yes, I just can`t see any Tea Partier out there in the House who
would ever advocate for a vote for raising the minimum wage. We could be
in for a long hall of wages being depressed. Tom, your thoughts?

PERRIELLO: Well, you know, there were two gaps the Republicans were
worried about in the last election. The Latino gap and gender gap, and
they should remember that 62 percent of people making minimum wage are
women. This is an issue that affects so many families and particularly so
many women who are becoming primary bread winners at the lower end of the
economic scale.

So, I think as Republicans think about how they appeal to a broader tent,
they may need to take a second look at how supportive they want to be about
of the minimum wage.

SCHULTZ: All right. E.J. Dionne, Annette Taddeo, Thomas Perriello, great
to have you on THE ED SHOW on this Sunday evening. Thanks so much.

Coming up, Mitt Romney proved that he add sweet tooth for corporate
campaign money. Now, one of America`s favorite ice cream makers explains
how you can fight back against Citizens United.

And later, one very small step for the Republican Party. Find out why
their latest budget plan is really out of this world.

But next, I`m taking your questions. "Ask Ed Live" is just ahead. Stay
with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. We love hearing from our viewers
tonight in our "Ask Ed Live" segment.

Our question comes from Cheri Hall. And it reads, "Why would people think
Snowden was a patriot?"

Heck of a question. But first let me bring you an update.

Snowden left Hong Kong this morning and arrived in Moscow. Russian news
agencies say he will fly to Cuba, then he`ll seek asylum in Ecuador.
Snowden is on the run from federal espionage charges here in the United
States after he revealed classified details on U.S. programs.

This is just Ed. This is not the liberal perch standing up. This is what
I think.

I think this kid`s a punk. I think he`s a coward. And I don`t view him as
a patriot at all.

He`s coward because he won`t come home and face the music. And if the
United States of America is doing something so egregiously wrong in its
surveillance program, how come he is the only one speaking up? You mean
nobody else is willing to step up and say, we`re doing really bad stuff
here?

Look, the Constitution, yes. Abiding by it, very important. We`ve been
down this road. But basically as I see this, this is a white bronco chase
today is what this is. We are now balancing the credibility of this guy
and the president of the United States. Or this guy and our safety?

I`m going to error on the side of the president. I`m going to error on the
side of the safety of the country. I do not believe we have done things so
terribly wrong to keep the country safe that we need to prop this guy up,
who won`t come home and face the music because I understand there`s a lot
of people in America that are willing to support him. He should be
empowered by that, not going to China, not going to Russia, and certainly
not eking asylum.

This isn`t about you, dude. This is about the security of the country, the
security of all of us. And based on what I saw in Washington, D.C. on
September 11th, 2001, I`ll never forget the smoke coming out of the
Pentagon as it just barreled across the sit city and people screaming and
sirens and people scared.

I don`t know, I just don`t want it go through that again. So I don`t trust
this guy. I don`t trust him.

Have we made mistakes? Yes. Are we perfect? No. I don`t like getting
felt up in airports. Do you?

But sometimes what we have to do is realize that maybe our laws don`t keep
up with technology. Maybe it`s not a perfect world out there. But I do
think the United States in September 11th has done a pretty good job of
getting it right.

I`ll go with President Obama as his administration and the NSA over this
guy. Until of course I get more evidence. Maybe some of his coworkers.
Maybe a whole department will come out and say, you know, Snowden`s right.

Don`t count on it. Stick around. Well talk real panel next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you back with us.

We are 1,234 days away from the next presidential election if you`re
scoring at home. And campaign`s already beginning.

One of President Obama`s earliest supporters endorsed former secretary of
state and former Senator Hillary Clinton for 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: It doesn`t seem complicated to me.
She is by far the strongest, most capable, most qualified candidate for
president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, Clinton campaign is under way on line. Clinton supporters
are offering free bumper stickers at readyforhillary.com. The Stop Hillary
PAC is taking donations from frightened conservatives.

Hillary Clinton is not running yet but she did drop hints Thursday night
during speech in Toronto.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Let me say this,
hypothetically speaking, I really do hope we have a woman president in my
lifetime. And --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

And whether it is next time or the next time after that, it really depends
on women stepping up and subjecting themselves to the political process,
which is very difficult.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Canadian crowd of 5,000, well, they really liked it when Clinton
promised to vote for the president woman for president. As I said, we`ve
got only 1,234 days to go.

Joining me now for some real talk on this, about this race is Democratic
strategist and long time Clinton campaigner. I`ve got this man working on
Sunday afternoon. I appreciate that.

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us.

CARVILLE: You bet.

SCHULTZ: Is Hillary the one to watch right now. I mean, looking at 2016,
the way the structure campaigns are and contemporary time, is she the one
that Democrats are looking at?

CARVILLE: She is sure the one we are watching. And going around the
country, if it is any indication, with the Democrats I run into at airports
or gathering or events, it is almost unanimous that people really want her
to run for president.

That is not much after secret there. I mean, she is the focus right now.

SCHULTZ: Is there anybody else out there, who is promising?

CARVILLE: Well, I`m not very, I don`t think so. I may not be the best
person to ask. But what I can say without fear of hesitation, equivocation
or reservation is that she`s the object of that most -- every Democrat I
run into, hope she runs would be enthusiastic about her running, I can say
that. And that`s an honest objective appraisal of what I`ve felt about the
country.

SCHULTZ: You know, any time Bush came out or Cheney came out or Hillary
Clinton came out, conservatives always raised the big days of raising
money. In age of Citizens United --

CARVILLE: Right.

SCHULTZ: -- would the Clinton campaign and liberals in this country be
able to keep up? I mean, it would seem to me that there would be a lot of
folks who would not want Hillary Clinton as president. It would be a free-
for-all financially.

CARVILLE: Would she be a boom to right wing fund-raisers. Would they be
going nuts and different people going crazy? We saw that in the 90s. I
would say that Clintons have a pretty good record of beating these people
back. I`ll never forget they ride to run him out of office and overturn an
election. So, I suspect there`s much they`re going to do beyond that.

SCHULTZ: Do you think she want to do it, James?

CARVILLE: You know, I don`t know. Honestly, I say that with all
sincerity. I know at one time, she wanted to be president and she worked
very hard at it. And don`t see any need for her to make a decision until
after midterms. And I suspect that`s where her final mind is right now.

SCHULTZ: Now, latest polls show we could have another Clinton-Bush match-
up. Secretary Clinton attracting 48 percent among registered voters, Jeb
Bush is the closest Republican with 40 percent, only 7 percent say they are
unsure or they would support someone else. I mean, wouldn`t this be the --
this would be the mother race, wouldn`t it? This would be the blockbuster.
This would be it.

CARVILLE: You know, one of the things we talk about is 1,200 days out. I
mean, the truth of the matter is, we just went through the excitement of
the presidential race and things in terms of politics are kind of boring
right now. And so, everybody, you, me, every political junky, one thing
that really was our appetite and that`s a presidential year. So, we tend
to look pretty far into the future these days.

Who knows? I think that the Governor Bush would have a very difficult time
getting Republican nominations. And it`s just not me. I think a lot of
people agree with that.

SCHULTZ: Who do you think would give her the toughest test? How would she
stack up against Chris Christie, you think?

CARVILLE: If Chris Christie were to get Republican nominations, he would
be the equivalent of superman. They`re not going to nominate him. You got
to understand who votes in the Iowa caucuses and South Carolina primaries
and stuff.

This is a Northeast media fantasy that they`re going to nominate Chris
Christie. They are not even doing no such thing.

SCHULTZ: Bill Clinton going to be a plus for Hillary. He loves the
campaign trail.

I mean, look at this -- you`ve got Hillary, a juggernaut. People love her.
You`ve got Bill Clinton, who is a world figure with the Clinton global
initiative, who could ever argue with his power and also with the way he
sways people, and so convincing politically. And then President Obama.

How could the Republicans beat that, James?

CARVILLE: You know, look, I think the prospect for Democrats, I wrote a
book called "40 More Years" which is saying that the combination of the
younger people being Democratic in a demographics of country bode well. I
think it would bode well for any Democratic nominee in 2016, particularly
Hillary Clinton.

And the thing I like about her race is that you and I know she has the
message ready for her. And that is the country is ready for somebody that
is going to try to promote the middle class. If President Obama had to
save the economy, he had to deal with financial crisis, he had to deal with
a lot of things. The issue of our time, and from 2016 on, is going to be
who is going to rebuild America`s great middle class. I don`t think
anybody has the smarts or tenacity or background to do that better than
Hillary Clinton does.

I think if she runs, that would be the cornerstone of her campaign. I hope
it is. If I have -- feel to give any advice, that`s certainly what I`m
going to say.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think we all know that --

CARVILLE: I think that`s where her heart is. I think she is there right
new. And I think she understands that the real heart break that America`s
middle class is going through, and if it comes and the value of their homes
and cost of education and, you know, you got the Republican attacks on
Medicare.

SCHULTZ: The issues are not going to change. I think they will be very
similar to 2012 and the conversation will be very much the same.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: I think it`s going to be even more, because 2012 we were still
coming out of recession. We still had the auto industry, we still --
President Obama add lot of things on his plate. I think that 2016
conversation is going to be even more middle class-centric than the 2012
conversation was.

SCHULTZ: Well, we`re not going anywhere. James, good to have you with us.

CARVILLE: Thank you. Appreciate it.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much. You bet.

Tonight in our survey, I asked you, do Republicans care about the personal
struggles of undocumented workers in this country? Nine percent of you say
yes, 91 percent of you say no.

Coming up next, the Republican reveal their new budget plan. And there`s a
bad moon rising.

Plus, a sweet play to get the dough out of American politics. We have the
scoop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben, person. Jerry, person. Ben and Jerry`s not a
person. Ben and Jerry`s is a corporation.

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Corporations are people,
my friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I drink your milk shake. I`m drinking up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And the pretenders tonight. The party from outer space, the
Republicans. Do you know in their upcoming budget 2014, they have proposed
a plan to slash millions of dollars from fundamental programs? So unlike
them, isn`t it? Transportation, including Amtrak funds would be cut by a
third.

The home investment program that creates affordable housing would also be
cut by a third. Renewable energy and water programs, they`d be cut in
half. Now, conveniently, the money used for the Dodd-Frank financial
oversight laws sees a drastic reduction.

But there`s one thing that`s kind of the untouchable in all of this, it`s
the sacred cow. They took a page right out of their former speaker`s
playbook.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: By the end of my second term --

(CHEERS)

We will have the first permanent base on the moon and it`ll be American.

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, we can`t get it on this planet but maybe we can get it on
another planet where it says American-made.

Now, the moon colony dream lives on. But this time, Boehner`s bunch has
Mars on the mind. New legislation includes funds for sustained human
presence on the moon and surface for Mars.

You know what, folks? If Republicans are proposing we send them up to
Mars, I got no problem with it. But you know, putting -- how about putting
money right here on -- instead of life on Mars, does that sound like a
pretty good idea? And putting life on Mars isn`t really where we are,
instead of taking care of Americans on this planet. You know what, with
that whole plan, I think they can just keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Corporations are people, my friend. We can raise taxes that -- of
course they are, and everything that corporations earn ultimately goes to
the people. So -- where do you think it goes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It goes in your pocket.

ROMNEY: Whose pockets? Whose pockets? People`s pockets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, the good old days. And welcome to THE ED SHOW. This is a
story for the folks who take a shower after work.

Now, that, of course, is the sound bite that ended Mitt Romney`s campaign
before it got started, the idea of corporations being people clearly isn`t
popular with Americans.

But unfortunately, it`s why the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Citizens
United giving the corporations a right to spend unlimited amounts of money
on the political campaigns. The ruling prompted unlimited spending from
super PACs in the election and a total of 226 super PACs spent roughly $546
million during last year`s presidential race, it`s going to get worse. A
whopping $290 million was spent in opposition of President Obama, while $94
was spent opposing Mitt Romney. The system is clearly flawed.

And now, the founder of Ben & Jerry`s ice cream is trying to stamp money
out of politics. Ben Cohen has started the stamp stampeded. He`s been
traveling around the country in the stamp mobile. It`s a custom-built
truck meant to draw awareness to the Citizens United. You put a dollar
into the machine, and then this happens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You load a dollar bill into the plastic piece, and
those slide a long a little plastic track. At the top, it releases it and
goes down a track bumping into the strike plates that trigger a couple of
signs. One says that corporations are not people. It hits another striker
that opens what we call Mr. Money mouth. The platen swings around a curve
and hits a stamping mechanism and then it ejects it from the stamping
mechanism and the person who put the bill in can then get their newly
stamped bill back out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Ben Cohen. He`s the co-founder of Ben and
Jerry`s Ice Cream, and the head stamper for the stampede program.

Great to have you with us, Ben. Thank you.

Tell us about the stamp stampede. What are you trying the do here?

BEN COHEN, BEN & JERRY`S ICE CREAM: Well, we`re trying to build the
movement to amend the constitution to get money out of politics. The
stampede is just one small part of that movement. Already, 15 states have
passed resolutions in favor of that amendment to get money out, 150 members
of Congress have voted in favor of it. And the role of the stampede is to
get tens of thousands of Americans to be stamping their dollar bills.

I`ve actually got some stamps right here, and that`s what I do. I stamp
the dollar bills, and here`s one that stays stamp money out of politics.
But the one I like the best is this one right here. "Not to be used for
bribing politicians." So --

SCHULTZ: Is this legal stamping the money like that?

COHEN: It is absolutely legal. We have a high class first amendment
lawyer in New York City who assures us that it is legal. And you know, we
have read the regulations, and they say that, you know, as long as you are
not altering the denomination or making it so that it`s no longer obviously
currency, or advertising your business, it`s OK.

SCHULTZ: What kind of reaction you getting around the country on this,
Ben?

COHEN: Well, you know, people love it. Because, you know, 80 percent of
Republicans and Democrats want to get money out of politics. And --

SCHULTZ: They just don`t know how to do it.

COHEN: They love the idea that this is something that anybody can do. You
can stamp your money anywhere any time. We sell them on the Web site,
stampstampede.org at our cost. You know, it is a lot of fun.

Actually, I carry around the executive model switchblade of rubber stamps,
the executive model pocket stamp. It pops right out, and, you know, if you
are walk down the alley and somebody is coming at you, you go, ugh! And,
isn`t that really cool?

SCHULTZ: It is cool. I`ve got to get one of those.

COHEN: Isn`t that amazing? I think that I can arrange that.

SCHULTZ: And I think that this machine, illustrates really when a dollar
goes into the political system just what it goes to. I mean, this is more
than clever. Tell us about it.

COHEN: Well, you know, it trip assign that pops up, and says corporations
are not people.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

COHEN: And then it passes by this picture of this gentleman with a tall
top hat, a businessman, and you know, when it goes by, his head and the hat
flip to one side and it exposes a corporate office tower.

SCHULTZ: Now, you designed this?

COHEN: I did, along with a whole bunch of other people. There was a guy
named Allen Rory, yes.

SCHULTZ: All right. So Democratic senators -- and I want to bring this in
Democratic Senators Jon Tester and Chris Murphy proposed a constitutional
amendment this week that established that corporations are not people, and
I want to play you Mitch McConnell`s reaction to it. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: They are uncomfortable with
free speech and only uncomfortable with it when the Supreme Court said why
a carve out for a corporation who owns a media outlet and no one else. It
is an absurd proposal and it won`t go anywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: What is your reaction to that?

COHEN: I think what s saying is counter to what the people in his party
want. I talk to Republicans on the street, and the poll Republicans will
all say they want money out of politics, and they don`t believe that
corporations are people.

SCHULTZ: By the way, I had some seven-layer bar today, and it is pretty
darn good, and you have a great product. Of course, I`m easy, but I like
to eat. You know?

All right. The final question, how do people get involved in this?

COHEN: You just go the stampstampede.org, and you can buy a stamp there at
our cost, and I will tell you what, coming up and I haven`t announced this
to anybody before --

SCHULTZ: OK.

COHEN: Coming up for the entire month of July, in honor of the birthday of
our country, it is pay what you can month at the stamp stampede. So you
can go to the Web site --

SCHULTZ: All right. I`ve go to go. Ben, thanks so much for your time.
We`ll do it again.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. We are back here next Saturday at
5:00 p.m. Eastern.


END


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