Skip navigation

All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, June 28, 2013

Read the transcript from the Friday show

  Most Popular
Most viewed

June 28, 2013
Guests: Nina Turner, Terry O`Neill, Luis Gutierrez, Esther Armah, John
Nichols, Dayo Olopade

CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening, from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Listen to me. It is a summer Friday night, and we have two big pieces of
breaking news to tell you about.

The first, the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has just cleared the way
for same-sex marriages to resume in California. Kris Perry and Sandy
Stier, the plaintiffs in the California Prop 8 case, just got married in
San Francisco City Hall with a bunch of on lookers and we are hoping we
have one or both of them shortly. Of course, this decision originally --
the Prop 8 being passed in California had meant that a whole class of
people were in legal limbo and it stopped any future marriages for any gay
couples in the state.

Kris Perry is the named plaintiff in Perry v. Hollingsworth, which is the
case, the lawsuit that worked its way up to the Supreme Court and was
decided on a 5-4 decision on Wednesday. A decision that was somewhat
strange legally insofar as it kicked the decision back to the Ninth Circuit
Court of Appeals, and in kicking it back to the Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals allowed the judgment of that appellate court to stand. That
appellate court earlier ruled that Proposition 8 which bans same-sex
marriages in the state of California was unconstitutional.

And so, that ruling by the California, by the Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals that covers of the state of California, that ruling stood in place.
But it was not until a few moments ago -- it was not until a few moments
ago that we found out that that ban was lifted. We are hoping to speak to
Kris Perry and Sandy Stier just a little later in the program.

Now, another big piece of breaking news tonight. A federal judge in
Alabama has blocked a key provision of a new law that likely would have
shut down three of the state`s five abortion clinics. It`s the so-called
trap law, signed by the state`s Republican governor earlier this year.
it`s targeted regulations aimed only at abortion providers and designed to
shut them down.

District Judge Myron Thompson issued a temporary restraining order tonight
barring the state from enforcing the new law while a lawsuit against it
moves forward. Writing his opinion that the abortion provider suing the
state showed, quote, "concrete serious harms from the legislation." The
Alabama law uses the same mechanism lawmakers used in Mississippi to try to
shut down the only remaining clinic in that state last year.

And it is the same mechanism being employed by lawmakers in Texas, in their
now-famous attempt to shut down most of the abortion clinics in that state.
The Texas proposal is famous now to the extent that antiabortion
legislation can be famous, thanks of course to State Senator Wendy Davis
and her dramatic 11-hour filibuster of the bill earlier this week and the
genuine political uprising it brought about.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we can have order in the chamber so that the members
can properly cast their vote.


HAYES: The sudden political stardom of Wendy Davis brought to national
attention in dramatic fashion a powerful, high-stakes battle over women`s
health right that is not by any means exclusive to the state of Texas. It
is a battle that is raging on all over the country often in little noticed
state capitals almost every day.

Here, for example, is what`s happening in North Carolina just this week.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Abortion is on the verge of being added to curriculum
at your child`s middle school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t go before the education committee. There
was no public comment open on this bill. And starting as soon as this
fall, kids as young as 11 and 12 could be taught the dangers of abortion in
the classroom.


HAYES: Not just the dangers of abortion, mind you, the fake made up
dangers of abortion. That`s right. Both the House and Senate in the state
of North Carolina have passed legislation to force teachers to tell middle
schoolers that having an abortion puts them at risk of preterm birth later

Now, that is an assertion that is not supported by the world`s health
organization, the CDC, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologist,
or any other major mainstream health organization.

And while conservatives in North Carolina are trying to work antiabortion
propaganda to public school curriculum, conservatives in Ohio have just
sneaked a series of radical antiabortion measures into the state`s budget.

Watch what happened yesterday when Republicans passed their budget loaded
full of creative new antiabortion rules.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With 21 ayes and 11 nays, the report of the committee
conference is agreed to.

Those for third consideration?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you! Shame on you!


HAYES: That is actually what happened. Now, look, what happens, fade to
black, and bring on the nothing to see here music and shot of the state
capitol. Yes, yes, nothing going on inside that building at all untoward,
just the shouting of "Shame on you, shame on you", which, of course, is not
being recorded.

We`re told that what happened after that skillfully handed disruption is
that some of the troublemakers in gallery were asked to leave. Though
protesters also gathered --


HAYES: -- to protest the abortion rights being waged in this year`s budget
documents. Those antiabortion goodies loaded into the budget include a
scheme to defund Planned Parenthood, a new funding stream for antiabortion
crisis pregnancy centers, new rules for what doctors have to tell women
before they`re allowed access to abortion.

And one measure that is truly jaw dropping in its creative cruelty, Ohio`s
newly passed budget would ban abortion clinics from entering into transfer
agreements with public hospitals. Just think about what that means for a
moment. Abortion is a very safe procedure and complications are very, very
rare. If something does go wrong, the message Ohio Republicans would like
to send to women is that if you are suffering a medical emergency as a
result of an abortion, they would like to ban you from getting treatment at
a public hospital.

Ohio`s antiabortion Republican Governor John Kasich said can use a line-
item veto to strike the antiabortion measures in the budget, but that`s
seen as a very unlikely outcome. He has to sign the budget one way or
another by this Sunday night.

The angle, of course, is the same in Ohio as it was in Alabama and
Mississippi before their TRAP laws were blocked by the courts, and the same
as it is in Texas to shut town abortion clinics. The lesson is
unmistakable. This assault on women`s reproductive rights is unceasing,
but it is also devilishly generative. There`s no end to the creative ways
in which conservatives can and will and are engineering workarounds to deny
women rights guaranteed by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade 40 years ago.

Joining me now is Ohio State Senator Nina Turner, a Democrat who represents
district 25 which includes Cleveland.

And, Senator, my first question for you is how did these provisions end up
in a budget?

STATE SEN. NINA TURNER (D), OHIO: Chris, only God knows. They put the
provisions in like thieves in the night, like cowards that they are. They
didn`t even have the decency to have their anti-woman legislation stand
alone so we could debate it. They thought no one was watching but
surprise, surprise, surprise.

Some of the footage you showed, hundreds of people showed up at the
statehouse on Thursday, alone, with doctors. We delivered -- NARAL and
also Planned Parenthood -- delivered 17,000 letters to the governor,
pleading with him to line item veto these measures.

Chris, we have children to need to be educated. We have infrastructure
that needs to be repaired. We have people who need to be uplifted.
Instead of doing this, the GOP is still deadly preoccupied with a woman`s
womb and it doesn`t make any kind of sense. This is a constitutionally
guaranteed procedure whether you support it or not, and the fact that they
are trying to regulate access to abortion out of the universe makes no


The governor has to sign this document by Sunday. He does have the
possibility, in your state there is a provision, there is a line-item veto,
he can line-item veto it. What is your sense of what he`s going do, and
what political pressures are being brought to bear on either direction of
the governor right now?

TURNER: Well, besides those letters that were delivered, Chris, women and
men who support women and their access to medical care, high quality
medical care have been calling the governor`s office and sending e-mails.
The power is in his hands. Although he did not put those measures in the
budget, he has the opportunity to stand up for women in the state of Ohio
and line-item veto this ideological foolishness out of the budget.

Women deserve, Chris, could you ever think of a time in this country where
men would be regulated in such a way that anybody would stand between a man
and his doctor? It wouldn`t happen. And so we cannot tolerate as Ohioans
and as citizens of this country folks using their ideology to stand in the
way between women and their doctors.

You know, Susan B. Anthony once said that men and their rights no more, and
women and their rights, nothing less. That is what we have to stand up
for. We are pleading with the governor to line item veto every single one
of those anti-women provisions in that budget.

We`ve seen Republican overreach in your state before when it had to do with
public sector unions, passing a bill that went hard after public sector
unions and a massive rebuke, motivation, mobilization and overturning that.
Is the populist of Ohio aware of this battle happening right now? Enough
that there will be recriminations if this will bill is signed into law?

TURNER: More and more they are, Chris. There`s going to be a day of
reckoning in 2014. Game on in 2014.

Elections have consequences, and we have got to stand up in the state of
Ohio and say this is not how we want our government run. Again, there`s
real work to do, but yet and still, they sit up here and use their
political might and power to oppress women. Makes no sense, Chris.

We are making very hard in the state of Ohio to make sure that people do
not forget what has happened to women this year. What has been happening
to voters last year, and what happened to workers in 2012 all at the hands
of the GOP.

HAYES: Ohio State Senator Nina Turner, thank you so much.

TURNER: Thank you.

HAYES: Joining me now is Terry O`Neill, president of the National
Organization for Women.

Terry, there was a huge uptick after the kind of Tea Party electorate
showed up in 2010, and it elected these very, very right wing statehouses
in 2011. There was a huge uptick in antiabortion measures, abortion
restrictions. You can see it right there.

Are we seeing something in 2013 similar at the state level?

TERRY O`NEILL, NATL. ORGANIZATION FOR WOMEN: You know, it may not be quite
as high as it was in 2011, but it is absolutely moving forward. To me,
there`s a very interesting split in the Republican Party. On the one hand,
you have people like Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana saying, well, we
have to moderate our message, our rhetoric, although he certainly doesn`t
seem to want to moderate the harsh anti-woman agenda that the Republican
Party is pursuing. But there is this call to moderate the rhetoric.

The problem is that women are not fooled, and men voters are not fooled
either. So, some Republicans want to stop sort of pushing forward with
these very divisive social issues like stopping women from having ordinary
health care, but other Republicans are moving forward very, very
aggressively. There are a number of states that have passed these clearly
unconstitutional criminalizations of abortion at 20 weeks.

In Arkansas, it was 12 weeks. In North Dakota, it was six weeks, and for
the sole purpose of challenging Roe v. Wade before the Supreme Court.
That, frankly, is not always terrible policy, as Senator Turner was just
saying. It`s stupid politics.

The reality is, and I think that the uprising, and I do call it an uprising
in Texas, has shown, and the outpouring in Ohio on virtually no notice, you
had hundreds of people showing up at the statehouse to protest these
draconian anti-woman laws.

That is going to influence 2014 for sure.

HAYES: Terry, you just mentioned the 20-week ban. The 20-week bans being
pushed in a lot of places. A 20-week ban is part of the law in Texas that
was filibustered, although a big part of that bill basically targeted the
actual abortion clinics would have shut down the majority of them.

The 20-week ban seems like a new strategic turn for the antiabortion
movement. Partly because at the face level, if you poll people on this,
it`s relatively popular and it seems like this is the new marker they`re
laying down and it`s not necessarily a strategically foolish one.

O`NEILL: Not in the short term if their goal is to stop women -- if their
goal is to make a huge dent in Roe versus Wade or even to overturn Roe
versus Wade.

Look, I think I the women`s movement, and in the reproductive rights
movement, we really do know what we`re up against. We have hostile Supreme
Court justices. Certainly four of them that, in my view, are eager to
overturn Roe v. Wade. We have a Supreme Court hat has just eviscerated the
voting rights act which is going to then allow the kind of gerrymandering
that actually would have kicked Wendy Davis out of her seat.

But for the Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, Supreme Court has
eviscerated that. That`s gone.

So in the short term, there`s no doubt in my mind that the men, and they`re
almost all men, and frankly they`re almost all white, will be able to grab
power, abuse their power, and move forward with some very anti-woman

But as Nina Turner says, there`s a day of reckoning coming. This is still
a democracy in this country, and the people are completely at odds with
this draconian agenda.

You know, 77 percent of voters leaving the polls in 2012 said that they
wanted Roe v. Wade to remain the law of the land. That included 35 percent
of voters who identify as pro-choice -- pro-life, pro-life voters who don`t
want Roe v. Wade to be overturned. These men are swimming up against the
desires of the people of this country and I think there will be

HAYES: What`s really interesting is that the politics on this issue are
complicated and they are in this kind of tense equilibrium. And the only
thing I think you can see conclusively is that people actually want the
status quo and they don`t want incursions. And those are what is
precipitating (ph) this now.

Terry O`Neill from the National Organization for Women -- thank you so

O`NEILL: Thank you.

HAYES: Now that comprehensive bipartisan immigration reform has been
passed in the Senate, it`s up to John Boehner to get his party to pass it
in the House. And it`s up to us to make sure he doesn`t weasel his way out
of it. That`s coming up.


HAYES: John Boehner needs to have a talk with -- 2012 John Boehner needs
to have a talk with 2013 John Boehner to remind him about what he said
about finding common ground to take care of immigration reform once and for
all. I`ll explain, ahead.


HAYES: We go into this weekend with much more clarity than we`ve had in a
long time about just who it is that will determine the fate of 11 million
of our fellow Americans. Yesterday this historic vote happened --
bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform passing 68-32. And now, it`s
on to the House of Representatives whose speaker, John Boehner, was quick
to issue this edict.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Apparently, some haven`t
gotten the message. The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever
the Senate passes. We`re going to do our own bill through regular order
and there will be legislation that reflects the will of our majority and
the will of the American people.


HAYES: That attitude, fan the flames of the naysayers, savvy and
otherwise, who rushed to say this bill is more or less dead in the House.


DANA BASH, CNN: John Boehner, the speaker, even said today it`s got to
look very different -- very, very different -- for them to take up this
issue if at all.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN: That`s right. They might not even vote on it.

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS: Between the lines there, what Boehner is saying is
a majority of House Republicans have to support it and that means that the
Senate Democrats who passed this thing today won`t be happy as they try to
work out a compromise.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: John Boehner keeps saying he`s not going it let it come
up on the floor unless he knows for sure a majority of the Republican
members of the House will support it.


HAYES: Now, I don`t actually believe that. When people say it, or when
they go further and say immigration reform in general is dead in the House,
they play into John Boehner`s hands. Because John Boehner is trying to
convince everyone that the immigration bill he has just been passed is
doomed to failure. Boehner is staking out a negotiating position in which
there is no wiggle room. He wants you to believe there`s jut nothing he
can do, his caucus won`t support it. So leadership can`t get behind it.

But the Republican caucus, and it`s hard to keep this in mind sometimes
because of the way they act, the Republican caucus is not simply a feature
of the political landscape or some force nature. It is a bunch of human
beings subject to conscience, pressure and practical considerations about
their political future. And believe me, the broad coalition of
institutions, organizations, donors, and grassroots movements are going to
bring that pressure.

I honestly think John Boehner has no idea what he`s in store for. If Steve
King thought that he was made uncomfortable when, as he tweeted, "20 brazen
self-professed illegal aliens have just invaded my D.C. office", he should
ready himself for a long, hot summer. If at the end of it, King and
Boehner and the rest of the House Republicans want to burn to the ground
the aspirations of 11 million people and tens of millions of voters, then
that`s on them.

But those who have already on colluded that that`s where this ends up are
both underestimating the power of the movement for reform and supplying an
excuse for the Republican caucus for doing something that is inexcusable,
which is killing this bill.

Joining me now is Congressman Luis Gutierrez, Democrats from Illinois.
He`s chair of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Immigration Task Force.

Congressman, you and I think have similar perspectives on this. I`d like
to think it`s not wishful thinking but I was in arguments with friends of
mine yesterday, political analysts, reporters, who I really cover the Hill,
who know it well, who say, why on earth is Boehner doubling down on this
thing that`s he`s not going to bring this up, he`s not going to violate the
Hastert Rule. He`s going to support something of a majority of a majority.

Why is he painting himself into this corner unless he really means it?

REP. LUIS GUITERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: I have come to the conclusion that the
Republican majority in the House of Representatives has no understanding,
just does not comprehend the depth, the width, the broadness of the
American people`s support for comprehensive immigration reform, and,
unfortunately, our movement for immigration reform spent all of its energy,
fortunately successfully in getting the bill through the Senate.

All of those forces, let me just say the array of forces, the spectrum, the
ideological spectrum, political ideological, religious, economical -- I
mean, you look at it from every sector of our society. You`re going to
have "The New York Times" and the "Wall Street Journal." we`re going to be
together on this, but so are some pundits on some other TV stations that
aren`t quite with the issue in the past.

Look, you cannot stop this. And when it is felt, I really believe that
you`re going to get a vote of the majority.

Having said that, look, we`re also going to be smart and practical and
flexible. We need to give a safe place for Republicans, and there are
dozens of them. Like Paul Ryan and like Rubio in the Senate and others
that put that bill together, and Paul Ryan who I know is going to help us
put it together in the House of Representatives. We need to give them a
bipartisan space.

So here`s what the speaker says. He says we`re not going to accept the
Senate version. We don`t have to accept the Senate version. We can come
with a version from the House of Representatives and we can go to
conference and we can come out with a bill that the president can probably

HAYES: OK. So, that`s my question. Let`s say, let`s say this. John
Boehner won`t break the Hastert Rule on this. He`s not going to bring a
bill up that doesn`t have the majority support of his caucus.

Let`s say a bill passes a house that is an immigration bill. I believe one
has to because they`re not idiots. They understand it`s just their murder
is too obvious if they just plunge the dagger in in front of everybody by
just, like, not letting the bill come up at all, right? Let`s say they
pass an immigration bill.

But it looks nothing like the Senate bill. You go to conference. It`s
like trying to mate a wildebeest and a caterpillar. What the heck comes
out of the thing that is all -- what ungodly creature comes out of the
conference committee that gets you where you want to go?

GUTIERREZ: You know, I get your point. But let me tell you something. I
don`t think it will be s dissimilar in terms of fundamental issues. Like
the right of 11 million people --

HAYES: Path to citizenship.

GUTIERREZ: -- to live with justice, have a path to citizenship. To have
their families protected.

Look, come on, Chris, before the Republicans kind of had an argument.
Well, when the Democrats were in charge and Obama was elected president,
they didn`t bring about comprehensive. They had their chance and they blew
it. And they`re really not that serious about it.

But after the vote yesterday, when 54 Democrats -- I`ve never seen --
that`s the kind of base you start with, 54 out of 54 senators voted for
comprehensive immigration reform.

Let me just say, in rejecting Steve King`s trying to defund the DREAM Act
and the president`s executive order, stopping the deportation, 198 out of
201 Democrats voted against that.

HAYES: Partisan lines here are clear. They understand what the stakes

GUTIERREZ: They`re clear.

HAYES: The question is whether they get the message in time.

Congressman Luis Gutierrez, thank you so much. Have a great weekend.

GUTERRIEZ: Thank you.

HAYES: After totally freaking America out about something they probably
never heard of before, director Josh Fox is back with another look at
hydraulic fracturing. Fracking. A special preview of "Gasland Part 2"
when we come back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all settled out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that`s what our water looked like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That came out of just out of the tap?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of the tap.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, at three weeks they contacted Mike by phone and
said we`ve tested your water, there`s nothing wrong with your water.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With this. There`s nothing wrong with the water that
can be affected by the oil and gas production in your area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa. Jesus Christ!


HAYES: When I first watched that iconic shot from documentary "Gasland",
I, like most Americans, I`m guessing knew absolutely nothing, zero, about
the gas extraction process called hydraulic fracturing, commonly known as

But in the three short years since "Gasland" came out, Americans have
watched sometimes in horror as the United States has undergone nothing
short of a fracking revolution, one that has touched hundreds of
communities across the country from central Pennsylvania to New Mexico, to
upstate New York.

And it`s only just the beginning. The explosion of natural gas production
in the United States has completely and totally revolutionized the entire
American economy and energy industry. It has also made fracking one of the
most controversial and intense battles being waged in communities, and on a
larger scale in Washington, where the White House and Congress are very
friendly to natural gas.

Over the past five years, fracking has truly changed everything and now
Josh Fox is back. The man who made the world pay attention to the fracking
revolution happening in backyards across the country and in the process
became enemy number one of the U.S. energy industry. "Gas Land Part 2" is
his new documentary about the front line of the fracking revolution.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One night, I went out with him. At this time, we
didn`t need the flare camera.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just don`t breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just don`t breathe. The wind is coming from this side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, that one -- see that one just went out, shooting
methane up in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, it`s right behind somebody`s house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can smell something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what Bob was talking about, methane venting
straight up into the atmosphere. There had to be a better way.


HAYES: Joining me now is Josh Fox, director of "Gas Land Part 2," a
follow-up to the 2010 Academy Award nominee documentary "Gas Land," which
he also directed. "Gas Land Part 2" premieres on HBO Monday, July 8th at
9:00 p.m. Great to have you here, Josh.

JOSH FOX, DIRECTOR, "GAS LAND PART 2": Thanks. It`s great to be here.

HAYES: Explain what we just saw there.

FOX: Well, that`s a great way to start. What you saw there were flare
stacks in somebody`s backyard. I mean, when we were talking about natural
gas development, you`re talking about gas development all over the place,
urban areas, rural areas, suburban areas, it doesn`t matter, national
parks, state parks. You have gas that`s being developed, fracked and
drilled all over America and it`s affecting millions of people.

The target zone for this industry, they have leased more land than the
whole landmass of California and Florida combined. So if you picture lease
property/non-lease property. Lease property it affects a landmass twice as
many as that. That`s millions of people. What you saw there were flare
stacks after drilling operations and you see one of those stacks go out.

Something that`s very common and it`s shooting methane straight up into
the atmosphere. Methane, an extremely potent green house gas, methane is
natural gas. But what people don`t understand is how much of this methane
is leaking.

HAYES: Yes, so let`s talk about the methane issue. The defenders of
natural gas and people who doubt the fracking revolution, there are even
some environmentalists who do, say, look, we have carbon emissions at an
all-time low -- not an all-time low, obviously, not an all-time low, but at
a low recently. I mean, we`ve seen carbon really fall off the cliff and
it`s because of natural gas. What role does methane play in how we
understand whether this is good for the climate?

FOX: That`s a great question. Methane is the second most important
greenhouse gas. It also warms the planet much faster, it dissipates much
quicker. Methane in the 20-year timeframe, the next two decades, it warms
the atmosphere 80 to 105 times more than carbon dioxide does. So you need
80 to 105 pounds of carbon dioxide to equal one pound of methane.

HAYES: To get the same greenhouse gas effect.

FOX: Right. Which means you need something like any more than 1 percent
leakage of methane in the total production of natural gas means that you`re
worse than coal which is our worse fossil fuel. I`m not advocating for
coal. As we saw just a few days ago, the president comes out and talks
about climate. I mean, look, it`s amazing to see a president talk about

HAYES: We agreed.

FOX: I`ve always been an Obama supporter and it`s an incredibly welcome
thing to say this is the number one crisis that we`re facing as humanity.
I couldn`t be more happy about that. I couldn`t be more unhappy about the
fact that the plan increases natural gas production, exports natural gas
production and encourages natural gas production in other countries.

HAYES: OK. So here`s my, if I`m incredibly cynical, this is my feeling
about this. There is a ton of money in this. It`s cheap and only getting
cheaper. The policy apparatus of this country is behind it. What is going
to stop the freight train that is the fracking revolution?

FOX: We`ve already seen this. I mean, look, I made this film as a YouTube
-- to start off as a YouTube video for my community. The fact we have one
of the fastest growing and one of the most successful environmental -- I
mean, the fracktevists out there. There`s hundreds of thousands --

HAYES: They`re in my inbox.

FOX: You know, look, four years ago in New York State, we heard you`re
never going to stop that. The citizens of New York State stopped the
fracking industry in New York State. We stopped it in the upper Delaware
River basin. We have bans in Pittsburgh, bans all over towns in
Pennsylvania and in New York and in New Mexico.

We saw Californians against fracking get launched a few weeks ago. They
have 100 organizations signed on in the first six months. What this is, is
this is really a test of our democracy. We know we have the poll numbers
in New York. People understand this. In Pennsylvania, I just, the latest
poll, 2/3 of Pennsylvanians are in support of a moratorium on fracking.


FOX: What we don`t have, and this is what this film examines right now is

HAYES: We don`t have a political system equipped to transfer that opinion
into policy because of the amount of money on the table in terms of fossil
fuel. Josh Fox, director of "Gas Land Part 2." It premieres on HBO,
Monday, July 8th at 9:00 p.m. Thank you so much.

FOX: Thanks, Chris.

HAYES: We`ll be back with Click 3.


HAYES: Despite what some right wingers are still trying to tell you, the
president of the United States was not born in Africa, but he is there at
this moment. It`s a continent with a fascinating story that is going to
play a huge role in America`s future. That`s next.

But first I want to bring you the three awesomest things on the internet
today. The first, the first is beginning with a story brought to you by
the letter "G" a-n-y. The "New Yorker" has released the cover of next
week`s issue, a clever nod to the Supreme Court`s ruling on DOMA featuring
a cuddling Bert and Ernie watching the nine justices on TV.

A version of the illustration was originally submitted to a Tumblr over a
year ago. Some are calling it amazing, parodies are now popping up and the
backlash has begun. "Slate`s" June Thomas says the cover is a terrible way
to commemorate a major civil rights victory.

"Labor Wire" Tyler Coates was more direct calling it infantilizing and
offensive. As for the cover`s main character, this isn`t the first time
Bert and Ernie`s sexuality has come into question. Before further debate,
consider these wise words from the CEO of Sesame Workshop a few years back.
They are not gay, they are not straight. They are puppets. They do not
exist below the waist. Touche.

The second awesomest thing on the internet today, one of the five people
responsible for the Doma decision gets her moment in the sun. Ruth Bader
Ginsburg has been delivering her brand of progressive justice to the
nation`s highest court since 1993.

This week, an NYU law student rushed to Tumblr to pay tribute to Ruth
Bader Ginsburg appropriately entitled "Notorious RBG," complete with gifts,
graphics, your favorite quotes and court opinions.

There`s also an RGB fashion and a nod to her workout routine. Her trainer
says she can out arm -- proving the point that Chuck Norris may walk on
water, but Ruth Bader Ginsburg can swim through land.

The third awesomest thing on the internet today comes from Iowa`s senior
senator, the honorable Charles Grassley. Grassley enjoys communicating
with constituents via the Twitter and not just on matters (inaudible). For
example, earlier today came this tweet. History on the History Channel,
yes, history, Attila the Hun right now. Dude, the rest of us are at work.
What are you doing?

As if he read my mind, about an hour later came this tweet, surprise,
still more history on History Channel, now Cleopatra. This is classic
Grassley. Reading the man`s Twitter feed is like watching an artist of
many genres at work. Abstract, eating at noodle zoo, I just ate there.
Chuck Grassley, the minimalist. Tweets includes #if.

Last but not least, there`s Chuck Grassley, the Hemingway tribute artist.
Fred and I hit a deer on Highway 136 south of Dyersville. After I pulled
fender rubbing on tire, we continued to farm. Assume deer dead.

You can find all the links for tonight`s Click 3 on my web site, We`ll be right back.


HAYES: Right now it is just before 3:00 a.m. in Johannesburg, South
Africa, where one of the most important heroes of our time, Nelson Mandela,
conquered the evil of apartheid, remains in, quote, "clinically unwell
condition." He`s been hospitalized in a serious lung infection for almost
three weeks now.

President Obama is also in Johannesburg this evening. All the talk is
about whether he`ll get a chance to make a bedside pilgrimage to visit the
great man before he passes away.


photo-op, and the last thing I want to do is be in any way obtrusive when
the family is concerned about Nelson Mandela`s condition.


HAYES: President Obama is not in South Africa because Nelson Mandela may
be in the final moments of his life. He is there as president of the U.S.
visiting the continent`s largest economy and a major trade partner for

He`s in Senegal on Wednesday and he is headed to Tanzania on Monday for
similar reason. These three countries appear to give the president the
best shot of taking advantage of economic opportunities in Africa,
something America arguably hasn`t done a very good job of at late.

China`s trade with Africa was almost $200 billion last year. Compare that
to the U.S. and China just about doubles it. There are other countries
getting the game, said Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes. If the
United States is not leading in Africa, we`re going to fall behind in a
very important region in the world.

Over the last decade, an incredible story unfolded in sub-Saharan Africa,
where six of the world`s ten fastest growing economies are located.
According to the economist, over the next decade, Africa`s GDP is expected
to rise by an average of 6 percent a year. In other words, Africa matters,
and not for a site for aid or development or pity.

The president is there to try to stake a claim in this emerging market.
Also Africa matters to the president in a very personal way, for a black
man, as the country`s first black president, standing in the door of no
return. The entrance to the slave ships heading to the Americas obviously
holds the kind of symbolism absent from George W. Bush and Bill Clinton`s
visit to Africa.

This is, after all, Barack Hussein Obama, son of Barack Hussein Obama Sr.,
born and raised in Kenya. In fact, Nelson Mandela and Barack Obama are
probably right now in Johannesburg, they are probably the two most famous
men in the entire world through which African blood runs.

Joining me now is Ester Armah, host of WBII FM`s "Wake Up Call." She has
lived in Ghana, reporter from South Africa. John Nichols, my colleague at
"The Nation," where he is Washington correspondent. John traveled with
Nelson Mandela in South Africa and a Nigerian American journalist and night
media scholar at Yale Law School. Great to have you all here.

You`ve been spending a lot of time reporting, you`ve been living in Africa
writing about sub-Saharan Africa specifically. There is a pretty amazing
story of what`s happened there since the great recession and even longer.
What is the story, if you had to say, in broad strokes that Americans don`t

DAYO OLOPADE, JOURNALIST: Sure. You know, it`s hard to imagine that it`s
been 20 years since Nelson Mandela, you know, became the first president
of, the black president of South Africa, and even in the last ten years
you`ve seen this incredible story of democratic governance taking root.

Just last year there were 30 elections across the continent. Beyond the
rule of law narrative, there have been all sorts of interesting innovations
and activity happening outside of the public sector you could call it.
That means off-grid energy. That means incredible amounts of investment.

That means innovations for education and this huge connectivity boom. I
think that`s been one of the more transformative aspects of African
development the last five years is the emergence of connectivity for a vast

HAYES: I`m fascinated by this China/Sub-Saharan Africa access that`s
emerged and it`s like a real, real intense thing. Listen to this quote
which blew my mind. "Former Chinese President Hu Jintao visited 17 African
nations in a single ten-month stretch between July 2006 and February 2007.
China`s current President Xi Jinping already visited three African
countries since taking office on March 14th, 2013."

This, my understanding is, in countries across the content, from Nigeria
to Ghana to South Africa, you are seeing in very tangible terms the
products of Chinese investment.

ESTHER ARMAH, HOST, WBII FM`S "WAKE UP CALL": You absolutely are. But it
also reminds me, do you remember when former Secretary of State Hillary
Clinton talked about China being the new colonial power for Africa and if
America doesn`t get its act together, China is going to take over in a way
that arguably America should be. So the evidence of China`s presence and
the willingness to invest in both the public and the private sector, it is
an explosion.

HAYES: Is it greeted as colonialism, or is it -- how is it greeted?

ARMAH: So this is the thing. What China has done is to make this argument
that it offers an understanding of Africa`s cultural capital. And so while
it`s making economic investments, it`s not doing so absent the
understanding of what this nation is culturally, which is different in the
colonial years not thinking of who the people were. Now, in practical
terms, it is not that. It`s a great strategy.

HAYES: So John, what I feel like is America has a very simplistic notion
of Africa. Africa is just this thing. It`s one word. It`s a country.
And there`s been a lot of critique of the president for not doing a better
job in terms of -- like, how do you make this relationship matter to

there, physically go there. Unfortunately, you drag the press corps along.
Even if they ask you about Edward Snowden every stop --

HAYES: Which they did.

NICHOLS: -- you still go there. It matters. There`s something else the
president is doing, which has been dramatically under covered. Right
before he went, he appointed former Senator Russ Feingold as the special
envoy in Africa is known as the great lakes region, a Central African
region. which has immense innovation going on, some very great things.
They also have really tough countries.

Putting Feingold in there was a very big deal. He was on the Africa
subcommittee for 18 years. He`s known in Africa. It was a clear signal
that this administration wants to engage at a higher level and wants
actually to be prodded a little bit.

HAYES: So I want to ask you about his reception there and his reception in
South Africa. I`m thinking of the president and there are some criticisms
that he has been checked out of this relationship.

I want to talk about Nelson Mandela and South Africa and the kind of
amazing poetic resonance between two men`s trajectories right after we take
this break.



PRESIDENT OBAMA: Make a profound difference in the lives of farmers. What
we`re seeing here today are businesspeople, farmers, academics,
researchers, scientists, all combining some of the best practices that have
been developed.


HAYES: That`s the president in Senegal yesterday talking about new drought
fighting technologies. We`re talking about President Obama`s trip to
Africa and the timing that puts him there during days that may be the final
ones for former South African President Nelson Mandela.

We`re joined by radio host Esther Armah, John Nichols of "The Nation" and
international journalist, Dayo Olopade. I think there`s an amazing
resonance between the trajectories of Nelson Mandela and Barack Obama.
They are both, obviously, massively historic figures in each of their

And there`s also this sense in which they are both symbolic and historical
figures, but actual leaders who actually had to deal with the world as it
is. So there`s the moment of their ascension, which is this transcendent,
beautiful sublime moment that justifies struggle for decades.

Then there`s the fact that there is the mundane business of government and
all the institutional constraints that means on the day and the day after
that and there`s a senate filibuster and a central bank in South Africa
that doesn`t want to be loose with money and wants unemployment high.

That, to me, is the story, the poetic resonance of these two men`s lives
is precisely that particularly as you consider the ANC 20 years after
Mandela first took over.

OLOPADE: Right, I agree. I think the thing that really joins the two men
is their ability to role model. I think you`re always going to run into
the friction of politics, but I think both have been able to sort of step
forward and enact a vision of leadership that actually has resonance.

And particularly seeing Obama in Africa, I mean, I think the countries
he`s going to, it`s hard to argue he shouldn`t go and see Nelson Mandela
and South Africa and Tanzania and Senegal are both countries that have a
history of democratic governance. It`s important to reward that.

I think Obama`s role modelling could really be in other environments in
the more risky places in the continent that are arguably more important in
terms of economics and in terms of, you know, the trajectory of future

HAYES: Do you think that?

ARMAH: The other thing that I would pick up on is there are very specific
connections between three men actually when it comes to, when we think
about South Africa and the United States. And that is Nelson Mandela,
President Obama, and Martin Luther King.

Specifically insofar as you talk about rights, race, and the power to vote
to create this idea that people who have been disenfranchised and
inhumanity and inferiority has been legislated against.

The vote is much more than a moment in the ballot box, so it roots those
connections squarely in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling that decimates
the voting rights act.

HAYES: He had to give a comment about it on his first stop on this trip.

ARMAH: Exactly. So you`re talking about this moment where for Nelson
Mandela and President Obama, these are two black men who are more than
leaders in their nations. They`re global icons who have particular
attachments to the people and not just the privileged.

Out of that space when you think about the Supreme Court ruling, it`s the
idea that the vote signified that people who had been disenfranchised in a
way they were suddenly belonged to the nation.

HAYES: Of course, Barack Obama has met with protests in South Africa.

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

HAYES: It has a strong left. The train unionists are mad about U.S.
foreign policy. I saw this today. The CIA, did you know this, central
intelligence agency played an important role in the arrest in 1962 of
Nelson Mandela.

Unidentified retired official said there was a senior CIA officer told him
shortly after Mandela`s arrest, we have turned Mandela over to the South
African security branch. We told them every detail what he`d been wearing,
the time of day, just where he would be. Barack Obama comes as a grandson
of Africa, but also the head of the American government.

NICHOLS: There are South Africans sophisticated politically who recognize
that and can work with that. Protests have been sophisticated protests.
Specific issues in the U.S. and internationally. I do think the one thing
to understand about Nelson Mandela is that he really gets all this.

And it is very, very striking that Barack Obama will be meeting with -- I
shouldn`t say -- he might. We don`t know that. He might with a guy who
Dick Cheney voted to keep in jail.

HAYES: Right. That is the trajectory.

NICHOLS: And that wasn`t that long ago because when Dick Cheney was
nominated for vice president, he still talked about well, we did that
because he was a --

HAYES: He sat there at the table. John Edwards looked him in the eye and
said, I`m talking to a guy who wanted to keep Mandela in jail. Radio host,
Esther Armah, John Nichols from "The Nation" and journalist, Dayo Olapade,
thank you so much.

That is ALL IN for this evening on this Friday. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW"
starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.


<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2013 NBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2013 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>

Sponsored links

Resource guide