updated 7/11/2013 10:32:52 AM ET 2013-07-11T14:32:52

ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
July 10, 2013
Guests: Steve Case, Robert Costa, Jelani Cobb, Dorian Warren, Byron Dorgan,
Tyson Slocum, Debbie Dooley


CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Tonight on ALL IN:

The fear factor as the defense rests in the trial of George Zimmerman,
closing arguments set to begin tomorrow. Already, Bill O`Reilly and others
on the right are raising the specter of racial violence. That is coming
up.

Also tonight, the oil train. What went wrong to cause this truly
horrific crash? And the river of fire that`s killed at least 20 people and
absolutely devastated a small town in Quebec.

Plus, the Tea Party in Georgia is all for solar energy, and now
they`re going head to head with the Koch brothers over it. This is not
bizarro world. It`s reality trumping politics. I will have the national
coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots right here coming up.

But we begin tonight with immigration reform on life support, and the
surgeon striding in the ER to save the day is George W. Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, it`s my honor to introduce the 43rd
president of the United States of America.

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the 1790s, an
immigrant from Ireland designed the White House. In the 1990s, 200 years
later, an immigrant from Russia helped create the internet search engine
Google.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former President George W. Bush is front and
center today, weighing in on immigration reform.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s something the former president has
strictly avoided for years, talking about a hot political issue.

BUSH: I don`t intend to get involved in the politics, but I do hope
there is a positive resolution to the debate. I hope during the debate,
that we keep a benevolent spirit in mind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Politico" reports today that top Republicans on
Capitol Hill now predict comprehensive immigration reform will die a slow,
month`s long death in the House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t care what George Bush has to say on
this issue. Most of them represent predominantly white districts. They`re
not thinking about the Hispanic vote or minority vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Senate bill is not going to pass in the House.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: We were betrayed by our
colleagues in the Senate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s like a huge flood in your basement. You run
down and start with a mop while the water`s still pouring in.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Conservative organizations
are running ads now saying Mr. Boehner and Republicans, why don`t you do
something about this?

AD NARRATOR: Call Congress, tell them to support the border surge.

REID: So, I guess I feel sorry for the speaker.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We`re going to have a
discussion about this on July the 10th. We`re going to have a special
conference. We`re going to lay all of this out and listen to what the
members have to say.

REPORTER: What do you expect to hear at this meeting today?

BACHMANN: Hopefully, we`re going to hear that there won`t be amnesty
for illegal aliens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t separate the DREAM Act kids from those
who came across the border with a pack of contraband on their back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made a comment that is kind (INAUDIBLE) trusting
Barack Obama on border security is like trusting my daughter with Bill
Clinton. We just don`t trust him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAYES: Now, you can have fun with George W. Bush, the Republican
Party on this, on immigration reform, they should listen to this guy. They
should listen to his message, which is -- do not commit political suicide
over immigration reform. But it seems as expected, the House Republican
Caucus is intent on doing precisely that.

After today`s meeting, Republican House leadership reaffirmed that
rather than take up the flawed legislation rushed through the Senate, House
committees will continue their work on a step by step common sense
approach.

Not listening to George W. Bush is a big mistake for Republicans,
because you can say a lot of very bad things about him. I certainly have
said most of them. But here`s the things -- the fact remains the man knows
how to win a national election, something the rest of his party hasn`t
quite figured out.

George W. Bush is, of course, the only Republican to win a majority of
the popular vote in any of the last six presidential elections. He did it
once out of two tries, and he did it largely because of this number, which
is how he performed on Hispanic voters in 2004, far higher than any other
Republican in the two elections before or since.

So, George W. Bush entering into the immigration debate on the day the
House Republican Caucus is meeting on the topic, it means something. It
means the battle lines have been drawn. It`s the self-avowed compassionate
conservatives, Bush legacy types and the big business donor class interest
versus a base that is now in full and absolute open revolt, with 11 million
lives hanging in the balance.

Joining me now is entrepreneur Steve Case, co-founder of America
Online, AOL, who is now chairman and CEO of Revolution, investment firm.
He`s backed companies like Living Social and Zip Car. He`s chairman of the
Case Foundation, a philanthropic organization.

And, Steve, I want to get your reaction to the statement that came out
of the House Republican Caucus meeting today. It was not -- well, it was
kind of a passive aggressive document, maybe even openly aggressive.

Here`s a little bit: "The American people want our borders secured,
our laws enforced. But they don`t trust a Democratic-controlled
Washington. They`re alarmed by the president`s ongoing insistence on
enacting a single, massive, ObamaCare-like bill." Blah, blah, we hate you.
We hate your face.

What was your response to that?

STEVE CASE, CHAIRMAN & CEO, REVOLUTION: I thought it was a decent
statement. I think there`s a lot --

(LAUGHTER)

CASE: I`m serious. I`m partially optimistic immigration reform will
pass, it will pass in the next couple months, there`s a desire in the
House, of the people`s house to do it their own way and make sure different
voices are heard and different issues are debated.

The statement to me basically said they take the issue seriously.
They`re not trying to walk away from it. But they want to find their own
path, find their own way. As long as they do that in a rapid kind of
fashion, and fashion their own legislation, and then can conference that
with the Senate, I think we still can get comprehensive immigration reform
passed.

HAYES: OK, that`s an optimistic. You have been very outspoken,
pushing for comprehensive immigration reform. You`re part of a group of
folks from the business community that think this is incredibly important.
I just don`t see how you can square the Democratic red line which, there
has to be a path to citizenship for these people, with what seems to be a
prevailing opinion in the Republican caucus, there doesn`t have to be a
path to citizenship.

And my question for you is, where is the business community on this?

CASE: Well, first of all, I think of Nelson Mandela`s great quote,
"It`s always impossible until it gets done." And I think that`s what the
story of immigration is going to be.

When we start AOL almost 30 years ago, only 3 percent of people
online, people in the Internet never going to be part of every day life.
Now, it is. So, that`s why I bring a kind of an optimistic perspective to
it.

But there are complicated issues. The reason the business community,
not just the tech community but the business community more broadly -- so,
supportive of this, and we want to make sure we win the global battle for
talent. If we`re going to remain the most entrepreneurial, innovative
nation, have a strong economy, create a lot of jobs, we`ve got to win this
battle for talent. And immigration is a key part.

HAYES: So, when you go --

CASE: Some in Washington view immigration a problem we need to solve,
I view it as an opportunity we need to seize and now is the moment.

HAYES: When you go and talk to Republicans about this, and I imagine
you have, because you -- I know you`ve worked with Eric Cantor on a
previous piece of legislation, the Jobs Act, when you talk to them, what do
they say to you? I mean, is this message persuasive? Because it doesn`t
seem like it`s really reaching the House Republican Caucus.

CASE: Well, it actually is perspective. I`m not talking about a
specific conversation with specific people. But, in general, I think there
is a lot of Republican support for doing whatever they can to focus on the
economy, focus on innovations, stimulate entrepreneurship. That is why the
legislation that Eric Cantor championed with the support of President
Obama, the Jumpstarting Our Business Startup Act, passed a year ago, with
broad bipartisan support.

So, I think they do understand the importance of talent. The issues
get more complicated because of the other issues around border security,
path to citizenship. Some of the guest worker programs.

But I think there`s broad agreement, it`s not -- the right way to look
at immigration is not just through the prism of politics, although,
obviously, that`s a focus, or the prism of security, how do you secure the
border or prism of morality, what`s the right thing to do, but also, most
importantly, the prism of economics. And the White House this morning
released a report that I thought was very helpful, really laying the
economy case for comprehensive immigration reform.

That`s what the business community broadly, again, tech communities is
there, but also leaders in agricultural leaders, and hospitality -- they
all want to deal with this issue and they recognize the law. They talk in
Washington for a decade about doing this, but not a lot of action. People
in the community want action, and they want it now.

HAYES: There`s a window for action, we`re going do see how much
influence the business community, which generally has a lot f influence in
the capital. It`s going to be a test in the coming weeks and months.

Steve Case from the Case Foundation -- thank you very much.

CASE: Thank you.

HAYES: Joining me now is Robert Costa, CNBC contributor, Washington
editor for "The National Review", and a reporter who`s as plugged in with
the Republican Caucus as anyone I know.

What is your reaction to both Steve Case`s optimistic take coming out
of the conference today, this statement by Boehner, and your conversation
with folks that were in the meeting, what`s your takeaway?

ROBERT COSTA, CNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I just got here from the capital, I
feel the press gets a case of Steve King fever. There`s a sense that
because the right flank of the Republican Party, especially in the House,
is so vocal, that they`re somehow dominating the debate.

But I really tried to read between the lines to this meeting, and I
heard this from Speaker Boehner. He wants to do something on immigration
reform. Paul Ryan was quite vocal and positive in the meeting about
immigration reform.

So, I don`t think they`re ruling anything out. I don`t think they`re
ruling out a path to legalization. I think this is going to be a long
process, but I won the say it`s dead.

HAYES: That`s very interesting. So, Steve just made the optimistic
case, and I`ve been making the case throughout. And other people said I`m
crazy. I have become less optimistic as I`ve seen Boehner paints himself
more and more into a corner.

You`re now making an optimistic case. I want you to look at this
piece of tape from earlier today. Raul Labrador, who is a Republican, who
is originally part of the group that was hammering out a House bill that
was going to rival the Senate, he walked from that bill. He is an exchange
he had with my colleague, Alex Wagner, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC ANCHOR: You have a bill that was put together by
John McCain and Lindsey Graham and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and you`re
going to blame Democrats?

REP. RAUL LABRADOR (R), IDAHO: Yes, if Chuck Schumer does not accept
a solution from the House, if he says that 80 percent is not good enough
for him, because he wants 100 percent, then it is his fault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: OK. Do Republicans actually believe that they can kill this
or walk away from it, and actually blame the Democrats? Have they
convinced themselves that they are not going to bear the brunt of the wrath
of a lot of angry people in this country if this thing dies?

COSTA: There`s a real political reason to pass immigration reform,
you`ve mentioned the statistic of President Bush`s 2004 margin. But I
think when you look at that exchange with Congressman Labrador, you see
Republicans paralyzed by fear, that the administration and Senate Democrats
are playing a political chess game, and this immigration reform package
coming out of the Senate, with 11 million people becoming new citizens is
going to benefit the Democrats long term.

And that really spooks a lot of Republicans in the House, and that`s
causing a lot of this undercurrent of dissent.

HAYES: So, where is the pressure? You are well-sourced with these
men and women, if you -- if I wanted to pressure the House Republican
Caucus to get something that looks like the senate bill. Let`s just say
crosses the threshold, the path to citizenship for these 11 million people,
what are -- what are they responsive to at this point?

COSTA: I think they`re trying to test the Senate and administration
right now by slow walking immigration reform. If you were Democrat now and
I would put myself in the administration`s shoes, I almost try to play the
House`s game. The House is trying to extend this process, see how far the
administration has said Democrats are willing to go, and get this to
conference, because the whole -- if you`re really on the right or left, and
you support immigration reform, if this can get to a conference committee,
it has a chance, it has life, it just has to get to that point.

HAYES: So, the point is -- you just get something out of that House,
send it to conference and make them vote on that.

Robert Costa from "The National Review" -- thank you so much.

COSTA: Thank you.

HAYES: Coming up, a good FOX News audience is a fearful FOX News
audience, which must be why Bill O`Reilly and others keep raising the awful
specter of racial violence as the trial of George Zimmerman nears an end.
We`ll look at that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: (AUDIO GAP) in two states plowed ahead today with plans
designed to shut down access to abortion.

In North Carolina, Republican Governor Pat McCrory threatened to veto
a bill moving through the state legislature. That`s seen as likely to
force most of the state`s abortion clinics to close their doors.

And within hours of that veto threat, Republicans have ever so
slightly tweaked the anti-abortion measure, insert it into an unrelated
motorcycle safety bill -- I`m not making that up -- and passed it through
committee along party lines, of course.

Meanwhile, as demonstrators descended on Dallas today in a statewide
protest tour. A bill designed to shut down most of that state`s abortion
clinics moved one step closer to becoming law in Texas. The statehouse
gave the bill final approval today, it now heads to the state Senate --
where Senator Wendy Davis, the Democrat who successfully filibustered it to
defeat the special session, It admit she won`t be able to stop it this time
around.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE SEN. WENDY DAVIS (D), TEXAS: Clearly with so many days left in
the second special session, filibustering the bill would require a super
human feat that none of us is capable of, unfortunately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: The Senate is expected to take up and pass the bill within the
week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Today, the defense rested in the case of the trial of George
Zimmerman, who is charged with second degree murder in the killing of
Trayvon Martin. The prosecution`s closing argument will be tomorrow and
the defense`s will be Friday. Mr. Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty,
claiming self-defense.

And we learned at day`s end that the defendant will not take the stand
just a few hours before an obligatory set of questions from Judge Debra
Nelson turned into a tense exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE DEBRA NELSON, SEMINOLE COUNTY, FL: Have you made a decision as
to whether or not you want to testify?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your Honor, I object to --

NELSON: OK, overruled.

Have you made a decision as to whether or not you testify in this
case?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I object to that question. I think that`s -- Mr.
Zimmerman --

NELSON: Overruled, the court is entitled to inquire from Mr.
Zimmerman`s determination as to whether or not he wants to testify.

Mr. Zimmerman, have you made a decision as to whether or not you want
to testify in this case?

GEORGER ZIMMERMAN, MURDER DEFENDANT: No, not at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I object to the court inquiring to Mr. Zimmerman
about whether or not to testify --

NELSON: Your objection is overruled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: The trial truly entered its final act today, including both
the defense and prosecution`s use of a life-sized pliable foam dummy, while
questioning Dennis Root, a former law enforcement officer. Mr. Root was
called by the defense as an expert on the use of force.

The final witness for the defense was the defendant`s father, George
Zimmerman, Sr., testifying that the screams on the 911 tape were his son.

But outside the courtroom, another narrative has been developing.

A right wing troupe about the specter of racial violence, here`s part
of Bill O`Reilly`s talking points memo from last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Among African-Americans themselves, black
come out as a top racist group. Thirty-one percent of African-Americans
say their own race heads the list.

The only thing the American press will embrace is the specter of
oppression. That is if a white American kills a black American, or any
other minority, then the story gets covered.

No question the Zimmerman trial is now a racial deal rather than a
justice deal. And if George Zimmerman is acquitted by a jury of five white
women and a Hispanic lady, it will be racial animus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: A pernicious planting of the expectation of racial violence,
just as the right wing Web site, Breitbart.com, blared the headline,
"Broward County sheriff`s office prepares Zimmerman verdict riot plan",
based upon what would come and be considered responsible preparations for a
high-profile, televised trial.

Joining me now is Jelani Cobb, associate professor of history,
director of the Institute for African-American Studies at the University of
Connecticut.

Jelani, it`s great to have you here.

So, here`s what frustrates -- angers me genuinely about this, is what
conservatives are doing to black people writ large is precisely what George
Zimmerman did to Trayvon Martin.

JELANI COBB, HISTORY PROFESOR: That`s right.

HAYES: They are suspected of being disposed to violence in some kind
of natural (ph) way, more than other races. They are judged guilty before
they do anything.

COBB: Yes, I think it would be a marvelous bit of irony if they were
that clever. And also, I should say very quickly, about the graphic about
31 percent of African-Americans believing our own group is the most racist.
That poll is done by the same people who brought you President Romney.

HAYES: That`s right.

COBB: So, that tells you the reliability of this.

But I think they are trafficking in the same idea. And I think in
some ways, it makes perfect sense because we wouldn`t be here were it not
for the laws, and some of the laws that really predicated upon this sense
of fear of criminals and specifically black and brown people.

HAYES: What do you mean by that?

COBB: And so, when we look at Mr. Zimmerman who`s been the emphasis
people had here for good reason, but he -- how do we get to this situation.
This is a product, in the same way that maybe Newtown is a product of
liberalizing gun laws --

HAYES: Right.

COBB: -- we don`t get to the situation with Trayvon Martin without
"Stand Your Ground". It`s a natural byproduct of having laws that really
make proactive self-defense.

And so when we -- we look at how we got here, they`re saying, well,
the NRA created this culture of fear, tapped into this culture of fear, and
now, we don`t know whether or not it`s actually legal to --

HAYES: That`s right. It`s the same fear that -- it`s so clear. I
mean, we see it every day on FOX. You see it on the Drudge Report. It`s
this ability to reach into the deepest brainstem activity of the fear
impulse, and it`s the same thing that drives the NRA, this paranoid vision
of the moment when racial violence happens, when Nat Turner is at your
door, right? That that is the thing that is being tapped into, even in
preparation, even though the fact that George Zimmerman is on trial is the
product of an incredibly disciplined, totally nonviolent protest movement
that happened in Florida.

COBB: Absolutely. And the specter of violence is even more shocking
considering the fact that people -- when they first saw this, there were 44
days in which people didn`t believe there would be any arrest.

HAYES: There was no specter of justice.

COBB: There`s no belief.

You know, the other thing here is, that riots and unrest tends to
happen when people expect one outcome and they get something else. I don`t
think people expect for there to be a conviction in this case, or people
are at least prepared to accept the idea or recognize the idea there may
well be an acquittal.

HAYES: I think people have kind of priced that in as it were.

Jelani Cobb from the University of Connecticut -- thanks so much.
Really appreciate it.

COBB: Thank you.

HAYES: Walmart`s about to get into a smackdown with Washington, D.C.
I`ll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: The country`s largest private employer dared Washington D.C.
lawmakers to call their bluff today. Just 24 hours before a key vote,
executives and lobbyists from Walmart issued the following threat to D.C.
council members -- try to force us to pay our employees a living wage and
we will not build stores in the district.

The council was going to pass a living wage bill. Walmart was going
to pack up and go home, promising to cancel plans for at least three of six
stores planned for the district.

At least one lawmaker said it felt like Walmart was sticking, quote,
"guns to council members heads."

Still, the D.C. council held their ground and voted 8-5 this afternoon
to require retailers with corporate sales $1 billion or more and operating
in spaces 75,000 square feet or larger to pay their employees no less than
$12.50 an hour.

Now, that is still not a ton of money. We`re talking about $26,000 a
year in a town that is among the top ten most expensive places in the
country.

Given that Walmart is one of the most profitable companies on the
planet, paying its D.C. workers a few dollars more than the prevailing
minimum wage will probably amount to nothing more than a rounding error.

But eight votes still leaves the council one vote short of being able
to override a potential veto by D.C. Mayor Vincent Gray, who pushed Walmart
to plan stores for his own underserved neighbor. In a statement, Mr. Gray
said, "I strongly urge the council to consider whether this legislation
will actually promote strong economic development in the district and
expand job opportunities for district residents."

In other words, he`s afraid the bill would drive business, the Walmart
out of D.C., which is precisely the case almost seven years ago when
Walmart pulled the same stunt in Chicago ago. The city council passed a
similar living wage bill in 2006. Walmart threatened to cancel plans to
open several new stores in the city, and Mayor Richard Daley vetoed the
bill.

Let`s be clear, this has nothing to do with Walmart`s balance sheet.
This is about Walmart`s raw assertion of power. The notion that Walmart
can pay their workers whatever they want and dare anyone to tell them
otherwise.

That`s why moments after the D.C. council voted to stick to their
guns, Walmart announced they would be canceling plans for three stores in
D.C.

Joining me now is Dorian Warren, an assistant professor at the
department of political science in the school of international and public
affairs at Columbia University. He`s specialized in the study of
inequality of American politics.

And, Dorian, this was the issue you studied. This Walmart fight in
Chicago, it is eerie, I was in Chicago reporting on it at the time. I was
working in Chicago as a reporter covering this fight. It is eerie, eerie,
eerie how similar this fight is to that one.

DORIAN WARREN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Yes, Chris, it is eerie, and I
wish I could have bet on this in Vegas somewhere. This is Walmart`s
playbook.

And let me be frank about this -- this is out of Walmart`s playbook
for how they treat black communities and their elected officials. We saw
this in Chicago in 2006 as you mentioned, where they made explicit threats
about a $10 an hour living wage. Mayor Daley vetoed that and, by the way,
that was his first and only veto in 22 years in office.

HAYES: Yes, that`s the best part about it. The council basically all
they did was Daly`s bidding. They were this like ridiculous rubber stamp
body. They got motivated on this one thing to buck them. And they were
vetoed.

WARREN: And they were -- right. And he was able to twist some arms
so that they couldn`t override the veto.

So, what was Walmart worried about in that case, the precedent that
that kind of bill would set, that other municipalities, where it has to
seek expansion, it has to open stores in urban America, urban America that
it`s avoided for 30 years.

It has to expand in these neighborhoods. This is also, just to give
you more context. We saw the same thing in 2003 in Englewood, California,
when that city council decided to pass some rules and regulations. Walmart
didn`t like it then either, they went to the voters and actually lost a
campaign, spent over a million dollars trying to win exemptions from all
the rules and regulations in the state of California.

HAYES: This expansion into urban areas, here`s the big question,
right, who`s got the leverage? Which is to say, Walmart thinks they got
the leverage because the people of D.C. and Chicago want the jobs. And
right now, what you`re seeing is the amazing animation of Walmart stores as
they proliferate across the country in the history of Walmart.

But Walmart is basically saturated all the non-urban areas in America.
If they want to grow, they have to penetrate these areas. And it seems
like Chicago or D.C. could hold the cards, but they`re not willing to call
Walmart`s bluff.

WARREN: You know, it`s rare when ordinary people have leverage over
one of the most powerful corporations in the world. Just in that hour of
debate today, the CEO of Walmart made $11,000, in that hour of debate on
that bill. Walmart CEO has the largest worker to CEO ratio of the Fortune
100 companies.

And so, this is a powerful company, and this is a moment when every
day people and residents have some leverage to say, no, you`re not going to
come into our community on your terms.

HAYES: I`ve been to the west side Wal-Mart in Chicago that got built
after the mayor vetoed it. I`ve been there on a Saturday, it`s packed.
I`ve seen the folks from the west side of Chicago who have jobs there who
didn`t have jobs before. There are a lot folks on the west side of Chicago
who are shopping there because their prices are low. I don`t know, if you
did a survey, whether they would say they`re sorry that Wal-Mart ca in.
What do you say to that?

WARREN: I agree with you. I think as consumers where there are
existing businesses, people love Wal-Mart. If you ask the workers in those
stores, you`ll get a different answer. Because Wal-Mart`s pitch to urban
America is, we`re going to create quality jobs for you, in places of high
unemployment. We know that`s not the case.

They have policy of not only hiring temporary workers. They`re not
hiring people full time any more. Those that want to work full time, they
don`t give them enough hours because they don`t want to pay for health
insurance. Third, they claim they pay an average hourly wage of $12.78.
If that were true, $12.50 wouldn`t be a problem. We know they pay roughly
in the $8 to $9 range and they want to keep it that way.

HAYES: Dorian Warren from Columbia University, thanks so much.

WARREN: Thank you, Chris.

HAYES: We`ll be right back with Click 3.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: There is a fascinating intra-conservative fight going on in
the great state of Georgia right now in which we find a Tea Party leader
accusing a Koch funded national conservative group of distortions and
deception. You will not believe the issue that`s causing this rift.
That`s coming up.

First I want to show you the three awesomest things on the internet
today. Beginning with some tough times for a former teen dream, Justin
Bieber has been having a rough time at ladies lately. Earlier this year,
he abandoned his pet monkey at a German airport. His latest offense can be
best explained by this headline, "Justin Bieber Caught On Tape Urinating In
A Restaurant Mop Bucket Shouting About Bill Clinton." The evidence was
obtained by TMZ, of course, here is the Bieb and his entourage.

That purportedly was the Bieber himself spraying glass cleaner over
the picture of former President Bill Clinton to which legions of
Clintonistas the world over responded how dare you. New York magazine
floated a few theories as to why Bieber is not a fan of Bubba.
Possibilities included NAFTA and Clinton`s chumminess with Bieber`s mentor
Usher. Now Chelsea Clinton has weighed in and agrees it`s definitely
NAFTA. Perhaps no surprising at all, the fact that Justin Bieber was able
to correctly identify Bill Clinton.

The second awesomest thing on the internet today, some leftover swag
finds a good home. Two sets of merchandise are produced, each team gets
its own set of t-shirts and hats declaring them the champions, but of
course, there can only be one winner. The losing team`s apparel is then
donated to an aid organization that ships the items to countries where new
clothing is not only welcome but needed.

In the spirit of 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1994, almost but not quite Super
Bowl champs the Buffalo Bills, these kids in Kenya are now sporting
Romney/Ryan 2012 campaign wear. As Buzzfeed reports, Cindy Waters asked
the campaign to donate t-shirts and hats to her group. The organization
helps out orphaned kids. And Miss Waters says the t-shirts are a blessing.
Lemons into lemonade.

And the third awesomest thing on the internet today two amazing
escapes from charging predators caught on tape. Tourists captured this
herd of impalas trying to escape, a pair of cheetahs are on their tail and
one little guy gets left behind. Fortunately, he has an escape route.

Yes, that is a cheetah`s lunch jumping into someone`s jeep. There was
no parked Toyota for Rex Ryan to jump into when he decided to go running
with the bulls in Pamplona, Spain. Now, Deadspin has video of the Jets
coach mounting a barricade to avoid the wrath of one pissed off bull. It`s
a macho activity, but in reality it`s absolutely pee your pants terrifying
for all parties involved including the bulls.

You can find all the links for tonight`s Click 3 on our web site,
allinwithchris.com. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: That video was taken early Saturday morning by a resident in
Lac-Magantic in Quebec, Canada. The blasts were from a runaway oil train.
Fifty people are dead or still missing with 20 confirmed deaths. In a town
that on Friday looked like this, but now looks like this. Around 30
buildings were destroyed, about 2,000 residents forced from their homes.

Canadian officials watched a probe to figure out why this train was
speeding out of control for nearly 7 miles. The 73 cars on the train, 72
of them were carrying oil. Before it derailed the train was rolling
through the dark without anyone knowing. Residents had barely any time to
react. One man who was in a popular bar downtown said he would have
incinerated if he had stayed 30 seconds longer.

It was moving at a hellish speed, no lights, no signals, nothing at
all. There was no warning. It was a black blob that came out of nowhere.
The terrifying nature of this event has bolstered the argument of those who
support moving oil by pipeline instead of by rail. But although this took
place in Canada, this was not Canadian Tarzan`s oil that could be moved by
a pipeline.

This was oil that came from a Bakken shale formation, an oil bonanza
discovered n the northern United States. It is now such an integral part
of U.S. oil production it`s cluster of refineries can be seen from space in
an area that was baron just six years ago. The public safety impact of
Bakken oil, which is produced by fracking process has not shared the
spotlight with its high profile economic explosion.

North Dakota boasts the lowest unemployment rate in the country. The
oil boom helping the state`s economy grew five times faster than the rest
of the country. The Bakken shale represents a vision of American oil
independence, a transformational development in energy economics. As we
see this week, to the north, it poses risks that are as mighty as its
rewards.

Joining me now is former Senator Byron Dorgan, a Democrat from North
Dakota, who is chairman of the Senate committee and subcommittees on the
issues of energy, aviation, appropriations, water, policy and affairs, now
a senior fellow of the Bipartisan Policy Center. He`s written a new book
called "Gridlock of Thriller Novel," which is an oxymoronic play on words.
We are joined by Tyson Slocum, Director of Public Citizens Energy Program.
Public Citizen is a non-profit organization and advocates in Washington,
D.C. on behalf of citizens.

Senator, let me begin with you. The Bakken boom, which is the oil
that ended up in this town that I never heard of in Canada, blew it to
smithereens. It is just transformed your state. It`s completely
transformed your state. Do we have the regulatory infrastructure in place
to deal with the explosion that we have seen in oil coming up the Bakken
reserve?

FORMER SENATOR BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: Well, first of all,
it`s not just the Bakken, it`s the natural gas, it`s a national phenomenon,
and it`s good news in the sense that we`re producing oil here at home.
This is a description of why you need effective regulatory authority. You
need people that are accountable. You need best practices. We`ve gone
through a period of time where we hear people say get the government off
our back, deregulate everything. The images you showed on the screen which
shows why you need effective regulatory oversight.

HAYES: One of the things that`s happening in fracking broadly is that
the technology is moving quickly. The business is moving quickly, the
regulatory framework is not moving as quickly.

TYSON SLOCUM, PUBLIC CITIZEN: There are still concerns of pollution
of water sources with fracking, but with the big deal in North Dakota is
while we`re moving tons and tons of oil. Ten years ago, North Dakota was
producing 80,000 barrels of oil a day. Today it`s producing 800,000 barrels
of oil a day, 75 percent of that is moving by rail. It`s also seen an
explosion in natural gas production from fracking.

And 30 percent of 850 million cubic feet of gas produced in North
Dakota is being flared off, it`s being burned off at the well head, which
is a major issue for emissions of all sorts of pollutants including
greenhouse gases. What we`re seeing here is the shale revolution is
leading to congested rail lines to move oil to fuel cars in uncongested
streets. We have to look for more sustainable solutions.

HAYES: The sustainable solution and folks will tell you. This is a
different problem because it`s tar sands. The keystone pipeline, which
isn`t come out of the Bakken, but the keystone pipeline, it`s better than
moving it by rail, right?

DORGAN: Well, there are two issues here. We can come back to the
issue of hydraulic fracturing, which we`ve done for 50 years or so --

HAYES: Never on this scale.

DORGAN: Not on this scale. Nothing approaching this scale, but in
the Bakken and North Dakota we`re down 10,000 feet. It`s not as if we`re
not going to produce our oil and gas, we are, the question is how do we
produce it with what kind of regulatory oversight? When we produce it in
an area like the Bakken or the natural gas areas in east, the question is,
how do we transport it, by pipe, by rail? Because we`re going to transport
it to places where oil can be refined and it`s critically important, we do
that with public safety in mind. With effective regulators who are out
there making certain regulations.

HAYES: You said something that I think is the conventional wisdom in
Washington, it`s all going to come out of the ground. We`re going to get
the stuff that`s in there. It`s going to come out. Do you agree with
that?

SLOCUM: I do not. First, on the debate versus rail versus pipeline,
it is true that by volume there are more incidents by rail, but yes --

HAYES: Yes, this thing -- I have to say, I am agnostic on this,
whatever the safety data suggests. Watching a town blown leveled -- I
mean, destroyed, blown to smithereens makes me painfully acutely aware of
moving this rail, which is happening right now as we`re talking.

SLOCUM: Remember, the incidents with pipelines can be much larger on
a volume basis when there is rapture like the Pegasus line in Arkansas.
The Calamazoo spill in Michigan, the Yellowstone River spill in Montana and
those were devastating. We`re still pulling tar sands oil out of the
Calamazoo River. Moving by pipeline isn`t necessarily the solution.

HAYES: The argument on the other side is, it`s good for the country.
It`s jobs, everything we do has risks, we drive cars around, we lose tens
of thousands of people a year to car accidents.

DORGAN: We were importing almost 60 percent of oil we need. One out
of every barrel of oil -- one out of every eight barrels of oil that comes
out of the ground in the world goes out of a pickup truck or car in
America. I`m a big supporter of electric vehicles using natural gas,
hydrogen fuel celled vehicles. I do say this again. We`re going to
produce the natural gas and the oil in this country. When you do it
safely, effectively, with best practices, it`s good for the country. This
is a good news story.

HAYES: The people promoting alternative energy are n just the usual
suspects, I should say. Up next, I`m going to introduce you to someone who
is leading the charge for solar energy, also happens to lead the Tea Party
Patriots. She`ll tell us about her efforts and why they`re being attacked
by the very people who help fund the Tea Party.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: News this week out of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the U.S. is
regularly forced feeding dozens of prisoners, a prison spokesman announcing
this week that officials will take special care to time those prisoners
force feedings so as not to interfere with the traditional daylight fasting
of Ramadan.

Quote, "We understand that observing the daytime fast and taking
nothing by mouth or vein is an essential component of Muslim observance of
Ramadan. Internal feeding refers to the practice of strapping prisoners to
chairs and forcibly shoving tubes up their noses and down their throats.
We`re still going to do that, but we`re going to make special schedule in
scheduling times when we do that. The rest of the world will not be
faulted for wanting us to understand that the road to hell is paved with
good intentions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: In Georgia, a vote is expected tomorrow on whether the state`s
largest electricity provider needs to expand its use of solar energy. The
proposal has support in places you might not expect. Leaders of Atlanta`s
Tea Party are pushing for the solar expansion as a matter of free market
choice.

Despite the Tea Party support, a political group founded by Charles
and David Koch wants regulators to reject the new solar plan. That group
is Americans for Prosperity, which launched a multimedia offensive this
week, including an e-mail saying, utility bills are as high as 40 percent
higher on average. That`s a claim the Associated Press reports is
misleading.

Joining me now is Debbie Dooley, national coordinator for the Tea
Party Patriots and o-founder of the Atlanta Tea Party, still with me at the
table, former Senator Byron Dorgan, Democrat from North Dakota and Tyson
Slocum, director of Public Citizens Energy Program. Debbie, what is this
fight about to expand solar, and why are you as a Tea Party activist
engaged in it?

DEBBIE DOOLEY, TEA PARTY PATRIOTS: Well, we believe, and we care
about our environment we just believe things should be done in a
conservative way. We want to give consumers a choice. This solar plan
will not have to be subsidized and we believe that this giant utility
monopoly deserves some competition, and consumers deserve a choice. It`s
just that simple.

HAYES: This is music to my ears. I think this is where you and I can
agree about monopolies because when we talk about the energy market. We
are not talking about anything that looks anything like a free market.
It`s not the market for cars, shoes, soda, in Georgia, you have one company
controlling your electricity and consumers have no say in where that
electricity comes from.

DOOLEY: You are absolutely correct. And our stance on this show us
in the constitution where government can pick winners and losers, and where
the government can set up a monopoly and be an impediment to the free
market. We believe it`s wrong. That is an issue we are also going to be
tackling this next legislative session. We will be asking legislators to
overturn the territorial right act of 1973 that allowed these monopolies to
take place.

HAYES: How do you feel about the Koch brothers coming in and spending
a lot of money and going after your group for pushing for this solar
expansion?

DOOLEY: Well, as long as AFP Georgia is honest with the information
we don`t have a problem with that. We get along with AFP on most issues,
in all families, you`re like siblings. You`re going to have your squabbles
where you disagree. But AFP Georgia is putting out absolutely false
information. They`re taking data from two years ago, three years ago,
saying solar is too expensive, it has to be subsidized. The bottom line is,
solar parts have plummeted since 2008. They have dropped in some areas,
almost 75 percent. It can give consumers a choice and protect the
environment.

HAYES: Debbie, I want to go to Tyson for context about this. We have
a situation where solar is plummeting and utilities get to control where
they`re sourcing their power, right?

SLOCUM: Right. In addition to that, if you`re -- in the utility
business, your job is to sell electricity to homes and businesses. The
last thing you want is for homes and businesses to become independent power
generators by putting solar panels on their roofs. So southern company,
it`s in their financial interest to block efforts to make buildings and
individuals and businesses energy independent. But we need to, the
technology is there, and even if a household can`t afford to buy expensive
solar panels, there are so many companies out there where you can lease the
panels.

HAYES: No upfront costs.

SLOCUM: And it`s cheaper on your utility.

HAYES: I want to hammer this home, Debbie, I think it`s key to your
objection. Our power that we plug into is centralized in this country,
centralized utility. And it means the political power is centralized
utilities. The radical promise of solar power is decentralizing that
power. So that southern company isn`t just controlling the power people
are controlling their own faith in power.

DORGAN: If we want more clean and renewable energy, we need to do
something about it. 30 states have knees renewable standards. Good for
them, there`s no heroes. There`s no saying, if you don`t care where you
are, you`re never going to be lost. Well --

DOOLEY: And the bottom line.

DORGAN: The states need to make choices about what kind of future
they want. Debbie`s right about this. There should be renewable energy
standards.

DOOLEY: I disagree with that, but I do believe that in Georgia, we
can show where groups from the left and right are putting our differences
aside. We support coal, we support nuclear, but we believe in
diversification of our energy portfolio. I`m a grandmother, I care about
my grandson`s future, and our world is using more and more energy every
day. We have to look for the future and make sure we have an ample energy
supply. In Georgia, we found a conservative way to do it, and it`s brought
together people on the left and right. We are forming what we call a green
tea coalition.

HAYES: I like it. I like green tea, and I like the green tea
coalition. I`m going to be voting you on with the big vote this week.
Debbie Dooley from the Tea Party Patriots, former Senator Byron Dorgan, and
Tyson Slocum from Public Citizens, pleasure to have you here. That is ALL
IN for this evening, the "RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good
evening, Rachel.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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