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All In With Chris Hayes, Monday, July 29th, 2013

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July 29, 2013
Guests: William Barber, Larry Hall, Angela Bryant, Tom Perriello, Matt
Welch, Kareem Starks, Gregory Reynoso, Tsedeye Gebreselassi

CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Tonight on ALL IN:

Workers are walking out at major fast food chains in multiple states.
There is a real movement to increase wages across the country, and those
workers are he tonight.

Also, it turns out the new pope says gay priests are fine with him.
And progressive Catholics the world over are swooning.

Plus, pull up a seat and get your popcorn. Rand Paul versus Chris
Christie has turned into a full-on battle royal, complete with
congressional flunkies choosing sides and jumping into the ring.

But we begin tonight in North Carolina where Republican Governor Pat
McCrory made history a few hours ago. McCrory just signed an antiabortion
bill that is designed to severely restrict access to reproductive services
in the state. And he signed that bill despite making this campaign pledge
at a 2012 gubernatorial debate.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re elected governor, what further
restrictions on abortion would you agree to sign? Start with you, Mr.





HAYES: Ha. In case you forgot, the bill the governor just signed,
despite making that crystal clear promise, less than a year ago, was
originally attached to an anti-Sharia law bill, and it was finally jammed
through by being attached to a motorcycle safety bill.

The governor is also poised to make good on his pledge to sign one of
the most restrictive voting rights bills in the nation. A bill that he,
himself, admits, of Friday, he had not read.


MCCRORY: I don`t know enough -- I`m sorry, I haven`t seen that part
of the bill.


HAYES: That was governor being asked about a specific provision of
that voter restriction bill that eliminates preregistration for 16-year-
olds and 17-year-olds that he was apparently unfamiliar with. And keep in
mind that question was asked less than five minutes after the governor said
he would be signing the law.


MCCRORY: The second bill that I will sign is the voter ID law. I
said it in 2008, and I said it again in 2012 that I think it makes common
sense to show an ID when to vote.


HAYES: Since the governor is apparently unfamiliar with the law he`s
pledged to sign, let me take a moment to educate him. Not only will North
Carolina`s voter ID bill end preregistration for 16-year-old and 17-year-
olds who now can register to vote before they turn 18, it slashes the early
voting period in half which has, as far as I can tell, absolutely nothing
to do with ID or alleged fraud. It eliminates same-day voter registration,
requires voters to show a government-issued ID, ends straight-ticket voting
and also ends Sunday voting, the rationale for which I cannot define.

The voting restriction bill the governor has pledged to sign and the
abortion bill the governor just did sign, those are just two bills that
give you a taste of the radical experiment going down in North Carolina.

Right-wing assault that has produced Moral Mondays, the most
significant concerted civil disobedience campaign anywhere in the country.
This was the scene this afternoon as thousands of people marched to the
state capitol for the 11th Moral Monday, the last of the legislative

Steadily, week after week, spurred by the all-out assault on voting
rights, abortion rights and economic stability of North Carolinians, people
have gathered in the capitol to make their voices heard and in many cases
to get arrested. More than 900 people have been arrested participating in
Moral Monday protests since April.

The Republican governor and legislature have been remarkably
successful in jamming through their legislative agenda. But in doing so,
they may have just created the movement that will prove to be their

Joining me from North Carolina tonight, Democratic North Carolina
State Senator Angela Bryant; Reverend William Barber, president of the
North Carolina state conference of the NAACP, who has been leading the
Moral Monday protests; and Representative Larry Hall, Democratic leader in
the North Carolina House of Representatives.

Thank you, all, for joining us.

Reverend, I want to begin with you.

Republicans of your state, the governor, Governor McCrory, the
Republican leadership, right now if they`re watching this broadcast,
they`re thinking to themselves, we got these bills signed, we pushed
through our agenda. Sure, we took some hits in the press for us. Sure,
there are these people squawking on our lawn, but we win and they lose.

Why are they not right about that?

REV. WILLIAM BARBER, NC NAACP: Well, they`re on the wrong side of
history. Since we`ve been gathered these 13 Moral Mondays, less than one
out of five North Carolinians now agree with them. The numbers have
plummeted. The governor`s numbers have plummeted.

They have been labeled as immoral. They`re not even Republicans.
These are not moderate Republicans.

They have attacked the sick. They`ve attacked women. They`ve
attacked children. They`ve attacked the poor. They`ve attacked the gay
community. They`ve attacked people of faith. They`ve attacked workers and
that attack has brought us together.

Thousands of people, like you would never expect, in the South where
normally these wedge issues divide us, have come together across racial
lines, across color lines, across class lines, across income lines and we
are mobilizing like never before. You will see the biggest fight that
you`ve ever seen since the 1960s.

HAYES: Representative Hall, my question to you is, what does this new
voting restriction bill mean in concrete terms for the citizens of the
state of North Carolina? And also for, frankly, the Democratic Party?

STATE REP. LARRY HALL (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, Chris, we call it
the voter intimidation vilification act and it`s one that discourages
people from voting, limits the time they have to vote, and more importantly
limits their ability to register to vote. That`s the key.

Three hundred thousand North Carolinians don`t have the proper ID now
in order to be able to vote. This is going to discourage people from
showing up at the polls.

One of the most heinous things they have in this bill, it allows
people who live in the county who don`t have any idea who votes in
precincts across the county to be able to come and challenge people and
prevent them from voting without being put under a microscope and being
intimidated by the elections officials.

HAYES: Wait, anyone can just show up at a polling place and challenge

HALL: If they`re appointed by the party chairman for their county,
they don`t have to have any familiarity with the precinct they go to. They
can go and have voters challenged by the election officials at that

BARBER: And, Chris --


BARBER: That`s exactly what they`re doing is so bad because it`s a
crime against democracy. It`s not just a black issue or white issue. Not
even just a Democrat/Republican issue. But they are literally creating
crimes against democracy and attacking our most fundamental value and
people in this state are deserved (ph), they`re prodded, they`re fed up and
they`re working like never before to organize.

HAYES: Senator Bryant, let any ask you about this about the abortion
bill signed today by the governor. I`m somewhat amazed that he has --
thinks he can get away with such an obvious "180" on this. I mean, we can
play that tape. I wonder if that tape is being played in the North
Carolina media.

Are you surprised by how shameless this appears to be?

surprised. When you look at the smokescreen-type legislation and the
duplicity in their political strategy, I`m not surprised. Just as they`re
saying the voting bill is about integrity, they`re claiming that this
abortion bill is about protecting women because their strategy to restrict
our right to reproductive health care is illegal and unconstitutional.

So, of course, they can`t admit that. So they are now claiming it`s
about protecting us. There`s nothing in this bill that protects us. It
restricts our access to insurance.

It restricts -- provides one of the most broad, conscious provisions
there is in the country. Even a janitor or receptionist can refuse to
provide services to a woman who is needing health care as a result of an
abortion, even in an emergency. So this is not about protecting women.
It`s about restricting our access to reproductive health care and that, of
course, is illegal and unconstitutional. So, they have to couch it in
other kinds of terms.

HAYES: Reverend, so this has been -- there have been 13 Moral
Mondays. This is 13th. The final this legislative session, I think I
misspoke before about the number.

The question is, they go into recess. What is next for this movement?

BARBER: Moral Monday goes home behind them. They run home, so we`re
going home. We`re going to take Moral Mondays on the road.

The first one is August the 5th in Asheville Mountain Moral Monday.
Then, we`re going to do Coastal Moral Monday.

On August 24th, we`re coming to D.C. And August the 28th, we`re doing
13 gatherings and protests and rallies and organizing in the 13
congressional districts of the 13 congressperson in their 13 hometown.

What these folk have done is constitutionally inconsistent morally,
irresponsible and economically insane, Chris. It is just so, so backwards,
and they`ve hurt so many people that it`s actually brought us together --
not for a moment, don`t mistake, this is not momentary hyperventilation.
This is a movement.

In the South, when you see blacks and whites and people of faith and
people of little faith, and labor and educators and gay and straight, all
coming together and no longer allowing the white southern strategy to
divide us, you can bet there`s a movement afoot in North Carolina. We
believe it`s going to spread across the South.

HAYES: Here`s my question for you, Representative Hall. This is the
final question here, and, Senator Bryant, if you want to answer this as
well. I have heard from Moral Monday protesters I`ve spoken to, and I do
not count Reverend Barber among them, frustration with the state Democratic

They felt like the state Democratic Party was being steamrolled by the
Republican Party and there was no opposition. They were not concerted
enough in fighting them and that the Moral Mondays arose to fill a vacuum.

I`m curious what you think about that and if your strategy changes now
going forward?

HALL: Well, our strategy certainly changes going forward because we
have more North Carolinians who understand the issues. The Democratic
Party has been fighting, and if you look the votes that were taken on the
"voter vilification intimidation act," as we call it, if you look at the
votes that were taken on that, as well as votes that were taken later in
the session, you`ll see that the Democrats in the House of Representatives
are together and we are moving forward.

Now, we have North Carolinians await. This administration basically
came to power on a bait and switch strategy, so it doesn`t surprise us that
they lie. They said they were going to create votes for -- excuse me, jobs
for North Carolina. They said that was their purpose and that`s what they
do. The session is over, they haven`t created not one job.

And so we`re going to move forward to replace them and get people back
in power who really believe in the future of North Carolina and they`ll
take us forward.

BRYANT: Chris, the genius of this movement that Reverend Barber has
led is the moral and -- the moral focus and the faith-based focus. It has
brought together people who haven`t even been paying attention to

I`ve got e-mails from people who say, I`ve never paid attention to t
legislature, and as a result of Moral Mondays, I`m listening to the debates
on the Internet, on the live stream on the Internet. I`m coming up here
every week.

So, this is a broader tent than we`ve ever had before.

HAYES: Iron role of state legislatures is that if you don`t y
attention to them, they will get up to no good.

State Senator Angela Bryant, Reverend William Barber from North
Carolina NAACP, and State Representative Larry Hall -- thank you, all.

The reputation of the last pope was as a guy who was a bit judgey
which probably is why this pope is making headlines around the world for
the simple phrase, "Who am I to judge?" That`s next.


HAYES: On Friday night in our discussion of statistics about race and
crime, I mistakenly inverted two numbers. In situations in which we know
the race of the offender in a murder which is a relatively small subset, 14
percent of white victims were killed by black offenders in 2010, while 8
percent of black victims were killed by white offenders. On Friday, I said
the reverse.

But never fear, white America, because we also overestimated the
number of white murder victims killed by black assailants in total.
According to data from the FBI, as far as we know, there were only 447
white victims killed by black offenders in 2010. That is in a country of
over 200 million white people.



HAYES: At least 3 million people packed Copacabana Beach in Rio de
Janeiro yesterday to celebrate the final mass of Pope Francis` visit to
Brazil and to hear him tell followers, they must be, quote, "a disciple
with a mission. They must spread the gospel to the fringiest of society,
because there are no borders, no limits to what you`re called upon to do."

It was on the plane, on the way back from Rio when Pope Francis proved
he was doing things a bit differently than his predecessor by taking a
notably compassionate stand towards gay priests. When asked by a member of
the press about so-called gay lobby inside the church, he said, "When I
meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being
part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to
judge them? They shouldn`t be marginalized. The tendency is not the
problem. They are our brothers."

This statement is just latest rhetorical and symbolic break with
Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI who stepped town in February, a man who
once wrote a Vatican document that called from banning from the priesthood,
men who are actively homosexual, have deep-seeded homosexual tendencies or
support the so-called gay culture.

Since becoming pope, Francis has been known for his simplicity and
emphasis on progressive calls for more social justice and the dignity of a
living wage.

As a lefty, raised in the church, myself, I have to say, at least once
a week, I find myself saying, "I really like this guy."

Joining me now is former Congressman Tom Perriello, Democrat from
Virginia. He`s now president and CEO of the Center for American Progress
Action Fund. Before Congress, he also helped launch several advocacy
groups, including Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good and Catholics

Great to have you here, Tom.

for having me.

HAYES: So, I wanted to talk -- I immediately wanted to talk to you
about this because you and I had conversations about sort of progressives
in the Catholic Church and our interesting, tense relationship with the
church. And were you surprised by these comments by Pope Francis?

PERRIELLO: In many ways, no. I think the two groups you`re most
likely to hear the word humility from are political leaders and religious
leaders. They`re the two groups least likely to mean it.

I think with this pope, we`re constantly impressed regardless of his
theological positions that this is someone whose first impulse is to love.
His first impulse is to be humble and not judge. He`s someone who actually
is quite skeptical of power which is an odd position for a pope. But
having lived through the junta period in Argentina and seeing the realities
of what it means to be close to formal power and what you can rationalize,
I think we see that throughout.

And the fact is compassion is a key Christian precept.

HAYES: Here`s what`s fascinating to me about this, this statement. I
want to talk about some other statements. He gave this entire press
conference that was fascinating.

You know, this is actually basically the church teaching on exact this
issue. I mean, you know, it is not a sin to, quote, "have the tendency."
It is a sin to commit acts that violate God`s law. I obviously deeply,
deeply, deeply disagree with that. I find that a heinous teaching, in

But I thought it was interesting, too, in some ways it showed that
it`s not that what Pope Francis is doing is doctrinally different than his
predecessor. There`s some force to the symbolic and rhetorical.

PERRIELLO: Right. As someone -- as Michael Sean Winters pointed out,
he seemed to show more passion and anger about priests who drive fancy cars
than about the issue of homosexuality. So, so much of it is emphasis.

I think it`s important for progressives not to get lost with where
this pope is and where he isn`t. For example, his position on women
ordination in the priest, something that I think has such weak biblical and
theological underpinnings. He did speak to John Paul II sort of backing a
(INAUDIBLE) position --

HAYES: This is the quote, "On the ordination of women, the church has
spoken and said no. John Paul II, in a definitive formulation, said that
door is close."

PERRIELLO: Right. So, there is plenty that progressives like myself
will continue to find indefensible. But I think what we do see is a pope
who`s fundamentally focused on issues of poverty and justice, and many
people feared he would then overcompensate on the culture issues in order
to protect his bona fides on the economic issues. But in fact, he`s
continued to show his impulse there as well, to be one of compassion.

HAYES: Here is the part of his conversation about gay priests that I
thought was most interesting. He has just appointed Batista Rica, a pope
(ph) to head the Vatican Bank, who had been previously investigated for a
gay relationship, right?

And this is what he said about him, he said, "The abuse of minors, for
instance, is a crime. But one can sin and convert and the Lord both
forgives and forgets. We don`t have the right to refuse to forget it`s
dangerous. The theology of sin is important. St. Peter committed one of
the greatest sins, denying Christ, and yet they made him the pope. Think
about that."

Now, I happen to think that consensual gay love is not a sin.


HAYES: But I thought was fascinating about that was, A, the emphasis
on forgiveness as opposed to condemnation. And also when he says the abuse
of minors is a crime and distinguishing the abuse of minors from a
relationship between gay adults, it was a distinction that much of the
church missed during the period in which abuse of minors was rampant.

PERRIELLO: That`s right. I think what he`s talking about the
priesthood, keep in mind, in a way it`s easier for him to take that
position on gay men in the priesthood because they have to be celibate
anyway, whether gay or straight, as opposed to some of these issues of acts
which the church will continue to struggle with. But again, you see this
issue of where is emphasis.

He also talks about the importance of not forgetting because you have
this pain in the church of these scandals that have happened where the
church papered over it and not wanting to forget the victims in these
situations, either.

And I think this is something, again, that comes out of the Latin
American experience of living through these periods of atrocities and
wanting to go with forgiveness as the reconciliation programs in Chile and
Argentina did. That doesn`t mean forgetting. In fact, remembering is an
important part of making sure the sin doesn`t occur again.

HAYES: The big test for me, institutional question of how certain
members of the priesthood are handled in terms of accountability going
forward and whether actually things are brought to law where they belong.

Former Congressman Tom Perriello, thank you so much.

PERRIELLO: Thank you.

HAYES: Coming up, Rand Paul and Chris Christie are absolutely tearing
the stuffing out of each other. Get the popcorn and we`ll bring you the
latest. The shockingly substantive fight for the future of the GOP.
That`s coming up.



SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: The people who want to criticize me and
call names, they`re precisely the same people who are unwilling to cut the
spending and they are, "Gimme, gimme, gimme, give me all my Sandy money
now." Those are the people who are bankrupting the government and not
letting enough money be left over for national defense.


HAYES: People have stopped being polite and started getting real in
the Republican Party.

That was Senator Rand Paul, Tea Party hero of Kentucky, and likely
presidential candidate, going hard at the GOP`s neocon wing and throwing in
a jab on disaster relief for good measure.

Paul was responding primarily to comments made by New Jersey Governor
Chris Christie seen by many as one of Paul`s chief potential rivals for the
2016 Republican nomination. Chris Christie criticized the party`s
libertarian shift on matters of national security at a recent panel
discussion in Colorado.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: This strain of libertarianism
that`s going through both parties right now and making big headlines, I
think, is a very dangerous thought.


HAYES: Christie took that shot in the wake of the House`s vote to
defund NSA bulk collection of phone records which failed by a narrow
margin. It was Christie`s attempt to stamp out a growing fire of
skepticism among the Republican base toward everything from mass
surveillance to foreign wars -- a base that appears to be moving in a
decidedly Rand Paulian direction.

Christie, positioning himself as the bona fide neocon alternative,
invoked 9/11 and saved his best attack lines for Paul and his acolytes.


CHRISTIE: You can name any number of people who have obligation and
he`s one of them. I mean, these esoteric intellectual debates -- I want
them to come to New Jersey and sit across from the widows and the orphans
and have that conversation. And they won`t because that`s a much tougher
conversation to have.


HAYES: You could not pick a more clarifying and stark fight for the
Republican Party to have. On one side, we have Rand Paul, the poster child
for austerity and Tea Party domestic politics and champion of anti-neocon
foreign policy. On the other side, Chris Christie, a self-proclaimed so-
called moderate on domestic issues, though, that`s at best a partial truth,
and now apparently an unapologetic hawk. If you need further proof, here`s
Chris Christie channeling his inner Dick Cheney.


CHRISTIE: The next attack that comes that kills thousands of
Americans as a result, people are going to be looking back on the people
having this intellectual debate and wonder whether or not they put what our
first job is, all of us, is to protect the lives of the people we serve.


HAYES: If this is the fight that awaits Republican Party in 2016,
Rand Paul, for one, says bring it on.


PAUL: I didn`t start this one and I don`t plan on starting things by
criticizing other Republicans, but if they want to make me the target, they
will get it back in spades.


HAYES: Joining me now, Matt Welch, editor-in-chief of the libertarian
magazine, "Reason," one of the best chroniclers of these foreign policy

OK. I`m amazed it`s gotten this raw this quickly between these two
people. Usually, you kind of keep this stuff as subtext for a while, but
it is both shockingly out in the open and shockingly ideological. It
really seems like there`s a substantive battle happening about the
direction of foreign policy in the Republican Party.

MATT WELCH, REASON MAGAZINE: Republicans, the sort of establishment
that`s been interventionist, trying to shut down debates -- as we literally
heard Chris Christie trying to do. We shouldn`t have these intellectual
debates, right? That`s governed the party uninterrupted for 12 years. But
for the last three years, the juice has been Rand Paul, some of Ron Paul
bringing these scruffy people across the aisle who have never been in
politics before.

So, the Republican establishment hates that, doesn`t feel good about
that. And there`s legitimately concerned, what you`re going to see, in the
words of Peter King, Republicans are going to do with Rand Paul what
Democrats allegedly did with George McGovern in 1972 --

HAYES: Right.

WELCH: -- and become Snowden Republicans, which is a favorite new
line of Bill Kristol and the like.

So it`s a legitimate fight. They are really, really concerned about
this new direction.

HAYES: So here`s what`s interesting. I mean, Rand Paul I know what
Rand Paul`s politics are quite well. He`s quite open about them. His
father, he has much of the same politics as his father. His father is
quite open about them.

Chris Christie is not someone I think about in foreign policy at all.
You have this great blog post, which you cited an excerpt from Dan Balz`s
fourth coming book, about essentially Christie making a pilgrimage to see
Henry Kissinger. I think it`s in summer of 2011 when he is thinking about

He said, "I haven`t given any deep thought to foreign policy,"
Christie admitted. Kissinger, "Don`t worry about that," said Kissinger.
"We can work with you on that. Foreign policy is instinct. It`s
character. That`s what foreign policy is." You make the point the
interventionists find interventionists in the GOP establishment keep
finding politicians to kind of like cultivate and recruit.

WELCH: You care about foreign policy, you wake up in the morning, you
are more serious than anybody in this room about foreign policy, why do you
keep looking for foreign policy neophyte? It`s not just Chris Christie
with Henry Kissinger. It`s Sarah Palin with Bill Crystal and the --

HAYES: George W. Bush.

WELCH: After he had become president. Before that, it was John
McCain. I mean, he was more experienced in foreign policy. They supplied
an entire kind of ideological of working Teddy Roosevelt ethos to go along
with his family pattern in the past. It is a strange tick. Why are they
doing this? One reason is simply that they`re trying to win elections and
have their policy preferences enacted in Washington. They`re playing

HAYES: That`s what everyone does.

WELCH: They`re doing it better than libertarian noninterventionists
are playing politics, certainly. But there`s also something kind of
creepy, I think, about wanting to fill the empty brains of charismatic

HAYES: Part of it, too, I think particularly in this moment, this is
-- here`s a Gallup poll about Republicans if U.S. military force should be
used to end the Syria conflict, 64 percent of Republicans said no and 31
percent of Republicans said yes. I think there is this noninterventionist
streak in the Republican Party. What I find fascinating, though, is I
think it`s also easy to overstate that, like, if you go back to that NSA
vote last week, a majority of Republicans wanted to continue the program.
A majority of Democrats voted against it. Michele Bachmann, I was really
curious what she was going to say, she got down in the well of the House
and talked jihad, jihad, jihad.

WELCH: Right.

HAYES: And didn`t want anything to do with this amendment. So I do
think it`s an open question, really, where the base is.

WELCH: Absolutely. It`s an interesting thing, where more Democrats
voted for this, but the action in initiating these things are coming from
libertarian Republicans like Rand Paul. And, yes, Republicans when they`re
out of power suddenly get skeptical about its use.

HAYES: Right.

WELCH: Which is why this fight is actually important out there,
right? Because right now there isn`t really any democratic action on the
space where Barack Obama used to be, which is a critic of overreach in the
war on terror. Hillary Clinton`s not going to be bringing that game in
2016. The president obviously cannot. He`s adopted a lot of Dick Cheney-
style tactics.

HAYES: Chris Christie won`t.

WELCH: Chris Christie certainly will not. There`s an available
politics in America because this sentiment on the left and on the right has
been artificially tamped down by a foreign policy consensus and also by a
style of debate exemplified by Chris Christie saying we don`t want to have
a debate, look at the widows, you know, scoreboard, we`re out of here.
We`re seeing finally some pushback against that style.

HAYES: That`s why I think this is incredibly healthy and I urge -- I
urge this debate forward. I hope it gets even more intense. Matt Welch
from "Reason" magazine, thanks a lot.

WELCH: Thank you.

HAYES: We`ll be right back with Click3.


HAYES: Last week, President Obama spoke about the need to raise the
minimum wage and provide working Americans with a better quality of life.
Today, fast food workers around the country said enough is enough. They
cannot survive on $7.25 an hour. We`ll talk with some of those workers
coming up.

First, I want to share the three awesomest things on the
internet today. We begin with criticism Fox News style. Esteemed
religious scholar is author of the new book "Zealot." He`ll be on ALL IN
tomorrow to talk about it. But first he took part in what "Slate" called
the single most cringe worthy embarrassing interview on Fox News.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, I want to be clear, you`re a Muslim. So
why did you write a book about the founder of Christianity?


HAYES: While you pick your jaw up off the floor, I should point out
that Reza Aslan actually offered a calm and sane response.


REZA ASLAN, AUTHOR, "ZEALOT": I am an expert with a PhD in the
history of religions, but I have been obsessed with Jesus --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It still begs the question, why would you be
interested in the founder of Christianity?


HAYES: The 10-minute interview is worthy of a double face palm, but
also worthy of a new internet need, several viewers directed us to the
hashtag foxnewslitcrit. Twitter users imagine fox interviews with noted
authors in the past. "Mr. Kafka, you`re clearly a human being. What makes
you qualified to write about giant cockroaches?" Even old Will Shakespeare
chimed in, how did I write a midsummer night`s dream when I was not an
invisible fairy?

The second awesomest thing on the internet today, the phone
that never saw it coming, in Boston Red Sox slugger, David Ortiz, argued
balls and strikes, was not surprising to see big poppy unleash his rage at
the man behind home plate. This poor dugout telephone never had a chance.
The internet, no stranger to turning something absolutely terrifying into a
digital loop gave us this gift.

Also joining in the fun were some Red Sox teammates who constructed
a vintage replacement complete with cans and string. Big poppy, himself,
showed a lighter side the following day when he playfully pretended to once
again commit first-degree murder against Mr. Telephone. The winning of the
day was the Tampy Ray`s Twitter feed. "Wanted, steel alloy telephone with
Kevlar cord, will spare no expense."

The third awesomest thing on the internet today, proof that dying is
easy, comedy is hard. A web site put together a 4-1/2 minute super cut of
"Saturday Night Live" cast members throughout the ages absolutely losing it
on live television. The laughter is truly infectious. Though these are
trained professionals, it seemed impossible for any human being with a
pulse to keep a straight face during something like this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somewhere in the distance we heard the pounding of
native drums. Was it in our minds? We don`t know.


HAYES: For a television institution chugging along for 38 years, it`s
good to know were not the only ones laughing. You can find all the links
for tonight`s Click3 on our web site, We`ll be right



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you have a fast food lunch plan today, your
plans might be interrupted. There are hundreds of angry fast food workers
walking off the job this afternoon.


HAYES: That was part of the afternoon news today in St. Louis,
Missouri. This was the scene there with hundreds of striking workers and
their supporters gathering to protest for living wage and the right of fast
food workers to join unions. The same story played out in Kansas City
today where about 160 people marched on a local Burger King. The Kansas
City "Star" reported that only manager-level employees were on duty.

Across New York City, organizers say hundreds of workers walked
off the job today. The simultaneous strikes and marches were designed to
kick off a large nationwide movement. Organizers say will continue to
spread to cities all over the country this week. This is a story we first
covered in the very first week of the show.

Back then, it was only happening here in New York, but since then,
the movement of fast food workers demanding a living wage and the right to
organize has exploded. It`s gone national, and it is still growing. This
week`s strikes come on the heels of the president`s renewed campaign-style
push on the economy just last week. That included a call to raise the
minimum wage.


one who works full time in America should have to live in poverty, I am
going to keep making the case that we need to raise the minimum wage
because it`s lower right now than it was when Ronald Reagan took office.
It`s time for the minimum wage to go up.


HAYES: The president followed up that speech with an interview with
"The New York Times" this weekend in which he identified inequality and
lack of social mobility in this country is defining issues of our time.
Saying, quote, "if we stand pat, if we don`t do anything, then growth will
be slower than it should be. Unemployment will not go down as fast as it
should. Income inequality will continue to rise. The central problem we
face and the one we face now, the immediate crisis is over, is how do we
build a broad-based prosperity?"

Today, this week, as Washington slumps toward an August recess
with no sign of a minimum wage bill in sight, the folks trying to make a
living on minimum wage in this country are taking matters into their own


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been working here at Burger King for two
years and at Pizza Hut for eight years. My mother, she worked for the same
industry. I watched her struggle raising me and my siblings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m still completely broke even with living with
my mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do the job. We deserve more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a multibillion dollar industry where they`re
making record profits, literally billions and billions of profits in
recovering from the rescission and the workers on the bottom are making
poverty wages.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rent is $700. Gas is $50. Electricity is $50.
Coffee is $50 and I only make $409. I`m at a deficit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m working 15 hours a day, which puts me away
from home 17 hours a day. You talk about watching your kids grow up
overnight. I don`t get to see my kids for consecutive days because I work
two jobs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The right to organize is a human right.
Increasing the minimum wage is only the humane option we have.


HAYES: Joining me now, Tsedeye Gebreselassie, a staff attorney with
National Employment Law Project, Kareem Starks, an employee at McDonald`s,
and Gregory Reynoso, a former delivery driver for Domino`s who now works
with Fast Food Forward. We did reach out to McDonald`s and Domino`s to
invite them on the show. They have not taken us up on the offer. The
offer still stands.

Kareem, you`re on strike. If there`s a McDonald`s executive
watching this right now and thinking to themselves, well, we have hundreds
of thousands of employees. There are some folks who disgruntled. What do
you say to them?

KAREEM STARKS, MCDONALD`S EMPLOYEE: What do I say? I say it`s time
to take a stand like, it`s time for us, as, like, a union, as one, to just
speak up and say what`s right. Like, it`s not right we`re making $7.25 and
work twice as hard.

HAYES: You said in one interview I read with you that you are -- that
there`s a squeeze on you because they`re trying to do more with less
workers, that you have noticed a speedup, the amount of work that you have
to do now is more than it was when you first started. What`s going on

STARKS: What`s going on is they`re just cutting back, like, they cut
back on hours. They cut back on employees and you know, great employees
like myself have to work twice as hard. Like, I might be forced to do job
one or two or be force to make burgers and, you know, do the grill. And at
the same time, it`s not fair. It`s not fair that I have to work twice as
hard and I only make $7.25.

HAYES: You`re making minimum wage right now.

STARKS: Right now.

HAYES: How long have you been working there?

STARKS: I`ve been working there going on five months now.

HAYES: OK, I want to talk to you, Gregory, about what happened to you
at Domino`s. You decided to engage with the strikes. You were quite
vocal. You participated in three strikes. Then what happened to you?

everybody in my store come out my store under strike. They retaliate and
set up meetings against the union and try to scare my co-workers, try to --

HAYES: They retaliated, tried to scare you. They started talking to
your co-workers.

REYNOSO: Finally they fired me.

HAYES: They fired you.

REYNOSO: They fired me. They found an excuse that was not proved,
but they fired me.

HAYES: This is, I mean, what`s happening right now with folks like
Kareem and with Gregory going out on strike and when you hear that story,
Kareem, you worried about your job?

STARKS: Not at all.

HAYES: Why not?

STARKS: I feel like I`ve been worried how to figure out how to pay
rent, get food on the table. There`s nothing you can do to scare me right

HAYES: It`s scary enough to be making minimum wage.

STARKS: Exactly. It`s scary enough to figure out that every month I
might just be able just to make rent, you know? Not even get food. So how
scary is that not having food for your kids?

HAYES: If the allegations of what Gregory is saying are true,
obviously I don`t have Domino`s here to counter that. There`s another side
to that story. I want to give that due credence. If they are true, that
is illegal. You cannot fire people because they are organizing for their

mean, workers in this country have the right to engage in protected,
concerted activity to better their working conditions, but the --

HAYES: Explain what that means. That means even if they`re not in
the union --

GEBRESELASSIE: Even if they`re not in the union, workers in the
country, you don`t have to be in a union. You can come together with co-
workers and say I want higher wages. I want to better my working
conditions, protest against unlawful working conditions. The problem is
workers have this right in theory, but in practice, employers retaliate
against workers. Most of the time it goes unchecked because there isn`t
this type of community support and national media, you know, surrounding
these types of strikes. I mean, one of the reasons why there`s such a
decline in strikes over the last decade is because workers have everything
to lose from striking and employers have everything to gain.

HAYES: Right.

GEBRESELASSIE: -- from retaliating. It`s really courageous for
workers like Gregory to, you know, go out on strike, to organize their
workers and to face the consequences and to not be afraid.

HAYES: What do you hear -- yes, what do you hear from -- what are
your interactions with management like? When you go to work tomorrow, what
is that going to be like?

STARKS: Nobody really says anything to me, like, I go in and I do my
job. Like, I try, you know, to stay professional at work at all times. So
nobody really says anything to me, but other employees, they might feel
like they can scare them and tell them they`ll get fired behind closed
doors or pull them to the side and be like, you could lose your job for,
like, organizing. But, you know, I try to educate everybody on the

HAYES: The employers say, look, if we pay you a living wage, our
business doesn`t work. What do you say to that?

GEBRESELASSIE: You know, minimum wage at $7.25 an hour is so far
below what employers used to pay. The minimum wage used to be almost $11,
had it kept pace with inflation. Economists across the political spectrum
agree that the reason why job growth is slow is because consumers don`t
have money to spend because they`re making poverty wages.

HAYES: I want to say, show a bit, Rick Berman on Fox Business, Rick
Berman is a hired gun essentially of various agencies. This is him arguing
for why you shouldn`t make more money. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At $15 an hour, many, I won`t say a majority, but
many fast food restaurants are out of business, the business model just
doesn`t not support those kinds of wages. And if people are feeling that
they`re not being paid adequately, they`ve got to find a job someplace
elsewhere the business model pays higher wages.


HAYES: You`re shaking your head. I want to get your response to that
and bring in a member of Congress who is out on the picket line today,
right after we take this break.


HAYES: We`re talking about the fast food strike under way across the
country tonight. Still with me at the table, Tsedeye Gebreselassie from
the National Employment Law Project, McDonalds worker, Kareem Starks who is
striking and Gregory Reynoso from Fast Food Forward, and joining us is
Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney, Democrat from New York. Great to have you
here, Congresswoman.


HAYES: Gentlemen, I want to get your reaction to the bite I played.
If people are feeling they`re not being paid adequately, they have to go
find a job someplace elsewhere paid higher wages. What`s your response to
that? Just go get a higher wage job.

STARKS: You know, I work for McDonald`s for, like, five months.
Before that, I worked for the Parks Department, climbing trees. I made
$10.25 more than what I`m making now. So I`ve had a better job, and I was
never in poverty like I am now. But whoever is, like, against it,
obviously isn`t ever made $7.25 and never tried to budget paying for two
kids and an apartment and bills and food all for $7.25.

HAYES: My sense, Gregory, if there were jobs available that paid
higher wages, you would be happy to take them.

REYNOSO: Yes, I would be happy. The point is, it`s not these typed
of opportunities for everybody. There are not a lot of people what can
really go out and find these types of jobs. That`s why people have to live
on $7.25.

HAYES: Congresswoman, it`s fairly unusual to find members of Congress
walking the picket line. There were a number. Why were you out there?

MALONEY: Well, I was looking for you, Chris.

HAYES: I was prepping this segment.

MALONEY: We were out there to show solidarity, the fight we have
before Congress. We have a bill before Congress, HR-1010. We have 142 co-
sponsors, 30 in the Senate and it would raise the minimum wage to $10.10,
over 3 years, 95 cents a year. The president even in 2009 was calling for
minimum wage increase in his state of the union and, of course, last week
in Illinois. It`s a priority of his. It`s a priority of ours. We`re
working hard to pass it.

HAYES: In the past, raising the minimum wage, you`ve been able to get
some Republicans to vote for it. There was a minimum wage raised under
George W. Bush that happened. There were a number of Republican votes. Is
the Republican Party, do you think you can find people on the other side of
the aisle who would vote for this bill?

MALONEY: I believe it merits bipartisan support and we`ll certainly
be working to secure it. You`re not going to secure it if you don`t try.

HAYES: That doesn`t occur to me very much.

MALONEY: We`re going to try. We`re going it try because it`s too
important and talking to Greg and Kareem, you see the importance of it. I
believe you`re working two jobs.


MALONEY: He doesn`t have time to sleep. He`s working two jobs and
it`s hard.

STARKS: I actually work the overnight shift last night and I`m here

HAYES: Thank you for coming in.

STARKS: I just, like, want to thank everybody for the support.

HAYES: Tsedeye, when I was talking to Kareem and Gregory about this
idea that if you want a better job then go get a job that pays a higher
wage what is happening right now in this economy, I don`t think this is
underappreciated. The jobs are being created at the bottom of the wage
scale. That is a trajectory that many Americans are experiencing.

GEBRESELASSIE: Kareem`s story is the story of our economy and how our
labor markets have shifted so we`ve like hemorrhaged these decent paying
jobs. What`s taking its place jobs that pay low wages like fast food and
retail. Not only are those the jobs that are being created. They`re also
jobs where real wages are actually declining, you know, since --

MALONEY: Out of the 3.2 million low-income jobs, 2/3 of them are
women. Women are disproportionately in these low-income jobs.

GEBRESELASSIE: They`re also adults. That`s the other thing.

MALONEY: They always say they`re teenagers. They`re not. Most of
them are --

HAYES: Were your co-workers, your co-workers, the image is, like,
these are teens on summer jobs. Your co-workers were supporting families.


STARKS: There`s a few co-workers I know that has kids and supporting
families and paying bills and stuff like that. I mean, it`s probably --
McDonald`s and fast food chains usually target younger kids or whatever,
but at the end of the day, there are still older people that have these
jobs. There`s, like, a 60-year-old lady in my store.

GEBRESELASSIE: The median age for a fast food worker in this country
is 29 years old.


GEBRESELASSIE: That is an adult. The other thing the industry says
these are stepping stone jobs.

HAYES: You could rise up in the ranks.

GEBRESELASSIE: That`s just not the case. There`s limited
opportunities for advancement.

REYNOSO: People from 50 years old, they`ll be working in these
companies. Imagine those people supporting families.

HAYES: Will you quickly show that mobility graphic? It`s 2.2 percent
jobs in the fast food industry are managerial, professional and technical

GEBRESELASSIE: The vast majority, 90 percent are frontline
occupations. The median wage is $8.94 an hour.

HAYES: Compared to all industries, 31 percent --

MALONEY: It hasn`t gone up in four years.

HAYES: And it hasn`t gone up in four years. Tsedeye Gebreselassi
from the National Employment Law Project, McDonalds worker, Kareem Starks,
Gregory Reynoso from Fast Food Forward, and Congresswoman Caroline Maloney
from New York, thank you all. That`s ALL IN for this evening. The "RACHEL
MADDOW SHOW" starts now with Melissa Harris Perry sitting in for Rachel.
Good evening, Melissa.


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