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All In With Chris Hayes, Thursday, August 15th, 2013

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ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
August 15, 2013
Guests: Sharif Abdel Kouddous, P.J. Crowley, Choire Sich, Julia Ioffe, Bob
Inglis, Samer Shehata


CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening, from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Tonight on ALL IN:

As the smoke clears from yesterday`s deadly crackdown in Egypt, the
horrible human toll is revealed and the world decides just how to react.
We will go back live to Cairo in just a moment.

Also tonight, shocking video posted to the Web gives a disturbing
glimpse into the current situation for gays living in Russia. As the
outrage grows and Olympics draw near, is there any way this doesn`t become
a full-blown firestorm?

That, plus my special documentary on climate change will be airing in
this hour tomorrow night. Tonight, we`ll give you a sneak preview of the
politics of power. That is coming up.

But we begin with the gruesome aftermath of the worst military
crackdown in Egypt since its President Mohamed Morsi was removed six weeks
ago by the Egyptian military. We`ll bring you President Obama`s reaction
momentarily.

But the official death toll according to Egypt`s own ministry of
health now stands at a staggering 638. And it has mounted precipitously
since yesterday`s broadcast when it stood at 235.

By 3:20 a.m. Eastern Time, it was raised to 327. By 4:35 a.m., it was
raised, again, to 421 dead. And at 6:43 a.m., it was raised to 525 dead
with over 3,700 injured.

And today, at 3:40 p.m. Eastern Time, the death toll was raised yet
again to 638.

The dominant image of the day: wrapped bodies in mosques. Funerals
began today as well, yet another reminder as if Egypt needed one, that the
purported political process of moving from an outright military takeover to
inclusive elections seemed at risk vanishing outright. The cleanup of
ravaged camps began as did month-long state of emergency martial law.

The Muslim Brotherhood supporters urged people to protest in strict
defiance.

In Giza, just southwest of Cairo, protesters torched a local
government building with Molotov cocktails. In Alexandria, hundreds of
protesters march. There were also attacks on Christian churches throughout
the country and up to a dozen different cities suspected to be carried out
by Muslim Brotherhood supporters.

The international reaction barely keeping up with the pace of events
on the ground. The Ecuadorian government recalled its ambassador. Denmark
cut off funds to Egypt, as other officials in the European Union called for
suspension of aid.

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, an ally of Mohamed Morsi, has
condemned yesterday`s bloodshed as a massacre. And today, in retaliation,
Egypt recalled its ambassador to Turkey.

The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting today in Egypt.
President Obama addressed the crisis directly, announcing he would cancel
the joint military exercise with the Egyptian army scheduled to start next
month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States
strongly condemns the steps that have been taken by Egypt`s interim
government and security forces. We deplore violence against civilians.
While we want to sustain our relationship with Egypt, our traditional
cooperation cannot continue as usual when civilians are being killed in the
streets and rights are being rolled back. As a result, this morning we
notified the Egyptian government that we are canceling our biannual joint
military exercise which was scheduled for next month.

Going forward, I`ve asked my national security team to assess the
implications of the actions taken by the interim government and further
steps that we may take as necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Joining me on the phone from Cairo now, Sharif Abdel Kouddous,
correspondent for "Democracy Now" and a fellow at The Nation Institute.

Sharif, it was staggering today to watch the death toll unfold. I
couldn`t help but imagine what the aftermath looked and felt like in Egypt
today.

SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS, DEMOCRACY NOW (via telephone): Well, Cairo is
a normally bustling city of 19 million people that is infamous for its
noise and traffic, and in the morning, the aftermath was a very different
city. It was quiet, very few people on the streets. And it felt like
everyone was staying at home.

I went in the morning to a mosque which was about not far from Rabaa
al-Adawiya, the site of the main protest that was stormed yesterday, and
this was really transformed into a charnel house with schools of corpses
laid out on the floor wrapped in bloody white shrouds. I counted at least
234 bodies inside. There was family members crouched near them. Many of
them were weeping.

Many were scanning lists of names of the dead to try and find their
loved ones, plastered on the mosque walls. It was a typically hot sunny
day in summer here in Cairo and people were carrying in blocks of ice to
place on the corpses to try to stop them from decaying, but the smell of
death is really heavy, and there was fans placed next to the body and
people spraying air freshener. Really difficult scenes to witness, and
people had complained that they weren`t getting the proper burial permits
to take their loved ones and bury them.

So that was the scene at this mosque, and it`s unclear if this latest
death toll from the health ministry, the 638 number, includes the more than
230 that were at this mosque.

We expect the death toll to continue to rise, and many of the bodies
that I saw, family members would uncover to show us, were charred and
burned beyond recognition. They say these were the bodies that were inside
Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque and field hospital that were burned to the ground -
-

HAYES: Ground.

KOUDDOUS: -- when police and security forces stormed the sit-in
yesterday.

HAYES: Sharif, my question for you is whether -- whether the images
we are seeing, we`re playing right on air now, images of shrouded bodies.
These images have been ubiquitous in the Western and American media. Are
those are the images in Egypt? I`ve read some reports because state-
controlled media is not showing that, there`s not as much a sense inside
Egypt of just the scope of the carnage that there is outside Egypt.

KOUDDOUS: Well, I think that`s true to some extent. It really
depends on what channel you`re watching. If you`re watching a lot of the
private TV channels that are sympathetic to the military, opposed to the
Muslim Brotherhood, as well as state television, there`s very few images of
the victims of yesterday`s massacre showing on the screens, and this is
endemic to the media polarization that has only grown wider over these past
six weeks.

We`ve seen in the run-up to the raids of the sit-ins, very shrill
media coverage, painting all of the Muslim Brotherhood and all of the Morsi
protesters as terrorists and violent that need to be forcibly dispersed and
this is continuing now.

I mean, if you watch private TV, you don`t really get a sense of the
scale of the killing that took place. If you watch a channel like al
Jazeera, though, which is more sympathetic to the Brotherhood and to Morsi,
then you do get a sense, and there`s a lot of coverage of those kinds of
scenes, a lot of coverage of protests and who are supportive of Morsi still
taking to the streets in opposition.

So, it`s a very divided media landscape that reflects a very divided
society.

HAYES: We`re seeing a polarization there that continues. It`s
incredibly troubling.

Sharif Abdel Kouddous from "Democracy Now", thank you again for
joining us.

KOUDDOUS: Thank you.

HAYES: On the note that Sharif just said, I should say that the
Egyptian interim president responded to President Obama in a statement read
on state TV. "Egypt faces terrorism, including attacks on court, churches
and police stations. It`s the responsibility of the government to protect
citizens and the nation. The presidency fears Obama`s statements are not
based on facts and encourages violence and flourishing of armed groups that
could complicate the country`s roadmap and transition to democracy."

Joining me now is former State Department spokesman, P.J. Crowley.
He`s now a fellow at the George Washington University Institute for Public
Diplomacy and Global Communication. And Samer Shehata, associate professor
of Middle Eastern politics at University of Oklahoma.

P.J., in the wake of the president`s statement today which seemed
largely to not move the needle in either direction, I just watched tons of
cable news punditizing about this was not strong enough, X, Y and Z.

And I have to say, I watch this unfold and watch the commentary on the
presidents and it seems to me embedded is an assumption the U.S. can, if
it`s strong enough or makes the right decisions, control the outcomes or
shape them in any meaningful way in Egypt. And I am not convinced that is
at all possible at the moment.

P.J. CROWLEY, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Well, I think,
Chris, there are two dimensions to that. Inside of Egypt, yes, you`re
right. The United States has a weak hand, has limited influence. We`re
dealing with decisions made in Egypt. And we`re dealing with mistakes that
are being made in Egypt.

I think there is a broader concern about the credibility of the United
States across the region, because obviously Egypt is a very consequential
country. If Egypt advances constructively, that has ripple effects. If
Egypt descends into chaos, that also will have dire consequences for the
region.

So, I do think it`s important in terms of the credibility and
influence that the United States has not just in Egypt, but on a wider
scale.

HAYES: In terms of credibility, here`s what`s basically happened: the
White House basically didn`t call the military takeover a coup. They
thought they talk to al-Sisi, the general who`s now running Egypt and were
quite explicit, and they went ahead and resort to that kind of violence.

And, Samer, the question now becomes, the last card in the hand of the
Americans is to stop the $1.3 billion in military aid. Do you think that
would be a smart or even effective thing for the U.S. to do?

SAMER SHEHATA, UNIV. OF OKLAHOMA: Well, I think that the money should
not be going to the Egyptian military to begin with. I think the vast
majority of Egyptians don`t benefit from the $1.3 million and it mostly
goes for outdated hardware that Egyptian military doesn`t need.

But you point out the paradox here. And the paradox is, we supposedly
have leverage, that`s the $1.3 million that we give to the Egyptian
military every year, but we`re afraid to stop giving that money, because if
we stop giving that money, then we`re going to lose our leverage.

HAYES: Right.

SHEHATA: So, that is the dilemma that the Obama administration faces.

HAYES: Well, and also, the leverage doesn`t amount to much in the
context the Gulf Stats have pledged between $12 billion and $15 billion,
P.J. They`ve already indicated quite publicly, I believe, if the U.S. were
to suspend aid, they would rush in to fill the vacuum. So, it seems to me
that all this question about is the U.S. negotiating the crisis, that`s a
marginal question in terms of the full scope of what we are seeing go
towards horribly, possibly, an outright sectarian civil strife in the
country.

CROWLEY: Well, there`s going to be significant strife. I don`t know
that it will blossom into a full-scale civil war. That`s a possibility,
but I do think that it has dire consequences for Egypt in multiple
dimensions. Obviously, the longer it takes Egypt to re-stabilize, the
dilemma is that Egypt fails to address its larger economic crisis, you
know, which is imperative of getting Egypt to advance in any constructive
direction because the economy was tenuous even during negotiations with the
Morsi government.

I think the other dimension that the United States has difficulty with
is obviously the goal is inclusive democracy, return to civilian rule.
That necessarily means that the Muslim Brotherhood --

HAYES: Is brought back into a political process, but they`ve now
watched the 17-year-old daughter of their leader be killed by state forces
in one of the bloodiest clashes.

The question to you, Samer, then, is what does the Muslim Brotherhood
do next? That I think is what all eyes are upon. What is the reaction
here?

SHEHATA: Well, the Muslim Brotherhood faced repression in the past,
nothing on this level. But in the 1950s and `60s, the regime of Gamal
Abdel Nasser imprisoned many of them and detained others. And many had to
flee the country. They are unlikely as a group, and already declared a
willingness to resort to violence.

Now, that doesn`t mean there aren`t going to be fringe elements that
see no hope other than violence against the state. They`re going to say
that we participated in the political process. We participated in
elections and look what happened.

But as an organization, they`re not going to resort to violence. I
think they`re likely to, if allowed to, focus on the charitable services
and the welfare provision that they have and try to slowly reintegrate into
the political process if they are allowed.

HAYES: That is a big question. The former State Department spokesman
P.J. Crowley and Samer Shehata, from the University of Oklahoma -- thank
you, gentlemen.

SHEHATA: Thank you.

HAYES: FOX News is covering the food stamp program with headlines
like this. Unabashed surfer receiving food amps to buy sushi and avoid
work. But they are perpetuating lies about a program that has one of the
lowest rates of fraud in the U.S. I`ll explain coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Later in the show, a sneak preview of my new climate change
documentary "The Politics of Power."

But, first, we take a closer look at a FOX News documentary which was
just about the most dishonest depiction of supposed food stamp fraud that
you can imagine. That`s up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R), OKLAHOMA: So I`m in Crystal City and I`m
buying my groceries, and I noticed everybody was giving that card. I mean,
they had huge, huge baskets, and I realized it was the first of the month.

But then I`m looking over and there`s a couple beside me. This guy
was built like a brick house. I mean, he had muscles all over him. He was
in a little tank top and pair of shorts and really nice Nike shoes.

And she was standing there and she was all in shape and she looked
like they just came from a fitness program. I mean, she was in the spandex
and, I mean, you know, she was -- they were both physically fit. And they
go up in front of me and they pay with that card.

That`s fraud. Absolute 100 percent all it is is fraud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: That was Congressman Markwayne Mullin, a Republican from
Oklahoma, telling a town hall his story of food stamp fraud at a grocery
store in Crystal City, Virginia.

This couple was in great shape. So, what do they need food stamps
for?

Now, to his credit, he did stop short of describing the fraudsters as
possessing calves the size of cantaloupes. But that story of supposed
fraud in the nation`s food stamp program, also called SNAP, is a long
running and currently intensifying mythology on the right. Most recently
House Republicans have been waging what amounts to an all-out war on food
stamps, turning their institutional attention to fighting the scourge of
hungry people getting food.

Last month, they took the unprecedented step of stripping the
nutritional assistance program from the farm bill altogether and are now
considering $40 billion in cuts to SNAP over the next decade.

In some ways, Republican lawmakers are simply following the lead of
right-wing noise machine which has decided to focus its efforts on turning
food stamp recipients into the next welfare queens.

Last week, FOX ran an hour-long special called "The Great Food Stamp
Binge" dedicated solely to misrepresenting a program that feeds millions of
hungry American.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All paid for by our wonderful tax dollars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are just a hair away from large-scale hunger
malnutrition and starvation in America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You really believe that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No question whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re just laughing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely preposterous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You and your volunteers stop and explain food
stamps to just about every person on the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be construed as recruitment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 29-year-old has chosen the life of a beach bum
in this seaside paradise. With no fixed address, Jason has for the last
couple years floated from place to place, staying with family, pals and
girls he`s dated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A nice day today, though, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He gets by with a little help from his friends,
and you, the taxpayer.

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: It just a question of money and
benefits, then you can diminish their incentive to work and achieve and to
rise above difficult circumstances. I think there`s a real moral question
here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Food stamps, as a special program, is one of the
most obvious ways in which the government has reached into American
neighborhoods and says, it`s OK to be dependent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, taxpayers. Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel guilty at all about doing this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Now, let me take a second to cleanse your palette from what
you just watched with some actual facts about the food stamp program. One
of those is that fraud in the food stamps program is at an all-time low,
less than 2 percent of SNAP benefits two to households that do not meet the
program`s requirements. And contrary to what FOX News would have you
believe, the program is actually underused.

Listen to this: a quarter of all the people eligible for food stamps
don`t sign up. And less than 40 percent of seniors who are eligible signed
up in 2010.

Knowing those facts, let`s look at who is receiving help from the
program. According to the Center on Budget Policy Priorities, roughly 91
percent of SNAP benefits go to households below the poverty line, which is
about $23,000 for a family of four, $23,000. And 55 percent of SNAP
benefits go to households with incomes below half of the poverty line,
about $10,000 for a family of three.

And many of those people, the people who Republicans characterize as
moochers and fraudsters, they also happen to live in areas that
overwhelmingly support Republicans, in the reddest of the red counties.
Listen to this, today "Bloomberg" reported that among the 254 counties
where food stamp recipients doubled between 2007 and 2011, Republican Mitt
Romney won 213 of them in last year`s presidential election.

Joining me now is MSNBC contributor Goldie Taylor, who`s also a
contributor to thegrio.com.

And, Goldie, given that last statistic which I thought was
interesting, I wonder whether you think this political attack is effective
or whether the program is now so broadly used in America because of the
grinding misery of the great recession and the low wages that Republicans
actually risk alienating people who have come to know the program and to
feel warmly or fondly about it.

GOLDIE TAYLOR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Chris, I really think there`s
something to that. This really is a double-edged sword. And so, on the
one hand, you are harkening back to the archetypical welfare mother who is,
eight children, overweight, she gets by on food stamps and TANF programs
and other things all at our expense, so you`re looking to demonize a sector
of society who`s out there trying to survive, cope and make it among the
least of these.

But, on the other hand, you don`t know who is your neighborhood
qualifies for SNAP.

HAYES: That`s right.

TAYLOR: You don`t know if your next door neighbor is paying for those
groceries with the SNAP program because they lost their job two months ago
and haven`t been able to put food on the table.

And so, I think the face of poverty in this country is changing. One
in four children in this country is living in poverty and at risk of not
eating today. And then you certainly have to understand that these are
more than black and brown people and these are more than just the
persistently poor. These are formerly middle class people who, for
instance, lost their home from the last bust.

HAYES: And that`s what`s so fascinating about what has happened and
because the actual amount of use the program has grown. It has grown in
the wake of the great recession.

TAYLOR: And the other part of this is, 12 million to 13 million
people who qualify do not receive SNAP for one of a couple of reasons.
One, the hurdle to get into the program is so high by the time you finish
with identification and income checks and household size checks and all
those other things, navigating the system, itself, is very challenging.

On the other part of this thing, there is the stigma of having
received this kind of assistance. So, there are people, by the way, who
don`t even know that they qualify. Those are three major reasons why
people aren`t receiving SNAP today.

HAYES: We should also make a point of saying the average benefit is
somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 to $5 a day, which is to say (AUDIO
GAP) rich off this.

MSNBC contributor --

TAYLOR: I can tell you that my --

HAYES: Please.

TAYLOR: -- my family of three received $280 a month in food stamps.

HAYES: MSNBC contributor Goldie Taylor, always a pleasure. Thank
you.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

HAYES: Every day that passes, I`m more convinced the attacks on LGBT
Russians is going to absolutely blow up as an issue as we approach the
games. This is just starting, folks. There are new developments today to
tell you about, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

HAYES: That video is one of the more disturbing things that I have
seen in a very long time. And it`s just one of many like it posted to the
w depicting gay men in Russia being lured on the Internet into meeting up
in person only to be accosted, harassed, insulted, humiliated and beaten
for the cameras.

It is a sickening illustration of what is happening in modern day
Russia. The situation is dire for the country`s LGBT citizens. The
upcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi has put a spotlight on the crisis
there, much like the Beijing games drew attention to human rights
violations in China. Right now, the world is being given a small preview
of the absolute, total political firestorm that awaits.

Athletes from all over the globe are currently right now gathered in
Moscow for the world athletic championships. Spate of new Russian laws
including one that bans so-called gay propaganda has prompted some athletes
to publicly express their support for the LGBT community.

High jumper Emma Green Tregaro of Sweden showed solidarity by painting
her nails the color of the rainbow flag telling reporters, "I usually do my
nails in something that feels good for me and it`s a simple way of showing
what I think. It felt right."

That seemingly small act was met with intense and very public
criticism from one of Russia`s best known athletes. Yelena Isinbayeva, a
31-year-old pole vaulter, condemned the gesture by Green Tregaro and
another teammate as disrespectful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YELENA ISINBAYEVA, RUSSIAN POLE VAULTER: We Russians, maybe we are
different from European people than other people from different lands. We
have our law which everyone has to respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Isinbayeva named an official international Olympic committee
ambassador of the Youth Olympic Games and appointed mayor of the Olympic
Village in Sochi gave her explanation of the country`s attitude towards
LGBT citizens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISINBAYEVA: It`s my opinion, also, if we allow to promote and, you
know, do all this stuff on the street, we`re very afraid about our nations
because we consider ourselves like a normal standard to people. We just
live boys with women, women with boys and everything must be fine here. It
comes from the history. So we never had any problems. I mean, these
problems in Russia and we don`t want to have it in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: That statement prompted a sharp response from American middle-
distance runner Nick Symmonds. As we told you last night, Symmonds became
the first athlete to criticize the policy on Russian soil. He had more to
say following Isinbayeva`s comments. "It blows my mind that such a young,
well-traveled, well-educated woman would be behind the times. She said
normal standard people in Russia, guess what, a lot of these people with
Russian citizenship are normal, standard homosexuals. They deserve rights,
too."

Joining me now is Choire Sich, co-founder and co-author of the
website, Awl. And author of the fantastic new book, "Very Recent History."
An entirely factual account of a year in a large city. And Julia Ioffe,
former Moscow-based correspondent foreign policy in the "New Yorker" and
senior editor at "The New Republic."

Julia, this bill to me like, OK, we are now moving from this being a
future issue to being a right now present issue. And can you put into
context the comments today that we heard.

JULIA IOFFE, EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": So, Russia is where America
was 30, 40, 50 years ago. Most people in Russia think, about 74 percent of
Russians think that homosexuality is either a disease that needs to be
treated, a result of poor upbringing or result of seduction. So, there`s
like -- the kinds of misconceptions that we saw in the west a generation or
two ago, we`re seeing in Russia now. It`s also layered with a fear of
prison culture, homosexual sex is seen as humiliating, as rape by another
man. It`s a sign of weakness. So it`s -- and now on top of all of that,
it`s kind of covered with this anti-western patina.

HAYES: Yes. You heard it with her. She was talking about
essentially this is a foreign invasion, that, like, the Russian body is
pure, it has been penetrated by these foreign corrupt antibodies. Choire,
when you look at that video, I have to say, I watched those videos today.
And I thought, oh, there`s something like deeply, deeply dark and evil
happening here. And obviously there are probably videos like that in
countries around the world, frankly. But the combination of what`s
happening officially from the state. Just like watching that as a gay man,
like what is your reaction?

CHOIRE SICH, AUTHOR, "VERY RECENT HISTORY": It`s really terrible and
it`s really amplified by people using YouTube and other sharing methods
that we used to get gay bashed in private. It used to happen just to us.
And then to use this broadcast as an act of terror, too, is actually really
disgusting.

HAYES: Do you feel, Julia, like this is just some -- I mean, what was
shocking to me is, I found these videos because of a link in a great story
you did for "The New Republic" about the lives of gay and lesbian folks in
Russia. This guy is allowed to just do this. It felt to me like, yes,
this is an individual, but there`s some kind of environment that means that
this is OK.

IOFFE: That`s right. If you talk to gay activists in Russia and just
regular gay people in Russia, you see that things have gotten a lot worse
because of the law and the push to get the law through. There`s been a
spike in violence against gay people. So whereas before you saw people
kind of reacting with shrugs to people coming out to them as gay, you know,
some people would be disowned or kicked out of their homes, but you saw
these islands of tolerance in this sea of misunderstanding and hate.

And those islands are getting smaller and smaller. In part because
there`s clearly -- there`s been a signal sent that, you know, sometimes if
you look at these videos, the police do show up and they arrest the gay
people who are being bashed in these videos. They don`t go after the guys
who are pouring urine on their heads.

HAYES: Choire, the gay rights community we`re seeing begin to
mobilize about this. And I think in effectively in so far is we`re talking
about this, this is really being spotlighted. This is going to be
spotlighted going into the games. What do you hope to see happen with that
campaign and as we move toward the Olympics?

SICH: We`re 175 days out from the Olympics. A lot of people would
like us to move it from Russia. That is not going to happen. There`s a
lot of money behind it. What we need to do is go in with the national
Olympics committees have until September 7th to submit their names of
accredited media. So, what every organization should do is send everyone
gay in there. We can do a lot with this.

HAYES: Right. People should be there and using this opportunity to
report.

SICH: Amazing opportunity, internationally. Choire Sich, author of
the fantastic, must read new book "Very Recent History." It seriously
really blew my mind. You have to pick it up. Julia Ioffe from "The New
Republic." Thank you both. We`ll be right back with #Click3.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: The largest solar electric generating system in the world is
set to come online this year right here in the U.S. We took our cameras to
see what it looks like. And that is just one part of the brand new
documentary on climate change we`ll be airing tomorrow right here on this
time slot. You don`t want to miss. We`ll be giving you preview.

First, I want to share the three awesomest things on internet today.
We begin with an amazing revelation, the Smithsonian announcing today the
discovery of a new species in North America. The first such discovery in
35 years. And it isn`t some bug. It is a mammal. Never before
identified. Today the amazing image of the mammal is released. And wait,
no, wrong picture. Guys, that`s not it. I`m being now told that we have
the correct video. No. No. That`s not accurate, either.

That is a guy showering with a raccoon. Do we have a -- OK. Here we
go. Behold. The olinguito an animal so squeaky -- sneaky, one actually
lived at the national zoo for a year but it was mistaken for its sister
species, the olingo. As you can see, he`s an adorable cross between a
kitty and teddy bear. Just don`t try to touch him or he`ll claw your
freaking eyes out.

Second awesomest thing on the internet today, comes recommended from
the pastry plate. Since its inception, people have been having tons of fun
with twitter`s six-second video app called vine. We here at ALL IN used
vine just yesterday and made some of hager tamber picks (ph) created in my
honor. No, no, excuse me, I`m told from the control room this is video of
a raccoon stealing cat food.

Anyway, in the world of vine, there`s Will Sasso and then everyone
else. After all, who else can take a mundane bag of citrus fruit, turn it
into a rollicking good time for the whole family? That to say, if you
notice in all his stuff, there`s an edit, a cutaway. You can figure out
how he did it. This is from vine user Jay Ray. And this is Jay Ray`s kid.
No obvious cutaways. Jay Ray tosses some laundry, a small person in a
superman shirt pops up about out of nowhere and then disappears into the
phantom zone or under the bed. The point is, the kid is gone. And there`s
no way to know how he did it. You`ve been served, Will Sasso.

And third awesomest thing on the internet today, is destiny fulfilled
in the city of Spokane, Washington. A report from Alex Rozier, an NBC
affiliate KHQ introduces us to a local man who has found something awesome
at the corner of 3rd and Maple.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That`s when it all happened, that`s when I realize
that there`s something happening that is going to literally change my life.
It was there, man, and it was like the heavens opened. The sky sang. I
picked it up. I`ve never been the same since.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Joshua Kastel (ph) found something you just don`t
see every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I have found one of the greatest swords ever made
in history.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He found a four-foot metal sword on the side of the
road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: That`s right. A four-foot metal sword. And just like the
legendary caliber, this played a fierce to find the one man destined to
have it. But despite that Joshua Kastel (ph) wants to find the rightful
owner. And so, he put an ad on Craigslist, quote, "found, a sweat freaking
sword." Why he keep saying --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: In the ad, he said he will not turn down the reward
of knightly caliber. Beyond this thing. Beyond this thing. Apparently he
will also not turn down the chance to show you a possible pose or two.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You`re going to want to balance the weight of the
tongue of the blade. It`s like you`re batting literally.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: So, here`s a snapshot of success in swords.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: I just keep saying sword, well, for now, the sweet freaking
discovery is sitting a channel six to be claimed. The bad idea guys. We
here #Click3 can tell you a television studio is no place for swords.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: And the nice thing about this practice (gun shot)
oh! Oh, that hurt. Oh, that hurt big-time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: He was OK. Don`t worry. You can find all the links for
tonight`s #Click3 on our website, allinwithchris.com. We`ll be right back.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Tomorrow night during this hour, we`ll be airing a brand new
documentary on climate change called "The Politics of Power." Here`s a
sneak preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HAYES (voice-over): In the last few years we have begun to wean
ourselves off foreign oil. Since 2005, oil imports are down from 60
percent to less than 45 percent of total consumption. Part of the reason,
a technological breakthrough that makes it possible to extract vast amounts
of oil, shale rock, right in our own backyard.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Up until relatively recently, it was untoppable, it
was judge to be impossible to get oil out of this rock. And a few people
had a vision for if we can get it out, we`ll find a way. And American
ingenuity came to bear.

HAYES: The process begins by drilling down thousands of feet into the
tough shale layer. The drill line goes vertical, and then horizontal
through the rock. Sometimes as far as a mile. Then under high-pressure
water, chemicals, sand are pumped into the line forcing fractures in the
rock, releasing the oil which is then pumped to the surface.

This genius technology is termed hydraulic fracturing or more commonly
fracking and has led to a modern day oil rush. But there`s something else
locked up in the shale, natural gas. And natural gas is only half as much
co2 as coal, so it`s a cleaner fossil fuel. In just over a decade, U.S.
production of shale gas has increased 12 times. Meanwhile, U.S. carbon
emissions are at their lowest level since 1994.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We`ve had a pretty significant reduction on our
carbon dioxide emissions from fuel burning and it`s because of the boom in
natural gas which is cheaper than coal, so companies running power plants
say, hey, why are we burning coal when we can burn natural gas?

HAYES: Some people see natural gas as a so-called bridge fuel to get
us where we need to go, toward renewable sources of energy such as sun,
wind and water.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That implies that we have time to walk the bridge.
That implies that climate change is not yet upon us, but it is upon us and
we have to worry about it today.

BILL MCKIBBEN, FOUNDER, 350.ORG: There`s no solution other than
stopping burning coal and gas and oil and doing it fast. We`re past the
point where we`re going to stop global warming. I mean, we already melted
the arctic, OK?

DR. MICHAEL OPPENHEIMER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: What really hurts us
and makes us vulnerable to the climate is not the average. It`s the
extremes. And it`s the extremes that change a lot when the average just
changes a little. So even if earth only warms about five degrees
Fahrenheit which is the average predictions for this century, we`re going
to see sea level rising because of the warming by an amount of two, three,
four feet. And on a typical east coast beach, for instance, that takes
away 200, 300, 400 feet of beach horizontally inland.

MCKIBBEN: By now, for hundreds of millions of people around the
world, this is an incredible immediate thing. The National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration said in January in a report that we`ve already
raised the temperature enough that the ability of humans to work outdoors
has been cut 10 percent and it will be 30 percent by mid-century. That`s
about as basic as it gets.

The transition to the kind of world that works for everyone will be
greatly aided by the transition to a world of renewable, dispersed spread
out democratic energy, a world that doesn`t depend on the Koch Brothers and
Exxons and everybody else to bring them their energy, that instead is set
up so you that you can get it from the sun. And if you want to understand
why those guys hate that world so much, just remind yourself from their
point of view what the problem with the sun is. You can`t meter the damn
thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAYES: "Politics of Power" airs tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern
right here on MSNBC.

When we come back, I`ll talk to a republican who got booted out of
Congress by his own party for having the audacity to go out in public and
say the climate change is real.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: My new documentary "The Politics of Power" set to air tomorrow
night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC, investigates the denialism both in the
fossil fuel industry and in the Republican Party. Standing in the way of
any meaningful action on climate change in this country. We`ve talked
before on this show about how driven the republican base is right now by
the denial that climate change is real.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: This war of climate change unfortunately is not
doing this nation any good.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Can I follow up on that?

(APPLAUSE)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Every time we exhale,
we exhale carbon dioxide.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Just so you`ll know, global warming is a total
fraud.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The final question is whether manmade activity is
what`s contributing most to it, and I understand that people say there`s a
significant scientific consensus on that issue, but I`ve actually seen
reasonable debate on that principle.

(END VIEO CLIP)

HAYES: The omnipresent threat of a Tea Party challenge keeps elected
Republicans cowed on the issue and as a result nothing ever gets done in
Congress.

We`ll be joined in a moment by one republican who`s trying to change
that. Bob Inglis had South Carolina for six terms in Congress, when he
went down in a landslide to Tea Party challenger Trey Gowdy in the 2010
primary. A key to his downfall was widely believed, was saying out loud
the climate change is a real thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB INGLIS, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA REPRESENTATIVE: Unfortunately, I
think a clear majority of the republican conference does not accept human
causation and climate change.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What happens to Republicans and conservatives who
take an opposing view?

INGLIS: People look at you like you`ve grown an extra head or
something. I mean, it`s -- you`re definitely seen as some kind of an odd
ball and perhaps even a heretic. What happened with me in the primary was
just saying the climate change is real and let`s do something about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Never since then, Bob Inglis made it his mission to change his
party`s chores on climate change. He`s founded the energy and enterprise
initiative base on the George Mason University dedicated to convincing
conservatives that climate change is real that we should, you know, do
something about it. He is taking to barn storming the country advocating
to conservatives a tax on carbon emissions.

Joining me now is former Congressman Bob Inglis, republican from South
Carolina, now executive director of the Energy and Enterprise Initiative.
And Bob, I want to begin by playing you a little bit of Rush Limbaugh on
the topic. And we don`t play a lot of Rush Limbaugh on this show because
you kind of know what you`re getting. But it does perfectly give you a
sense of exactly what anyone in the Republican Party who might be inclined
to come to the scientific consensus on this issue, what they`re up against.
Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: In my humble opinion, folks, if
you believe in God, then intellectually you cannot believe in manmade
global warming. You must be either agnostic or atheistic to believe that
man controls something he can`t create.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Thoughts on that, Bob?

INGLIS: Well, you know, there`s -- the example of nuclear weapons and
how actually --

HAYES: Right.

INGLIS: -- if mankind hadn`t have excised its responsibility, we
couldn`t really leave it all to God`s sovereignty. You have to balance
those two. Man`s responsibility and God`s sovereignty. We could have, in
fact, during the cold war and could still today destroy the earth by
nuclear weapons, so it sort of undercuts Rush`s argument there. Clearly
human kind is responsible, and as creation stewards, we need to exercise
that responsibility when it comes to climate change.

HAYES: OK. So, here`s my big question. You`re doing this thing,
you`re trying to talk to conservatives about the issue. And I feel like
I`m not seeing the needle move. I don`t mean that to be an indictment of
your efforts which I find personally quite persuasive. But of course, I`m
not supposed to believe in them. Do you feel like you`re making progress?

INGLIS: You know, I`ve been in a couple of challenge races. One I
was successful, one I was unsuccessful. And, you know, when you`re a
challenger, you can feel momentum long before the pundits start seeing the
momentum. And that`s how I feel in this situation. I can feel some
momentum. For example, the college Republicans in Wisconsin just recently
passed a resolution saying let`s act, let`s do something about climate
change. They said, you know, Wisconsin is the birthplace of the Republican
Party, good ideas come from here, so the environmental right starts here
now. That`s a data point that helps me. Another one is a colleague of
mine and I from R Street won a debate among conservatives. When
conservatives heard for an hour and a half this discussion of these topics
of a revenue neutral government shrinking carbon tax, they said yes.

HAYES: That`s interesting you say that. Because you`re focusing on
the solution, the revenue neutral carbon tax. The idea is, you put a price
on carbon, you don`t expand the size of government one cent, right?

INGLIS: Right,

HAYES: And what`s interesting is we talked about this the other night
that part of what is leading to denialism on the right is the sense that
the solutions would have to be things that Liberals like myself love and,
therefore, the problem can`t exist. Do you think if you focus on this
solution that will be more amenable to conservatives, you can get them out
of that thinking?

INGLIS: Yes. I think so. I think if we can present this as pre-
enterprise which is what it is, the only role of the government would be
being the cop on the beat that says all cost in on all the fuels. Full
accountability which is a key conservative concept. And if we can get that
point across and then say, which would you rather be taxing, income or
pollution? Make the swap. And if you do that swap, that tax swap, you can
also elimination some clean air act regulations. It would become redundant
when you price carbon. So, it`s a government shrinking revenue-neutral
carbon tax. Now, the problem, Chris, though, is that there`s -- the folks
on the Left they are talking different things --

HAYES: Well, that`s what I wanted to ask you, actually, very quickly.
Should I shut up about this? Am I making it worse by talking about it?

INGLIS: Well, if you could help us clear the wreckage on the left
hand side of the road, it would be good. You know, the country is a center
right country, once you drive on the right hand side of the road. My party
conservatives want to drive on the right hand side of the road. But we are
distracted in the destination ahead by the wreck of cap and trade, the
wreck of regulations that the President is proposing, and the wreck of a
carbon revenue positive carbon tax. We have to get rid of the wreckage and
then we can drive to the destination.

HAYES: I think that is shockingly naive. We`re going to have to go
back at it again. Former Bob, Congressman Bob Inglis. Thanks. That is
ALL IN for this evening.

"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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