updated 8/20/2013 1:16:22 PM ET 2013-08-20T17:16:22

THE ED SHOW
August 17, 2013

Guests: Ken Klukowski, John Fugelsang, Hakeem Jeffries, Nina Turner, David Cay Johnston

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED SHOW
live from New York.

It`s 5:00 Eastern. Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does being a good Christian mean fighting health care
reform or supporting it?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Repeal every single word of Obamacare.

SCHULTZ: There is this radical group of Christians that is trying to make
the case that it is of faith-based effort that this is the right thing to
do? Wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Health shouldn`t (INAUDIBLE) because of wealth.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: N no illness or accident
should lead to any family`s financial ruin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He talked about Obamacare in general term and how his
faith compels him to do this for the needy and people who don`t have care.
Is that using his faith to push an unpopular policy?

OBAMA: If you`re sick, you will finally have the same chance to get
quality affordable health care as everyone else.

CRUZ: Christian values.

Being a Christian.

Christian.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what
you think it means.

CRUZ: Far too many candidates wear their faith on their sleeve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You cannot be serious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want these benefits that hundreds of thousands of
Texans now have, you want them taken away.

CRUZ: That`s not exactly right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re not exactly the smartest guy I ever ran
across.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes? And who are you? Alfred Einstein?

SCHULTZ: Now, the point of reform is to lower the cost and make health
care affordable , not impossible for the middle class.

CRUZ: Thank you. And God bless you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Yes, God bless you.

Good to have you with us on THE ED SHOW. Folks, let`s start with a prayer.
Dear Lord in this house of worship called ED tonight, we bring praise to
you Dear Lord and give us the strength to fight back against these soldiers
of defeat and these soldiers of deceit when it comes to Obamacare. Give us
the strength to heal the sick and help the poor because we know that`s what
you want, Lord. Amen.

See, now, I have to start every show with a prayer as of late because there
is all this lying going on at town hall meetings across America with these
Republican congressmen going home saying that Obamacare is bad for America.
It simply is not. It is fantastic.

In fact, I would make the case that Obamacare, along with civil rights
legislation, that we passed back in the `60s, is the most moral thing this
country has ever done when it comes to a collective government body. This
is good for America.

And I won`t let them lie. They`re phony Christians. Phony Christians when
they say that they are Christian but then they want to take away from their
next door neighbor. They don`t want to be their brother`s keeper.

Here`s the bottom line. I`m still waiting for this evangelical pastor to
show up on THE ED SHOW and tell us is this Christian-like behavior to take
away health care from a fellow American? From a fellow citizen? From a
person of God? Is that what we`re all about as a country? Where is our
moral fiber?

A growing number of right wing Christians are coming out day after day
opposing Obamacare under their leadership. And as a Christian, I think I
have an obligation to expose their hypocrisy and call them out for all the
things that they are saying wrong and how misguided they are.

Make no mistake. There is no moral or religious case for taking away
health care from 30 million Americans. The fact it`s very simple. If
Obamacare is repealed, Americans will die. Children of God will die. Is
that the moral position that we have as country?

It`s a fact. Every Christian should keep this in mind. However, for
reasons unknown, Christians have been attacking the Affordable Care Act as
if it`s the devil.

Pat Robinson, America`s favorite doomsday prophet, said Americans must rise
up against Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBINSON, TELEVANGELIST: This example of state socialism is something
that Americans should rise up against. They snuck that thing by us. It
was strictly partisan initiative. But the famous quote from the then-
speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, we have to pass it so we can find out
what`s in it -- 2,600, 2,700 pages of gobbledygook.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Twenty-seven hundred pages? Is there a law somewhere? Is it
God`s word that if it`s over 2,700, or under 2,700, that we`re all sinners?

Now, Mr. Robinson, are we talking politics or are we talking the moral
fiber of the country? We as representative government have decided to do
this. To help the sick and to help the pour. Isn`t that your position as
a Christian? Because it doesn`t sound like it from that sound bite.

Unfortunately, it`s not only TV evangelists who are using religion to try
to steal your healthcare. You have a right to healthcare. We have voted
on this. You are an American citizen. We have rights!

Outgoing Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of the great state of Minnesota,
she is making the case that repealing Obamacare is the Christian thing to
do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Let`s repeal this failure before it
literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. Let`s not do
that. Let`s love people as people of faith. I`m a born again believer in
Jesus Christ. And I believe that as part of my duty as a believer in
Christ and what he has done for me, that we should do for the least of
those who are in our midst. That`s my personal belief and my personal
conviction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: She says that Obamacare is going to kill people.

Michele Bachmann has used her faith to advance her celebrity more than
anybody else in Congress.

The fact is that Bachmann is now using religion to try to steal health care
from 30 million Americans. It is downright despicable. It`s disingenuous
and she is a liar. Obamacare will not kill anyone.

As a Christian, Michele Bachmann should be ashamed of herself. Meanwhile,
the Christian movement against Obamacare, well, it is growing, because
that`s all they`re talking about at town halls.

As I showed you on this program last weekend, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas
received a standing ovation from a crowd of conservative Christians when he
said that he wanted to abolish Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: There is no more important regulatory reform that we can do than to
repeal every single word of Obamacare.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Regulatory reform. Do we want to reform the Bible? Do we want
to reform the Christian faith?

These people are phony Christians. They preach out of one side of their
mouth and they operate out of another. To the detriment of Americans who
need help, denying people.

Think about this: denying people with preexisting conditions health care is
morally wrong. Yet, they stand on solid ground in their mind that it is
the right thing to do. Denying 30 million Americans health care is simply
the wrong way to go. That`s not what we want as a country.

All this talk about how it`s an unpopular policy -- no, it`s not. It`s
not. This is what the majority of Americans want.

We should also point out to Congresswoman Bachmann that lying is wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: The American people lose control? What do they get? They get
health care, health insurance, I should say, that is more expensive than
anything they`ve ever paid for before and they get less for it.

Whoa, what a deal, Mr. President, Mr. Speaker. What a deal. The American
people -- especially vulnerable women, vulnerable children, vulnerable
senior citizens -- now get to pay more and they get less. That`s why we`re
here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Bachmann, do you have the guts to come to New York
and spend one hour with me on camera and let`s debate and let`s get the
facts out about Obamacare? I mean, why not? I mean, if everything you say
on the floor is correct, you could easily say it here in the studios in New
York.

No one ever challenges you about your faith. No one ever challenges you
about what you say and the lies you spew about Obamacare. Give me a
chance. I`m on bended knee. Come on, Michele.

You don`t have anything to lose. You`re not running for office again.
Certainly, you`re in command of the facts in your mind. You can certainly
stand your ground easily against me. Come on!

This is what they have done. They have isolated themselves away from the
real debate in question about what these folks are saying on the campaign
trail, and in the halls of Congress. They are lying to the American
people. Bachmann is wrong. Obamacare is not going to bankrupt anybody.

States now have actually set-up health care exchanges. Are seeing premiums
drop. In the state of New York, here alone, health insurance rates are set
to drop by at least 50 percent in the next year. Not only does Obamacare
save money by giving 30 million Americans health care and health insurance.
It lifts people out of poverty. It makes sure that they`re never going to
go bankrupt with a medical bill.

Americans are going to love this when this is fully implemented. Love.
That`s a heck of a word.

Let`s focus on love for a moment. Senator Mitch McConnell was in his home
state of Kentucky this week and he is starting to feel the love.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: There are a handful of
things in the 2,700-page bill that probably are OK. But that doesn`t
warrant a 2,700-page takeover of all of American health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Wait a minute. Let`s get out of the numbers. Let`s put the
number to the side about how big and thick the bill is.

Did you hear him say that there is a handful of things that are OK?

Let`s help the Senate minority leader from Kentucky out. I`ll give you two
handfuls. Here are 10 things that you are going to love about Obamacare.
Here it is.

Number one: 30 million Americans will get health care.

Number two: what we will see is preexisting conditions are going to be
covered. If you`re sick now, you`re going to be able to get insurance.

Number three: oh, this is a good one. You cannot get dropped by your
insurance company if you are sick.

Four: young Americans can stay on their parents` plan.

Here`s number five. Here`s the end of the first handful: free preventive
care. You can go and get a colonoscopy and not have to pay for it. You
know, the colonoscopy, you find out if you got the silent killer which is
cancer? Colon cancer?

Number six is free well women doctor visits.

Number seven -- the Republicans don`t like that because of the war on women
-- and here we are with free birth control. Isn`t that important? Isn`t
that a choice that society should have?

Number eight: you`re going to save money. I get calls on my radio show of
people seeing their premiums going from $1,100 to $650. That`s real
savings.

Number nine, the country is going to save money. The Congressional Budget
Office has done the math. We`re going to save $1 trillion over the next 10
years.

And, finally, the Medicare loophole, the donut hole, is closing. Now, if
you`re young, you don`t worry about that. But if you`re a senior, it`s a
big savings. How in the world can they go from town hall meetings and
consistently lie to the American people about those Mitch McConnell cue
handful of things that are good for America.

Here`s the political twist. They know, the Republicans know, their last
chance is to shut down the government. They know that one year from now,
this is going to be widely popular and this is going to set up the
narrative for the Democrats that they were the ones that went through with
Obamacare. They are the ones that are saving lives. They are the ones
that are bringing down cost with no Republican help whatsoever.

Think about being a Republican Congressman having these people stump for
you and go out there and campaign against a widely popular program that is
successful, and you didn`t support it. That`s not a very good place to be.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: is the Christian conservative campaign against
Obamacare dangerous for America? Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622.
You can always go to our blog at MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results
later in the show.

Now, let`s focus on the faith of this.

For more, let`s turn to liberal commentator John Fugelsang and also, Ken
Klukowski of the Family Research Council.

Ken, let`s go to you first. Thanks for being on the program.

What is your --

KEN KLUKOWSKI, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Thanks for having me.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

I`m a little perplexed at the Christian conservative position that aligns
itself with the Republican Party. What is the moral stance of Christians
to take away health care from Americans?

KLUKOWSKI: Well, there are several things. First of all, it`s not taking
away anything from anyone. If it`s not something that they`re
constitutionally entitled to, and there is no right to health care in the
Constitution. But for me as a Christian, from a public policy standpoint,
I want people to have good quality health care as possible, which is
actually why I opposed Obamacare.

SCHULTZ: So, the way the law is written right now, that if you have
insurance, and if you were sick, that cannot be taken away from you. Your
party who claims to align itself with the Christian conservatives, say that
they want to take that away. What`s the moral position on that? How you
can reason that that is morally -- that has real moral fiber to it when
you`re taking something away from a sick American.

KLUKOWSKI: There are several things, Ed. It`s because I`m a Christian,
I`m opposed to a system that will result in denial of care, delay of care.

SCHULTZ: Those two things you said are lies. You know that there`s no
denial of care. There`s no denial.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: We won`t let you say that on this program. Come on, be fair now.
This is a moral position.

KLUKOWSKI: These things are not free. Ed, Ed, these things are not free.

SCHULTZ: I`m not talking about cost.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: Ken, I`m not talking about cost. I`m talking about a moral
position, where a governing body, the people in a representative government
have decided to do this for fellow Americans. Yet, your position is to
take that away.

KLUKOWSKI: Well, under the -- as a Christian, I believe in submitting to
lawful authority. Taking care of public health and public safety and
general social welfare is a state issue.

SCHULTZ: OK, John, is this hypocritical?

(CROSSTALK)

JOHN FUGELSANG, LIBERAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean no disrespect to ken
when I say if Jesus came back today, it would be difficult to hear his
message of love and tolerance over the scream of conservative Christians
calling him a socialist.

Ed, what could be more Christian than sending 45,000 people back to die
because they can`t afford care every year? What could be more Christian
than telling sick children, they can`t get care because preexisting
conditions are back? What could be more Christian than putting another
$120 billion a year on the deficit?

Jesus said in Matthew 10:9, he commands his followers to heal the sick. In
Luke 4:40, he heals more people than can be counted. Don`t forget, the
Good Samaritan paid for an unknown health care out of pocket. This is why
the church built so many hospitals. They were following Jesus` marching
orders.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

Ken, let me ask you -- is this a good place for the Republicans to be on
the campaign trail? They`re going to waive the plastic Jesus in one hand
and they`re going to take away and try to repeal Obamacare in the other
hand.

KLUKOWSKI: Oh, I think when people get a sense of what`s involved with
Obamacare over the next couple of years, both in the 2014 midterms and into
2016, I absolutely think it`s a winning issue. If we look to countries
that have a national government-run healthcare system, like in Britain,
where you have to wait 55 days for cancer surgery, 43 days for heart
bypass. You talk about finding out what`s wrong with people.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: There`s waiting in every system. I had to wait six weeks for an
angiogram. Come on now. There`s waiting every where.

KLUKOWSKI: Let`s take good example. In the U.S., the average wait time
for an MRI is two days. In Britain, it is 100 days.

SCHULTZ: You`re not going to get in to see a doctor on a whim in this
country or any country for that matter. This is the moral question, the
religious question. Is it, I think conservatives purport to be Christians
are on shaky moral ground when you want to take something away with someone
who is on the verge of death? I don`t get that.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: That`s where people are going to have to decide.

John, I`ll give you the last word.

KLUKOWSKI: My wife is a practicing E.R physician.

SCHULTZ: My wife is a psychiatric nurse as well. So, you know, if we`re
going on share resumes we can do that.

I want you to have the last word, John.

FUGELSANG: Honestly, Ed, I appreciate the time. Republicans are terrified
of Republican created healthcare bill enacted by a Republican governor in
Massachusetts, upheld by the Republican Supreme Court saving Republican
lives. That`s what they`re terrified about.

In Matthew, Jesus says it. He lays it out. He says, you received without
payment. Now, give without payment.

SCHULTZ: All right. Ken and John, good to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate the discussion. Thank you.

A judge tries to stop Mayor Michael Bloomberg`s stop and frisk policy in
its tracks. I`ll have a reaction from Congressman Hakeem Jeffries.

Stay tuned. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Time now for the trenders. THE ED SHOW social media nation has
decided and now, we are reporting. Here are this week`s top trenders voted
on by you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Number three trender: Oceans 16.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A group of 16 public employees work at a county garage
on the Jersey Shore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seeing what happened with super storm Sandy last year,
it couldn`t happen to a better group of people.

SCHULTZ: The Jersey Shore residents are swimming in cash after winning
last week`s Powerball jackpot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re very happy, happy, happy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My poor husband is no longer poor. We lost our home
in the storm, so the first thing I`m going to do is buy me and my daughter
a home and bring my dog back home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just going to continue watching NASCAR racing all
Sundays.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Winners get to do what they want.

SCHULTZ: Our number two trender: the name game.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is Messiah a name or a title?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t think a judge could make me change my baby`s
name because of her religious belief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a title that has only been earned by one person.
And that one person is Jesus Christ.

SCHULTZ: A judge goes biblical on Tennessee parents during a court
hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Child support Judge Lu Ann Ballew ordered his name be
Martin McCullough (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What a kind of name is that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His name will be Messiah to me and everyone else.

SCHULTZ: And the week`s top trender: frisk management.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There might be some good news on horizon if you happen
to be a minority who likes walking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The federal judge has come down hard on one of the most
controversial police tactics in the country.

SCHULTZ: Critics scored a win, but the touchy subject still has many
defenders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s basically a catch and release fishing, except you
get to feel the fish up and shout at it a bit before throwing it back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Between 2004 and 2012, there were 4.43 million stops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also, almost all the fish are brown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifty-two percent were black suspects, 31 percent
were Hispanic.

RAY KELLY, NYPD COMMISSIONER: I can assure that you race is never a reason
to conduct a stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A young men of color being singled out, being racially
profiled every single day.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK: We are the poster child that
everybody wants to follow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now is Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York.

This story has captivated this city with the mayor`s race coming up. What
is right, what`s wrong in all of this, Congressman?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), NEW YORK: Well, this was a significant step
forward that was taken by the federal court. In a democracy, Ed, there`s
got to be a balance between effective law enforcement on the one hand and a
healthy respect for civil rights and civil liberties on the other.

And under the Bloomberg administration, the police commissioner has
obliterated that balance and has taken an Article 3 federal judge to step
in and try to restore it. Stop and frisk as a tool can be available to the
police department but it shouldn`t be abused and used in excess. That`s
what has been happening in New York.

SCHULTZ: The police commissioner says race isn`t involved here. Do you
believe that?

JEFFRIES: Well, when approximately 90 percent of the people who are
stopped, questioned and frisked over the last decade are black and Latino
and the overwhelming majority of those individuals are innocent, law
abiding residents that have done nothing wrong. The only conclusion, Ed,
that we can draw is that race is the factor.

SCHULTZ: Bloomberg says he is going to areas where the crime is.

JEFFRIES: Well, here`s the thing: they may be stopping and questioning and
frisking individuals in high crime neighborhoods. But they`re targeting
innocent law-abiding individuals. Not the individuals who actually are
committing the crimes.

SCHULTZ: What`s it done to the city? What are you hearing from your
constituents?

JEFFRIES: Well, part of the problem is that it has poisoned the
relationship between police and the community. So, I would argue that stop
and frisk in excess makes it harder for the police to do their jobs because
it minimizes the cooperation the police need to adequately promote public
safety. It has created a problem as it relates to the ability of the
communities of color to work cooperatively with the NYPD.

SCHULTZ: I want to play you an ad. One of the candidates for New York
City mayor is candidate Bill de Blasio. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s the only one who will end a stop and frisk era
that unfairly targets people of color. Bill de Blasio will be the mayor
for every New Yorker. No matter where they live or what they look like.
And I`d say that even if he weren`t my dad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: What do you think of that?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think it`s important that the mayoral candidates to
varying degrees, Bill de Blasio, of course, has addressed it pretty
thoroughly. But Bill Thompson, Christine Quinn, I their own ways,
certainly John Liu, others have addressed it with significant degree of
precision. It`s wonderful it`s been elevated --

SCHULTZ: He personalized it to a level.

JEFFRIES: Yes.

SCHULTZ: He is married to a black woman and his son is biracial.

JEFFRIES: Well, the reality is, his son, walking down the streets of New
York, he lives in Park Slope, can easily be a target for a stop and frisk
encounter simply on the basis of the color of his skin. That`s not
anecdote. That`s statistical reality.

SCHULTZ: Now, Bloomberg says that we are the model. I`m paraphrasing
here. He thinks other cities want to be just like New York. Should there
be a federal law against stop and frisk?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think the Supreme Court in Terry v. Ohio in 1968 said
that stop and frisk is constitutional. But there has to be reasonable
suspicion that an individual has either committed a crime or about to
commit a crime. And the problem, Ed, here is that in New York, the
reasonable suspicion standard has been completely obliterated and ignored.

SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us, Congressman. Appreciate your time.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Hakeem Jeffries here on THE ED SCHULTZ SHOW -- thank you.

Voting rights take a hit in the Tar Heel State. Our rapid response panel
takes on that topic and more.

And later, Wall Street is just booming. Thanks to tax-free trading.
Economist David Cay Johnston on how Congress can get them to pay their fair
share.

But, next, I`m taking your questions. "Ask Ed Live" just ahead, right here
on THE ED SHOW.

We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. We love hearing from our viewers.

Our favorite segment and our "Ask Ed" segment tonight, first question comes
from Linda. Linda wants to know why should Dems care if the GOP refuses to
debate to a wider audience. Is this a circus?

I mean, this is proof positive of intellectual deficiency on the part of
the Republicans. They`re trying to massage their message to the point
where they would, number one, not get full exposure to how they think,
where they would not be tested. I mean, I don`t think Americans will go
along with this at all.

This is a stupid move by Reince Priebus and the Republicans. They ought to
be asking for more debates if they believe in what they say. They should
be asking for as many debates as they can possibly get from any moderator
anywhere because if they truly believe that they stand on solid ground with
their issues, the last thing they should do is go pick and choose their
network and pick and choose their talkers to -- I think they might ask a
question but they probably make a statement looking for a response.

Our next question comes from Josh Jones. He wants to know, "Do you have
any advice for college freshmen starting a new school year this fall?"

Well, you can always get a podcast to the Ed Schultz radio show. It is
only 25 bucks for the entire year. That way, you`ll be on the straight and
narrow.

I say, follow the news cycle and relate it to your life, what does it mean
to you? How does it affect you? And the reason why I say that, this will
get you in the habit, thinking of what is America doing for me. What can I
do for myself? What are the opportunities out there?

And if you get both sides of the story, and you relate it to your life and
you pay attention to the news cycle, you`ll be much more informed to make
decisions later on and you`ll be a better citizen. Why would you want to
exclude yourself from what`s happening?

Stick around. Rapid response panel is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you back with us on THE ED SHOW. Thanks for
watching.

As the GOP desperately tries to overcome the gap with minority voters by
suppressing the vote with legislative bodies taking action on states around
the country, libertarian Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky wants you to think
that he is the champion for civil rights.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: There is no greater defender of minority
rights, if you include minorities to be the color of your skin or the color
of your ideology than myself, because I will stand up there with the most
progressive members of the caucus in the Senate and say, you know what?
Civil liberties are important. They`re important, particularly because of
some of the egregious things that happen in America`s history.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: He`ll even stand with progressives? You heard it right, folks.

Senator Rand Paul believes he is not one of the best. He believes he is
the greatest defender of minority rights. So, what does the greatest
defender of minority rights think about racial discrimination and recent
elections?

In an interview with WFPL, the senator from Kentucky said, "In this
election cycle, in the last election cycle, African-Americans voted at a
higher percentage than whites in almost everyone of the states that were
under special provisions of the federal government. So really, I don`t
think there is objective evidence that we`re precluding African-Americans
from voting any longer."

Really? Do you know what, dude? You need to get with the facts. You need
on get with the program, Senator. Facts are facts. Let me give you one.

In 2012, black and Hispanic voters waited almost twice as long, twice as
long in lines to cast ballots than white voters. That`s just a coincidence
in Kentucky, isn`t it? It`s a coincidence around the country in Florida
and Ohio. It is one of those coincidences, right?

Give me a break. This is not how democracy is supposed to be run. And do
you know what, Senator? I did not hear you being the greatest defender
when all of this was happening on Election Day. Certainly, there was
member of coverage leading up to the election about what voters, especially
minority neighborhoods were going to be facing.

But you were, as my old friend Robert Byrd would say, ominously silent.

Joining me now is our rapid response panel: State Senator Nina Turner of
Ohio, MSNBC contributor James Peterson and also, MSNBC contributor, Dr.
Michael Eric Dyson.

Great to have you all with us tonight. It never ceases to amaze me what
comes out of the mouth of Rand Paul.

How can anyone deny that voter suppression efforts have directly targeted
minorities?

Senator, your thoughts on this. You have fought the good fight. You have
been on the front lines. I remember doing a story with you standing out,
waiting, and also complaining about the number of hours and the number of
voting machines in certain neighborhoods.

How can he come to this conclusion?

STATE SEN. NINA TURNER (D), OHIO: Well, Ed, even life -- the life on Mars
knows that African-American voters and poor voters and people who live in
urban areas had to wait in longer lines. He is delusional. I don`t know
where he has been. It is obvious what the GOP is trying to do, not just in
the state of Ohio, but across this country. They`re trying to choke out
democracy.

The hallmark of our country is that we have made progress in this nation.
And we have elected officials who are trying to take us backwards and we
cannot stand for it.

And more importantly, we cannot be cool, calm and collected about folks who
are trying to deny the right to vote of anyone.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Dyson, does Rand Paul have issues of credibility when it
comes to being defender of minority rights?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, he went to Howard University
and fancied himself to be the defender, and yet he was roundly and soundly
defeated in that delusion. I think here again, people think because black
people made such an extraordinary effort. That despite the obstacles to
overcome them to get to the polls, that no obstacles exist. Now we`re
being, if you will, punished for our persistence as opposed to acknowledge
the obstacles and impediments that have been unfairly and unjustly put in
our place.

The reality is not only did we stand in line longer, there were efforts to
convince people that the voting day was a one day and not the other. That
the voting polls that shut down early. That that semblance and
disinformation that was deliberately pervade to African-American voters is
an extraordinary mark against the voting of American society.

SCHULTZ: And, Dr. Peterson, doesn`t this become a great ally for
minorities? It would seem to me group would be able to go to Rand Paul now
and say, you`ve declared yourself as the greatest defender of minority
rights. Can you help us with what the heck is going on in North Carolina?

JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I don`t think North Carolinians
are going to buy that from Senator Paul. I mean, I`m not sure what he
means by the color of his ideology, too. Maybe the panel can help me out
with that.

But, listen, the attack on voting rights has been systematic. When you
look at the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, when you look at the
implementation of all these voter ID laws, and they`re cutting early
voting. It is also very, very essential to democracy within the black
community, because churches organize around those Sundays before election
days to get out the vote, and there are politicians on the right who
specifically targeted early voting for these reasons.

So there is a systematic attempt to adjust. And Professor Dyson is right.
Preclearance was working or trying to keep one the different ways in which
they try to disenfranchise people. And the Supreme Court said because it
is working, we don`t need it anymore. And it`s actually the opposite of
that is true. So, it`s a challenging time for folk who are really invested
in democracy.

SCHULTZ: As I said in our opening segment, I think there are phony
Christians on the right. I also think that there are phony defenders of
minority rights who profess that they are the greatest when it comes to
defending.

Where was all this defense in Ohio? Where was all this defense in North
Carolina? Where is all this defense when it comes to long lines in
Florida?

I mean, Rand Paul is a fraud when he says that.

TURNER: The billboards that went up in communities of color in the state
of Ohio all across the state, where were they when the environment of
intimidation was created? To try to suppress the vote of folks. And
because they can`t win, they really don`t genuinely care about anybody that
a worker, about a woman, about children, they tried to rig the game.

And, again, our democracy cannot stand for anybody trying to rig the game.
And the GOP, they are doing that. We need to trust them and believe what
they say because they have let us know exactly where they stand through
their actions and their deeds.

SCHULTZ: All right. Our next topic -- suppression bills have been
introduced across the country in the wake of the Supreme Court`s decision
to gut key provisions of the Voting Rights Act. None of them have been
more radical than the one signed on Monday. Last Monday, in North Carolina
work the Governor Pat McCrory.

Here are some of the highlights: the new law reduces early voting by a week
which we`ve been talking about. The law gets rid of same day voter
registration. Where`s the upside there? It also ends preregistration for
16 and 17-year-old who want to get involved and requires voters to have --
listen to this -- a government issued photo ID.

Now, in 2012, 2.5 million ballots were cast in North Carolina during the
early voting period. That`s more than half of all of the ballots cast in
the election, 70 percent of African-Americans cast their ballot during
early voting, compared to just 52 percent of white voters.

Now, listen to this number. This is big in North Carolina. An estimated
300,000 registered voters in North Carolina do not have an accepted form of
government ID meaning a driver`s license. Dr. Dyson, what does this mean?

Well, this means that the rules by which American citizens put George W.
Bush into office are no longer salient, are no longer applicable. So, tell
me why? What is the difference? Could it be the color of one`s ideology?
Yes. Because they are progressive? Because they are liberals? Because
they would vote for Barack Obama?

There is a direct correlation between the voter suppression laws that we
see going on the books now and the attempt to tamp down on the African-
American vote. When you put all the together that Senator Turner and Dr.
Peterson have talked about, in concert with what you said, the reality is
that we have got a suppression across the board and it has to be addressed.

SCHULTZ: We can talk for hours on it. Great to have a great panel.

Nina Turner, James Peterson, Michael Eric Dyson, thank you so much.

Tonight in our survey, I asked you -- is the Christian conservative
campaign against Obamacare dangerous for America? Ninety-five percent of
you say yes, five percent of you say no.

Up next, Ted Yoho goes loco. And it is landing him in the land of
pretenders. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in pretenders tonight, Tea Party yokel, Ted Yoho.

Congressman Yoho professed his dedication to the Tea Party at a recent town
hall, first touting his support for Texas Republican Steve Stockman`s
potential birther bill.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. TED YOHO (R), FLORIDA: If it is truly illegal, he shouldn`t be there
and we can get rid of everything he`s done. I said I agree with that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yoho went on to claim that Obamacare is racist because the bill`s
tanning tax only affects white folks.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

YOHO: I had an Indian doctor in our office the other day, very dark skin,
with two non-dark skin people. And I asked this to him. And they started
laughing. I said have you ever been to a tanning booth? He goes, no, no
need. So therefore it`s a racist tax.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, he didn`t stop there.

While explaining his vote to cut food stamps funding from the bill, Yoho
insisted most people on food stamps didn`t really need assistance.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

YOHO: Not one person will lose a calorie or crumb that deserves it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Really? A strange sentiment from someone who relied on the
social safety net when he was out of work.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

YOHO: But Caroline and I when we were about 19 or 20, when Jimmy Carter
was in office, inflation shot up, interest rates went up to 22 percent, we
lost our job. And so we went on food stamps for about a month and a half,
two months.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: How about that? A 19 or 20-year-old kid might need a little bit
of help.

If Congressman Ted Yoho thinks he is the only person in history who has
ever deserved food stamps, he can keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Punching in, punching out.

Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

This is the story for folks who take a shower after work.

Wall Street is having another record year. Look at the Dow -- the Dow is
up over 15 percent since January. Big business has trillions of dollars in
untouched revenue. And average Americans are fighting for every penny they
can. There`s a very simple way to help balance the playing field. It`s
called the transaction tax.

Conservatives hate it. Wall Street hates it. But look what it would do
for America. Democrats have been pushing this for years. And it`s a story
that doesn`t get enough attention.

It`s very simple folks. This is what I said about it back in January.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Here`s five 20s. There`s 100 bucks. Visualize this. There`s
$100, OK?

Every time there`s $100, there`s 3 cents. I better get my piggy bank out
here. Just like that. That`s it. That`s it. A hundred bucks, 3 cents.
There you have it.

What could we do with $352 billion? Do you think maybe we could pay for at
least one of the wars? Or do you think maybe we could insure maybe another
30 people?

Do the math. That would pay for about half of Obamacare. That would
really make the righties happy.

But think about it -- why is it that, number one, Wall Street doesn`t get
prosecuted, number two, they get off scot-free on these transactions?

This is an easy thing. And nobody`s going to feel it. Everything is going
to be fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And guess what? Congress has done nothing this year, including
making any strides on the transaction tax.

But one of the leaders of the progressive movement is pushing it again.
Here`s what Congressman Keith Ellison said in front of a group in
Washington, D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: People like George Soros, Bill Gates,
Warren Buffett, Paul Krugman, Joe Stiglitz, Jeffrey Sachs, Dean Baker,
Robert Poland (ph), have all said they support transaction tax. And so,
the bottom line is we`re not broke. There`s plenty of money. It`s just
the government doesn`t have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Would it break Wall Street? Would it really cripple our economy?
Could we raise taxes on those transactions to the point where it could help
the Treasury?

For more, I`m joined tonight by David Cay Johnston, Pulitzer Prize-winning
journalist and author of "The Fine Print."

David Cay, great to have you with us again tonight.

Would Wall Street even feel the pinch of 3 cents on the dollar? And what
would it do?

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, AUTHOR, "THE FINE PRINT": Well, no. And I think it`s
kind of surprising that we are seeing this reaction against this tax.

It meets the basic virtues of the tax. It`s clear what it is. It`s easy
to apply. It`s progressive because it`s not going to affect what the
exemptions you and I doing a trade of 100 shares or taking money out of an
account. It`s for these hedge funds that deal with borrowed money, trade
by computer, and are in and out of the stock in a matter of minutes.

SCHULTZ: Well, this would -- 3 cents on $100. Why would Wall Street be
against this if it`s these automatic transactions that we`re talking about
that really doesn`t involve anybody? They just kick in.

JOHNSTON: Well, it will in fact cost them money. I mean, there`s a cost
there. When you`re doing billions of dollars and billions and billions of
trades, it will certainly affect those operations. But, you know, it
wasn`t so long ago that the cost of trading was way up here. Now, it`s way
down here. It`s become minute compared to 40 years ago.

But the real thing this is designed to do is not just raise money. It`s to
discourage speculative behavior with borrowed money, which means my or your
paycheck, that`s going on on Wall Street. These people are creaming the
market. They`re not adding to the economy. They are simply manipulating
the market and speculating in ways that add no wealth to the country.

SCHULTZ: And do you think it would help end the speculation or curtail it?

JOHNSTON: I think it certainly will. It will certainly lead these
managers to think more carefully about what they`re doing and to pull back
somewhat. So the revenue projections could be on a bit on the high side,
but, Ed, that would be a good thing.

And the conservatives have been attacking this is saying that it`s anti-
freedom, it`s confiscation of wealth. The British have had this tax since
the late 1600s. Singapore, that`s always cited by the right as a model of
economic freedom, it has a transaction tax. Hong Kong, another country
high on the Heritage Foundation`s index of economic freedom, it has a
transactions tax.

SCHULTZ: So can we just guess what it would do to the Treasury?

JOHNSTON: Oh. There have been some estimates it would bring in several
hundred billion dollars a year. The last estimate I saw, it would take the
deficit, which has already come down tremendously under President Obama, it
would cut it further in half.

SCHULTZ: Well, if it would do that, that would be absolutely amazing. I
guess --

JOHNSTON: Yes. It`s a virtuous tax, Ed. I think it`s a much better tax
than ones that hit people at the bottom. And it`s one of a number of
things we should be doing to address this concentration of wealth at the
top not from making better mouse traps and providing better services but
churning stocks and using borrowed money to speculate.

SCHULTZ: I want to ask you a question not on a different topic. The banks
are making money hand over fist. They are having a hell of a year. And
it`s good for them, the capitalists, whatnot. But the fact is, is that we
still see a real tight market when it comes to access to capital. Or am I
wrong on that?

JOHNSTON: Well, the fundamental problem is that the too big to fail banks
have grown about 50 percent since the economic crisis. We`re seeing less
and less competition. Small business owners, the people who get the
economy, new jobs and are growing, they are having a hard time finding
access to capital.

The very biggest companies, those 2,700, 2,800 biggest companies that I
often talk about in your show, they are sitting on several trillion dollars
of cash, more than they can possibly put to work, which is further evidence
that we need a tax system that makes that money go to work.

SCHULTZ: All right. David Cay Johnston, always great to have you on THE
ED SHOW. Thanks so much.

And that is THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. We`ll see you tomorrow at 5:00
Eastern. Have a good one.


END

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