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The Ed Show for Thursday, August 29th, 2013

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August 29, 2013

Guests: Eugene Robinson, John Nichols, Jennifer Granholm, Lee Saunders, Vincent Vittorio, Scott Paul

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Strike, we`re in it, OK? The Syrians are a
different breed of cats when it comes to retaliation.


any kind of open-ended conflict in Syria


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching The Ed Show. We`re here Monday through Friday 5:00 Eastern.

All right. Are you ready for shooting after the Syrians? Now I
respect what the President is saying, but once we hit them, we have no
control what the response is. There`s a lot of Democrats in Congress who
are starting to say, "Hey, wait a minute we need to vote on this." Some
Congress say, "It should about maybe they ought to come back early just
like the Brits did." I don`t believe that.

There`s no better time for Congress to be at home than right now.

Call a Town Hall meeting. See how many people show up for war. See
how many people show up for another conflict in the Middle East.

As our country considers to strike on Syria I think it`s important for us
to take just a little bit of a step back and learn a little bit here, you
know. I said it last time, I`ll say it again, I`m not in. I don`t believe
this is right call. Not now. Thankfully President Obama is handling the
situation very carefully.


OBAMA: We have not yet made a decision. But the international norm
against the use of chemical weapons needs to be kept in place and nobody
disputes or partly anybody disputes that chemical weapons were used on a
large scale in Syria against civilian populations and we are consulting
with our allies. We`re consulting with the international community.

And, you know, I have no interest in any kind of open-ended conflict
in Syria. But we do have to make sure that when countries break
international norms on weapons, like chemical weapons that could threaten
us, that they are held accountable.


SCHULTZ: Very convincing. No question about it. I`m still not
onboard. I`m glad to see the President of the United States is backing
away from this red line statement.

And we have to be fair about this. We do have a history of presidents
misspeaking and I think that we need to give the President a little bit of
room here if he decides not to hit Syria any time soon. If President Obama
does, if he says, "Yes," to hitting Syria, he needs to get the full
approval of the Congress and the President needs, I think politically both
Democrats and Republicans on board to do this. Because the political
climate in this country could get even nastier than it is right now.

Let me be clear. What`s going on in Syria is horrific. The use of
chemical weapons against civilians is beyond despicable and this Assad guy,
he`s a bad dude. But it`s a civil war. Once again the Neocons are
expecting our country to be the police officer of the world.

You know I`d rather have a President put his foot in his mouth than a
boot on the ground where it didn`t belong and this is going to get us in
trouble for a long, long time. You know Britain, Turkey, France and
Germany they have all indicated that they are willing to be willing
partners to get involved in this because chemical weapons were used by
Assad all of the evidence points to that.

Here is Prime Minister David Cameroon as the debate continues in


appalling scenes of death and suffering because of the use of chemical
weapons by the Assad regime. And I do believe we can let that stand. Now
of course any action we take or others take would have to be legal, we have
to be in proportionate. It would have to be specifically to deter and
degrade the future use of chemical weapons.


SCHULTZ: OK. I get all of that. Now, conservatives, take a seat
now. I`m going to say something good about George W. Bush. If Bush did
one thing well he isolated Saddam Hussein. The sell job globally was
awesome. Saddam had no friends.

This is a little different deal. We do not know exactly what the
response is going to be. The Russians and the Syrians are very connected
when it comes to energy and their economy. Especially putting he is a
wealthy man. He has business interest in Syria. Then of course there`s
the Iranians, the pseudo triangle of business friendship and arms exchange
in deals. This is different.

You mean to tell me that if we strike Syria that there`s not going to
be any Russian retaliation or any Russian support to the Syrians to come
back and hit maybe Israel? Come on now. This is some serious stuff before
anybody starts launching missiles at Syria we need to look at recent US

First, I want to point out the chemical weapons have been used in
countries in the past without the United States doing anything about it.
There is a president here. Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons to kill
over 3,000 Kurds during the Iran-Iraq war back in 1988. This horrific
attack was classified as a genocide and drew no military response
whatsoever from then President Ronald Reagan.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than 50,000 Kurds are in Turkish refugee
camps having fled their mountain homes in Iran and Iraq. They tell of
being gassed by Iraq and today the United States said it has proved they
are right.

CHARLES REDMAN: We condemn this use of chemical weapons as we have
consistently condemned Iraq`s use of chemical weapons in the conflict with

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the war with Iran which led the desperate
Iraqis to turn the chemical warfare.

According to US officials last March with the land war going against
them, the Iraqi`s bombarded one of their own villages held by Iranian
forces. Gas killed many villagers.


SCHULTZ: Many villagers were killed. Back then the United States
took no military action at the time.

Overall, we`ve been involved in a number of wars in the Middle East
and none of them have really gone very well. First up, the Iraq war, the
eight-year-old war one of the biggest mistakes this country ever made.
Over 4,000 American soldiers were killed, 32,000 wounded that bill still
coming in. Next is the Afghan war before of course the Iraq war that was
started certainly on justifiable circumstances. But wait a minute, the
resources were quickly diverted to Iraq, we know what the project for
Americans it was (ph) essentially wanted to do.

We are still fighting it today and it`s the longest war in United
States history. We`re not out of Afghanistan yet. Now going on 12 years
now, this war has claimed over 2,000 American lives and wounded 19,000 and
we`re still paying the bill. Remember how Iraqi oil was going to pay for

Now by the time we`re done, both of these wars are expected to cost
between $4 and $6 trillion. Then there is Syria, another one.

Now, the strike on Libya will be similar to Syria if it happens,
should I say the strike on Syria will be similar to the one that happened
in Libya if it does happen. We took Gadhafi out with no boot on the ground
which is good news but Libya is less stable today than before we got
involved. Militia violence is rampant the government`s authority is
limited, and the economy is crippled by corruption, and there are numerous
reports of increased Al-Qaeda activity in Libya.

We hit Syria? It could be the same situation. The Daily Biz (ph)
reported this week Al-Qaeda militia in Syria is stronger than any other of
the rebel groups. They made the -- they made the case of United States
involvement in Syria will only help Al-Qaeda.

Also what`s important to remember Syria`s defenses, they`re no joke.
The Russians have provided them with sophisticated anti-aircraft and anti-
missile technology. Russia has a very good relationship with the Syrians
as I said previously, and what are we going to do? Get up in a proxy world
with the Russians? That`s just what we need, right?

The Russian news media reported today that Russia is sending anti-
submarine, and ship, and missile cruisers to the Mediterranean Sea. So
let`s just reel this in just a little bit. Let`s feel for the President,
he`s on an island, the President has Democrats and Republicans saying,
"Don`t do this," and they are questioning it in a big way and they`re
looking for Congressional authority and approval to get this done. So the
President, he is in a tight situation, a no-win situation really when you
look at it.

And are you really convinced that President Obama has some real honest
brokers over there on the right that all of a sudden when it comes to a
major conflict, they`re willing to work with this president and dirty
politics won`t get involved in this situation? Then there`s the core -- of
course there is the taxes, OK. Are you ready to pay for this? Are you
ready to pay for this or how about a Syrian war tax? That will run the
Republicans the heck out of here and don`t give me any talk about moral
obligation with the way we treat the poor in this country, and the way we
are shorting resources to communities.

Mr. President, again, not now. Not now. Do not do this.

Get your cellphones out, I want to know what you think tonight`s
question. Should the United States take military action against Syria?
Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622. You can always go to our blog at, we`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

For more on this, let`s turn to Eugene Robinson of the Washington

Eugene, great to have you with us tonight. Let`s talk about authority
right now. Is this the hot conversation in Washington amongst the
administration officials about what kind of legal latitude the President
has right now because I`m hearing from the members of Congress saying, "No,
you got to come to us." Where are we at?

EUGENE ROBINSON, WASHINTON POST: There`s a sense today that what
seemed to be moving faster or earlier this week has slowed down a bit. The
President had a conversation with speaker John Boehner today by phone.
Boehner raised a number of questions around the issue of authority and what
Congress should do.

One big question is, OK, Congress is gone, should Congress come back?
Should Congress be called back to consider this question?

You know, this is -- you said the President has no good options here.
I agree he has no good options here. Chemical weapons used is a different
thing. It is an awful thing and I really I`m concerned about the message
that is being sent to every tinhorn desperate in the world and about being
able to get away with chemical weapon used.

SCHULTZ: But we have -- see as I pointed out. We`ve been down this
road before in the United States turned a blind eye to it.

ROBINSON: Yeah, well he.

SCHULTZ: Reagan didn`t do anything about it. There was no
Congressional push to do anything about it at the time.

ROBINSON: Remember Saddam Hussein was our buddy at the time. He was
fighting Iran, and.

SCHULTZ: Well that`s even more hypocritical.

ROBINSON: Exactly. Well, of course.

SCHULTZ: I mean, for us to take his position, I mean the President
has no good options. But if we go forward and he comes to Congress, is
that going -- that`s going to make his justice abided. There`s a lot of
Americans out there right now, the polling you`re showing want (ph) to be
part of this.

ROBINSON: The polling is clear, there is no appetite -- there`s no
public appetite for anymore more in the Middle East. So, if you go back to
polls, then the President won`t do it. I think the President has to take
into account where he sees the US national interest and this is the
President who got into office largely because of his opposition to the Iraq
war which he called a dumb war. He`s never going to be a pass of this,
he`s claimed to be against dumb wars, and, you know, can you do a punitive
strike against Assad that does not imply and necessitate a longer US
involvement? I sure hope so.

SCHULTZ: Well, I mean the President -- legally the President is going
to have to go to the Congress and make the case that what is unfolding,
what is unfolding in Syria is of an immanent threat.

I had a couple of Congressional members told me today, they want to
vote. And these were Democrats, John Garamendi, one of them told me, he
says, "I want to vote on this." And it`s against the law, against the
Constitution if we don`t get a vote on this.

Well, that would mean if the President were to pull the trigger this
weekend, then he goes to Russia next week for the G20, I mean, they`re
really be drinking vodka then, won`t they? I mean that would be a hell of
a party. This is not good. This timing is terrible.

ROBINSON: Well, yeah. But the timings never be going to be good for
this. The timing is never going to be good to figure out whether or not
should need to do some sort of punitive strike against Bashar al-Assad.

SCHULTZ: And the big thing.

ROBINSON: .. it`s going to be -- it`s not going to be better in two
weeks. It`s not going to be better in a month.

SCHULTZ: No, it`s not. It is not. It`d be really good if we just
stayed out of it. We haven`t done anything for 2.5 years over a hundred of
thousands of people been killed. Now all of a sudden some people get
gassed and everything turns around for us.

ROBINSON: Yeah, you know, and Ed that`s an excellent point. What`s
the difference between the 100,000 deaths that proceeded these 300, or 1000
deaths from chemical weapon used, you know, I -- when you think about it.
There is a difference actually though and it really is something that you
have to think about it, and you or I would have to think about very
carefully and very seriously where we sitting in the oval office, the
prohibition, the prescription against chemical weapons used.

Saddam Hussein used them, Hafez al-Assad, Assad`s old man used them
against his own people in Syria.


ROBINSON: Before that you have to go back to the Nazi using them in
he camps to kill billions of Jews.

SCHULTZ: Well, obviously the.

ROBINSON: . and in fact the World War One. This stuff is not that
hard to make.

SCHULTZ: No, it`s not. And it`s very portable. There`s no question
about it. And.

ROBINSON: Yeah, it is.

SCHULTZ: . but the dynamic of this is so different. The ripple
effect could be so damaging, so fast in this information world. I just
think the President really needs to slow down here a little bit. I
guarantee, I bet anything if Congressional members go out in their district
they`re going to get an earful, they`re going to come back, they`re going
to have a hard time going against their constituents voting for this

And the next final question that I want to bring up with you. Are
there any Republicans that can be trusted on this as much as they hate the

ROBINSON: Well, I`m sure there are some. Are there many in the
House? You know, what do you say about the House Republican.


ROBINSON: . caucus, you know, I do think there are, you know,
National Security Republicans. They`re Hawkish Republicans who had -- who
have been pushing for an intervention from the beginning and who I have no
reason to believe wouldn`t stick with him and then some others would play
politics. That`s, you know.

SCHULTZ: All right.

ROBINSON: . but they`re going to do that anyhow and as far as the war
is spilling out of Syria`s boarders and having uncontrolled and the
consequences that`s happening now that`s already happening.

SCHULTZ: All right Gene Robinson, great to have you with us tonight.

ROBINSON: Great to be here, Ed.

SCHULTZ: . here on The Ed Show. Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. If I were putting something on our blog, I would say, "Don`t do
it. Don`t go to war, not now". By the way who`s going to pay for this? I
need Republicans to step up and say, "Hey, we`re going to pay for this,"
because you know what they`re going to do? They`re going to come right
back and they`re going to say, "Well wait a minute, we got to offset this
stuff. Let`s go right back to the big three and at the programs we`ve
always been after".

You can follow us on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook. We always
want to know what you think. Coming up, fast-food workers in 60 cities
going strike for super size wages. Is it going to work?

John Nichols was out in the back with them today. We`ll get the
latest. And later Detroit`s emergency manager downplays the city`s
struggles. Our Rapid Response panel gives us the real story from the motor
city. And a reminder, don`t forget to check out Chris Matthews on
Hardball, 7:00 Eastern coming up right after Ed.


SCHULTZ: Time now for the trenders The Ed Show social media nation
has decided and we are reporting. Here are this week`s top trenders voted
on by you.


GLENN BECK, RADIO HOST: They`re not as bright. I don`t care what
they say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our number three trender, dim bulb (ph).

BECK: I fire the person that starts to purchase fluorescent light
bulbs. I would like a memo, Stu (ph) from you that global warming is a
pile of crap.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glenn Beck joins the anti-green team.

BECK: The big tale as we call it in White House, we don`t need the
light bulb police. It`s the energy-efficient, mercury-laden, ugly and
smelly compact fluorescent light bulbs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two trender. The King`s speech.

BERNICE KING: And today is a glorious today. 50 years ago today,
father, the great liberator stood in this very spot and declared to this
nation his dream to let freedom ring.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the country celebrates MLK`s legacy.

OBAMA: The March on Washington teaches us that we are not trapped by
the mistakes of history and we are masters of our faith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The right attacks the event.

BILL O`REILLY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Now that kind of grievance
mongering does the cause of civil rights no good whatsoever. There is
little institutional bias anymore in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This thing has been totally hijacked. I mean this
thing has become totally radical. Real victims of racism are not on the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top trender, food fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The largest ever coordinated strike by fastfood
and retail workers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re told that this is just the tip of the
iceberg. That this is happening 60 cities across the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More fastfood workers join the fight for better

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not only are they asking for those higher wages,
the $50 now but they`re asking for the right to unionize.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to go back to school and I can`t go back to
school and when I make it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We work hard. I was just evicted two days ago and
I have to figure out where I`m going to get food everyday. I`m on the edge
of homelessness right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have two jobs just to make ends meet. Now I
should be able to be -- able to pay my bills when people realizing that we
have to stand to better ourselves.


SCHULTZ: Those are the faces of income inequality. Joining me
tonight John Nichols, Washington Correspondent of The Nation magazine, who
is out and about amongst some of those strikers today.

John is this the tip of the iceberg? What did you see? What did you

the tip of the iceberg and what`s striking is that these demonstrations
started small this morning and you actually saw that, that almost cinematic
phenomenon. Something from like a great old movie from the `40s, where
people inside restaurants saw folks out front and, you know, took their
hats off and walked out and joined the picket line.

This is a very courageous act. These are low-wage workers who don`t
always have this many options as they should. And yet they saw somebody
standing up for them and decided to join the fight.

SCHULTZ: Now, the fastfood industry highly profitable, corporate
profits are very solid. One in for workers in this country, in the private
sector make less than $10 an hour. Is there a moral obligation here?
We`re hearing a lot about moral obligations as of late. What`s the
corporate reaction to today`s activities?

NICHOLS: Well, unfortunately it`s been quite negative. One of the
national associations put out and said that this was a publicity stunt.
And there is certainly going to be some pushback it won`t be a quick

But what we know from previous fastfood strikes and actions last year
and earlier this year is that the companies quietly respond. There has
been some evidence that they`ve actually raised some wages and tried to
address some problems. So I think you`ll hear a public dismissal or
suggestion that it doesn`t matter that they don`t -- that they`re not going
to be bothered by it or affected by it.

But a private behind the scenes effort to respond in part because a
lot of the people walking out, Ed, are the best workers. Their outstanding
workers who really put in their time and they are standing up courageously
and saying, "Something has to be done about this income inequality."

SCHULTZ: I find it so ironic that yesterday the country honored Dr.
King and his speech, the anniversary, on a number of interviews back in the
`60s. He talked about a general strike the day after we honor it, this
happens. It started in New York City it`s gone to 60 cities. What`s the
next one and what kind of impact is this going to have?

NICHOLS: Well, I think it does have an impact because this has gotten
a surprising level of coverage. As I traveled around, I saw TV crews out,
I saw newspaper and radio reporters. This is being paid attention to and
that`s one of the most important things for the labor movement and for
workers movements in this country.

Ed, aside form this show, there`s not a lot of media that`s paid a lot
of attention to working people. And so the more publicity there is, the
more folks who are in this low-wage jobs start to feel like they can stand
up. That if they do ask for a better break, that they won`t be just
dismissed, that they won`t sort of disappear without any attention.

SCHULTZ: I don`t think these workers would unionize or demand it if
they got paid a living wage. I mean right now, the average fast food
worker annually makes just over 18,000, the poverty levels are 23,000 and
this is a profitable business for CEOs make big money so do -- so does
upper management. The store franchise owners do very, very well. What`s
the next step? OK, so the workers protest. Would there be a boycott of
fastfood? How will the snowball? I mean do you get a sense that it`s
going to end now?

NICHOLS: No, this is not going to end now. In fact it grows and one
of the most important first steps, Ed was actually seen on the picket
lines. Many of these pickets were joined by members of Congress. People
like John Lewis, the great civil rights leader and they`re saying they want
to take these complaints back to Congress and really push for a genuine
minimum wage increase not a -- not another quarter or $0.50 cents, we`ll
take it up to $10.

SCHULTZ: $10 is what they want. Yes, a minimum wage.

NICHOLS: Well, actually many are saying they want $15.

SCHULTZ. . $15, yes, they want -- they want it more than double it.
All right, quickly, chances on a scale of 1 to 10 of them unionizing?

NICHOLS: I think in some case as you could see unionization but the
restaurants will be very, very resistant that`s why these pickets are
really more of a broad demand than a specific unionization demand. They
just want better wages, some better hours, a little bit fairer treatment.

SCHULTZ: All right, John Nichols, Washington correspondent of the
nation out with the strikers today. Thanks so much.

Still to come, Detroit`s bankruptcy has tens of thousand of retirees
hanging on the balance. Now I know there`s some real good things happening
in Detroit but what about those folks right there? Their homes, their
pensions, their jobs I`ll ask our Rapid Response panel if these workers
will ever see their pensions. And later, made in America it`s a label
that`s been disappearing lately but a new movie is highlighting companies
that are keeping job right here in the United States. I`ll talk with the
film director. But next I`m taking your questions on Ask Ed Live, my
favorite segment coming up.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our
viewers tonight. Now, Ask Ed Live segment.

Our first question comes from an Ed show fan, Dennis Mac (ph). What
do you think of the NFL`s decision to compensate former players for

This came down today late this afternoon. So, I think about up for
$700 million is going to be going to the players who have suffered
concussions and had brain injuries. It`s long overdue. And this should be
just a start. And this billionaire NFL owners, I believe, have an
obligation to the players who`ve made this league what it is today. They
can do a heck of lot more for the veterans and they can certainly do a heck
of lot more for those who`ve had head injuries. This is a start I think it
is the proper move. No question about it.

Our next question comes from Chanel Latham. When are you going to run
for President?

Chanel, you do not want me as your President because you couldn`t keep
me in the oval office. I`d be burning so much jet fuel hunting and fishing
all over the country. Everybody would be mad at me. And I kind of like it
when people like me.

Stick around. The Rapid Response Panel`s next.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Now we spend a lot of time on
this program this summer doing this story. I said, I wouldn`t let it go.
I`m talking about Detroit, Michigan.

Thanks to Republican policies and I don`t care if the cities been
under Democratic ruler not as Republican policies that have comedown from
the state and the country that are put this city in a bad position. The
process of filing the largest public sector bankruptcy in US history it is
a perfect storm that has hit this city when it comes to outsourcing of
manufacturing jobs, the attacks on labor and unions and of course the cuts
in public services.

Now according to Emergency Manager Kevin Orr, the business district is


KEVIN ORR, EMERGENCY MANAGER: Where in the heart of Detroit right
downtown. This area is thriving. In fact, if you went up Wetburg (ph) you
see a number of new developments, a lot of housing, office buildings, other
developments, the new arena.

So the city center, the CBD, Central Business District is really
coming back hard. The issue that we have is how that we move some of this
development or some of this progress out to the neighborhoods.


SCHULTZ: Now I know how you stop progress of those neighborhoods by
slashing the pensions of the retired workers. Lots of conversation as of
late about moral obligations in America.

US bankruptcy judge is set to hear objections to Detroit`s eligibility
defile for bankruptcy on September 18th and 19th. If the judge finds
Detroit eligible or would be given the green light, the go ahead to outline
the plan that dump the cities $18 billions worth of debt.

He wants the pensions of retired workers on the table. The workers
haven`t done enough, they haven`t given up enough. I don`t believe that.
By the way, Jones Day is one of the law firms representing the city. It`s
the same law from where Kevin Orr was once a partner, just a thought I
throw that in.

They racked up by the way that firm nearly $1.4 million in legal fees
in just the first six weeks. City in state tax payers will foot the bill
and it`s not even clear if Detroit has the legal authority to file

Meanwhile, the pensions of 23,500 city retirees remains at stake.
Joining me tonight for the other side of the story, our Rapid Response
panel former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, and President of AFSCME
Lee Saunders, great to have both of you with us tonight.

Let`s talk. Governor, what happened in your opinion over the long
haul to Detroit, Michigan, and where is it right now? He says the business
district is thriving. Go ahead, Jennifer.

FMR. GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM, (D) DETROIT: Yeah. First I`ll clearly
the -- Detroit is the poster child for the deindustrialization of America.
In 1950, it had 300,000 manufacturing jobs. Today, it has less than 30,000
which means 90 percent of its industrial base is gone, and the question,
the bigger question which you infer is what does the United States do about
manufacturing in America about making jobs in this country in a global
economy. That`s a big question. It`s something that Detroit`s grappling

Today, Kevin Orr is right, there is huge investment or billions of
those of investment in downtown, the current mayor actually did a fabulous
job of convening the -- philanthropic community and a whole bunch of
stakeholders do a very detailed Detroit futures city plan which is awesome.
But the question is how can you get it done? Detroit, just quickly add,
Detroit is -- has got 20 square miles of vacant land, 20 square miles,
60,000 lots of vacant land. It`s a huge responsibility, but it`s also a
huge opportunity. Use that to say, urban pioneers come to Detroit for 5
bucks will give you a plot of land. You can`t just hold onto it, you can`t
speculate, but common make a go of it.

Your fear (ph) entrepreneur, if you`re a young person. If you`re a
business that wants to create jobs, that`s the big opportunity for Detroit.

SCHULTZ: Lee Saunders, your reaction to the workers may have to give
up more.

LEE SAUNDERS, PRESIDENT AFSCME: I think it`s ridiculous. First of
all, I think that the attack on the pensions of the 22,000, 23,000 workers
who have given their lives to the public service averaging $19,000 a year,
and their pensions where on the line. I just don`t think that`s right. We
think that it`s an illegal act. We think it`s an unconstitutional act. We
think it`s an immoral act, and that`s why we`re in court. And we`re going
to continue to battle this effort.

I mean, it maybe true that the downtown area is thriving that I was in
Detroit about four weeks ago, and all you have to do was walk outside that
downtown area, and you see houses that are abandoned, vacant homes. You
see -- it`s like a third world country in some of those Detroit areas and
we`ve got to creatively think, and I think the governor is right about
this. We`ve got to creatively think about how we can deal with the
problems associated not only with Detroit but with urban centers across
this country.



SAUNDERS: And it should not be attacking workers. It should not be
attacking pensioners who gave their lives to the city. We`ve got to come
up with other kinds of solutions.

GRANHOLM: Yeah, Ed you.

SCHULTZ: Go ahead Jennifer.

GRANHOLM: . you can`t -- just quickly, you cannot balance these $18
billion deficit on the backs of 70 -- 60, 70, 80-year-olds who are getting
19,000 a year in pension. People think it`s a disgrace (ph).

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s what they want to do. They write.

GRANHOLM: I know but.

SCHULTZ: . they want it on the table

GRANHOLM: They cannot do that by cutting those drugs. Now, there
maybe something they can do, you know, because of ObamaCare, on health
care, but that`s just not going to be the strategy for Detroit going
forward. Detroit has to have a growth strategy and not a cutting strategy.
Detroit is not too big, its economy is too small and that`s what has to
happen. And to me, that`s the biggest failure over the past 50 years of
this country is not engaging in strategy that keeps jobs in this country.

SCHULTZ: Governor, I got to ask you, did the state legislature
shortchange the city financially to help them given this hole?


SCHULTZ: That did happen?

GRANHOLM: Well, the revenue sharing for the city which was promised
under Governor Angler and everything melted down et cetera, that`s true.


GRANHOLM: . I can just tell you that the federal government can also
step up not to bail out, but for example, those pensioners, they need a
safe place to live.

SCHULTZ: What about that live?

GRANHOLM: . they don`t want to live an hour. So caps (ph) money, for
example, you can see funneling.


GRANHOLM: . of existing programs to help cities like Detroit. But in
urban agenda nationally is critical not just for Detroit, but for other big

SCHULTZ: What about the feds?

SANDERS: I believe that there is a role for the federal government.
I believe that the federal government can use a bully puppet to bring all
parties together, bringing labor together, bringing business together,
bringing those politicians together to talk about how we can resolve
realistically the problems that exist in Detroit. But let me make this
real clear Ed, the solution to these problems is not to attack retirees or
making $19,000 a year. Public service workers in that city have given.

SCHULTZ: Well they.

SANDERS: They have sacrificed same sacrifice wage increases, they`ve
sacrificed benefits and they`re asking their sacrifice more and that`s
unacceptable. You`ve got these multinational corporations who got tax cuts
of more than $1 billion.


SANDERS: . the same multinational corporations that took the jobs
overseas and they got this tax cuts and now they`re having to continue to
cut public education and public service is all over that state, that`s

SCHULTZ: I hear you in a big, big way. Now, I realized that there is
-- that the private sector is doing a little bit better in Detroit. This
is a striving downtown. But that lack of investment, this has been an
attack on unions, this is seriously been an attack on workers. But,
Governor Granholm, moving forward, what does this say about our
metropolitan areas that go through transformation that if this happens to
this worker, who`s to say it`s not going to happen in other workers in

GRANHOLM: Oh, I think that, you know, Ed it has been, you know, the
case, Detroit can be the canary and the coal mine in a bad way for other
cities. But, you know, there`s a lot going on in terms of people who are
suggesting ways to help out cities like this. For example, there`s a
pension benefit guarantee corporation for corporations that will guarantee
benefits when they go through bankruptcy but there`s no similar protection
on the side for public workers. Could there be something like that as an
innovation that would help cities that try to transform. How can the
federal government help Detroit call international, you know,
entrepreneurs, open the doors, while they`re doing immigration reform, do a
special visa for Detroit and say, "If you want to start a business in
America, come to Detroit, we`ll make a place for you."

SCHULTZ: Well they have to invest in Detroit if they`ve got all that
real estate, you`ve got all these workers that are standing around willing
to do something. Unemployment is high, what`s to hold up?


SCHULTZ: So, it`s certainly a story to follow. I think they`re doing
wrong by the folks who have given their lives to the city and they got to
rectify that. Jennifer Granholm and Lee Sanders, great to have you both
with us tonight. Thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you Ed.

GRANHOLM: Thanks Ed.

SCHULTZ: Up next, The Pretender isn`t kidding around with his
comments about the unemployed. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: And we have some breaking news tonight. British Parliament
has voted against taking military action against Syria. Prime Minister
David Cameron says he will not override the decision. And in our text
poll, our viewers tend to agree with 87 percent of you saying, "No, we
should not take any military action."

So, at this hour, the breaking news, the Brits are saying no to an air
strike in Syria. Lots more coming up. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, family guy, Steve King from Iowa.
The congressman equated unemployed Americans with children who don`t do
chores or won`t do them. Children who need be punished, King has the
solution. Just let him starve.


REP. STEVE KING, (R) IOWA: Be it over 100 million Americans that are
simply not in the workforce. Now, what kind of a family if you had six
kids and a third of your kids would say, "I`m not doing the chores, Mom.
I`m not carrying out the trash. I`m not mowing the lawn. I`m not going to
get gas for Dad. I`m not going to trim the trees or pick up the sticks or
do all the other things paint the house," that you have your family to do

If any of them say, "I refuse. I`m not going to participate. I`m not
going to contribute to the American GDP." Pretty soon, those kids would be
on a -- you get to eat after you do the work not just in hopes that you
might one day actually do the work.


SCHULTZ: To call the congressman`s assessment childish would be an
insult to children but that won`t stop me from giving him a time out.
Millions of Americans search for jobs everyday, fighting the odds against
limited opportunity in the workforce -- these aren`t chores, these are
livelihoods at stake. If Steve King wants us to believe struggling
Americans are just lazy, he can just keep on pretending.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the
folks who take a shower after work, the workers of America.

Right now, the core of the American economy is the financial sector or
the service industry. We have lost the core of manufacturing in this
country, the numbers are staggering, the eroding manufacturing sector which
once supported the middle class in our economy is dragging down our
nation`s economy, losing one job at a time.

This is why our recovery is slow. We`re not investing in
manufacturing. Since 1979, manufacturing jobs have been lost in this
country and since 2001, 56,000 factories have been shut down in this
country. Yet, there are everyday workers and businesses, finding new
solutions and innovations in an economy that threatens their businesses,
their families, and their way of life.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You weren`t just buying into the idea of working
in a factory. You were buying into a piece of the American dream.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knowing how to make things and making them here is
critically important to long term health of our company, and I believe to
this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not just where a corporation is based that`s
important. It`s where it actually produces things.


SCHULTZ: The stories of Americans producing goods made in the USA.
Well, successfully competing in the global market are profiled in a new
documentary called, "American Made Movie."

And we are joined tonight by Vincent Vittorio. He is the director and
producer of American Made Movie, and Scott Paul, President of the Alliance
for American Manufacturing joining us tonight.

Vincent, you first. What motivated you? What started this whole
thing? And where is it right now?

Thanks so much for having us on, Ed. You know, manufacturing is not what
it was after World War II, but I inherently believe that, you know, we`re
making a come back. You know, the American-made brands is something that
has become sexy and is something that people are embracing. And if we come
out there in great numbers and start purchasing things made in this
country, we`re going to bring manufacturing back.

SCHULTZ: Well, Scott Paul, how are we going to bring manufacturing
back? This seems to be a slow ride right now. It`s been -- the President
talks about it a lot doesn`t get much Congressional help on it. He`s got a
number of proposals on the table, but this is really the reason for our
slow economy or am I wrong on that?

absolutely right. That`s why we`ve had one of the worst recoveries from a
recession ever is because the manufacturing simply hasn`t come back as fast
as it should. We have gained some jobs back but what I like about this
movie is that it shows that what we all can do, what we can do as consumers
which is look for American-made products, what -- how we can be inspired by
some of the characters in this movie who have taken great risks to try to
promote made America and do it successfully. And also, what are the right
policies we need from here in Washington to make that Renaissance possible.

It is clear that the idea of made in America is back.


PAUL: It`s clear that it`s back but we need the jobs.

SCHULTZ: Vincent, how`d you go about finding these folks? I mean
these -- these are small business people across America that have started
from scratch and really had to do it after losing their jobs, isn`t it?

VITTORIO: No. It was definitely a task. We had a lot of stories. We had
a great research team that found a lot of inspiring stories of people that
are making things happen. I mean we`re making a lot of things here in this
country. There`s no denial of that. And we focused on a small business, a
medium-sized business, and then a large corporation. And by looking at
those, we`re able to give the viewer kind of an understanding of who is
affected and how this affects them on a different level.

SCHULTZ: If there`s one thing in common amongst all the people that
you have in your documentary, what would it be? I mean there seem to be
some kind of a very special passion about the entrepreneurial spirit.

VITTORIO: I think it`s that America`s a great place, you know. I
mean we have a lot of problems in that, you know. We`re dealing with
politics and we all have different opinions of what`s right and what`s
wrong, but ultimately this is the one country where you can have a dream,
you know. You can go out there, you can work hard, and you can succeed,
you know.

And I think that`s something that all of these people from the small,
medium, to large corporation, they believe in this country. And they
believe that, you know, we can bring things back and we can really improve
the state of manufacturing by getting consumers to realize that they have
the ability through their purchase power to change the phase.

SCHULTZ: How about Buy American, Scott? Is that still hot or make it
in America? I know the Congress has had a real focal point that made that
a focal point when it comes to jobs but how much is this documentary going
to help the push?

PAUL: I think it can only help because it shows that there is
consumer demand for this and consumers or voters. It shows that it`s non-
partisan, it`s without philosophy, and it shows that we need made in
America to make sure that we can have more of these success stories like
Vincent portrays in these movies, that we can have strong communities and a
nation that is able to create well-paying jobs. I mean your entire show
tonight, Detroit service sector jobs added all up. I mean the factor that
we need.


PAUL: . is manufacturing in its core. This movie gives a pathway.
And it actually asks people to do something definitely which is what I like
about it at.

SCHULTZ: Vincent, where could people see your movie?

VITTORIO: Well, they can visit our website,
It`s going to be opening this Friday in Chicago and Atlanta and then New
York and L.A.

SCHULTZ: All right. Great to have both of you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.

VITTORIO: Thanks so much, Ed.

SCHULTZ: And an update on the Breaking News. Prime Minister David
Cameron has lost a preliminary vote to take military action against Syria.
British Parliament has voted against it and Cameron says he will not
override this decision.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Rev. Al
Sharpton starts right now followed by Chris Matthews in Hardball. Rev.,
take it away.


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