updated 9/12/2013 11:05:33 AM ET 2013-09-12T15:05:33

POLITICS NATION
September 10, 2013

Guests: Nicolas Burns; Don Bear; Karen Bass; David Chico, Maddy, Faith Jenkins, Lisa Bloom, Ken Padowitz


REV. AL SHARPTON, HOST: Thanks to you for tuning in tonight`s lead
and extraordinary day and higher stakes diplomacy that could avoid military
strikes against Syria and give President Obama a peaceful resolution to the
crisis.

Here`s the latest. The Obama Administration is working with his
allies at the United Nations on a Russian plan to put Syria`s chemical
weapons under international control. Today, the Syrian government agreed
to that plan, admitting for the first time that it had these weapons. And
it announced it would sign a convention governing their use.

Secretary of state John Kerry weighed in earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We are waiting for that proposal, but
we are not waiting for long. President Obama will take a hard look at it.
But it has to be swift. It has to be real. Hit has to be verifiable. It
cannot be a delay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Meantime, today President Obama was on Capitol Hill talking
to lawmakers from both parties. A group of senators are working on a
resolution that would set a deadline for Syria to hand its chemical weapons
over to the U.N. If Syria missed that deadline, the resolution would
authorize the president to use military force. All of that is the backdrop
for today`s pivotal primetime speech for President Obama. He will address
the nation on the Syrian crisis at 9:00 p.m. eastern time.

In an interview at NBC News, the president said the U.S. must still
take a tough skeptical position towards Syria`s promises.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think a famous
American president once said trust but verify. You have to take it with a
grain of salt initially, but between the statements that we saw from the
Russians, the statement today from the Syrians, this represents a
potentially positive development. We are going to run this to ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Joining me now is Nicolas Burns, former U.S. ambassador to
NATO, now a professor at Harvard University. And Don Bear, former
communications director and chief speech writer for President Clinton.

Thanks to both of you for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Ambassador, let me start with you. There is obviously a
long road ahead. But let me just ask you bluntly. Did Syria just blink?

AMBASSADOR NICOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I think
Syria did just blink because of the prospect that of force being used
against them by President Obama. As the president said yesterday, it was
the threat of force that undoubtedly led Syria and Russia to this proposal.

I think the president is right to walk down this road and to see if
this Russian plan makes sense and to see if it can be implemented by the
United States and by the Syrians and others. Now, there are going to be a
lot of detail that have to be ask here, one of them, can Syria be held to
account.

We can`t rely on a promise to disarm by Syria. We have got to see it
happen. And what the president and the administration will want is some
kind of enforcement mechanism, both in a congressional resolution but also
Security Council resolution. And that is where the argument is going to be
with the Russians and Chinese. They will not support that.

SHARPTON: No. That`s where the argument is going to be. And there`s
no doubt the devil is in the details. But the fact of the matter is that
you are already hearing from Mrs. Pelosi and others that had the president
not put the threat of a military strike on the table, they would not have
even come to the point of saying they would sign a resolution less known
admit for the first time that they, in fact, do have these weapons.

We are dealing with people that used to say what are you talking
about? I don`t know. They are falsely accusing. Tonight, they have
admitted the weapons and we`re talking about locations. So, is this not
something the president can take credit for, Ambassador?

BURNS: Well, I think that the president is right to decide to delay
the use of force, delay the votes in the Congress, and to pursue this
diplomatic initiative. But, it is going to be very difficult, I think, to
work it out because we`re dealing with an untrustworthy regime in Damascus.
As you said, they have been lying to the rest of the world for decades
about this.

We are also dealing with President Putin. President Putin said
publicly tonight in Moscow that the deal is only good if the United States
commits not to use force. But that`s not the American position. The
American position is, OK, we`ll give Assad a deadline. He needs to rid
himself of the chemical weapons by that deadline which is going to be a
difficult thing to do. And if not, then we have got to have the ability to
tell him if he doesn`t meet that deadline, we will launch air strikes. The
Russians won`t agree with that. So this is a plan that we should look at.
It may not be a plan that can be realized.

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you Don Baer. You have been in the White
House under President Clinton. And with all of this going on today,
yesterday, president we knew was going to make a primetime speech tonight
which we will have live. But today all of a sudden we`re in the middle of
back and forward drawing a resolution, Russia, United Nations. I mean,
give us a sense of what could be going on in the White House. I would hate
to be the speech writer that`s trying to put all this together for tonight.

DON BEAR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR/CHIEF SPEECH WRITER FOR
PRESIDENT CLINTON: This is a speech writer`s nightmare, right? There`s a
part of you that just wants say to the president, take it from here, Mr.
President. But of course you can`t do that.

The fact is though, I think a lot of the core of the speech is going
to remain the same. I think you are going to see the president talk
graphically about the atrocities that took place in Syria with this
chemical weapons attack about the people, the 1400 people who were killed,
about the children who were killed, about how they died to really sort of
bring it to life. Which again, I think from a humanitarian standpoint is
critically important.

And I think to Nick`s points, you are going to see the president talk
about why they are credible and enforceable threat of the use of force has
perhaps brought us to the moment where there could be a diplomatic solution
here. But without that threat of the use of force, we wouldn`t be here.
And without the threat of the use of force doing forward, we can`t know for
sure that we can move forward. And indeed the United States Congress and
the people of the United States have to stand firmly in favor of all of
that in order for this to come to a peaceful resolution.

SHARPTON: Now, let me, on the point Don Baer just made, Ambassador.
Secretary of state Kerry said today the threat of force brought Syria and
Russia to the table. Let me show you the comment and I want to pose a
question to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: A lot of people say that nothing focuses the mind like the
prospect of a hanging. Well, it`s the credible threat of force that has
been on the table for these last weeks that has for the first time brought
this regime to even acknowledge that they have a chemical weapons arsenal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, if in fact that is the position of the administration
and you and I just discussed that and if that is so to the American people,
doesn`t it, Ambassador, put the Congress particularly those in opposition
to the president in an awkward position now to vote against putting that
threat or continuing that threat? If that vote goes down, as much as you
want to oppose the president if you`re in his opposition party, doesn`t it
put you in an awkward position to look like you are removing the threat
that could lead to resolution here?

BURNS: It does. And I think Secretary Kerry was right to say what he
said. And as you know, there are a group of senators on a bipartisan basis
working on a new resolution. And I think if we`re going to enter into this
high stakes diplomatic showdown with the Russian and the Syrians and the
Chinese, we need unity in Washington and the president needs to -- the
support of all of Congress.

So, I would like to see at a time when the administration wants to put
this forward, another congressional vote that would authorize the president
or support the president in pursuing a diplomatic initiative. But would
also authorize the president to use force should he have to do that.
Should the Syrian government renege on its promise.

We are dealing with cynical, brutal thugs in Damascus. They do
understand power. And so, they are only going to understand as secretary
Kerry suggested the power of the United States that remains on the table.
I think Congress now has a responsibility to support the president or else
the credibility of our own country in foreign policy is going to be
severely affected.

SHARPTON: Yes.

Now, Don Baer, who is the president tonight as makes this address
primetime? Who is he speaking to? To the American people? To the
Congress? To Syria? To Russia? To the U.N.? To all of the above? I
mean, what basis does he have to cover in his speech tonight?

BAER: My answer to that is yes, he is speaking to all those audiences
who have principally primarily he`s speaking to the American people. He
has to be able to rally support among the American people. If can do that,
members of Congress are going to have a comfort level and come along.

But obviously, he is speaking to the people in that chamber. He is
trying to help them understand that paradoxically, the only way that you
can achieve a peaceful outcome here is if there`s a credible threat of
force and the president has the ability to use force as necessary in order
to keep this process going.

And then, you know, there is no question he`s going to be sending a
signal to our adversaries around the world and maybe those handful of
allies that we have with regard t this issue to say to them we`re serious
about this. Now, I do --

SHARPTON: I will let you finish. Go ahead.

BAER: Well, I think there`s going to be an implicit message here that
says trust me to only use force in the last resort and that we`re going to
do everything possible to resolve this peacefully, but you have to trust
me.

SHARPTON: Ambassador Burns, Don Baer, thank you for your time
tonight.

And be sure to tune in for MSNBC`s coverage of the president`s address
on Syria tonight starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. We will all be here
with you tonight as the president addresses the country.

Coming up, more on the president`s speech, his diplomacy, and why
Nancy Pelosi calls it a big victory.

And brand new video just released by Lake Mary police show George
Zimmerman`s arms raised and handcuffed. Taken it away from questioning
outside the scene of the altercation at his father-in-law`s house.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep coming. Put your hands up! All right. Get
on your knees! Cross your feet!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Tonight, we hear live from Zimmerman trial Juror B-29. She
is here with reaction and reveals what happened behind closed doors.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The president`s big moment tonight and why liberals are
calling it a big victory, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: The president has
been trying for this. He has been striving to get the Syrian weapons under
international control. And now the Russians are suggesting it. So I think
this is a victory for President Obama if it is real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: If it is real. The Democrats and liberals will say it`s a
big victory for the president. He made the Syrians and Russians blink.
Others are saying, but it`s a long way to go and we don`t know if it`s
real.

Joining me now is Congresswoman Karen Bass, Democrat from California
and a member of foreign affairs committee.

Thank you for joining me, Congresswoman.

REP. KAREN BASS (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks for having me on, Rev.

SHARPTON: Have you decided whether you are voting yes or no on the
proposal to, in fact, go for a limited military strike before all of the
things that happened today?

BASS: No, Rev. I`m still undecided about that. And I will tell you,
for a lot of reasons. But I am excited about the events. And things have
been changing by the moment. It`s almost as though a door has been opened.
And frankly, I think all of us, the international community, needs to drive
a truck through that door. And we need to hold Russia and Syria
accountable.

This is an incredible opportunity. And I`m hoping that they will see
the light and they will be willing to go forward and destroy the chemical
weapons and let the world see to verify this.

SHARPTON: What do you need to hear tonight from the president,
Congresswoman?

BASS: Well, you know, we met with the president yesterday for about
an hour members of the congressional black caucus. And I know the case
that he made with us is the case he is going to make to the American people
tonight which is laying out what the situation was, what actually happened.
And then why we need to do what he is proposing.

But I also think that he is going to say that we do have an
opportunity here. As you know, Secretary Kerry was dispatched to Europe to
immediately begin negotiations. And so, now I think it`s time for an all-
out effort to push for a diplomatic solution. I think there is a window
there. And I think we need to do everything we can to make sure this
happens.

You know, just like was said a few minutes ago on your show, a few
days ago, Assad wasn`t even admitting he had chemical weapons. Well, he
has admitted that now. And conceivably he is invited the world in to
verify. We need to hold him to that.

SHARPTON: Now, the president also seemed to be mindful of the fact
that most Americans, many Americans if not most according to polls, most
are just weary of war.

Let me show you what he told NBC in an interview just yesterday.

BASS: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And I know how tired the American people are of war generally,
and particularly war in the Middle East. If you ask somebody, if you ask
Michelle, do we want to be involved in another war? The answer is no. I
have made my decision about what I think is best for America`s national
interests. But this is one where I think it`s important for me to pay
close attention to what Congress and the American people say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: So Congresswoman, the president is not unmindful of the
fact that the public doesn`t want another war. They are now saying that
maybe the strategy has worked to create a door opening to peace. But
again, we don`t know, the president quoted Ronald Reagan, trust by verify.

BASS: Exactly. But you know, I mean, count me in as one of those
that extremely wary of war. And you know, as a member of Congress, I see
our wounded soldiers every day because they come here and visit us on the
hill. But I do have to say that the other thing that the American public
is very weary of, is the fact that ten years ago or however long ago it
was, we were lied to. We were lied to about the evidence. We were told
that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

But we certainly have seen and I have, I have seen the videos and now
the world has seen the videos. I do believe that Assad used chemical
weapons. But if there is an opportunity to have those weapons revealed for
the world and destroyed and to have Syria sign the chemical weapons ban
just like 180-plus countries around the world, then we need to do
everything we can to force and to push a diplomatic solution. And I think
we have that window there and I certainly want to see that happen.

SHARPTON: The balance, I mean, people like you and myself have very
publicly questioned this. But the balance is also tomorrow we stop and
commemorate 9/11. And we`re also not unmindful of the security needs and
the terrorism potential that has already hit this country with great, great
tragedy on 9/11. So the balance is somewhere that the president has to
grapple with.

BASS: Exactly.

But, you know, we all have a role to play. And I think it`s time that
we call on and pressure Russia to hold its client Syria accountable and to
come and deal with the diplomatic solution. France said they are going
back to the U.N. Maybe it`s an opportunity for the U.N. Security Council
to do the right thing and for Russia not to veto this time.

SHARPTON: Congresswoman Bass, thank you very much.

BASS: Thanks for having me on.

SHARPTON: Coming up, newly released video of George Zimmerman facing
off with police. I will have an exclusive interview. Juror b-29 from the
Zimmerman trial, she will respond live to the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We got new video of George Zimmerman being handcuffed and
detained by police outside of an altercation in Florida yesterday. And
there`s new questions emerging.

Tonight, we hear exclusively from Maddie, Zimmerman Juror B-29. She
responds to the new take and reveals what happened inside the jury room.
It`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We are back with breaking news.

New video just released by Florida police show George Zimmerman
getting handcuffed and taken for questioning just minutes after he
allegedly had a violent confrontation with his wife and father-in-law
yesterday afternoon.

Police arrived on the scene in Lake Mary after George Zimmerman`s wife
Shellie called the police and told them that Zimmerman threatened her with
a gun, punched her father in the nose, and smashed her iPad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep coming! Put your hands up! All right. Get
on your knees! Cross your feet!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Police detained and questioned George Zimmerman before
letting him go without charges. Police searched him but didn`t find a gun.
They are now trying to retrieve video from the broken iPad that they
believe may contain evidence of what happened and that could potentially
lead the charges against George Zimmerman.

Joining me now is Maddie, Zimmerman trial Juror B-29 and her lawyer,
David Chico.

Thank you both, Maddie and Attorney Chico, for coming on the show.

DAVID CHICO, MADDIE`S LAWYER: Thank you, Reverend.

MADDIE, JUROR B-29 IN GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Thank you.

SHARPTON: And let me ask you, Maddie, because you have been very
candid and constructive. I think you`ve tried to be very positive in going
forward with this situation and I respect that.

When you heard this 911 tape, I`m going to play with Shellie
Zimmerman, Mrs. Zimmerman, called in the 911 yesterday. I just -- I want
to know as one who sat through that trial, what came through your mind?
What did you think about when you heard this? Listen to this call from
George Zimmerman`s wife yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN, WIFE OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: He`s in his car and he
continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying step closer. And
he`s just threatening all of us.

911 OPERATOR: Step closer?

ZIMMERMAN: With the firearm and he`s going to shoot us.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: He punched my dad in the nose. My dad has a mark on his
face. I saw his glasses were on the floor. He accosted my father and then
took my iPad out of my hands and smashed it and cut it with a pocket knife.
And there`s a lake Mary city worker across the street that I believe saw
almost all of it. I don`t know what he`s capable of. I`m really, really
scared. Dad, get behind the car or something. I don`t know if he`s going
to start shooting at us or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: As you hear that, what are you -- what goes through your
mind if anything?

MADDY: I believe that his wife, she knows exactly what is -- what
George Zimmerman is capable of doing. And maybe she must have been more
fearful because she knows that the truth is someone got killed a couple of
years ago over, you know, probably his anger or over the situation that
went about it. So when she`s calling and she`s saying that he has a gun or
he`s waving or he`s going -- she sounds like she`s fearful, like she knows
what she`s capable of doing.

SHARPTON: Now, let me show you this photo. TMZ obtained this photo
of George Zimmerman smiling with the owner of a gun manufacturing company.
This is the same gun used to kill Trayvon Martin. And he`s there smiling
posing with the gun manufacturer. The manufacturer of the same gun used to
kill Trayvon Martin. As someone that sat on that trial jury, how do you
feel about seeing him standing there smiling posing with the manufacturer
after this trial where he was acquitted?

MADDY: I believe that George Zimmerman has been smiling since the
first day he came out in the courtroom. He`s carried that smile all the
way through. He believes he`s very positive that what he`s done is --
there`s nothing wrong, and in my heart I believe that he to me is like a
mockery. He`s making a -- he`s not feeling bad. I mean, I can`t say how
he feels, but he`s just not showing any remorse of anything that went on
with the situation with Trayvon Martin.

SHARPTON: Now -- go ahead. You were going to say something else? I
don`t want to interrupt.

MADDY: And carrying a gun and being able to carry that gun again
gives him more right and I believe I heard a little bit of the wife`s story
where she expressed that he feels invincible. And it`s very hard to be
one of the persons that was had to deal with the deliberation and had to
deal with him being free right now. But just to know that in my heart, you
know, you feel that a person is guilty. But when it comes to a -- it gives
you so much that you can work with. You know, it makes not only -- it
makes me feel worse. The more I hear about George Zimmerman coming out on
TV because I feel like they`re giving him so much -- he`s becoming a
superstar.

SHARPTON: Now, when you say he`s becoming a superstar, it`s like he
won`t go away, he`s always in some kind of altercation. He`s in the
public. And you said at one of the early interviews after the trial that
you believed he had gotten away with murder. But that you had to do what
the law said. Now, when you say that, do you think the laws ought to be
dealt with or do you think that the judge didn`t explain it in a way that
gave the jury that you were on a chance to really deal with it? Or do you
think the prosecution wasn`t clear enough? I mean, what do you think was
the vague gray area?

MADDY: I think the gray area there was there was a set of laws given
to six individual. You have women that are more educated and more, you
know, that have been around people that are lawyers and they`ve been
around, you know, reading these laws. Yes, I -- you know, the jurors, we
all worked together and we looked at the evidence and the evidence was just
not there. And by the law, the way it was read to me, it shows that there
was no evidence to charge him guilty. And if I go with my heart which was
one of the things that the lawyers said that we could do was go with our
heart or we could assume -- or there was no what ifs. So since I couldn`t
do that, you know, I had to go by what the law said. And the law said that
he was not guilty.

SHARPTON: Now, there were those that said that after you and others,
there was one juror B-37 that had said it doesn`t worry me. I think that
he would be more responsible than anyone else on the planet right now. And
clearly there`s been several incidents since the trial but there were those
that were questioning what happened in the jury room. Did people pressure
people? Were people bullying you? You had said earlier that you had
believed he was guilty. Then a few hours later he wasn`t. Were you
bullied, Maddy?

MADDY: We -- I can`t say I was bullied. I really believe that most
of the women worked together and we went through the evidence and we
continued to go through the evidence. And there was just nothing that the
way the law was read to me could say that he was guilty. Now, as time is
going by and again you start hearing the news and you start hearing, you
know, the lawyers talking about the subject. Lawyers letting people know,
you know, this is how it could have gone. I don`t know how it should have
went. I`m not a lawyer.

SHARPTON: Right.

MADDY: You know, the worst feeling is to know that I`m the cause of
someone`s death. And to know that this man is still making a mockery where
he`s still showing off getting speeding tickets, walking around with a gun,
you know, who he shouldn`t have a gun, but, you know, it hasn`t even been
that long. There should be a time limit for you to even purchase a gun
after you have a situation like this. But I think the only way all this is
going to change is if we change the law.

SHARPTON: If we change the law. Now, Maddy, let me ask you this.
When you see video like you just se, I mean, does this bother you? Do you
think about it since you were on that jury?

MADDY: It hurts. It hurts me a lot. It bothers me because you`re go
right back to the stories where by the people that comments, by people say,
you could have changed, you could have done, you could have. And it`s
going back to making me think more and try to figure out what could I have
done? But to be honest with you, the more we think about what I could have
done, we`re wasting more time. I want to know what we should do now. I
mean, what could I do to help to change the law. What could I do to change
the situation? So it doesn`t happen to another child. I have a 20-year-
old. I have an 18-year-old.

I mean, I have my 13-year-old right now in constantly because he`s
going through a lot of the struggles of the situation. I want to know what
I could do to make a difference. I can`t continue to give George Zimmerman
all that power where he continues and everybody keeps talking about him.
Let`s talk about what we could do to change, to make a difference, to do
something. Because that`s what I want to do. I can`t continue to give him
-- let him be the superstar.

SHARPTON: And as you say deal with the laws and what can be done to
make this fair. I hear in your voice the concern of a mother and the
concern of a human being who like you said is not a lawyer, that just wants
to see what is fair and right for everybody`s child including I know you
had given statements of condolences to the family of Trayvon Martin.

MADDY: Yes. I struggle every day. I`m not speaking for the other
jurors.

SHARPTON: Right.

MADDY: But my assumption is, you know, everybody has moved on. And I
remember the first day that they asked me at the voir dire where this going
to be a hardship. No one explained to me that after I left this place, I
was not enable to have my life back. And people continue to say, you know,
you want your 15 minutes of fame. This is not to be -- this is not
something you want to be famous about. You know? What I am proud of is
that I stood by what I decided. Because it was given to me as it was read
to me.

If it was the jurors` fault, if it was the judge`s fault, or whoever`s
fault it was, it was the way the law was read to me or read to me. So as I
continue to keep saying that, I`ve always said George Zimmerman basically
George Zimmerman is a murderer. He killed Trayvon Martin, but only one
person knows and the only person that`s going to deal with it is God. I`m
a Christian person. I love God. And I believe spiritually, physically,
and mentally that this will be taken care of.

He`s putting himself through more stress. He`s putting himself
through more shows. And as you see his anger which Shellie was expressing
that he had anger problems. It`s showing right now. And all we could do
is let him fall on his own. I mean, you can`t do anything else. I mean,
we can`t -- I don`t want to sit there and make judgment on anybody else.
You know, or be in a situation like this ever again.

SHARPTON: If you -- and you`ve made it clear about the law and
changing the law and you dealt with it and the jurors dealt with the law.
But if you could say something to George Zimmerman tonight in light of all
of these actions and behaviors since the trial, if he`s watching tonight,
what would you say to Mr. Zimmerman?

MADDY: I really would like to ask George Zimmerman if he`s happy. I
mean, are you happy? Because I don`t understand how someone could continue
to keep a smile like that with all of the hurt he has caused.

SHARPTON: Wow. Thank you, Maddy, thank you Attorney Chico. Thank
you for coming on the show.

MADDY: Thank you.

CHICO: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, my legal panel reacts to juror B-29 and to some
more questions emerging. Did George Zimmerman tell the whole truth to
police?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We just heard a powerful interview with juror B-29 from the
George Zimmerman trial. Maddy and her reaction to the latest developments
yesterday, allegations of domestic violence by George Zimmerman by his own
wife in a tape -- 911 tape she made yesterday.

Joining me now is former prosecutor Faith Jenkins and Florida Defense
Attorney Ken Padowitz, MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Bloom. Thank you all for
joining me.

FAITH JENKINS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thank you.

LISA BLOOM, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you.

SHARPTON: I want to hear from everyone starting with Lisa, what`s
your reaction to what Maddy juror B-29 just said to me?

BLOOM: You know, it`s such a heart break listening to her. Because
she knows in her heart she says that George Zimmerman was guilty but she
felt that the law prevented her from finding that. And she doesn`t call
the other jurors bullies but she says that they had more knowledge of the
law than she did. That they know lawyer and it sounds as though they tried
to use that knowledge to talk her out of what she really knew. You know,
the problem here is that the jury instructions were so confusing that if
they had been clearer, this jury which was initially half to convict and
half to acquit could have come back with a conviction.

If the prosecution in closing arguments had walked the jurors clearly
through the manslaughter charge and showed that it really wasn`t that high
of a level of proof, showed how the evidence did fit into the manslaughter
charge, they could have gotten the conviction. You know, I see these
jurors as victims of the system just as much as everybody else in this case
was. The system really failed in this case.

SHARPTON: Ken?

KEN PADOWITZ, FLORIDA DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Lisa just articulated in an
excellent way. I mean, that`s exactly what I heard this juror say. It
comes down to the law and the law is extremely confusing. It`s as clear as
mud in the state of Florida. And especially when it comes to the stand
your ground law which was incorporated into the jury instructions, it`s
extremely confusing. And you can hear the disappointment in this juror`s,
you know, words as she describes how, you know, George Zimmerman is there
smiling and now again he`s attracted this kind of attention again with
police and with 911 calls and how disappointed she is that she believed in
her heart that he was guilty of a crime at the trial, but she just felt the
law didn`t allow her to come back with what she thought was justice. And
so it`s very disheartening to hear her say that, but I think she
articulated it in a very emotional, you know, meaningful way that most
people will understand.

SHARPTON: Faith?

JENKINS: You know, she`s stepping outside of the bubble she was in
with being part of a sequestered jury. And now with this other incident
that just happened yesterday, you`re seeing a bigger picture of who George
Zimmerman is. This is a person who has an awful lot of contact with the
police but it`s always playing the role of the chronic victim. He`s never
at fault. No blame, no shame, no fault, no consequences. And you see that
repeatedly. And she made a comment about what Shellie Zimmerman said,
Shellie Zimmerman said, I don`t know what he`s capable of.

We look at the history, we know what he`s capable of. Two thousand
five domestic violence case. Shortly after that, assaulting a police
officer having to take anger management classes that apparently didn`t
work. Killing a teenager. And now repeatedly using bad judgment.
Speeding. He doesn`t have to speed. Taking pictures with gun
manufacturers.

SHARPTON: The manufacturer of the gun he killed the teenager with.

JENKINS: Yes. And now getting into another domestic violence
incident where you know you`re being watched. Even if someone else starts
something, you stand down, you walk away. He knows who he is and the
consequences now of him getting into another altercation.

SHARPTON: We`re talking about who he is, Faith and Lisa and Ken. The
Lake Mary police told The New York Times, quote, "George Zimmerman said he
has no gun on him and we haven`t found a gun." The cops said they didn`t
find a gun, but Zimmerman`s own lawyer said he had a gun the whole time.
Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There was no gun, no gun found. We searched him
physically. There was no weapon or any weapon involved.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Did you search his car?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We did not search his vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Did George touch his gun, pull his gun, move toward
his gun during this disturbance?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: No, he has his gun, he was armed and what he did
like anyone with a responsible gun ownership, he made sure it didn`t go
anywhere from the outside. He put his hand to secure the gun was holstered
under his shirt. It stayed there the whole time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: So his lawyer said the gun was under his shirt the whole
time. The police said they didn`t find the gun. Was the lawyer lying on
him? Is the police lying? Or did George ditch the gun somewhere? Because
this is a blatant inconsistency, Faith.

JENKINS: Right. And so it`s not clear. But here`s what we do know.
When the police got there originally Shellie Zimmerman said his that he was
threatening with a gun, he has a gun on his hand.

SHARPTON: Yes.

JENKINS: But when the police got there, she then said that she never
saw the gun. They talked to other witnesses there and they said, they
never saw a gun. And they searched him and there was no gun on him. Now,
it appears the gun was in the car. Did he go and put the gun in the car
before the police arrived? We don`t know yet. But they decided not to go
search the vehicle because they didn`t perceive any circumstances and they
did not think they had probable cause to go and search the vehicle without
a warrant because the witnesses said --

SHARPTON: But Lisa, then why is the lawyer telling us exactly where
the gun was?

BLOOM: This is a huge issue. You know, usually it`s the other way
around. The police say that somebody had a gun and the lawyer says no, he
didn`t. In fact, the lawyer is now on tape saying that he did have a gun.
And as far as exigent circumstances, yes if George Zimmerman then was
objecting. But all the police had to do was ask him, may we search your
car? We know how George Zimmerman is with police. Sure, I`ll talk to you.
Sure, search my car. This looks to me like another example of police
incompetence when it comes to George Zimmerman.

You mean to tell me that his wife is on the phone hysterical saying
he`s threatening me and my father with a gun. He just punched my father in
the face. He just destroyed my iPad and they don`t even ask him can we
search the car? I mean, this is completely outrageous to me. And by the
way, Mark O`Mara said after the trial George Zimmerman is always going to
carry a gun. He`s always facing death threats. People are always after
him. He`s got more reason to carry a gun. Of course he had a gun. He had
it holstered behind in the back of his pants with his shirt covering it.
That`s the way George Zimmerman packs a gun.

SHARPTON: Ken, when you look at the exigent circumstances and he`s
continuing to do this, we`re told now that the police have retrieved the
iPad, the broken iPad and maybe there`s some video on there. But when you
hear this juror Maddy almost pleading let`s do something about the law.
Which many of us are raising the question on stand your ground and other
things. I mean, it is amazing to me how people would just have to be
insensitive to not look at how tragic this whole thing is for all involved.

PADOWITZ: Well, absolutely. And that`s the keyword here. Tragic. I
mean, it is very tragic. As tragic would happen to a teenager, it`s tragic
that this is continuing in the public eye that is taking the resources of
the community, police officers having to leave their posts and leave other
potential criminal issues that they have to deal with and come deal again
and again with George Zimmerman. So that is tragic, and clearly at the
scene, you know, there`s a very good argument that there were exigent
circumstances. That the police could have looked in that vehicle for a gun
since a gun had been originally reported and that this was a crime that was
being reported of domestic violence at the scene. So tragedy is definitely
something that can be described in this situation.

SHARPTON: Well, Faith, Ken, and Lisa, thank you very much. We are
definitely going to be all over this. No, we`re not trying to re-try the
case. We`re trying to do what Maddy said. Deal with the law and deal with
equal protection under the law. We cannot not deal with that particularly
after hearing this interview tonight.

Coming up, we`ll be dealing with other issues. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Obamacare is the number one job killer in America.
We need to have the will to defund Obamacare.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Obamacare is not controversial. It is universally
despised.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: How about we defund the whole damn thing.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Tea Party Republicans today on Capitol Hill once again
attacking President Obama`s health care law. And yesterday Sarah Palin
tweeted enough of this foreign fiasco distraction. Get back to work. It`s
time to bomb Obamacare. Well, why are they so desperate? Why are they
outside rallying and making some incendiary statements like Sarah Palin?
Because in 21 days, the law goes into effect.

People that cannot afford health insurance will be able to afford it
because of this president and because of this law. With all of their
efforts, in 21 days on October 1st people will have an opportunity that
they have not had. And they can rally all they want. The people will be
able to rally for their own health insurance and the protection of their
family against high insurance providers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: It`s time for "Reply Al." We`ve been getting a lot of e-
mails about our "Advancing the Dream" special. And this Sunday marks the
50th anniversary of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham,
Alabama. Today on Capitol Hill, leaders came together to award the
Congressional gold medal to the four girls who were killed that Sunday
morning in September 19th, 1963.

Their families attended the event to accept the award. The explosion
on September 15th, 1963, shook the country and marked a turning point in
the civil rights movement. I recently spoke with Condoleezza Rice who was
a child in Birmingham when the bombing took place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: My dad`s church was only
about two miles from the 16 Street Baptist Church. So, it was like the
ground shook. And for kids in Birmingham my age, I was eight, it was --
you know, how could these people hate us so much?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: As I sat and listened to Ms. Rice tell me about how the
ground shook and she felt it in her church two miles away, I thought about
how no one would have thought she would have grown to be the secretary of
state. We`ll never know what those four girls would have been if they
lived. That`s why we must stop hate. That`s why we must use the law to
justly protect young people.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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