updated 9/18/2013 11:28:43 AM ET 2013-09-18T15:28:43

ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
September 13, 2013

Guest: Robert Costa, Nicole Carty, Josh Barrel, Daniel Maree

CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Tonight on ALL IN:

We could be just five legislative days away from a government
implosion, but a shocking 44 percent of Americans agree with Republicans
that we should send the country into an economic abyss.

Also tonight, herpes infected monkeys terrorize Florida, but `sot even
the craziest headline to come out of the Sunshine State this week alone.

Plus, a job ad for "The Wall Street Journal" tells you everything you
need to know about the state of our economy and the state of the
journalism.

All of those stories are coming up.

But we begin tonight with a new poll that shows a plurality of
Americans favoring imminent catastrophe. NBC News/"Wall Street Journal"
poll shows 44 percent of Americans opposed to raising the debt ceiling,
with only 22 percent in favor.

Now, at first blush, that is both an upsetting and staggering finding
since not raising the debt ceiling would mean a government default and all
the cascading miseries that come after that. But, of course, what this
poll actually shows is that no one really understands what the debt ceiling
means.

In fact, the last time around we did this, in June 2011, a majority
didn`t want to raise the debt ceiling that either, but a month later, after
a great deal more attention had been brought to the subject, not the least
of which President Obama explaining to the public what it really meant,
those numbers basically flipped. Public supporting raising the debt
ceiling.

But the real point is that no one understands what is really going on
with the budget in Washington. This is the single biggest issue. The
single biggest issue, the president and Congress are fighting over now,
poised to do battle on all fall, and no one -- no one understands.

So, let`s just take a moment to look at why we are where we are, all
right?

There are two deadlines coming up. The first is a deadline for the
authority for the government to spend money when it runs out. That`s known
as the continuing resolution. That`s a piece of authorizing legislation.
It`s a short-term budget extension that expires on September 30th.

That as you will note from this handy-dandy calendar is just 17 days
from now. If a C.R. isn`t passed, the government can`t spend more money,
it shuts down.

Now, a few weeks later, somewhere between mid-October and November
5th, the country hits a so-called debt ceiling. The debt ceiling is this
stupid, artificial thing to allow the government to borrow more money so it
can pay its bills. Bills it has already incurred.

It`s a different thing that the continuing resolution, but it`s
another deadline and the thing to understand about the crises that are
happening right now, or threatening to happen, is that the Republican
Party`s strategic goal is to create as many opportunities for crisis as
possible so that in each moment of crisis, they can ask for a hostage.
That has been a strategy, explicitly and the reason they have the strategy
is they did it once for a big bang back in the summer of 2011, when
Republicans led by the Tea Party held up the debt ceiling and basically
want.

What they got was a whole process including what`s called the Budget
Control Act that ultimately led to the sequester. And the Budget Control
Act and the sequester, well, they really cut government spending. I mean,
that`s what they wanted and that`s what they got. They got cuts in the
first Budget Control Act. They got further cuts from the sequester kicked
in, and ever since, we departed from the path of a normal budgetary process
and we`ve got on the path of the Budget Control Act, we`ve had a series of
crises and that is no accident.

Republicans came in, broke the normal budget process and replaced it
with a series of ad hoc measures, each with its own deadline, each with its
own hostage, and this time around, the hostage is Obamacare, of course, the
Affordable Care Act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: And for the sake of
our economy, we`ll continue to do everything we can to repeal, dismantle
and defund Obamacare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: They are insisting on defunding Obamacare as the price of the
continuing resolution or raising the debt ceiling, sometimes one, sometimes
both.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), DEMOCRATIC LEADER: Now, Americans face the
prospect of another Republican manufactured crisis to shut down the
government. What`s interesting to note is the proposals Republicans are
putting forward are not proposals -- continuing resolutions to keep
government open. They are proposals to shut down government. They know
that what they`re proposing is not going to pass the Senate or be signed by
the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: That`s where we are as we head into the fall. As we gear up
for this political fight we`re all going to be covering and paying
attention to, there`s going to be a countdown clock to crisis, that`s where
we are and when people watch this, they feel like Washington is broken and
they are correct. Washington is broken because the Tea Party broke it.
They broke it on purpose. They broke the normal budgetary process,
replaced it with government recurring crisis, also, they can use control of
one-half of one branch of government to impose economic suffocation on the
country as a whole.

And question now is, will it work again?

Joining me now is MSNBC policy analyst and "Washington Post" columnist
Ezra Klein.

Ezra, I`m going to tell, I`m going to confess something to you.

EZRA KLEIN, WASHINGTON POST: I`m here to hear your confession.

HAYES: I`m here to give you my confession. You, "The Wonk Blog", you
guys write about all this, like continuing resolution, debt ceiling fight,
as well as anyone and I can barely bring myself to read it because it is --

KLEIN: Thanks.

(LAUGHTER)

HAYES: It is both so opaque and so frustrating. And so, before we
get into where we are now, I want you to tell me this and explain this.
There is a normal budgetary process, right? Like it doesn`t always have to
work like this.

KLEIN: No, it doesn`t.

Let me -- let`s try to make this a little less horrible to think about
or more horrible the less boring. So, yes, there`s a normal budgetary
process and it has nothing to do with any of this. What Republicans are
doing is very simple, makes a perfect amount of sense, usually, or at least
if you win election, which is that they are trying to get leverage from
terrible things happening to the economy to get concessions out of
President Obama.

HAYES: Right.

KLEIN: Now, the debt ceiling and government shutdowns, you`re
basically dealing -- a government shutdown, it isn`t the end of the world.
It`s a bad thing. The government stops working for a few days. We cover
it a lot. Polls turn against who ever made it stop working. In this case,
it would be the Republicans, and that`s typically that.

The debt ceiling is a scary one. And people talk about it and people
don`t know what it is, you have that great poll. We`re at the five-year
anniversary of the financial crisis here, the five-year anniversary of
Lehman Brothers failing. And the way to understand the debt ceiling is as
that on steroids.

The financial crisis is what happens when the financial markets
thought they knew how the world worked and all of a sudden, something
happens and it makes them realize they didn`t know how it worked and
everything they had done up until that moment, all the trades they had
made, all the assets they hold, they had the price wrong, they were simply
incorrect.

That is the debt ceiling. The financial crisis was what happened when
all their housing assets proved to be not what they thought. But even more
fundamental than housing to the global financial economy is the idea that
the U.S. government is a safe asset, that when you buy our debt, the
things, when we do this things we do, that you can count on us to do
rational things to pay you back your money.

If that happens, if the market, if the world has to reevaluate what it
knows about the U.S. as a functioning global economy, as a functioning core
part of the global economy, that would be a financial storm higher than the
one we had in 2008.

HAYES: Here`s what`s perverse about that, right? So, there`s two
different things, and we should be clear about it. When they talk about
the government shutdown, that`s a continuing resolution that they mocked
around like that and there`s a buff and that deadline is blown. You blow
that deadline, you get a government shutdown. You blow the debt ceiling
deadline for too long, you get something like default. One is manageable,
one is catastrophic.

But these two have both become conflated in the coverage and also in
the strategy, it seems to me, like --

KLEIN: Yes.

HAYES: -- every day, there`s a new article saying the Republican
strategy is to do this on the C.R. or to do this on the debt ceiling. How
do you disentangle them, like are -- should we take these bluffs seriously?

KLEIN: But the important thing to recognize, I really think this is a
key now. There is no strategy. There is no such thing as a Republican
strategy.

There was a time in 2011, it was just a whole different world. The
Republicans just won a huge election in 2010. It was an absolute storm
against the Democrats. They had a lot of momentum.

John Boehner and Eric Cantor, they had a strategy to try to extract
concessions, and the reason it kind of worked was because of a lot of
people felt, some of them in the White House, that the public really was
turning against Democratic view on the economy. And so, there was
legitimacy to what Republicans were arguing.

Nobody believes that now including, and this is really important --
John Boehner and Eric Cantor. There`s no Republican strategy. There`s Ted
Cruz and a couple of sort of highly conservative Republicans and highly
conservative activist groups trying to do a sort of 2011 like maneuver, but
the Republican leadership knows it won`t work.

So, the other day, the Republicans tried to solve this continuing
resolution problem and put something on the floor that would keep the
government funded until, I believe, mid-December. They pulled it off the
floor because they didn`t have the votes. They decided to delay the vote.
They had about 200 votes, 200 of it, necessary 218 or so.

And so, you do have a situation that is different here and that what
you have now is not a united Republican Party. It is a Republican Party at
war with itself --

HAYES: Right.

KLEIN: -- as some Republicans try to move forward in a way that is
somewhat consummate at least with having lost the last election. And then
some conservatives basically delusionally argue, well, we can just get
Barack Obama to defund Obamacare if we just work hard enough at it, if we
just threaten bad enough consequences. That`s going to backfire on the
whole party, and the Republican elite knows it.

HAYES: I want you to hold that thought because I want to bring in
Robert Costa, Washington editor for conservative "National Review", who is
as well-sourced in the House Republican caucus as any reporter that I read
and follow, who has been following this negotiation.

Robert, you heard what Ezra just said, which is that there is no
strategy or there -- I think this is more accurate. There is a doomed
strategy on the part of the activist base and no strategy on the part of
the leadership to avoid doom.

Is that correct?

ROBERT COSTA, NATIONAL REVIEW: Well, I think Ezra brought up a great
point. You saw Majority Leader Eric Cantor trying to come up with this
Cantor plan and that would allow conservatives, allow the right plank to
have a vote on defunding, but not really attach it to the continuing
resolution to fund the government.

But the minute Eric Cantor brought this up at one of these closed door
conference meetings, the conservatives, they revolted. They pushed right
back at the leadership. So, right now, you have a Republican leadership
Boehner and Cantor, that want to fund the government, but they don`t have
the votes.

HAYES: You`ve got right now, here`s what the math looks like. You`ve
got 233 House Republicans. You need 218 to pass something and 33
Republicans want to fully defund Obamacare.

I mean, you had Harry Reid today I think saying about John Boehner, I
feel sorry for him. And everyone`s constantly looking at him saying, the
guy has essentially the worst job in Washington. Like, what is the way out
of this box?

COSTA: Well, it`s a great question. I think as much it`s not a great
way out of the box, what you do see Speaker Boehner doing behind the scenes
is trying to tell us his conference, don`t have a shutdown on the
government.

He is using the 2011 model. He says, I was able to get concessions in
2011. We`ll fight for them in December or later this year on the debt
limit. Come with me. Let`s fight on the debt limit. I don`t want to have
a shutdown. It`s not going to help you with your races in2014.

That`s Boehner`s argument. But I`m not even sure that`s convincing
many conservatives, at least behind the scene.

HAYES: The thing about that is, Ezra, that`s an even higher strategy
--

KLEIN: This is terrifying to me that this is the argument.

HAYES: Yes.

KLEIN: The analogy of it is this is like trading a bad flue for
septic shock. If you trade the government shutdown for the debt ceiling,
it is the worst trade in the history of all trades you could possibly
imagine. And what you see there and this is a common criticism of Boehner
and Cantor`s leadership strategies. And I`d be interesting in what Robert
thinks about it, but they have a tendency to just get through this crisis
today by promising whatever they need to get through tomorrow and when
tomorrow comes, the problems, whatever they need then. So, maybe by
tomorrow, Wall Street will begin screaming at Republicans and big business
will begin screaming at the Republicans and everybody will tell them, you
can`t do this on the debt ceiling, and they`ll back down there.

But they do have these tendencies to make promises they can`t back up
later. They cannot get President Obama to delay Obamacare for a year to
raise the debt ceiling. He`s not going to negotiate with them on the debt
ceiling at all, they really won`t. And they kind of know it already and
they have no way of getting out of that, and all they`re trying to do right
now is live through this next deadline. They have no idea what they`re
going to do and they make the one after that was.

HAYES: OK, here`s the perverse truth at the heart of this, is you end
up in this you know, use the metaphor of game of chicken in these various
encounters before, right? And from a game theory perspective, it`s like,
if one party seems genuinely irrationally self-destructive, then they end
up winning the -- you know, the impact because the other party reacts.

And so, Robert, my sense is that the Tea Party folks who have
convinced themselves, we have won before using this strategy. If we bluff,
if we`re willing to like take the car over the cliff, like we`ll win this
one as well.

COSTA: That`s exactly right. In fact, when I speak to conservative
House members, I say what do you -- how do you really see this unfolding.
Tell me in a candid what`s your end game is here? They say look, we don`t
think we`re going to get a shut down, and we`re not going to get much out
of that.

But if we push hard enough on the debt limit, the argument is maybe we
don`t defund Obamacare, but we could delay, say, the individual mandate, we
could delay other provisions in the law. That`s their hope. It could be a
pipe dream, but that`s their hope.

HAYES: So, Ezra, you`re pretty well-sourced at the White House. I
mean, is there any chance that what ends up happening if you get this kind
of confrontation at the debt ceiling, you get this sort of game of chicken,
maximalist game, we`re headed towards this catastrophic ending, that the
White House has some kind of midway negotiating position like delaying the
individual mandate or picking up different parts of Obamacare to throw the
conservatives a bone?

KLEIN: No. And it`s saying this really clearly, the White House has
complete religion on the debt ceiling. They believe not just about this
negotiation, but about as a matter of presidential legacy. If they are the
White House remembered for permitting the debt ceiling to become a routine
matter of hostage taking in American politics, imagine you just think
there`s a 10 percent chance of any debt ceiling negotiation going on. It`s
not very big.

But over 10 years, it`s going to go wrong. This White House does not
want their legacy to be they set in motion the chain of events that led to
America`s role as an economic cornerstone of the world being degraded. So,
they believe not just as matter of this negotiation and what they can get,
but all negotiations going forward. They need to break this habit now.

And that`s why I am scared going into this. Nobody believes we`re
likely to go over the debt ceiling, and I don`t either, but if you look at
the positions on the table now, the White House says, we will simply not
negotiate, and Boehner`s and the Republican Party, we actually need
significant concessions, right now, the only thing that is there is the
default.

HAYES: Not only that, not only that, but that Boehner and Cantor and
the House leadership are essentially getting through the continuing
resolution fight in the near term by promising a bigger fight down the road
on the more consequential thing, which is the debt ceiling, which means
they are doubling down. They`re painting themselves in a corner to get
through this, then they`re going to have their, as we`ve been talking about
in the context of Syria and war, their credibility is going to be on the
line.

MSNBC policy analyst, Ezra Klein and Robert Costa, from "The National
Review" -- gentlemen, thank you both.

KLEIN: Thank you.

HAYES: There are good reasons and bad reasons to reschedule an
execution. Good reasons are new evidence and appeals. We`ll tell you
about a very, very bad reason, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: We always love hearing from you on our Facebook page and
tonight`s question is based on the Republican formula we were just talking
about, generating a crisis to get what you want. Hey, since it seems to
actually work, my question to you tonight is, if you could hold the entire
U.S. economy hostage to get one policy passed, what policy would it be?

Post your answers on Facebook.com and I`ll share some favorites later
on this in very show. And while you`re there, be sure to like us or I will
hold #click3 hostage. Please don`t make me do that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: OK. Here`s the best headline I saw all day. Herpes infected
monkeys terrorize Florida. Not a joke, real history. Rhesus monkeys
native to Asia have been running around parts of central Florida since the
`30s when six were introduced to the area by a local tour operator, like
Tarzan. Seventy-five years later, those six have multiplied to over 1,000,
with hundreds of them testing positive for herpes over the past decade.

Hide your kids, your wife, et cetera. But believe it or not, wild
herpes-infected are not the craziest thing happening in Florida right now.
Here`s a runner up headline from "The Tampa Bay Times" also, I would
caution, not a parody. "Execution rescheduled to accommodate Pam Bondi
fund-raiser."

Pam Bondi is the state attorney general of Florida. She`s been an
ardent supporter of Florida`s Timely Justice Act, a new law that allows the
state to execute people more quickly, except when that execution is in
conflict with a political fundraiser, Bondi`s hometown campaign kickoff to
be exact.

Governor Rick Scott had scheduled the execution of Marshall Lee Gore,
man convicted in the deaths of two women, for September 10th, but agreed to
postpone it when asked by Bondi`s office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Governor Scott, who supported a law this year that could
speed up capital murder cases, indicated he delayed this execution without
knowing the reason why.

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: I mean, we try to, you know, comply
with -- when another cabinet member asks for something, we try to work with
them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: That`s called team work.

Bondi now says she made a mistake, assuring folks she`s still follow
committed to the swift execution of executions. "As a prosecutor, there
was nothing more important than seeing justice done, especially when it
came to unconscionable act of murder. I personally put two people on death
row, and as the attorney general, have participated in eight executions
since I took office, a role I take very seriously."

And yet because we`re talking about Florida here, the rescheduling of
the execution for political fundraiser wasn`t the craziest thing to happen
this week. To me, this headline from "The Miami Herald" wins the day.
State tells navigators to stay away from county health departments.
Florida`s health department issued a directive this week telling its county
health departments that counselors or navigators hired under the Affordable
Care Act would not be allowed to do their job on the premises.

So, if you`re asking what does an Obamacare navigator do? They help
low income uninsured residents sign up for the state`s expanded insurance
program.

As "The Associated Press" reports, local health departments could
accept brochures and other outreach material under insurance under the new
state exchange, but the materials will apparently only be distributed if
someone asks for it. This order comes just weeks before the October 1st
launch date.

Governor Rick Scott who before he became governor, ran a network of
hospitals responsible for the nation`s largest case of Medicare fraud,
overcharging the government by keeping two sets of books. And along with
attorney general Pam Bondi, has thrown all sorts of legal challenges at
Obamacare. Well, he is now trying to discourage his own constituents.
Some of Florida`s most vulnerable citizens from enrolling in benefits they
are eligible for under federal law.

This is called governing by spite. So, if you are say a meagerly
compensated uninsured landscaper in central Florida, you better hope to God
you don`t get bit by a wild Rhesus monkey while trimming a tree because the
state isn`t interested in helping you get access to the health care
benefits you are legally entitled to.

Joining me now is my colleague Melissa Harris-Perry, host of her own
show that airs weekends at 10:00 here on MSNBC.

MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY, MSNBC HOST: Can we talk like really?

HAYES: Yes?

HARRIS-PERRY: Monkeys with herpes and Melissa?

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS-PERRY: Like we`re friends and I don`t really know what to do
with that.

HAYES: I`m saying there are lots of bad things out there, I would
like you to comment on them.

No, but for real, like I -- OK, you and I, we work on MSNBC and we
rage against Republicans acting poorly and you know, genuinely, and then
stories come along and I saw this story about them kicking the navigators
out, and I`m just like this is off the charts. This is not in the bounds
of normal politics. There`s a federal law that you can get health care.

HARRIS-PERRY: But, you know, and certainly, the bounds of this normal
politics and interestingly enough connected to the conversation you were
having about misinformation around the debt ceiling. This is not about
anything other than restricting access to information, right? Having
already lost the fight on policy, now, the question is whether or not you
can keep people from having the information necessary.

And on this, they are winning. So, the GOP has done an extraordinary
job of completely confusing folks about what the debt ceiling is, so now
people are against something that they`re actually for, because that
sounds, you know, debt ceiling, oh, that sounds like giving me a credit
card, right?

HAYES: Right.

HARRIS-PERRY: But similarly here, you have the reality that Obamacare
will work, the Affordable Care Act will work, to the extent that a large
group of people sign up.

HAYES: And this is what is amazing to watch this process unfold
because I remember back during the Iraq, when there were people, myself one
of them, saying we need to get out. This is right pre-surge.

And the rights line against those people is you are rooting for
failure. I remember that line being thrown.

No, I`m rooting for failure. I want our troops to come home. In this
case, you have a political party that is committed to rooting for failure.
You`re watching one party of Americans political system try to build up
this thing and another part sitting there hoping it just crumbled.

HARRIS-PERRY: And this is something different I think than a kind of
straightforward ideological battle about small state, big state, which I
think is a reasonable conversation to have in democracy. How big should
the government be, what sorts of things should the government provide?

But the reality is, in this situation, we`ve passed a law, a law that
has been actively attempted to be repealed some three dozen times, where
the Supreme Court has weighed in on it and now, at this point, it`s just
about implementation and the ability of it to work, as you pointed out, for
the most vulnerable citizens depends on that information being available.

HAYES: So, here`s the fascinating thing on the other side of this,
which I think throws a wrinkle into this narrative about kind of non-normal
politics. That the same time this is happening, even in Florida, Rick
Scott went for Medicaid expansion. Scott Walker, governor of Wisconsin,
Medicated expansion. We`re getting a report that Tom Corbett, who is real
right winger in Pennsylvania, particularly given the media and
Pennsylvania, is going to go for Medicaid expansion, so it`s like the
normal rules of gravity seem suspended and then they don`t in the case of
Medicaid expansion.

HARRIS-PERRY: Well, right, because Medicaid expansion, of course, is
about keeping their budgets flush, right?

HAYES: Right.

HARRIS-PERRY: And the idea these are stakes that could go bankrupt
without the funds that come in, basically free money from the federal
government. But it has everything to do with the continuing story about
inequality and the extent of which the very poor are still invisible.

So, to the extent that the very poor may end up getting covered under
the Medicaid expansion and you keep the sort of budgets in line, that`s
good for re-election in part because those very poor are invisible to those
middle class voters who say I still don`t have health care. I thought you
said Obamacare was going to bring me health care. I still don`t have it.

Well, the reason you don`t have it is because you didn`t know on that
October 1, you were supposed to go and sign up --

HAYES: Right.

HARRIS-PERRY: -- and have this. So, there`s a way in which actually
--

HAYES: So, like breaking the promise -- like keeping the promise is
kind of something off the political ledger books because it`s the middle
class voter you want to inspire the resentment and frustration --

HARRIS-PERRY: Exactly.

HAYES: -- which is what`s going the happen, of course, if they don`t
get the exchanges set up in time. I mean, this is really an open question
as we head towards October 1st.

HARRIS-PERRY: Well, and the navigators are such a smart part of the
law, I mean, I think that`s the other thing that`s so frustrating here, is
the sense that this is complicated. It`s complicated because there were so
many concessions and back and forth because it`s a democratic process, with
a little D.

And so, what you need was somebody to get you through it. This isn`t
politics. This is somebody who explains to you what the Web site is, how
to find it, what to buy there, what the different products look like, and
we know it is, in fact, the thing that would facilitate it working.

And it feels kind of like book banning, right? Like you just aren`t
allowed to have access to information and that sort of campaign of
misinformation is far more dangerous, I think, to the overall fabric of
what the country is even than any given sort of political battle over
policy.

HAYES: You know, we`re at each point that we go through, the
Obamacare fight, there`s this idea of like we`re going to turn the corner,
it`s going to be so successful and it`s going to be so popular. You know,
it`s like, OK, we get it passed. We set it up.

Like do you have moments of quiet, dark doubt as a scholar of
political science? As a person who supports health care for people? Is
this thing, are we going to turn that corner?

HARRIS-PERRY: Oh, yes. I mean, the fact is it`s a complicated law.
And, you know, every time I sort of engaging, especially if I`m prepping
for the show and reading and reading about it, I keep thinking -- why don`t
we have universal health care? Why don`t we just have Medicare for all?

You know, there is -- but, of course, I know the answer. We don`t
because that wasn`t politically feasible and so this is the best that we`ve
got, but it does worry me that at this point, we just can`t even operate in
good faith with our elected officials.

HAYES: And what I hate is the way in which the obstacles that create
complicated legislation, that people who threw up those obstacles and then
turn around on the back part of the process and be like, man, this
legislation complicated. It`s like complicated because you made it
complicated.

Melissa Harris-Perry -- you can watch Melissa`s excellent, amazing,
groundbreaking show which I watch every weekend. You can watch it at 10:00
a.m. here on MSNBC.

So, good to have you here.

HARRIS-PERRY: Thanks.

HAYES: We`ll be right back with #click3.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: If you`re wondering how the 1 percent is doing five years
after the financial crash, you need look no further at the job posting for
the Wall Street Journal. And, a sorority in Alabama rejects a black
candidate; but, it is not the candidate who goes public about it, it is the
sorority. Those stories are coming up.

But, first, I want to share the three awesomest things on the internet
today. We begin in Minneapolis, Minnesota who another desperate candidate
for mayor is getting naked. Jeffrey Allen Wagner says he wants to clean up
what he says is a corrupt system in the fair city of Minneapolis, so he`s
running for mayor and just released his first ad. It`s not clear what
Wagner`s platform is, it is not clear what his party affiliation is, it is
also not clear what the heck he`s doing in this commercial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY ALLEN WAGNER, MINNEAPOLIS MAYORAL CANDIDATE: You`re not the
ones deciding who you vote for, the media and the money is. I am cool with
making $100,000 a year. I will not take money from the developers. I will
not take money from the political angle. I will not even go to the strip
clubs any more. Wake the (EXPLICIT WORD) up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Tough to argue with that, dude. He says the ad is a metaphor,
telling the Minneapolis City pages. The Metaphor is, "I`m protecting the
Minneapolis Lakes from the sharks. I look at the residents as the water,
and the sharks are the corrupt others."

Paper also asked what Wagner would do if he wins. Wagner says, "I`m a
single guy. If I do win by some kind of computer glitch, my goal is to be
Minneapolis` most eligible bachelor." It is pretty whip. A notable goal
Mr. Earth Mayor Wagner.

The second most awesome thing on the internet today is a stunt put on
by the people at Volvo trucks. Apparently, they`ve got some new fancy
steering system and it`s time to put it to the test.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Today, we will test the steering system.
You will see a hamster steering a truck from the bottom of this quarry to
the top.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Yes, your truck ain`t nothing, until it can pass the hamster
test. These guys rigged up a hamster steering wheel contraption and using
an ordinary everyday carrot at starving little hamster, back and forth to
steer the truck up the steep and dangerous quarry road.

Does he ever get the carrot? Is this all staged to fool gullible
#Click3 producers? We never do find out. But, it`s all very dramatic and
the truck does naked to the top safe and sound. So, a job well done and
there was great celebration until the guy in the truck tried to drive home
with the hamster in his pants.

And, the third awesomest thing on the internet today is a rocket frog
reprisal. Yesterday in #Click3, we brought you the story of this NASA
photograph. A little froggy making one final giant lead prescience. The
picture has since blown up all over the internet. And, the frog has gained
more fame in death than it could have ever dreamed of in life, like an
amphibian Vincent Van Gogh.

The folks have released their findings of their photo shot contest.
Some of the handy works of their fans is inspiring from the frog on the
head of an icon Mr. Gorbachev -- tear down that frog to tank frog staring
down the battle of oppression. There`s a commercial like frog Jordan and
the chilly emotional frog heart of the ocean. The lists go on and on but
according to dead spin, the winner was touchdown rocket frog. In the back
of the end zone, it`s up and it`s good. You can find all the links on our
website, allinwithchris.com. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Five years ago, this Sunday, September 15, 2008, this was the
cover, the paper of economic record of "The Wall Street Journal." Crisis
on Wall Street as Lehman totters. Merrill is sold, and AIG seeks to raise
cash. This is a beginning of a wild ride as some people called the great
recession and others more accurately called the freaking collapse of the
global economy.

Five years later, Tel poll can take stock of how America responded to
a financial disaster that cost trillions of dollars in household wealth.
Some people have bounced back nicely incomes. The top 1 percent of
Americans has grown more than 31 percent. For everyone else, not so much,
only 0.4 percent of growth.

But, for the top 1 percent, "Oh, boy, was the fourth best year ever
for those at the tippy top." OK, so five years later, ultra rich doing
really well, everybody else picking up scraps. And, with that legal back
to the "Wall Street Journal" for one of the tastiest scraps you have seen
in a while.

A job posting on a career website for "Wall Street Journal" mansion
reporter. Let that one sink in for a second. A mansion reporter. In
addition to naming a skill reporter and feature of the job description
points out past covers included a profile of a billionaire from Kentucky,
who owns more than a million acres of land. And, analysis of the market
for the homes of college football coaches and an exclusive look at Larry
Ellison`s plans for the Island of Lanai.

So, never fear those of you with journalism degrees, who were worried
about the dying part of media market. You can apply your trade by
reporting absolute gluttony while dreaming of a future your chosen career
absolutely cannot provide. Now, let me be clear, gawking at an extravagant
wealth is nothing new. We have been doing it forever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMUEL TAYLOR COLERIDGE, ENGLISH PHILOSOPHER: Legendary was the
Xanadu where Kubla Khan decreed his stately pleasure dome. Today, almost
as legendary is Florida`s Xanadu, world`s largest private pleasure grounds.
Here on the deserts of the Gulf Coast, a private mountain was commissioned
and successfully built. 100,000 trees, 20,000 tons of marbles are the
ingredients of Xanadu`s mountain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: This kind of vicarious lifestyle entertainment has transcend
the generations. I cannot be only person, who loved this show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: On this episode of MTV Crib Pro
Basketball Edition --

CARMELO ANTHONY, DENVER NUGGETS NBA PLAYER: I am Carmelo Anthony, in
front of Denver Nuggets. How you doing, MTV? Danny Granger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: I also love lifestyles of the rich and famous and guess what?
They are bringing it back, which is of course fitting. We can start the
Nick Cannon versus Robin Lynch debate this fall. I`ve got to tell you, I
am in no way immune to the allure of this type of entertainment to this
very day. Here is a -- well, shameful secrete of mine. "It`s not unusual
me to sit in bed with my laptop and glass of wine, clicking through real
estate slide shows on the New York Times website; looking at ungodly
expensive homes I could not ever possibly afford."

And, so, I`m not trying to call out anybody for doing this best
because God knows I love it. But, I do think this job posting tells us
everything we need to know about this new gilded age we`re living in.

The American economy five years after we are in a brink is shaping up
to be one with a very small group of people, who have a lot of money and
the economy is powered by the hope that these people will hire enough yoga
instructors and landscapers and stone masons and private cooks and drivers
and whoever else they need to service their gigantic homes and then the
media companies will hire journalists specifically to write about those
giant homes.

We don`t have a manufacturing base. We don`t have a middle-class jobs
growing at all. All we have is a few rich people and a service industry to
service them. So, happy fifth anniversary financial collapse. May your
champagne wishes and caviar dreams come true.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: As a racial controversy swirling in the state of Alabama where
two young black women were rejected from traditionally white sororities at
the University of Alabama. Now, the University of Alabama obviously has a
pretty -- let`s call it intense racial history.

This is the place where 50 years ago, Governor George Wallace vowed to
block any black students from enrolling at the state universities. Vivian
Malone and James Hood were undeterred became the first black students to
enroll at the University of Alabama. So, it is not necessarily that
shocking that the school still has some racial barriers to get over in
2013.

What is truly surprising in downright encouraging is that it appears
that the current members of the sorority, Alpha Gamma Delta, were the ones
to blow the whistle on this bit of odious racial exclusion to the school`s
paper. Because according to the allegations, the sorority members
themselves were pressured by alumni to turn down the black pledge.
University of Alabama School paper quotes, Alpha Gamma Delta sorority
member Melanie Gotz who said, the entire house wanted this girl to be an
Alpha Gamma. We were just powerless over the alums.

But, it wasn`t just Alpha Gamma Delta, according to an unnamed member
of another all white sorority Delta Delta Delta -- yes, an actual real
sorority. It was the alumni, who stepped in and went over us and had her
dropped, adding that the potential black pledging question was such a catch
that it, quote, "Would have been a dog fight between all the sororities if
she were white."

The national headquarters of these sororities have denied having
anything to do with impressing upon their chapters to reject these women
chalking up to quote, Policy and procedures about the roles of
undergraduates and alumni play in the recruitment process.

Ten years ago, Carla Ferguson became the first black woman to pledge a
traditionally white Greek sorority. And, a decade later, she remains the
only one. A junior at the University of Alabama told "The New York Times"
that quote, "A lot of the students want to do something about it, but
there`s a lot of red tape from older people."

And, by red tape, I am guessing she means the old people who pine for
the good old days of segregation, by holding firm to tradition. But, the
older generation`s grip on tradition is weakening and not just at Bama.
This tale of generational difference on race is a small parable that sums
up a divide that stretches across the country.

Millennials arch the left of the center, not just on race and same
sexual orientation, but on economics as well. The most of them want a
bigger government with only 35 percent, preferring a smaller one. They`re
more likely to favor socialism by a narrow margin over capitalism and
they`re also the most rationally diverse age cohort and least religious age
group in the country as well.

And, now, in a big provocative article for "The Daily Beast," Peter
Beinart argues that this left leaning cohort isn`t going the age out of
their politics, but rather are destined fundamentally alter the center of
America`s political gravity. Minors are more willing than their elders to
challenge cherish American myths about capital in class.

There`s more reason to believe these attitudes will persist as long as
their age than to believe they will change. Joining me now is Nicole
Carty, an organizer with the other 98 percent grassroots network, the
Combats Economic Injustice. Josh Barrel, politics editor at Business
Insider and Daniel Maree, founder and executive director of the Million
Hoodies Movement for Justice, a civil rights organization that seeks to
stop violence against young people of color in the U.S.

Great to have you all here. Josh, as the resident right of center
individual at our table, what do you think of the broad thesis, which is
that these group of people -- people -- these cohorts are a little hard to
identify, but let`s say the 18 to 30 --

JOSH BARREL, POLITICS EDITOR AT BUSINESS INSIDER: Right.

HAYES: -- age range or right around this --

BARREL: Yes.

HAYES: -- Or substantively to the left of where the American populous
is.

BARREL: I think that certainly true now. I think it remains to be
scene whether that will continue to be true over the next 20 years and I
think it makes sense. This is a generation that is coming out of high
school or college at the time when the labor market is just terrible and
has been terrible for years.

These people are finding they can`t get jobs and I think a message
that is coming out of the republican party that basically just says well we
just need lower taxes and government to get out of the way and we`ll get to
work is not appealing to them. And, so I think it makes sense that
republicans are doing very poorly with this group. That said, I don`t
think it`s impossible for candidates to the right of senator to do well
with these groups. Chris Christie for example, is going to win a clear
majority of voters under age 30 in his election --

HAYES: Although, he will win that cohort by a narrower cohort than
any other that he win.

BARREL: It is not that much narrower. It`s still like a 20 point or
15-point lead that he has with young voters, which is not as well as he`s
doing in the older age groups. My point is simply that there is a way to
frame a right of center ideology that is about more than just hating the
government that can appeal.

HAYES: So, one of the things that Peter Beinart says in an essays,
which I thought was really important was he defines generation this way
that is not just like, "Oh, you were born between these periods of time;"
but also like the life experience at the point of formative experience,
which I think is the key thing to understanding this as something coherent
rather than just like, "Oh, these births happen between these two mark."
Do you feel like the crises, particularly of the last decade, have had this
kind of imprinting effect?

NICOLE CARTY, AN ORGANIZER OF THE COMBATS ECONOMIC INJUSTICE.
Absolutely, I mean I was 13 when 9/11 happened. I was 15 when shock and
awe happened. Bush stole the election when I was in seventh grade. So,
these are really firm kind of indicators of my generation.

We`re shaped by it. We were coming into our adulthood. We are coming
into ourselves when all these crises were happening. And, we graduated
into a dead economy. So, I think that, those are absolutely.

HAYES: What is the effect of that cumulatively? Like if you had to
describe, like, OK, you just said like a bunch of stuff that`s kind of a
bummer, right? Like bad, really bad stuff --

CARTY: Bad stuff, yes.

HAYES: -- or some of the -- you know, the worst mass murder event in
American history, the spectacularly horrible attack, horrible war, Katrina,
then the worst financial crisis in 70 years. I mean that`s all in a short
period of time when people are kind of forming their world view, like what
is the cumulative effect of that?

CARTY: I mean, I think -- that`s a good question. Well, probably
skepticism, honestly -- because I think that we have been kind of receiving
a lot of informations through a lot of different channels and we`re just
kind of skeptical. We are skeptical about politics. We are skeptical
about the system as it exists. We kind of want to go outside of it. We
kind of want to do things with better way.

HAYES: Yes. And, that is actually reflected in public data about
this cohort with trust -- trust in institutions is very low compared to
others. I mean that gets a very -- it is a very skeptical, do you feel
that way?

DANIEL MAREE, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MILLION HOODIES
MOVEMENT FOR JUSTICE: Absolutely. I think you are right on point. What
it says to me is that listen, we`re no longer going to rely on the
solutions that are prepackaged by our elders, by the older generation,
because something is not working. So, we`re going to come up with our own
solutions.

HAYES: But, isn`t that something people always say, right? I mean I
think the crack you fall into this conversation -- right? -- is to identify
something like a genuine break and like there`s a few things I think that
are genuine breaks, like the genuine financial crisis that was a once in a
70-year occurrence --

MAREE: Right.

HAYES: -- the actual depressed wages. I mean Beinart have the --
where he says like, you know, there was ten years in the 1990 to 2000,
where like wages went up by 12 percent and the ten years after, they went
down in the real terms.

CARTY: Yes.

HAYES: Like that`s a real effect.

CARTY: Yes.

HAYES: And, I want to ask you guys how that effects like people`s
political valiant? How they interact with the political system. What
their political allegiances are? Right after we take this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: We`re back and still with me are Nicole Carty, Josh Barrel and
Daniel Maree. We are talking Millennials because Yolo. Josh, what is your
-- Josh, you are this person who advertises interesting ideological space
in which you are kind of a reformed conservative --

BARREL: Right.

HAYES: -- like did you feel like it`s been informed by the period of
history in which you come to age as a political person?

BARREL: Absolutely. I think over the last few years, we went through
this economic crisis that was very clear that, you know, conservative
economic agenda had no solution for. I was surprised by the financial
crisis. It informed my views about bank regulation in way that the
government has a larger role than I would have thought five years ago.

And, I think for a lot of Millennials that you know most people are
not reading up closely on bank regulation, but I think they saw, you know,
what we were doing wasn`t working and the Republican Party hasn`t responded
to that in a way that addresses those concerns.

HAYES: Do you think that it is also -- I would not have before -- I
think the Trayvon Martin incident, I don`t think I would have included
civil rights organizing necessarily in a kind of like generational cohort
discussion --

MAREE: Yes.

HAYES: But, in the last year, it very much feels like that. It feels
like there is this like renewed energy around it.

MAREE: Absolutely. Well, I mean what this incident -- terrible
incident at the University of Alabama, it`s the exact example of what
Million Hoodies is fighting against institutional discrimination, right?
And, that`s exactly why we`re going for college students to start chapters
on their universities.

And, it is unfortunate for the University of Alabama because there`s a
ton of students at U of A, who I have had the fortunate privilege to speak
to over the course of the past year. They have a great marketing program
there. Young people who are interested in Million Hoodies and Trayvon
Martin, and yet this reflects very poorly on all of them. So, it is
unfortunate -- but you know, students there need to continue to put
pressure on.

HAYES: So, here`s an interesting question of this because I feel like
there`s this interesting kind of youth civil rights movement that has been
brewing and we talked to Phillip Wagner, the dream defenders -- The young
dreamers on immigration front. At the same time, it`s like racial
attitudes among this cohort are also getting better, right? So, there`s
kind of simultaneous process in which the attitudes are getting better and
there is also these discreet moments of radicalization.

MAREE: Absolutely. Well, I think -- first of all, I have to say I
love Peter Beinart. He is a mentor of mine and a dear friend. And, I
think he hits the nail on the head in assessing this new kind of wave that
we`re seeing within the millennial generation and you know, we have to be
very specific. It`s not the demographic necessarily. It is very much a
psychographic. You know Google calling it gen C. People who have this
mindset that we are going to do something differently and we are going to
use technology in order to do it.

HAYES: When you talk about the skepticism that you were referring to,
which I think is really widely --

CARTY: Yes.

HAYES: -- there is a sense of betrayal. I mean the bank crisis and
bailouts are a big example. One of the possible response to that is like
disengagement and apathy --

CARTY: Right.

HAYES: -- Like we are all screwed, because they are just lying to you
-- like you here that sometimes. You have seen on the Facebook page, like
they`re lying to you about everything.

CARTY: Totally. Facebook page all the time.

HAYES: But, do you feel like that, like what is the way to turn --
someone who`s organized folks, like what`s the way to turn that impulse
into the other impulse?

CARTY: That`s in fact a great question. But, there are ways. You
know, I think that you kind of have to show how people can make a small
difference, and then make a bigger difference. Once you start converting
people and bringing them to their own power basically and that is like
movement to a stage. It sounds kind of corny but --

HAYES: No, it is not.

CARTY: -- it is true, you know?

HAYES: What does that mean bringing people to their own power?

CARTY: People have to feel like they can change things. They feel
like well, this is just the system. It is so easy as a young person to
say, "Oh, this is the way it is. This is the way it always will be. These
were problems before me." But, we have to understand that this generation
is the biggest generation in America right now. And, we`re all coming of
age and we all have an opportunity to transform, to change the guard.
There`s like a huge --

HAYES: And, to really like genuinely drag the politics of the country
--

CARTY: Yes.

HAYES: I mean like -- You were saying it`s an open question, it is,
but if these political attitudes preserved like if they stay? It really is
going to change things. Nicole Carty from The other 98 percent, Josh
Barrel from Business Insider, and Daniel Maree from the Million Hoodies
Movement for Justice. Thank you all. That was fantastic. Happy Friday.
That is "All In" for this evening. The one and only "The Rachel Maddow
Show" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel. Happy Friday.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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