updated 10/21/2013 10:53:05 AM ET 2013-10-21T14:53:05

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
October 18, 2013
Guest: Duvergne Gaines, Barbara Buono


RACHEL MADDOW, HOST: Thanks to you at home as well for joining us
this hour.

You know, it has been 18 straight days now, 18 straight shows in which
the lead story on this show has been the government shutdown and the debt
ceiling and shuddering Republican Party implosion. 18 nights in a row that
has been our lead story.

And, of course, that story is not over. We are going to have more on
the shuddering Republican implosion later on in the show tonight.

But tonight, tonight, after 18 nights, we do not begin in Washington.
Tonight, we begin in a little courthouse in Topeka, Kansas.

We begin with this guy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRMS PRODUCER: Mr. Kline, do you yourself believe abortion should be
made illegal?

PHILL KLINE: Do I myself? Yes.

One other comment about that. I`m also anti-murder and I put a lot of
murderers away, too. I follow the law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Phil. God bless you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: That was Phill Kline. The former Republican attorney general
for the great state of Kansas and he was not in that courthouse that day to
put away a murderer. He was in that courthouse that day because he was on
trial. He had been holed up on ethics charges for professional misconduct.
And that drama came to an end today when the Kansas Supreme Court finally
took away Phill Kline`s license to practice law. They took his license and
he was the attorney general of that state.

The real drama in this case has always been that this Phill Kline
thing has been taking place against the backdrop of just incredible
violence in Kansas. In 1993, this woman walked up to a Kansas doctor who
just gotten into his car, at the clinic where he worked and she shot him.
She shot him through both of his arms.

He had been attacked before. His clinic had been fire bombed before.
But in 1993, they actually shot him. He came back to work the next day
bandaged up. He said he thought it was important to show his face, to show
that he would not be intimidated.

The woman who shot Shelley Shannon went to prison for shooting Dr.
George Tiller in Kansas in 1993. But the radical anti-abortion movement
saw her as a hero for having shot him. While she was in prison, she got
more than two dozen visits from this guy. Scott Roeder.

He told writer Amanda Rob (ph) that it was during those visits, to see
the woman who had shot Dr. George Tiller, that he started to think that
maybe he should be the guy to finish off what he had started. Shelley
Shannon had tried to kill Dr. Tiller, but Scott Roeder decided that he
should be the one to finish the job and in May 2009, indeed, Scott Roeder
stalked Dr. George Tiller at his church on a Sunday morning, entered the
church and killed him.

When the police pulled Scott Roeder over that morning after the
killing, he had a post it note on his dashboard with the name and number
for the policy director of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue on that
post-it note.

So, now, it`s Scott Roeder who`s in prison in Kansas, this time, for
having killed Dr. Tiller.

And now, the person who has struck up a jailhouse friendship with him
is a Kansas woman named Angel Dillard. She told "The Associated Press"
that just as the woman who shot George Tiller had been an inspiration to
Scott Roeder, Scott Roeder is now an inspiration to her. She said quote,
"Quite honestly, as soon as I heard about it, I realized he was able to
accomplish what those of us in the pro-life movement had not been able to
accomplish. We put in millions of man hours in, protested, millions of
dollars, attempts at legislation, and we were butting our heads up against
the wall. We were not getting anywhere, but with one move, meaning the
murder, Scott Roeder was able to accomplish what we had not been able to
do. So, he followed his convictions and I admire that."

That woman is now the subject of a Justice Department lawsuit for
making what the government says are death threats against another abortion
doctor, a doctor who tried to offer the first abortion services in that
part of Kansas after Dr. Tiller was killed.

Angel Dillard sent this letter to that doctor at her home and said, in
part, "If Dr. Tiller could speak from hell, he would tell you what soulless
existence you are purposely considering. Thousands of people are already
looking into your background, not just in Wichita, but from all over the
U.S. They know your habits and your routines. They know where you shop.
They know who your friends are and what you drive and where you live.

You will be checking under the car because maybe today will be the day
someone places an explosive under it. We will not let abomination continue
without doing everything we can to stop it."

That doctor thus threatened in Kansas never opened up a facility in
Kansas to provide abortions. In part she told us on this show it was hard
to find a place to open the clinic given there is a whole movement of
people in Kansas who have proven by their actions that they will fire bomb
you and shoot you if you open up a clinic like that, and they continue to
threaten that is what they will do after they`ve already proven that they
have done it.

And in the face of that record of murder and violence and intimidation
in Kansas, what has always been the most amazing thing from a national
perspective, from a broad-based American perspective, is that in Kansas,
the law has not always been on the side of people who are getting killed
and threatened and terrorized because in Kansas, there is a strain of the
conservative movement that has tried to put law enforcement on the side of
the people who are doing the killing. Not the side of the people who need
protecting.

Here`s how Republican Phill Kline ran for office in Kansas in years of
George Tiller had been fire bombed and had been shot before they finally
killed him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

KLINE: Ever heard of George Tiller? George Tiller performs late term
abortions in Wichita for years.

Another example in Kansas is George Tiller.

Abortionist George Tiller.

I want to first tell you who does not endorse attorney general Phill
Kline? Abortionist Dr. George Tiller does not Phill Kline.

(BOOS)

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

MADDOW: When Republican Party antiabortion activists Phill Kline got
elected Kansas attorney general for the whole state in 2002, the complaint
by the state bar that resulted in today`s Supreme Court ruling against him,
that complaint explains how just after he was elected within weeks of him
taking office, Phill Kline met immediately with his top staff to try to
figure out how to use the power of the state attorney general`s office in
Kansas to persecute Dr. George Tiller.

Shooting had not worked. Fire bombing had not worked. So, Phill
Kline wanted to see if he could come up with the way to use the law to put
him out of business.

Phill Kline ultimately brought dozens of charges -- misdemeanor
charges, felony charges against vote Dr. Tiller`s clinic and Planned
Parenthood clinic. Dozens of charges, none of which were sustained. They
were all either thrown out or the clinics were acquitted. Nothing he tried
to do in court stuck.

But in the course of bringing those charges, Phill Kline and his
office used fake statistics and false testimony and just flat out lying to
Kansas courts and grand juries to subpoena patient medical records from
Kansas abortion clinics. They got people`s medical records. To try to
protect patient`s privacy, the records did have the patient`s name`s
redacted.

But Phill Kline, in his zeal, unredacted the records. He and his
staff staked out the parking lot at Dr. Tiller`s clinic. They`ve laid
there and wait and watch people as they came out. They followed his
patients, and his employees and his visitors back to their cars and they`d
take town the license plate numbers to try to get names and addresses.

They went to a hotel that was nearby to the Tiller clinic and
subpoenaed the records from visitors who stayed at the hotel so they could
match the names of people staying at the hotel by cross referencing with
medical records from people`s abortions, to try to put names back on those
records even though they`ve been redacted. Having thus pieced together
records of women`s abortions including names and addresses and phone
numbers and identifying information and dates of their abortions and the
exact medical histories.

Having pieced all that together, he then made copies and moved those
records from the attorney general`s office to the open garage of one of his
employees to another guy`s car, to a local county district attorney`s
office. At one point, his employees took the full private medical files of
a whole bunch of named patients to the local Kinkos and spent a whole bunch
of time there copying them and leaving them lying around in public.
Eventually, those records ended up in a rubber maid tub sitting in a Phill
Kline`s staffer`s apartment for more than a month.

In the middle of this, Phill Kline actually lost his job as Kansas
state attorney general. He was defeated by a Democrat in 2009. His next
job was as a local county, D.A. But to his next job, he took those medical
private records with him, the ones he`d be able to get as A.G. and piece
them together from following around and everything. He took the records
with him.

Part of the state bar`s unprofessional conduct complaint against him
is that he lied to state bar when he told that those records had always
been under lock and key. Not only were they not only under lock and key,
in 2006, they ended up mysteriously on the Bill O`Reilly show, on the
"O`Reilly Factor" on the FOX News Channel. Suddenly, the tape of that
specific night of the O`Reilly show seems to have been scrubbed off the
face of the earth. The transcript of it still exists, but you can`t find
the tape of it anywhere, not even the clip.

But Bill O`Reilly somehow obtained all of those Kansas women`s medical
records, those medical records that had been knocking around in rubber maid
tubs in cars and garages in Phill Kline`s office while he said they were
under lock and key. Those records somehow made their way to the producers
of the Bill O`Reilly TV show on FOX News. But Phill Kline always denied he
had anything to do with that.

Well, today, Phill Kline lost his license to practice law by order of
a unanimous ruling from the Kansas Supreme Court. He is totally
unrepentant. He teaches law now at Liberty University in Lynchburg,
Virginia. That`s the conservation Christian school founded by the late
Jerry Falwell. The law school at the Jerry Falwell school says they have
not plans to fire Phill Kline or change his teaching responsibilities at
the law school now that he has lost his license to practice law for
professional misconduct, they say that has nothing to do with whatever it
is he`s able to impart to conservative law students in Virginia. They are
still very happy with him.

What remains the most amazing thing about this chapter in bloody,
bloody Kansas is the blurring of the line there between the kind of normal
antiabortion politics that are essentially mandatory in the Republican
Party right now and the radical offshoot of those policies, the radical
variant of those policies that seeks to enforce the antiabortion doctrine
through murder, through violence.

He was breaking the law and stealing medical records to bring trumped
up, soon to be thrown out charges against Dr. Tiller to try to put him out
of business, but almost every day of that trial, there`s sitting in the
audience was Scott Roeder, the guy who would go on to kill George Tiller.
He was there at the trial when Phill Kline was there able to get Tiller in
court.

Scott Roeder`s jailhouse friend is now threatening to kill the next
abortion doctor in Kansas, the lawyer who is defending her and her Justice
Department case, that`s him on the left with Angel Dillard. He`s the same
lawyer who Phill Kline appointed to be his special prosecutor to try to put
George Tiller out of business. That means the state of Kansas paid that
guy`s legal bills. The taxpayers of Kansas did not just pay to defend
Phill Kline for all these ethics charges, they paid the legal bills for
that special prosecutor, the guy who himself was one of the summer of mercy
protesters laying down in front of police cars trying to shut down Dr.
Tiller`s clinic in the `90s.

If you live in Kansas, you`ve been paying him, and when Phill Kline
finally got his own day in court, when the hearing started against him,
that resulted today in his losing the right to practice law, the courtroom
filled up that day in Topeka with his core supporters, the Republican
Party`s base for hard line supporters, for hard line antiabortion
politicians like him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHERYL SULLENGER, OPERATION RESCUE: We want to make sure these people
know there are people watching them and they`re accountable to the public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: She was there. That day that the hearing started against
Phil Kline in Topeka, the one that resulted in him losing his law license
today. That is the person who`s name and number were on the dashboard of
Scott Roeder`s vehicle the police pulled him the morning he murdered George
Tiller. That`s the policy director for Operation Rescue.

She herself has done time for bombing clinics. She`s there to support
Republican Attorney General Phill Kline all the way in the case that today
got him thrown out of the legal profession.

Joining us now is Duvergne Gaines. She is legal coordinator for the
Feminist Majority Foundation.

Duvergne, it`s great to have you here tonight. Thanks for being with
us.

DUVERGNE GAINES, FEMINIST MAJORITY FOUNDATION: Thanks for having me,
Rachel.

MADDOW: We have been following the saga of Phill Kline in Kansas for
a very long time. Is Phill Kline an outlier, or does he represent a part
of mainstream antiabortion politics that has flirted with the violence
side?

GAINES: Well, I think that he is definitely not mainstream and he has
cozied up to and been a member of a group, an enclave within Kansas that
has really created -- they are extremists and I would that say he is an
extremist.

What we see today is really a moment of justice for him and a moment
of justice in Kansas finally. Here he is, his license is suspended. I
wish they had permanently disbarred him, but at least for three years, his
license has been suspended.

But, you know, what he did, using his position of authority as the
attorney general of Kansas was fan the flames of extremism and Scott Roeder
himself cited his acquittal, the acquittal of George Tiller against these
totally baseless charges as the reason why he then proceeded to murder him.

And, you know, by fanning the flames with these completely baseless,
unfounded bogus criminal charges over and over again, someone like a Scott
Roeder or perhaps someone like Angel Dillard are led to an act of violence.

MADDOW: Duvergne, in your work for the Feminist Majority Foundation,
one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you about this tonight is that you
really do a lot of work focusing on the really radical side of the
antiabortion movement, the people who have excused violence or used
violence or threatened violence to try to get their way. What`s the status
of that part of the movement now after Scott Roeder? While we`re seeing so
much mainstream antiabortion legislature being advanced all over the
country, how is that affecting the really violent side of the movement?

GAINES: Well, you are seeing wide scale encouragement and emboldened
extremists in state after state. Where you see a TRAP law that`s been
passed, whether it`s Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, and right now,
we`ve got a situation in Albuquerque that`s very concerning. You have the
extremists now feeling as though they have the run of the place. It`s
their day so that they can go in, not only intimidate and terrorize, but
they actually have the backing of a legislature. Or an attorney general
and/or a governor who`s going to be saying things and further fanning the
flames that create climate in which violence is possible and takes place
and is encouraged.

MADDOW: Duvergne, what`s the situation in Albuquerque that you say
you find so concerning?

GAINES: Well, you know, interestingly enough, Rachel, after right
before or shortly after Dr. Tiller was murdered in 2009, a couple named
Tara and Bud Shaver, moved to Wichita to intern with Operation Rescue, with
Cheryl Sullenger, who has tried to whitewash her past, but of course was a
convicted federal felon, a domestic terrorist, who`s really the ring leader
of a group that attended to bomb multiple clinics in San Diego.

So, anyway, they moved to Wichita right around the time of Dr.
Tiller`s murder and spent a year working with Troy Neuman and Cheryl
Sullenger, studying their storied tactics of terror and intimidation and
then were sent to Albuquerque as missionaries for Operation Rescue. There,
they set up shop and there, they are now relentlessly pursuing providers in
that city and they`ve essentially declared it`s a new ground zero because
several of Dr. Tiller`s colleagues moved to Albuquerque.

They didn`t move. They established a practice there with another
physician.

And they have managed to put on the ballot an antiabortion ballot
measure within the city that will be in a special election there in
Albuquerque on November 19th, which would be an abortion ban from 20 weeks
on. No exception to the health of the mother. No exceptions for rape and
incest. No exceptions for really the life of the mother.

It`s -- and they are in August, they convened a leadership counsel
that brought in all these from all over the country to meet with them and
have a boot camp training of sorts which of young adults to go out and
carry out their tactics, but also we believe behind the scenes, it was an
excuse for a leadership meeting to plan the next steps in their campaign
against the providers in that city and to further the -- their campaign of
terror and intimidation nationwide, not just in Albuquerque, but we`re
seeing a larger assembly of these groups.

MADDOW: Duvergne Gaines, we`re going to have you back to talk more
about Albuquerque. We`re sort of monitoring that story.

In the background, thinking about this as a new tactics in terms of it
being a local ordinance like this, but the militants which it has been
pursued in Albuquerque and it`s linked to that larger national movement is
really important stuff.

So, Duvergne Gaines, legal coordinator for feminist majority
foundation, Duvergne, thanks for helping us understand it tonight. Thanks
for being here.

GAINES: Thank you.

MADDOW: Appreciate it.

GAINES: All right. The big election in New Jersey is over. Also,
it`s just around the corner on a day of really big news about marriage
equality in the great state of New Jersey. The women who would be trying
to unseat the anti same-sex marriage governor, Chris Christie, Barbara
Buono, is going to join us live right here on this very studio tonight.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: It has been a tough week this week for Republicans. Steve
Lonegan lost terribly in the New Jersey Senate race. And he did that weird
thing his concession speech where he slapped away his wife`s hand and said,
do you want the job any way? It`s kind of a weird night.

The shutdown ended with the Republicans in Washington getting nothing
at all, except the country really mad at them. The Republican on
Republican warfare after that collapse is now basically open warfare and
pretty nasty with everybody endorsing primary opponents against everybody
else, everybody sending out fundraising letters blaming their own side.

It has been a tough week for Republicans in this country, but even
though it has been hard for all of them, spare a particular thought for old
Ken Cuccinelli, the Republican candidate for governor in Virginia. Every
Republican in the country has had a bad week, but Ken Cuccinelli`s has been
like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli
and his opponent Terry -- what is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can say his opponent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll try it again, OK? All right. OK, there`s
such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli and his opponent -- let me,
one second here, OK. Terry McCaskill --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terry McAuliffe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McAuliffe, OK. All right.

There`s such a stark -- there`s such a stark -- let me try again,
there`s such contrast between Ken -- let me try again, tongue twisted here.
It`s been a long day. There`s such a stark contrast between -- try it
again.

OK. There`s such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli and Terry
McCastle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: McAuliffe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McAuliffe. OK. His opponent. OK. OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Yes, that`s what the Republican campaign`s been like this
week in Virginia and that`s not half of it. It gets worse. Hold on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Ashbury Park, New Jersey, got really, really famous all over
the country the year I was born because Bruce Springteen`s record was
called "Greetings from Ashbury Park." It was 1973, Bruce Springsteen was
living in Ashbury Park, and soon, everyone knew about a certain place in
Jersey they might not have known about before.

By 1973, Ashbury Park was, honestly, sort of a decaying shell of the
thriving Jersey shore resort town it had once been. It`s famous boardwalk
was basically shattered.

By the 2000s, Ashbury Park had bounced back and a big part of the
town`s revival was an influx of gay and lesbian residence who brought
property and open businesses and started families there. And now, as a
first thing Monday morning, maybe event midnight Sunday night, at least
some of those gay couples from Ashbury Park are going to be tying the knot
at Ashbury Park city hall.

This morning, the clerk`s office there starting accepting marriage
license applications from same-sex couples. They kept the office open late
tonight. They are opening up special tomorrow on a Saturday to keep
processing those applications. Seventy-two hours after getting those
applications in, those couples can be married, and that is great for the
residence of Ashbury Park.

But beyond their individual families, what they`re about to do in
Ashbury Park has also proved to a pretty effective tactic in the overall
movement toward marriage equality in this country. While marriage rights
are still being adjudicate, just get married. It has an effect.

In 2004, San Francisco`s then-Mayor Gavin Newsom just announced he
would start marrying gay and lesbian couples at city hall. Nothing in the
laws of California had changed to make that a legal thing to do. He just
decided to do it because he felt it was right. He thus put a turbo charger
on the move toward marriage equality in California.

That same year, the mayor of New Paltz in upstate New York, Jason West
decided that he would do the same thing. He performed dozen of same-sex
marriages in New Paltz that winter before he was issued a restraining order
and charged with a bunch of misdemeanors for having done so.

That all happened long before the landmark Supreme Court decision this
summer striking the Defense of Marriage Act and affirming marriage rights
for gay couples in California. But since those rulings, local officials
all over the country have just decided to do what Gavin Newsome did. They
decided to just go ahead and start marrying people, whether or not the laws
in their states had caught up.

So, in July, it was the court clerk in Montgomery County,
Pennsylvania, who started issuing marriage licenses from his office. A
month later, it was some clerks in New Mexico who started doing the same
thing in their state.

And on balance, just up and marrying people, it has been a kind of
surprisingly affected direction action tactic toward getting marriage
rights. And that`s because once you have married same-sex couples in your
state or in your city, it`s hard for anybody to say for those non-
hypothetical flesh and blood real couples with real life stories you can
meet and look in the eye, it`s hard to look at those folks and say there`s
a state interest enforcibly unmarrying you.

Well, starting this Sunday night/Monday morning, 12:01 a.m., gay and
lesbian couples in Ashbury Park and Jersey City and Newark, elsewhere
around the state of New Jersey, will be getting themselves married. In the
wake of the Supreme Court striking down the Defense of Marriage Act this
summer, it was a lower court in New Jersey that ordered that marriages
could begin in the state on October 21st, this Monday.

Chris Christie, the state`s Republican governor, has appealed that
ruling. He`s been fighting it tooth and nail, but today, the New Jersey
Supreme Court weighed in and said, you know what, go ahead, same sex
marriages start Monday in New Jersey, Chris Christie be darned. New
Jersey`s new Democratic U.S. senator, freshly elected this week, Newark
Mayor Cory Booker, says that he will be officiating weddings at the very
minute it becomes legal to do so. In fact, Cory says that he has been
holding out officiating any weddings at all up until this moment when he
could do so for any New Jersey couple in love.

In contrast to the senator-elect, New Jersey`s governor, the honorable
Chris Christie, is totally opposed to same-sex marriage. It was he who
pushed for lower court`s ruling to the Supreme Court. Last year, he
personally vetoed a marriage equality bill that passed the New Jersey`s
state legislature. Chris Christie is the thing standing in the way of
same-sex couples getting married in New Jersey. He has been. But for the
moment, seems like he`s not doing to have a choice in the matter come
midnight Sunday night.

Governor Christie is definitely the favorite to win a second term on
November 5th. But marriage equality is playing as a weak spot for the
governor in that race. His Democratic challenger, State Senator Barbara
Buono released her first political ad today taking straight aim at Governor
Christie on a whole bunch of issues, including marriage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA BUONO (D), NJ GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I`m Barbara Buono, the
only one actually running for governor. Chris Christie`s got his sights
set on the Republican presidential primary. That`s why he defunded Planned
Parenthood, opposes abortion rights, vetoed gay marriage and stands with
the gun lobby on background checks.

With 400,000 New Jerseyans out of work and our poverty rate at a 50-
year high, Christie raised taxes on the working poor, but won`t ask
millionaires to pay another dime. He wants to be president. I want to be
your governor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: As of Monday morning, Sunday midnight, same-sex couples will
start getting married in New Jersey no matter Governor Christie`s position.
Question is, the conservative stance on marriage might help him in the
circus known as the Republican presidential nominating process for 2016,
but he`s got to run right now. He`s got to run in the next few weeks.

How is it going to play with the folks back home? Is marriage
equality becoming a political liability for him?

Joining us now for the interview tonight is State Senator Barbara
Buono. She`s the Democratic candidate for governor in New Jersey. Senator
Buono, thanks very much for being here.

BUONO: Good to be here, Rachel.

MADDO: I know you are a supporter of marriage equality. What do you
think this, how important is this ruling from the Supreme Court today?

BUONO: Well, it`s groundbreaking and I have to tell you, I`m
jubilant. It was a very emotional moment for me. My daughter is openly
gay, my baby, who happens to live in California. I called her and said,
Tess, I told her what happened. She said, wait a minute, are you telling
me that New Jersey, you can get married if you`re gay? I said, yes, you
can come home now.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: Christie was asked if he had a gay child, what he would tell
them about this issue that he`s taken such a stand on. And he said he
would love his child, but it would not change his mind about marriage. Did
that surprise you?

BUONO: Well, I took my -- it was a sharp intake of breath at the
moment and I have to -- I thought at the moment that our gay brothers and
sisters don`t need a hug. They need to be treated as equals.

MADDOW: In terms of this race against Chris Christie, obviously, it`s
an uphill battle. The polling shows how much of an uphill climb it is. I
think you`re doing your damnedest with the hand you have been giving.

I have to ask you if your stance on gay rights versus his stance on
gay rights is something you feel is one of your bigger assets in this race?

BUONO: Well, you know, it`s broader than gay rights. This governor
has the social views that mirror the people in the corn fields of Iowa
maybe, but not New Jersey. This is just marriage equality.

This is the governor, the first one since Roe v. Wade that is anti-
choice. You know, he thinks that politicians should make our health care
decisions and not us. He`s anti-pay equity. He vetoed a pay equity bill
and called it senseless bureaucracy.

So, his social values on guns as well. He`s far to the right of most
New Jerseyans.

The key is that a lot of New Jerseyians don`t know that, a lot of
those same polls that you`re talking about, Rachel, amazing as it would
seem ,a lot of people don`t know he`s anti-marriage equality, that he`s
anti-choice. And so, that`s what we`re doing. That`s why it`s so
important we went up on TV today.

MADDOW: In terms of the way the governor has made structural
decisions around this race, it is weird that the special senate election in
New Jersey was held on a Wednesday just a couple of weeks before we`re
already having an election any way in your race against him. Holding a
race on a Wednesday, spending all that extra money.

What are the practical consequences of that for your race?

BUONO: Well, it`s not weird. The governor has a history of using his
office to advance his own political interests. He did it with this Senate
race. It`s less than three weeks before our race. It caused us, as you
said, a lot of money and it certainly disenfranchised voters, the lowest
voter turnout for a general election in New Jersey history.

So I think it has consequences in the sense that people may be
confused. I mean, there were certainly people that showed up, that sent in
their absentee ballots for November and October in the same envelope. And
some of the county clerks have set them aside. So, we`re concerned about
disenfranchisement on November 5th as well.

MADDOW: What`s your strategy between now and November 5th?
Obviously, you want to let people know about the parts of Chris Christie`s
record that you think the state doesn`t fully appreciate. What should we
expect from your campaign between now and November 5th?

BUONO: Well, you know, it`s not really going to be any different than
the last six months. Difference is we`ll be able to communicate it on a
broader scale. And New Jersey, caught between the New York market, media
market in Philadelphia, you know, you guys don`t really cover our races.

So, it`s great to come on here. It`s great to have an ad that is
going up and people of New Jersey and the tri-state area will know that
where Chris Christie is not just on social issues, but the fact of the
matter is, his economic plan such as it is really has enriched the wealthy
and crippled the middle class. That`s why we have the highest unemployment
in the region.

MADDOW: Democratic State Senate Barbara Buono, running against Chris
Christie for New Jersey governor. Thanks for your time tonight and keep us
posted. It`s going to be a fascinating race to watch over the next few
weeks.

BUONO: Well, if anybody wants to hear more, it`s
Buonoforgovernor.com.

MADDOW: Very good. You are allowed to sneak that in. And now, I
have to give Chris Christie`s Web site in the break, but I have to look it
up first.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: I looked it up. Our guest tonight for the interview was the
Democratic candidate running for governor of New Jersey against Republican
Chris Christie, State Senator Buono. And as I was saying thanks to the
senator, she did the thing that all good candidates should do and she snuck
in the name of her Web site, because she wants you to go check on her Web
site and give her money or whatever, but because she did that, now, I have
to say in the interest of fairness, what is the Web site for her opponent -
- just in case you didn`t have it off the tip of your tongue. It is
Christiefornj.com. There.

Now, this is also the part where I say to Governor Chris Christie --
come on. Come on, come on, come on. She did the show, you should do the
show. We would have such a good time. Come on, come on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: The one piece of information you need to be able to
appreciate what happens in this tape, the one thing you need to know is
that the name of the Democratic candidate for governor in Virginia is Terry
McAuliffe. OK?

Go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli
and his opponent Terry -- what is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can say his opponent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll try it again, OK? All right. OK, there`s
such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli and his opponent -- let me,
one second here, OK. Terry McCaskill --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terry McAuliffe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McAuliffe, OK. All right.

There`s such a stark -- there`s such a stark -- let me try again,
there`s such contrast between Ken -- let me try again, tongue twisted here.
It`s been a long day. There`s such a stark contrast between -- try it
again.

OK. There`s such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli and Terry
McCastle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: McAuliffe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McAuliffe. OK. His opponent. OK. OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Can`t she just do it? Never really worked.

That was a Ken Cuccinelli for governor Republican campaign event in
Woodbridge, Virginia, this week. Mr. Cuccinelli had campaigning for him a
reality show family famous for having a very large number of children.
They have I think it`s 19 children, that couple.

Ken Cuccinelli who`s running for governor himself has seven children.
He has also campaigned the outlaw common forms of contraception in
Virginia, including a birth control pill. So, thematically at least, it
makes sense to have the 19 kids guy campaigning for Ken Cuccinelli for
governor. Thematically it makes sense even if in practice, it turns out to
be a tougher thing. Virginia Republicans in general are having a tough
time right now.

This year, they engineered a way to pick their statewide candidates at
a convention of party delegates instead of in a primary, so they ended up
with a hard core, hand-picked, super right wing slate of candidates who are
now losing all their races really badly. Ken Cuccinelli this week had to
face the 21st straight poll in a row that shows him losing the Virginia
governor`s race.

Ken Cuccinelli is such a sure bet loser in that race at this point
they`re trying to drag other candidates down just by tying them to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD NARRATOR: If you think Ken Cuccinelli would take Virginia in the
wrong direction, wait until you meet his attorney general candidate,
Senator Obenshain. Like Cuccinelli, Obenshain believes politicians should
dictate our most personal decisions. They cosponsored a bill together to
ban the birth control bill and outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and
incest.

Cuccinelli and Obenshain, together, a dangerously wrong turn for
Virginia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Mark Obenshain is the Republican attorney general candidate
in Virginia. But the Republicans lieutenant governor candidate is maybe
even more amazing than either guy he`s running with. E.W. Jackson. He`s
known as a fire breathing, antigay preacher. The kind of guy who says that
Democrats are anti God and President Obama is both a Muslim and a
communist.

Really, though, since he`s been the candidate, it turns that E.W.
Jackson also claims to have been the chaplain for the Boston Red Sox. Wow.
That guy, really?

No. No. Actually, that did not happen. Quote, according to the
baseball chapel, there`s no records of such service by E.W. Jackson, our
records go back to 1973 and don`t show Bishop Jackson has having served any
Major League or Minor League team. Possibility that he is like a freelance
assistant man person?

But was he the chaplain for the Red Sox, which is what he says on the
campaign trial and his website today? No, he was not.

And as campaign trail lies go, it`s kind of a weird one, right? It`s
an unusual choice. But it is not alone. Bishop Jackson apparently also
regularly tells the tale on the campaign trail that his life and his foster
family was to poor when he was a kid, that they sometimes had to eat
mayonnaise sandwiches. Other nights, there was no supper at all. There
was no indoor bathrooms, Mr. Jackson as said, and as of youngest, he was
last in line for the once a week bath in a galvanized tub.

After hearing that on the campaign trail, "The Washington Post"
tracked down one of his sisters, who said to the paper, I`m like, what
House was he in?

Nadine Molet shared the same roof with E.W. Jackson and said the
bathroom was on the first floor right beyond the well-stocked kitchen.
Quote, "I never remember missing a meal."

Now, there is always the facility that there was a bathroom and the
other people in the house just didn`t tell E.W. Jackson about it?

But barring that cruel twist of being the youngest, the Virginia
election in two and a half weeks maybe just got more amazing than it
already was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli
and his opponent Terry -- what is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can say his opponent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll try it again, OK? All right. OK, there`s
such a stark contrast between Ken Cuccinelli and his opponent -- let me,
one second here, OK. Terry McCaskill --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terry McAuliffe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McAuliffe, OK. All right.

There`s such a stark -- there`s such a stark -- let me try again,
there`s such contrast between Ken -- let me try again, tongue twisted here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: Yes, they thought I was going to become
a minister. People in the community call me boy preacher. I was preaching
all the time.

But I must tell you, much earlier, when I was only 7, 8, 9 years old
on the farm, it was my responsibility to care for the chickens, to raise
the chickens. And we describe in this book -- as a little boy, I would
gather all of our chickens together in the chicken yard. And my cousins
and brothers and sisters were on the outside of the chicken yard where they
can`t make it to congregation (ph).

MADDOW: Those are lucky chickens.

LEWIS: I would start speaking, preaching. When I look back, the
chickens were bowing their heads. Some of the -- this is true, some of the
chickens, they would shake their heads. They never quite said amen.

But I am convinced that some of the chickens that I preached to in the
`40s, `50s, tend to listen to me much better than some of my colleagues
listen to me.

(APPLAUSE)

MADDOW: I know this is a little bit weird, why do you think you like
the chickens so much more than the other animals?

LEWIS: Well --

MADDOW: I mean, you weren`t talking to the cows?

LEWIS: No, I didn`t talk to the cows. I saw the chickens as --
innocent creatures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: But how did you see the cows? Ha-ha-ha. Chickens as
innocent creatures. Congressman John Lewis talking with me wanting to be a
preacher as a young boy at the Louisville Kentucky Author Forum, a new book
called out "March", I interviewed him about that. When Steve was here this
week hosting the show, it`s because I had the great honor and privilege of
being in Kentucky with Congressman Lewis taping the conversation.

One of the things that is nice about being in Kentucky is that boy do
they love their bourbon in Kentucky. There is the Kentucky bourbon trail,
distilleries all over the state. For lazy people that don`t want to go all
over the state, you even have an urban bourbon trail, all over Louisville,
drinking bourbon all the way. I had a great time in Kentucky. Then I came
back to work, back to the news cycle to find that the biggest heist in the
news this week was a bourbon heist which happened in Kentucky while I was
there, at least it was uncovered while I was there. Somebody stole all the
Pappy.

This is 20-year-old Pappy Van Winkle bourbon, regarded as one of the
finest, rarest, expensive bourbons in the world. If you can find the
bourbon in the store, they will charge you like $130. But you will not
find it a store. You are more likely to find somebody scalping bottles of
it online for two, three, four times that price.

Well, this week, the distillery that makes Pappy Van Winkle in
Kentucky reported that they were the victims of a heist. They think it was
an inside job, somebody stealing Pappy one case at a time over a period of
months. By the time supervisors realized what happened. Dozens of cases
were gone to the tune of about $25,000 retail.

Apparently, whoever was stealing it was slipping the odd case or two
off the back side of the pallet hoping nobody would notice. And nobody did
notice for months, until this week. I swear it wasn`t me.

The local sheriff will leave no stone unturned in finding the culprit
for the heist, bourbon heist. If that 20-year-old liquid gold does turn up
somewhere, if you find any of it, do not mix night a cocktail. That stuff
is so expensive, just drink it straight.

But as a vigil for the stolen bourbon, in honor of Kentucky, and as a
sign of relief that this freaking week in politics is over, how about an
old-fashioned? The original cocktail.

Get a -- sugar cube. I like raw sugar for this. Any old sugar cube.
You soak it in bitters. You add, this is a little controversial, but, it
makes it easier, and it actually sort of makes it tastier if you are using
a high octane bourbon like we`re going to use here.

Add a tiny little bit of seltzer water, just enough so when you use
your muddler to mash up the sugar cube with the bitters and the little bit
of water you are making it into a syrup. Kind of like a goo down there,
rather than a granular thing.

Then, it`s very simple. It`s very easy cocktail. You just add some
ice. If you can find bigger ice cubes than this, better off. The bigger
the ice cube, the better on this.

And then, you find -- you can do this with bourbon or rye. In honor
of Kentucky and in honor of the heist of the Pappy, we are doing this with
Bourbon. Just two ounces of bourbon on top of what you have already done
there.

Give it one little stir. This is not like some big thing where you
shake it or anything. Just enough to mix it up, that`s because you made
the little slurry in the bottom into a nice little syrup, so it doesn`t
take too much attention. Then, you`re going to make yourself a nice lemon
twist.

You can use a potato peeler or paring knife. Cut it nice and thin.
Like that. Take the oil side. Express it down like that over the drink.
And this if you only had to have one cocktail the rest of your life this is
the one you would have.

Happy shutdown week, everybody. Happy debt ceiling. We made it.

Now, it`s not at all time for prison. It`s apparently time for "UP
LATE WITH ALEC BALDWIN"! So cheers!

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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