updated 10/22/2013 3:36:22 PM ET 2013-10-22T19:36:22

THE ED SHOW
October 21, 2013
Guest: Elijah Cummings, Barbara Buono, Tom Perriello, Heather McGhee,
Corey Hebert

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMARICA: It seems to
be the one thing that unifies the party these days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the new normal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) normal.

RONALD REAGAN. Government is not the solution to our problem.
Government is the problem.

OBAMA: So far, the national website, HealthCare.gov has been visited
nearly 20 million times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does not indicate that perhaps that this is (inaudible)
and that republicans are overstating the fund (ph).

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: The Washington establishment, so the
American people down the road (ph). It provided no relief to the millions
of people who are hurting because of ObamaCare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) junior, you have no credibility
anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a little bit of self restraint?

OBAMA: The essence of the law is working just fine. The health
insurance that`s being provided is good. That`s what the Affordable Care
Act is all about.

Unidentified Male: This can`t be the new normal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: After a 16-day government shutdown,
the country is open for business, finally. And let`s call it like it is.
Republicans flat out failed in their effort to kill ObamaCare and prevent
over 30 million Americans from having access to Affordable Healthcare.

The folks are finding it hard to forget the $24 billion price tag on
their latest temperament (ph). Trust me. That money could`ve gone to good
use in my native city of Detroit, Michigan. 54 percent of American say
it`s best for the country that the GOP controls the house, which might
explain why the haters came out in full force this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The good news for Republican Party is that the
battle (ph) is over. If we don`t do it again and ObamaCare is a continuing
the battle (ph). Look, it`s been fiasco, (inaudible) went out Silicon
Valley, loaded up with some smart people, bring them back to Washington and
then fix this problem. It`s ridiculous and everybody knows that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve had three or four years here to get this
ready. God only knows how much money they have spent and it`s a failure.
You know, the government, simply, isn`t going to be able to get this job
done correctly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Unidentified Male: But earlier today, my friends, President Obama
made it clear. He`s not having any of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Recognize that the Republican Party is made blocking the
Affordable Care Act, its signature policy idea. Sometimes, it seems to be
the one thing that unifies the party these days. In fact, they`re all
willing to shut down the government and potentially harm the global economy
to try to get it repealed. And I`m sure that given the problem or (ph) the
website so far, they`re going to be looking to go after it even harder but
I just want to remind everybody, we did not wage (ph) this long and
contentious battle just around the website. That`s not what this was
about.

We wage (ph) this battle to make sure that millions of Americans in
the wealthiest nation on earth finally have the same chance to get the same
security of affordable, quality healthcare as anybody else. That`s what
this was about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: And what the president didn`t say, and don`t you get the
feeling this is the true predicate for all of this? They are just jealous
but like the great philosopher, Aubrey Graham says, "Jealousy is love and
hate at the same time."

And for good reason, yesterday, the administration announced that in
the first two weeks since the 6th month sign -up period began,
HealthCare.gov had more than 19 million unique visits and nearly half a
million applications were submitted nationwide for healthcare through both
the state and federal marketplaces. I don`t know about you but that sounds
like folks awfully interested in signing up. As Obama said on the first
day of the Affordable Care Act role out, even the most successful ventures
are bound to hit a few snags.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Consider that just a couple weeks ago, Apple rolled out a new
mobile operating system and within days they found the glitch so they fixed
it. I don`t remember anybody suggesting Apple should stop selling iPhones
or iPads or planning to shut down the company if the didn`t, but somehow,
we do things in America. We don`t actually route for failure. We get to
work and we make things happen and we make them better. We keep going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Tell them Mr. President, stop the hate. Don`t throw up the
iPod or the iPad with a glitch. Get it fixed and then get the thing to
working. You think the party of business would understand that but
republicans are desperate. Did I say desperate? They wanted you to see
failures of the exchange website to justify the crusade that causes
billions and put hundreds of thousands of folk out of work. So their
mentality isn`t, "Hey, something`s broken so let`s work to fix it. Their
mentality instead is something`s broken, let`s destroy it and that
mentality is nothing new, republicans have been preaching that gospel since
the days of the old giver (ph).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAGAN: In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our
problem. Government is the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Now, there you go again. Republicans don`t take Reagan`s
words to mean, "Look, Washington is broken so we need to fix it.
Republicans have interpreted Reagan`s words to fit their deeds. They have
done a self serving (inaudible). What they hear is Washington is broken so
we must destroy it. When Jesus said for the poor you will always have with
you but you would not always have me, he was not excusing poverty of
something chronic or inevitable, he wasn`t endorsing poverty, he was trying
to explain the persistence of an attitude that permitted poverty to go on,
Jesus was not absorbing us (ph) of our duty to take care of the neediest
among them.

In that saying (inaudible), I don`t take Reagan`s words to be
absolution of government`s responsibility to take care of the problems we
face. Instead, republicans like Ted Cruz have chosen to interpret those
words in the most cynical way possible. Bad, bad preacher you are Mr.
Cruz. They joined the government not to solve the problems facing the
neediest Americans. They don`t actually want to fix any glitches. They
joined the system aiming to destroy the system as a whole. They`re like
Sampson in the temple blindly pushing down the pillars and its coming
trembling down on all of us.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Are Republicans (inaudible) on the destruction of government as
we know it?" Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622, or go to our blog at
ed.msnbc.com. I`ll bring you the results later in the show. Joining me
now is Congressman, Elijah Cummings. Congressman, welcome to the show.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D) MARYLAND: It`s good to be with you.

DYSON: My friend, you`re in Congress. The president has been over
backwards to be bipartisan, so tell us what the real lesson here is of
these republicans who fail to -- not only be bipartisan, but to do anything
that would help the nation get on the more healthy and if you will,
progressive fast (ph).

CUMMINGS: I think you stated very clearly a little bit earlier, keep
in mind, we have now had some 45 votes and those votes were to destroy the
Affordable Care Act. They have pushed for defunding it and they have
pushed for delaying it, but all of it is about trying to kill it.

And it`s so interesting (inaudible) that suddenly we have all these
(inaudible) saying, "Oh, we`re in trouble. We cannot give this done. I`m
so afraid. We`d got to throw it out." That is not the America that I grew
up in. It`s simply not. We are a "Can Do" nation. And so we have some
glitches. We`ll work those out. But the president`s absolutely right.
This is far, far more than the website.

I`ve got people in my district. I have a reverend in my district
going to talk to -- few minutes ago whose son had a life threatening
disease and he was able to keep his son on his insurance policy. He`s 24
years old (inaudible) insurance policy was able to get his son the care
that he needed. If he had not going to able do that, he would have been
bankrupt. No doubt about it. And we`re seeing more and more women, 47
million of them who got preventative services without having to pay extra
to the doctor`s office. And we`d finally getting away from that time with
(ph) simply be in a woman was a pre existing condition.

Those are the kinds of things and one of the things that is very
interesting too Reverend Dyson is that we`d hear our friends down in Texas
wail against the Affordable Care Act and some of us have got to stand up
for that one in every four Texas residents who don`t have healthcare.
Somebody`s got to stand up for them and I planned to do that.

DYSON: Let me ask you this question. How in the world can you work
with republicans who`d allow a small fraction of their party to hijack
them? Because in some ways, I thought that John Boehner was like Patty
Hearst. He`d been taking the hostage himself and force to go against his
best interest in the name of similar kind of political unity. How do you
actually work with republicans who committed this kind of thing to happen?

CUMMINGS: It`s very, very difficult and it`s also very difficult for
the president. When the president tries to make a deal or work out
something with Speaker Boehner, he realizes that there`s no way that that
is going to necessarily go forward, because as soon as he gets back to his
40 or 45 Tea Party folks in the party, then they say no.

As a matter of fact, what we have seen over and over and over again is
the party of no -- no policy. You know what (inaudible) if you asked them
for the policy there is no policy except the word "No". That is not the
way we operate or should be operating on Capitol Hill. We have 435 folks
coming from districts -- diverse districts all over the country. Reverend
Dyson, they must be compromised. There must be a way to get some kind of
resolution. And so, they have spent all of this time, 15-16 days, shutting
down the government. So -- and putting people out of their jobs and
(inaudible) services, why, because they`re trying to deny others, by the
way, their constituent`s healthcare. Healthcare must be -- is got to be --
it`s got to be -- it`s not some privilege for a few, it should be a right
for all.

DYSON: Well, what is it about Congressman Boehner, the Speaker of the
House, that he`s incapable of doing what the president has done several
times (inaudible) of his supporters, that is being able to challenge his
own base to say, "Look, I`ll agree with you on most of this stuff, but on
some things I disagree with you and I`m willing to challenge you." Why
isn`t Boehner able to challenge his own base for the interest of the broad
republic (ph)?

CUMMINGS: We could only guess that Speaker Boehner was worried about
not being able to get the speakership but he would be denied the votes by
his own party to get the speakership. But there`s another element here to
our Reverend Dyson and that is there`s a lot of the Tea Party folks,
represented (ph) a situation where all those other republicans who by the
way have remained silent, and I think that`s sad too, but a lot of them had
remained silent, why, because they are afraid of somebody coming from the
right in a primary running against them.

DYSON: Right.

CUMMINGS: And I talked to them and they told me this. They said,
"Well, you know, Congressman (ph), I think the Affordable Care Act is not
that bad but I`m worried about people coming to -- at me from the right.
Well, they got to be put that aside. We are here to speak for the American
people, not just to people at a Tea Party districts, not just the people in
Baltimore, but the entire country. And, this is something we have now
opened the doors from the very difficult battle but we have opened the door
whereby people can now get affordable, accessible healthcare and we`ve got
to make sure that were option -- and tell you it`s simply not an option.

DYSON: Well look, I can only imagine, if this is the shoe are on the
other foot, have the republicans won a great victory, they would have
(inaudible) over the democrats and they would have made (inaudible) look,
these people are not really ultimate patriots in the sense that they`re
willing to defer their own interest in recognition of the broader populace
here. So the inability of Republican Party to see that true patriotism is
saying I`m not going to wreck the train .

CUMMINGS: That`s right.

DYSON: . of American democracy because I can`t get water on my
particular car. How did we make that message? Do you think democrats are
(inaudible) to really explain the advantage they`ve not rested (ph) from
the republicans?

CUMMINGS: I think that the democrats have got to call republicans out
and it`s not just the Tea Party folks by the way. I don`t think the other
republicans who have been along with this, keep in mind 144 in total voted
against opening the government back up and voted to threaten and to destroy
basically our economy. So, I blame them too. So, some kind of way we have
got to -- the democrats have got to make it clear. We got to call
(inaudible) and we`ve got to say, "Look, this is not about a one district,
this is about our entire country. Every two years, our Reverend Dyson, we
put our hand up to uphold the constitution of United States of America.
The Affordable Care Act is a law that has been passed and affirmed by the
Supreme Court. That`s part of what we`re supposed to do.

DYSON: Right.

CUMMINGS: And now we`ve got to push that and push as hard as we
possibly can.

DYSON: All right.

CUMMINGS: No apologies.

DYSON: All right. Unapologetically, Congressman Elijah Cummings ....

CUMMINGS: Unapologetically.

DYSON: Thank you my friend for your time tonight. Remember to answer
tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen and share your
thoughts on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook. I really want to know what
you think.

Coming up, Dick Cheney`s life is like a flat line from Homeland. The
former V.P. reveals details about his (inaudible) heart (ph). Plus,
Governor Chris Christie drops his challenged to same sex marriage in New
Jersey. Does this mean he`s dropping his head on the reign (ph) for 2016?.
That`s coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: Time now for the Trenders. In the social media world, this is
where you can find this. The actual media nation has decided and we`re
reporting here are today`s top trenders voted on it by you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are here tonight to celebrate the first lady
of American comedy Ted Cruz.

DYSON: The number three trender, funny girls.

CAROL BURNETT: There are so many people funnier than I am especially
here in Washington, with any (inaudible) soon get voted out and I still
have the Mark Twain Prize.

DYSON: Star celebrate Mark Twain Prize recipient Carol Burnett.

BURNETT: I`m so glad, we have this time together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vicky and I go wherever Carol`s being honored.
This is our sixth city (ph) this week.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you in a way that is just (inaudible)
creepy that she`s was one of the first woman who have her variety show and
the first woman ever to threaten a network executive with a broken beer
bottle.

DYSON: The number two trender, heart to heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I resigned the vice presidency if I take (ph)
March 28 of 2001.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did President Bush react when you told him
about this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a little surprised but he thought it was
good.

DYSON: The former vice president talks about his ticker on 60
minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all heart new heart and it`s one of those
situations where bigger is not necessarily better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top trender, Garden State equality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you wish to (inaudible)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I now by the power vested in me thank God by the
state of New Jersey (inaudible).

DYSON: New Jersey becomes the 14th state to legalized same sex
marriage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may kiss your spouse. All right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels like (inaudible) blessing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may kiss your spouse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is now clear. You can`t misunderstand
what our relationship is. It`s (inaudible) in the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Joining me now is New Jersey`s state Senator Barbara Buono,
the democratic candidate for governor. You attended some weddings last
night in New Jersey City. So tell us what it felt like to be there.

STATE SEN. BARBARA BUONO (D) NEW JERSEY: Well, it was jubilant. You
know, we`ve been fighting for this for a long time and this governor has
stood (ph) in a way for four years that he`s awarded giving our gay
brothers and sisters the equal rights that they deserve and so it`s
jubilant. Two of my friends, Richard and David got married in Jersey City
and it was really a mob scene. Everybody want to get married, a lot of
love going around.

DYSON: From (ph) New Jersey, a mob scene is quite interesting. So,
what`s also interesting is that, the governor dropped his appeal, you think
it`s really a change of heart is that one of this Barack Obama I`ve now
evolve or was it pure politics?

BUONO: No, it wasn`t even that. The fact is that he had no choice.
The Supreme Court said and no one certain terms that he had no chance on
the merits (ph) of the case. So there was -- I want to make a very clear
with the people that there was no movement, whatsoever. This governor
reiterated his opposition to the Supreme Court decision. And so, he had to
do with kicking and screaming .

DYSON: Right.

BUONO: . but, you know, we`re gland that he had to -- obviously, he
had to response to the rule of law and now I`d like to see the legislator
(inaudible) find that and I think that we will.

DYSON: Well, you know, the argument has been that he is holding the
state back in many ways, of course your campaign had suggest that -- and
what other ways is Governor Christie holding the state back?

BUONO: Well, this governor is in the pocket of the Tea parties when
it comes to social issues whether it`s plan parenthood, he zeroed out state
funding for plan parenthood. Every year he`s been in office. He`s the
first governor since Roe V. Wade that stridently anti choice. He thinks
that politicians should make our health care decisions and not women. He
said some things that women should get equal pay for equal work. Either
they pay acuity bill and called it census (ph) bureaucracy. And when it
comes to any civil right, I mean, look at the voting rights act..

I ask him -- I report (inaudible) countless occasions where he stood,
a supreme court -- United States Supreme Court got in the voting rights act
and wouldn`t answer. I asked him at our first debate, in fact to ask each
other question, and I think governor you have screwed the issue (ph) dodge
that question on many occasions and you see yourself running for president
at least in your mind.

DYSON: Right.

BUONO: How can you not have position on (inaudible) of the voting
rights? And he still refused to answer.

DYSON: How is it that he`s been able to generate this portrait of
himself as a kind of progressive or at least, you know, a conservative with
a heart and compassion was much more progressive then some of his Tea
Party, if you will, colleagues. How he`s been able to generate that kind
of portrait of himself?

BUONO: Well, he`s the master of destruction. He`s a good
entertainer. Governor O`Malley came to New Jersey to campaign for
(inaudible) campaign last week and he said, "You know, if you can govern
(inaudible) better to be able to entertain." But the fact to the matter is
there is no amount of entertaining or late night wise cracks (ph) that can
raise the fact that this governor`s social values are, you know, in sync
with the Tea Party, it`s so clear. I mean, people in New Jersey are
suffering now. You have to understand what they`re going through. There`s
400,000 that still out of work. We have the highest unemployment in the
region, not just New York.

DYSON: Right.

BUONO: Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland, and we have
the lowest rate of job creation in the region. People can`t focus on the
issue, just focusing on the pocketbook issues. But, you know, when those
same polls tell you that the governor is popular with respect to Sandy
clean up, you ask him a question on the pocketbook issues, and his approval
numbers are low and they don`t know that he`s (inaudible) of 25 percent on
one of the poll don`t know he`s anti marriage equality, and don`t know he`s
anti choice.

DYSON: Well, despite that, and you`ve articulated well here, not only
that other poll you cited, but another poll suggest he`s 26 points ahead of
you in the race. How do you really conquer that distance, and what do you
do in light of that disparity between your progressive politics and it
seems the reflection of the state and his lead on the post?

BUONO: Well, you know, in New Jersey, we are caught in between New
York and Philadelphia media (ph) marketing. You guys don`t like to cover
us, I don`t know why. We used to have a public television in NJN. We used
to got a lot more coverage and people, it`s a function of name I.D and you
even though I was the majority leader at statewide position, people don`t
know me.

So what we`re doing? We are upon TV as of last week, one of our
governor.com, if any of your listeners are interested, that`s where our
policy positions are, but now that we are getting broadcasting our message
loud and clear to make sure the people -- we pull back the curtain on who
the real Chris Christie is that he is, you know, in the pocket of the Tea
Partiers when it comes to social issues and in terms of these economic
issues. He`s just taking a page out of Mitt Romney. He is the (inaudible)
side trickle down economic and it is a failed economic policy and his
people get -- we communicate that to people. People are flocking to the
campaign. Now that, that special senate campaign is over that he wasted
10s of millions of taxpayer dollars .

DYSON: Yeah, right.

BUONO: . just to (inaudible), right?

DYSON: $24 million, right?

BOUNO: We don`t even know because people may have to rent, and may
have to rent a voting machine because you have to impound them for 15 days
after the election, may have to be ready to be turned around by October --
from October 16th to November 5th, they got 20 days. So we don`t know, but
the fact to the matter is this governor makes every decisions based upon
what is in his national interest. What he thinks plays well with the
conservative based of the national Republican Party, and unfortunately New
Jersey has suffered because of it.

DYSON: All right. Well, good luck in your campaign.

BUONO: Thank you.

DYSON: Senator Barbara Buono, thank you so much for joining and see
you tonight. Coming up is Republican Senator from Canada says, "Don`t mess
with Texas." Ted Cruz is ready for another shutdown showdown. Still
ahead, Florida Republican Marco Rubio is not ready to rumble yet. The
waterman needs a time out at the cooler. He lands in our Pretenders
tonight. But next, I`m taking your questions Ask MED Live is just ahead.
Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our
viewers. Tonight in Ask MED Live, our question is from Marlowe Banister.
Why do the poor in red states always vote against their own interest?
Makes you go, "Hmmm." You know, it`s a great question. And the answer I
think is so much what Martin Luther King Jr. faced when he was in the
Birmingham jail. They said he had white jailer there. And he asked the
jailer, "Do you fear (ph) any better than I do? Do you have any better
options in terms of economics and social standing and status?" And of
course, the answer was no.

In fact, the King`s response to him is, you would gain more by joining
with us, by not allowing the people who are jailing me to imprison your
economic future. And I would say the same thing about the red states here.
The poor in the red states are blinkered by those people in the high status
and economic -- politically speaking as well, who prevent the solidarity
that could be generated between poor who are Black and Latino, and who are
Asian, and who are African-American. They would have much more in common.
But the racist, the vision, the classes, the vision, and the geographical
dislocation continues to work against the best interest of poor people, and
I would say that those poor people in the red states, the policies that are
being promoted by the Tea Party and by the right wing have nothing to do
with enabling you to have a better education for your children or have a
better time at your employment. Those who fight for fair wages, those who
fight for the benefits economically and those who fight for your health
care, are -- I`m sorry, in the blue, not in the red.

Let`s turn into our next question as well, all right? And that would
be from our Twitter -- all right. Are we right here? Already, OK. So,
what will conservatives harp on once the ObamaCare website issues are
fixed? That`s a great question as well.

Well, besides ObamaCare, then they`re going to talk about this
President`s week on formed policy. They`ll probably get back to that. And
we know, given this stellar record in terms of dealing with the enemies of
the American State, that won`t go far as well. Then they`ll talk about his
economic program again.

They`ll begin to talk about the fact that, "Hey, the job`s recovery is
not as robust as we want it to be," never mentioning of course the fact
that they have stood in the way and prevented the flourishing of this
economy because of what they`ve done, still haven`t signed on the
President`s jobs program, still won`t talk about the distribution of wealth
to those who deserve it.

And of course, this is what we say to those people in Congress, "Why
don`t you give the American people the exact same thing you enjoy, the
robust health care plan you have, the ability to have expenses taken care
of and a decent salary to protect your family?" And in that sense, the
American people would understand the hypocrisy that`s going on in D.C.

Stick around. The rapid (ph) response panel is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. The Republican Government
shutdown has done enormous damage to our nation. But one Republican wants
to go another round. It`s estimated, the Republican Party`s reckless3
behavior caused the U.S economy $24 billion. Some Republicans know they
lost big on the shutdown. Their poll numbers are in the dumps.

Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, is well-aware Americans are
sick and tired of Republican games. McConnell had a rare moment of clarity
on Sunday when he said the following,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCH MCCONNELL, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: A number of us were saying
back in July that this strategy could not and would not work, and of
course, it didn`t. So there will not be another government shutdown. You
can count on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Well, we`d love to count on that. That`s a reasonable
position to take. But Canadian Senator, Ted Cruz, couldn`t let reason
stand. He came out Sunday morning and said he`s ready for a government
shutdown, round two.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have another deadline. Government funding runs
out on January 15th. Will you rule out pushing to the brink of another
shutdown by saying you would lock funding for the government unless
ObamaCare is defunded. Will you do that again?

CRUZ: I would do anything and I will continue to do anything I can to
stop the train-wreck that is ObamaCare. What I intend to do is continue
standing with the American people to work to stop ObamaCare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: What`s that Einsteinian definition about insanity? Yeah, its`
Yogi Bear`s dejavu all over again. $24 billion lost, 800,000 workers
furloughed, vital services put on hold, our international reputation has
been damaged, and Republicans have nothing to show for it.

Ted Cruz is reckless and dangerous by calling for another shutdown.
This guy clearly doesn`t care about the well being of our country. Now,
you tell me who`s a patriot when they get on this anti-Obama kick that
they`re opting on.

Ted Cruz cares about one thing, the well being of Ted Cruz. He
admitted as much, Sunday morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Given the choice between being reviled in Washington, D.C. and
appreciated in Texas, or reviled in Texas and appreciated in Washington, I
would take the former 100 out of 100 times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Cruz is certainly giving the home team what they want. He
received an eight-minute, that`s right, eight-minute long standing ovation
when he returned home to Texas on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: That is a slightly different reception than I get in Washington
D.C. And having spent the past month up in DC, it is really great to back
in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Now, Ted Cruz drew a distinction between being in D.C. and
America, can we draw a similar distinction between being in Ted Cruz`s head
and coming down to earth? Joining me now is our rapid (ph) response panel,
Katrina vanden Heuvel of the Nation Magazine, former congressman, Tom
Perriello, and Heather Mcghee of Demos.org.

Katrina is -- who`s crazy enough to really try to do this thing once
again?

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, NATION MAGAZINE: Michael, America is seeing
someone like Ted Cruz before he`s an American demigod. But we can`t forget
that he has a 75 percent positive rating with the purest of the purest of
the Tea Party ideological zealots.

I wish, Michael, that we could spend more time talking about not Ted
Cruz but what this country needs to do, because we`re going to go from ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

VANDEN HEUVEL: . giving him too much coverage to arguing with Paul
Wyman (ph). What we need to do is shout loud and clear from the rooftop
that what we have is not a deficit crisis but a jobs crisis and
infrastructure crisis, and mobility crisis, and equality crisis, or poverty
crisis in this country.

And the more we cover Ted Cruz, the more we don`t talk about what we
need to.

DYSON: Yeah, that`s as great point, and no disagreement there.
Congressman Perriello, how mad is McConnell at Cruz right now given what
Katrina just said, and what can we do to stop him so that we can get the
conversation back on to more progressive ideas?

TOM PERRIELLO, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Well, amen to everything Katrina
just said. And certainly, Cruz is making no friends in the Senate. But
it`s not just there. It`s in lots of states. I think he certainly heard
Republicans who are trying to win right now, in my state of Virginia, and
done a great gift to Democrats up and down the ticket there.

And I think he`s also forcing a conversation on the Republican side
about how much they care about economic growth versus ideology. And I
think the President`s made clear all along the second they`re interested in
talking seriously about economic growth and protecting the middle class.
He`s ready to have that conversation.

So I think, you know, you`re going to see individuals like McConnell
continuing to have a bench (ph) between primary challenge from the radical
right and extremely strong challenger from the center, the Democrat, that`s
running there. So this is not good news for the party -- Republican Party,
but most importantly, we got to get focused on what`s good for America.

DYSON: Yeah. So, Heather, you know, the Republicans are always
talking about what the American population is concerned about and how
they`re speaking for the American public. But the American public is
clearly fed up with Cruz, just 14 percent have a favorable opinion of him,
but then he goes to Texas and receives an eight-minute long standing
ovation. Do you really think Ted Cruz can honestly say he`s looking out
for every American who`s looking out for Ted Cruz?

HEATHER MCGHEE, DEMOS: I think he`s looking out for Ted Cruz. I
think he`s also looking out for the campaign cash that comes his way when
he takes this really far right ideological position. I mean you have to
remember that the man`s (ph) campaign was sealed by the Club for Growth,
which is an anti .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

MCGHEE: . tax, anti-government lobby, and that these kinds of outside
groups, like Heritage Action, which is also very much in his corner, was --
have actually increased by six folds since citizens united. So this is a
money and politics story too.

And I think when we looked at the issue of really just having health
care for every American, this is something that most Americans support but
most of the donor class, the elite donor class, is actually fueling so much
of our campaign spending. It`s actually not in support of universal health
care.

DYSON: Yeah. Well, even given that, Katrina, you know, new polling
shows that 54 percent of Americans think Republicans` controlling the House
is a bad thing for the country. So in line of what Heather just said, of
course, when we pair that, the kind of exploit, the fact is economically,
that they`re pulling off here with the real sensibilities of the American
public. They`re not just not down with that.

If Cruz pulls this again, do you think Democrats have a possibility of
regaining control of the House?

VANDEN HEUVEL: Well, I think, you know, if we had a system that was a
true democracy, we would -- the Democrats would take back the House. They
won, remember, in 2012. You know this, Michael, and others do on this
panel, right? 1.5 million were votes.

The jury (inaudible), the re-district thing that has been fueled by
the money, we just heard about Heather spoke up, is what makes this so
volatile and crazy. I mean it is a moment when the brand of the Republican
Party is on the gutter. The (inaudible) between the establishment and the
base is deliciously (ph) deep.

And the Senate looks like it will go Democratic because of the
Republican shenanigans. But the House has only 13, according to Charles
Cook, only 13 seats incumbencies are truly in play because of this crazy
redistricting that money has bought.

DYSON: Well, Tom Perriello, in light of the deliciously (ph) deep divide
and chasm that Katrina refers to, 63 percent of Americans want John Boehner
replaced as speaker. My God, are his days numbered?

PERRIELLO: Well, first of all, I think we have to not overstate how
deep the rift (ph) is on the Republican side. Ideologically, the party is
with Ted Cruz. They just disagree tactically. And I think sometimes we
let them off the hook too much.

If you looked, 2/3 of the Republican House caucus voted for this
suicide pack to take the country over a cliff even when the American public
was overwhelmingly against it. It`s not like Mitch McConnell is a moderate
who disagrees with Cruz about getting rid of Social Security and Medicare,
as we know, another thing.

So I think part of what we have to look at is where there`s a tactical
disagreement, it actually was Ted Cruz unveiling the fact that really it`s
-- the Republican Party as a whole right now that has chosen to go for
right, and the number of moderate Republicans left are few and far between,
and it`s that (inaudible) that`s protecting that majority, not actually a
majority of voters.

DYSON: So, Heather, if Tom is right, given those kind of numbers
that`s pretty (inaudible). If Boehner is replaced, isn`t there a danger of
the Tea Party person taking over from his position of authority?

MCGHEE: Well, I think, you know, there`s always going to be the
threat of primaries right now, and that is actually what -- has actually
helped to shift the party to the right.

But fundamentally, I think that we`re going to see in the next
election an opportunity for, hopefully, if people are organized, if we do
our job of organizing people and giving them reason to vote, this will be a
real referendum. It will be a real referendum on the vision for the
country that is a very separate one between conservatives and progressives
right now.

DYSON: All right. Katrina vanden Heuvel, Tom Perriello, and Heather
McGhee, thank you so much.

MCGHEE: Thank you.

PERRIELLO: Thank you.

DYSON: Coming up, the Fox News lie machine exposed. How real
stories, Fox profiled, are actually impacted by ObamaCare.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

DYSON: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, may I remind you of a
precious bit of history, Paul Robeson. "Water boy, where are you hiding?
If you don`t come out, I`m going to tell your mommy."

Well, that`s my best Paul Robeson imitation. But we`ve got another
water boy here tonight. The waterman thinks the House of Representatives
need a water break. During an interview on Fox News, Sunday host, Chris
Wallace, asked Marco Rubio if he thinks the President will delay any
immigration reform law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: The President has undermined this
effort .

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEW HOST: Sir .

RUBIO: Absolutely, the president has undermined the effort .

WALLACE: But do you agree .

RUBIO: (inaudible) over the last three weeks, the House deserves the
time and space to craft the road solution.

Now, this notion that they`re going to get on the room and negotiate a
deal with the President on immigration is much more difficult to do .

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: The Republican Senator from Florida had been a strong
supporter of immigration reform in the past but he wants the throw cold
water on it now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I certainly think that immigration reform is a lot harder to
achieve today than a while, just three weeks ago, because of what`s
happened here. That, again, I think the House deserve the time and space.
They have their own ideas. But I don`t want to move forward on this.
Let`s see what they come up with. They could very well be much better than
what the Senate had done so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: If Marco Rubio believes House Republicans deserve not to
negotiate on immigration after they shutdown the government, they could
keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks
who take a shower after work.

President Obama addressed Affordable Care Act critics today,
acknowledging enrollment issues on the HealthCare.gov website. The
admission team with reminder, however, decide may have jinxed (ph) but the
policy (inaudible).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The product is good. They health insurance that`s being
provided is good. It`s high quality and it`s affordable. People can save
money.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: And that`s why Americans are signing up. But that`s not stop
the (inaudible) campaign. Sean Hannity invited three couples on his
program who claimed to suffer under ObamaCare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our new policy that we can have, all have the same
benefits to it, anything similar though is going to rise between like 50
percent to 72 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we don`t even have insurance for our
daughter who has a pre-existing condition so we`re looking at probably
$20,000 in premiums next year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a business, we are jumping through more
hoops, more regulation, more paperwork, and we`ve also cut back on hiring
for common employees because of the health care cost involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Now, folks, the true affliction here was poor journalism from
Hannity.

Reporting for Salon.com (ph), Eric Stern conducted actual interviews
of Hannity`s guests. The results revealed thousands of dollars in savings
of the couples enrolled in ObamaCare. The guest an uninsured child due to
a pre-existing condition would receive coverage of a lower cost. The small
business owners have few enough employees that ObamaCare had no effect on
their company.

Joining me now, Dr. Corey Hebert, CEO of blackhealthtv.com and
assistant professor at LSU.

Professor, welcome to the show.

COREY HEBERT, CEO, BLACKHEALTHTV.COM: Thank you for having me. I`m
mad. I`m so mad.

DYSON: Yes. Well, you ought to be mad. I hope you`re mad about the
right thing.

HEBERT: Yes.

DYSON: Because there`s a misinformation and a disinformation.

So, look, Eric Stern`s FactCheck revealed hard numbers on healthcare
savings. The problem with most of these couples was resistance to even
investigating plans under the Affordable Care Act. What`s your reaction to
that?

HEBERT: Exactly. I mean I think that the Tea Party -- when they
start drinking that tea, they need to put some truth serum in there because
all of these couples -- none of those things that they were saying were
even true. If you think about the fact that if the company had less than
50 employees, they don`t have to do anything.

The only thing that really -- that they`re required to do is to inform
their employees about HealthCare.gov. So think about that. It`s all a
smear campaign and it`s just not fair and we cannot let Fox News and
Hannity`s right-wing extremists govern people trying to get health care in
this country.

DYSON: Well, Dr. Hebert, when ObamaCare is fully implemented, do you
expect these misinformation campaigns to wane a bit or do you think it`s
going to be just as intense?

HEBERT: I think it`s going to be just as intense because every time
you rollout something that`s going to take care of millions of people,
there going to be a few people that it doesn`t really address, you know.
It doesn`t address everybody`s illnesses.

And so, there always going to be some people that say, "You know what?
You know, this is not working for me." But they didn`t talk about the guy
that said that the got his ObamaCare after he went on the exchange for $1 a
month. I mean they don`t -- then that`s an outlier too. Those types of
outlies are always going to exist but this is going to get worse after
January 1st.

But I want to know this after January 1st, can you get insured? And,
if you have a preexisting illness, will you be bankrupt? The answer is no.
You have insurance and you won`t be bankrupt.

DYSON: Well, there are outliers and then those folks were outlined.

HEBERT: Exactly.

DYSON: And he made a point of asking whether any of his guests voted
for the President and they hadn`t. Could cost savings eventually reach
these people too?

HEBERT: The cost savings have gone to reach everyone. And then the
bad part about this is that you look at a group like the Heritage
Foundation. They are right-wing group. They`re a conservative group.
They actually endorse that individual mandate a couple of years ago for
health insurance.

So why is it bad now, because they didn`t come up with it or they did
come up with it? Now, they`re ashamed that they came up with it. I mean
this is going to give savings to those folks and all the rest of the people
in the United States. And what we have to remember is that this is for
affordable healthcare.

We give facts here on the Ed Show. So what does that mean? We`ve got
almost 20 million people that have gone to this website and 500,000 people
including myself. So we could say 500,001 have actually signed up.

So, I don`t want to hear anymore of that yappity yap on them. Tell
them to bring it on. I got all the facts for it.

DYSON: Who that, for real?

HEBERT: That`s right.

DYSON: But look, 30 seconds left. Tell us, do you think there`s a
disparity between people saying on the camera that they`re not having a
good time with this, but in secret, they`re really glad that they got this
Affordable Care Act there?

HEBERT: They are. And you know why? It`s because anything that`s
linked to the President right now is going to have a lot of controversy
with it. But let me tell you something, those people secretly, right now,
are so happy because they are going on those exchanges when they can get
through, because I`m not excusing those glitches now. That is inexcusable.

DYSON: Right.

HEBERT: But they`re going on that -- on those exchanges and they`re
getting quality healthcare. And now, they`re shaping (ph) up because they
don`t want to bring any more attention to it because they`re scared they`re
going to loss theirs.

DYSON: All right. Dr. Corey Hebert, thank you so much for your time.

HEBERT: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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