updated 10/24/2013 3:57:20 PM ET 2013-10-24T19:57:20

POLITICS NATION
October 23, 2013

AL SHARPTON, POLITICS NATION HOST: Happy Birthday to you. I have
blueberry pie for you, Dr. Dyson. Thanks to you .

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Thank you, Rev. Sharpton.

SHARPTON: Thanks to you, Dr. Dyson. Happy Birthday.

Thanks to you for tuning in. Let`s get down to the business.
Tonight`s Lead, Republicans continue to fear mongering today. New evidence
about why the Republicans continue attacking the President`s policies even
though they`re getting nowhere.

Why, because it`s personal. Today, the number two Democrat in the
Senate, Senator Dick Durbin made a stunning revelation. He wrote on his
Facebook page in a negotiation meeting with the President, one GOP House
leader told the President, "I cannot even stand to look at you."

They can`t even stand to look at him? From day one, this relentless
attack on Obamacare is deeper than policy. It`s about this president.
Both Speaker Boehner and majority leader Eric Cantor denied the comment
today. And a spokesman for the White House also denied it.

Senator Durbin has not commented, but there is no denying. Speaker
Boehner`s fear mongering about Obamacare today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We`ve got the whole
threat of Obamacare continuing to hang over our economy like a wet blanket.
Employers scare to death in terms of what they have to do, what they don`t
have to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Employers are scared to death? Really? To death?

And majority leader Cantor had the same talking points today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: The American people
are now fearful of their health care. I mean, they`re down right scared
about what`s going to happen with their health care next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Americans are downright scared. Scared of what? Getting
health coverage? But here`s what these GOP should be scared and what
should scare the daylights out of the other Republicans.

Today, a poll backs up the other three after the shutdown showing
approval of the Republican party is in free fall. Four polls, four record
lows for the party. And as they go way, one way.

Look what`s happening to Obamacare. The approval is up in all four
polls. More Americans are liking Obamacare, despite the problems with the
Web site. And this is why the right wing talkers are dusting off their
old, ugly playbook.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And here comes socialism. Obamacare
is just part of a vision for the forced sharing of American assets. That`s
a form of communism because no country could afford those payments without
seizing the assets of everybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: It`s socialism, communism. But wait, he left out Marxism.
Don`t worry, here`s Glen Beck last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLEN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW: He has all the earmarks of a Marxist
dictator. He does. He doesn`t like anybody to challenge him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Marxist dictator. Americans reject their war against the
health care law. But like a deranged energizer bunny, Republicans just
keep going, with the fear, with the hatred, with the ugliness. It`s no
wonder they can`t stand to look at the president. He winning.

Joining me now are Joy Reid and Karen Finney.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Joy, they deny it. But can you see a Republican leader telling the
president I cannot even stand to look at you?

JOY REID, MANAGING EDITOR, THE GRIO/MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: The problem
for the Republican party, Rev., is that yes, I can. I mean, if it was
completely implausible that a member of the House of representative or the
Unites States Senate would say something like that, I think that they`d
have a reason to be outraged about the story and to attack Dick Durbin the
way some have demanded he take it back, et cetera.

But the problem is, that they have created in themselves a party that
really is that vicious. They`ve been outwardly rude in disrespectful to
the president before. Members of the party have been. And their base
doesn`t just disagree with the president. There`s a part of this base that
absolutely hates this president.

SHARPTON: What you mean disrespectful to the president, you wouldn`t
be talking about saying you lie during the middle of a state of the union
address or asking for his birth certificate. So, why would we not believe
Senator Durbin, the number two, Democrat in the Senate, when he says
something that I get given things they`ve already done.

REID: And remember when Donald Trump and other people were rising to
the top of the Republican heat in the primary, before the primary really
got going in earnest. The criteria for being the number one Republican was
just how much could you attempt to belittle the president.

The reason they liked Donald Trump is that he was trying to force the
president shows his birth certificate. The more disrespectful, the more
rude. They wanted somebody to put Barack Obama in his place. That is what
they wanted out of a nominee. And to demonstrate that, you had to go
further and further to the edge of complete disrespect for the office and
the man.

SHARPTON: Yes. Well, he is in his place, the White House. But to
that point, Republicans have spent a lot of time, Karen, fear mongering
over Obamacare. Watch this. All from elected Republicans. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Men and women have looked me in the eyes
and said I`m scared for this country. I`m scared for my kids. I`m scared
for my grandkids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundreds of e-mails and phone calls expressing
real fears from folks about Obamacare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Businesses hate it. Individuals fear it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fear is that only the sick will pay to join
the exchange.

CANTOR: Which health care plan can you afford so you can see your
doctors. This is what keeps parents awake at night fearful that life is
not going to work out the way they hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Fearful, Awake at night. I mean, the bogeyman attached to
health care for people that couldn`t get health care or any insurance,
Karen.

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC HOST, DISRUPT: well, and they`ve spent millions
and millions and millions of dollars behind all of those talking points
with ads that we`ve seen and probably some that we haven`t seen, frankly.
And you know, there are all these crazy e-mails that go floating around
with all different pieces of misinformation. I mean, you know, it is a
very shameful legacy of the Republican party when this is all said and
done.

They`ve worked harder than any party in American history to deny
people health insurance. I mean, that is a shameful legacy. Rather than
working with the president, rather than trying to improve the things they
had may be had problems with, even though it contained Republican ideas,
they decided that their strategy was going to be -- they were going to go
all in on hate and fear mongering.

And instead, people are trying the system, and they`re saying, you
know what, we like it. We need health care. It`s a problem. That`s part
of their problem. If they`re not looking to solve problems, they`re
looking to take Obama down.

SHARPTON: You know, when you look at it, Joy, Republicans have
attacked this president in every which way and failed. That`s why they`re
so enraged. They swore they`d make him a one-term president, but that
didn`t work. Jim DeMint said healthcare would be his waterloo. But the
Supreme Court upheld it. Then came the birther movement, sorry. Americans
didn`t buy it.

Then it was all the scandals. Fast and furious. That went nowhere.
Remember Solyndra? Neither do most Americans. Then they were going to
impeach him over Benghazi until they couldn`t. They are going to impeach
him over the IRS until they couldn`t. They were just going to impeach him,
just over something, except they haven`t, and they won`t. And they were
going to defund Obamacare, even shut down the government. That didn`t work
either.

REID: Yes. And I think that there is this feeling, if you look at
the Stan Greenberg and other research, they have this deep feeling of loss
so that they keep losing to this president. And there is the sense among
lots of base if they are losing because their leaders keep capitulating and
letting the president roll over him. They have this narrative of that he`s
a tie rant.

You heard Allen West say that. You heard Glen Beck say that. And
this idea that in thus tyrannical way that elected president of the United
States, twice elected by a popular majority, no question, no third party
can they sort of sneaking them in. Elected outright. And they can`t
understand how the world can be configured that their ideas are not popular
and are not winning. So what they do is they just demonize the president
because in fact, their ideas just keep losing.

SHARPTON: But Karen, the thing that is ironic is while they say that
their leaders are capitulating, the president on the left is getting hit
with capitulating too much and compromising too much. And he`s being, in
many ways, in progressive and leftist circles seen as anything but a
tyrant. They consider him too much a compromise in too many cases.

FINNEY: Some -- I mean, on the left, they`re disappointed that he`s
not a socialist. Are you kidding me? I mean, with all these video, right?
Like in the Republican, I mean, if you listen to the Republicans, he`s a
socialist, Marxist, Islamist, you know, born in another country. I saw one
crazy story today that said actually he lied about being born outside of
the country because of, he wanted to get into college. I mean, you know,
it just doesn`t stop.

But I think one of the things, Rev., about this, and you talked about
this before that I think we have to mention as part of this is yes, he
takes some hits from the left. But usually the hits from the left are
based on substance and not style and not personal the way we`ve seen it
come from the right. It`s all a part of this other ring of our president.

And one of the things as an American I`m frustrated by is I think it`s
disgusting what they`ve done to this president in terms of using race and
racial overtones. At the same time that`s denigrating the office of the
presidency. They should not be denigrating the man and they should not be
denigrating the office of the presidency.

SHARPTON: You know, Karen, how do you explain with them taking all
these hits in the polls? They keep doing this over and over again and they
are paying a terrific political price for it.

FINNEY: Yes. Well, I think some are starting to recognize that there
is, there may be a real price. I mean, you know, you also see reports that
some Democratic campaigns are now approaching business leaders. Some
business leaders who might have open, you know, only supporting Republicans
in the past.

But you know, Stan Greenberg, Greenberg research had a great piece out
earlier this week that showed that Ted Cruz is actually kind of the
mainstream in the Republican Party. And so, I think we have to look at
that and say, if that`s true, then they must believe that their voters,
regardless of the fact that they`re unpopular with the majority of
Americans, they continue to be popular with that narrow base.

SHARPTON: Joy, do you think that the forecast now, that something
that was unthinkable 90 days ago, six months ago, that the Democrats now
are in play to retake the House is that just a temporary hype or is it now
something that could be reality, given these record low polls for the
Republicans?

REID: Right. I think it actually is a possibility. At least it`s
more of a possibility than it was before the shutdown. And the reason for
that is that it has not just tainted the tea party. It`s tainted the
Republican brand itself. And you`ve had brand tainting event ever since
the 2012, the 47 percent. Over time, the Republican brand has been
denigrated, particularly with swing voters and suburban voter, what`s left
in the Republican Party. And I think when people been think Republican,
yes, it`s a year from now, but Democrats are not going to allow people to
forget. And I think Republicans have themselves a very serious problem in
the House and probably closed off any chance of getting the Senate.

SHARPTON: Karen Finney and Joy Reid, thank your time tonight.

REID: Thank you.

FINNEY: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: And watch "Disrupt with Karen Finney" weekends at 4:00 p.m.
eastern right here on MSNBC.

Ahead, the Republican shutdown free fall. How bad is it? A former
Republican presidential candidate is calling out quote "ideological whack
jobs."

And the evolution of anti-Obama conspiracy theories. How they go from
the talkers to this voter in North Carolina?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: You don`t think President Obama loves
this country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all. Not one bit, not one breath that
comes out of his body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Plus another day, another right-winger embracing the
confederate flag. Only this time, the person`s eyeing the U.S. Senate.

Also, friend or foe, I want to know. :Reply Al" is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The tea party thinks Ted Cruz is the greatest thing since
sliced bread. But some of those closest allies are now in real political
trouble. Is the GOP cracking up? That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: If you do unpopular things, you become unpopular. So how
unpopular was the shutdown?

This unpopular. Four polls and four record lows for the GOP after the
shutdown. Today, Ted Cruz`s right hand man, Utah Senator Mike Lee is
feeling the heat. "The Washington Post` reports GOP backlash over the
shutdown, a Romney campaign chairman called him a show horse who just wants
to be a spectacle, his approval rating is down ten points since June.

So how`s the shutdown leader Ted Cruz doing? Well, the conservative
chamber of commerce president says the business community would like Cruz
to sit down and shut up. But he`s not ready for that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: I`ll tell you, I`m hopeful. With a little bit of time and
reflection that Senate Republicans would decide to come together again. I
would love to see Republican unity, to have all of us stand together
against this train wreck that is Obamacare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: There is only one train wreck here, the GOP and is about to
get worst.

In Ohio, pro-life groups and Republican lawmakers are suing Ohio to
block the Medicaid expansion. The billionaire Koch brothers are funding
state campaigns to deny poor people healthcare. Looks like the polls are
about to go even lower.

Joining me now, Abby Huntsman and Michelle Cottle. Thank you for
being here.

ABBY HUNTSMAN, MSNBC HOST, THE CYCLE: Thanks for having us.

MICHELLE COTTLE, WASHINGTON REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST, NEWSWEEK:
Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: Abby, the polls show the shutdown record lows but they
don`t seem ready to change. Where is the party, the Republican party
headed?

HUNTSMAN: It`s a little confusing, isn`t it? And then, especially
when you look at Senator Ted Cruz, the poster child for this defund
Obamacare was on arriving home last weekend to a standing ovation of nearly
800 people. And then you see his sidekick Senator Mike Lee from Utah
arriving home last weekend with the opposite reaction when the most
arguably the conservative state in the country saying, you know, we`re
actually furious over your extreme antics. Not only have you embarrassed
the party, but you have put the state in Utah in some trouble economically.
They rely very much on, you know, the state parks and tourism which were
shut down over the last three weeks.

So it`s a bit confusing. It`s a bit muddled. And you know, when we
talked about this three months ago, about the races being challenged by the
far right, we were pretty much sure that it was going to be an uphill
battle for many on the right of center. But now when you look at the
backlash of the shutdown, you look at the GOP`s taking a huge hit. And
we`re now aware of just how deep the divide is.

So now, the question is, how is the backlash from the shutdown
actually going to affect the primary, the midterm elections and that`s
really anybody`s guess.

SHARPTON: You know, Abby, talking about Mike Lee, your father, former
Republican governor John Huntsman who once employed Mike Lee in the
governor`s office had some strong words for him today. He said and I`m
quoting your father. "You don`t have ideological whack jobs for all of
this labeling, all of its labeling as a red state underneath it all. Utah
is a pretty pragmatic western state, a just get it done ethos."

HUNTSMAN: He`s exactly right. You know, as I said, Utah is the most
conservative state in the country, but at the end of the day, they`re the
type of conservative, they want lower taxes, they want smaller government.
They believe in strong family values. And you know what they want, they
want their elected officials to solve their problems. They actually want
them to govern.

And I think you see something different in Texas. That`s a whole
different bucket of conservatism. But I`m glad that my dad stepped in
because that is exactly right. And I wouldn`t be surprised if Mike Lee was
actually challenged by a moderate Democrat complaint (INAUDIBLE) who was
very well like in the state of Utah, very strong. He was congressman for
number of year. You may see that play out. You may see a Democratic
senator in Utah in a few years.

SHARPTON: How much trouble are they in, Michelle?

COTTLE: Well, I think with the house, you don`t have the same
dynamic, because you do it district by district. And a lot of the guys who
were trying to shutdown Obamacare are from safe districts where expected to
do this.

But it does get interesting when you start looking at senators who
have to appeal to an entire state. And a big question starts to be, you
know, how alienated is the business community which doesn`t like this kind
of nonsense. It doesn`t like shutdowns that impact the economy.

You know, if the Republican Party some starts alienating its big
business donors, then, it`s just going to wind up relying on, you know, the
senate conservatives fund and tea party donors. And that will be an
interesting split that could impact them in the long run.

SHARPTON: And then, you know, Michelle, you talk about the Senators
roll call, put together a list of seven Republican senators who are most
vulnerable to a primary challenge. And the list includes Mitch McConnell,
Lindsey Graham and John Cornyn. Now, these are not freshmen senators.
Graham and Cornyn have been senators for a decade, McConnell for nearly 30
years.

COTTLE: Exactly. And I think McConnell was the most interesting case
because obviously, he`s the Republican leader, you know. That said, a lot
of those races are very early, and they`re expected to come off the
endangered list as we go down the road. But McConnell has a fight on his
hands. I mean, he is facing this tea party challenger. And the more money
he has to spend and the more attacks he suffers kind of weakens him going
what is right now a pretty strong Democratic challenger, stronger than he`s
had in a while.

HUNTSMAN: You know, you can already see the ads against McConnell
from the far-right showing him buddy-buddy with Harry Reid. I think the
choice is going to be very clear between the far right candidate and a
Mitch McConnell. You either will see him as someone that was pretty heroic
in the shutdown wanting to work together with the other side to get things
done or as someone that portrayed weakness. The guy that blinked, you
know, when he shouldn`t have.

So, I think you can already picture how that one is going to play out.
It will be interesting to see if he can pull it out in the end.

SHARPTON: Yes. And I`m sure we are going to see a lot of those
photos.

Michelle, what opportunities does any of this present to the Obama
administration once we get past the Web site glitches as an issue. Are
there any opportunities in this kind of new political landscape that you
can see for the Obama administration?

COTTLE: Well, if we`re talking about the Obamacare going forward, I
mean, he`s got a pretty good argument to make that the Republicans had
their shot and it`s time for them to come together, and they can address
whatever specific fixes need to be made. You know, as far as other issues,
I think immigration, he`s planning to come out charging on this and say OK,
we`ve all had our fun. We have all had our tantrum. We need to once again
hunker down and do the Americans` work. And in fact, this is exactly what
he said post-shutdown in his address the next day.

SHARPTON: All right, Abby Huntsman and Michelle Cottle, thank you
both for your time.

And catch Abby on "the Cycle" weekdays at 3:00 right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, Rush Limbaugh and friends are a factory of anti-Obama
conspiracy. Tonight, we`ll show you what happens when their listeners
start to believe the smears.

But first, nice try we got you. The head of RNC talks a big game
about outreach, but not everyone got the message. We`re looking at you,
North Carolina, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The first step is admitting there`s a problem. And after
the election, RNC chair Reince Priebus vowed to reach out to minority
voters. This week in North Carolina, the RNC opened and African-American
engagement office in Charlotte and hailed it as a historic moment for the
party. That`s great news. I applaud this outreach.

But on the same day, the same day the African-American engagement
office opened, Republican state officials were asking a federal court to
throw out lawsuits over North Carolina`s strict voter ID law which
disproportionate lay effect minority voters.

That doesn`t sound like very effective outreach to me. So, let`s hear
from the governor Pat McCrory. I`m sure he was at the great opening.
Wait, he wasn`t there? He was in Washington speaking at Jim DeMint`s
heritage foundation defending his radical voter ID law?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAT MCCRORY (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I think the Eric Holder`s
lawsuit is both political and without merit. As our laws have been greatly
exaggerated. It`s common sense reform which protects the integrity of our
ballot box.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Common sense? How is the most draconian voter ID law in
the country common sense? Of the seven million votes cast in the 2012
election in North Carolina, there was a 0.000714 percent fraud rate. How
is it common sense to find a solution to a problem that doesn`t exist.
They aren`t trying to reach out.

At the same time, making it harder for the African-American voters to
vote? Reince Priebus and Governor McCrory, did you think we wouldn`t see
through this PR stunt? Nice try. But I have a new voter ID card for you,
both of you. It reads, we got you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The far right talkers on TV and radio will say just about
anything to attack President Obama. Kicking around stuff that only makes
sense in their own right-wing bubble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This is what we have. As a
president, a radical ideologue, ruthless politician who despises the
country.

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Invited the Muslim brotherhood and
their leadership into our White House.

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The American voter has changed into a
person who wants free stuff.

BECK: Please spare us your Marxist propaganda bull crap.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: But all this toxic rhetoric does, doesn`t just go into a
vacuum. Millions of people listen to these conspiracy theories and start
to believe them.

MSNBC contributor Jonathan Capehart found that out first hand. He
traveled to North Carolina and heard conservatives reveal their true
feelings about the president. He was struck by one man in particular who
repeated a lot of what we`ve heard on the far right, including this talking
point about Muslim brotherhood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: About two years ago the Muslim brotherhood had a
thousand of their people come to east lawn for a prayer session.

JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: The Muslim Brotherhood had --

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They a huge gathering. They had prayer on the east
lawn of the White House. It was in the news. There are so many people
within his administration that are part of it. They`re admitted members of
the Muslim brotherhood.

CAPEHART: Who, who exactly?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I don`t know their -- they`re not English.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Giant Muslim prayer meetings on the east lawn of the White
House? There is no east lawn of the White House. And the theory that the
Muslim brotherhood has infiltrated the Obama administration? It seems like
a joke, but it can be traced back to the talkers. And even members of
Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: You will see that he is so deeply in bed with the Muslim
brotherhood.

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Anytime in any nation that
they could choose the side of the Muslim brotherhood, they`ve chosen the
side of the Muslim brotherhood.

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: This administration has so many Muslim
brotherhood members that have influence that they just are making wrong
decisions for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: And this isn`t the only fringe theory about the president
that`s getting picked up across the country. Here`s more of Jonathan`s
interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He has done so many things in violation of the
constitution.

CAPEHART: You don`t think President Obama loves this country?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Not at all. Not one bit, not one breath that comes
out of his body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: This man thinks the president doesn`t love this country or
follow the constitution. That is no mystery where he got at idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIMBAUGH: This man hates this country.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: He is the president of a country that
clearly, I`m beginning to wonder if he even likes.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The constitution does not confer this kind of power
on the president.

LIMBAUGH: He`s in the process of wreaking as much damage to the
constitution as he can get away with.

SHARPTON: The right wing talkers` point is venom into the
conservative groundwater. People start to believe it, and it is totally
waltzed our political debate.

Joining me now is Jonathan Capehart who conducted that interview.
Thanks for being here, Jonathan.

CAPEHART: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: Claiming the president doesn`t love this country that his
administration has members of the Muslim brotherhood, I mean, what is your
reaction?

CAPEHART: Well, remember, we went to so many -- our colleague and I
went down to North Carolina to talk to people on the eve of the launch of
the health care exchanges just to find out what folks thought about
ObamaCare, whether they liked it and how much they knew about it. And for
David Jackson, the man we`ve seen the clips of the interview from, that was
the beginning, or the tip of the iceberg for the amount of misinformation
and conspiracy theories that he held onto.

When he talked about the prayer service where 1,000 members of the
Muslim brotherhood on the east lawn of the White House, you couldn`t see my
face, but I just sort of looked at him, that`s a story. Who was it? When
was this? He said it was on the news. But of course we all know that that
didn`t happen, and as you rightly pointed out, there is no east lawn of the
White House.

SHARPTON: It would be funny, but this is real. I mean, another
conspiracy this man bought into is, was that Osama bin Laden wasn`t really
killed. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPEHART: What about the capture and killing of Osama bin Laden?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I don`t think that ever really happened. No one
would ever give up a SEAL team`s names or what SEAL team went in there. I
think that was a great mystery that they created. I do not believe they
killed him. I will never believe it. Especially dropping him off at sea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now Jonathan, you really looked shocked there. But what
was going through your mind?

CAPEHART: Well, I mean, it was, I heard so many things, Rev, in that
interview that I thought I was on top of a lot of this stuff, but I`d never
heard any one question the killing of Osama bin Laden, adding to the list
of conspiracy theories that people on the far right believed about this --

SHARPTON: But that`s where it comes from Jonathan. Because listen to
this. Because, it amazed me when I heard it. But listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Is it possible that Osama bin Laden has been ghosted out of his
compound?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Do you believe he`s dead? Or do you want some more
evidence, a photograph, a testimony of an eyewitness, something other than
the words of a president whose words we have doubted before.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Ladies and gentlemen, this was completely staged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I mean, this is about national security. Shouldn`t be
politicized. But why wouldn`t they accept the truth?

CAPEHART: You know, Rev, I don`t know, other than to say that they
have never liked this president. They have never trusted this president.
As David Jackson told me flat out, he said I`m not afraid of anyone, but I
am afraid of him. They don`t like him. They don`t trust him. And they
don`t believe anything that he says, even when you present them with
evidence that what they`re saying, what they`re propagating is not true.

SHARPTON: Now the man you interviewed, David Jackson, had some
intense opinions about ObamaCare too. Let`s listen to more of your
interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It will benefit a very small amount of people. And
it will be the ones that are too lazy or unwilling to work. Along with the
millions and millions of illegal aliens in this country. Look at them.
They`re getting food stamps. They get welfare. They get aid for dependent
children. They get food. They help them with their housing. And they`re
not even supposed to be in our country. They want our health care. They
want our food. They want our money. They don`t pay taxes. And they`ll
look right at you and tell you I don`t speak English and laugh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I mean, first of all, undocumented immigrants can`t get
insurance under the Affordable Care Act. And we hear the same talking
points, though, Jonathan, about immigrants and benefits from the right
wing. Listen to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: They`re encouraging illegal immigrants to apply for food
stamps. In other words, you pay for it.

LIMBAUGH: They represent the demographic profile the Democrats want.
They want relatively poor people that depend on government for their
prosperity.

BECK: Why doesn`t mom just say I need to go across so I can get the
free health care at the hospital right there?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Why is it so significant that these talkers are connecting
and influencing these Americans? Because the point of this is not just to
expose some of the things, the untruths this man obviously believes, but to
show how these talkers and these opinion builders on the right are really
sinking in to really average Americans who believe this stuff.

CAPEHART: Right. Some of the things that Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck
or any of these other folks say might be done for entertainment purposes.
We can`t really know if they really believe half of the hyperbolic stuff
that they say, but the problem is they`ve got huge audiences. And as we
see with David Jackson and millions of other people, they believe it. One
of the reasons why the whole birther conspiracy or birther lie was kept
going for so long was because they kept whipping this up. And even with
the short form, short version of the president`s birth certificate, and
even after the release of the long form of the president`s birth
certificate there were people who still would not believe the truth when it
was staring them directly in the face.

SHARPTON: Great interview, Jonathan Capehart. Great work. Thank you
for your time tonight.

CAPEHART: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: And for more of Jonathan`s interview, head to our Facebook
page. Facebook.com/POLITICSNATION.

Still ahead, we`ve seen it waved in front of the White House. But now
a potential Senate candidate is embracing the confederate flag as well.

Plus, she`s one of Sarah Palin`s original mama grizzlies. But now a
Tea Party congresswoman has everyone talking once again. Wait until you
see why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: One hundred fifty years after the emancipation
proclamation, the legacy of slavery is suddenly back in our political
debate. Today Mother Jones reported that a rising Tea Party star in
Mississippi who`s launching a primary challenge of a GOP senator spoke this
summer at a neo-confederate group that promotes succession. The official
flyer for the group invited all you politically incorrect folks to dress
out in confederate uniforms and antebellum ball gowns. On their website,
you can see photos of these folks playing, dressed up during past events.
Come out in their confederate best. This year we`ve seen a confederate
flag waved outside the White House and more and more right-wingers making
offensive comments about slavery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: ObamaCare is really, I think, the worst thing that
has happened in this nation since slavery. And it is in a way, it is
slavery.

LIMBAUGH: The Republicans, well, we can`t do anything to about it.
The law is the law. It`s the law of the land. Well, so was slavery one
time the law of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: When a government forces hospitals and physicians
to provide free health care to those who can`t or won`t pay for it
themselves, that`s not charity, that`s slavery.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: This insurance card in people`s pockets is going to
be as worthless as a confederate dollar after the War Between the States,
the Great War or Yankee Aggression

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: All of this represents a profound misreading of American
history and of African-American history in particular. The country needs a
better understanding of the black experience in America, past, present, and
future.

That`s why I was so happy to have a chance to speak with Harvard
Professor Henry Louis Gates and investor Glenn Hutchins who donated $15
million to help Professor Gates launch the new Hutchens Center for African
and African-American research. The largest center of its kind in the
country. I began by asking Dr. Gates why the center was so important now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY LOUIS GATES, JR., HARVARD PROFESSOR: I think that the challenge
of race and class differentials, the greatest challenge to American
democracy that we can possibly face in the 21st century. And we need think
tanks, the equivalent of sort of centrist to the Brookings or the Aspen
Institute, for the study specifically of the interactivity of race and
class. And that`s what the Hutchens Center is going to able to do.

SHARPTON: Why is this is so important to you, Glen?

GLENN HUTCHINS, CO-FOUNDER, SILVER LAKE: What we`ve been able to do
with this effort is to create the world`s leading center for African-
American studies by a wide margin. It`s going to be a center of
excellence, and the opportunity to be associated of something that
importance, it is a real privilege for me. And secondly, it`s a very
important topic that, you know, people with the election of Barack Obama,
you know, all sorts of talk about living in a post-racial society and then
we had something like the Trayvon Martin decision. We realized there are
still lots of things for us to talk about.

SHARPTON: Right.

HUTCHINS: And lots of understanding and gaps that needed to be
bridged in reconciliation and understand the -- and so to be able to create
the dominant, the juggernaut in the field, something that`s so important
for our society, it`s a unique opportunity. For me it looks like, I`m
investor. It`s a great investment.

SHARPTON: What do you hope the center in doing this, what do you and
what do you Glenn hope we address in a contemporary setting?

GATES: We talk frequently, as you well know, about the need for a
conversation about race. And by that, we usually are spurge to have that
conversation by a terrible tragedy. And then we get together. We have the
left and the right. We try to voice for press feelings and come to some
kind of harmonious result at the end of the day. Then two weeks later,
Reverend, it happens all over again. We need the story of our people, the
story of race to be an inextricably, intertwined part of the story of
American history. As much as I love black history months started of course
by --

SHARPTON: Right.

GATES: It`s not enough. Every day has to be black history month.
And we have to do it without the banners, without the signals and without
the flags.

SHARPTON: Glenn, last year at around, table hosted by the Wall Street
Journal you said, and I`m quoting you, a lot of people think the system
doesn`t serve them, that the American dream is broken. How does your work
with this new center help to repair that dream?

HUTCHINS: I`d like for us to focus on rising inequality in our
country, because I`m very interested in economic issues as an investor and
someone who worked in the White House and other places on economic matters.
Skip has told me that since Martin Luther King died, the black upper middle
class has expanded by a factor of four, the black middle class by a factor
of two.

GATES: That`s right.

HUTCHINS: Exact right, but the same percent of children, amount of
chair have been born into poverty. These have all been aggravated by the
financial crisis and the very slow recovery we`ve been in where the job
creations been so anemic.

SHARPTON: Right.

HUTCHINS: And to get that, how we can address those set of issues, I
think will be a very important contribution we can make.

GATES: We have to figure out how to increase the science of the black
middle class. How to move people from the no class -- middle class and
nobody is talking about that. And that`s what we want to --

HUTCHINS: And important thing about a center that we have is we`re
reaching out into the community. This is taking the ideas that are
generated in the university and bringing them to the community.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you this, Glenn, you and Henry traveled together
this summer to the anniversary to march on Washington. One of the things I
remember looking out there and you actually were together, your son took a
class from Henry. I mean, this, what I called unusual, different relation
has gotten very personal. Why, what happened? And what --

HUTCHINS: You`re missing the most important person who was with us
that day, which was my 93 year old mother who had been there 50 years ago,
unlike the rest of us.

GATES: Yes. That`s right.

HUTCHINS: And she was the one who insisted that we go and she was
sitting in her wheelchair right there between the two of us.

SHARPTON: Yes.

HUTCHINS: Which was great.

GATES: That was fantastic.

HUTCHINS: I call her miss marguerite.

(LAUGHTER)

SHARPTON: And she was at the original march.

HUTCHINS: Yes. Fifty years ago. And she insisted we bring her back.

SHARPTON: And what was that experience like for you and your mother
sitting there with Henry Lewis Gates?

HUTCHINS: To see all the young people there who were engaged in this
again.

SHARPTON: Yes.

HUTCHINS: The one thing I would have been disappointed if it was been
like one of those rock concerts where everybody`s over 50 years old.

SHARPTON: Right.

HUTCHINS: You know what I mean?

SHARPTON: Yes.

HUTCHINS: And to have all the young people there and have them across
a variety of kind of skin colors. You know, I mean, just, and to have them
feel a new called action was a cause of great optimism for me.

SHARPTON: I`m going to have to leave it there. We`re excited about
this, though. And we hope to come and see the center.

GATES: Thank you. And you know, it`s the largest single donation in
the history of the field of African-American study.

SHARPTON: Wow!

Plus, the Henry Lewis Gates and Glenn Hutchins, thank you both for
your time tonight.

HUTCHINS: Thank you so much.

GATES: Thank you.

SHARPTON: The Hutchins Center launched earlier this month with an art
gallery designed studio, Research Institute and even a hip-hop archive.
It`s an important resource center. If you`re up in the Boston area, it`s
definitely worth visiting.

One of Sarah Palin`s mama grizzlies is making headlines for all the
wrong reasons. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: GOP Congresswoman Renee Ellmers is known for many things.
For example, she`s one of the original mama grizzlies that Sarah Palin
helped sweep into office. Another thing she`s known for, a stance on gun
control. She hates it. But don`t worry. She believes in gun safety. On
her website, it says that the congresswoman, quote, "believes that gun
owners must be responsible for the use and care of their guns."

Well, how about that? That makes this headline interesting. Quote,
"An unsecured AR-15 rifle was reported stolen from Representative Ellmers`
home. Well, that`s not really her fault, I mean, surely it was locked up,
right? Wrong. Quote, "The weapon had been left leaning up against a gun
locker in an unlocked garage." Now the weapon belonged to Ellmers` son and
the congresswoman wasn`t home at the time, but instances like this prove we
need stricter gun laws, right?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RENEE ELLMERS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Guns in the hands of
criminals are a problem. And until we address those issues, and until we
address the issues that lead to crime in our society, then we`re going to
continue to have this problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Folks, a gun in the hand of a criminal is definitely a
problem. But so is leaving an assault rifle unlocked in the garage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: It`s time for Reply Al. Remember, friend or foe, I want to
know. Connie writes, "Will the Tea Party House members make up the $24
billion that we lost in their 16-day shutdown?"

No, I don`t believe they will. I think that they are even still
determined to try to block ObamaCare or the Affordable Care Act. I think
what we should be doing is planning to retire those members of Congress
that are responsible for the shutdown and are not protecting the American
people and getting health care for those that need it.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
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