updated 10/28/2013 11:17:04 AM ET 2013-10-28T15:17:04

THE ED SHOW
October 25, 2013
Guest: Louise Slaughter, Chuck Rocha, David Cay Johnston, Mike Papantonio,
Stephanie Miller


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Top of the (inaudible) just know I have a whole
bag of .

ED SCHULTZ, HOST, THE ED SHOW: Why are there 600 corporate
consultants who know more about it than the members of Congress?

LORI WALLACH, PUBLIC CITIZEN: The way you think about is as a
corporate Trojan horse.

SCHULTZ: We can get President Obama thinking correctly on this.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are still plenty
of details to work out but we are confident that we can do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Full disclosure
off the top, I gained six pounds in England. My back is sore and I`m a
little alley (ph) tonight.

And normally, when I`m alley (ph), I really tell it like it is, so
fasten your seatbelt, OK? Now, this show tonight is all about trying to
get President Obama to see the world the way Liberals see it on this
particular issue. We don`t want to stir the president wrong but this is
one of the stories that the Tea Party and Unions intersect, that`s right.

See, the Tea Partiers are always out there saying, "We want our
country back." Question is, tonight, do you want to give it away? The Tea
Partiers always say that they`re about the constitution. Well, let`s talk
about the constitution tonight in sovereignty.

Now, good middleclass jobs are on the verge of being sold out. And
there`s very few people talking about it and I want to know why. There is,
in the news, the budget, Obamacare. Now, we`re talking immigration again.
But there`s also the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And this, of course, is a
free-trade deal that is anything but transparent. That is the first red
flag for every American.

And I want to tell you that if this deal passes, it will be the
largest free-trade agreement in American history. That`s not good. This
is a story that every American I believe needs to pay attention to, and
make no mistake, this trade partnership is dangerous for America. I don`t
want to use Republican rhetoric (ph) talking points, but this is a fact.
This is going to be wage killer, this is going to be a job killer, and
there is simply no upside for American workers.

So, tonight, I`m asking the Democrats, can you make a full statement
on this? I would like to hear where Nancy Pelosi stands on this. I`d like
to hear from the progressive Democratic caucus. I`d like to hear from the
Congressional Black Caucus, because across the board, I don`t think the
Democrats can go around the country talking about how they support the
middleclass and then fast-track this hammer.

The partnership would of course consist of 12 countries, the United
States, Mexico, Canada is going to be in there, and of course, Japan,
Singapore, Vietnam, and Australia. And I should point out that there are
dissenting voices in a lot of those countries.

South Korea, by the way, is also considering joining the partnership.
But, of course, negotiations are being held behind close doors in secrecy.
The White House has barred members of Congress from discussing specific
terms of the deal but some members of Congress are speaking out.
Congresswoman Louise Slaughter of New York put out a press release,
highlighting the already massive trade deficit with South Korea.

As of August, the trade deficit with South Korea was over $14 billion.
Congresswoman Slaughter also wrote a letter to President Obama saying, "I
am increasingly concerned. Our trade negotiators are making the same
mistakes made in previous trade agreements."

Now, these agreements, she says, have decimated American manufacturing
jobs and companies, amen to that. And the numbers are there to back it up.
She`s absolutely spot-on.

Since NAFTA was passed in 1994, it`s estimated that five million
manufacturing jobs in this country have been lost. Over 60,000
manufacturing facilities have been closed. Now, to qualify that number,
this is manufacturing jobs of 25 or more in a shop, 60,000.

Ohio Senator, Sherrod Brown, is also speaking out of the dangers of
the deal. Here`s what he told me back in September.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO SENATOR: The Congress and the Administration,
both parties don`t seem have learned much about trade when, you know, it
was NAFTA, it was PNTR with China then it was a host of smaller countries
then it was (inaudible) then some other sense.

And each time they promise jobs, each time our trade deficit grows --
I`m concerned because you are about an investor state, where our company
can sue -- a company has the right to sue another country to actually sue
the government of another country? That undermines all kinds of
democratically attained help and safety rules and regulations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And Senator Brown from Ohio is totally correct about U.S.
sovereignty. This is where the Tea Party should be alarmed. According to
a leak document, foreign corporations within the United States would be
permitted to appeal key American legal rulings to an international
tribunal? Holy smokes, Michele Bachmann, where are you?

A number of unions have come out against the deal including the
Communication Workers of America, the AFL-CIO. CWA President, Larry Cohen,
recently wrote an aped without a floor for wages and worker`s rights. U.S
workers will again lose out multinational corporations, in this continuing
race to the bottom, will be happy to send jobs to Vietnam and every other
subsistence-wage nation.

Meanwhile, hold the phone. There seems to be only one Democrat on
board so far with the TPP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And we can do even more when it comes to exports, which is why
I`m out there negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and now,
Transatlantic Trade Partnership. They will allow us to create a high
standard, enforceable, meaningful trade agreement with essentially 2/3rds
of the world markets, which is going to be incredibly powerful for American
companies who, up and until this point, have often been locked up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Time out. President Obama, can you tell us who is
counseling you on this one because you`re getting some bad advice? Oh, by
the way, you know who`s for this? The Coke Brothers. Wow, that`s what I
thought when I started reading up on this.

This could be President Obama`s worst move ever. We need to make sure
he doesn`t do it. This isn`t about being against President Obama. This is
about being for American workers. There is no way the democrats can go
around this country and claim that they are supporting the middleclass and
let this go untouched. It is a height of hypocrisy to allow this to be
fast-tracked with no pushback whatsoever.

The TPP has been crafted behind closed doors. I can`t say that
enough. There has been no public debate. I mean I`d love to come out here
and tell you every damn detail about this. Yes, but I can`t. It`s
impossible because of the secrecy. But one thing I do know, this deal
verifies that multinational corporations control the economy of the United
States. I`d like to know who is President Obama listening to? Fair
question.

We should not be handing over our U.S. sovereignty to foreign
corporations who were pissed off the way we do business or bad (ph) laws in
this country. It is bad for workers and President Obama needs to stand up
and rethink this entire thing.

And let me point out that labor carried President Obama to two terms
in the White House. And I think you could make the case, if it weren`t for
labor, President Obama might not even be in the White House.

Now, there were a lot of things that we`re jelling (ph) to get the
president elected and re-elected. But, let`s face it, labor boots on the
ground or infrastructure, they had a heck of a lot to do with it, and they
have a heck of a lot to lose right now.

Democrats need to stand up and fight on the TPP -- or at least can we
have an open conversation about it? It should be a wake up call for the
middleclass in this country. And no, I`m not a turncoat on President Obama
nor am I a turncoat on the Democrats. I`m for American workers and have
been for years. I am for rebuilding the middleclass in this country. This
story is headed in the wrong direction for Democrats and workers for this
country.

And I find it very interesting how the Tea Party is so silent about
the national sovereignty issue. This might even qualify for a march. What
are all these radical right wing talkers who claim that they are for
America? Oh, this is free markets? No.

Bottom line, folks, this is a point where we have to draw the line.
We have to have some level of protectionism in this country if we are going
to rebuild the American middleclass and be a strong economic engine again.

If you think 7.2 percent on unemployment is good and that things are
getting better, you pass this, you`re going to see a lot of jobs in Vietnam
for $0.25 an hour.

I tweeted out today, if you`re a parent, think about your son or
daughter few years from now losing a job to somebody in Vietnam for that
kind of wage. Get your cellphones. I do want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question, should President Obama give the country more
details on the TPP? Text A for yes, Text B for no to 67622, you can always
go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. We`re bringing the results later on in the
show.

For more, let me bring in Congresswoman Louise Slaughter of New York
and also the President of the Communication Workers of America, Larry
Cohen. Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Congresswoman, you first. Why is President Obama advocating for this?
What`s the upside?

LOUISE SLAUGHTER (D), CONGRESSWOMAN: I will tell you, there`s
absolutely no evidence that any of the trade agreements that United States
has made since I`ve been in Congress had benefited in any way the American
manufacture or the American worker.

We`ve been desperately heard. I represent an area of State of New
York, Rochester, New York. Eastman Kodak, after it was signed, it was a
really great going concern. It has now just gone through bankruptcy,
something that nobody would have ever expected.

I`m worried about TPP because Hickey-Freeman is one of the last
wonderful iconic companies in my district. And we understand that TPP
benefits Vietnam to the extent that that they will have more privileges
that we don`t have.

I also have a bill to stop what we`re doing and to give us an
opportunity to snapback in the way we regard these things. Remember, Ed,
it`s not the tariff that hurts us. What hurts us are the barriers that
they throw up to keep them from accepting our goods.

SCHULTZ: Sure. But why is the President for this, I find him a great
President?

SLAUGHTER: I don`t know. We talked -- I talked with him before
Korea. There were 26 car dealers in all of South Carolina -- South Korea
that sold American cars, and now, as you pointed out earlier, that we are
really coming up the short-end again with this trade. It`s like we count
(ph) cars as a super power.

If everything in the world that we need, in this world, is made some
places else and we have to import it.

SCHULTZ: OK.

SLAUGHTER: It makes no sense to me, none.

SCHULTZ: Larry Cohen, how can Democrats run around the country say
they`re for the middleclass and allow this to slip through?

LARRY COHEN, PRESIDENT, CWA: They can`t do it but -- they cannot do
that. But fortunately, not only numbers slaughtered (ph) but 133 other
Democrats have already signed on to a letter authored by Rose Dolor (ph) of
Connecticut and George Miller (ph) of California, saying to the President,
"No fast track, no trade promotion authority unless we get worker`s rights,
unless we get environmental rights." The environmental side of this is at
least as bad.

SLAUGHTER: Yes.

COHEN: And for us to continue on this track is insanity.

SCHULTZ: What about the U.S. .

SLAUGHTER: Let me -- may I?

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, go ahead.

SLAUGHTER: Yeah. I just want to (inaudible) for a minute, the reason
you don`t have fast-track is, in 2007, I was Chair of the rules committee.
Fast-track is part of the purview at the rules committee and we took it
away.

SCHULTZ: OK.

SLAUGHTER: And I`m working with George and Rose, I have to say it,
we`re not going to (inaudible) that.

SCHULTZ: Well, the President is asking for fast-track. The President
is asking for fast-track. It is economic meeting. That`s what he talked
about, which I find puzzling. I mean there is no doubt that this is going
to be a wage killer and a job killer. This is going to be outsourcing .

SLAUGTHER: They`ve all been there.

SCHULTZ: . on steroids.

SLAUGTHER: Yes. They have all been there.

COHEN: Let me just add, Ed, that it`s not the only the $0.25 an hour
minimum wage in Vietnam which is 3 percent of our pathetically low minimum
wage, 3 percent, but it`s also service jobs.

In the Philippines alone, which is poised to become number 13 or 14
because other nations can join, 750,000 call center jobs have grow in there
in the last 10 years, almost all the customers are in the United States.
How do we expect to revive an economy if we send those kinds of jobs out of
this country? No other nation does it, only this country is doing it.
That`s not growth.

SCHULTZ: It`s not. Congresswoman, what about the U.S. Sovereignty
issues?

SLAUGTHER: Well I -- we`ve given it a way. You know, it started
after the World War II (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: You mean to tell me -- wait a minute, you mean to tell me in
this agreement -- if this agreement goes through .

SLAUGTHER: Yes.

SCHULTZ: . multinationals are going to be able to go two-way,
international body that will circumference (ph) us all?

SLAUGTHER: Absolutely, (inaudible) trade organization, but all of
that, they didn`t complain about our clear air, clean water, our
environment legislation, as a trade barrier to them. How stupid is that?

SCHULTZ: Are all unions against this, Larry?

COHEN: Well, I think, again, we work in a broader front. I think,
virtually, all unions are against it, but just as importantly. It`s green
peace. It`s the Sierra (ph) Club. It`s food safety organization. It`s
consumer groups. This is a broad array of organizations with millions of
American members that are saying to this President, you know, "Listen to us
not just the 600 multinationals who don`t care where they are in their
profits."

SLAUGTHER: No.

COHEN: Their profits can be earned anywhere. And in fact .

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, what are the .

COHEN: . it is easier to turn the profits abroad.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SLAUGTHER: But once they`ve earned those profits abroad, they want to
bring them back here, no taxation (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s true. And they want to park, and I`m sure.

SLAUGTHER: But we are still the biggest market in the world and we
would be foolish again .

SCHULTZ: Why this .

SLAUGTHER: . to give away the jobs that we have in our future.

SCHULTZ: Congresswoman, why the secrecy? Why the secrecy? Why is
this by in close room? Why do consultants know more about this in
Congress?

SLAUGTHER: Of course, they do. And I think when you pointed out that
there`s not a lot of talk about it (inaudible) for doing this. I don`t
know if any other commentators who are really concentrating on this,
there`s no talk about it because nobody knows about it.

Now, I`m going to get to go up next week to some secret spot and look
and see what they`re doing about the world trade in Vietnam. As far as I
know, that`s all I care to look at. It makes no sense. That`s one of the
reason we don`t want fast-track.

SCHULTZ: Am I wrong? Am I wrong to assume?

SLAUGTHER: We want to make sure the Congress still has a chance to
say something?

SCHULTZ: All right. Am I wrong to assume that this constitutionalist
over in the Tea Party who are concerned about sovereignty, were they on
this?

SLAUGTHER: I barely know where they are .

COHEN: I think you`ll see .

SLAUGTHER: . to be honest .

COHEN: I think you`ll see a number them join in. And as you said,
it`s a weird coalition for all of us. But frankly, for American workers
and for those who care about the world environment .

SLAUGHTER: I`ll take it.

COHEN: . we don`t have a choice. We`ll take whatever it takes to
stop this and to change it. We want the President to have a trade
promotion authority, fast-track, that makes sense for the environment, make
sense for food safety .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

COHEN: . make sense for jobs. It`s not too late, Ed, and I think if
you continue to bring this out, we can get some momentum behind this issue.

SCHULTZ: Well, while they were talking about the budget and
ObamaCare, and now, immigration. But this, as Alan Grayson says, "Is a
punch in the face to the middleclass." And that that ...

SLAUGHTER: Well, I want ...

COHEN: ... do you agree with that, Congresswoman?

SLAUGHTER: Absolutely. And I was not elected to send American job
somewhere else.

SCHULTZ: Well-put. Congresswoman Louise Slaughter, Larry Cohen in
CWA, great to have both of you. I will not get off the story. I`ve done
the story once or twice before on this program but there will be new
developments.

What we need to do is give this as much exposure as we -- I can from
middleclass Americans who were going to be affected, so maybe the President
will come out and hold a press conference or at least send his consultants
out, whoever is counseling him on this, and explain to the American people.
Just give me the upside. Just give me the upside.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook.
By the way, I really want to be wrong on this last story.

Coming up (inaudible) makes an off color comment about Breast Cancer
Awareness.

Plus, J.P. Morgan has been slapped with a $13 billion fine and
conservatives are crying foul. Actually, they ought to be happy that
nobody is in jail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders. Social media action on this
television show, this is where you can connect with us, Facebook, Twitter,
and of course, ed.msnbc.com. And we do take story ideas join the team.
And this is where you can find me on the radio, SiriusXM, channel 127,
Monday through Friday, noon to 3 p.m. The Ed Show social media nation has
decided and we are reporting.

Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Mondays, we wear pink.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, Caller Commentary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The certification (ph) and everything is taking
place. I don`t use any question. You know what? Put the NFL in pink for
a month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Otherwise, I`m a middle line backer in NFL. If I
can wear pink, anybody can wear pink buddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rush Limbaugh thinks pink does more than from
breast cancer awareness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People in the National Football League think about
pink as not a color but a life saving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, the modern era feminism, that`s what it
is. It`s a critique against masculinity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Real men wear pink.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I want my pink side back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, Devil`s Reject.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meet Rick Santorum, the movie executive.

RICK SANTORUM, MOVIE EXECUTIVE: Murphy was saying, you know,
(inaudible) in terms of culture warrior. The devil for a long, long time
is had these screens for his playground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick Santorum wants to take back the silver screen
from the dark lord.

SANTORUM: Who tells the stories? For a hundred years ago, it was the
church.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he says millions of donor dollar are coming in
from those willing to engage in this culture fight.

SONTORUM: We just want to thank you in advance for everything that
you`re going to do to help in making this a successful venture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, a fine mess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: J.P. Morgan Chase, the country`s largest bank, has
agreed to pay a $13 billion fine over mortgage practices that led to the
financial crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: J.P. Morgan`s $13 billion settlement isn`t sitting
well with the right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecution or persecutions. But that was track
down on JPM, Jamie Dimon shakedown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he says, "The Wall Street Journal."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s like a bunch of piranha just gnawing away the
big dead (inaudible) here. We`re getting killed at this bank.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is payback, political payback for Jamie
Dimon.

ED BUTOWSKY: CHAPWOOD CAPITAL INVESTMENT PARTY: A lot of people say
it`s politically motivated. I don`t know how else you can, you know,
really dissect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now, David Cay Johnston, Pulitzer Prize winner
journalist and tax specialist. David Cay, great to have with you us
tonight.

Did they buy their way out of prosecution? I mean it seems rather
strange that a company would step forward and say, "You know what? All
right. We`ll pay up $13 billion because we`re really good guys on Wall
Street." What do you think this is all about?

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, JOURNALIST: I think they got a really sweet deal
here. Most of this is money they would probably end up having to spend
anyway to work things out with their customers who`ve been cheated.

And they may yet to deduct a great deal of this. So the real cost of
this, maybe less than $10 billion, and that`s about what J.P. Morgan spends
per year on dividends to its investors.

SCHULTZ: And, of course, this money doesn`t do anything with the
people affected by the J.P. Morgan mortgage practices, does it?

JOHNSTON: Well, someone is supposed to provide some remediation,
that`s why it`ll be tax deductible. But compared to the damage that
they`ve done, you know, damages like this, penalty is down here.

SCHULTZ: Well, we did lose $24 billion on the shutdown so I don`t
know who`s doing the math on this deal. I don`t know how the justice --
well, the Justice Department, they`re the ones who came out and came up
with a number. This is a negotiated number. It is unprecedented. But
what does it mean?

Does this mean that Wall Street is going to just say, "You know what?
We`re going to do what we`re gong to do, and we`ll pay the fines when the
time comes."

JOHNSTON: Yeah, it`s a little more than a traffic ticket. But it is
not really dealing with what was calculated, deliberate, planned,
profitable, cheating, criminal activity. We should be seeing criminal
indictments.

Unfortunately, Eric Holder`s position is, "Oh, we`ve gone after people
because they indicted some minor guy in Tampa, Florida and a few other
places and not going after the big banks that knowingly engage in fraud as
thoroughly document by the financial crisis in (inaudible)."

SCHULTZ: So they get off easy? That`s your take on it. I believe it
as well.

JOHNSTON: Oh, yeah.

SCHULTZ: The good news is, for them, nobody is going to jail. And of
course, the conservatives are crying foul, saying that this is
unprecedented. It`s never happened before.

So this now is .

JOHNSTON: Well, you know, we`re (inaudible) seemed to be screaming in
favor of tough law and order for everybody except the big bankers. Isn`t
that kind of amazing? This is recognizing the power -- the rule of power
rather than the rule of law.

SCHULTZ: No doubt. Now, the country gained 148,000 jobs in
September.

JOHNSTON: Right.

SCHULTZ: Now, we have had a 43 straight months of private job growth.
It just seems that this economy is ready to breakout. It just needs a
little bit more help.

JOHNSTON: Right.

SCHULTZ: Is that a bridge too far?

JOHNSTON: No, not at all. We would -- we are not back to the
employment to population ratio before the recession because the right has
restricted government spending and is not willing to engage in investments
that will grow the economy.

At the current rate, it`s going to take us, I calculate, another 13
years to get back to where we should be if we hadn`t had the recession.
That`s way too long. And the people standing in the way of this, they`re
the very people who are arguing that, "Oh, to make a bank, face up and be
penalized in anyway for awful criminal conduct." That`s outrageous.

SCHULTZ: What is your forecast for October? Now, we`ve been through
the shutdown, we`ve had a hell of a financial battle in this country about
whether we`re going to pay our bills or not. What do you think that`s
going to do in the job market? What`s your anticipation at the end of the
month as to what kind of numbers we might see?

JOHNSTON: Well, I think, Ed, that the likelihood this growth will be
a lot less than we`ve seen in the months before the shutdown, simply
because of the noise (ph). But remember, the federal workers are going to
get paid even (inaudible) shows how really stupid the shutdown was, but
there`ll be delays and things.

And it`s done some damage to business. A lot -- I mean a lot of
business leaders in Utah, for example, who`ve gone and complained to Mike
Lee, the Tea Party Senator, because they need the federal government
services to run their businesses well. So, I don`t think we`ll see robust
numbers. I don`t have any idea and exact numbers.

But the solution to this is available, and that is public investment
that grows the economy. And remember, interest rates are lowest in 700
years, so ignore this people who tell you hyper inflation and destruction
is just around the corner.

SCHULTZ: David Cay Johnston, always great to have you on the Ed Show.
Thanks so much. Appreciate your time.

JOHNSTON: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, Mr. Academic Dishonesty. Sean Hannity gets
called o his lies plus only low-rated conservative radio will air the
garbage Dick Cheney`s viewing as of late. But next, I`m taking your
questions. Ask Ed Live is just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: All right, Ask Ed Live, every night, Monday to Friday.
Bottom on the hour, this is when we do it, it`s your questions. Tonight,
Ask Ed Live, our first question comes from Judson Klein. He says, what do
you think privatizing the Big 3 would do to the price tags on these for
average Americans?

Through the roof, my friend. The word "Privatization", there`s
another word slash profit. That`s what privatization is all about. Nobody
wants to privatize something unless they see they can make a profit. Now,
with the Big 3, you`re talking about Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security,
this country has decided many, many times through elections that they are
done for the greater good not to be privatized. We`ve decided that over
and over again

Our next question is from Nikki. And, she wants to know, are
republicans programmed to go on TV to spew lies about ObamaCare? No,
they`re not robots, are they? Look, the centerpiece of the Republican
Party right now and the radicals on the right is to take this down. They
believe that this is the road to number four. They believe that it`s not
Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, but then there`s going to be ObamaCare
which is going to eventually evolve into Universal Healthcare which by the
way most Americans do want.

So to answer your question, they are going to go and spew any kind of
lie they possibly can. You know, guys like Hannity, who will talk more
about it in a moment. Stick around, Rapid Response Panel coming up.

UNIEDINTIFIED FEMALE: I`m (inaudible) with your CNBC Market Wrap.
The Dow closing up by 61 points, the S&P gaining 7, and the NASDAQ climbing
by 14. The consumer sentiments fell in October to its lowest level in 10
months driven down by the government shutdown, orders of durable goods rose
3.7 percent in September. Thanks to a certain (ph) demand for commercial
aircraft. And shares of Amazon hitting an old time high after the online
retailer (ph) reported third quarter sales increased by 24 percent. And
that is it from CNBC, First in Business Worldwide. Have a great weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Thanks for watching tonight, good to have you with us. Sean
Hannity is at odds with consumer reports. I`ll start out by asking you
this question, who do you trust, consumer reports or Sean Hannity? Here`s
what happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, THE SEAN HANNITY SHOW HOST: Consumer reports, Anne,
they`re telling people stay away from the website.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Really? Well, this is the problem. Consumer reports never
told Americans to stay away from the website for good as Hannity implied.
Hannity has seen cherry, picked a few words from a sentence to fit his
message. I should point out that the full quote reads, "If all this is too
much for you to absorb, follow our previous advice: Stay away from
HealthCare.gov for at least another month if you can." The kicker is
Hannity went on the air with his lie hours after consumer reports had
already issued a statement calling out pundits in the media for completely
misrepresenting their position.

Now, of course, you know, we see this all the time with Fox News. I
mean, when the facts aren`t in their favor, Fox completely distorts them or
runs stuff out just to fit their own agenda.

Sean Hannity spews lies. That`s really nothing new. But this really
takes it to a different level. His ignorance and disregard for public
interest could actually prevent people from enrolling and potentially life
saving programs which of course is ObamaCare.

Joining me now Rapid Response Panel Occupy Wall Street Protester
Jessie Lagreca with us tonight, also Stephanie Miller, hosting the
Stephanie Miller Radio Show, and Mike Papantonio, host of the Ring of Fire
Radio Show. Mike, you first tonight, I mean, they are resorting to
constant lies cherry picking words from even organizations like consumer
reports, how desperate are they?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, HOST, "RING OF FIRE": It is desperate to create
drama especially Sean Hannity when you don`t have substance when your
ratings are tanking, you create as much drama as possible no matter how
outrageous your statements are. You start playing to the Honey Boo-Boo
crowd, the lowest hanging fruit available. Even Robert Ailes, Ed, has
figured out that the "Storage Wars" has higher ratings than Sean Hannity.
So somebody`s advising him you`ve got to say this crazy this stuff, you
have to be up front on things like that.

Look, his ratings have dropped 35 percent throughout the year, his
post O`Reilly position, O`Reilly goes on the air has a huge market. He
goes on the air and loses 50 percent of the O`Reilly audience almost
immediately. So he`s in trouble and we`re going to see more crazy drama
out of Sean Hannity as this year progresses.

SCHULTZ: Stephanie, what effect do you think this has had on
consumers? I mean, it is a constant barrage of anti healthcare. I mean,
when I was overseas, people were asking me what is it about the media in
your country that`s against healthcare? And of course at the pinnacle of
it all is of course Hannity and his minions over there who just flat out
line twist off like this. With your audience, has it had an effect?

STEPHANIE MILLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I for one, I`m shocked,
shocked that there is dishonesty going on, on Fox News. They use sweet
little lamb, this must be brand new information for you, Ed, I understand.
But, you know, you`re absolutely right. It is hurting people, you know.
That`s what`s sad, Ed, they`re trying to deliberately scare people away
from the exchanges and as the Kentucky Governor said, "You don`t have to
like me or Obama. Go see what you can do for you and your family."

So, Sean Hannity is doing disservice to real people that need this,
Ed. And those couples he had in his show that turned out to be a complete
lie. It was the same thing. Those couples could have done much better for
themselves and their families if they weren`t scared off of the website by
Sean Hannity.

SCHULTZ: Hannity`s manipulation went even further this week. He
called in to the ObamaCare hotline on his radio show, grilled the employee
who answered, and the employee was subsequently fired.

Now, this is a pretty crafty move on his part. Hannity is now trying
to cash whip the public by saying he`s such a good guy and really cares
about people. He is offering to pay the woman the salary that she lost and
to help her find a job on his website.

Jessie, do people buy this garbage? I mean, clearly, this must be the
first person he`s ever been concerned about getting a job all of a sudden,
trying to wipe up his mess after stating lies on the air.

JESSE LAGRECA, OCCUPY WALL STREET PROTESTER: I think it`s hilarious
that these guys constantly accuse ObamaCare of being a job killer. And
then there are lies about ObamaCare actually kills someone`s job. And I
only wish there was some way we can make every millionaire conservative
caused American a job have to pay that person`s yearly salary out of their
own pocket.

Listen, I`ve personally save thousand of dollars on ObamaCare because
preexisting condition with one of those preexisting that -- the existing
conditions that used have not be covered was childbirth. So, I am personal
ObamaCare success story and the more people that have those success
stories, the more that the (inaudible) brigade just falls upon on its own.
Mike Papantonio, the conservative are not going to give up. We`ve got
budget negotiations coming up. They`re going to want a piece of the
healthcare law, what`s ahead for us?

PAPANTONIO: Well, I think as the budget negotiations go forward
unfortunately have the democrats, they`re willing to give up too much
almost right at the block, if you take and look at Chain CPI, democrats are
all but saying, yeah, we`re going to go along with that.

So you`re not going to see a fight on something like social security
because, the republicans feel like they`ve already won. You`re got to see
the fight on -- you`re going to see the fight on this like Medicare. But,
you know, Ed, this is a time for the democrats to be the party that they
can be and say, "No, you may not cut government anymore, we stand for
something that`s different from Republicans compromises over, it`s a time
when they must draw that line in the sand. We`re going to see in January
and February whether they have the courage to do that, if they don`t,
they`re going to have a real ugly 2014 I can promise you that.

SCHULTZ: Stephanie, if the democrats were to serve up a little bit of
ObamaCare make some adjustments in negotiations, doesn`t that lend
credibility to a network that is lying about health care in America?

MILLER: I think so Ed. As everybody has said, you know, Medicare, it
took two years to get it up and running smoothly if we have another party
in this country that actually cared about the American people, not just
political points. We can see already Ed that the states that did not setup
the exchanges are the ones that it`s not working well.

So, if we could all get together and that, you know, along with it --
the president always said, we open ideas, let`s make tweaks, let`s make it
better but it is the law, and it`s here to stay, and I agree with Mike, we
got to stand our ground, we just had a huge political win by standing
together.

SCHULTZ: What it`s mean for 2014, Jessie?

LAGRECA: Well, the budget negotiations are aligned in the sand (ph)
for a lot of people. You know, there`s a radio party that wants to cut the
Social Security and Medicare, it`s called the Republican Party. If the
democrats adopt that same position, it ruins any reason to vote for them.
So working class people in America want these programs to be defended
(inaudible) nail. And if the democrats are foolish enough to chase the
republican rabbit down the hole then they`re going to burn right along with
them.

I think the smartest thing to do would be to invest in America. We
can`t fix the economy by just cutting it a thousand times. We have to
actually build something. And as far as I`m concerned, there`s only one
party that`s interested in doing for that, and there are smart, they`re
going to stick to what they stand for.

SCHULTZ: There`s no doubt about that. Now, Stephanie, again, on
healthcare and (inaudible), how hard is it? Do you think people in this
country are susceptible to not believing that ObamaCare is going to be
good? How good a job have they done in your opinion of gumming (ph) things
up?

MILLER: Well, they`ve done a pretty good job, Ed. But, you know, the
one thing that I think is hilarious is since the website launched and it`s
a one story about what a disaster it is, the approval rating for ObamaCare
has only gone up.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

MILLER: And I think as more and more people are seeing what is it
actually is and it`s helping real people, that`s only -- it`s only going to
get worst for them, I mean this is their last, you know, try, their last
desperate try to get people to scare them away from it so that it doesn`t
work.

SCHULTZ: Mike, are you confident they`re going to fix it?

PAPANTONIO: I think it`s going to be fine, 2.5 million young adults
get healthcare, 40,000 Americans of preexisting condition get coverage.
Those are great talking points and it`s up to the rank in file democrats to
be out there talking about that and helping the president educate the
public about what this is about.

SCHULTZ: All right.

PAPANTANIO: 350 new community health centers in American already
because of it.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, Stephanie Miller, Jessie Lagreca, great to
have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

MILLER: Thanks Ed.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, lock, loaded, and hunting (ph) provokes in Iowa.
Candidate Ted Cruz takes aim in Iowa. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, Foolish Heart (ph), Dick Cheney.
Cheney`s book to resent (ph) to a new low, low-rated radio that is to be
exact. The former VP drop by Hugh Hewitt`s radio show to slam how
President Obama handled Osama bin Laden.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

HUGH HEWITT, HUGH HEWITT`S RADIO SHOW HOST: Bin laden was killed,
would you have advice the president to allow the victory dance that
occurred in the operational details to come out that indeed came out?

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: By going public the way they did,
they lost -- I am convinced some opportunities such in a hurry to go out
and announce victory. I am convinced that they probably did not get
maximum advantage out of the Intel that they had captured.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Don`t adjust your television sets, you heard the Dickster
correctly. Dick Cheney has the audacity to call President Obama`s
announcement of the death of Osama bin Laden premature. Let`s remind him
how his administration handled Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, JR., FORMER PRESIDENT: My fellow Americans, major
combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United
States and our allies have prevailed.

CHENEY: I think they are not in the last throws of (inaudible) and
insurgency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Really? President Obama, you see, announced the victory
because it was a reality. Cheney never knew victory under the Bush
administration, only deception. If Dick Cheney thinks we will take
hypocrisy over history, he can keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Now for the story for the folks who take a shower after
work. Canadian Senator Ted Cruz, he is heading to Northwest Iowa on
Saturday morning to go (inaudible) and hunting (ph) with Congressman Steve
King. King (inaudible) has become a must stop for presidential hopefuls,
Rick Perry and Rick Santorum with (inaudible) with the congressman before
the 2012 caucuses. It seems that on the path to the White house every
politician aims to hit the mark.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m a lifetime member of the NRA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve got a big game (inaudible). I made it very
clear I`ve always been, if you will, a rodent and rabbit hunter, all right?
Small environments if you will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I`m a Catholic deer hunter. I am happy to be
clinging to my guns and my religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It`s the must have photo of. Actually on both sides of
aisle from Sarah Palin to John Kerry, and even the president himself, then
of course their shooter. Vice President Dick Cheney hunting escapades are
well documented.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vice president Dick Cheney has accidentally shot
and injured a friend with whom he was hunting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bird shot fired from the Vice President`s weapon
apparently wounded a fellow hunter. (Inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Why is it? It just seems that everybody who runs for
president on both sides of the aisle has to prove that they just love to
hunt. Well now, it`s Senator Ted Cruz`s turn in Iowa. Chuck Rocha,
democratic strategist joins me tonight. Chuck, is this just what people
got to have just a smidgen of that you just have to do this to appease
people whether you hunt for a recreation or not?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, the problem is a lot of
these guys went to some really nice schools. They`ve got the best
education and they kind of find it hard to relate with the working class
Americans. So they think if they grab their shotgun, they run off to Iowa,
they go see Mr. Steve King and they shoot some birds, it will make them
look like everybody else and forget that majority of them shutdown our
government, shift our jobs overseas. But they can say, "Hey. I love to
hunt and I love to go out here and be with you good guys."

SCHULTZ: Yes. It`s kind of like, "You kind of want to have a beer
with that guy don`t you?" That mentality. It`s like, "Oh, he must be a
good guy. That kid has a shotgun and he`s going out feds and I`m -- it is
total photo up." So let me be rather cynical here, when is Hillary Clinton
going to go hunting? When that`s program going to show up?

ROCHA: Look, I`m not going to put anything pass what Hillary may do.
I`m sure that she go out and go hunt but there`s not been one presidential
candidate that I can recall in my 20 years who hasn`t done or had the photo
up so they could put that one piece of man (ph) out to say that. The one
piece I would say about Mr. King though, if you want to guaranty that you
don`t get the Latino vote, you need to go bird hunting with Steve King who
said Latinos have cabs (ph) as size of (inaudible) because we`re smuggling
drugs.

SCHULTZ: So there`s a big downside to who you`re hanging out with to
doing this kind of stuff, no doubt?

ROCHA: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: So, where does this leave Ted Cruz? I mean, he`s basically
playing to the base. I don`t know if the guy peasant hunts a lot but it
just seems ironic that just about everybody who`s running for offices got
to run to Iowa with a shotgun.

ROCHA: Well, they want you to forget. They want you to forget the
truth. They want you to forget about the shutdown so they put out lies.
They put out lies about who they are and what they do. And it`s kind of
like an old saying in Texas, "If you lie long enough about having a horse,
eventually somebody will buy you a saddle." And these guys are hoping that
somebody buys them a saddle and they can just be cast as regular Americans
out here hunting in Iowa.

SCHULTZ: Now, do you think Ted Cruz actually has a chance of winning
the nomination? Now, you know, it`s out there on the blogs. It`s --
people are somewhat afraid of this guy. He is being compared from time to
time to McCarthy. What kind of chance does this guy really have?
Obviously, he wouldn`t be going hunting with a congressman that he doesn`t
even know if he wasn`t thinking about trying to do something in 2016.

ROCHA: I`ve run lots of elections in Iowa and been part of caucus
system. One good thing about him in going to Iowa is the right of the
right of the right is actually who goes in caucuses in Iowa. And it`s
going to springboard for lots of ultra conservatives like Michele Bachmann
and other people like that, ex-governor of Arkansas. You only have the
extreme round (ph) of the party that can catapult a person into the field
and then anything could happen in primary -- in a presidential primary.
And we learned a lot from the last election that when you see these
primaries highlighting and mobilizing the most conservative amongst us,
anything could happen with Ted Cruz.

SCHULTZ: There is no doubt about that. I mean, look, he`s going to
raise the money. There`s no question about it. But this shows that he is
definitely planting some seeds. Now, the question here is, what else is he
going to do in Iowa? Is he just peasant hunting, or is he going to end up
going to a number of different counties so he can say, like Rick Santorum,
"I`ve been to every county in Iowa." This is one where it (ph) starts.

ROCHA: I think he`s just laying the ground work and think he`ll be
out there probably talking with lots of other people. There`s only a small
amount of people and power brokers in Iowa, whether you`re a republican or
democrat, who control those caucuses. So I think he`ll be out there
working it hard. And let me just say this today, Ted Cruz could be the
best thing that ever happened to democrats if he get the nomination.

SCHULTZ: Amen to that. Chuck Rocha, always good to have you on the
program. Appreciate it.

ROCHA: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Thanks so much. And that is the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening,
Rev.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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