updated 1/6/2014 11:21:59 AM ET 2014-01-06T16:21:59

THE ED SHOW
December 17, 2013

Guests: Barbara Boxer, Sherrod Brown, David Corn, Dr. Corey Hebert, Bob Shrum


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, buddy, I`m Chris. Treat me like a fox.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks
for watching. We`ll try it again. Right there. I`ll look you right in
the eye tonight and tell you that I support workers in every workplace in
America when it comes to fair share, collective bargaining and the boat.
Are we crystal clear on that?

You know, there`s a big calculation going on right now about trust. Can
you trust what people tell you? I want you to come to this program every
night, 5 o`clock Eastern Time trusting what Ed says. It`s got news. It`s
got facts. It`s got commentary opinion. I want you to trust.

I`ll look you right in the eye. Lots of trusting going on these days, lots
of calculation going on as well. Calculation as to whether we can trust
this guy, right here. Because what he has told you is that he`ll look at
the unemployment benefits in 2014 and you have to ask the question, "Is
there a ledger that we can go by? Something that has been built-up over
time that we should trust in the Republicans? Have there been some things
with me that I have said and done over time that has built-up a ledger that
you can trust?"

Earlier today, the Senate voted 67 to 33 to advance the so-called
Bipartisan. Bipartisan. Gosh, they love that word, budget deal. The
Senate will hold a final vote tomorrow afternoon and it`s probably going to
pass. Every single Democrat in the Senate voted to advance this bill
today, voted for closure, end of debate, let`s go make it real tomorrow.

This means that every Democrat in the Senate voted against 1.3 million
unemployed Americans. That hurts. How could the Democrats have done that?
Well, there must have been something really good in this bill and there`s a
lot of political calculation going on right now that they`ll be able to
overcome this. That they`ll be able to come back and fight for another day
because on December 28th, these Americans will stop receiving their
unemployment benefits.

This is real stuff, folks. This means that there`s not going to be any
money coming in the door, buy the food. What do the Republicans want these
1.3 million people to do? What`s their advice? A new study released this
week shows that the ripple effects could be pretty doggone devastating.

According to the National Unemployment Insurance Law Project, unemployment
benefits kept 1.7 million people out of poverty in 2012. Now, that`s a
fact, OK? There`s no calculation and whatsoever. That is a fact. It is a
hard number that unemployment benefits do good things for Americans. The
question is can we find the money to continue to do it? Oh, yeah, we can
find the money, there`s no doubt about that.

This number includes of the 1.7 million, 446,000 children. What do the
Republicans want those 446,000 children to do? Get into the slave labor
market, go work for damn near nothing, take anything, beg on the street?
Clearly, these numbers aren`t hitting home with some members of Congress
because they`re making a calculation that they`re going to be able to go
back and they`re going to be able to fight for another day and they`ll be
able to turn this around and deliver the mail.

Look at my eyes. Do you trust them? Do you trust Boehner? The Democrats
are trusting the -- think about that, the Democrats are trusting
Republicans to come back in the New Year and vote on an unemployment
extension. What kind of ledger are we talking about? Senate Majority
Leader Harry Reid said, "Unemployment will be the Senate`s first order of
business in the New Year."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: And that will be the first item
we bring -- come to when we come back. We have a number of Republicans who
have stated publicly including the Senator from Nevada and other Senator
from Nevada that they hear Republican that will support an extension of
unemployment benefits unpaid for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It sounds good. But you know what? There`s an old saying in
business, "You can`t eat PR. You go to show me the money." But it`s the
first thing they`re going to do and that makes people feel good except for
the 1.3 million people that aren`t going to see the money on December 28th.

I`m sure John Boehner will approve Reid`s retroactive extension right after
the 48th vote to repeal ObamaCare.

Give me a break. There`s no major to trust this guy right here. He puts
the hammer down every time he can. Has he helped out on the jobs package?
No. Has be obstructed time and time again? Yes. Has he blamed the
president for his economic plan? Yes, even though we`ve had what? I don`t
know, 46, 47 months of private sector job growth. That`s not good enough.
Remember they still want the guy to fail. But we`re going to trust these
people

Democrats are going to trust John Boehner and the Republicans to do the
right thing for the unemployed in this country.

These are the same people who voted to repeal ObamaCare over 40 times.
These are the same people who shutdown the government, costing our economy
$25 billion. These are the same people who voted 144 of them to keep the
government shut down. The same people who have no problem holding our
nation hostage when it comes to the debt limit.

And more for the ledger, the same people who voted to cut food stamps by
$40 billion over the next 10 years. The same people who have blocked every
single jobs bill the Democrats have brought forward. And the list goes on
and on and on.

I don`t even have time to get to all the nominees that they don`t want
around. And after this list, it`s unbelievable that the Democrats can step
up and have trust for the Republicans to do the right thing, because it`s
going to be a new year. They`re going to be a different crowd, those
Republicans.

Meanwhile, there is some good news. I want to give credit to the 32 House
Democrats who voted against the budget.

To me, that`s the tough vote. And it was a tough vote for the Democrats.
But I believe it was the morally corrupt vote considering there`s no ledger
dealing with Boehner.

These Democrats know that there is no way Republicans are going to extend
unemployment benefits in 2014. That hurts to say that.

So, there`s a calculation being made, I think that the Democrats will get
through this politically and they`ll figure something out. They`ll go out
and they`re going to campaign hard and they`re going to make the folks
really feel bad about the Republicans. But as I said, you can`t eat PR.
It takes money to buy whiskey.

You know, it could be, because they -- hear this kind of garbage from the
Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE WOMACK (R), ARKANSAS: I`m a big believer in giving a hand up to
people that are down and out and need something. That needs temporary
assistance. We have created such dependency in a lot of these government
programs that it`s more convenient and more lucrative for you not to work
and to receive these benefits.

REP. BILL JACKSON (R), OHIO: There are employers up and down the river in
Ohio that say, "I can`t find workers because the kind of job that we need
them to do. I can`t find people that can pass the drug test." And those
people will come in and they will find out they got to take a drug test and
they`ll even leave and won`t take the drug test. But they`ll use that
employer sign-off to go back and stay on unemployment. They`ll use their
unemployment checks for buying their drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: There is no way you can trust Republicans to come back and do the
right thing when it comes to the unemployed. There is nothing in it for
them.

The only reason Republicans typically vote for unemployment benefits is
because it`s usually connected to defend spending.

So, what kind of signals has this guy sent? Some smug signals? To make us
all believe that something is going to be different.

(inaudible) grudge those who voted for the budget. I just don`t understand
it. I don`t understand where this trust all of a sudden came for John
Boehner. I think the American people are willing to fight for every
American. I think that there is an angst out there across the country
where the American people get. They get income and equality. And they get
the unemployed. And they get 7 percent. And they get the fact these guys
have done nothing when it comes to jobs.

They are the problem. They`re not the solution. But we`re going to trust
them. We got a deal. Little too much of an appetite for that right now as
I see it.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Do you trust Republicans to help the unemployed in the New
Year?" Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622. You can always leave a
comment on our blog at ed.msnbc.com and we`ll bring you the results later
on in the show.

For more on this, let me bring in Senator Barbara Boxer of California.
Senator, great to have you with us tonight.

SEN. BARBARA BOXER, D-CALIFORNIA: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: If we know that this is going to be a fight for the unemployed
and there will be more in June, another 1.6 million people. And if we know
this is going to be a fight, why not just have the fight right now?

BOXER: Well, that`s a great question and it`s something that we did
consider. And I certainly could take your position but I don`t because of
this reason. This deal left out something very important which was taken
care of the unemployed with a total commitment by Harry to make this front
and center when we get back.

I don`t trust the Republicans. I do trust the American people. I think
their going to weigh in on that issue when we get back. And I think
they`re going to weigh in on the minimum wage, income and equality, and a
lot of the issues that you have been highlighting.

But one of the things that we did do in this deal is we added tens of
billions of dollars back into the spending category. That is a fact, over
$60 billion over the next two years. And we gave certainty that we`re not
going to lurch from government shutdown to government shutdown to
government shutdown for two years. Certainly, it was best Patty Murray
could do. And I know how hard she worked night and day.

So, you know, we have to recognize the fact that elections do have
consequences. We need to have Nancy Pelosi be the speaker of the House, we
need grown-ups running the House.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BOXER: There`s a lot of power over there. You know, they -- it`s not like
the Senate where the minority has a lot of rights and who runs that House
is critical. So elections have consequences. I don`t trust the
Republicans to do the right thing but I think we can engage the American
people on this and immigration rights, minimum wage and all the things we
can do.

SCHULTZ: So it sounds like, Senator, the game plan is for the Democrats to
come back after the New Year and you`re counting on the American people to
be vocal .

BOXER: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: . to make phone calls, to pressure the Republicans. And that`s
the only remedy right now? That is the remedy right now to bring the
Republicans to the table as honest brokers to do something for the
unemployed.

BOXER: Well, they`re going to be forced to deal with this because we are
bringing it up. And we`re going to tell the story that you have been
telling. Like I had, you know 222,000 of my people in California impacted
by this out of the 1.3 million. And one of them, a gentleman, who wrote to
me and said, I -- he worked at a bank and he lost his job. And he says he
-- if this continues if he doesn`t get his extension, he thinks he`s going
to have to live in his car.

This is America. This can`t happen. And I do think once we take care of a
little certainty here that we can focus on everything else and that`s why I
am so upset that Paul Ryan and now Mitch McConnell say they`re going to
play hostage taking .

SCHULTZ: Well, there you go.

BOXER: . with the debt ceiling. I mean I .

SCHULTZ: And .

BOXER: . understand that.

SCHULTZ: Well, I`ll tell you what. You had the deal last week with
Senator Murray and Budget Chairman Ryan. They all said good things, we all
understand it, you`re exactly right, you point out some very positive
things in this budget. But then, it supposedly trying to be an honest
broker to his own Caucus, Ryan goes out and starts talking about what
they`re looking for to get out of the debt ceiling.

BOXER: Right.

SCHULTZ: I mean this is still the nasty environment of us versus them and
we`re always getting gained by them until we take him right to the
firewall. It`s a hard place to be. I know it`s a hard place to be. And .

BOXER: But we`re going to take him to the firewall. We`re going to put
these issues before the American people and we`re going to win that vote.
We`ve extended unemployment compensation, Ed .

SCHULTZ: I want your confidence.

BOXER: . many, many, many, many times.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

BOXER: I have to go back and check. It`s just .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BOXER: . many times we`ve extended it under Republican Presidents and
Democratic Presidents. And I think we`re going to get it done .

SCHULTZ: Yes.

BOXER: . because it`s an overwhelming story to tell and we`re going to
bring the faces right to the American people.

SCHULTZ: I want to play this clip, Senator.

BOXER: Yes. Yes.

SCHULTZ: I want to play this clip of minority leader Mitch McConnel today
making threats about the death ceiling. Here it is.

BOXER: Okay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: I doubt if the House or for that
matter the Senate is willing to give the president a clean debt ceiling
increase every time the president ask us to raise the debt ceiling is a
good time to go try to achieve something important for the country. The
debt ceiling legislation is a time that brings us all together and gets the
president`s attention which where this president in particular when it
comes to reducing spending have been a bit of a challenge. So it`s a long
way of saying I can`t imagine it being done clean .

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Can`t imagine it being done clean.

BOXER: Well, he is in for a big shock because the fact is you don`t get
paid a ransom for doing your job, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BOXER: And our job is to pay the bills. And President Obama is very firm
on this. We`re very firm on this. We know they threatened to default
twice already.

The first time, it cost us $19 billion, the second time of cost the
economy, $24 billion. It`s another way to shut down the government. It
gives angst to the markets. The market in 2011 went down 2,000 points.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BOXER: It`s the whole business communities` open arms. So, I just can`t
imagine why they have done this, other than to take away the pressure we`re
putting on them to extend an unemployment compensation .

SCHULTZ: Sure.

BOXER: . raise the minimum wage fund.

I think the calendar works against them, because I think this debt ceiling
won`t come up maybe to the spring. And we will have time to press on these
issues and we`re going to need your voice really.

SCHULTZ: Well, Senator, you and I have been friends a long time.

BOXER: Yes.

SCHULTZ: I have a lot of respect for you. This is what the debate has to
be.

BOXER: Yes.

SCHULTZ: We got to sort this thing out. I am an advocate for those
meeting the basics in life and having a chance to get back .

BOXER: Of course.

SCHULTZ: .into the economy. And I just think it`s a tough vote but I
think it`s the wrong vote. And I hope you turn around and hold them
hostage on the farm bill. I mean .

BOXER: Yeah. But, Ed, could I just say this?

SCHULTZ: Yes.

BOXER: If you love a No vote then you love Republicans, because the
Republicans voted No in the senate. Only a few voted with us.

So, this thing is not as straight forward as you might spin it, may I say.
But I`m going to show you and prove to you that when we do get back and the
nations re-voted on this, you`re going to see maybe some different outcomes
.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BOXER: . than you`re predicting today.

SCHULTZ: But those Republicans who voted No on this want to cut
everything. They`re motivation is 180 from where your motivation is and
where your heart is and where the Democrats really are on this issue and I
do think .

BOXER: Of course.

SCHULTZ: . the American people get that. Senator, it`s great to have you
with us .

BOXER: Thanks.

SCHULTZ: . on the Ed Show. I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook. We want
to know what you think.

Coming up, more colorful commentary on the Santa raise debate from the
Right Wing media. Plus, Democrats lay out the progressive playbook for
ObamaCare 2014.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders social media in action. This is where
you can find us. We`ll start down here tonight. Ed.msnbc.com,
Twitter.com/Edshow kind of active as of late, and Facebook.com/Edshow. You
can catch me on the radio noon to three Monday through Friday Sirius
Channel 127, Sirius XM. And of course the website wegoted.com tell you all
about the Ed Tour 2014 Fort Lauderdale February 8th we`re going to be
there.

Ed Show social media nation has decided we`re reporting. Here are today`s
Top Trenders voted on by you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s keep it real. Let`s keep it real.

SCHULTZ: The number three trender, Santa Con.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People want to believe the reality is most comfortable
as it (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For all you kids watching at home, Santa just is
white.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t want to live in a word where Santa is black
and one of his reindeers is gay.

SCHULTZ: Civil Rights Expert Neal Boortz.

NEIL BOORTZ, NEIL BOORTZ SHOW HOST: And we got too damn many urban thugs,
yo. You need to have a gun and we need to see some dead thugs littering
the landscape in Atlanta.

SCHULTZ: Adds his color commentary to the Santa race debate.

BOORTZ: Yes, I`m sorry, Santa Claus is white OK, deal with it. I`m going
to scream and complain because Martin Luther King is always portrayed as
black.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell did you just say?

BOORTZ: It just ain`t right.

SCHULTZ: The number two trender, Papa don`t preach.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rush versus the Pope and this is just pure Marxism
coming out of the mouth of the Pope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Pope response, he says the Marxist ideology is
wrong but I have met many Marxism in my life who are good people.

SCHULTZ: Right Wingers continue their attack on Pope Francis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He literally went out to trickle down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a Pope, he`s ripping America. The Pope ripping
capitalism. They are recognizing this guy as man of the year for one
reason. He did a big hit on capitalism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I, as a catholic agree with Rush that the Pope sounds
like he is against capitalism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They named him man of the year simply because he
attacks capitalism and it ticks me off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A very trendy act of leader. So it feels to me to
attack capitalism, pursue that.

SCHULTZ: And today`s Top Trender, repeal and replace.

JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: I want to repeal the law of the land
is that clear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drop my coverage, deny my care, raise my costs.

SCHULTZ: Democrats go on ObamaCare offense for 2014.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Affordable Care Cct is a right up there with
Social Security, Medicare, Affordable Care for all American as a right, not
a privilege.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much of liability do you think this will be for
Democrats who (inaudible) November 2014 midterms?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well I think it can be good for them. I think we`re in
pretty good shape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Democrats stand tall and support of Affordable
Care Act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t let insurance companies do whatever they want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio. Senator, good
to have you with us tonight on the Ed Show.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Good to be back, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Give us an insight what is the ObamaCare offense for 2014.

BROWN: Well the offense is to show and begin to tell stories about people
getting benefits from the Affordable Care Act. Seniors that now say $700
on their prescription drugs, a 25 year old who has -- 23 year old who had
cancer in Cleveland, who has been on their parent`s healthcare plan. The
fact that seniors are getting preventive care without co-pays or
deductibles free screenings, telling stories about individuals. Many of
the hundreds of thousands of Ohioans and Kentuckians and other places who
are going to go on Medicare or going to be in the exchanges or getting
health insurance .

SCHULTZ: Yes.

BROWN: . when they haven`t had it for much of their lives.

SCHULTZ: So the (inaudible) .

BROWN: . well if they`re telling stories and the President needs to talk
about the minimum wage, hasn`t been raised in six years. President needs
to talk about unemployment insurance.

This is social insurance people pay in .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BROWN: . when they`re working, people get assistance when they`re laid
off. That`s what insurance is all about. And the far right may not like
social insurance, they don`t like Medicare, they don`t like Social
Security, they don`t like unemployment insurance. But all of it works for
middle class, and works to get people the opportunity to join the middle
class.

SCHULTZ: Senator, as I view this, in swing States the call by the
Democrats is going to be, "Okay , do I support ObamaCare? Do I take it to
the firewall as a candidate to win a House position, to win a Senate
position where ObamaCare has been embraced how can you not run with it?"

BROWN: Well, I think you do run with it. I think you make it larger than
that. It`s about giving opportunity for people to get health insurance if
they don`t have it. It`s about the fast food workers that (inaudible) in
date in the other day. None of them make more than $9.50 an hour, none of
them have insurance, and only one out of the seven people there knew they
could sign up for health insurance under ObamaCare. It`s telling that
story and the more people like that get insurance and benefit from these
consumer protections and get a wage and increase or get their unemployment
insurance.

The more they tell that story, the more we tell that story .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BROWN: . and the more people that benefit, the better we`re going to do.

SCHULTZ: Isn`t there a danger here though, Senator, for the Democrats that
some would really embrace it, others in the Caucus may not because they
might be coming from a red state or a state or a Republican governor has
not implemented the Medicare opportunity for consumers in their state, you
know, these governors that have rejected it. I mean it`s -- is it going to
be hard for some Democrats to really embrace it and then others not to?

BROWN: Well, perhaps. It`s up to them and I don`t judge my colleagues or
potential colleagues and how they do their politics in their states. But
I`ll just go across from Cincinnati -- stand in Cincinnati, look across the
river to Kentucky .

SCHULTZ: Sure.

BROWN: . governor in that state been in your show before, Ed. That
governor has two of the farthest right Republican members of the Senate
that have done huge -- try to inflict huge damage on ObamaCare. He`s
already signed up tens of thousands of people in Medicaid. He set up the
exchanges. People in Kentucky has stories to tell. That`s one reason
Mitch McConnell has -- is a great chance for him to lose because people in
his state by election they are going to see that these thing he`s tried to
block line down in front of the car to try to block .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BROWN: . it`s working for Kentuckians. And we`re going to see that in
state after state after state. The quicker we feed into that by telling
the stories of how this healthcare law works for a huge (inaudible) for
citizens including helping to stabilize health care prices for people who
have private insurance coverage that they`re keeping as most will, they`re
going to benefit from it too.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BROWN: So that`s going to be increasingly clear. When Medicare was
introduced to 1965, it was very controversial.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BROWN: . and so security came in, it was very controversial.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

BROWN: A year, or two, or three years later, people look back and say,
"Hey. This is working. That`s the way Affordable Care Act is going to
be."

SCHULTZ: Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, good to have you with us on the Ed
Show.

BROWN: Always. Thanks.

SCHULTZ: Appreciate your time. Thank you.

Coming up, Fox News seems to have a new contributor, House Oversight
Committee Chairman Darrell Issa is doing some straight work to destroy
ObamaCare.

Still ahead, Bill O`Reilly needs to practice what he preaches when it comes
to journalistic standards. He lands in Pretenders tonight. I can`t wait.
But next I`m taking your questions live on Ask Ed Live on MSNBC. We`ll be
right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: It`s the season. Welcome back to the Ed Show. I love hearing
from our viewers in our Ask Ed segment tonight.

Our first question comes from Deborah Mary Jackson. She says, "Which
congress member should get a lump of coal from Santa?"

Well, you got a lot of candidates. There`s no question about that. In
fact, I don`t even think there`s enough coal to go around. You go broke on
you`re shipping and delivery charges from North Dakota, because you`d have
to bring all of the coal for these guys.

I would probably give a lump of coal to Mitch McConnell. It`s those
filibusters. It`s all that obstruction. He deserves a lot of it.

Our next question is from Lana Williams, and Lana wants to know, "What will
Santa bring you for Christmas?"

Well, that`s the exciting thing. I don`t know. But I`ll take either
hundred (black) Leather Jetta. Stick around, Rapid Response Panel is next.

MORGAN BRENNAN, CNBC ANCHOR: I`m Morgan Brennan with your CNBC Market
Wrap. The DOW drops 9 points today, the S and P down 5, the NASDAQ also
down 5 points.

Assigned housing market is improving. Home builder`s confidence topped
expectation hitting a four-month high in December.

Consumer prices were unchanged in November, kept in check by cheaper gas
prices.

And holiday travel is expected to reach a record high this year. Triple
Ace says 94.5 million people will travel 50 miles or more to visit friends
and family.

That`s it from CNBC, First in Business Worldwide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. It`s no secret, Congressman Darrell
Issa, California has been waging a permanent taxpayer funded witch hunt of
the Obama administration. I mean this guy, Chairman of the House Oversight
Committee, Issa has tried and failed to manufacture scandals wherever and
whenever he can. There`s Solyndra, there`s Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the
IRS, and now his sights are on ObamaCare.

Issa`s latest fishing expedition was on full display, money at the House
oversight committee hearing in Dallas, Texas titled, "Who are the
navigators?" In reality, navigators are the people who helped others
signed up for ObamaCare and understand the process on what`s going on. But
at this point, it should be cleared Darrell Issa doesn`t live in reality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA CONGRESSMAN: These individuals, these so
called navigators, don`t follow any of the rules that every state (that)
the union has for insurance people. So, the idea that they`re bonded, that
they`re identified, that they`re finger printed, anything that would cause
you to know that they`re not felons and identity (theft) perpetrators
simply hasn`t been done and we saw that in the hearing today. This is
basically just another form of community organizing pay forward to your tax
dollars that ACORN revisited, if you will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: ACORN revisited. That`s right, ACORN revisited. You heard him.
The only similarity between this and ACORN; James O`Keefe and his
questionable conservative activism. That`s right. O`Keefe used undercover
actors as potential enrollees to record navigators in Texas. O`Keefe
released video through Project Veritas in which navigators advised the
actors to withhold the information about income and lie about tobacco use.
You may remember O`Keefe`s ACORN videos were found to be susceptibly
edited. O`Keefe was eventually forced to pay a $100,000 to settle all
lawsuit filed by a former ACORN employee seen in the video.

Sounds like exactly the kind of source Darrell Issa would rely on. On
Sunday, Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius responded
to the hearing and then I`ll bet that the Dallas Morning News Writing,
"What opponents of the new law could not do legislatively at the ballot box
or even by shutting down the federal government, they are now trying to do
through other means." "Monday`s congressional hearing in Dallas is
designed to stifle, intimidate, and impugn the reputation of people who
have been working hard to help their fellow Texans get covered." It`s a
battle going on folks.

Joining me now is our Rapid Response Panel, MSNBC Political Analyst David
Corn and Dr. Corey Hebert of the LSU Health Science Services. Great to
have you with us tonight gentlemen. This is getting real interesting. You
know, David Corn, wherever you need a hunt just take Darrell Issa with you.
You`ve got a (notice) for everything, don`t we?

DAVID CORN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Maybe for snipe hunting.

SCHULTZ: Yeah, there you go. What ground does Darrell Issa have to stand
on right now?

CORN: Well, this just reminds me of that game at the arcade Whack-A-Mole.
They just keep hitting whatever they can take a swing at. First it was
the--they are the not working website. Well that, and you know, is taking
care of itself so they can`t complain much about the website, right? You
know, there was cancellation policies where it turns out a lot of people
who got those notices and now getting better and cheaper care. Not
everyone, but a lot are. So, that`s kind of as the big issue.

So now, they have seemed to have found two navigators out of hundreds and
not thousands who have said things on a tape that may or may not be true.
You know the thing is, in any system that involves hundreds if not
thousands of people working there, you will find people doing something
wrong.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CORN: Either purposefully or not purposefully. But nevertheless...

SCHULTZ: I mean, David doesn`t O`Keefe have kind of change the texture of
all of this?

CORN: Well, yeah I mean he--(listen), no member of congress should base a
congressional committee investigation or charge, or even go on Fox to talk
about what James O`Keefe has done. If they want to--listen, I`ll give
Darrell Issa some credit here, believe it or not. I think that they raise
real concerns. You want to make sure that there are private and security
concerns they`re dealt with. The navigators are well trained and I would
love to see congress backstop and do real oversight on this. But relying
on James O`Keefe is not (competent).

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CORN: Oversight.

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s a (new one) on me. I didn`t know people in the
insurance industry were fingerprinted. That`s a new one on me.

CORN: Yeah. I mean.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Hebert, what -- and tell us about these navigators. Could
the program be implemented without them?

HEBERT: You know, these navigators are essential ground forces and we --
it could really not be done without them. I mean you can go to a foreign
country and don`t have a person that if your tour guide if you want to but
you cannot actually navigate this thing without people on the ground trying
to make it happen.

I mean, let`s be real here. Darrell Issa has much credibility as Kim
Kardashian in mainstream politics in my opinion. So, if he just took all
of that money that he has been spending doing everything else and going
around the country and use that money, he could buy 753 MRIs for the people
that live in the states that don`t accept the Medicaid expansion. That`s
what he needs to talk to his people about.

SCHULTZ: Well. That is interesting. You bring that up. I mean, these
hearings aren`t free. I mean, he complains about federal tax dollars being
spent.

HEBERT: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: He`s traveling circus, he`s causing what? Question mark. By the
way -- you go ahead.

CORN: Now, I was just saying, listen, let`s cut to the big issue here.
They (went to) Texas. Texas has the most number of uninsured Americans in
the whole country.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CORN: They have almost 5 million people uninsured, the most number of
uninsured children. You know, does Darrell Issa (adding) the Texas
Republicans who went on that hearing with them. What do they had to say
about helping those people?

In fact, one of them, I saw--I think it was on function last night said
that the navigators what they`re trying to get people on Medicaid which is
a federal subsidize program. So how dare they do that? I mean it`s just
nuts; these people don`t seem to care...

SCHULTZ: Well.

CORN: .about their neighbors who don`t have insurance.

SCHULTZ: I mean Dr. Hebert, isn`t it rather hard to lie on medical
records?

HEBERT: It`s very hard. It`s very hard. It`s a lot.

SCHULTZ: I mean, when somebody comes into your office and they are a
Medicare patient, Medicaid patient, either one, I mean, the information in
the medical community is pretty tight. Doctors would know if there`s
something (fraudulent) going on, wouldn`t that.

HEBERT: Right and we monitor to that very closely because of Medicaid
fraudulent activity that happens all the time. Look and we have to think
about this. If we punish the entire Republican Party for the comments of a
few Right Wing activist, I mean, there wouldn`t be a Republican Party or
Darrell Issa.

So, we just have to remember that this stuff is tight. The medical
established would have--we worked very hard to keep our security things
tight and this is yet again, once again, something that they`re just trying
to bringing down ObamaCare and once again, this is a law, not a policy.

SCHULTZ: Although David, he refers to it as community organizing.

HEBERT: Exactly. I mean, you know what? I`ll tell you what. There`s
nothing really wrong with organizing a community to make sure that their
community constituents yet Affordable Health Care. I don`t have a problem
with that.

CORN: I mean the bottom line is they do this so that people can get health
care.

HEBERT: Yeah.

CORN: I mean that`s why they`re doing it. They`re not organizing people
to vote or to--or for political parties and activities. It`s like there`re
people out there in the community, they may not have computers. They may
not be comfortable with computers. They may need a little more tension and
a little more help in getting through this and that`s what they`re there
for and this is what Darrell Issa and the others are objecting.

SCHULTZ: I think this should be part of the ObamaCare offense of 2014. I
think that White House sort of rollout some of these navigators and follow
(them with the camera) and show them what kind of day they`re having and
who they`re helping and what they do, and how they got selected.

I mean, I think this is part of the story.

HEBERT: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: Do you know .

HEBERT: That needs to happen. That needs to happen. The story must be
told because it will be fought and fought until people hear the true
stories.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CORN: But the story is going to keep shifting. The narrative is going to
keep shifting because there`s ObamaCare and moves forward and as it seems
to be working better and better, you know, the Republicans are going to get
more and more desperate and what they`re going to attack.

Ands so (Harry Reid`s think) come 2014, this may not be a liability for
them. Perhaps, it might be an asset. He might be right. It might not
just be spent.

SCHULTZ: All right. David Corn, Dr. Corey Hebert, great to have you on
the Ed Show. Thanks so much.

HEBERT: Thank you.

CORN: Thanks Ed.

SCHULTZ: Still ahead, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie could be, he
could be abusing his political power in the burning bridges. Won`t have at
least, at least his good at shutting down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, the want to be Bill O`Reilly.
Everybody knows Fox News wants to eliminate MSNBC. Before they close the
doors on us, O`Reilly wants to take over as program director.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O`REILLY: This is what I think we should have and then I hope Comcast
is listening, Comcast the parent company. Just to make MSNBC an
entertainment network. No, no, no. Take it out of the news realm. You
want to make your money, make you money. You want to be a left wing
network, fine. I don`t have any beef with that. But you`re not a news
network. You`re an advocacy network. There are journalistic standards and
-- but there aren`t at that place. There aren`t any.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well Bill, I`m sure the Comcast executives are sitting on the
edge of their seats waiting for your advice. Sorry big guy, there are no
openings over here. Now, but in the meantime, try developing some of those
journalistic standards at your own network. This is O`Reilly`s master plan
and following his example would be the fastest way of getting shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`REILLY: We`ll, do it live. Do it live. I could downright it and we`ll
do it live. This thing sucks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 5, 4, 3.

O`REILLY: That`s tomorrow and that is it for us today, I`m Bill O`Reilly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: How sad for a boss. Am I live? O`Reilly wants us to believe
that he knows a thing about entertainment or news. He can keep on
pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work. Republican New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is
facing a roadblock in any potential run for president. Christie is being
accused of abusing his political power by causing a massive traffic jam
just a few weeks before he was re-elected as governor of New Jersey.

Back on September 9th in the town of Fort Lee, New Jersey, all but one lane
of the traffic to the George Washington Bridge were abruptly close with no
warning and for no apparent reason. The congestion lasted for a number of
days and nobody had any idea why. The Wall Street Journal reported that
the lane closures had been ordered by one guy, a former Republican mayor
and activist who happened to be an old high school buddy of the Republican
Governor Chris Christie. Christie has said very little about the traffic
problem and even joked when he was asked about his involvement earlier this
month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: I work (the cones) actually. But I`m
not--(on denotes) everybody, I was actually the guy out there. I wasn`t
overalls in the hat. So, I wasn`t -- but I actually was the guy working
the cones out there. You really are not serious with that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, reports now say, the lane closures were Governor Christie`s
retribution against the Mayor of Fort Lee. The mayor is a Democrat who
repeatedly declined to endorse Christie in the governor`s race. Bob Shrum,
Democratic Strategist and Professor NYU joins us tonight.

A rather unusual story, your first analyst on how the governor handles that
answer. I thought pretty clever. Bob, your thoughts.

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, he was clever but his gotten in
more and more trouble as more information has come out. It`s unbelievable
that he was cruising the reelection and they did this.

Look, the hero of Hurricane Sandy could end up looking like a political
hack by running a patronage bloated, crony-ridden, revenge seeking
administration.

Beyond that, we know that Christie is a bully. We`ve seen it. You and I
have talked about it before. He is surrounded by bully boys it turns out.

If he carries that attitude into the primaries in 2016, he`s going to be in
real trouble. Americans tends to elect Presidents who are likable at least
in public. You have to go all the way back to Richard Nixon to find
someone who seemed to come from the dark side.

So maybe before Christie announces for President, he got to take some anger
management classes.

SCHULTZ: Well, in the mix of it all as this story boils, if it turns out
that he was the power behind all of this, that last answer that he gave and
rather clever, is that a denial?

SHRUM: Oh, I think that`s a denial, and I mean he`s left the impression
that he didn`t know about this. But it was actually two people who`ve been
forced to resign now from the port authority of New York and New Jersey who
were very close to him what we`re being very, very well-paid.

The other thing that`s important here is this is only the beginning of the
(vetting) process. We`re going to find out a lot more about this guy,
about his record, about his spending habits when he was U.S. attorney, and
we`re also going to find out if the country is going to find out that
someone who may seemed too moderate to a lot of this Right Wing Republicans
is actually reactionary on a whole range of issues that Americans and the
mainstream care deeply about.

He`s reactionary women`s rights. He`s flip-flop on abortion--on
immigration reform. He was for it, now he`s against it. And his economic
policies in New Jersey have been positively (inaudible). They help the top
1 percent. Give a short shrift to the middle class and the poor.

SCHULTZ: He doesn`t poll too poorly in Iowa. But I want to stay on this
traffic story for just a moment. I guess you call it New Jersey traffic
gate.

SHRUM: Which gate?

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Well, how would this be investigated? Who would have the
power to investigate the governor`s office to find out if he did something
like this?

SHRUM: Well, I think the Democratic legislators holding hearings on this.
I think they will find out a lot more about it. You know it`s.

SCHULTZ: But they`d have to get into the emails. They`d have to get into
the phone records, conversations, stuff like that.

SHRUM: Look, Ed, if there was an email or a piece of paper that said we
need to close these lanes down because there`s a traffic hazard. We have
to check for it. We have to rebuild something. You can bet that would
have been put out by the Christie Administration already.

There`s no such piece of paper. The fact is, they were mad. They (got
that) they can`t stand opposition of any kind. They -- as I said, we`re
cruising the reelection and this guy was the mayor of Fort Lee was a
Democrat who were supporting a Democrat, who is running a doomed campaign.
Why would they go out and do this except if it`s in their DNA to try to
take revenge on people who oppose them.

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s speaks to its arrogance and his power if this is the
way it is, it`s a one of those -- isn`t this kind of like a small hole
sinking a big ship? I mean, you know, it`s just, there was a drip, there
was a drip, there was a drip and all of a sudden boom, you`re at the bottom
of the lake.

SHRUM: Well, and they`re going to be more holes because people are really
going to look at this guys record.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Bob Shrum, great to have you with us tonight. Thanks so
much.

SHRUM: Thank you Ed.

SCHULTZ: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with
Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening Rev.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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