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PoliticsNation, Wednesday, Janary 22, 2014

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POLITICS NATION
January 22, 2014

Guests: Bob Bauer, Jess McIntosh, Abby Huntsman, Kim Padowitz, Faith
Jenkins

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, taking a toll. There are new indications today of the
stark political reality now confronting New Jersey governor Christie as his
administration faces multiple investigations. It is a legal challenge and
now clearly a political one.

Before the controversy his favorability rating in New Jersey was a whopping
65 percent. Now after repeated questions about his administration his
favorability has dropped to 46 percent. That`s a 19 point decline. And
his unfavorability rating is going the other way, up 16 points. And it
appears to be a pattern. A Quinnipiac poll shows his unfavorability up
seven points. A Pew poll shows that it is 17 points and a 17 point jump in
unfavorability. Clearly, the controversy is taking a political toll at
least for now.

What about the legal front? Today the Newark Star Ledger published this
photo from September showing the governor posing with the top executive of
the Rockefeller Group. That is the developer hoping to build in Hoboken,
New Jersey. Hoboken`s mayor claims Christie officials threatened to
withhold Sandy aid unless the developer`s project moved forward. The
developer is not accused of any wrong doing. It is the conduct of the
Christie administration officials being questioned.

Late today, a video surfaced of the governor from the same night, the same
night of the photo apparently speaking about that executive Leslie Smith
referring to him as Les.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Les is here. I don`t need to tell
Les that members of the board who are here that have been there for a long
time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, this doesn`t prove anything except that they knew each
other, but it is the new reality for Christie. Everything is under a
microscope.

Joining me now are Karen Finney and Jonathan Capehart.

Thank you for being here.

JONATHAN CAPEHART, OPINION WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Thanks, Rev.

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC HOST, DISRUPT: Hey, Rev.

SHARPTON: Karen, put this into context politically speaking. How
worrisome are the new numbers for Governor Christie?

FINNEY: I think they are very worrisome because what they indicate is, you
know, part of the problem that Christie has is that just the appearance,
right? People can make inferences so one of the numbers in the poll that I
saw was people just don`t quite believe he didn`t know anything about what
was going on with the bridge scandal. So point being that, you know, while
we are learning new facts that actually creates more uncertainty.

But then the inferences that people draw on their owned and without hearing
from him which on some instance he won`t be able to respond is that also is
going to create a problem whereby people say well, that just doesn`t pass
the smell test to me. And I think that is part of what you are starting to
see in the numbers.

SHARPTON: You know, Jonathan, Karen says people are just not believing it.
Today the Rutgers poll came out. And they asked New Jersey voters if they
think Christie`s aides shut down the lanes without his knowledge, 56
percent said it was somewhat or very unlikely that Christie didn`t know, 42
percent said it was somewhat or very likely that Christie did know.

Now, here is the point that I think is interesting here, without a real
smoking gun, without anybody really pointing the finger at Christie that is
involved in his administration, 56 percent said it was somewhat or very
unlikely that he didn`t know.

CAPEHART: Well, I mean, that speaks to not so much what happened but how
the governor has run his administration and his sort of public persona.
That`s what that number speaks to. He is going to hands on governor and
said, in your face governor. He has been marketing himself as a can do
governor. So, the idea that all of a sudden, that we are supposed to put
that aside and say that there is no possible way he could have known that
this happened, I think that`s why you see the number so high.

But you know, you are right. We haven`t seen anything that directly links
governor Christie to the lane closures back in September. And until there
is some direct link, some smoking gun in the way that now with the
indictment in Virginia, the McDonnell`s, a direct e-mail from Maureen
McDonnell to Johnny Williams talking about a shopping spree, and doing that
until we see something like that with regard to bridge gate, governor
Christie, I think people will continue to give him a bit of a benefit of a
doubt.

SHARPTON: Yes, that`s true. But numbers -- let me bring you to another
question I have.

Governor Christie said he never asked, for example, Bridget Kelly, to
explain why she sent the e-mail saying time for traffic problems in fort
lee. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: I have not had conversation with Bridget Kelly since the e-mail
came out. And so, she was not given the opportunity to explain why she
lied because it was so obvious that she had. And quite frankly, I am not
interested in the explanation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, in a month earlier when Christie announced the resignation
of port authority official, Bill Baroni, Christie said it was something
that had been in the once for months maintaining there was nothing deeper
going on, Karen.

FINNEY: Well, that`s right. And so -- but I think at that point,
remember, they were at a very different point in this way this story has
been unfolding. At that point, remember, I think it was around the time
Baroni had testified about the existence of this traffic study and we saw
those e-mails where people thought hey, he did a good job, you know, kind
of with that story.

And the story had kind of subsided. I mean, remember that part of the
reason that the story kind of came back up was, one, the e-mails were
released. But then, two, which I think was done intentionally in
conjunction with the subpoena was about to run out.

So, until those things happen, that really created I think the drama that
we are now seeing whereas Baroni was able to kind of get out of there
without to, you know, with a little bit more cover.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, when you look at this, Jonathan, there are signs
on both sides. You have, on the legal lane here is the headline from
today`s Star Ledger, experts say it is enough evidence to pursue Hoboken
mayor`s claims against Christie`s administration. And it quotes the
president of association of criminal defense lawyers of New Jersey. The
quote says the word of a single person under oath if believed can be
considered by a jury as proof beyond a reasonable doubt. There are people
serving long prison terms based on the sworn testimony of a single person
without any corroborating evidence.

But on the other hand, former New Jersey governor, Tom Kean, a Republican
and a Christie ally says the lane closing scandal won`t hurt Christie.
Former governor Kean told the "Wall Street Journal" he still expects the
governor to run for president and that he will be a top contender as long
as no evidence directly links him to the matter. He can get over it, Mr.
Kean said.

So, the polls are certainly not saying what Kean said. And there are the
legal experts that say you are going to need more than the statement of one
person who try prosecute a governor. So, you have extreme statements on
both sides. Where in lies the truth, Mr. Capehart?

(LAUGHTER)

CAPEHART: That`s right. Thanks for the easy question, Rev.

There is a big if. If the jury believes that the Hoboken mayor and the
thing she has going for her is her diary which she has handed over to
federal authorities, if she is able to, you know, testify in court and the
jury believes her then the governor is in trouble. The governor is going
to, at some point, have to answer questions either in the court or to the
public about the mayor`s allegations in some manner.

On the other hand, I think when it comes to Governor Kean and their son
say, Senator Kean and the conversations about governor Christie and his
presidential viability, look. That is wishful thinking on their part. I
mean, they have been supporters of governor Christie for a very long time.
Of course, they think that unless and until a smoking gun comes out that
connects the governor to bridge gate that he will be able to survive this.

But let`s keep something in mind here. Governor Christie is a great
general election candidate but he is viewed with enormous suspicion by the
Republican party base. And you look on twitter and you talk to enough
conservatives and they are not exactly unpleased by what has happened to
Governor Christie.

SHARPTON: You know, Karen, when you look, also, and again, you don`t know
whether something that is politically damaging is legally damaging but
certainly some things raised legally can hurt you politically like the
pictures of him with the people from the Rockefeller group. And again,
this group is not being accused of anything, it is the Christie
administration people. But just the inference that he knows them that he
is buddies with them, even remain that legally, doesn`t it add to the
political possible fallout that there was something going on here for a
friend?

FINNEY: Absolutely. I mean, look, just remember within the confines of
the legal process it may come to the point where he is asked for certain
documents or asked to testify in a certain manner. And he either invokes
executive privilege because remember, he has given us the caveat about, you
know, what kinds of investigations he is willing to participate in.

SHARPTON: Appropriate one.

FINNEY: Appropriate one, right. So, from a legal construct, there may be
things that he tries not to do or does that are perfectly within bounds of
law, but with public perception and politics would they people say why
wouldn`t invoke privilege? Why wouldn`t you answer that question? Why
can`t you just come out and say, you know, no way anybody in your staff
would have said that to the mayor of Hoboken? I mean, at some point that
is the tension between what is legal and what is also the public perception
and how does it impact the politics.

SHARPTON: Well, we are going to have to leave it here at this point
anyway. A lot of questions that still remain to be answers.

Karen Finney and Jonathan Capehart, thank you both for your time. Don`t
forget to watch "Disrupt" with Karen Finney, weekends at 4:00 eastern here
on MSNBC.

Coming up, President Obama vowed to fix the broken voting system to fix the
long lines. Today, the commission he appointed is recommending action for
change. The co-chair of the commission joins me live.

And on the 41st anniversary of Roe versus Wade the GOP is ramping up
attacks on women`s rights.

Plus, an unarmed man shot dead in a Florida movie theater. Will he use the
Stand Your Ground defense?

And he is back.

(VIDE CLIP PLAYING)

SHARPTON: He`s the one and only Bill Cosby and there are reports about a
big news story coming about him tonight. You`ll want to hear this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: On election night 2012, President Obama promised to fix the long
voting lines at polls across the country. Some people waited seven hours
to vote. Today a major step forward. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank every
American who participated in this election whether you voted for the very
first time or waited in line for a very long time. By the way, we have to
fix that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: President Obama on election night 2012 promising to fix the
unacceptably long lines that suppressed the vote all across the country.
Those lines were a national disgrace, particularly in swing states like
Florida where people waited four, five, even six hours or more just to
vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: This is the longest early voting line in
south Florida at the Miramar Library where voters could wait up to three
hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Yes, it is a very long line. These folks
arriving between 9:00 and 10:00. Their estimated wait up to four hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: People waiting four hours to vote. Some
people actually got here at 6:00 this morning. They had to wait.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I waited four like hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Tony Williams who was last in line finished
voting at 9:30, 2 1/2 hours after the polls closed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: One voter (INAUDIBLE) became a symbol of this injustice and the
president told her story at last year`s state of the union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: When (INAUDIBLE) arrived to the polling place, she was told the
wait to vote might be six hours. As time tick by, her concern was not
about her tired body or aching feet or the folks like her w would get their
say. Hour after hour, a troll of people stayed in line to support her
because (INAUDIBLE) is 102-years-old. And they erupted in cheers when she
finally put on a sticker that read I voted.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: (INAUDIBLE) got a standing ovation as President Obama announced
a bipartisan commission to fix America`s voting crisis. Today, that
commission delivered its report to the president and its recommendations
include expanding early voting, expanding online registration, supporting
schools as voting places and increasing the number of bilingual poll
workers.

These are common sense solutions for our growing democracy and they are
called for action -- a call to action to protect our fundamental right to
vote.

Joining me now is Bob Bauer, former White House council and co-chair of the
commission.

Bob, thank you for being here.

ROBERT BAUER, COCHAIRMAN, ELECTION COMMISSION: Thank you for having me.

SHARPTON: And also, congratulations on this report.

BAUER: Thank you.

SHARPTON: You spent months working on this. Is the bottom line that we
should make it easier to vote and not harder?

BAUER: The bottom line, Reverend Sharpton, is that there are problems that
affect the voting experience of millions of Americans that put up
unnecessary obstacles to the exercise of the vote and that they are
identifiable and they are solvable. And we heard that throughout the
country wherever we went in public hearings, in fact finding.

And so, so we`ve drawn up some recommendations that we believe will have
broad bipartisan support just as our report is a unanimous bipartisan
report and that will enable voters currently facing the obstacles to be
relieved of them. And that includes lines and it includes a variety of
other of the obstacles that the president asked us by executive order to
examine.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, one state in particular I want to point to,
Florida, where I did a lot of touring with my civil rights group, Mass
Action Network mission curve (ph) and in the 2012 election 201,000 Florida
residents didn`t get to vote at all because of long lines. And I saw huge
lines, long lines. How does this commission`s report affect and impact
that and try to alleviate a lot of that?

BAUER: We look at the causes of lines and there are any number of them.
There are a variety of factors that concede into long lines as you can have
difficulties with the management of the polling places, inaccurate voter
lists, a whole host of issues all of which can produce these long lines.

What we have done is made recommendations at various points of attack and
we have concluded unanimously that if those recommendations were
implemented jurisdictions across the country could assure that no American
would have to wait longer than 30 minutes to vote. And that 30 minutes
bench mark that we approved unanimously is one we will be promoting
throughout the country.

In addition to the recommendations that we make in the report, we also
through our Web site have made available online tools that election
administrators can use and work with and improve upon that will help them
allocate resources and plan the polling place so they have the resources
necessary to move the voters through in an efficient fashion and meet the
30 minute minimum expectation.

SHARPTON: But there are many states around the country that are trying to
lessen the early voting days and not expand it. This report is calling for
the expansion of early voting days which runs contrary to what many states
are trying to do.

BAUER: We say the traditional Election Day one day of the year from early
in the morning until late at night, no longer serves the needs or meets the
expectation of voters. And so, we are calling on jurisdictions to look at
providing, and many do, multiple opportunities to vote before Election Day
including early voting. That is going to accomplish any number of goals.
It is certainly will help with limiting long line problems because you just
spread out the voting over a number of days.

It will also obviously help Americans vote the way they live. It will
accommodate the needs of Americans to have some flexibility in the days and
times and ways that they vote. So for those reasons we call for those
multiple opportunities to vote before what has long been the one
traditional Election Day.

SHARPTON: Well, Bob Bauer, it is an important report. We must, must take
action. I will also cite in the report where it says and I`m quoting
"fraud is rare but when it does occur absentee ballots are often the method
of choice." Let`s take action for fraud a rare. It says.

Thank you for your time tonight.

BAUER: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up how`s this for rebranding. Republicans are vowing to
make the war on women their center piece of their 2014 agenda.

Plus, Glen Beck says he regrets helping to tear the country apart. Well, I
have some advice for him how he can make amends. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We are already off to the races in Kentucky even if it is not
time for the Kentucky derby season yet.

Republican senator Mitch McConnell is in the political fight of his life
this year against tea party challenger, Matt Bevin. Today, Freedom Works,
the powerful conservative group endorsed Bevin. Senator McConnell is
touting his work and what he has done to help people of Kentucky to get
health care. A man who survived throat cancer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like many others I have cancer but Mitch McConnell
stepped in and helped create cancer screening programs and provide
compensation for sick workers. He knocked down walls for us. He helped
save people`s lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: That`s great news. What senator McConnell is not saying is that
he has also vowed to deny millions of Americans health care.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: The single best thing we can
do for the American health care system is to get rid of Obamacare.

I would probably be running for the exit, too, if I supported this law.

I would be looking to change the subject.

This law is a disease. Anybody who thinks we moved beyond it is dead
wrong. Obamacare should be repealed root and branch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: But Obamacare is already helping millions of Americans. Just
look at the senator`s home state. Over 130,000 people have signed up. And
today, we got more great news. Nationwide over six million people have
become Medicaid ineligible since Obamacare took effect. And another three
million young Americans have gained coverage through their parents` plan.
That is nine million people who might not have had health coverage before.

Did senator McConnell think we wouldn`t notice what his new campaign
strategy is really all about? Nice try, but remember this one down the
stretch. We got you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: I`ve often said in my travels
around the world, you can judge a nation and how successful it will be
based on how it treats its women and its girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Powerful words from the president today as he announced a new
initiative to fight sexual assault. If you can judge a nation based on
how it treats women, what about judging a political party the same way? On
that score, we saw today from the GOP how it was completely unacceptable.

On the 41st anniversary of Roe versus Wade the head of the Republican
National Committee delayed the start of RNC`s annual meeting. Why? So
Republicans could protest the right to choose at the annual march for life
pushing back the annual meeting so they could march against women`s rights.
That is what this GOP stands for. And what did we hear at the march? Here
is House Majority Leader Eric Cantor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), MAJORITY LEADER: I`m also proud to announce that
next week the house will vote once and for all to end taxpayer funding for
abortions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: No taxpayers pay for abortions now. It really means poor women
enrolled in Medicaid are denied abortion care. But the GOP rarely misses
an opportunity to attack women`s rights and RNC is doubling down on its
anti-choice agenda. Considering a resolution to quote, "Reject a strategy
of silence on the abortion issue when candidates are attacked with war on
women rhetoric." Candidates attacked with war on women rhetoric because
they launched a war on women, attacking rights, wrecking anti-abortion
restrictions. How is this working out for them? Yet today they are bowing
to make abortion front and center. Good luck with that strategy.

Joining me now are Jess McIntosh and Abby Huntsman. Thank you both for
being here.

ABBY HUNTSMAN, MSNBC CO-HOST, "THE CYCLE": Thanks, Rev.

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST: Thanks for having me.

SHARPTON: Jess, it is the anniversary of Roe versus Wade and the GOP is
doubling down on its anti-choice agenda. What is your reaction?

MCINTOSH: I give up. Someday I am going to stop being surprised at their
inability to learn a lesson, but it turns out today is not that day. I
mean, they really started putting this issue front and center during the
2012 elections and we saw what happened. Women turned out in historic
numbers to reject this agenda and elect democratic candidates. So
Republicans seem to pay a little bit of lip service to the idea that they
needed to do some work. They talked about rebranding, they said they would
going to hold sensitivity trainings so that they would know how to talk to
women. And then I guess they just decided to hang it all and we are going
to go back to the old playbook.

SHARPTON: Yes. Abbey, what happened to the re-branding? You know, Reince
Priebus did this autopsy that come out with rebranding. What happened?

HUNTSMAN: Well, that`s not going to happen overnight as we know. But it
is amazing to think that, you know, it wasn`t too long ago that both
parties tolerated a pro-choice Republican or pro-life Democrat. This is
the most divisive issue I think that we face today in politics. And you
see different polling on this. I mean, I see the Gallup poll that shows
actual majority of Americans are pro-life or identify more with pro-life.
I know there are other polls that show the opposite of that of this is
something the GOP needs to get right.

And they need to get it right with women. Because it is not so black and
white. When it comes to abortion, when it comes to being pro-life and I`m
pro-life myself.

SHARPTON: Right.

HUNTSMAN: And I think it`s something they should stand tall if that`s what
they believe. And let`s find a way to talk about it. Let`s talk about it
in terms of educating women. Let`s talk about adoption, let`s talk about
it in a positive compassionate way. Because there are a number of women, I
can`t tell you how many come-up to be Republican woman that say, I`m pro-
life but I don`t want to judge someone else for what they do with their
body. I don`t want to tell them what they should do with their body. And
I think the Republican Party has to find the right way to talk about that
or it`s going to become even more complicated down the road for them.

SHARPTON: But that`s the problem, Jess. Because it is a huge issue on the
state level. Last year 24 states enacted a total of 53 anti-choice
measures. I mean, how can this be fought back?

MCINTOSH: I think the biggest thing that we can do is make sure that we
are electing strong democratic women at state and local levels. It is the
thing that Emily`s List does that I love the most that I get to talk about
the list, is trying to go into communities and recruit strong candidates
and get them to run at those state and local levels so that we have strong
champions for women and families pushing back against this extreme agenda
in state capitols just like we do in Washington. I loved Abby`s point
about the polls showing.

If you look at different one, the countries pro-choice will be looking at
different one the country is not. One thing that is consistent is that
Americans do not want this issue to be the priority of our government even
if you identify as pro-life you are more likely to think that the decision
belongs to the woman and her doctor and not with a politician. And Planned
Parenthood put a poll that showed 70 percent Southerners and 62 percent of
Republicans didn`t think that this issue should be a priority. So, I think
the way that the Republican Party puts it wrong is like continuing to put
it front and center at the expense of jobs in the economy and the issue
that women really want to hear from their leaders about.

SHARPTON: But Abby, abortion is going to be a major issue in the 2014
election. National Journal reports that anti-abortion movement is planning
to go on the offense this year as part of the effort to help the Republican
Party take over the Senate. Red-state Democrats like Kay Hagan in North
Carolina, Mary Landrieu in Louisiana, Mark Pryor in Arkansas and Mark
Begich in Alaska, will be assailed as pro-abortion rights extremists if
they don`t support a proposed ban on abortion after 20 weeks. Doesn`t this
show how far right the party is going?

HUNTSMAN: It definitely has moved even further right especially on this
issue on women`s rights. And when it comes to women`s vote, we know women
vote more than men do. They are no longer voting alongside their husband,
their independent thinkers and they`re independent voters and they vote
most times with compassion. So, I think where the Republican Party loses
people is with the extreme rhetoric when there is this competition among
Republican governor to see who can put forward the most extreme anti-
abortion bill. That is not where the focus should be, that`s what they`re
needs to be and I hope that they begin to start talking about it in a more
compassion way.

SHARPTON: Jess, the Senate is up for grabs. Kay Hagan is up against a
serious challenge in North Carolina.

MCINTOSH: Yes. She is up against seven challengers in North Carolina.
That field just keeps growing. But we can point to the polling showing
that Republicans and Southerners, I mean, they bother to include
Southerners in these poll, do not want this issue front and center.
Republicans are not going to win the votes of women by talking about this
issue using this extreme rhetoric. They`re going to win the votes of women
by talking about their daily lives and the things they need and their
economic realities.

Unfortunately, Republicans don`t have anything to say to women on that
issue. That`s why they keep coming back to the tried and true play book.
Democrats are offering a clear contrast by talking about the pocket book
issues that women and families care about. By talking about racing the men
and women --

SHARPTON: What they keep talking it, Abby. And they get extremists that
go all the way out there, this is where the war on women perception is
being put on some candidates deservedly so.

HUNTSMAN: Well, I agree with Jess that people don`t want to be defined
this. Especially women we don`t want to be defined by this. You have, you
know, these men that are going around talking about what it needs to be
done. And that is not only a turn off to half of the country that are pro-
choice but a number of Republican women that don`t want them defining the
message. They will be well served to bring more women into the fall to
help them with their messaging. I mean, that`s where they`re going to get
it right is actually hearing what women want to hear when it comes to this
issue.

SHARPTON: Jess McIntosh and Abby Huntsman, thank you both for your time.

HUNTSMAN: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: And be sure to catch Abby on "THE CYCLE," weekdays at 3:00 p.m.
right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, an unarmed man shot dead in a Florida movie theater. Now talk
of a popcorn defense and maybe the return in stand your ground defense.

And later, a big report on Bill Cosby`s comeback tonight. You want to hear
this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: A fatal shooting in Florida over text messages and a box of
popcorn. It`s the latest battle in the fight over stand your ground. Chad
Oulson and his wife Nicole were in a movie theater last week when he got
into an argument with another man over a text he was sending to his
daughter three-year-old daughter. What happened next was unthinkable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Dozens of Pasco deputies swarm the -- in Wesley Chapel
afternoon as someone opened fire in one of the theaters.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Witnesses say 71-year-old Reeves shot Oulson in the
chest. Oulson`s wife was wounded trying to block the gunshot with her
hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Reeves was angry over Oulson`s the texting.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: And then he was shot. He staggered two seats over, fell
on my son and I.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The sheriff says that Reeves had no reason to shoot.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Over a cell phone, over somebody texting. It is
ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Chad Oulson died of a single bullet to his chest, killed by a
71-year-old ex-police captain who said he felt threatened when Oulson threw
a box of popcorn at him. His widow is left in shock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE OULSON, WIFE OF SHOOTING VICTIM: My whole world just got shattered
into a million pieces and now I am left trying to pick them up and putting
them all back together. It is so hard and so unbearable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The suspect has been charged with second degree murder but his
lawyer says he will likely seek immunity under the state`s stand your
ground law.

Joining me now is Criminal Defense Lawyer Kim Padowitz and former
Prosecutor Faith Jenkins. Thank you for being here.

FAITH JENKINS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thank you.

KIM PADOWITZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Kim, you live down in Florida. Can this former police captain
use stand your ground defense based on fear of a box of popcorn?

PADOWITZ: The terrible answer Reverend is yes. His lawyers should attempt
to use this horrible law. And I say it is horrible in my opinion. It is a
law that the defense attorney representing this man should go forward and
say the stand your ground law says that if you are in a place you have a
right to be and you are in fear of imminent death, great bodily harm or a
forcible felony, and here the lawyers are going to argue that the forcible
felony is that his client is over the age of 60-years-old, is a senior
citizen, and therefore, the battery that was going to be had against him
would in fact be elderly abuse which is the forcible felony. So, in his
crazy mix-up stay of Florida which is the stand your ground law, that is
the argument that his defense attorney should make, and he`s going to make
it in this case.

SHARPTON: But Faith, this is what I have been arguing against stand your
ground all along. It is out of control. I mean, it is almost like anyone
can use it. The Christian Science monitor says, some legal experts argue
that Reeves age that Ken just talk about, could play a factor in his self-
defense claim. Quote, "Reeves may be able to legally claim that he was
justified in shooting Mr. Oulson, given Reeves advanced age. Florida law
allows deadly self-defense in order to prevent the imminent commission of a
forcible felony, attacking a senior citizen is a forcible felony in
Florida." I mean, can shooters really point to their age as a reason why a
shooting, a fatal shooting is justified.

JENKINS: Right. Well, he is going to use his age as a factor in the fact
that he was afraid to defend himself any other way. But except pulling out
his gun, he`s trying to use it that way. But I don`t think it is going to
work here. Because that fear that you have to see that has to be
reasonable. And the last time I checked, someone throwing popcorn at you
isn`t put you in reasonable fear that your life is about to be taken. Or
that you`re about to be greatly injured.

And also, I want to point out about this guy, he is a retired former police
captain. He has training and experience on a professional level of how to
assess threats and how to handle situations where he gets into a conflict
and he knows there is a spectrum of force that he can use. He knows what
the law on self defense. And I think he`s inexcusable here. And his
training and experience will be used against him to show he did not have to
shoot and kill that man.

SHARPTON: How about that Ken could the fact that he has training and the
fact that he was not just a regular citizen but had been in law
enforcement, could that be used against him?

PADOWITZ: Yes. Faith is absolutely correct. It can be used against him,
the prosecutors will use it against him and they will also point to Florida
law which says that you can`t just be elderly, mean over the age of 60.
You also have to be infirmed. There has to be some mental, you know, lack
in ability or physical ability that makes you infirm and not able to defend
yourself as a younger person would be. And I don`t think this gentleman
who is a former police officer, head of a S.W.A.T. team is going to fit
that definition. And therefore I predict that when the defense is used a
judge will deny the motion and not grant immunity. But this is why we are
having the discussion because this stand your ground law is out there.

SHARPTON: Yes.

PADOWITZ: And people like this individual are using it, it is it`s bad.

SHARPTON: Now, Faith, another problem that he is going to have is another
couple had a similar incident with the same man Reeves at the same movie
theater less than a month ago. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He gets up, he is like, can you do me a favor? Can
you please just stop texting? I was like, oh my God, what is wrong with
this guy.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Reeves reportedly yelled at another movie goer for
texting and then turned his attention back to the Dixon family.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He followed me to the bathroom out and I felt very
uncomfortable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, how could this hurt his stand your ground claim. He has
done this before, he didn`t shoot but clearly he`s going to use stand your
ground. But he has a prior incident around the same type of thing, texting
in a movie theater.

JENKINS: And this witness said that he got up and actually followed her
out of the movie theater to the restroom. That is very aggressive
behavior. A prosecutor is going to argue he had this built up animus, he
has a huge pet peeve here which is people texting in movie theaters. It
annoys a lot of people. But most people don`t get up and follow people to
the restroom chastise them about behavior. So, they`re going to look at
this pattern of conduct and say, he raise a boiling point. In this
situation what this man, he decided to pull out his gun not because that he
had so, because he wanted to.

SHARPTON: Well, Ken, that`s law. The stand your ground law is now 26
states. Now you see why some of us are so concerned about it.

PADOWITZ: We should absolutely be concerned. In fact, in Florida it is
going to get even worse because there is now a proposal in the Florida
legislature to expand the stand your ground law and to allow people to even
fire warning shots and be covered with the immunity. So, it is really
becoming out of hand, in my opinion. And that is why the Florida
Prosecuting Attorneys Association which represents all the state attorneys
in the state, are argued against the original passage of the law in the
first place. It is not a good thing for Florida.

SHARPTON: Well, we will be certainly watching this. Kim Padowitz and
Faith Jenkins, thank you for your time this evening.

JENKINS: Thank you.

PADOWITZ: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, we have some exciting news to share about Bill Cosby.
And Glenn Beck says, he regrets helping tear the country apart. I have
some advice for Mr. Beck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We have big news on the one and only Bill Cosby. According to
the Hollywood reporter Cosby is returning to NBC with a brand new sitcom.
NBC has not confirmed the news but the show will reportedly feature Cosby
as the patriarch of a multi-generational family. Sounds familiar? I would
definitely be tuning in. Bill Cosby is one of my all time favorites and so
is the Cosby show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, HOST, "THE BILL COSBY SHOW": We are talking about a car. I
knew something was wrong when we went down there and the man saw that she
brought her father so the man said I don`t think I can find the keys to the
car. And so, I said I don`t think I can find the money.

(LAUGHTER)

The man found the keys. So, we get t into the car. Now, first of all, to
be honest this is a beautiful, beautiful looking car.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Thank you.

COSBY: I mean, if Denise is sitting in this car her friends are going to
say look out Denise or chilly down or cool back or whatever this people
say. I put the key in the ignition and turn the thing and it went broom,
broom, broom, broom, broom, broom, broom -- it`s not running yet. It`s
just thinking about it.

(LAUGHTER)

And just the right side said -- she is sitting there like this. You know,
like she is dancing, see. It`s not started up yet. The car had not
started up yet. So I press on the gas. You think I`m lying. The car said,
what?

(LAUGHTER)

I`m not lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Like I said, if Bill Cosby has a new show on NBC, I`m definitely
tuning in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Finally tonight, regrets from Mr. Glenn Beck. He rose to fame
on FOX News by catering to some of the most venomous and vile passions on
the right, he compared the president`s policies to 911, he said Obama lost
a Marxist. And said, the president had a, quote, "deep seeded hatred of
white people." Now he has some regrets about his time on FOX.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I remember it as an awful lot of fun.
And that I made an awful lot of mistakes. And I wish, I can go back and be
more uniting in my language. Because I think I played a role
unfortunately, and helping tear the country apart. And it`s not who we
are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Self-reflection is a good thing and everybody deserves a second
chance. If Mr. Beck wants to stop being a divider then he has to walk the
walk and not just talk the talk. A few years ago, Mr. Beck took issue with
something I said about Mormons so I went on his show to talk about it and I
flew to Salt Lake City to visit elders in the Mormon Church and learn more
about the faith. Mr. Beck should do something, show that he is serious
about trying to be different. We all should grow. We all should do
better. But if we don`t walk the walk, if we don`t back up words with
action people will look at the lack of action and say it`s just a new act.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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