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The Ed Show for Monday, February 3, 2014

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February 3, 2014

Guest: Michael Isikoff, Leo Gerard, Gordon Johnson, Eric Boehler, Goldie
Taylor, Michael Brune

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed
Show live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. Let`s get to work.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R) NEW JERSEY: Well, and let me just clear
something up, OK, about my child who printed Wildstein.

SCHULTZ: But it`s Wildstein`s word against the governors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, former appointee of Governor Chris Christie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the appointee is David Wildstein.

CHRISTIE: Even travel in the same circus in high school.

SCHULTZ: He was distancing himself from Wildstein there.

haven`t said that the governor knew when this was happening. It`s
something Mr. Wildstein said.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wildstein who was appointed by Christie.

CHRISTIE: He even and I were not friends in high school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wish we could all get along like we used
to in middle school.

CHRISTIE: We were not even acquaintances in high school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn`t even go here.

CHRISTIE: You know, I was the class president in athlete.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not new (ph).

CHRISTIE: I don`t know what David is doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I respectfully ascertain my right to remain

SCHULTZ: Why would he take the fifth if he didn`t have legal

CHRISTIE: All I know is -- I don`t know.

SCHULTZ: The first signal an accusation to the governor of New Jersey
may have been aware of the lane closures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing has been proven.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I don`t know his offset (ph) down at.

CHRISTIE: I`m not finished yet guys.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for
watching. Thanks for not looking good for New Jersey Governor Chris
Christie. New developments in the Bridgegate scandal have put the
Republican governor in a top spot. New Jersey Democrats are expecting
subpoena information today that could shed light on what the governor knew.
If we learn anything in this hour, we`ll bring it to you and bring you the

On Friday, Christie appointee David Wildstein released a letter
through his attorney claiming the lane closures were the Christie
administration`s order. The ex-Port Authority appointee also claims
evidence exist as well as tying Mr. Christie to having knowledge of the
lane closures during the period when the lanes were closed, contrary to
what the governor stated publicly in a two-hour press conference.

Now, as of now, no proof has come to light that Christie knew of the
lane closures. Here is what the governor said on January 9th.


CHRISTIE: I`ll say one last thing, just so we`re really clear. I had
no knowledge or involvement in this issue, in its planning or its
execution, and I am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here. I
had no knowledge of this of the planning, the execution, or anything about
it. And then I first found out about it after it was over.


SCHULTZ: This new charge from Wildstein came right as New Jersey was
preparing to host the Super Bowl. This could have been an enormous
platform for Chris Christie. His home state about to host the biggest
football game of the year and in the world, instead, the governor was booed
twice at pre-Super Bowl events.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Chris Christie down here.

CHRISTIE: Good afternoon everybody.


SCHULTZ: It`s not just football fans who are upset with the governor.
This weekend, New Jersey`s largest newspaper, the Star-Ledger called for
Christie to be impeached if the accusations are true. I think the pressure
must be getting to Christie after Wildstein`s lawyer released a letter.
Christie also claimed he had no knowledge of the closures. This weekend,
Christie took his defense a step further. Christie`s office decided to
attack David Wildstein`s high school record. They`re going back roughly 37
years. They released an e-mail with the following claims in it.

As a 16-year-old kid, Wildstein sued over a school board election. It
also claims Wildstein was accused by a high school teacher of deceptive
behavior. The e-mail goes on to say that Wildstein was a controversy on
air (ph). An anonymous blogger who had a habit of registering web
addresses in other people`s names. If all of this is true, may I ask, now
that the Christie administration is attacking Wildstein`s character, why
did his administration give the stamp of approval for him to be hired to
the Port Authority in the first place? I think Christie is running scared.

Meanwhile, Christie`s Republican buddies are running to TV cameras to
defend the governor. Here comes Rudy Giuliani again saying that there are
credibility issues with Wildstein.


RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. MAYOR, NEW YORK: This is a lawyer who`s riding
for a man who wants somebody else to pay his legal bills and he can`t get
them paid unless the governor was responsible. And he`s a guy that`s
seeking immunity. In fact, there are all those things in. Well, first of
all, it`s not evidence. It`s the suggestion -- that tantalizing suggestion
that there are may be evidence and then you got at least two big
credibility issues with it. So far, there is no evidence to suggest that
he`s not telling the truth. I think the governor knows the consequences if
he`s lying, it`s a really bad situation. If he`s not lying, then something
very unfair is being done to him.


SCHULTZ: I think it needs to be pointed out that in the letter that
was written by Wildstein`s attorney says, evidence exist. Now, I take that
as an absolute. That`s not speculation. This attorney is putting his
credibility in his professional career on the line saying that evidence
exists. But it keeps mounting in Christie`s favor.

Failed vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan is also coming to
Christie`s defense. He said Christie is his friend.


REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: I consider Chris Christie a friend. I
think he`s been a fantastic governor. Right now, all we know is one person
were against another. You can`t base any conclusion on such a thing. And
so, unless something else is no one or made clear, I don`t see why you
would change what`s going on right now. I don`t think he should step down
because nothing has been proven and you always give a person the benefit of
a doubt in those kinds of situations in my judgment.


SCHULTZ: If Christie is responsible for the lane closures, that
sounds like (ph) could come back to hunt Paul Ryan into 2016. As far as
2016 is concerned for Christie, he`s not backing down. He`s still looking
to the future. The governor still plans to speak its CPAC next month in

Keep in mind, evidence exist. That`s what the legal letter said.
Feature on the line for that attorney and that law firm to put their
credibility on the line stating in absolutes. This isn`t speculation.
This is what they believe. Are they looking to cut a deal? They probably

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think tonight`s
question. If the allegations are true, should Chris Christie be impeached?
Text A for Yes, text B for No to 67622. You can always go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results later on in this show.

For more, let me bring in NBC News National Investigator Correspondent
Michael Isikoff, and New Jersey Assemblyman Gordon Johnson. Gentlemen,
thanks for your time tonight.

Michael, let`s start with you. I understand that there is a new
development in dealing with Chris Christie`s campaign that they are going
to ask for funds to cover the cost of the investigations through the -- and
they have to get approval through the New Jersey election commission. Why
are they doing this and how complicated is this going to be, Michael?

first of all, it`s hundreds of thousands of dollars is the estimate of the
cost of complying with these subpoenas from the U.S. Attorney`s Office and
the state legislature. The campaign committee has to retrieve all the
documents. They say they have to hire an outside vendors, some sort of
computer forensics firm, to copy the hard drives on everybody`s computer
and cellphones and smartphones, and then they have to pay their lawyers.
There`s a big Washington law firm cut bags (ph) that has been hired to
represent the committee. All that is going to cost hundreds of thousands
of dollars.

Now, under New Jersey law, candidate`s office holders are not
permitted to use campaign funds to pay the cost of criminal investigations.
This is somewhat noble situation untold because Christie himself has not
been subpoenaed, it`s the campaign committee. But the bottom line here is
that if Chris Christie was hoping to be raising money right now for -- or
in the near future for a perspective presidential race, instead, he`s going
to have to be raising money or his campaign committee is going to be up to
be raising money to pay his legal cost and the cost of this investigation.
And that`s quite diversion you just only underscores how much of a
destruction and set back this has been for the governor.

SCHULTZ: Well Michael, I, you know, if someone on his committee is
innocent, here`s my computer, here you can have it, why is it causing so
much money to comply with subpoenas, all it is the turning over of
information, am I wrong on that?

ISIKOFF: Well, look, I mean, there are 20 to 30 employees of the
campaign committee. They all had computers or smartphones, those things
have to be imaged. I mean, these things are costly. I don`t know exactly,
I mean, in commercial litigation. You have to be thorough. You have to
complete. The one thing the campaign committee can afford is to have
missed something and then not have it turned over and then be shown that
they didn`t fully comply with the subpoena.

So, the cost estimates may be reasonable but the, you know, the -- one
of the things that`s important here is, look, we were expecting these
subpoenas, were supposed to be returned all back and this was to be
returned by 5 PM today. That campaign committee is granted a three-week
extension, while the New Jersey election commission considers this request.
We are -- we would learn today of the numerous other extensions. The
important thing is, we may not get the answers to these very critical
questions for quite some time and.


ISIKOFF: . and then remember, we got the problem of, you know, are we
going to get any live testimony. Bill Stepien who`s a key player in this,
and was the campaign manager, his lawyer on Friday said his going to take
the fifth, and he`s not going to turn over any of the documents either
because those they going to.


ISIKOFF: . they`re going to assert that those documents, the
reduction of those documents sort of violation as fifth and then rights.
So it`s quite and this -- this could go on for quite some time and getting
the answers, like I said to these questions, it`s not at all clear the
committee is going to be getting than anytime soon.

SCHULTZ: All right. Assemblyman Gordon Johnson is with us tonight as
well. What`s your reaction to Chris Christie attacking David Wildstein`s
high school record? What does that tell you if anything?

GORDON JOHNSON, (D-NJ) STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: Well, I thought that was an
interesting response to this situation. And it all goes to point out that
that the select committee, the legislative select committee that`s in place
to find out the truth is so important because the people of New Jersey and
Fort Lee in America want to know what happened, who knew, what, when, and
all the other facts involved in this case.

So, going back to high school record, that (inaudible) at the teacher.
That`s -- that`s irrelevant. The people want to know the facts about their
traffic chaos that occurred in Fort Lee and why.

SCHULTZ: All right. Michael Isikoff, what about the letter that was
written from Wildstein`s attorney saying that evidence exists? I mean,
that`s a very pretty.


SCHULTZ: . direct statement, I mean, this attorney is throwing his
reputation and law firm out on the line as well. He must know something, I
mean, evidence exist that`s an absolute.

ISIKOFF: Well it`s -- well, I`m not so sure how absolute it is
because it doesn`t tell us what this evidence is what -- what he`s talking
about whether David Wildstein had seen this evidence or just heard of the
evidence. I think there`s so many questions in the warning of that letter
that it`s really hard to know what to make of it, other than David
Wildstein clearly would seem to want some sort of immunity deal. And
that`s quite -- I`m not so sure that writing that letter was the best way
to get an immunity deal from the U.S. attorney.

I mean, any U.S. attorney is going to want a proper, is going to know
exactly what David Wildstein has to say, is going to see what this evidence
is, before they grant him immunity from criminal prosecution. So, that was
a bargaining maneuver by the lawyer in the public arena. And look, until
we see the documents, until we see exactly what Wildstein is talking about,
and what`s on the e-mails and the text messages from Bridget Kelly and Bill
Stepien and all the others, it`s just very difficult to know what to make
of this.

SCHULTZ: All right. Mr. Johnson, what about a possible impeachment
if this allegations are true? Largest news paper in New Jersey has come
out and said that the impeachment would be in order. Do you agree with

JOHNSON: I believe that I have to go with the Assemblyman Wisniewski
and Senator Weinberg, the co-chairs of this investigative committee, and
along with the advice of Mr. Schar, the legal adviser to the committee.
Once this committee comes with a conclusion as to what happened at that
time, we should determine if the "I" word -- "impeachment" word should be
used. But at this time, you know, it`s a credibility problem for the
government right now. The people I speak to on the street, the people I
talked in my district, think that he knew what happened and he knew he was
aware of it. So, he has to, of course, he`s innocent to have proven
guilty, but he has to come out, and through this investigation, come out in
the other side of this thing clean. So, and if he doesn`t come up.

SCHULTZ: And what.

JOHNSON: Yeah, go ahead.

SCHULTZ: And Gordon, what`s your response to the crowd booing Chris
Christie. Who would have thought that a year ago?

JOHNSON: Yeah, yeah. I`ll tell you, timing is everything and times
have changed.

SCHULTZ: No doubt. Michael Isikoff, Gordon Johnson, thanks for your
time tonight here on the Ed show. I appreciate it so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow and Facebook. We
want to know what you think.

Coming up, a Super Bowl commercial scores a touch-down for American-
made products. I was cheering. Still ahead, fiery explosions caused by
train derailments carrying oil should be enough to convince skeptics to
support the Keystone XL Pipeline. Is it about consumption or is it about
safety. I`d say build the pipeline. Later, I`ll talk with the executive
director of the Sierra Club about why he`s against this. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders. Ed Show Social Media nation has
decided and we are reporting.

On the hills of the Super Bowl, here are today`s top trenders voted on
by you.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) and whatever you call it.

SCHULTZ: The number three trender, Seahawks sore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five-time MVP Peyton Manning facing Russell

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we wanted to do coming into this game is
play the best couple (ph) we`d played all year. And that`s what we do

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Seattle Seahawks, in a first world
championship in franchise history.

SCHULTZ: Seattle swamps Denver at the middle-end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That Denver Broncos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And winning 43 to eight, defeating the Denver
Broncos in an absolute (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: The number two trender, pop rally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other big game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s game time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome. Puppy Bowl begins.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even if your team didn`t make the big game, you
can still root for this furies (ph). Here`s the competitors.

SCHULTZ: Dog lovers out for the action pack Puppy Bowl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yellow Chaise is Arcadian-mix (ph) from New

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made us New Orleans (inaudible) throughout sort
of touchdown.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Florence, four touchdowns, a Puppy Bowl record.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve had people twitting, puppies are cuter
than football players.

SCHULTZ: And today`s top trender, Ad Blitz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want alone to build the factory in America?
You can`t do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to hire workers here in the states?
They`re too expensive. You can`t do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t tell me, I can`t do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: proudly made in America.

SCHULTZ: WeatherTech`s super Sunday add touts its American roots.

DAVID MACNEIL, CEO WEATHERTECH: The exporting of American jobs is a
trend that must be stopped and reversed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At WeatherTech, we built American factories, we
use American raw materials, and we hire American workers.

MACNEIL: Life is simple. Be good to you fellow men, be kind to
animals, and the environment, and place building a quality product,
supporting your country, and your fellow American worker before profit.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Leo Gerard, President of United
Steelworkers International. Mr. Gerard, this of course is a story that the
president has somewhat been touting. He`s been talking about American
manufacturing here in a country where -- to bring these jobs back to
America. This is the incentive. They want to put incentives on the table
for companies to do just these.

But what is your reaction to this WeatherTech ad. This guy has spent
$4 million on a 30-second ad to tell the country, "You know what, you can
make something here and you can make money and I`ve got a thousand
employees." What do you make of this?

it wasn`t terrific ad and I thought it hit all the points` ad. He talked
about getting raw material, he talked about making, and he talked about
hiring American workers and being able to sell this product here. Yet, he
didn`t talk about where he came from. He originally wasn`t making the
product here. And then he decided that he can make that product here and
create real jobs here and he moved his operations here. So, that was a
terrific ad, as well as the ad with Bob Dylan and Chrysler.

And we know that we can make things here. We`ve got to have better
trade laws, we`ve got to stop having rotten trade deals, we`ve got to stop
giving companies an incentive -- a financial incentive to move jobs
offshore. If we can do those things, we can then reenergize the American
industrial base. And that creates good family supporting jobs. So I was -
- I was thrilled by those ads last night.

SCHULTZ: I was too. WeatherTech`s owner David MacNeil, I mean, this
guy to me is an American hero. Now, he chose the in source jobs. As you
said, he started back in 2007. You know, when he was getting materials
from overseas because he felt like he could get a better product with
American technology, American workers, and American material. What`s
keeping other companies from doing the same thing? Obviously, this guy
makes a living. He must be doing well. He spent $4 million on a TV ad for
30 seconds in the Super Bowl. And of course, he`s got us talking about it
now and other media paying attention to it. So, there`s certainly was a
calculation there. But what`s it going to take to get other companies to
do this?

GERARD: Ed, if you look at the history of these trade deals going
back to NAFTA, and I don`t, you know, I know you don`t want to just talk
about NAFTA and trade deals. But if you go back to those deals, it`s
continuously lack of enforcement, low wages, ability to have those -- as
they call it environmental freedom. And if you do that in Mexico, if you
look at what`s happening in China. China manipulates currency, China does
all the kinds of things that a cheater would do to give them an advantage.
And they`ve lured a number of companies there.

We saw what happened recently with Cooper Tire. Cooper Tire`s partner
in China refused to let them have their models, refused to let them have
their product. So what we need to do, Ed, is take away those incentives
that give the companies the incentives to move offshore. Give them an
incentive to as we said a minute ago, re-shore and bring those jobs back.
And don`t give tax breaks to companies that are moving jobs offshore.
America has accumulated.


GERARD: I want to say this slowly, America has accumulated since
NAFTA $11 trillion of trade deficits. And if trade deficits were so good,
why doesn`t Germany want one, why doesn`t France want one, why doesn`t
India want one, why doesn`t Germany or China want one, why doesn`t Mexico
want one. So we need to take away the incentives. We need to follow the
guy from WeatherTech. He proved that it can be done. We need to see what
Chrysler has done. They`ve proved it can be done. And that`s what we`ve
got to do. Bring those jobs home. Put people back to work and stimulate
the economy.

SCHULTZ: Here`s what David MacNeil had to say about outsourcing.
Listen to this.


MACNEIL: Recognizable American brands have been forced by short-
sighted management and buyers at large national chains to build factories
overseas just to save a lousy $0.50 on a tape measure. To these ruthless
fires, it`s all about the money. Rarely our product quality, the political
system, human rights, animal rights, and environmental cause to the planet
considered. Not to mention the cause to our society of exporting not only
jobs, but a whole entire factory.


SCHULTZ: I mean, this guy is a patriot. That`s what he is.

GERARD: He`s a hero.

SCHULTZ: He`s a guy who`s made a good living in America and he
realizes what it means. And the president talked about this at the State
of the Union address about, you know, citizenship and how the.


SCHULTZ: . citizen re-stepping up in the business community doing
something. And a new poll shows that 60 percent of Americans think that we
should be tough when it comes to trade policies with China and Japan to
stop on-fair trade practices. And I hope this gives, you know, pause to
proponents of the TTP. I hope that this attitude wakes up a lot of people
across America. Your thoughts Leo Gerard.

GERARD: It`s right on and one of the things that he said in there
moved up pretty fast is large corporations. Let me tell you that Walmart
goes to China and gets the lowest price possible for a product. Comes back
and tells American manufacturers sometimes, which they are, and say, "If
you can`t meet the China price, I`ll buy it from China." And what they do
is they drive our people down to either a low wage economy or they drive
them to China. And that`s something that has.


GERARD: . to stop and we need to take away those incentive. This
person from WeatherTech, he hit the nail right on the head. Those are the
issues and we now see that we`ve a got a Congress to maybe start and open
its eyes to this bad trade deals into fast track.


GERARD: We did a poll, Ed, of people`s belief for how to turn the
economy around. More than 85 percent of the population that we polled
regardless of age, regardless of income, regardless of poverty status, they
all believe that we need to bring jobs back to America.

SCHULTZ: No doubt. It is the linchpin to our economy. No doubt.
Great to have you with us Mr. Gerard. I appreciate your time and I thank

GERARD: Thank you very much.

SCHULTZ: Still ahead. A report from the State Department opens a way
to approval for the Keystone XL Pipeline. But environmental groups are
still against it. I`ll speak to the executive director of the Sierra Club
later in this broadcast.

Coming up, President Obama pushes back in his pre-game interview with
Super Bowl host network. But next, I`m taking your questions Ask Ed Live
coming up in the Ed Show next here on MSNBC. Stay with us. We`ll be right


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Love hearing from our viewers, appreciate the questions tonight in Ask
Ed Live.

Our first question comes from Christopher. "Have the GOP learned
their lesson from the previous government shutdown?"

Simple answer is no. They`re not guided by reason. They`re guided by
ideology. They`ll do whatever they can to get the victory. You know,
think they could put the Democrats in a bad life with the American people.
If they achieve their ideological goal, they will shutdown the government.
They`ll do it again if they have to.

Next question comes from Steve. "What was your reaction while
watching Seattle Seahawks and they won Super Bowl XLVIII?"

Well, quite honestly, I think, as a football fan, I was pretty
disappointed that Denver didn`t show up the play. They didn`t play the
game on Saturday. They didn`t play the game today. They played it
yesterday and Denver was not ready to go.

On the other hand, the Seattle`s Seahawks, they were fired up and
ready to go. They were focus. They were prepared. They were hungry.

You know, what`s interesting is that every time Denver completed a
pass, there was not very many yards after the completion. I know the
secondary, the line backers and the secondary for the Seattle Seahawks, I
mean, "Boom," they were right there.

They knew the routes. They were on. And the coverage was tight.
Completing the pass was not easy. And that`s why Manning kept throwing
short underneath. He wasn`t able to put the ball down the field.

So, I thought, yards after the catch was a big key as soon as there
was a reception boom, there was a tackle.

Give credit to the Seahawks. They were focused, ready to go. They
got after to the world champs. They deserve it.

Stick around, Rapid Response Panel coming up.

SUE HERERA, CNBC ANCHOR: I`m Sue Herera with your CNBC Market Wrap.
The steep fell off for stocks today. The DOW slides 326 points, the S and
P drops 40, and the NASDAQ also falls triple digit closing off 106 points
and below the 4,000 level.

A week with unexpected report on manufacturing was one of the factors
behind today`s selling. Factory activity fell to its lowest level since
May of last year.

And January was a rough month for the automakers, GM sales getting 12
percent, Fords with 7 percent, but Chrysler saw 8 percent gain.

And that`s it from CNBC. We are first in business worldwide. We`ll
back in a moment.

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. The Super Bowl is known for

For the past number of years, presidents who`ve sat down with the
network hosting the Super Bowl, this was no different this year, President
Obama with Fox News. This year, Fox News Host Bill O`Reilly, got the
honor. O`Reilly took the opportunity to hammer President Obama on issues
very familiar to the viewers of that network.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Was it the biggest mistake in your
presidency to tell the nation over and over "If you like your insurance,
you can keep your insurance?"

got a long list of my mistakes.

O`REILLY: Your detractors believe that you did not tell the world it
was a terror attack because your campaign didn`t want that out.

OBAMA: Bill, thanks about that.

O`REILLY: That`s what they believe.

OBAMA: And they believe it because folks like you are telling them

O`REILLY: No. That is in the past.


O`REILLY: . but isn`t that the biggest mistake?

OBAMA: Well, I, you know Bill what, as I said.

O`REILLY: You gave your enemies a lot of fodder for it. Your
commanders and the Secretary of Defense know it`s a terror attack.

OBAMA: Bill.

O`REILLY: Just an American, I`m just confused.

OBAMA: And I`m trying to explain it to, if you want to listen.


SCHULTZ: The ObamaCare website in Benghazi. That`s all Fox News.

I mean, if you hear anything about jobs or minimum wage or income
inequality or the TPP or Trade Agreements, things that really matter to
Americans, but I think that host always says that he`s looking out for us.

Those are the issues the American people are talking about. To his
credit, President Obama sat there and took O`Reilly`s line of questioning
in stride until Bill brought up an old IRS story.


O`REILLY: I`ve got to get to the IRS story because I don`t know what
happened there and I`m hoping maybe you can tell us. What some people are
saying is that the IRS was used at a local level in Cincinnati and maybe
other places to go after.

OBAMA: Absolutely wrong. Absolutely wrong.

O`REILLY: But how do you know that, because we still don`t know what
happened there?

OBAMA: Bill, we do -- that`s not what happened. They -- folks,
again, had multiple hearings on this. I mean, these kinds of things keep
on surfacing, in part, because you and your TV station will promote them.


SCHULTZ: President Obama was not alone in pushing back against that
network yesterday.

Former Secretary State Hillary Clinton sent out a twit reading, "It`s
so much more fun to watch FOX when it`s someone else being blitzed and

Joining me now for our Rapid Response Panel, Eric Boehler, Senior
Fellow at and also Goldie Taylor of Great to
have both of you with us tonight.

Eric, you first, is it a big deal that President Obama called out Fox
News and really questioned what their content was on what they focus on?
Your thoughts.

ERIC BOEHLER MEDIAMATTERS.ORG: I think it`s helpful. I think he was
a little more prepared this time, you know. We looked at the one O`Reilly
interviewed him in 2011 just constantly interrupting, would not let him
finish his sentence compared to how when O`Reilly interviewed Bush in 2006
that he let me answer questions for a minute, two minutes at a time, so I
think Obama was more ready this time and I think, you know, like with
Hillary with her twit, you know, Democrats aren`t intimidated by Fox News
anymore. So I think it was important that Obama showed he could sit down
with, you know, his arch nemesis and you saw him smiling because if you`re
the president, you have to laugh at some of this stuff after a while.

You know, the IRS is sort of his, you know, private army and why can`t
you explain what happened in Benghazi, I mean, it`s just the same bubble
questions. I mean, as Media Matters put it, you know, there was a laundry
list of previously answered questions. So I think it`s good he sat with
him. I think it was good he pushed back. And I think it shows that
Democrats see Fox for what it is and it`s obviously propaganda but there
ain`t an increasingly less influential bubble, I think.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Goldie, were you surprised that the level of
disrespect showed to the president?

GOLDIE TAYLOR, THEGRIO.COM: Frankly, I wasn`t surprised. Where I was
surprised, however about, is that we will play this in primetime before
national audience on the day of the Super Bowl and -- of the day of our
nation`s great coming together as it were and so I was kind of surprised
that it happened then.

I wasn`t surprised about the level of disrespect. You know, I`ve
always said that Bill O`Reilly has a job to do and he does it well. He has
job to play cape (ph), a very small based of cable news, watching cable
news, watching globally are actually very small subset of, you know, the
American populist.

But those who watch Fox News are looking for a certain line of attack
and they expect it everyday and so they expect to hear about Benghazi.
They expect to hear about the IRS so called scandal. You know, they expect
to hear about these sort of, you know, unanswered questions around
ObamaCare, and they expect to hear it about it in the way they want to hear
about it, as if they were still open-ended questions.


TAYLOR: Questions asked to the presidents, Ed, have already been

SCHULTZ: Did you think that Fox, Goldie, failed to make the president
look back in this interview? It seemed like O`Reilly was trying to corner
the president, instead of getting a real answer.

TAYLOR: You know, I think the president was well-prepared for him
this time and he was willing to do, maybe, what -- some of us may have
hoped that he would be willing to do early on. And maybe, you know, I`m
not going to second-guess, maybe, because I think that this was the
president who`s all about balance and he strikes it where he thinks he has
to. But this time, this time, he called out Fox News directly. He called
out Bill O`Reilly directly and I think that was an important move.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. I want to play a clip of Bill O`Reilly reading
viewer`s e-mail to the president. Here it is.


O`REILLY: Why you feel it`s necessary to fundamentally transform the
nation that has afforded you so much opportunity and success?

OBAMA: I don`t think we have to fundamentally transform the nation.

O`REILLY: But those are your words.

OBAMA: I think that what we have to do is make sure that here in
America, if you work hard, you can get ahead.


SCHULTZ: God, forbid if we get health care to people so they don`t
bankrupt or lose their lives.

Eric Boehler, your thoughts on that kind of approach in an interview.

BOEHLER: Well, I think they were hoping, maybe, to get, to rattle
Obama. It didn`t happen. I mean, there`s a reason his nickname is sort of
"No Drama Obama." He doesn`t produce those sparks.

What Fox did today was spent all day saying they kind of construe the
controversy where Obama was blaming Fox News for all his troubles and
things like that.

So regardless of what Obama says, they have a sit-down interview with
him, they are -- then, going to spend the next two or three days trying to
create some controversy or buzz, they`re going to show their viewers how
tough they were with Obama. Again, this is all just -- this is all --
within this bubble, I mean, there`s sort of stuck on this hamster wheel.
They just keep spinning around and around.


BOEHLER: And that`s what their viewers want as there`s no doubt about
it but, you know, it just increasingly has less impact on what is happening


BOEHLER: . in the country, in the world, and in politics today.

SCHULTZ: Goldie, what do you think of the twit that Hillary Clinton
sent out? And we should point that there`s a new CNN poll that shows that
Hillary Clinton is leading the 2016 Republican Presidential hopefuls. She
has a 20-point lead on Jeb Bush. Your reaction. And the twit, she must
feel like she`s on pretty solid ground.

TAYLOR: You know, I like Hillary Clinton but I`m in the coronations.
And so I`m running for a very spirited Democratic primarie and let`s see if
the best man or woman wins this primarie and say "What a recap for this
White House again." And so, I`ll put that aside.

On the other side of this thing, I don`t know if she was referring to
the president. I think she was referring to Peyton Manning who was getting
crashed off the steel (ph) last night.

SCHULTZ: I think she was, too. Yeah.

TAYLOR: And so I think that`s really what she was talking about. I
found the twit funny but I thought that she was again, talking about Peyton
Manning and not necessarily the president. A lot of people are finding
some part of their`s today, however.

SCHULTZ: All right. Eric Boehler, Goldie Taylor, good to have you
with us tonight on the Ed Show. Thanks so much for joining us.

Coming up, height dreams of the Keystone XL to punch out end (ph).
Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, tongue tied Donald Trump that
Donald is trying to give out fashion tips to the President of United


DONALD TRUMP, AUTHOR: I definitely he should have worn a tie. You
know, he is the President of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never thought of that.

TRUMP: Let him put on a tie. Bill was wearing a tie, not that he has
to follow Bill, but Bill was wearing a tie. He is the president. It`s a
formal position. I think he should wear a tie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What message is he sending by knot?

TRUMP: It`s sloppy. It`s not appropriate. It`s not presidential.


SCHULTZ: Trump should have learned to drop the neck tie talk along a
time ago.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you endorsed Governor Romney.

TRUMP: I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you in contact with him all the time?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you guys talk about?

TRUMP: Just general. I`ll tell you what, he has a stands on China
which is a country that just reaping our hard out. I mean we just do
nothing to protect ourselves that I really like. I don`t know where they
were made, but they were made some place. But they`re great.

Its ties, shirts, couplings, everything sold at Massey`s and they`re
doing great. Number one selling tie anywhere in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ties -- where the ties are made?

TRUMP: They have the world, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are beautiful ties. They are great ties.
The ties are made in where? China?

TRUMP: Ties are made China.


SCHULTZ: Donald Trump can`t handle politics or fashion individually.
He should never try mixing the two.

Donald Trump is just wining because the president won`t wear one of
his made in China ties. The Donald can gripe all he wants, but if he
thinks the president will fall for a wardrobe malfunction, he can keep on


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the
folks who take a shower after work.

The country is in a heated discussion about the future of energy
independence after our report from the state department was released on

The report showed the Keystone XL Pipeline would not substantially
worsen carbon pollution leaving an opening for President Obama to approve
the project.

The pipeline would carry 830,000 barrels of oil a day from Canada to
the Golf Coast. If the pipeline were not built, carbon heavy oil would
still be extracted from the same rate from the Alberta Forest and
transported through the middle of the country to refineries by rail and
truck, instead.

Here`s what Montana`s Former Governor Brian Schweitzer had to say
about it on my radio show on Friday.

I negotiated with Trans Canada to build a $160 million on ramp so that that
Bakken Oil in Montana and North Dakota, which has been doubling production
every year and will double again by next year, will stop being shipped on
rail. It`s not safe to send this crude oil all over America right to our
biggest cities on rail, and yet we haven`t had the pipeline to catch up.

SCHULTZ: For more than two years, environmentalists have protested
the project. Many Republicans and some Democrats, along with the oil
industry executive, support the pipeline because they say it creates jobs
and increases supplies from a friendly source of oil which is Canada.

What both groups, I think, need to realize is that the alternative of
shipping oil on railways or in trucks is extremely unsafe.

On December 30th, there was a very large train derailment near Castle
to North Dakota about 20 miles outside of Fargo.


SCHULTZ: Emergency and firefighting cruise are responding to a train
derailment involving a cargo train carrying crude oil. Of course in this
part of the country, the pipeline the XL Pipeline, is a big conversation.
People who are against the pipeline say that this is the safest way to
transport oil.


SCHULTZ: Proponents say that it won`t all be Canadian oil, that
there`ll be sweet crude from the Bakken Shale and will also be in the

Proponents say that it`s a safer way to transport oil. This does not
mean the country is going to be consuming more oil. Based on safety, I
think the president should give this project the stamp of approval. And
then environmental groups obviously think differently and so do the
majority of people on the left.

But this news flash, we`re not getting out of the oil business in
America. It runs our economy. Do we have climate change? Yes we do. But
the construction of this pipeline does not mean that we are going to
consume more as a country.

I`m looking at it from a safety aspect. I don`t want explosions in
small towns or any towns or any kind of train derailment carrying oil where
there are fewer federal inspectors than ever before. And also, the fact
that these rail cars are old and the infrastructure hasn`t been upgraded.

So a brand new pipeline, to me, makes sense. Michael Brune is the
executive director of the Sierra Club. His organization and many other
green groups are against this.

Michael, good to have you with us tonight, I appreciate your time.
Tell us, what`s the downside of this pipeline? Why should the president
say No to this?

to see you Ed.

We`re opposed to this pipeline because it would carry oil from the tar
sands in Alberta. And tar sand`s oil is more toxic, it`s more corrosive,
it`s more difficult to clean up, and it`s more carbon intensive than
conventional oil.

And this oil would come all the way from Alberta down through the US.
It doesn`t come to the US. It goes through the US. And most of it would
be exported. So what happens is that American families and American
farmers will bear all the risk and oil companies will get all the reward.

There`s a much better way to meet our energy needs that taking oil
from the tar sands.

SCHULTZ: Isn`t it safer to run oil through a pipeline than it is to
put it on rail cars and on trucks?

BRUNE: The safest thing to do with this oil is keep it in the ground.
You`re right Ed in saying .

SCHULTZ: Well that`s not going to happen.

BRUNE: . that transporting oil by -- well it can happen, it can
happen. That`s actually the point of this. But let me answer your
question directly. Transporting oil by rail, by train is not safe. It is
not safe and we should avoid it.

And we also, in the meantime, needs to upgrade our safety standards
for rail transport of all forms of oil. But the best thing that we need to
do is -- the thing that we need to do is three things, actually. One is to
improve the safety of transportation of oil. Two, to make sure that this
oil isn`t coming out of the tar sands. We shouldn`t make climate worse by
investing in a carbon intensive fuel source. And then finally, we have to
transition to the alternatives to dirty oil.

We already have advanced batteries. We already have electric vehicles
and plug-in hybrid vehicles that are growing dramatically. We`re not going
to get out of the oil business in 2014, but we can plan to get out of the
oil business as quickly as we can by investing in clean energy rather than
dirty fuels.

SCHULTZ: But as we all know that there will be sweet crude oil in
this pipeline and transporting that in a pipeline is a lot safer that
putting it on a rail. And that`s the proponents`, I think, biggest issue
here is that -- is that they want this for safety as much as anything else.

Now the tar sands, you`re right about that. It is toxic. That`s
going to put on the market no matter what. Your response to that.

BRUNE: Well, it won`t. And just look at the reality here, what we`ve
already seen because of delays in this pipeline is that foreign investment
in the tar sands has plummeted. The projected growth of tar sand`s
development has already been knocked down by more than a million barrels of
oil per day because of concerns that this pipeline won`t get built. And
because of similar unrest in Canada, Canadians don`t want pipelines going
through their territory either.

So what we`re already seeing is projected demand growth has gone from
six or seven million barrels of oil per day, down below six and now close
to five million barrels of oil per day simply because these pipelines are
being resisted, so there is a chance to keep the oil in ground and that`s
our focus.

SCHULTZ: OK, that`s the focus. But the reality of it is the best way
to transport oil in America is through pipeline especially the latest
technology of it. That`s my position on this.

This Bakken Shale oil isn`t going to go away. And it`s going to go to
market and it`s going to affect our energy. That doesn`t mean because
there`s a pipeline being built, that we are going to consume more as a
country. This is about transportation and safety, I think.

Michael, we`re going to have you back. We`re going to talk a lot
about this until the president makes his decision. I appreciate your time
tonight. We`ll do it again. Thanks so much.

That`s the Ed show, I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening Rev.


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