THE ED SHOW
February 6, 2014
Guest: EJ Dionne, Adam Green, Sandra Fluke, Jane Kleeb, Erich Pica, Keith
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: At 58 to 40 against a three-month extension of
unemployment benefits. A couple of votes short, can you believe it?
There are currently 1.7 million long-term unemployed Americans who have
lost their benefits in this country. We got nothing on the table for them
and make no mistake.
Senate Republicans have flat out abandoned these unemployed Americans.
Democrats agreed to what I thought was a horrible bipartisan budget that
has left the most needy among us out in the dark, in the cold, so to speak.
They promised to come back and fight in the New Year and this is the
result. President Obama and the Democrats trusted Republicans to do the
right thing and they did the wrong thing. Nothing.
This is not just Democrats who want an extension. There are numbers out
there that are staggering. And recent poll shows 58 percent of Americans
want a three-month extension of unemployment benefits.
Clearly, Republicans don`t give a damn about these people in our society.
Wasn`t it the president last week who asked business owners, "Can you step
up and help these folks?" How much more do you want the president to do?
You turn it over to the Republicans, you get no cooperation whatsoever.
We`re also trusting Republicans to the right thing on the debt ceiling.
Republicans are still planning to hold our nation hostage over the debt
limit. Such good citizens, aren`t they? But they are split over what the
demands are going to be.
Huffington Post reports, "Republicans will not use the Keystone XL Pipeline
or repealing Obamacare provisions as leverage to raise the debt limit." So
what`s going to happen?
Earlier today, House Speaker John Boehner says he`s got time to figure this
thing out. In reality? He`s got two more weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: We`re still looking for the pieces to
this puzzle but listen we do not want to default on our debt and we`re not
going to default on our debt. We`re in discussions with members about how
we can move ahead. We`ve got time to do this. We`re going to continue to
work out. No decisions. No decisions have been made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So we just haven`t figured out how we`re going to shaft the
American people yet. We haven`t figured out how we`re going to, you know,
maneuver around some hostage taking out there. We haven`t decided what we
really want. That`s what Boehner is.
Is it for the good of the country? No. The debt limit is all about trust.
In the past, we have trusted Republicans to raise the debt limit. All we
got was a bad credit downgrade.
Earlier today, it was Boehner who was throwing around the word "trust"?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOEHNER: Listen, there`s widespread doubt about whether this
administration can be trusted to enforce our laws and it`s going to be
difficult to move any immigration legislation until that changes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Almost unbelievable. To the man who brought this country a
government shutdown and a credit downgrade would talk about not trusting
President Obama. Give me a break.
If anything is fair to say that we can`t trust Boehner to get immigration
done either just like we can`t trust House Republicans to get a minimum
wage increase done as well.
Now, this is an issue that everyone wants addressed and fixed. America
wants an increase when it comes to minimum wage.
A recent poll shows a huge number, 91 percent of Democrats want a minimum
increase in this country. Overall, 71 percent of Americans wants this
Almost three-quarters of the American people want an increase in the
minimum wage. Over half Americans want an extension to unemployment
benefits. We can`t get it done. And they want to know why they`re not
liked in Washington?
I mean if you look at this way, these are groundswell numbers, groundswell
support for both these issues that are very important to income inequality
and working folks in America. Republicans are doing everything in their
power to block the will of the American people.
Now, how are they going to maneuver around these numbers in the midterm? I
do think down the road this year that Boehner is going to realize and he`s
going to have to send his caucus home with something. It might be minimum
wage. It doesn`t look like it`s going to be immigration reform. And the
reason why it`s not going to be immigration reform is because the folks
that would affect the most don`t do anything for the Republican vote.
Heck, they`re trying to suppress the vote in every place they possibly can.
They`re going after minorities, they`re going after elderly people, they`re
going after the young, voting rights, voting restrictions this is what
they`re all about. Why in the world would they do immigration before a
very crucial midterm? That`s not who they are. It`s not their crowd.
They`re all about power. They`re all about gerrymandering. They`re all
about making sure they`re right back doing the obstruction until they can
get rid of President Obama.
So, activism, we have a lot of activism going on right now such as the
pipeline is concerned. We have a lot of activism out there when it comes
to the environment.
I`ll tell you where the activism has to be. The activism has to be on the
unemployed in this country. The activism has to be on the vulture chart
and the wage disparity that`s taken place in America. But every time the
Democrats try to do something about it, it`s more roadblocks, more
roadblocks, more roadblocks. It`s a broken record, isn`t it? It`s the
Get your cellphones out I want to know what you think tonight`s question.
"Do you trust John Boehner or President Obama?" Text A for John Boehner,
Text B for President Obama to 67622. If this isn`t 100 percent, I don`t
know what will be. You can always go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. We`ll
bring you the results later on in the show.
Now, the Republicans over the weekend, they went off to this, you know,
secluded place in Cambridge, Maryland to figure out how they`re going to
talk to women, to figure out how they`re going to talk to the American
people, to figure out just what they can get away with when it comes to
And they come out talking about trust. I want the Democrats and
Progressives to talk about trust. Do you trust that they`re going to go
back to Washington and do something different?
Joining me tonight is E.J. Dionne of the Washington Post and also Adam
Green of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.
Gentlemen, good to you have you with us tonight. E.J., you first, your
reaction to Boehner saying that he doesn`t trust the president of the
United States. What kind of play is that?
E.J. DIONNE, WASHINGTON POST: I think that is a play to his base. I think
that`s what the Republicans want to hear and I think that`s what the Tea
Party wing of his caucus wants to hear.
And it`s really ironic because they`re saying they don`t trust the
president on immigration, they say he won`t enforce the law. At the same
time, they`re saying that the president is doing all these deportations,
his own constituency is telling him, "Mr. President, stop doing this." The
Obama Administration says, "No. I have to follow the law."
So he is doing the very thing on deportations against his own constituency
that the Republicans say they don`t believe he`ll do. They think he`ll
just break the law.
Now, I think in the long run, I haven`t given up on immigration reform, I
have to say. And I think one of the things the Republicans are staring at
is if you don`t get immigration reform, President Obama can`t just sit
there and continue with these deportations afterward, and I think there`s
going to be some pressure coming around the other way.
DIONNE: And I think there are a lot of Republicans in that caucus who
still want to do immigration reform.
SCHULTZ: Well, this idea that the president can`t be trusted because he
won`t enforce the law. We need to remind the American people here tonight
that it`s almost four-fold on the border when it comes to resources,
budgets, overtime, personnel and surveillance technology not to mention the
fences that have been put up there.
What is he not talking about, E.J., when he says that he`s not going to
enforce the law? The deportations that they`re doing are based on the law.
So Boehner once again gets of scott-free not being pressed by anybody.
These are facts. This is what we have done during the Obama years when it
comes to border security. How can he get away with it?
DIONNE: Well, I, you know, the answer is I don`t know the answer to that
question because he should be pressed on this for the very reason you say.
Obama is enforcing the law at some political cause to himself because he
doesn`t think he can do anything else.
I think this is a talking point that they are using as an excuse not to do
a thing .
DIONNE: . that`s favored by, you know, 55 to 65 percent of the American
people. And the only thing they can say is, "We do this but we don`t trust
Obama." And that works well enough with their own base but it shouldn`t
fly with everybody else.
SCHULTZ: Immigration reform would be I think a big boom for the Democrats.
Adam Green, 71 percent of the American people want an increase in the
minimum wage, how does this affect voters, how will this turn people coming
up in November, and how big of a talking scenario can be played out by
candidates on the campaign trail with this kind of number?
ADAM GREEN, CO-FOUNDER, PCCC: Great question. You know, there is a rising
economic populist tied in America, Ed, not just among Democratic voters but
as you say among the general electorate at large.
People want politicians that they can trust to fight for the little guy in
our economy. And the Democrats are really smart to press this issue and
right now Progressive candidates across the country are actively making
this a campaign issue with the minimum wage.
You know, just today, in Maine, a very competitive Senate Candidate named
Shenna Bellows had a petition delivery at a big media event calling on
Susan Collins, the Republicans Senator, to say that she`ll support raising
the minimum wage, the same in the Heartland in South Dakota where Rick
Weiland made an issue today.
Also this week, House candidates from Kelly Westlund in Wisconsin to Lee
Rogers in California to Tom Guild in Oklahoma .
GREEN: . to Daylin Leach right here in Pennsylvania. Across the country,
people are saying we`re going to make a campaign issue out of this, Ed.
And that is very smart politics for Democrats and Progressives in 2014.
SCHULTZ: See this unemployment extension is going to be gone by the
midterms. There`s just going to be a boat load of more people out there
are going to be unemployed and whether they`re going to lose faith or lose
hope or whatever and not engage remains to be seen.
But if you do something for workers, if you do something get disposable
income into the pockets of the American people, that`s going to, I think,
have an effect.
The Republicans are so out of touch with wage earners in this country.
They don`t realize what good favor they would have going home, E.J., if
they said, "You know what? We went to bat (ph) for you. We raise the
minimum wage to $10.10." It proves two things. Number one, I care about
your family, and number two, I was able to work with the other side." What
don`t they get about that?
DIONNE: Well, you know, historically, the Republicans did get that. You
did get a minimum wage increase under Bill Clinton because the Republican
leaders in Congress knew that this is a 70/30 issue. Most Americans across
the board except for a minority of the Republican Party think that people
ought to get at least close to a decent wage for a days work.
DIONNE: And I think there`s something else they`re going to have to start
looking at. Poll after poll has shown an all of these equality --
inequality issues. Democrats and Independents take the pro-equality
position and Republicans on a lot of these issues find themselves isolated.
And that`s not good if you`re going to win the election. Independents are
not by any means consistently liberal but on a lot of these equality
issues, they are very progressive. And that`s got to start playing in the
minds of Republican candidates and Republican consultants.
SCHULTZ: You know, when you take a look at what is unfolding for the
Republicans, I`m not sure what they`re going to run on. And the Democrats
if they can`t pounce on these, these populous economic issues, if they
can`t win the House with the way it`s set up right now and I know a lot of
things can change between now and November. I don`t know if they`re ever
going to win the House.
Adam, I want to talk to you about fund raising because this is a -- I think
a very interesting development. Priorities U.S.A action, Democrats`
biggest super PAC. They`re going to set out the midterms. They have
already announced that they`re backing Hillary Clinton, raising money for
Hillary, and -- but yet they`re not going to engage in the midterms.
I mean, I think this is disastrous. I think that it`s going to take all
hands on deck to win the House back. And I think that this is very
dangerous for this PAC to do this because it sends the message, "Hey, it`s
all about Hillary, it`s not about moving legislation forward."
I want your reaction to this. Isn`t it going to take all hands on deck
everybody getting after it to make it happen for the midterms?
GREEN: Well, it will take all hands on deck. And there is kind of a
culture problem in D.C. where it`s mostly about elections and not about
actually governing and in case of the Democrats governing progressively.
So to that point, I think you`re right. But at the end of the day, you
know, if Democrats are going to win on issues like the minimum wage and
these issues of importance of workers like you said.
We need to summon up people power. We need to have lots and lots of new
people involved in our democracy giving small dollar donations, actually
going into volunteer at offices. And if the big guys decide to help, that
will be a big bonus. But we can`t depend on them at the end of the day.
So they should be helpful .
SCHULTZ: I mean .
GREEN: . but we have to do some of these for ourselves.
SCHULTZ: . Priorities USA Action is making a statement to their donors,
you know. We only want Hillary. We`re only concentrating on this. We`re
really not concerned. Everybody knows how important the House is.
Everybody knows the obstruction that has taken place.
I mean I don`t know how you go out, you raise money and say, "Well, we`re
going to sit out the midterms because we think other people are doing a
pretty good job." There`s never enough players on the field to get this
thing done against this mammoth obstruction that we have seen. And I think
they are making a serious, serious mistake.
E.J Dionne and Adam Green, great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate
your time so much here on the Ed Show.
DIONNE: Good to be with you.
SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow and on Facebook.
We always want to know what you think.
Now, coming up, we continue this week`s big conversation on the Keystone XL
Pipeline. We`ll keep the discussion going as the president debates whether
the pipeline is best for this country when it comes to security and energy
Still ahead, women`s rights activist Sandra Fluke sets her political career
in motion. She joins us right here on the Ed Show. Coming up.
SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders here on the Ed Show. Social media you
can check us out on Twitter @edshow and you can find my radio show on
Sirius XM Channel 127, Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00 PM, and of
course you get my podcast atwegoted.com.
The Ed Show social media nation has decided very engaged and we are
reporting. Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The number three Trender, maker smart.
JOE HUDY, MARSHMALLOW CANNON MAKER: When I built extreme marshmallow
cannon I never thought I would get invited to show it at the White House
SCHULTZ: Joe Hudy was at the White House demonstrating his marshmallow
cannon for the president of United States?
HUDY: At 30 PSI, it normally shoots 176 feet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incoming.
HUDY: Three, two, one.
SCHULTZ: Boy, that sucker goes along way and pretty good.
The White House announces its first makers fair.
HUDY: The White House is going to host its first ever White House Maker
Fair later this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maker Fair the greatest show Intel on earth.
HUDY: So those people who want to make something and tweet it to the White
House using hashtag I Made This.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made it myself.
HUDY: Maybe you`ll get invited to things you never thought possible.
SCHULTZ: The number two Trender, create debate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ken Ham is the President and co-founder of Answers
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evolution isn`t an opinion it`s fact.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that is your opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can observe the age of the earth. They`re winding
you with nut science.
SCHULTZ: Pat Robertson is dismissing Ken Ham`s creation story.
PAT ROBERTSON, EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN LEADER: And we have skeletons of
dinosaurs. You go buy the book 165 million years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mama (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up.
ROBERTSON: To say that it all came about in 6,000 years it`s just none
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That doesn`t make sense.
ROBERTSON: God`s in charge of all of this, but we`ve got to be realistic.
This may make a joke of ourselves.
SCHULTZ: And today`s top Trender, Sandra Dee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politics in your future?
SANDRA FLUKE, WOMEN`S RIGHTS ACTIVITST: We`ll see, maybe someday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now and attorney and women`s activist Sandra Fluke is
running for office, hoping to land a Senate feet in Sacramento.
SCHULTZ: Sandra Fluke turns her sights towards a state Senate seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Fluke has been considering running for Congress in
She said I`m committed to continuing that fight in Sacramento.
FLUKE: And I`ve seen the impact that an individual state senator who can
have on the setting conversations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And joining us tonight is Sandra Fluke, Social Justice Attorney
and Candidate for California State Senate.
Sandra, congratulations, it`s always a big decision when you decide to go
into public service. You were cast on the scene after Rush Limbaugh took
after you for three days on the radio which is actually seriously affected
the radio industry. You of course were trying to testify in front Darrell
Issa`s committee when it came to woman`s healthcare issues.
So here you are. I think Limbaugh actually did you favor by putting you
out there like that. I hope you understand where I`m going on that. I
mean exposure is very important. People now look to you in a big, big way
for leadership on some very pertinent issues.
FLUKE: Thank you. I agree with you.
SCHULTZ: Why would you choose ..
FLUKE: I agree with you that exposure is important because it let us shine
a light on important issues that we need to be talking about.
SCHULTZ: What made you go down this road? I know you`re thinking about a
Congressional run, it turns out to be a state senate run in California.
FLUKE: I look really seriously at what decision I should make here and
ultimately the only that matter to me is where can I go and get progressive
change done. Make things happen for the constituents here in Los Angeles
and I decided that Sacramento is the best place for me to do that.
SCHULTZ: What are the main reasons you`re choosing to run for office? I
mean what has motivated you? Is this been in your heart for a long time?
FLUKE: You know, public service has been in my heart for a long time.
I`ve always been a public interest attorney. I`ve fought for social
justice my entire career and for me it`s about what`s the best way to
So, right now, the best way to accomplish fighting for my community and the
people I care about is to do it by running for office and to -- by running
for office in Sacramento.
And I want to say .
SCHULTZ: How do you .
FLUKE: . one more thing about why I chose Sacramento. I think that around
the country people don`t always realize how important state legislation is.
I know you know this because you were such a champion of economic justice.
But we can accomplish a lot in state legislatures and unfortunately right
now Congress is so just dead locked that we have to look to the state
legislatures as a way to cause the progressive change that we`re all
fighting for. So, in California, we have an opportunity to set that agenda
and be a model for the rest of the country.
SCHULTZ: You know, Sandra, a lot of people in this country have followed
your activism, have followed your lead on a number of issues, you have
become really the focal point for a lot of people, they pay attention to
what you`re saying. Has this made it a calling for you? Is this -- you
feel obligated to jump into public service?
FLUKE: Well, I take very seriously the fact that hundreds of people around
this country have asked me to run for office, and I am honored by the kind
of confidence, and support, and trust that that takes to ask me to do that.
So I looked really, really closely at that in this decision and said, "What
can I do that will make all of those people proud?" And I decided that
what I can do make them proud is to go to Sacramento and fight for the kind
of change that this country deserves, to bring a fresh perspective there
and show them what a new generation of progressive leadership looks like.
SCHULTZ: Is this a career move, or is this -- do you want to go surf for a
while and see what can be -- is this a career move? There`s a lot of
people that get into public service that do 20, 30 years. What are you
FLUKE: I launched my campaign yesterday. I think I want to run for the
state Senate and win that office and at every point in my career it`s
always about, how can I most effectively fight for my community. Right
now, I think that`s in the state Senate in Sacramento. Tomorrow after this
Senate race is over, we`ll decide then.
SCHULTZ: Well, Sandra whether you like it or not you`re a national figure.
People in the political arena know who you are and they admire your
strength and .
FLUKE: Well, thank you.
SCHULTZ: . what you`ve done. So since you won`t answer the career
question, I`m going to answer it for you here tonight on the Ed Show.
What I can think you could do, you can go to Sacramento work on a state
level, you can make a difference and someday there`s going to be that U.S
Senate seat calling because Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, nobody`s
around forever. You`d be perfect for California, that`s just my quick take
on all of these.
FLUKE: Thank you very much, but I certainly hope that we have Senators
Boxer and Feinstein for a long time to come.
SCHULTZ: I know you do. Sandra, thank you so much. I appreciate your
time being on the Ed Show tonight. Good luck to you.
FLUKE: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, you know, I just think that`s great story who is
someone willing to jump in.
Coming up, the U.S. Department of State responds after environmentalist
attack the review of the Keystone XL Pipeline in the state department
report. The conversation continues in the Rapid Response Panel coming up.
Plus, Paul Ryan takes on the role of Mr. Reasonable in tonight`s
Pretenders. But next, I`m answering your questions next on Ask Ed Live on
MSNBC on the Ed Show. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show, love hearing from our viewers. I
appreciate the questions tonight in our Ask Ed segment.
First question comes from Bill. "Do you think all the hype over Hillary
2016 will hurt her in the election?"
Let me just say this. I think Hillary Clinton is talent abound, experience
unbelievable, political savvy, no question about it, she is the best.
But I do believe, and this is not negative, there will be a liberal
progressive vetting process of the candidate whoever it maybe, because the
intense issues -- the issues today I think are much more intense than they
were in 2008 and in 2012 the pressure mounts. And I think that Hillary
Clinton is going to have to reintroduce herself to the liberal community to
get that groundswell support. That`s just my take on it.
Next question is coming from Ann. "When an American`s job is moved to
China and they can only find a minimum wage job, why are they called lazy?"
Well, the Republicans are going to call you everyday under the sun to make
sure that they don`t have to help you out at all. When are the American
people going to realize that they don`t care about workers, they only care
about profit, and their voting record, and their lock of votes on issues
like helping workers? Speaks volumes.
Stick around, Rapid Response is next right here on the Ed Show. We`ll be
SUE HERERA, CNCB ANCHOR: I`m Sue Herera with your CNBC Market Wrap.
Stocks rally on optimism about employment and earnings. The DOW jumps 188
points, the S and P added 21, the NASDAQ up 45.
Unemployment lines were just a little shorter last week. Filings for first
time jobless benefits spell by 20,000 which was more than expected. The
numbers come one day before the government`s closely watch payroll data.
And LinkedIn share is sliding after hours. The company`s earnings and
revenue did beat estimates, but its overall 2014 outlook disappointed.
And that`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The XL Pipeline is a big conversation. People who are against
the pipeline say that this is the safest way to transport oil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A major fire has erupted after a train carrying crude
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tank cars filled with oil exploded in the center of a
small town in Quebec.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officials say the smoke from the burning oil is toxic.
SCHULTZ: We`ve seen train derailments and explosions.
Folks, what I`m most concerned about here, in this debate, is safety.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These types of oil train accidents are raising from
serious safety concerns.
SCHULTZ: There is an oil boom. The current infrastructure wasn`t built to
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oil tankers, all kinds of trains that go by here.
And I`ve always worried about that, always.
SCHULTZ: But we have a responsibility to adapt to the oil that`s coming
out of our ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for staying with us tonight.
At this point, I think you know exactly where I stand when it comes to the
Now, I`m not going to back down and I`m not going to apologize. I think I
am well-grounded in my support for this. And I have brought on both sides,
both on radio and on TV, and I know I`ve made a lot of liberals very angry,
but now is the time to have the debate because the 30-day public comment
period on the Keystone XL opened yesterday and it`s going to run until
Now, the review now focuses on whether the proposed pipeline serves the
national interest of this country, security and energy independence.
This is a democracy. It`s a democracy at work, folks. Make your voice
heard. Speak out. Call your representative. Do what you got to do.
Over the past week, we`ve made it clear where I stand. I knew when I took
this position on this issue that I would raise my brows on the left, lose
some friends, life goes on.
But let`s be clear about something. Having an independent stands on an
issue doesn`t make me any less of an American or any less of a liberal. I
care about the environment and I believe that we have a moral obligation to
live behind a better planet for future generation. So how do I jive the
two? I`ll tell you. I always come out swinging against large corporations
including big oil who put profit before people. I do not have any money
invested in this fight. Got it? I have no oil stocks. I have no up or
gain at all financially on this. I believe in pursuing the alternative
green energy like solar and wind power which creates American jobs which we
talk about all the time on this program. We`re the activists for that.
But that transition is going to take time, and I`m approaching this, I
believe, as a realist because like it or not, oil is still the major driver
of our economy. We want to become less dependent. We want to become more
independent on the globe when it comes to oil. Oil isn`t going anywhere
for a long time.
Tonight, look where am I at. I`m broadcasting from the North Country. And
in this part of the United States, I`m not sitting in Washington or in New
York City. I`m in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. Energy is just as important
here, but it`s just 400 miles from the Bakken Shale where they`re producing
more than a million barrels of oil a day. I see the trains carrying crude
everyday. And I wonder, "What the heck? How is that going to get work
out?" We`re putting a load on these trains.
It is the first and foremost, in my world, that I think we got to be
concerned about safety. Maybe it`s the pilot in me. I don`t know.
Because of these delays in construction of the XL Pipeline, North Dakota`s
top oil regulator now estimates up to 90 percent of the states oil could be
moved by rail this year.
Now, we`re talking 80 to 100 car trains carrying crude. Tragically, rail
accidents, they`re not rare. In fact, more oil was spilled in 2013 in the
United States rail incidents than in the past four decades combined.
That`s a number. You can`t deny it. Don`t need any study or anybody to
"You have to believe. This is an absolute."
Now, the total was over 1.1 million gallons. Now, those numbers don`t
include incidents up with Canada. Last summer, a 72-car freight train
carry a Bakken crude derailed in Quebec. 1.5 million gallons went into a
nearby river affecting the local community. 47 people were killed and at
least 30 buildings roughly, half of the downtown area burned to the ground.
The devastation looked more like a war zone.
Just two months ago, a train carrying crude derailed not far from our home.
The fiery explosions are castled in North Dakota where a reminder of the
danger oil shipments post everyday going through communities in America.
Want to load them up?
OK, on Monday, here we go, 12,000 gallons of crude oil leaked from a
Canadian Pacific Railway train in the State of Minnesota. The Minnesota
EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, the states says that their -- there`s
no plans to clean it up.
Derailments have happened from rural Alabama to urban Philadelphia. Last
month, the National Transportation Safety Board warned, warned this country
that a major loss of life could result from increased use of trains to
transport large amounts of oil.
Bottom line, if we have trains running through your town, in your city, you
could be at risk and if you should be playing -- paying very close
attention to this debate and conversation.
The Keystone XL Pipeline would bring oil from Western Canada to the Gulf
Coast with an onramp from the Bakken Shale. And I`m not here to debate
whether or not the oil should come out of the ground, you know. Now, the
way I see it, there`s no doubt about it. I mean, it`s going to be coming
out of the ground. The Canadians are going to get it moved.
We need the pipeline infrastructure for our safety. These pipelines are
lifelines as I see it. But to be fair, I always want to bring on both
sides to this discussion. It is big public debate that is going on.
Joining me now for our Rapid Response Panel, Erich Pica, he is the
President of Friends of the Earth. And also with us tonight is Jane Kleeb,
she is the Director of Bold Nebraska. Great to have both of you with us.
Jane, I want to ask you first.
JANE KLEEB, DIRECTOR, BOLD NEBRASKA: Thanks Ed.
SCHULTZ: Why are you against the pipeline -- and you bet. What -- give us
your take on why this is not a good move if it`s approved by the United
KLEEB: Yeah. So, there`s a couple of reasons why. And we work with
farmers and ranchers, not only in Nebraska, but in all states that could
potentially be affected. And they don`t think that a foreign corporation
should be able to use eminent domain on American land owners. You might
think it`s fine for Canadian company to do that, but what about tomorrow if
it`s China or Saudi Arabia or Venezuela? And so, it really sets up a
really bad precedence, and what happened to no eminent domain for private
This is not a common carrier pipeline. And while you did a great intro on
all the awful accident that are happening on train, you left out all the
accidents that are happening on pipelines. A bunch of families in
Mayflower, Arkansas had to give up their homes over 30. 250 families on
Kalamazoo Tar Sands Pipeline had to give up their homes. And so, it`s not
oil pipeline versus train, it`s -- how do we make both modes of
And I would tell you, TransCanada is not a safe company. They just had a
gas pipeline explode. Their pipeline Keystone one had to be shut down by
FIMSA under corrective action order. They didn`t put these 57 special
conditions in place. FIMSA had to put that on top of TransCanada because
they were so worried about their construction practices. And so, if you`re
talking about safety, we should be talking about TransCanada`s safety
SCHULTZ: Well, it is true Jane that the pipeline is the safest
transportation, it`s the most cost efficient, and it is the safest. And we
have seen the numbers go through the roof when it comes to trains because
we`re pushing more oil out of the ground here in the United States.
KLEEB: Ed, but you`re not being fair about those numbers.
SCHULTZ: OK. Tell me where I`m not being fair.
KLEEB: You`re not being fair about those numbers because -- this is where
you`re not being fair. When a train spills, it trains -- it spills much
less liquid than when a pipeline ruptures. And both are dangerous. And
will tell you. When a family experiences an oil spill, they don`t think to
themselves, "goddamn that train, or goddamn that pipeline." They think,
"My land was just destroyed. My water is not polluted."
And so, we as country had to get serious about putting money into upgrading
infrastructure whether that`s train or pipeline. And if you`re concerned
about American oil getting to the market, I am, the Keystone XL is not the
solution. We`re lucky if we`re going to get 10 percent American oil on
that pipeline. That is not the solution we`re looking for. And I will
tell you, a plot pipeline in Nebraska used to carry American oil. It now
carries Canadian`s Tar Sands. Canadian Tar Sands are blocking out small
American oil producers. And so, if you care about American oil, you should
want to stop Tar Sands.
SCHULTZ: Well, we`re bringing in oil from Venezuela that arguably is just
as bad as the oil coming out of the ground for Tar Sands. I mean, that`s a
fact. And also, oil from Nigeria. So it`s not like we`re bringing in
crude oil that is absolutely clean as the Bakken Shale. The fact is up to.
KLEEB: So why bring in more?
SCHULTZ: . 15 percent of that oil.
KLEEB: So why bring in more?
SCHULTZ: Because -- we`ll first of all, energy independence and security
is a big deal. We didn`t go into Libya.
KLEEB: That`s not our oil Ed.
SCHULTZ: We didn`t go into Egypt.
KLEEB: That`s not our oil.
SCHULTZ: We`re not -- no, it is -- OK. All right. You asked me, this is
where I stand on it. I believe that this country has got to have energy
independence. I believe that this country is headed in the right
direction. I believe this is a safer mechanism. It`s proven. You say the
goddamn land, I say the goddamn 47 people that lost their lives in Canada
because you have got these trains going through major metropolitan areas
which is horribly dangerous and there could be a missive loss of life.
Now, if you want to contest the National Transportation Board who has said
that we are on the verge of a major disaster if we continue down this road,
I happen to take that seriously. OK. And I appreciate your precession.
KLEEB: Well, Ed, and I think.
SCHULTZ: Now, let`s go to Erich.
KLEEB: . there is a property rights of farmers and ranchers. And I think
SCHULTZ: Well, but conservatives are all over.
KLEEB: . a shame but you`re (inaudible) one corporation that is an
SCHULTZ: . conservatives are all over property rights.
KLEEB: . (inaudible) that`s fine.
SCHULTZ: Conservatives are all over property rights and they`re for these
ERICH PICA, FRIENDS OF THE EARTH: OK.
SCHULTZ: So, you can have it. Erich, I want to ask you.
SCHULTZ: Do you think that the State Department report was credible?
PICA: No. Look, we`ve been doing some investigations into the conflicts
of interest. And we have discovered that the contractor lied on their form
saying that they had -- that they done no business with TransCanada over
the last three years. And that`s just patently fault. And so, this is not
the first time that this has occurred at the State Department. They had
that throughout the previous environmental impact statement. This is the
second time. And in fact, the inspector general.
PICA: . is currently investigating how, you know, what actually happened
with this contractor in the State Department.
SCHULTZ: All right. We want to get to the bottom of this. So we ask the
State Department today for a response because that same point was brought
out by an activist on this program last night. And an environmentalist
came on the program and said that the study was bogus.
And so, we ask the State Department and they said "To assist in preparing
the SEIS for the proposed Keystone XL Pipeline project, the Department of
State retained a third-party contractor that was selected using very
rigorous conflict of interest screening guidelines. We feel confident that
there are no issues related to this contractor and that we have followed
the procedures that we have developed to avoid conflict of interest or any
connection between the contractor and the applicant."
What`s your response to that?
PICA: Look, we`ve heard this before from the State Department. The fact
is, there`s an inspector general investigation going into these allegations
and I find it quite presumptuous that the State Department would release a
report without having this inspector general investigation completed,
because this is about conflicts of interest in the public trust.
Right now, there isn`t.
PICA: . a public trust within the State Department. I mean, look,
TransCanada has lobbied -- or I`m sorry, ERM has lobbied with the Western
Energy Alliance, the American Fuel and Petroleum Manufacture, and the
Louisiana Mid-continent, Western States Petroleum Association, American
These are all groups that have advocated for the Keystone XL Pipeline. And
to me, demonstrate a clear conflict of interest. That`s not even counting
PICA: . that they have been in contracts with TransCanada in the last
three years. They failed to disclosed.
SCHULTZ: All right.
PICA: . and so, they`ve lied on the form. How do we know they`re not
lying in their form?
SCHULTZ: We will stay on the story. I`m out of time. Erich, I appreciate
your time. Jane, I appreciate your time. We`ll stay on the story. We`re
going to get a hold of the inspector general and find out if that is going
on. And we`ll continue our conversation on the Ed Show.
Tomorrow night, Former Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer will join us.
Coming up, 12,000 gallons of crude oil spilled in Minnesota and nobody is
playing into that. Congressman Keith Ellison will join me about the
potential impacts ahead. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, checkmate. Republican leaders
McConnell and Boehner are getting a fact check from one of their own. The
new report from the Congressional Budget Office is getting some good old
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOEHNER: Every year where I go, people are wondering why there`s less
opportunity today than it used to be. Well, I think this week, we got a
report from the Congressional Budget Office that reminded of us of one big
reason and that`s the president`s health care law.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) MINORITY LEADER: The CBL report is certainly
not pretty if you`re interested in creating jobs in America. As we all
know, they estimate up to $2 million -- 2 million fewer jobs will be
created as a result of ObamaCare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Not so fast. Paul Ryan is calling out his own party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: Just to understand this, it`s not that
employers are laying people off. It`s that people aren`t working in the
workforce, aren`t supplying labor to the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs in
2024 and as a result that lower workforce participation right, that less
labor supplied lowers economic growth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that`s right Mr. Chairman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You mean you just don`t have to work two jobs to get health care
in America anymore? You know the party`s in trouble when Paul Ryan is the
most reasonable Republican in the room. ObamaCare isn`t killing jobs.
It`s providing more options for retirees and families. If Republican
leaders believe that they can tank a good law, they can keep on pretending.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work.
More oil is being moved by U.S. railroads and ever before. 12,000 gallons
of crude oil leak from a Canadian Pacific Railway train traveling through
Minnesota just on Monday. Oil dripping along the tracks for 68 miles.
Officials say that there`s no major clean up effort that`s planned.
Now, if the spill was happening in a more populated area, I really do think
there`d be a mess of public outcry about this. The Association of American
Railroads says, in 2008, U.S. class one railroads carried just 9,500
carloads of crude oil. In 2012, they carried nearly 234,000 carloads.
Estimates show, there was around 400,000 carloads in 2013.
Federal regulators recently reported more oil spilled from railcars in 2013
than in the last four decades combined. That`s a numbers. It`s an
Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota joins me tonight and talk about
this. Keith, good to have you with us. I know that you`re introducing
some legislation to deal with some things, but, who should be held
responsible for spills like this on Monday and how can we just a state --
any state say, "Well, we`re not going to clean it up." What`s going on
REP. KEITH ELLISON, (D) MINNESOTA: Well, the oil producer in their
transportation in the rail lines (ph) should be responsible for the clean
up and for any in oil and affects -- that harm or affect the public.
That`s just being responsible. The fact to the matter is the bill that
Bernie Sanders and I are going to introduce would say that we should --
we`re going to take away the ability of companies (ph) to write-off their
taxes because of clean up. So, that would make them.
ELLISON: . perhaps a little bit more incentivize to do the right thing.
SCHULTZ: What`s the role of the EPA in Congress on this? Where`s the over
side in the safety? Is there enough?
ELLISON: No way. There`s not -- and not nearly enough. There`s very
precious little regulation on this issue. And I can tell you this, you
know, the companies are saying, well, the oil, the 12,000 gallons was
spilled over a long distance. We can`t do anything. We don`t need to.
Well, how do we know that? How do we know it`s not going to affect ground
water? How do we know it`s not going to make a more flammable situation?
What`s the cumulative effect of the spills given that the amount of cars
has been increasing? The EPA needs to investigate this to look out for the
health and safety of everyone who lives and around these spills.
SCHULTZ: And finally Congressman, is it true that we have fewer federal
regulators and inspectors in dealing with rail in this country?
ELLISON: Well, you know what, yes. That`s the sum total of trying to
shrink government to the size we can drown in the bathtub. I mean, it`s --
when you say you want small government, that means you need -- you want
small government inspection which in some cases, you may want to change
your mind. In Quebec for example, because of a spill explosion, you know,
about nearly 50 people lost their lives, we need to do something before we
get a catastrophic event. That will be too late.
SCHULTZ: All right. Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota. Thanks for
your time tonight. I appreciate it.
In our programming reminder, tomorrow night on this program, we`ll have
Former Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer talking about this issue and more
discussion on the XL Pipeline.
That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening Rev.
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