updated 3/12/2014 11:09:48 AM ET 2014-03-12T15:09:48

THE ED SHOW
March 11, 2014

Guests: Bernie Sanders, Wendell Potter, David Corn

ED SCHULTZ, MNSBC HOST: Welcome to the Ed Show live from New York.

Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSS GIRLING, CEO, TRANSCANADA: They demand for oil in the United States
is what`s going to drive this process.

ALEX POURBAIX, EXEC. VICE PRES. TRANSCANADA: The world is not going to
consume less oil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Keystone XL would not have a significant
environmental impact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. This is the Great White North, OK, on the map.

GIRLING: The emissions will be what the emissions will be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our exceeding levels recorded in the past millions of
years.

GIRLING: It has become a political pawn if you will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is going to be exactly like with a chess.

GIRLING: The fact that it has become this political thing. This is very
concerning to me.

BARACK OBAMA, 44TH AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We`ve got
to discover and produce cleaner, renewable sources of energy and also
produce less carbon pollution.

GIRLING: The emissions will be what the emissions will be.

POURBAIX: This issue, it is nothing but a red herring.

GIRLING: We, as a company, don`t normally -- we don`t have a Plan B.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us folks. Thanks for watching.

Don`t you get kind of little frustrated and irritated when somebody says
something to you and, you know, well that`s not 100 percent true. We`re
about there right now as the argument continues over the pipeline.

In fact, in the 11th hour, TransCanada I think is making an aggressive push
for the Keystone XL Pipeline. They`re pulling out all stops.

On Monday, they had a front office dude, a TransCanada Vice President Alex
Pourbaix. He is in charge of development with the corporation. He wrote
an op-ed countering all the opponents` claims on the pipeline.

Now, he claims tar sands oil will not be exported, that`s right. He says
that it`s not going to be exported. Well, where is it coming from? It`s
coming from Canada to the United States. Is that not an export or do they
totally own us?

And what kind of oil are we talking about? He was quoted as saying, "The
reality, as TransCanada Corporation CEO Russ Girling has said . " he`s
quoting the boss now, ". is not a drop of oil transported through Keystone
would be exported . period."

So what he`s saying is that everything that comes through the pipeline
isn`t going to be exported. It`s pretty bold claim. That`s like saying,
"Well, actually we`re going to be exporting water although we`re going to
be putting oil in the pipeline." What is it, dude?

They`re desperate. They`re feeling the heat. They`re afraid that
President Obama is going to say no to this.

Pourbaix addressed some environmental concerns by pointing to the State
Department report. Now, think about this, they`re using the State
Department report as some of the best ammunition out there to get this
approved.

He says, "With input from more than two dozen state and federal agencies.
The environmental and market issues have been exhaustively reviewed and
concerns debunked."

Really? Environmental concerns have been debunked? They`re quoting the
State Department report which a lot of Americans think is still flawed.

Now, on the site, the State Department report in two additional areas.
This is what he`s talking about.

First, he says the Keystone XL will not affect the demand for heavy crude.
Think about that. It won`t affect the demand for heavy crude. Well, then
why send it over American land if it`s not going to be marketly based?

Pourbaix claims tar sands oil production trends downward on carbon
intensity. Now, you know what I meant when I started this program saying,
"Do you ever hear somebody say something that nuts totally 100 percent?"

I have heard from three different scientists, geologists that say that the
tar sands oil is far more toxic than anything else that is being refined on
the face of the earth. So who`s telling the truth? Doggone it. We`re
back to that thing I was talking about last week. You`re going to find
them over here, you`re going to find them over there, give me some
absolutes. Who`s telling the truth here?

Pourbaix never addressed the risk to the Ogallala Aquifer, never talked
about this in his statement, the risk that American landowners are going to
have. He also in his statement never brings up the issue of eminent domain
and constitutional rights right there in the heart of the country, the
Bread Basket America ain`t sold on this.

He just claims that the State Department report has debunked environmental
concerns. I`ve debunked environmental concerns. What`s the difference
between me saying that and some corporate exec in the front office of an
oil company telling you, "Well, it`s debunked environmental concerns."?

I think it`s hard to argue with images like this in Mayflower, Arkansas.
You see when pipelines burst, some real bad stuff happens. It is an impact
on the environment and the community. It is devastating.

No matter how safe TransCanada claims the pipeline will be there is no way
they can guarantee that there won`t be a spill. It is more than possible.
It is an absolute. There will be spills and there will be damage.

Pourbaix also doesn`t mention TransCanada`s shaky record on pipeline
safety. Hold it right there. We haven`t talked enough about this but
they`re having quite the conversation about TransCanada north of the
border.

You see in late 2012, a whistleblower, someone who wanted to tell somebody
something stepped forward alleged TransCanada was using substandard welding
practices and not properly inspecting their pipelines? Wow. That`s a heck
of a claim and these folks want to put a pipe right through our land?

Here`s more on this story from the Canadian broadcasting company. Check it
out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANA SWAIN, CBC NEWS REPORTER: Pipeline operators like TransCanada are
supposed to hire their own inspectors during construction. It`s to make
sure that contractor doesn`t put pressure on the inspector to sign off on
work that`s not up to code.

Following the rules can mean slowed construction and inflated budget but
they`re designed to keep Canadian safe. If those pipes rupture, it could
lead to spills or even explosions.

EVAN VOKES, FORMER TRANSCANADA EMPLOYEE: It`s safety over the long term of
the pipeline

SWAIN: Meet Evan Boat, an engineer who used to work at TransCanada`s head
office in downtown Calgary. Now, he`s a whistleblower and speaking only on
camera to CBC News alleging TransCanada didn`t always follow the rules
around the inspections.

VOKES: They just asked for the company to do the right thing and to allow
the engineering to be the engineering. It absolutely matters because we
don`t know what the long term risks are. We have to control the ones that
we can during construction.

SWAIN: Now, after examining the evidence. Vokes brought the NEB says
TransCanada has admitted many of the allegations of regulatory non-
compliance identified by the Complainant were verified by TransCanada`s
internal audit.

The NEB said the problems don`t pose an immediate risk to public safety.
TransCanada wouldn`t agree to an interview but in a statement said, "It now
hires these inspectors directly and believes any problems were caught
through routine quality control processes before any pipes were turned on.

Evan Vokes isn`t convinced everything`s been caught.

VOKES: But the consequence is so deadly high. You know, like when it does
come around, it`s bad.

SWAIN: Vokes says he`s growing concern led to angry outburst in company
meetings. He was put on stress leave and then fired by TransCanada earlier
this year, but not before contacting the National Energy Board with his
concerns.

Diana Swain, CBC News Toronto.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: They got some liberal media up north don`t they? Did you catch
that non-compliance? You mean, we`re dealing with less than honest brokers
here? Bottom line here is the Canadian National Energy Board just
completed an audit on the whistleblower`s allegations. The Toronto Star
reporting the board found TransCanada non-compliant, not at one, two or
three but four areas. Here is the list.

Bottom line here is hazard identification. They are not compliant.
According to the Canadian Energy Board, there are risk assessment and
control. Risk assessment, does that mean they`ll just put the pipe
anywhere they want and not worry about it? They also have deficiencies and
operational control, upset or abnormal operating conditions and also
inspection, measurement and monitoring, and management review.

You want your pipe inspected down there in Nebraska if this goes through?
Do you want measurement and monitoring consistent and management review?
Who`s the oversight in all of this once it`s in the ground? Do you want to
take that risk? The report does say -- the report does say that
TransCanada has taken action to correct these issues all after the fact.

Bottom line here folks is that I don`t think America should be taking this
risk. To put it over the aquifer which affects how many states in our rich
tradition of being able to produce food in this country? Remember,
remember, remember if there is a leak in the pipeline over the aquifer it
is irreversible damage and nobody from the front office of the oil
companies is willing to say that I`m wrong on that. We`re not dealing with
honest brokers, their words meant than awful lot as of late.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think tonight`s question.
"Do you trust TransCanada to be honest brokers?" Text A for Yes, text B
for No to 67622, you can always go to you our blog @ed.msnbc.com. We`ll
bring you the results later on in the show.

For more, I want to bring in Bernie Sanders Senator from Vermont. Senator,
good to have you with us tonight.

I know your position on this, but I want your thoughts on TransCanada using
the State Department bullet points and report to make their case for the
pipeline. What are your thoughts on that?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well, I think it`s an outrage. I think
you have raised very important points about the irreversibility of the
kinds of damage that we fear could happen.

If there is a major oil spill into an aquifer at a time when we have real
water problems in America, this could be an unmitigated disaster. But
there is another issue out there, Ed, that is even broader and I think more
significant and that is that the scientific community has been extremely
clear. Climate change is real. Climate change is caused by man-made
activities. Climate change with or without oil leaks is already causing
massive damage in our country and around the world in terms of drought, in
terms of flooding, in terms of wildfire, in terms of extreme weather
disturbances.

In my view, we have a moral obligation, our generation does, not to leave
the planet for our children and grandchildren in an unhabitable way.

SCHULTZ: Totally agree. And that really is the fundamental issue here.
What kind of -- what are we doing with the planet and what are we leaving
for the next generation.

SANDERS: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: And if there is a terrible mishap, can we reverse it and the
answer is no.

SANDERS: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: Senator, last night, you were part of this, you held an all-night
even with other Senate Democrats to discuss climate change.

Now, Mitch McConnell took sometime to criticize you and the rest. Here it
is. I want to play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) MINORITY LEADER: There`s a depression in
Appalachia, an absolute depression. Families are losing work because of
government attacks on the coal industry. Communities are hurting.

And tonight, you`re going to hear 30-hours of excuses from a group of
people who think that`s OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Senator, your response to that.

SANDERS: I mean, he`s wrong in so many ways. The reason that the coal
industry is in decline is that electric companies now have found a cheaper
source of fuel in terms of gas. But the more important point where he is
wrong is not only that we have a moral imperative to transform our energy
system away from fossil fuels and greenhouse emissions. If we are smart,
if we use the American ingenuity that we know we have, we can create huge
numbers of new jobs in terms of energy efficiency and weatherization all
over this country and .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: . people living in buildings and in homes. Well, he is just
going right through the walls and the roots. We can create jobs in solar,
in wind, in geothermal, in many other areas. We can lead the world. Help
China, help India, help Russia moving that direction. So .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: . McConnell is wrong in a number of ways.

SCHULTZ: Senator, not to be critical but I think this is a very profound
point. There has not been a uniformed statement from the Senate Democrats
on the pipeline yet. I think it`s great that last night that there was
this, you know, presentation on the Senate floor, it happens very seldom in
American history, but how can any senator try to tackle climate change
while supporting the pipeline? And why don`t the Senate Democrats who were
against the pipeline send a clear message to the president, "We do not want
this. You need to set the bar here that we say no to the oil companies."
Your thoughts, Senator.

SANDERS: I agree. And some of us have done just that. You know, the
president has -- I know in his heart understands the significance of
climate change and the need to transform our energy system. He`s put a
whole lot of money into weatherization and energy efficient projects.

But I think that people all over this country will really be scratching
their heads if the president approves a pipeline which encourages the
dirtiest form -- excavation of the dirtiest form of oil which kind of
continues to promote fossil fuels. It will be a real contradiction in
terms of everything that he has said.

So I am working with a number of Democrats when you saw last night .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: . was maybe a first step, but we`re going to do everything we can
to kill this pipeline, to transform our energy system and get the president
onboard.

SCHULTZ: Senator, does that mean that there is going to be a unified
statement from the 28 and maybe more Democrats that stepped up?

SANDERS: Well, you know, you got 55 people in the caucus, Ed. Now, I
can`t guarantee that every one of them will be onboard, but a number of us
will.

SCHULTZ: Senator, would you consider going to Nebraska?

SANDERS: To take a look at the impacts of a leak .

SCHULTZ: Yes, sir.

SANDERS: . on their aquifer? Yeah, I would. Yeah.

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, good to have you with us tonight on the
Ed Show. I appreciate it very much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter tonight @EdShow and on Facebook. We
always want to know what you think.

Coming up, bad trade deals are threatening to decimate U.S. manufacturing
in the industry which is known as Good Old Steal. I sat down with a
frustrated few workers in Lorain, Ohio in the first part of our new series,
"Fighting Chance: American Steal".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m fighting, man, like everybody else in this room.
Enough is enough. We deserve better, we are better. Let`s act like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: But first, why Conservatives are dusting off their favorite
ObamaCare lies? Wendell Potter weighs in

Trenders coming up next. Stick around on the Ed Show. We`ll be right
back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders social media action. This is where you
can find us, we appreciate you following, facebook.com/edshow,
twitter.com/edshow, and ed.msnbc.com. Radio show on Sirius XM 127 Monday
through Friday Channel 127 and of course you can get my radio podcast at
wegoted.com.

Ed Show social media nation has decided. We are reporting. Here are
today`s top Trenders voted on by you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here he is Mr. Popular.

SCHULTZ: The number three Trender, poll position.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I`m seriously considering running again for
my Senate seat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only 30 percent of Arizonians approve what John
McCain is doing.

MCCAIN: We`re down to page stack (ph) and blood relatives.

SCHULTZ: John McCain debates his dubious title.

MCCAIN: There is a bogus poll out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Public policy polling sense that a dislike on McCain
is something Republicans, Democrats, and Independents can agree upon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good kid but no one likes you.

MCCAIN: I can sense that people in my state, they like me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You like me.

MCCAIN: And I`m very grateful.

SCHULTZ: The number two Trender, ferny story.

ZACH GALIFIANAKIS, BETWEEN TWO FERNS HOST: My guest today is Barack Obama,
President Barack Obama.

UNDENTIFIED MALE: He`s actually quite charming.

It must kinda stink though, that you can`t run, you know, three times.

OBAMA: If I ran the third time, it would be sort of like doing a third
"Hangover" movie. It didn`t really work out really well, did it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re really funny. You`re really funny.

SCHULTZ: President Obama gets between two ferns to promote healthcare.

OBAMA: So have you heard of healthcare.gov?

GALIFIANAKIS: Here we go.

OBAMA: I wouldn`t be with you here today if I didn`t have something to
plug.

GALIFIANAKIS: Why would you get the guy that created the Zune to make your
website?

OBAMA: Healthcare.gov works great now that insurers can`t discriminate
against you if you get a preexisting condition anymore.

GALIFIANAKIS: Is this what they mean by drones?

SCHULTZ: And today`s top Trender, ad nauseam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I found this wonderful doctor and a great healthcare
plan, my insurance was canceled because of Obamacare. Congressman Peters,
your decision to vote for Obamacare jeopardized my health.

SCHULTZ: Right wingers spin another healthcare lie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I get why they said OK, it`s not exactly right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This woman is actually going to save over $1,000 a
year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it`s not this blood (ph) out like Walker (ph),
she lied.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that there are serious problems and
questions in her story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ad is an amateurish fraud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the negative stories, not one of them is true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Wendell Potter Senior Analyst with the Center
for Public Integrity and Author of the e-book "Obamacare: What`s in it for
me?" Mr. Potter, good to have you with us tonight.

It`s like we`re in this phase two of the lying now. People were dropping
getting their insurance stop before, you know, about what the president
said about you can keep it if you like it that kind of stuff.

But now, we`re getting into the actual payment and the benefits and these
continuous false attacks on Obamacare. What kind of impact will they have
you think?

WENDELL POTTER, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: You know, I think that people
who are already pre-disposed to not trust Obamacare to be opposed to any
idea about reform will believe this and that`s the intention. It`s about
politics, Ed. It is about trying to persuade people to vote against their
own best interest and that`s exactly what we`re seeing right now.

SCHULTZ: Well, some Democrats running for reelection. They`re out there
saying, "Well, I`m going to fix Obamacare and that we should extend. If
you like your insurance you can keep it two more years."

You know, it`s a quick bullet point and it`s a hard thing to push back with
just a couple of sentences. But the fact is that if the Democrats were to
go along with this, they would be really, you know, blowing up the
foundation of what a lot of this bill was all about and that was to clean
up the insurance industry to make sure junk insurance on the market was
taking off.

Now, you can say, "Well, junk insurance to this person is different to junk
insurance to somebody else." But it will be undercutting the standards
that the industry has to meet. How should the Democrats handle this?

POTTER: Well, they should not be saying that junk policies can continue to
be sold. That is the wrong thing, because it is doing something that is
against the best interest of their constituents. No one should be in a
junk policy. No one should be in a plan that has an annual lifetime cap as
still many of these policies do. No one should be in policies that have
sky-high deductibles.

A lot of people are enticed into these plans thinking they`re getting a
good deal because they may have relatively low premiums but they found out
when it`s too late after they get sick or injured that they are on the hook
for so much money that they might go bankrupt. This is not a good thing
for any politicians` constituents.

SCHULTZ: It would behoove them to take this approach. What does it say
about advocacy groups and people who are out there to defeat Obamacare when
they lie about it, when they lie about exactly what the law is and what`s
happening to real people`s lives. I mean, isn`t that just an admission of
defeat?

POTTER: Well, it really is but it is something that we`re going to
continue to see I think between now and Election Day.

They know that they have to lie about this law. They will find people who
are susceptible to being told things that aren`t true and even to lie as
we`ve seen in some of these commercials. They will find those people and
they`re doing this to mislead and it`s being going on for a long time.
It`s one of the reasons I left my job in the industry because it is a
tactic that has been used for a long time to confuse people and mislead
them to get them -- essentially like I said to think and vote against their
own best interest.

SCHULTZ: The administration says over 4.2 million people have enrolled in
healthcare since October 1st. Obviously, the website is working or the
conservative media would be all over it. You like this number, is this a
good number, and where we going to be at the end of this month?

POTTER: You know, it`s a pretty good number from where we are right now.
Just think we -- this is just for five months, 4.2 million Americans who
didn`t have insurance or people who signed up for coverage, that`s -- in
addition to about 4.5 million people who`ve been deemed eligible for
Medicaid, under the Medicaid expansion.

So, we`re talking pretty close already to nine million people who are going
to be able to get coverage under this new law. That`s pretty good in my
book. And we still got several weeks to ago. And keep in mind that the
eligibility for Medicaid does not end on March the 31st.

SCHULTZ: Are premiums coming down for Americans who are involved in the
Affordable Care Act?

POTTER: Well, absolutely. In fact, I think 83 percent of those who`ve
signed up so far are getting tax credits or subsidies to bring down the
cost of their premiums. They`re getting -- people are getting better
insurance, and in many cases, those who are signing up for coverage through
the exchanges are getting better deals or they`re paying less for better
coverage.

SCHULTZ: You know, you talk about generational change. Think about this.
You and I were talking about this back in the spring of 2009. It`s the
spring of 2014, OK?

POTTER: Right.

SCHULTZ: This is how long it takes. So the question begs where we going
to be five years from now? I mean, we could be into the 30-40 million
people affected by this.

POTTER: Well, in fact, every one of us is affected in a positive way and a
lot of the benefits are just not in the headlines. I benefit, you benefit,
everyone who`s watching this are benefiting in some important way.

Insurance companies are having to be much more consumer-friendly than they
ever have in the past. So, we`ve got a lot of protections that most of us
don`t even -- are not even aware of right now.

SCHULTZ: All right. Wendell Potter, always great to have you on the Ed
Show.

POTTER: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I appreciate your expertise. Thank you so much.

Coming up, we head to Lorain, Ohio where the city steelworkers are at risk
of losing everything. I sat down with workers from this once booming steel
town to bring you their story.

And later, the investigation into the New Jersey Bridgegate scandal
continues with ex-Christie staffer Bridget Kelly appearing in court today.

But next, I`m taking your questions live. Ask Ed Live coming up on MSNBC.
We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching. Thanks for
the questions. Love this segment Ask Ed Live. E-mail them in.

Our question is -- the first one from Barbara. "Why do people follow the
hate and not the truth?"

Well, it`s -- we live in a bullet point culture. It`s easier to be against
something than it is to be positive and force something. And so, the
narrative is really narrowed down. After all, there`s only two letters in
the word "no."

Our next question is from Terry (ph). "Will Walker win re-election in
Wisconsin?"

Well, the latest e-mail dump and also the John Doe investigation number two
certainly doesn`t vote well for the low performing governor, but he`s going
to be well-funded and they`ll have plenty of money that lies (ph). So, I`d
say, it`s 50-50 at this point.

There`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stay with us.

HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: And I`m Hampton Pearson with your
CNBC Market Wrap.

A down day for stocks. The Dow falls 67 points. The S and P is off 9.
The NASDAQ sheds 27 points.

Meanwhile, GM shares slid more than 5 percent today. According to reports,
federal prosecutors in New York are launching a criminal investigation into
the company`s ignition switch recall. The problem is linked to 13 debts.

And Tesla shares also lost ground after New Jersey banned the direct sale
of vehicles to consumers. The company is criticizing the move.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Tonight, we begin our new special
series "Fighting Chance: American Steel."

Now, we hear elected officials talk about the middle class on a regular
basis. We`ve got to save the middle class and middle class American jobs
is what it`s all about.

Well, tonight, I want you to focus on this middle class town that has very
few elected officials willing to step up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: How do you feel when you get laid off? When you know this market
pressures that are costable (ph) with this?

CHRIS MILLSAPS, LAID OFF STEELWORKER: They say, you could make it to your
pride. And I`m a pretty straightforward guy but there`s a couple of days
when I was looking at no one of us is going to laid off for others (ph) in
my couch. Looking at my budget and all my bills, you know, almost in tears
because I was looking at, you know, how am I going to make this bill in the
steelwork. How am I going to do this and it`s just pretty rough.

SCHULTZ: It`s Friday night in Middle America here in Lorain, Ohio at the
American Legion. The steelworkers work together, they play together, they
solve problems together, and as a community, they have each other`s back.

A South Korean trade agreement putting American steelworkers on edge and
their middle class security in question. It`s on the mind of every
resident.

What are you going to do if you get laid off?

MILLSAPS: Well, from everything that I`ve heard, the orders are slow,
mostly because foreign markets were pushing pipe in our country and into
the world market at a cost at less than what we can make it. I mean, if we
have to sell a pipe at a certain amount of price so that our company
remains profitable and our union workers keep working. And there is
counties and countries selling that pipe that meets almost up to what our
quality specifications are, but they are selling it at a considerable cost
less because they`re using nonunion labor, you know, child labor, or
whatever their country deems that they can use to build that same product.

As corporations in this country, the capitalist society, are going to --
they`re going to buy that pipe and save themselves money because of their
profit margin. And in doing so, it`s reduced (inaudible) down so that our
mills working at a creeping pace, and a lot of the younger employees, like
myself, are now unemployed.

SCHULTZ: When all the things you described about the market and the price,
you just take a step back and say "why are we doing this?" Is it the
country?

MILLSAPS: Yeah. And we`re -- inadvertently cutting our own throats. This
country is built on the backbone of the middle class. If you were trying
to, you know, make profit margins for corporations which are driving out
the middle class in a long run, then those tax incomes that the middle
class is making, they`re not going to be there. So then you`re going to
have a group of people that are making Walmart wages left and they`re
happen to collect welfare just so they can put food on their table.

SCHULTZ: The steel industry in Lorain, Ohio, go back to 1895, simply put
everything revolves around this plant.

DAVID RAMOS, USW LOCAL 1104: This is a business on the third generation
steelworkers. And this is what we know in the City of Lorain. And steel
is Lorain. And the direction that we`re going, I mean, we`re proud. We
will always be proud when it comes to steel making at Lorain. We just need
the level of (inaudible) like everybody is saying. Give us the opportunity
and we`ll show. We always do.

ANDY RAMOS, GRIEVANCE COMMITTEE: Lorain has a long history of the steel
making and I`m third generation, and also, both my grandfathers work in the
mill, retires from the mill. My father worked in the mill.

SCHULTZ: This is what you want to do?

A. RAMOS: This is what I want to do. I enjoy what I do. I help the
community by doing what I do and I just hope that the future is there for
the generations behind me to also provide for this community.

SCHULTZ: They are sick of politicians talking about the middle class and
then making deals with countries that undercut their way of life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blame (ph) here by U.S. Steel that South Korea was
selling tubing here and in the U.S. below cost. But you know what the U.S.
Commerce Department says, "no." And so, now, putting some tariffs on some
of the other countries, but not South Korea, and that really provides some
direct competition to some of our steel makers here at home.

SCHULTZ: Does that kind of variate you with Washington is doing (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. I just wonder who makes these decisions are?

DAN VORHEES, PRESIDENT, USW LOCAL 1104: We public servants that are
worried about taking care of the public in our special interest that that`s
where it comes down to. You know, you turn on the TV everyday. We`re
talking about takers and entitlements. Well, if it`s not for good paying
jobs and investment in this country, in supporting variants (ph) for
structure, you know, where we`re going to be in 10 years, 15 years, 20
years? What kind of opportunities are my kids want to have? That`s not
even get to the point where we`re talking about my kids and my grand kids.
We`re just talking about my children.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

VORHEES: We`re talking about everybody`s children in this group. You
know, the abuse that`s going on by our so called public servants in not
allowing hardworking Americans to fully utilize the capacity in our skill
and our talents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s outrageous (ph).

VORHEES: It`s a disgrace.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

VORHEES: You know, look, I`m a fighting, man, like everybody else in this
room.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

VORHEES: Enough is enough. We deserve better, we are better, let`s act
like it.

SCHULTZ: Some jobs have been lost and there could be more to come, which
puts pressure on the safety net.

There are some politicians, one in particular, Paul Ryan that would call a
guy like you a "taker."

MILLSAPS: You know what I`ve taken in my life? I`ve taken a lot of
(inaudible). If they say that I`m a taker for, you know, collecting
unemployment because my job is not there at this moment for me to work. In
the State of Ohio, I have to put in two applications a week to try to find
a job. I just had to -- I just paid money out of my pocket which my funds
are already tight to rebuild my computer today so that I can pull my resume
out, so I can send my resume to places. You know, I`m not a taker. I just
won`t want to be taken advantage of.

STATE REP. DAN RAMOS, (D) LORAIN, OH: Chinese dumping almost bankrupt
American steel less than a decade ago, but it took that the brink of total
bankruptcy, the brink of the entire end of the industry for the government
to step in and do something. What we`re saying is -- and what we`re
hoping, you know, we`re hoping everyone realizes we need to stop the
backsliding before it`s a catastrophe. We`re already in dire straits, you
know, but we need to slow this erosion of the American dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: So when you hear politicians talk about middle class jobs in
supporting the middle class, it all starts with trade agreements. It all
starts with a level playing field. Now, that steel mill, we`re going to
show you a lot more because we`re going to be doing a lot more stories in
our series, "Fighting Chance: American Steel."

This isn`t your grandpa`s steel mill, this is high tech manufacturing.
These are the best workers in the world. They produce better steel than
anybody else on the planet, but they`re being undercut by South Korea
because we got a lousy trade agreement. And yet we`re thinking about doing
another one, TPP? I think not.

Hats off, big time to U.S. Steel. The company has invested over $200
million in the Lorain, Ohio over the last two years. They`re willing to
bank on the American worker. They`re willing to bank on the American steel
industry. But they got to have people in Washington who were going to
understand that investment, understand investment in workers to the middle
class and jobs, good paying jobs and quality, environmentally safe steel.

That is not the case, what`s coming into this country. We got a lot to
talk about in this series. Up next, new details on Bridgegate. The
scandal continues, stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, the hypocrites. Michele Bachmann, the
Tea Party darling is calling out gay bullies. That`s right. Bachmann says
the gay community is pushing around the American people. The congresswoman
from Minnesota joined the very low rated in listener (ph) challenge, the
Lars Larson radio show to whine about Arizona`s field discriminatory bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN, (R-MN): The thing that I think is getting a little
tiresome is the gay community thinks that they have so bullied the American
people, and they`ve so intimidated politicians. The Politicians fear them,
and so they think that they get to dictate the agenda everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Bachmann is scrapping the bottom of the victimization barrel.
Here is how bullied Bachmann felt when she was ranting about the gay
community back in 2004.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: People who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual
dysfunction in their lives and sexual identity disorders. This is a very
real issue, it`s not funny, it`s sad. Any of you who have members of your
family that are in the lifestyle. We have a member of our family that is,
this is not funny. It`s a very sad life. Its part of Satan, I think, to
say this is gay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It`s not funny, but it is sad, isn`t it? Bachmann wants to knock
anyone who infringes on her hatery (ph). But if she thinks that it makes
her a victim, she can keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show, two central figures in the New
Jersey Bridgegate scandal refused to turn over documents required by
subpoena today. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie`s now fired Deputy
Chief of Staff Bridget Kelly made her first court appearance in the wake of
George Washington Bridge Lane closures. Kelly was behind the infamous e-
mail, "Time for some traffic problems in New Jersey."

Today, Bridget Kelly`s attorney argued for her Fifth Amendment protection
against self-incrimination. He said Kelly cannot be forced to turn over
subpoena documents which include personal e-mails and calendars because the
information would provide testimony which could be used against her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL CRICHLEY, BRIDGET KELLY`S ATTORNEY: Since the time the subpoena
was issued, we`ve received even more e-mails for which Ms. Kelly is on or
Mr. Stepien are on in text messages. So it`s not inference. It`s a
knowledge at this point that they are on -- at a considerable number of
communications related to these issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The lawyer for former Christie campaign manager Bill Stepien was
also in court. Stepien did not appear today. Stepien was set to be the
State GOP Chair before the scandal broke. The argument by vote parties is
that the complying with the subpoenas carries the risk of self-
incrimination.

Let`s bring in David Corn, Mother Jones, Washington Bureau Chief and MSNBC
Political Analyst. David good to have you with us tonight.

DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES: Good to be with you Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet. It doesn`t seem like Bridget Kelly or Bill Stepien have
something to hide by withholding e-mails and text messages. It`s certainly
seems like they`re clearly trying to protect themselves, and by doing this
.

CORN: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: . they leave more questions than answers. Your thoughts on this?

CORN: Well, I think what they`re doing is drawing this out, which actually
is bad for Chris Christie. You know, this is a long complicated
investigation, not just into the lane closures, but what`s been going on
with the Port Authority and also it`s a possible conflicts of ventures, and
the use of Sandy money for political leverage. Ed, you know, it is --
presidential ambitions are not toast already, you know, they`re going to be
that, if this keeps going on for six months, another year or so. So I
think it`s mostly inevitable. Most of the lawyers I talked to say that the
defense that Stepien and Kelly are putting up at this point on this
subpoenas is not sustainable.

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s the next question. Do their Fifth Amendment rights
cover everything?

CORN: If that was the case, then no legislative body could ever
investigate the executive branch. If, you know, if Congress -- U.S.
Congress want to investigate the White House, the White House could just
say, "Hey, Fifth Amendment." If they want to investigate the EPA, same
thing. So, this is work-related product. Even if they use their personal
text messages or personal e-mails for work-related business, which they`re
not supposed to do, the legislative committee which is not about indicting
people, which is not about bringing up criminal charges, should have the
right to do this. Otherwise, government oversight is meaningless.

SCHULTZ: So, Bridget Kelly and Bill Stepien are just exhausting every
possible effort they can before they might have to step forward and say
something. I mean, about 32 people from organizations close to the
governor have been subpoenaed. I mean, are any of them going to cooperate
to the point where there`s going to be a conviction?

CORN: Well, we have a long way to go. We see that the U.S. Attorney in
New Jersey is probably enlarging his investigation and he`s taking over
subpoenas that were issued by the U.S. Attorney in New York targeting the
Port Authority. I think this could become a very complicated, wide-ranging
investigation, and may take, you know, months if not years to get
indictments if we get to that point.

But in the mean time, you know, the way these things work is until the
prosecutor has something on a particular individual. They kind of old
firm, but at some point, people start making deals. And they say, well, I
can tell you a more interesting story if you give me immunity or, you know,
which is happening on the prosecution side, not on the legislative side. I
think in the legislative side, you know .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CORN: . Stepien and Kelly are just going to go -- do whatever they can to
put off the final moment of doom.

SCHULTZ: You know, the speculation on this, the intrigue just continues to
grow, I mean, I go back to the original press conference. Governor
Christie, either he had this thing so wired, there was .

CORN: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: . he thought there was no way anybody was going to turn, or the
guys find out tell them the truth. I mean, something is going to shake out
of this. He`s either going to be the ultimate hero, and the truth seeker
in at all. Or somebody`s going to turn and prove that he was a part of
this and aware of it and did nothing about it. Isn`t that words going?

CORN: Well, I think it`s -- maybe muddier than that. If you read the New
York Times piece out today about how Chris Christie used the Port Authority
and much of its resources as a political piggy bank, which has been done by
others in the past. But it`s never been put under such scrutiny. I think
that other stuff is going to come out and the lane closures maybe the least
of Chris Christie`s problems when these investigations--plural--are
finished.

SCHULTZ: Why are the Democrats so quiet? I find it interesting that
nothing is really -- nothing has really leaked out of these investigations
and all the wrangling that`s talking place. Normally, the culture of story
like this.

CORN: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: . something leaks, "Oh, Christie did know. There was a text
message." Or somebody knows somebody that`s on the committee. Don`t you
find that interesting?

CORN: Well, U.S. prosecutors sometimes leak, sometimes don`t. Patrick
Fitzgerald who prosecuted Scooter Libby down here on Washington was a
target for not leaking. Believe me, it cost me a lot of pain at that time.
But, you know, you know, legislative bodies, you know, legislative
committees in the state levels take .

SCHULTZ: They like to talk.

CORN: . they like to talk, but they also -- they tend to be small, but
it`s smart for them not to leak now. You know, they don`t wanted this to
be accused of being a partisan witch hunt, and you know, and prosecuting
this investigation through leaks in the press. So, I think, right now,
they play it by the numbers, get to the bottom of this.

SCHULTZ: OK.

CORN: That`s really what the public wants.

SCHULTZ: All right. David Corn, Mother Jones, good to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

CORN: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Tomorrow, we will talk to TransCanada whistleblower Evan Vokes.
He`ll discuss the alleged lack of oversight on construction on the Keystone
XL Pipeline.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening,
Rev.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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