updated 4/3/2014 11:23:15 AM ET 2014-04-03T15:23:15

THE ED SHOW
April 2, 2014

Guests: Keith Ellison, Bob Shrum, Jan Schakowsky, Jennifer Loredo, Lydia
Hernandez, Robert Kennedy Jr>

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNDENTIFIED MALE: Millions of Americans are going to get healthcare.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Literally .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to make them say, "Oh boy, I want to go
vote Democrat in the fall."? I don`t think so Megan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the typical government thing where we`re well-
meaning (ph) but unconfident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then there`s this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You repeal Obamacare, there`s absolutely no chance that
your budget is going to become law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Paul Ryan has it right that we`re not going to
give up on, because we`re not going to give up on destroying the healthcare
system for the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well we`re well-meaning but unconfident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When are you going to run for president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say that again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks
for watching. I`m still giddy, I have to admit it.

Have you noticed that we always like to put a label on people when they
group together and they have a feeling about something like the 9/11
Truthers or the Birthers, you know, groups that want to believe, we know
have groups that want to believe things, right?

We now have the healthcare deniers. Oh, they`re out and about, they`re
just squawking about this number right here. 7.1 million as of March 31st,
we`re rolling, it`s going to hit eight million, Oh yes. It might even hit
8.5. Well, I mean if they don`t want to believe numbers let`s just start
throwing numbers out there. You know what`s really interesting, is that
when the number was a 106,000 signups after the first 30 days, they will
roll over that number. They were believing that one.

So, what`s the criteria here? Basically what we have developing in America
is the Healthcare Deniers. They want to take votes and deny millions of
Americans healthcare and now they want to deny the numbers.

Bill O`reilly always says he`s looking out for us. Come on Bill, get an
investigative reporter on the staff and go after this number. Because you
know what? If that`s not the truth, we got a hell of story on our hands.

Bottom line is we`ve got right wingers across America, across the street,
just denying everything when it comes to healthcare, look no further than
our good friends at Fox News.

The lies and denials started just moments after President Obama`s Tuesday
afternoon remarks, it`s almost as if they had a prepared script right away,
this is what we`re going to do.

Expert Fox News ambushed reporter Jesse Watters, was quick to give his
expert analysis on the enrollment numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS: I actually think the White House was straight up
lying about these numbers. They are saying seven million people signed up
on the website that was broken for the last nine months, they really want
us to believe that this website is working enough where they can give us a
legitimate number. The White House has lied about so many things, why
wouldn`t they lie about this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Good logic there. Why the hell would we lie about mushroom
clouds, we`re just 45 minutes away from them, typical reporting from Fox
News. There is no basis to back that claim up whatsoever. President Obama
is not lying about enrollment numbers, it`s an absurd claim.

Here`s the bottom line, the anger and denial, well it didn`t stop there. A
short time later, Charles Krauthammer dropped this lie on the Fox News
audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATE COLUMNIST: Look, this is a phony number,
it`s a -- and it`s wonderfully precise, you know, these guys go six months
without any idea what the numbers are. And all of a sudden it`s to a
decimal point, 7.1 not 0.2. But of course it meaningless because A, we
don`t know how many of them have paid, so it`s an enrollment number, that`s
not enrollment.

But the more important one is how many were previously uninsured?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Where`s the curiosity? Where`s the investigative reporting? You
mean to tell me that there`s not one investigative reporter in Washington
D.C. or New York City that wants this story? I find that hard to believe.

OK. Charlie, let`s follow the news. Here is the chart. This is where it
started. You guys were really onboard over at Fox News. I mean hell you
guys were cheerleading right here. Now right here it`s all phony numbers.

The White House did keep track of enrollment, typically people
procrastinate. They said that all along, right? Don`t you know teenagers
anymore? Don`t you know 20 somethings? "Oh men, it`s the healthcare
signup, let`s go right away." No, no, no, no, no, you see there`s been
millions of dollars of advocacy money thrown at a negative, and that has
affected some folks. Website, that`s all in the rear view mirror, it`s
fixed, we`re rolling.

The same thing happened in Massachusetts, with RomneyCare, Krauthammer
should have known better. But of course research isn`t high on his list.
Then we have the kids on the curvy couch. There they were quick to jump on
the denial bandwagon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How real are those numbers? 7.1 million, that`s very
specific and that is a good number for the White House. But the question
is how many people -- how many of those actually paid? How many of them
are duplicates?

It`s interesting, the L.A. Times is quoted by the daily mail, is saying
that they looked at a Rand study that says that just 23 percent of those
whose had signed up by Monday night had insurance before, and only a
fraction of them have paid. They say the number is 858,000 previously
uninsured had paid by Monday night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It`s always about the money, isn`t it? It`s never about the
people. 7.1 million people now are going to have healthcare, millions
others are going to be onboard, but that`s not really part of the story.

See, don`t believe these folks on the couch. Health and Human Services
Secretary Kathleen Sebelius who was suppose to be fired a long time ago,
said on Monday that Americans are making their Obamacare payments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: What we know from
insurance companies and again Stan, the customers pay their companies, this
is private insurance in the private market tell us that for their initial
customers, it`s somewhere between 80, 85, some say it`s high as 90 percent
have paid so far. Lots of companies have different time tables from when
their new customers have to send their first payment. You are not fully
enrolled, you`re absolutely right until you pay your premium.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: We got a lot to unpack here don`t we? Hey Charlie Krauthammer,
if you really want to do some investigative reporting, here`s your lead
right here, she just told you, all you have to do is check with the
insurance companies. You might even find 90 percent of the people have
paid in already. The hell with all these studies, I know you wanted her
fired, but she seems to be coming with the facts. So who`s telling the
truth?

Meanwhile, failed vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan started his 2015
budget markup today, it`s a dandy, he wasted no time in the opening
statement, once again lying about Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: Now, I know our friends on the other side
might dispute this point. But remember, it was Obamacare that ended
Medicare as we know it. Remember, it was Obamacare that cut $700 billion
from Medicare. It was Obamacare that setup a board if 15 unelected
bureaucrats to ration care for seniors. And that`s why this budget will
repeal Obamacare in its entirety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And remember, all of that was rejected in the last election.
This guy hadn`t learned a thing since November of 2012, he lost that
election, he was on the ticket and that`s the same lie he was using for
that argument. Omabacare did not cut a dime from Medicare. Again,
Obamacare did not cut a dime from Medicare. Obamacare simply slows the
growth of Medicare, because more people are covered by Omabacare, the
Affordable Healthcare Act.

Now, as head of the budget committee, we think that Paul Ryan would know
that, but he is a pathological liar at this point when it comes to
Obamacare, he is lying again. We should also note Paul Ryan`s budget still
accounts for the $700 billion in slowed growth. He likes to pick and
choose the numbers. This guy claims -- all of his claims are full of
holes. Not to mention Ryan wants to make healthcare -- take healthcare
away from 7.1 million Americans, but he`s got nothing in his plan to help
all these phony numbered Americans out there.

Now, they need to find a new plan but they won`t. Taking healthcare away
from Americans is wrong, it`s immoral and it will never happen because
they`re now in a political corner, a box. They don`t know how to get out
of it. So they`re depending on Fox News to try to convince they`re base
that the White House is lying again.

Well they lied about the IRS, they lied about fast and furious, they lied
about Benghazi, hell they got to be lying about the healthcare numbers.
That`s all they have. Pretty soon Darrell Issa is going to show up and
he`s going to demand another hearing, because he wants to investigate with
his crowd of clowns, "I want to know about that 7.1 million people have
signed up for Obamacare, I don`t believe it."

It`s just the show folks, this is who they are. What we`re seeing develop
now is the healthcare deniers. They want to deny American`s healthcare
through a vote, they want to deny the numbers. They can not believe that
they are on the wrong side of history.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Are you happy Paul Ryan never became vice president?" Text A
for Yes, text B for No to 67622, you can always go to our blog
@ed.msnbc.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show. I`m not
responsible for that text question tonight, but I thought it was a good
one.

Its fun when you win, you got to smile when you win.

I am so happy that there are people with cancer across America that won`t
be denied. Don`t you think they could bring themselves to saying "that"?

For more, let me bring in Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison.
Congressman, good to have you with us tonight. Your thoughts .

REP. KEITH ELLISON, (D) MINNESOTA: Hey, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet, brother. Your thoughts on Paul Ryan`s budget that
repeals Obamacare and offers no replacement.

ELLISON: Well, I mean I`m not surprised at all. I mean all along the way,
they had the opportunity to talk about what they would do to improve
healthcare for Americans. They have failed utterly in every single step.
Now they Paul Ryan unveils his budget which by the way cuts about three
million jobs over the course of by 2017, you know, we`re not surprised. I
mean, at the end of the day, I think Americans are beginning to see that
the Republican program of cutting things that they need, of cutting jobs,
of not prioritizing Americans, it just won`t work for America and so I`m
hard on to try to get people to see that and they`ve seen it everyday and
all over this country.

SCHULTZ: You know, you want to talk about a jaded opinion. We just play
the clip of Brit Hume on Fox News saying that he`s not sure if people are
going to go to the polls and vote for the Democrats because of healthcare.

I just want to point out tonight that the Democrats and the liberal
movement of this country didn`t do this to get reelected. They didn`t do
Social Security because they wanted to get reelected. They didn`t do
Medicare because they wanted to get reelected.

ELLISON: Right.

SCHULTZ: They didn`t do this health care reform. They did it because it`s
a moral component that we have in this country to helping our neighbor and
to make sure that insurance companies can`t butcher somebody`s life
financially and take away their chance for life. That`s what this is about
and the Democrats can`t be afraid to answer these critics just like that.
This budget is a fraud. What do you to make of Paul Ryan playing around
with the savings of ObamaCare and saying, "Well, really not going to
happen."

ELLISON: Well, it`s just phony numbers, it`s fraud, it`s dishonest
budgeting and we`re going to call it out and we`re going to hope that great
journalist will asking in the tough question, "How do you collect and take
in the savings of the Affordable Care Act and then repeal the Affordable
Care Act?" I mean, but that exactly what`s he`s doing and he needs to be
called out on it. But like you said, Ed, if you go back to the debates in
1968, they did not want all Medicare, they cried socialized medicine, they
didn`t want Social Security in the 1930s. They have been against Medicaid.

So every step along the way, they have stood in the way of progress and now
that we got 7.1 million people signed up in my own state, we got nearly 170
thousand and we were low on insure at state. I can tell you now, I
wouldn`t want to be one of those governors who refused Medicaid expansion
in the next round because I think people are going to remember who hurt him
and who helps him.

SCHULTZ: Are these numbers verifiable?

ELLISON: Of course.

SCHULTZ: I know the answer to that. I mean what is the feeling on Capitol
Hill today about the pushback that the numbers are phony?

ELLISON: Well, you know, I guess that what else can they say, right? I
mean they`re left with just flat-out being, you know, what do you call
them? Healthcare Deniers?

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

ELLISON: They`re left with little more than that but, you know, pretty
soon the real life stories are going to be emerging.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

ELLISON: And they have been emerging already. People say, I`ve got
healthcare for the first time in my life and I`m gratified about it. Those
real life stories, need to get put out and emerge because we know they are
real life stories of people not getting healthcare, being denied, had been
revealed as false several times over.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, we got to have you back and talk about the
Progressive budget because of the American people saw what you guys have on
the table. I think that`s going to move some folks. Good to have you with
us tonight, Keith. Thank you so much.

ELLISON: Thank you, sir. You got it.

SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Democratic strategies and NYU Professor Bob Shrum
. Bob, good to have you with us tonight.

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good evening, Ed.

SCHULTZ: 7.1 million, is that a good number for the Democrats? Does it
mean anything?

BOB SHRUM: I think it means a lot. It`s a great number. It actually
exceeds the initial CBO projection and, you know, watching those facts news
clips, I think they ought change their name to Fraud News because what
they`re out there doing is promoting a series of lies and someone as
intelligent by the way it`s Charles Krauthammer has to know that what he`s
saying is untrue.

Look, if this is like unskewed polls during the 2012 election that
predicted a romping Romney victory. He didn`t win and this isn`t going to
change the reality.

And by the way, it`s not just 7.1 million. By 2017 and there is no way
that ObamaCare or the Affordable Care Act will be repeal before that.
You`ll have 30 million people benefiting from it. At that point, it will
be impossible to repeal it and there are Republicans like Ramesh Ponnuru
who are now riding that the party has to come to terms with the fact that
the Affordable Care Act is here to stay. They may want to make some
changes but they`re never going to be able to repeal it.

SCHULTZ: How do they resolve that on the campaign trail? How do they not
go home with egg on their face?

SHRUM: Well, look, they`re going to go out there. They`re going to
campaign all out against the affordable Care Act against ObamaCare as they
call it all the time throughout 2014. Dean Heller the Republican Senator
from Nevada has warned that this is very dangerous tactic. They ought to
be focusing on the economy, although that may go south on them because it
may go north for the American people, that is it may got better and better.

Look President Clinton is right, Democrats ought to run on Obamacare not
run away from it. Two weeks ago in the Daily Beast, I described how to do
this, you can see the ad. You say, this Republican candidate voted to deny
coverage for preexisting conditions, to deny mammograms to women, to let
insurance companies kick young adults off their parents` policies. I mean
you can go through a whole list of those things and in addition you can
take people like Mitch McConnell the Republican Majority Leader. And you
can say he`s in favor of sending 360,000 people in Kentucky who now have
insurance into the uninsured cog (ph). That`s a very powerful argument.
Democrats should just have the courage to have to have the courage to make
it.

SCHULTZ: OK. So what`s the Democrat`s next move here when it comes to
healthcare? And I`m not so much talking about the campaign trail as I am.
What would be the next step from here in the midst of these new deniers?

SHRUM: Well, you`re going to have to get out there, you`re going to have
to -- you have to do two things. You have to credibly argue that the
number of people being covered is 7.1 million. Most folks are going to
believe that. I think you`re beginning to see shifts in the polls in terms
of approval for the Affordable Care Act. You got to make the case. But
this is a fairy tale like the argument that was being made just before the
election when unemployment fell, that somehow are the Bureau of Labor
Statistics was lying. It obviously wasn`t. And the people who are in
charge of counting the numbers for the Affordable Care Act aren`t lying.

By the way, it`s not just 7.1 million, it`s also all those folks who are
getting covered by Medicaid and other people who are getting covered.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SHRUM: Democrats have to have the courage of their own convictions. In
1998 at the height of impeachment in the midterms, there was one guy who
really pushed to take impeachment on. His name was Bill Clinton. He
wanted to make ads in that midterm. They took it on and said, "Why are we
doing this when we should be talking about schools in the economy." And I
worked with him on those ads. We finally did them in the last two weeks.
And the Democrats gained seats against all historical presidents. If we
started a month earlier or two months earlier, I think we probably would
have taken back the House.

SCHULTZ: Good ...

SHRUM: So Democrats have to be Democrats to make this work.

SCHULTZ: Good lesson to be learned there. Bob Shrum always, great to have
you with us on the Ed Show, thanks you so much.

SHRUM: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter@Edshow and on Facebook. We always
want to know what you think.

Coming up, the fight for public education heats up around the country. The
Rapid Response Panel weighs in on what`s happening in Arizona. For-profit
school pushes on.

But first, President Obama promotes the big 10.10 in Michigan.
Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky joins me, stay with us, we`ll be right back

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders. What`s hot, what`s not? Here`s where
you can catch all the Ed action. That is Facebook.com/edshow,
Twitter@Edshow. Be part of the team and also ed.msnbc.com. On the radio,
Sirius XM Channel 127 at Liberal Talk stations across the country, noon to
3:00, Monday through Friday. You can get my podcast on my website at
wegoted.com.

Ed Show Social Media Nation has decided. We are reporting.

Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A girl (ph) world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, the space between.

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT, (R) TEXAS: But I want to take you back to when this
was the House of Representatives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me hit you with some knowledge.

GOHMERT: On Sundays, this became the largest non-denominational Christian
church.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Louie Gohmert tries to redefine a separation of church
and state.

GOHMERT: Thomas Jefferson came to church right here in statuary hall, the
guy who coined the phrase separation of church and state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what that means?

GOHMERT: It was to be a one way wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That doesn`t make sense.

GOHMERT: That the state would not dictate to the church but the church
would certainly play a role in the state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait a minute, strike that.

GOHMERT: Jefferson had a little different idea of what separation of
church and state meant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wrong sir, wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, shot down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is 21st century kind of hunting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Up in the sky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a bird.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The town is split of whether or not to sell licenses
(ph) can allow anyone to shoot down drones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re coming to a sky near you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Colorado town votes down a bill to legalize drone
hunting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are few of the crowd that have gathered out here
trying to sway voters ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s -- I think we look like just a bunch of
idiots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was an overwhelming vote, 73 percent saying no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let the town make a little money, otherwise they`re
just going to sit here and die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the worst idea I`ve ever heard in my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, place your wager.

BARACK OBAMA, 44TH AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
And I`m determined to do my part to let wages, improve take home pay anyway
I can. If we`re going to do right by our fellow Americans we need Congress
to get on board. It would lift millions of people out of poverty right
away. You would think this would be a no brainer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president`s minimum wage proposal faces tough
competition.

REP. ERIC CANTOR, (R) VIRGINIA: But if you do what the President wants to
do, you will actually harm job growth.

GOV. RICH PERRY, (R) TEXAS: We shouldn`t be having a conversation about
the minimum wage. We ought to be having a conversation about the maximum
wage.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: Raising the minimum wage destroys
jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky of Illinois.
Congresswoman .

REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY, (D) ILLINOIS: Hi, Ed.

SCHULTZ: . always a pleasure, good to have you with us tonight.

SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: You know, I don`t want to be the wasp in the ointment or the wasp
in the punch bowl at the party here. But this is a dead issue. John
Boehner is not going to bring this to the floor for a vote. Yet the
president is out campaigning on $10.10. What`s the end game in 2014?

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, first of all I think that it is not necessarily all
over. You know, the bus tour that`s been going around all over the country
getting great local press. And raise the wage is coming to Washington
tomorrow, they`re going to have a press event. The president is out there
stomping, and almost three quarters of the American people believe that we
should raise the minimum wage.

At the very least Ed, the fact that he Republicans if they end up saying
no, is very unpopular with the American people and could be an election
year issue.

But I know right now, if John Boehner would have called that bill, it would
pass. Once again John Boehner is standing in the way of millions of
people, about 28 millions of Americans getting a raise. And it would
really help the economy. So we want to make an issue out of this. This is
good thing .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SCHAKOWSKY: . it`s not beating a dead horse.

SCHULTZ: Well, you know, beating a dead horse. I hope not, that`s the
terminology I was going to use. You took it right out of my mouth. The
bottom line here is that Boehner is stubborn. We wanted background checks
and 90 percent of the American people want it. We never got background
checks. We never got any gun legislation.

These guys in the House are determined to run the country their way. The
president is on the road campaigning, the Democrats are out there talking
about $10.10. Is this going to move people in November? Is this the
issue?

SCHAKOWSKY: I think it`s one of the issues. It certainly shows the
contrast between the Republicans who are about to release a very mean, mean
budget that cuts the programs for the elderly and for children and gives
millionaires another tax raise, and the American people that want something
to be done, to help them get back on their feet, this economy really
rolling and to give them a raise. So I think that this is a very
worthwhile campaign to be promoting .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SCHAKOWSKY: . being so popular.

SCHULTZ: All right the senate candidate Gary Peters of Michigan was with
the president at the announcement. This is going to be a hot campaign
issue where unemployment is high or I mean are the Democrats counting on
poor people to get out to vote in record numbers in an off year election?
Because let`s face it, this minimum wage is talking about people who are
living under the poverty line.

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, actually if the minimum wage is raised, this could cause
then up the line wages to be raised as well. Those people who are making
slightly above $7.25, they are going to see their minimum wage rise and
people who are making less than $10.10 an hour .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SCHAKOWSKY: But above, you know, their wages aren`t going to rise. Look
the minimum wage is actually about the rate it was adjusted for inflation
in 1968 and that is really a bad thing for our economy. The President was
in Michigan. Henry Ford got it.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SCHAKOWSKY: He understood that if he wanted people to buy his cars he has
going to have to pay them a wage so that they could afford to do that.
It`s good for our economy, good for business.

SCHULTZ: So how do you expect the Republicans to work with your party on
this? That really is it. You say that if they were to come to floor that
there would be enough people that would turn on Boehner and it would vote
for the minimum wage.

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, we believe that there are enough Republicans right now.
Frank Lobiondo just recently came out in favor. I believe it was of
minimum wage or I don`t think it was just extending the unemployment
insurance. No .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SCHAKOWSKY: . it`s the minimum wage. And so I think we`re going to get
enough -- we would get enough Republicans who would find it dangerous if
the vote were actually called to vote no. We`re just simply not going to
give up, Ed. There`s a lot of organizing going on and we`re going to, you
know, the campaign to take back the House and to keep the Senate is going
to be very much a ground game. And there are a lot of motivational issues.
For some, it will be the minimum wage, for others it will be voting rights,
and for women it will be the fact that they`re after our pocket books as
well as our reproductive freedoms.

So we`re going to be organizing all of those constituencies for young
people. It`s going to be student loans and the environment. We know how
to push the buttons that are going to get people motivated to get out to
vote.

SCHULTZ: All right, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky on the Ed Show. Thank
you so much for joining us.

SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: I appreciate it, you bet.

Still ahead, the for-profit education businesses, why Arizona`s public
schools are converting to district run charters?

And lately, the potentially devastating risks of the Keystone XL Pipeline.
Robert Kennedy Jr. joins me in studio to discuss Keystone`s environment
impact.

But next, I`m taking your questions, Ask Ed Live coming up on the Ed Show
on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Love the questions from the viewers
to this program. Thanks so much. Ask Ed, one of my favorite segments.

First question coming in from Rose tonight, she wants to know, "What will
it take for people to stand up and say enough is enough to corporations,
banks, and Republicans?"

Well, I assume you`re equating that to the election. I would say community
organizing, seriously. People like to do things in groups, you know,
people like to do things together. We go to sporting events together, we
do things together, we shop together, we go to the park together, we do
things together as Americans, we like to hang out, you know.

If we community organize and if we can motivate and move enough people to
recognize what is happening in America, we can make the change. We have
made the change. We now have numbers in front of us that change can
happen. It`s happened within the last five years. 7.1 million people have
signed up for the Affordable Care Act and 15 million people have been
affected by it. That should give us confidence that we can overcome the
forces that are in the political arena that out bank us, so to speak.

Out next question is from Holly, she wants to know, "How do you get non-
voting Democrats to the polls?"

Just remember one thing. The folks who are on the other side, the
Republicans, they`ve already voted to take away your healthcare. They want
to take away your pension, they want to take away your voice in the
workplace, they`re the takeaway party. And if that don`t motivate people,
I don`t know what will.

Stick around, Response Panel is next.

DOMINIC CHU, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Dominic Chu with your CNBC Market
Wrap.

Stocks end higher for a four straight session. The Dow is up 40 points.
The S and P adds 5. And another record for that index in the NASDAQ rises
8 points.

Payroll processor ADP said employers added a 191,000 jobs in March slightly
below estimates. The report comes two days before the government widely
watched employment report.

Factory orders jumped stronger than expected 1.6 percent in February, the
biggest gain since last September.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN HUPPENTHAL, ARIZONA SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: This is
John Huppenthal, Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction. And I have
great news for you. I want you to know about a state program that provides
money for parents to offer alternative education choices for their children
including private school. That`s right. You may be able to send your
child to private school for free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Wow. Welcome back to the Ed Show. How about that one huh?
Republicans in Arizona aren`t hiding their education agenda when the
state`s highest elected school official is out their showing on behalf of
private schools. Is he on the take? Question mark.

From 2008 to 2014, the Arizona legislature and Republican Governor Jan
Brewer, you know what they did? They enacted some of the deepest cuts in
education cuts in this country, slashing per student funding by 17.2
percent.

Bottom line, Republicans want to slash tax dollars from public education
and subsidize charter schools. You know, the saying goes, "if you can`t
beat him, join him" which is exactly what the public school districts in
Arizona are doing. They`re converting and creating their own district-run
charter schools in order to gain access to state funds reserve for those
schools.

Public schools who convert to charters receive upwards of thousand dollars
more per pupil, plus additional money from voter-approved overrides and
bonds. Last year, 18 districts in the state converted nearly 60 schools to
charters for this school year. Very interesting and a hot topic in
Arizona.

Joining me tonight, Rapid Response Panel State Representative Lydia
Hernandez and also Jennifer Loredo. Great to have both of you with us
tonight.

JENNIFER LOREDO, ARIZONA EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: Thank you very much.

SCHULTZ: Jennifer, I understand, you`re .

LOREDO: Thanks for the invite

SCHULTZ: You bet. Yeah. Jennifer, I understand, you`re a lobbyist for
the Arizona Education Association, correct?

LOREDO: That`s correct.

SCHULTZ: OK.

LOREDO: I speak for the teachers in our state.

SCHULTZ: All right. Well, let`s start there. What are the teachers
saying about this that state funds would be used to help send their kids to
private schools as the ad says for free from the superintendent? What
about that?

LOREDO: I will tell you I have never seen our public school teachers more
fired up when they heard their own superintendent of public instruction
calling parents to a rubble counting (ph), encouraging them to pull their
kids out of public schools and send them to private schools. They are
outraged, they are mad, and they cannot believe how pathetic it is that
their own superintendent of public instruction has done this.

SCHULTZ: Representative Hernandez, your response to this action and where
is this money coming from?

STATE REP. LYDIA HERNANDEZ, (D) ARIZONA: Well, it`s coming from the state.
Now, we have seen a lot of cut backs, I`m going to say, throughout the
years. I mean, it`s one of our priorities. Democrats in the House and
Senate are vying for more educational moneys. It`s critical to the state`s
need. I attend on the school board, I`ve done so for the last 13 years and
I`ve seen the moneys, you know, diminished. So when see an announcement
like this or action such as this, I think we`ve got to go back to our
priorities at the state. I understand making it more competitive but I
think I`m more for creating a level playing field even for our public
schools, as outrageous as that might sound to some folks in Arizona.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HERNANDEZ: But I think it`s about prioritizing.

SCHULTZ: Well, Lydia, I was asking -- and I appreciate your answer, it`s
very informative. But, his doing a robocall, I mean, who`s making the
copy, who`s supplying all of this, and the resources for this that have a
guy who`s on state dollar payroll do something for private schools.

LOREDO: Well, you know what .

HERNANDEZ: I don`t agree with those actions. That`s just not right. He`s
got a role to fulfill and aid this to service the superintendent for public
instruction for the State of Arizona and not his personal interest or not
on behalf of any other personal interest of who might be paying the bill.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Jennifer .

LOREDO: Ed .

SCHULTZ: Go ahead Jennifer.

LOREDO: No, I was just going to say, let`s get straight to the point of
this. The superintendent public of instruction was given $62,000 in his
last election by private voucher proponents to try to put money in the
private schools and for profit corporations. This is simply a payback for
the money he got and knowing that he`s going to have a top election this
next election cycle.

SCHULTZ: OK.

LOREDO: They made these robocalls. They`re the ones behind it.

SCHULTZ: All right. So Jennifer, I want to know, what do you and your
group make of this so called charter loop holes, what they call it. What
is it?

LOREDO: So, what`s happening here in Arizona is we`ve had about 60 of our
public schools convert their school and their programs to charter schools
and the reason largely that they`ve done this is because the State of
Arizona has systematically defunded education and the only way for these
schools to get new dollars is to convert to charter schools because it
gives them anywhere between $1,500 and $2,000 extra per student. And
that`s money that they desperately need. And now that they`ve done this,
this state legislature is saying, "Whoa, that`s too much. We need to cut
you off at the knees and we`re going to prevent you from converting to
charter schools and getting any of these additional dollars."

SCHULTZ: Lydia, what do you make of that?

HERNANDEZ: Like I said, I`ve said it on school board for the last 13 years
and that is just, you know, that is -- they`re going back in their word.
It was their idea. They`re intended to do this. And now, that we found an
opportunity for public schools to be able to take advantage of some of
those opportunities and getting more moneys for pupils, we need that money.
So, I think that this is not -- they`re going back on their word. I think
they`ve got to honor that. We began something. Our budget that came out
of the House gives money for that. We`re able to continue this.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HERNANDEZ: I think it`s -- we just -- it`s public education. It`s
education in general I think that we better prioritize and invest in our
future.

SCHULTZ: And Representative Hernandez, where are the parents? What`s the
-- is there any pushback. I mean, parents that are sending their kids to
public schools possibly and economically challenge neighborhoods, what are
they saying about this?

HERNANDEZ: Well, any parent wants the best education for their kids. And
what they`re saying is, I mean, it is getting a little bit more competitive
for our public schools. In fact, I`m going to share my story with my
district. We were failing more than half of our schools couple years ago.
However, we`ve turned that around. I mean, if we had additional moneys, I
think we could`ve take it to a lot more. We`re slightly short of an aid
right now, but I think those extra resources, I mean, would get us there.

So parents are wanting the best for their kids and they`re looking for
those best options. But they`re running. They like public education. I
want to be able, as an office holder, to be able to provide families and
parents and kids the best opportunity for education within our pubic school
systems.

SCHULTZ: Jennifer, is this the way to address public schools that are
struggling?

LOREDO: You know Ed, it is a sad -- it is sad that our public schools have
even how to turn the best because the legislature has literally cut all
funding for them for their capital needs and for their classroom supplies.
Arizona schools are actually getting less today than they got in 1998. Our
schools are starving out there. Our teachers need the resources. And
instead, what this legislature is doing is not only doing this charter
school stop, but they`re looking at siphoning off more dollars and giving
it directly to private schools to what we called the ESA voucher program in
Arizona.

That money is draining our state. It`s taking dollars that would be in
public education and giving them to private schools with zero
accountability. And anytime we try to attach any accountability measures
to voucher proposals, the opponents flat out opposing (ph) because they are
afraid of having any accountability to show what private schools really are
doing out there.

SCHULTZ: Quite a battle in Arizona. We will follow the story. Lydia
Hernandez, State Representative and also Jennifer Loredo, thanks for your
time tonight, appreciate it.

Coming up, Russia`s fear factor, Limbaugh`s excuse for Obamacare enrollment
is next and it`s in pretenders.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, fear and loathing Rush Limbaugh. The
ambulance says, "Put the pedal to the metal." The right winger says
"Obamacare only reached 7 million mark because enrollees are scared."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW": OK. They`ve got 7 million, how
many have been signing up out of fear? How many of them think, "My God, if
I don`t sign up, I`ve got to pay a penalty and I might go to jail"?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Oh, probably all of them Rush, the real fear monger is Limbaugh
himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIMBAUGH: People are divorcing in order to afford Obamacare. It is
busting up families. Obamacare is going to increase the divorce rate.

They were caught trying to sneak in the death panels. It is long lines.
It is red tape, its delays in care, its denials of coverage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yeah. You`re going to get divorce because you got healthcare.
That`s a hell of a tactic, and that fear is not a winning tactic, it didn`t
work for you Rush. Americans are overjoyed to have an affordable
healthcare option. But if Rush Limbaugh thinks pouting (ph) he`s making a
point, he can keep on pretending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work.

A United Nations scientific panel reports says global warming could spiral
out of control. Environmentalists blame the Keystone XL Pipeline will be a
major contributor to global warming. Technology industry executive wrote a
letter to Secretary of State John Kerry encouraging him to block and
recommend the president to block the Keystone XL project.

They disagree with the State Department report released in January, and
said that the pipeline would not substantially increase carbon emissions.
Native American tribes in South Dakota are also engaging. They`re standing
up with the pipeline by setting up prayer camps. They have concerns about
their sovereign rights being violated by the project but they also want
more attention to be paid to the environmental impact.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL EAGLE BEAR, ROSEBUD SIOUX TRIBE: There`s been lot of hardship on
our people, but we`re going to take a stand here and we`re going to stand
in a way of that construction if he does decide to sign. But we`re hoping
he doesn`t. And we`re actually asking our leadership, our Congress, our
senators to take a real good look at the environmental impact statement
that was submitted to Department of State.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The United Nations report concludes responding to climate change
involves making choices about risks and there`s no doubt that Keystone XL
Pipeline is a well-documented risk when it comes to leaks.

Robert Kennedy Jr., President of Waterkeeper Alliance joins us tonight.
Great to have you with us.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., PRESIDENT, WATERKEEPER ALLIANCE: Thanks Ed.

SCHULTZ: This report by the United Nations clears the beach of any doubt,
whatsoever. What`s the most .

KENNEDY: That was right .

SCHULTZ: . significant thing?

KENNEDY: They`ve done -- they do want to do is support (ph) everybody or
just call the intergovernmental panel in climate change, 12,000 peer-
reviewed studies on climate change that are reviewed by 300 of the top
climatologist from 70 countries around the world. This one is definitive.
It`s as we are causing -- we have the principal cause of human beings,
global warming, and that its impacts are going to be cataclysmic. We are
already losing as a result of man-made global warming, 2 percent of crop
production around the globe.

We`re seeing water shortages, food supply source shortages. We`re seeing
that glaciers melt on every continent of the globe. The Arctic sea ice
disappear. The Antarctic and Greenland are thawing and losing huge amounts
of their mass. We`re seeing the sea level rising that within three decades
is going to displace 18 million people in Bangladesh and elsewhere around
the world. Place like Florida or lying places. But, and what they say is
that our failure to address this issue is the gravest threat about the
human rights and to civilization and the national security.

SCHULTZ: Bottom line.

KENNEDY: That`s the bottom line.

SCHULTZ: Exxon campaign of deception. I hear it. What is it? What do
they do?

KENNEDY: Well, Exxon Corporation and more recently the Koch Brothers have,
according to Brewer (ph) report, putting more than $500 million over the
past decade and a half to deceive the public about the impacts of global
warming. They`ve created a network of same tanks in Washington D.C. so
called free market tank act, but they`re not about free markets. They`re
about insuring corporate profit taking without interference, without
regulatory interference.

As we talked about last night, it`s about insuring -- it`s not about free
markets, it`s about socialism for the rich and capitalism, a very merciless
savage capitalism for the poor. And all of those same tanks are stocked
with this (inaudible) scientist and we call them biostitutes, but they are
tobacco scientists. There are -- some of them are actually veterans of the
tobacco era.

And you remember, in 1998, I believe, when the seven CEOs with the seven
tobacco companies came before Congress, Waxman`s committee raised their
right hand and swore under oath that they did not believe that tobacco had
any health impacts and that it was not addictive. And Exxon, you know,
that`s what the tobacco industry which was killing one out of every four of
its customers. They used its product as directed. They were able to avoid
regulations with that kind of deception for 60 years.

Well, Exxon is the richest company in the history of the world. The
biggest profits in the history (ph) of the world and they have a lot higher
stakes and they have given $500 million dollars to buy politicians and to
deceive the public about the impacts of global warming to feel this whole
denier movement and its work.

Now, they say -- now, Exxon has stopped that campaign. They are secretly
funding them, but publicly, Exxon is saying we understand that global
warming is -- does exist but we don`t care. We are going to barbecue the
planet and we are going to burn all the oil that`s on our book reserves
which is three times the nautical (ph) oil that this report says will
destroy civilization.

SCHULTZ: Amazing. We will have to have you back to talk more about this.
This is really on the front door of the president right now. And quickly,
does the Keystone XL Pipeline play right into this? Does this president
(inaudible) .

KENNEDY: Yes.

SCHULTZ: . over this?

KENNEDY: Yeah. I do not see -- after this report, I do not see how the
president can approve the Keystone.

SCHULTZ: OK. Robert Kennedy Jr. great to have you with us tonight.

KENNEDY: You bet.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much. You bet.

And make sure to watch tomorrow because we`re going to have more on the
Rosebud Sioux Tribe from South Dakota. They`re effort to stop the pipeline
as we continue our Divided Heartland series.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz. Politics Nation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now. Good evening, Rev.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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