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The Ed Show for Thursday, April 24, 2014

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April 24, 2014

Guest: Mike Papantonio, Zerlina Maxwell, Art Tanderup, Wendell Potter,
Casey Camp, Lori Wallach

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York.

I`m ready to go. Let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to tell you one more thing. I know about the

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bundy`s 15 minutes of fame are now 15 minutes of

CLIVEN BUNDY, NEVADA RANCHER: And I`ve often wondered, are they better off
as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lawmakers who saw him as a patriot on the jump last

BUNDY: And there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the
porch. They didn`t have nothing to do.


BUNDY: Because they never learn how to pick cotton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) here and then picks and them shovels.

BUNDY: Or are they better of as plain?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you slay (ph), you sing like birds.

BUNDY: Or are they better of in the government subsidy?

UNIDENITIFIED MALE: This is a welfare cowboy.

BUNDY: And I often want it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ll see what Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and others
who`ve supported Mr. Bundy on what they say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His comments are beyond repugnance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they come back, I`ll be out there with you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beyond repugnant to me.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.
You know, for days now with this Bundy situation. The conservatives have
been so concerned about the bureau of land management. Why did they show
up with all those agents? Why did they show up with all those firearms and
so much firepower?

Oh maybe they knew a little bit more about this guy than Sean Hannity.
Maybe they knew that this guy was a racist and could fly off the handle and
start shooting. Maybe the BLM was actually doing their job. Maybe they
researched something Sean Hannity has assured on.

You see this all starts from jumping on the bandwagon because we might get
a Democrat, we might get a Liberal. That`s the root of this. Republicans,
they are always looking for the enemy within the government. The
government is always the bad guy. It`s ObamaCare. It`s Benghazi. It`s
the IRS. It`s fast and furious. I mean the list, it goes on and on. It`s
a multiple choice.

Today, there`s a new boogeyman for the Republicans. It`s the Bureau of
Land Management. Republicans are now absolutely obsessed with this federal
government agency.

They claim that the BLM is just out of control. They don`t know how to do
things. The new movement against this government agency is being led by
none other than Sean Hannity. These jokers can`t get enough airtime.
Hannity is shameful and that is exactly what it is.

It`s not journalism in any sense of the word. It is shameful coverage of a
law breaking rancher named Cliven Bundy and it has literally put the Bureau
of Land Management in the crosshairs of sniper rifles.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is major concern that the federal government
could be eyeing yet another massive land grab. This time, it`s Northern

Now, the States Attorney Greg Abbott is warning that the BLM wants to seize
over 90,000 acres of land near the Red River close to the border of

There are shocking new video of the destruction left behind by the bureau
of land management after it took over Cliven Bundy`s ranch according to
online reports. A former Nevada sheriff claims that his sources inside the
federal government say that the bureau of land management maybe quietly
planning to raid the Bundy ranch.

Frankly, I thought there was a lack of proportionality here by the
government and snipers, and surrounding your ranch, and taking your cattle.
None of them made any sense and I think there`s got to be more peaceful
way. Do you worry that in fact they may kill either your dad or somebody
in your family?


SCHULTZ: Is there any doubt Sean Hannity is a huge Cliven Bundy supporter?
Hannity has used his show as a platform to let this law breaker talk down
the federal government numerous times.


BUNDY: Harry, get your army out in Nevada. Get your army away from my
ranch and all the court county public plan and keep it out and if they
come, we`ll deal with them tonight.

Every County sheriff across the United States -- that these harm the
federal bureaucrats. Take the federal bureaucrats -- federal United States
bureaucrat`s guns away.

SEN. HARRY REID, (D) NEVADA: I do break federal laws everyday. We have --
they are really lost the feds. I don`t recognize their jurisdiction or
authority. So no, I wouldn`t go with him.


SCHULTZ: None of those comments were ever challenged on Fox News
especially not by Hannity.

Cliven Bundy has now appeared on Hannity`s show seven times. His airtime
on Fox News has now top 53 minutes. Sean Hannity has admitted. He`s
gotten to know Bundy very well.


SEAN HANNITY, THE SEAN HANNITY SHOW HOST: You know Cliven, I`ve gotten to
know you now over this -- as this controversy is unfolding. You and your
family seemed like really nice people.


SCHULTZ: Really nice people. Sean`s got to know him really well. Well,
it turns out that Sean Hannity isn`t the best judge of character.

Hannity`s good friend Cliven Bundy is not only a law breaker. He`s a flat
out racist. Here`s what Cliven Bundy said about African-Americans on
government assistance on Saturday.


BUNDY: I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro. When I
go through Las Vegas, North Las Vegas and I would see these little
government houses, and in front of that government house the door was
usually open and the older people and the kids and there is always at least
half a dozen people sitting on the porch, they didn`t have nothing to do.
They didn`t have nothing for their kids to do.

They didn`t have nothing for their young girls to do. And because they
were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do? they abort
their young children. They put their young men in jail because they never
learned how to pick cotton. And I`ve often wondered, are they better off
as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are
they better off under government subsidy? You know, they didn`t get no
more freedom. They got less freedom.


SCHULTZ: What do you think? Do you think Bundy could host a show on Fox
News? I don`t think that I have ever seen such a blatant shocking example
of flat out racism.

Now, let`s get this all straight here folks. The welfare free loading
rancher who refuses to pay his fees to the federal government is
complaining about black people on government assistance. I think it`s
important to point out just who brought this free loading racist rancher
into the national spotlight.

Well, it`s promotional hack Sean Hannity. Just last week, Sean Hannity was
ready to go to stand alongside Bundy to protest the federal government the
next time they show up.


HANNITY: I fear guys this is not over. I would take Harry Reid`s
admonition warning seriously and if I was scheduled to be out there tonight
of this didn`t end this weekend, if he -- if they come back I`ll be out
there with you.


SCHULTZ: No plane to go in Sean? Come on. This is the first questionable
human being that Sean Hannity has supported on this program. Let`s see,
there is the racist gun-toting, hard rocking Ted Nugent.

Nugent has admitted that, hey, he`s a friend of the show. Then there was
this guy name George Zimmerman, remember him? Hannity used his show as a
platform to support someone who is responsible for the killing of an
unarmed teenager. There is also the infamous softball pick-up truck
interview with George W. Bush.


HANNITY: Is this your favorite place?

coming here and there was great than the presidency to come here to .

HANNITY: Quite a mess.

BUSH: Yeah. Well, they gave me a chance to get outdoors and exercise and
to work at countryside, you know, cutting down sitters (ph).


SCHULTZ: Surprisingly, there were no questions about lying his way into a
war of choice. Now, we have the latest and possibly the most dangerous
chapter in Sean Hannity`s television career. He is supporting a law
breaking racist gun-toting rancher.

Now, I haven`t been shy at all about criticizing Sean Hannity on this issue
on this show. Fox News needs to be called out on this. They have promoted
this. Clearly, I struck a nerve with Hannity.

On Monday, he attacked me and said that I was lying about my coverage to
this story.


SCHULTZ: Fox News and Sean Hannity should be ashamed of their coverage of
this law breaker in this law breaking Nevada rancher and his family. I
think Sean Hannity is cheerleading for armed conflict with the federal
government. Hannity and Fox News are playing with fire.

HANNITY: Now, the federal government, they lack a proportionality in sense
over a bill. Are they going to send 200 armed agents to everybody`s house?
Snipers to everybody`s house, really? Well, we`re not ashamed of our
coverage. We`re actually proud of our coverage.

Now, there`s not one thing that Ed Schultz said was true.


SCHULTZ: Proportionality. It`s only a million bucks. That`s chump change
to you folks out there in T.V land, didn`t it? He doesn`t have to pay it.
What I said was opinion and what I believe is that Hannity has been
trumping this thing up big time because it gave him a target to go after.

Now, I have backed-up everything that has been said on this program, Sean,
but facts. Our coverage of this story has been very clear. We`re not
lying. We approve it that you and Fox News support this guy and his arm
supporters. We approve it that Bundy is a law breaker and a freeloader and
there is a reason that federal agents were armed when they went out there,

It might have something to do with the way this guy thinks and talks and
acts. Cliven Bundy has said that he will do whatever it takes to break the
law. How our agents supposed to take that kind of rhetoric?

The Bureau of Land Management showed up with guns because they knew exactly
who this guy was and they -- last week on his program, I asked Hannity to
come out and defended that this image.

What would motivate an American citizen to take a sniper rifle and to take
up that position against federal agents who were doing their job? Hannity,
that`s who you`re supporting but you`re too stupid to know it. He hasn`t
come out and explained it, he won`t.

Sean Hannity won`t defend this image because he has admitted that he has
played a role in this scene.


HANNITY: In my mind, there`s no doubt that the fact that so many people
showed up to support you and I wouldn`t argue a little bit that the media
coverage that myself and some other people have given to this case played a
part in this because none of it made sense.


SCHULTZ: Played a part in it certainly no hype (ph) so ever. You`ve heard
it from Sean Hannity himself. He is proud of the role in defending this
racist antigovernment law breaker.

This is how Hannity got involved in all of this. There is the old saying
the enemy of my enemy is my friend. This guy hates the President of the
United States. This guy hates Harry Reid. This guy hates the federal
government. I mean, this is a perfect mix for Hannity. Hannity what did
he do? Well, he heard all this, he jumped in. Oops, he`s a racist.

Hannity did what? Well, he did some supporting before he did the betting.
Hannity tried to distance himself from this entire mess today on his radio


HANNITY: His comments are beyond repugnant to me. They are beyond
despicable to me. They are beyond ignorant to me.


SCHULTZ: Really? Now, Sean, you`re on record. We`ve played the tape.
You said that you`re going to go out and stand with these folks that you
say are despicable. You`re saying that you`re going to go out and stand
with these folks when the Bureau of Land Management shows up again to
collect the million dollars or however they plan to handle it.

You know what`s interesting in all of this? What a hypocrite this guy is
right now. He is now trying to distance himself from Cliven Bundy now that
the scab has been ripped off and we know this thing is bleeding big time
bad for the Conservative movement who hate the federal government.

Do you remember a guy named -- yes, what was that guy`s name? Reverend
Jeremiah Wright. He was a friend of the, now president of the United
States, and he said some things and the President to be came out and gave a
speech on race and he distanced himself from the comments of the Reverend.
Sean Hannity gave him no quarter and now Sean Hannity is asking for almost
forgiveness by saying that what Cliven Bundy said was just for repugnant
and despicable. Oh no, no, no Sean no.

You see, Sean, you and Fox News, you dove in to this because it`s all based
in race hate and this is all part of what you`re all about. They hate
Obama. They hate the federal government. They hate any kind of federal
agency. You had to target and you used Harry Reid, Fox News used Harry
Reid and tried to turn it on a negative on the United States Senator that
has served this country for 31 years.

You thought Cliven Bundy was better than Harry Reid. If you wanted the
American people to see it and know it and feel it. Fox News, Sean Hannity
you got caught. Do you have the character Sean to stand up on your T.V
show tonight and say I was wrong? I can`t go out there and stand with
those law breaker. Come on Sean, I want to hear it. The world wants to
hear it. The cable viewers want to hear it but you can`t because you`re a

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think tonight`s
question. "Is Sean Hannity responsible for introducing America to Cliven
Bundy?" Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622, you can always go to our
blog at and leave a comment there. We`d love to hear from
you. We`ll bring the results of the poll later on in the show.

For more, let me bring me Zerlina Maxwell of and Ring of Fire
radio host and America`s lawyer Mike Papantonio, great to have both of you
with us tonight.

Mike you first. Sean Hannity went on his radio show today and called
Cliven Bundy`s comments beyond repugnant. Is this enough?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE RADIO HOST: No, it`s enough but you have to
understand as you do understand. You just mentioned the short list of
personalities that Fox talk machine has supported and defended in these
last few years range from Ted Nugent who called the President a subhuman
mongrel to Ann Coulter who said she wishes that Tim McVeigh had bombed all
the people in the New York Times building to Rush Limbaugh who has built
his entire following around ridiculing women, minorities and disabled
children for God sakes.

So it`s no surprise at all that so many of Sean Hannity types. Republican
minions came out and supported Bundy, he`s a racist, yes, that seemed to be
OK with him, he`s a dead beat, they seemed to overlook that. He has
antigovernment hate. He`s actually an antigovernment hate broker when you
really drill down and he`s almost a cultural has been overnight.

All of that fits in very well with the type of person that the Fox media
machine has been willing to embrace. Sean Hannity, Clive Bundy well
they`re the sinner of the new Republican brand for God sakes. You have to
conclude this Ed, real quickly and that is that either Rand Paul and -- who
is a Republican or Dean Heller who is a Republican or Sean Hannity who`s
the mouthpiece for the Republicans either they were too stupid to recognize
how hate driven this character was or worst yet, worst yet, we`re just
seeing them without their camouflage. They were caught without the

SCHULTZ: They ideologically jumped in before they did the betting and
don`t you think the Bureau of Land Management probably did some research on
what this Cliven Bundy is all about, Zerlina, your reaction to these
comments and how this has evolved.

ZERLINA MAXWELL, THEGRIO.COM: Well, I think that this is outrageous for
the Republicans to simply come out and say and say, "Well, he just went too
far by saying the Negro was better off doing slavery." That`s just a
little too far but we agree with him on everything else. The problem for
the Republican Party is they cannot rebrand because their policies are
racist, right?

They pander to racist because they support cutting food stamps, cutting
welfare, cutting all of the programs that help people of color. And so,
you can`t square that the policies that you support and the racist
rhetoric. That`s going to be an ongoing problem for them.

SCHULTZ: I have not heard the word Negro for years.

MAXWELL: Right. Right. I mean, you know, it`s generational for sure but
at the same time I think that, again, going back to the policies because
the policies that are hurting people of color, right? People color aren`t
able to make a living wage.

He is talking about abortion. He is saying black women, you know, abort
all of their children. Again, and the war on women going back to the war
on women, this goes back to policy. It`s rhetoric that`s outrageous but it
matches what he really believes in terms of policy.

SCHULTZ: So how does Hannity get out of this? I mean, he`s caught. He
has been supporting someone that is totally out of the mainstream,
completely radical and anti-American.


SCHULTZ: Go rep yourself on the flag now Sean. Go stand with him. That`s
what you said you were going to do. How does he get out of this?

MAXWELL: I think that he has to say that he was wrong. I think he needs
to acknowledge that he was wrong in supporting this particular person. I
don`t know that he will go as far as to say I`m never going to make this
mistake again but he has to acknowledge it that he made a mistake here
because it`s not just this one example, you know.

Like Mike said, we`re talking about Ted Nugent. We`re also talking about
the Duck Dynasty folks who said really something that was almost as
outrageous but not it`s just not quite.


MAXWELL: And then going also to Paul Ryan because it`s really a spectrum
here and they`re connecting all of these things to policy.

SCHULTZ: Mike, this guy is stealing from the federal government then he
criticizes people on government assistance. If that -- I just find that.
And that`s the end of the story right there, isn`t it?


PAPANTONIO: There doesn`t have to be anything rational here. That`s
what`s -- that`s what makes everybody so angry I guess about this. There
is never a rational connection to this but as I look at the story, the
headline is that you are who you hang-out with.


PAPANTONIO: For Sean, he has hang-out with these types of people for ages.


PAPANTONIO: The Republican Party has Ted Nugent around their neck, Ann
Coulter around their neck and now Cliven Bundy around their neck.


PAPANTONIO: God forbid they should have to hold on to Sean Hannity. I can
tell you, this Roger Ailes has built that business by making good decisions
to some degree. Now, the decision he has to make tonight is have we gone
too far.


PAPANTONIO: If Sean Hannity really apologize himself out of the obvious
here and that is that he simply is a knee jerk in every regard.

SCHULTZ: And Zerlina, what about Jeremiah Wright?


SCHULTZ: Hannity and Fox News gave the President of the United States no
quarter whatsoever when the President clearly was distancing himself from
Jeremiah Wright.

MAXWELL: But he still brings it up. I mean, on his radio show. He brings
up Jeremiah Wright all of the time and I think that the bottom-line for
Conservatives is they need to make a choice. Are they going to support
these kinds of people, the Ted Nugent`s of the world, the Cliven Bundy`s of
the world or are they going to think about .


MAXWELL: . the larger electorate and people of color.

SCHULTZ: Zerlina Maxwell, Mike Papantonio great to have you with us
tonight. Thank you so much.

Coming up, day 3 the Cowboy and Indian Alliance. They are winning allies
with their stand in Washington.

The Ed Show Original Series Divided Heartland: The American Debate
continues, but first even the most conservative southern states say that
they want to keep Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act.

Trenders is next. Stick around, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: What`s hot and what`s not. Time for the Trenders in social
media, this is where you can hook up with this,, and also The radio show, getting after
it, hot at all the time Sirius XM Channel 127, the Progress Channel noon to
three, Monday to Friday and you can get my podcast at

The Ed Show social media nation has decided, we`re reporting.

Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fool me twice strike three.

SCHULTZ: The number three Trender, sticky situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like we found (ph) some pine tar again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attempt to figuring this out of your mouth, Al.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they`re throwing him out of the game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ll see Gerry Davis` lips, he said that`s pine tar.

SCHULTZ: Pineda`s pine tar tricks get the Bronx bomber busted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would you do that? You know it`s against the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this goes on in baseball all the time and it has
since it began.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Considering, you know, his last tar against us is hard

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you really so obvious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a problem more than he had to deal with the
consequences and Michael`s going to have to deal with it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re in big trouble, mister.

SCHULTZ: The number two Trender, Herman who?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This pizza magnate and 2012 presidential candidate was
a math major at Historically Black Morehouse College.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got all this stuff twirling around in my head.

SCHULTZ: Jeopardy geniuses are stumped by Herman Cain`s credentials.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shuck it, duck it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quickly, you have forgotten Herman Cain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seriously, who is that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to go back and see.

SCHULTZ: And today`s top Trender, southern comfort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obamacare which the Republican staked everything on is
not quite the political disaster that it looked like last October.

SCHULTZ: This is not the big boogeyman that everybody has made it out to

Healthcare approval is on the rise in Southern States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you talk about the Affordable Care Act, you talk
about the benefits. The numbers start going way up. We`ve now signed up
over 413,000 Kentuckians for affordable health insurance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has turned around and I think it`s probably going to
keep getting a little bit better.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight Wendell Potter, Senior Analyst with the Center
for Public Integrity and author of the eBook "ObamaCare: What`s in it for
me?" Mr. Potter, good to have you with us tonight.

Your predictions day by day continue to come true. What I think we`re
seeing here is the death of a narrative. We are seeing the Conservatives
lose day by day, drip, drip, drip. This is more about misinformation than
it is the actual functioning of the law and what it`s doing for Americans.
Your thoughts.

and that`s even true in the south as you were just saying.

I was born in North Carolina, grew up in Tennessee, lived in Georgia, and
Virginia and Kentucky. There are hundreds of thousands of folks in the
South who were benefiting. They`re finally saying how they are benefiting
from the Affordable Care Act.

These campaigns that they`ve been running for a long time, they have the
core of one thing and that is if they`re based on fear, uncertainty and
doubt and that only works in advance of something happening.

Now that the Affordable Care Act is implemented and people are signing up,
we`ve already hit more than eight million people signing up for coverage
and many more to the Medicaid expansion. People are saying that it`s
really helping people. So those campaigns just don`t work anymore like
they did back in the fall.

SCHULTZ: Insurance company profits have not gone backwards. They`re doing

POTTER: Right.

SCHULTZ: They`ve got new customers. So what`s the next Republican attack
on healthcare if their repeal strategy is in the ditch and it`s a loser
with voters?

POTTER: Well, I think they`re going to continue to try to figure out maybe
there is someway that they can scare people in the future to get them to
vote Republican, to vote against the Democrats who support the Affordable
Care Act.

I think that you`ll be seeing -- they`ve already -- they`re trying this but
not -- it`s not catching on but they`ll keep trying to say that "Well, just
wait until next year because premiums will go up a lot more next year."
That dog didn`t hunt this year because premiums did not go up as much as
they predict. In fact, many people who were signing up for coverage have
been surprised at how much less they`re having to pay for coverage than I
thought they would and how much less they had to pay last year.

SCHULTZ: So what are we going to be talking about .

POTTER: I think that`s what they`re going to do.

SCHULTZ: And what do you think you and I think are going to be talking
about in October and not in April? I mean if what we were talking about
last October and what we`re talking about right now is totally different.
There was a lot of hope and change back in October that this number one
website was going to be fixed, that it was going to function, that people
would actually respond, that young people would get into the process.

Look where we were, look where we are, where are we going to be?

POTTER: Yes, you know, it depends a lot on how the Democratic candidates
position their campaigns in the months coming up. If they are going to
have a backbone, if they really start talking about the benefits own up to
this law and the benefits of what it really means to this country and to
their constituents that will shape the narrative. That`s what should
happen and I think that with what we`re seeing over the last several weeks,
I think that we`re going to see more and more and Democrats doing that.

SCHULTZ: All right. Wendell Potter, great to have you with us tonight.
Thank you so much. The numbers do tell the story.

Still ahead, anti-Keystone activists show Washington what it is like to
have an oil pipeline running through its backyard.

And later, why corporations are now joining unions in the fight against bad
trade deals like the TPP.

But next, I`m taking your questions Ask Ed Live, just ahead here on the Ed
Show on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back the Ed Show. Love hearing from our viewers, love
the questions, and thank you. Ask Ed Live.

Our first question tonight comes from Carmen (ph). She wants to know,
"Have you made plans to go fishing this summer?" Have I got plans? I love
plans. I love plans with the outdoors. Big time. Yes. Big Ed is North
Country lives (ph), that`s a given. I`m going to go to Sheboygan,
Wisconsin this summer, in July, because the salmon fishing there -- I like
Sheboygan, I like their port, and I love their shoreline. But they really
do have fantastic salmon fishing there. So I`m really looking forward to
that. That`s one thing I`m going to do.

I`m not going to be able to go to the place I`ve wanted to go my whole life
because the midterm is coming up. We`re going to be busy in August. But I
want to go to the Kamchatka Peninsula in Eastern Russia. They have the
most fabulous trap fishing. Someday I`m going to get there. It`s a plan.
It`s a dream. I`m not there yet.

Stick around. Rapid Response Panel is next.

SUE HERERA, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Sue Herera with your CNBC Market Wrap.

Stocks ended little change today. The Dow finished basically flat, the S
and P 500 up three, and the Nasdaq gained 21.

Lots of earnings and after hours trading to tell you about.
shares are slightly higher after it reported revenue that beat estimates.
Earnings were inline with expectations.

Microsoft`s profits came in ahead of expectations, sending net stock higher
by more than 2 percent. And over Starbucks, shares are also rising after
its earnings meet analyst estimates.

And that`s it from CNBC. We are first in business worldwide. We`re back
after a quick break.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Well, the Republican Party, we all
know, is masterful in spreading misinformation. Recently conservatives
have been false claims about the environment. Kentucky Senator Rand Paul
was asked whether he believes climate change exists and if it`s a manmade


SEN. RAND PAUL, (R) KENTUCKY: I think that scientific debate should not be
dumb down to politics. And I think this debate has become so dumb down
beyond belief.


SCHULTZ: Whatever that means. There are absolutes my friend. Rand Paul
went on to make a bunch of inaccurate statements about climate science.


PAUL: I think that scientific debate should not be dumb down to politics.
And I think this debate has become so dumb down beyond belief. The earth
is 4.5, 4 or 4.6 billion years old. Anybody who`s ever studied in geology
knows that over periods of time, long periods of time that the climate
changes, OK? I`m not sure anybody exactly knows why, but we have 20,000-
30,000, 100,000 years sort of cycles that go along with the climate. It
has been much warmer than it is today. We have, you know, a real data
about a 100 years.

So, somebody tell me what a 100 years data is and then earth is 4.6 billion
years old. My guess is that the conclusions that you make from that are
not conclusive.


SCHULTZ: Has nothing to do with the combustion engine or emissions
whatsoever. We had them back way back in the 1600-1700s, didn`t they? Any
climate scientist would disagree with the senator. This is why it`s so
important to have real conservations with real facts about climate change.

Right now, in our nation`s capital, a group farmers, Native American tribes
have -- well, have come together. They`re not all politically aligned on
everything but they want to talk about what is a real concern to them and
that is the environment. They`ve gathered together to protest the Keystone
XL Pipeline. They say the pipeline would have adverse effects on their
land, water, and livelihood.

Joining me now in our Rapid Response Panel, Art Tanderup, he is farmer from
Nebraska whose land is along the proposed Keystone route, and Casey Camp, a
Ponca Tribal Leader. Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Art, I want to ask you first. You know, when I met you several months ago,
you didn`t seem like you`re a guy that`s ever go to Washington to do any
protesting. This is a probably a first for you. I am assuming that.
You`re a guy that loves the land and farming your whole life. I`m curious
to know what kind of response, how would you characterize the curiosity and
the response of the people that you`ve run into there in Washington around
the T.P. camp.

ART TANDERUP, NEBRASKA FARMER: Like you said Ed, I would have never
imagined I`d be here doing something like this. And the response around
the T.P. camp has been great. Ed, you know, we`ve formed that alliance of
farmers, ranchers, and Native Americans to cooperate and work together to
stop this pipeline so that it does not populate the Ogallala Aquifer, it
does not ruin the land, and it does not ruin the health of our people.

So, the people here are in unison with that message. And it`s something
that everyone needs to realize. There is significant danger in further
mining these tar sands and refining them.

SCHULTZ: And you think this is having an impact?


SCHULTZ: Casey, would the pipeline cross on your land and would it be
going and causing a problem on some sacred land on the Ponca Trail of Tears
for instance, what about that?

CASEY CAMP, PONCA TRIBAL LEADER: Absolutely true Ed. And one of the
things that one has to realize, as a Ponca woman, I am here to protect my
family and my generations to come, the unborn. Because that is a -- the
fact is, we live in environmental genocidal process already, with
ConocoPhillips on our land, with many other environmental stressors that
are literally killing us with one funeral a week.

And this particular pipeline would not only come to where we are right now.
As the Obama Administration has already fast tracked the Southern end, but
it would also impact our ancestral land that is now under the care taking
of our farmer, rancher, cowboy friends. And it would also endanger all of
the world`s ability to control climate change, because we know it`s a
reality. The scientists proved it`s a reality. And we of the indigenous
nations have watched these giant tornadoes, hurricanes, the rise in sea
levels. The refugees as a result of climate change.

But we are also aware here in Oklahoma, we had four earthquakes in 2008,
and now we`re having hundreds as a result of the fracking and injection
wells. So what happens when you put a big pipeline through there and the
earthquakes happen from the extractive industries` practices? We know for
certain that the scientists tell us, the largest manmade earthquake that
has ever happened was the 5.4 magnitude in Oklahoma from injection wells.

SCHULTZ: Do you think your message is going to be heard? Do you think
this is going to have an impact?

CAMP: It is being heard. Ed, we`re talking to you. We know that you`ve
got a big audience. We know that among ourselves, we all are reaching out
in all directions. We`ve had people here from every country. No one wants
Keystone XL.


CAMP: We want to rebalance ourselves.

SCHULTZ: The American Petroleum Institute released data today from a poll
which says the majority of American voters support building the Keystone XL
Pipeline. Why do you think that is, and do you think this is because
they`ve been hearing misinformation about it?

CAMP: Well, I think it`s a very pitiful situation because they`ve been
lied to. They haven`t been told that the dangers that virtually, every
pump station by TransCanada`s records has leaked. They haven`t been told
that this isn`t even going to the United States market. This is going to a
free market down in Houston. They haven`t been told that those jobs are
transient jobs of maybe 2000 at the maximum that will happen, and the rest
of them travel with the pipeline.


CAMP: They haven`t been told that the amount of energy it takes to create
this form of energy is multiplied many times over other than the way that
the oil is. They haven`t been told that there`s a genocidal process
happening in Alberta, Kansas and that the excavation will be the size of
Florida. If they we`re told and informed and they want to have their
grandchildren have a place to live here on earth, they`d all say no.

SCHULTZ: Art, recently, TransCanada started an advertising campaign in
Nebraska trying to influence state residents about the pipeline. Do you
think it`s going to work, and a lot of people believe that there`s nothing
but misinformation in there. Your thoughts on that.

TANDERUP: Yes. There is much, much misinformation in those ads. They`re
running T.V. ads, radio ads, you know, half page newspaper ads in local
papers. They`re outworking the trenches trying to buy more farmers into
signing easements. They`re offering significant signing bonuses and
they`re getting a few. But, there are many of us that, no, that we cannot
or we cannot have this pipe.

SCHULTZ: OK. Obviously, the activist, such as yourself, don`t have the
advertising budgets that the big corporations do. So the polls certainly
don`t surprise me at all, but the numbers have shifted quite a bit and it`s
going to be interesting to see how it all unfolds. We will stay on top of
the story.

Art Tanderup and Casey Camp, thank you for being with us tonight. You
(inaudible) the information, no doubt.

Still ahead, Rand Paul says Republicans may -- they may have exaggerated
the threat of voter fraud? Maybe pretenders, really? Maybe? Maybe
they`re Pretenders, next.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, Call Me Maybe, Rand Paul. The Senator
from Kentucky sat down with David Axelrod during his grand tour to dress up
the GOP`s image. Rand Paul still can`t confront the GOP`s love affair with
voter intimidation.


PAUL: Dead people still do vote in some elections.


PAUL: There still is some fraud. And so, we should stop that, and one of
way of doing it is .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the incidence of fraud is relatively .

PAUL: I thought yes.


PAUL: And I think Republicans may have over emphasized this. I don`t


SCHULTZ: Rand Paul doesn`t know, but we do. Here is just some of the GOP


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one person gets one vote, not two or three or four
or five.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw it in the law last year, voter I.D. It`s stuck
in the course as it is often the case. But we will ultimately prevail.
Unfortunately, we didn`t have it before the November election, but we will
have it in the future.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the question of voter fraud is very real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many of those from the extreme left who have been
criticizing photo I.D. are using scare tactics.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want dead people voting in the State of South

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Voter I.D. which is going to allowed Governor Romney to
win the State of Pennsylvania, done.


SCHULTZ: I don`t know Rand. What do you think? They might have over
played it a little bit. Republicans have worked tirelessly to black
minorities, the elderly and low income Americans from polling places. It`s
a fact. Rampant voter fraud around the country hardly exists, but
disenfranchisement certainly does. If Rand Paul thinks there is any
confusion between protecting the vote and suppressing it, he can keep on


SCHULTZ: Welcome to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who take
a shower after work. After four years of sole (ph) negotiations, the
Trans-Pacific Partnership is back at the spotlight as President Obama
continues his tour through Asia.


progress in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, TPP, which will support good
jobs and growth in the United States as well as economic reform and
revitalization here in Japan. So now is the time for bold steps that are
needed to reach a conference of agreement and I continue to believe we can
get this done.


SCHULTZ: President Obama is pushing for bold steps in Japan, but the TPP
faces tough opposition back home. I`m not just talking about activists who
want better global enforcement of the environmental standards and I`m not
just talking about unions who want better global enforcement of a labor
standards. I`m talking about big companies like Ford. Steve Biegun,
current head of Ford`s international lobbying operations voiced his
concerns, his company`s concerns over currency manipulation particularly in

Biegun told the Huffington Post, "When I came here, we supported every
trade agreement, and not a single one worked for us. I don`t know how you
ask somebody who puts in a hard day at an automotive plant to support a
free trade agreement that allows another country to cheat them, because
that`s what it is. It`s cheating."

Joining me tonight, Lori Wallach, Director of Public Citizen`s Global Trade
Watch. Lori, good to have you with us tonight. I mean, the President
clearly has to hear that from a major company in the United States. We all
know that Japanese loved to make cars and ship from here to the United
States, what can the President do about currency manipulation other than
call them on the carpet?

is a call to have disciplines inside the TPP that would actually put
sanctions on countries that were cheating by lowering their currency. And
there is 60 senators and 230 House members, Democrats and Republicans who
said that. It has to be end but the Obama administration so far has simply
refused to even raise that issue in the TPP negotiation.

SCHULTZ: Why is that, you think? Why is the President not paying
attention to -- not only in his own party but business leaders around the
country on this? Why he is so adamant about the TPP deal?

WALLACH: You know, its baffling how he can talk about it creating jobs
when everyone knows that we create a bigger trade deficits. It`s NAFTA on
steroids and shift more jobs offshore. But I think why it really is for is
to put into place all of these other corporate proposals that`s basically
have failed in Congress. And why President Obama would push things like
financial deregulation, raising medicine prices, stamping out by America .


WALLACH: . for the companies, they try to make sure he didn`t get
reelected, no one can figure out.

SCHULTZ: All right. President Obama addressed the issue of market access.
Take a listen to this.


OBAMA: I`ve been very clear and honest that American manufacturers and
farmers need to have meaningful access through markets that are included
under TPP including here in Japan. That`s what it will make a good deal
for America, for our workers and our consumers, and our families, that`s my
bottom line, and I can`t accept anything less.


SCHULTZ: Your response to that. Will he stand by his bottom line?

WALLACH: Well, the good news for everybody is that they didn`t cut a deal
right now between the President and the Prime Minister of Japan. And given
that, this was supposed to be one of those make or break moments where they
had to make a deal because after all these years, negotiations are stuck,
et cetera. You`d figure it`s about time for them to just bury the TPP,
just call it quits. The thing is not going to fly.

But unfortunately, it`s animated by this powerful Blocker Corporations.


WALLACH: So it`s like come horror movie monster that will not die. So
we`re going to have to kill it.

SCHULTZ: All right. Lori Wallach, good to have to you with us tonight.
This is a big trip. A lot of people talking about this trip that the
President is on about security, this is about jobs, it`s about American
jobs, it`s about the TPP.

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Shultz.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening


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