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PoliticsNation, Thursday, May 15th, 2014

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May 15, 2014

Guest: Susan Milligan; Edgar Gonzalez, Brian Wice, Zerlina Maxwell, Abby
Huntsman, Travis Boyd

Schultz. "Politics Nation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.

Good evening, Rev.

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed, and thanks to you
for tuning in. I`m live tonight in Los Angeles.

Tonight`s lead, exposing Karl Rove and the GOP smear machine. Rove`s
attacks on Hillary Clinton`s bring, follow the same play book we`ve seen
the right use for years. And this time they`re so blatant even one of
Rove`s colleagues at FOX News, Chris Wallace, is calling him out.


CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I think Karl Rove knew exactly what he was
doing. My guess is that even if he knows that, you know, there`s no
indication that she has brain damage, he kind of probably is laughing
himself to sleep at night, well, I got the Clintons, you know, on the front
page and she`s a target now.


SHARPTON: No truth? No problem. Rove now suggesting Hillary Clinton had
brain damage was inappropriate and didn`t have an ounce of truth. But as
long as it made headlines, he didn`t care. He also reportedly said Clinton
was in the hospital for a month when it was really just a few days. And
even last night, he wouldn`t back down.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I read your comments she wasn`t in the
hospital 30 day. She was in the hospital four days. She did come out with
the glasses that you referenced. Nobody knows for sure what happened here.
What was it you did say, what were you communicating?

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, well, look. Here`s the deal. This
is a 30-day-long episode.


SHARPTON: Three days or 30 days? It doesn`t matter to the GOP smear
machine. They don`t need facts. They just need to put this poison into
the ground water.

Now right wing pundits are even demanding to see her medical records.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is fair game for us to be able to look at
her medical records about what happened in 2012.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they want to set the record straight, just release
her health records.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Hillary has done herself a disservice. When she
suffered this illness, she was a public servant. She was the secretary of
state. She could have ended this by making her records public at that
time. Then we wouldn`t really be talking about it this time.


SHARPTON: Demanding records? Suggesting there`s some kind of conspiracy?
Where have we seen that before?


this guy`s birth certificate.

HANNITY: Where are all the history of Obama? Transparency, his college
transcripts, his writings, where are they?.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) is the easiest problem to solve. All
right, the president has to do is show it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let him make this challenge. I`ll release my tax
returns when Barack Obama releases his college transcripts and the copy of
his admission records to show whether or not he got any loans as a foreign

TRUMP: Perhaps it`s going to say Hawaii. Perhaps it`s going to say Kenya.


SHARPTON: That`s right. Republicans are using the same dirty tricks they
used against President Obama against Hillary Clinton. It didn`t work
against him then and it won`t work against her now.

Joining me now are Dana Milbank and Karen Finney.

Thank you both for being here.



SHARPTON: Dana, aren`t these new attacks on Hillary a textbook case of how
the smear machine operates?

MILBANK: Yes, it is, Reverend. But the difference is that, I don`t think
Karl Rove meant to get it out here so early. She`s not even a candidate
yet and the whole idea of a dirty tricks campaign, which has been Rove`s
specialty over the years, you want to great nit there when it`s very
difficult for them to respond to. And you see, the huge backlash this has
caused right now. But it certainly follows, if not in timing, at least the
idea of it. Throw out something outlandish and prove you don`t have brain
damage, prove you weren`t born in Kenya to put it on the other side, to
keep the thing alive.

SHARPTON: You know, Karen, even if it might have been earlier than usual,
he wasn`t down playing it. I mean, he was supposedly down playing it in
his comments, but he really just was doubling down. Listen to him last


KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: If you`re going to turn 69 two weeks
before the 2016 election and if you have this kind of a serious health
incident and if you get elected you`re going to serve, you might want to
for eight years, you`re going to be 77 at the end of it. And my point was,
she`ll have to deal with this at some point and be more forthcoming.

We have only heard in press spokesman and we have heard from her doctors in
the form of a 119-word printed statement. Is this going to be the issue of
the 2016 presidential campaign if she runs? No, it`s going to be a minor
thing. There are going to be bigger issues that predominate the campaign.


SHARPTON: It is going to be a minor thing. Is this going t be the issue?
But while I`m on my way to calling it minor, I`m going to give you
everything all over again. After I double down on what I`m saying doesn`t
matter if I explain it for two minutes.

FINNEY: And I have to tell you, that is why I disagree with Dana on the
point that I don`t think -- I think Karl Rove knew exactly what he was
doing with regard to the timing because he put it out there in one form.
Then he gets a little backlash. He has an opportunity to repeat the same
charge again.

Now, what we`re talking about all week is what he said about Hillary. And
we`re talking about her health and we are talking about those glasses. And
we are talking about what happened? Was it three days, was it 30 days?

And remember that this is how all of these things get fed into the
conservative machine, right? It will go on the internet. It will go
through talk radio. And it will be there, just waiting to be tabbed again,
should she run for president. So I actually think he knew exactly what he
was doing with regard to timing.

SHARPTON: And Dana, haven`t they been trying to do this to President Obama
for the last five years now?

MILBANK: Well, right in and now it just pivoted. So that the select
committee that`s investigating Benghazi now, which is another very similar
thing, prove some nefarious conspiracy didn`t occur in Benghazi.

SHARPTON: Well, wait a minute. Let me hold you there a minute, Dana.
Because today, that Senator Lindsey Graham called for another investigation
on Benghazi. And listen to who he kept bringing up.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Does this explain where the video
narrative came from? Does it start with Hillary Clinton? What does that
say about Benghazi and about her leadership abilities? What would
secretary Clinton say as to this excuse?


SHARPTON: So Benghazi, Benghazi, now Benghazi, Hillary Clinton. I mean,
this is becoming a real gift box for them just try to push forward.

MILBANK: I think so. And Karen is right. The Rove thing does get this
other issue out there into the pipeline. But I think the pipeline is
getting kind of clogged now with all the things that they`re blaming
Hillary Clinton for around the world.

You realized they`re even blaming her for the kidnappings in Nigeria. You
know, they`re blaming her for Monica Lewinsky coming out and giving an
interview on "Vanity Fair." Everything possible. So, surely, they are
going to start again with white water and with the travel office and
everything else. Yes, it may fire up the far right, but to everybody else,
it`s just a bunch of noise.

SHARPTON: You know, that`s my point, Karen, and everybody else. Because
Karl Rove is considered such a master mine in all of this, we`re hearing
over the last few days. But his groups, American Cross Roads and
Crossroads GPS, they spent $175 million in 2012 and elected zero winning
candidates, zero. I mean, so why would any Republicans be listening to
Karl Rove?

FINNEY: Well, indeed. And let`s not forget the meltdown that we saw on
election night 2012. You know, here is the thing. I think part of -- one
theory that I have heard like I tend to agree with it was that part of him
doing is to be align with the sort of main -- the sort of establishment
Republicans, right? So he`s saying I`m willing to go out there and take on
Hillary Clinton.

And I think, again, there`s -- as Dana points out, I do agree that a lot of
this is going to go to the very far right wing, but that`s where they raise
a lot of money. That`s where they get a lot of energy from that base.

And remember, the other thing he did is he also invoked the Rose law firm
and the billing records. And so, it goes also to what they`re trying to do
is undermine her credibility early and often.

SHARPTON: Well, you know, but Dana, the reality is, I think, that at the
end of the day, they`re trying to control the discussion. They are trying
to control a narrative. And if they can have everyone discuss things like
this, is there conspiracy around Benghazi, the Mrs. Clinton`s age, the
hospital, really no stories there. It keeps them from having to discuss
why they`re not dealing with things like minimum wage and unemployment
insurance benefits and things of that nature.

MILBANK: And it`s been going on for, what, 22 years now? The attacks on
Hillary Clinton. So, she is one of best known figures, if not the best
known figure in America right now. These smears work if someone is unknown
and they`re unformed in the view of the electorate.

People have a very firm view of Hillary Clinton. Some people don`t like
her. A lot of people do like her. It`s highly unlikely that Karl Rove is
going to waltz in and people are going to say, I never thought of that. I
never looked at Hillary that way before.

SHARPTON: Karen Finney, Dana Milbank, I`m going to have to leave it there.
Thank you both for your time tonight.

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

FINNEY: Thanks.

SHARPTON: And be sure to watch "Disrupt" with Karen Finney weekends at
4:00 p.m. eastern right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, an emotional day at the opening of the 9/11 museum. Today,
President Obama dedicated it to the victims and the heroes. Tonight, my
reflection on my personal unbreakable bond that started that day.

Plus, one of Chris Christie`s biggest allies is now questioning something
the governor said. It could open up new questions about what the governor
knew and when he knew it.

And could Monica Lewinsky be on the verge of a talk show job? Yes, Barbara
Walters has everyone talking about this today. The talk of the nation is


SHARPTON: Coming up, is Monica Lewinsky about to be hired adds a talk show
host? There`s a lot of social media buzz and we`ll talk about it.

But first, fast food workers protested in 150 cities today, demanding
higher wages. We`ll hear from someone leading that fight from right here
in Los Angeles, next.


SHARPTON: All over the country today, Americans took to the streets
demanding higher wages. Fast food workers protest in 150 cities. Los
Angeles, Chicago, Pittsburg and more. They had one message, no one should
working full time should be living in poverty and struggling to make ends

We saw this fight for fairness overseas as well with rallies taken places
in more than 30 countries across the globe. Because right here and right
now, things need to change.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold the burgers, hold the fries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: 21-year-old Charles Eden has been a Wendy`s
employee for three years. He wants to go back to school but says he can`t
afford to on his low wages.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: They say many workers are trying to raise
families on the money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But for many of us, we don`t have a choice but to work
here. We have restrictions with our kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It hurts so bad, because I have to explain to them
well, mommy wasn`t have the money to do this for you.


SHARPTON: This isn`t some abstract political debate in Washington. This
is about people deciding between going hungry or going homeless. And it`s
time, past time for politicians and companies to do the right thing.

Joining me now is Edgar Gonzalez who is one of the workers protesting for
higher wages today here in Los Angeles. And U.S. News and world reports
Susan Milligan.

Edgar, let me go with you first. You work full time at $8.25 an hour. How
hard is it to raise a family off of that?

student, it`s really hard for me to provide for my family, you know,
because I also want to go back to school. It`s really hard for me to
provide for my family, you know, because I also want to go back to school
but, it is really hard for me to afford with just eight bucks and hour.

You see I go to school, or you know, I pay my rent. And I support my
family, and my daughter was just born this 30th of April. So it`s been
really hard for us. And you know, I work really hard. I work for three
people a day, and McDonald`s is making billions and billions and billions
and they`re not willing to share a little bit with us.

SHARPTON: You had a daughter just two weeks ago?


SHARPTON: Now, Susan -- let me go to you, Susan. Because what he`s
raising -- I talked for about almost all of my three hours on my radio show
about this. And we keep hearing over and over again. And I got it today,
the right wing making absurd arguments for why we shouldn`t raise the
minimum wage. Take a listen.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: If you want to spur teenage hiring
lower the minimum wage or get rid of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Well, the minimum wage makes no sense whatsoever
to me. I mean, honestly, it`s just the teenage, black teenage unemployment

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we start talking about minimum wage at $15 an
hour, what we`re trying to say is mediocrity should be rewarded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why stop at $15? Why not raise the minimum wage to


SHARPTON: You know, here`s who is actually making minimum wage, Susan.
Eighty eight percent are 20 or older, 62 percent are women, 55 percent work
full time. We`re not talking about kids just coming out of school here.

SUSAN MILLIGAN, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: That`s exactly right. I mean,
when I was in high school, I worked in fast food and pretty much everybody
I worked with is 16 and 17 years old. I`m not saying it`s OK to mistreat
or underpaid people just because they are young. Myself was saving for
college, you know. And that`s the argument people made to pay women less.
But that`s not the reality anymore of who`s doing these minimum wage jobs.

The other thing is we`re not talking about -- I mean, we are talking about
the fast food industry which is where the protest for today, we are not
talking about mom and pop shops in Iowa where they might go under or, you
know, if they had to pay a great deal more. We`re talking multibillion
dollar company where is the CEOs are making millions and millions of

And it is true, they might have to raise prices if they raise salaries, but
it is the same argument you could make about health care. We`re all paying
for it for one way or another. People who don`t have health insurance, we
pay for them because they go to the emergency room, because they can`t get
care. When people are paying wages this low, the rest of us ended up
paying for it, and EITC and Medicaid and in food stamps because these are
people who can`t possibly afford to live on the wages they`re being paid.

SHARPTON: Edgar, let me go back to you. You talked about you`re working
for three people. You talked about your family. Give people around the
country a sense, how many of your colleagues, your co-workers, people you
work with have families they`re trying to feed off of these wages?

GONZALEZ: Most of the people I work with me are parents there. Older than
20. They`re older than 30. And, you know, it`s really hard for them to
maintain their families, so they have to get two jobs. And it`s really
hard to get two jobs. Why? Because we don`t have times to pay to our
kids. That`s when the kids go out on the streets because we don`t pay as
much attention to them because we`re working so hard to provide some food
for them. And I don`t feel it`s fair to --

SHARPTON: What would an increase in minimum wage mean for you? Tell me,
Edgar personally, if you got an increase in minimum wage, how would that
affect your life and the life of your family?

RODRIGUEZ: Getting minimum wage will mean me getting an education and me
contributing more to the economy. Why? Because I`m getting paid more,
I`ll be able to afford my lunches and, you know, contribute back to
McDonald`s as well because I got to pay for my lunches because I don`t have
money to eat.

So, you know, it will get me to continue my education, which I I`ve been
striving to do, but it`s been really hard. Now that I have my daughter, I
have to buy diapers, I got to buy formula. And you know, it will make it
better on my daughter as well.

SHARPTON: You know, Susan, point is a lot of the people on the right, and
I kept hearing this today, act as though minimum wage would be a handout.
Edgar is a case in point. Handout? They`re working. They`re working many
hours a day. And they want to be constructive, well educated, taxpaying

MILLIGAN: Well, yes. I mean, I think the whole idea is that people who
are working full time shouldn`t have to rely on government assistance just
to survive.

The other thing is, and Edgar brings up a good point, that it also drives
the rest of the economy. The whole ethic behind the automobile companies
way back when was somebody who worked at ford should be able to buy a Ford.

If you have people working at McDonald`s who can`t afford to buy their
lunch at McDonald`s, there`s something not quite right about that. And
when they can`t afford to be outspending money, our economy is, I think, it
is 70 percent consumer driven. That ends up hurting the economy as a

SHARPTON: Edgar Gonzalez and by the way, Edgar congratulations on your new
child. I was going to join you all today. We got in the Freeway. And
Susan Milligan, thank you for your time this evening.

MILLIGAN: Of course.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, a new bridgegate headache for Chris Christie. A
key former ally is now saying there are big problems with Christie`s story.

Also, would you watch Monica Lewinsky on daytime TV? Lots of folks are
buzzing about where she might end up.


SHARPTON: Was governor Christie caught not telling the truth about who
knew of the bridgegate plan? His former campaign manager is not happy and
he`s demanding a correction. The plot thickens, next.


SHARPTON: What did governor Christie know and when did he know it? These
questions, and those are the questions, really, that are at the heart of
this bridgegate investigation.

Today, we`re learning more, and it contradicts what the governor has said.
It comes from Bill Stepien, arguably at one time Christie`s closest ally.
His former campaign manager and the guy who was rumored to run Christie`s
2016 run for president. Stepien has taken the fifth, refusing to hand over
documents. He`s connected to all of the key players.

He had a relationship with Bridget Kelly, who sent that e-mail "time for
some traffic problems." He also wrote e-mails about the traffic to David
Wildstein, the bridge official who carried out the closings.

Governor Christie has always claimed Stepien assured him he didn`t know
about the lane closings. Here`s the governor`s last December statement.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Governor, can you say with certainty that
someone else didn`t on your staff or in your administration act on your
behalf to order those lane closures for political retribution?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Yes. I have absolutely no
reason to believe that, Angie. And I`ve made it very clear to everybody on
my senior staff that if anyone had any knowledge about this, that they
needed to come forward to me and tell me about it and they`ve all assured
me that they don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Campaign chief? Campaign staffer?

CHRISTIE: Oh, yes. I`ve spoken to Mr. Stepien, who`s the person in
charge of the campaign and he`s assured me the same thing.


SHARPTON: That was December 13th. Governor Christie saying Bill
Stepien assured him he had no knowledge of the lane closing plan. But
today, Bill Stepien says, that`s not true. He says one day before on
December 12, he told the governor he had heard about the plan from David
Wildstein. In a statement, Stepien`s attorney said, quote, "Last December
12, Mr. Stepien candidly informed the governor of his advanced knowledge of
that plan and of his proper suggestion that Mr. Wildstein vet that plan
with the powers that be in Trenton."

This claim, coming from one of Christie`s closest allies, directly
contradicts what the governor said the very next day. What happens next?

Joining me now is criminal defense Attorney Brian Wice who has
experience with political corruption cases. Thanks for being here, Brian.


SHARPTON: Let me put this up again. There`s a lot of names and
characters in this Bridgegate scandal, but nobody more central than Bill
Stepien. And nobody closer to the governor. And now he`s directly
contributing Christie it appears. What`s your take on this, Brian?

WICE: Well, I think what you need to understand, this was just no
ordinary civil service chuckle head. This was the governor`s wartime
consigliere. And that of itself creates a problem for the governor because
they both can`t be telling the truth. But when I saw the news coverage on
this the other day, I was immediately reminiscent of noted legal state
Roger Clemens testimony before Congress back in 2008 where he claimed that
fellow teammate New York Yankee Andy Pettitte misremembered what he told
him about the use of HGH. This may be a case Rev, where both parties have
misremembered what the other one said. But at the end of the day, this is
not just a little speed bump. This is something that ultimately matters.

SHARPTON: Now, it`s interesting you talk about misremembered, because
to be clear, Bill Stepien`s attorney isn`t accusing the governor of lying.
He says in the Bergen record, quote, "Governor Christie misspoke an
attorney of the former campaign manager said." Why would Stepien`s
attorney characterize it like that? Could it be a credible explanation
that the governor just simply misspoke?

WICE: And I think you`re right, Rev. Kevin Marino, Bill Stepien`s
lawyer is an a list litigator, this is not his first rodeo. He recognizes
a couple of things. Number one, there is no sense in going to -- and
accusing one of the most popular, powerful men in the garden state of lying
when he doesn`t have to.


WICE: What Kevin Marino did do, he found another villain in this
morality tail, and that`s Randy Maestro, the governor`s lawyer. He and his
posse of former federal prosecutors at Gibson Dunn are now the bad guys.
Because what Kevin Marino did was to call them out, not just on his version
of what his client may have told the governor, but called him out even more
so on this basic notion of what we all learned in civics class were first
day in criminal procedure, that you can`t belief that somebody may be lying
merely because they`re not cooperating with an ongoing investigation or
certainly in a criminal case. And you know, Rev, we can all tell our moms
or our wives or our girlfriends that they can draw this negative inference
if we don`t answer their questions, but it`s not like that in the criminal
justice system. And I think that Kevin Marino made that point to Randy

SHARPTON: Now, take me inside that room between Stepien and his
attorney, what`s being said, why are they doing this now?

WICE: Well, for a very simple reason. You`ve got Randy Maestro, who
again, an a-list litigator, making public, their now famous report, which
some people claim cleared Chris Christie of everything he might have done
from Bridgegate through office detention in the fifth grade, but was
largely a sham. Once that report made it into the public consciousness
and on to your four, five, six and ten, and onto your show and other shows
of this great network, the public is going to believe that version may be
true unless somebody else steps up to the microphone.

And that`s exactly what Kevin Marino did. Asking Maestro and his
posse of former federal prosecutors to basically, as we say on the
schoolyard, take it back. It ain`t so. And by getting his client`s
version out there, Kevin Marino has done a great job of representing his
client, not just in a grand jury room or a criminal courtroom, but in the
court of public opinion -- Rev.

SHARPTON: All right. I`m going to have to leave it there. We`ll
certainly be following this criminal defense Attorney Brian Wice, always
insightful. Thank you for your time tonight.

Coming up, controversy at "The New York Times." Was the top editor
fired over equal pay? Or was there more to it?

Plus, Rush Limbaugh gets an award, and it`s being met with outrage
today. And is Monica Lewinsky coming to TV? Barbara Walters has everyone
talking about this today. That`s next.


SHARPTON: It`s time now for the talk of the nation. The stories
that have everyone talking and trending online. Joining me now are Abby
Huntsman and Zerlina Maxwell. Thanks for coming on the show tonight.



SHARPTON: One story getting attention today. Is Monica Lewinsky
headed for a job in TV? Barbara Walters has everyone talking today after
she suggested "The View" reached out to Lewinsky. She said this last night
on Letterman.


DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW": What about this? Would you
ever have considered putting her on "THE VIEW?"

BARBARA WALTERS, HOST, "THE VIEW": I won`t tell you what we have
done, but it would have been possible. I don`t think that`s what she

LETTERMAN: OK, how about a test. Let`s bring Monica in for a week
and just see how it goes and then maybe you bring her back --

WALTERS: I can`t talk. I think it would be great if she were on "THE
VIEW." I wouldn`t expect her tomorrow.


SHARPTON: Abby, Monica Lewinsky on "THE VIEW." I mean, can you see
it? Would it been a good move? Would it be a good move now?

HUNTSMAN: Let me be clear. I am team Monica. I am one of those
people out there that feels very sorry for her and I think she has every
right to tell her story. And I`m someone that have watched "THE VIEW"
pretty much my whole life. It`s anything that`s perfect setting for
someone like Monica to come on and talk to a group of women that are going
to be sympathetic to her and to what she went through and to an audience
that will very much be sympathetic to her. But I`m talking about maybe a
week of co-hosting or one day of co-hosting. But to talk about being a
permanent host of "THE VIEW," I think that ends up being pretty
controversial when you think about some of the implications. Like booking,
for example. I mean, I think --


ZERLINA: Absolutely.

HUNTSMAN: That would be a challenge.

SHARPTON: That`s what I`m curious about. I don`t know who`s on "The
View" now because team --

ZERLINA: Me too. Well, I think certainly that Monica makes -- excuse
me, Barbara Walters made news, right? I mean, certainly he`s had a 50-
plus-year career. And she knows how to make news. I think that she was
saying, perhaps Monica will get shows in the future, but Monica does not
have a long career in journalism, everyone on "The View" panel has a long
career in their specific field and I just don`t think she`s qualified to
host "The View." I do think it`s interesting and certainly newsworthy, and
I think it`s pretty amusing, but I don`t think she`s qualified to host "The
View." Definitely good for one-off show.

SHARPTON: But would it be something that guests would be -- I mean,
the kind of guest that they get, they used to -- when I used to do it a lot
is political and all. I guess it would be a different kind of format given
that a lot of their guests may or may not have something to shoot back on
or question her on.


MAXWELL: There`s no doubt that there would be moment where they
would say will tell us about that moments, you know, when you were with the
president. There are going to be moments that happen. I mean, if you have
someone on their for them -- and she would only go on there with the sort
of agreement that she put.


HUNTSMAN: I would have to open up. But I also think that you would
have a mixed reaction from the audience. I think at first, there would be
a lot of intrigue, but there are number of people that support the Clintons
as we often talk about on this network. They`ve got a huge support group.


HUNTSMAN: But I`m sure there would be a bit of backlash.

SHARPTON: Let me go to another controversy in New York that`s making
front page news all over the world. "The New York Times" abruptly fired
its executive editor Jill Abramson. And there`s all kinds of speculation
flying around as to why she was let go. One of our close associates told
the New Yorker that she confronted the top brass when she discovered her
pay was considerably less than the male editor she had replaced. And this
may have played into the management`s narrative that she was pushy. "The
New York Times" says, her total compensation was comparable to her
predecessor`s. That word bushy, that`s a very loaded word. A lot of folks
are saying, it`s a coded sexist language. Zerlina, what do you think? Did
the gender issue play a role in the firing?

MAXWELL: Absolutely. One hundred percent. I think that, you know,
if you`re looking at the reaction of men or women to this story. Women
read the story and immediately understood what it`s like to go into a room
and asked for my money, ask for a raise, ask for a vacation. And to fear
the risk about -- it will not be received in a right way because we live in
a sexist society that does not respond positively to assertive women. And
women often are told to adjust their personalities, to be more confident,
to quote the confidence code that recently came out in order to get ahead.
And I think that this shows that structurally, you know, first we need to
paycheck -- but structurally women are up against a lot here.

SHARPTON: All right. But Abby, a lot were saying that she was making
decisions without consulting management. Getting ready to hire her friend
from "The Guardian."

HUNTSMAN: Yes. I think that there have been -- it sounds like that
the story has a lot more to it than simply what she was getting paid. I
mean, there are reports out a year ago and in places like Politico saying
that there was --

MAXWELL: That was extremely sexist, though. I mean, they called her

HUNTSMAN: Yes. And there was a lot of talk of that. And I think
whenever a story like this comes out, it`s a question of what if the roles
were reversed and it was a man that was, quote, unquote, "pushy." Would
that man have been fired? And it`s a difficult one to answer.

SHARPTON: All right. This question is going to be asked until we
find out more, we are sure be watching this. But let me get to our next
topic, finally tonight, Rush Limbaugh just won a children`s book award.
Yes, you heard it right. Not only does Rush have a children`s book, but he
was awarded author of the year by the children`s book council. Here`s the
real scary part. The winners are supposedly picked by kids who vote
online. He won for this book titled "Rush revere and the brave pilgrims."
He accepted the award in typical Rush fashion.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Rush revere and his talking horse liberty, time
traveling, I want to thank all the children who voted, I love America. I
wish everybody did. I hope everybody will.


SHARPTON: Zerlina, could this possibly be voter fraud from some kids
on the right?

MAXWELL: Possibly, absolutely 100 percent the kids did not vote for
Rush Limbaugh to win best book over "divergent" the blockbuster movie and
book. I think that kids, certainly if they even know who Rush Limbaugh is,
which is I think probably a tall order, you know, they certainly aren`t
like, yay, a talking horse and a man talking about becoming a radio host
when they grow up. I don`t think that`s an inspiring message for kids.

SHARPTON: Well, Abby, there`s only one way that we can tell and that
is, we want to see the photo ID of kids that voted.

HUNTSMAN: Yes. I don`t know about you, Rev. But I mean, Rush
Limbaugh is my favorite children`s book author. He`s truly amazing when
it`s come to talking about --

MAXWELL: He`s not even my favorite radio host. So, I don`t really
know that he`s going to be my favorite children`s author.

HUNTSMAN: You know, I think the voters even be nominated for this
award you had to sell a certain amount of books. So, maybe he bought have
of them in -- I`m not quite sure.


HUNTSMAN: But, you know, Rev --

SHARPTON: Zerlina, did Abby said that was a favorite children`s
book? I`m going to leave it there. I`m going to call Abby`s father.
Zerlina Maxwell and Abby Huntsman --

HUNTSMAN: Thanks, Rev.

MAXWELL: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: This was fun, thank you for being with us. And watch Abby
on "THE CYCLE," weekdays at 3:00 p.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, the 9/11 museum opens with an emotional ceremony at ground
zero. I`ll reflect on that day and talk to a young man who`s turning his
tragedy into triumph.


SHARPTON: Today, America paused again to remember those who lost
their lives on September 11. President Obama and other officials honored
those who died at the opening of the 9/11 memorial museum this morning.
Telling survivors and families of those that lost loved ones on September
11th that they will never be forgotten.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: We look into the faces of
nearly 3,000 innocent souls, men and women and children of every race,
every creed from every corner of the world. We can touch their names and
hear their voices and glimpse the small items that speak to the beauty of
their lives. A wedding ring, a dusty helmet. A shining badge. Here, we
tell their story so that generations yet unborn will never forget.


SHARPTON: Today, one survivor explained why she donated her shoes to
the museum. Shoes she carried down 77 flights of stairs that morning.


FLORENCE JONES, 9/11 SURVIVOR: I wanted my nieces and my nephew and
every person that asked what happened to see them and maybe understand a
lit bit better what it felt like to be us on that day.


SHARPTON: And one mother remembered her son who died when the towers
collapsed. Welles Crowther led several people to safety. His face
protected from the smoke by a red bandanna he carried everywhere he went.
Now one of his signature red bandannas is there to tell his story.


ALISON CROWTHER, LOST SON ON 9/11: It is our greatest hope that when
people come here and see Welles` red bandanna, they will remember how
people helped each other that day. And we hope that they will be inspired
to do the same in ways both big and small. This is the true legacy of
September 11th.


SHARPTON: Especially helping others, the true legacy of September
11th. And coming next, we`ll talk to a young man who turned his pain from
that tragic day into making the world a better place.


SHARPTON: That was Broadway actress Losange (ph), who was eight
months pregnant when her husband died in the World Trade Center on
September 11th. Singing that beautiful song, that beautiful version of
"Amazing Grace" at the 9/11 museum this morning we all remember where we
were that day. I was in Brooklyn campaigning for a mayoral candidate. I
made my way back to Harlem to the National Action Network headquarters.
People were distraught, in tears. And I found a family friend of my
daughter`s, 12-year-old Travis Boyd, whose mother was working in the

He came to live with us for nine weeks, always hoping his mother had
somehow survived. Always hoping she would call or show up at our door.
Now Travis Boyd is a grown man and turning his suffering into a higher

Joining me now is Minister Travis Boyd who graduated from Divinity
School just this past Saturday. Thank you for come on the show, Travis.

TRAVIS BOYD, LOST MOTHER ON 9/11: Thank you Rev, for having me.

SHARPTON: You know, Dominic and Ashley, my daughters were at your
graduation or you`re receiving your masters` degree on Saturday. And I
remembered how they`d being your friends watched you those nine weeks,
every time the phone rang, hoping it was your mom or the doorbell. How did
you turn that pain into determining that you would going into the ministry
and now you just received a masters` degree this past Saturday?

BOYD: Well, I`ve always had the determination in knowing that my
faith stood ground and surface on anything that I went through in life.
And one of the things I realized is that me having faith in God and knowing
who I am as a young man and the principles that my mother taught me, I was
able to apply those thing to life, and not only just soak in my tragedy or
the tragedy, but kind of triumph from that tragedy and make my triumph
overthrow my tragedy.

SHARPTON: Your mother was raising you as a single mother. She was
everything to you. And I`m sure you thought about her when you walked
across that stage to get your masters degree on Saturday.

BOYD: Most definitely. As the class was walking to their seats from
the streets to the field, a few tears rolled from my eyes because I then
began to realize how proud my mother would have been at me and how proud I
know she is of me. But also, I was able to understand how much of a man I
have become and the man that she has cultivated to be today.

SHARPTON: Well, I wanted you to tell your story as we heard so many
that survived, and you really showed that out of deep pain and something
that is unbearable, that you can still find strength. What message do you
hope people get now when we pause at 9/11 and when people go to that
museum? What do you hope they leave with? What is the takeaway you hope
people that didn`t go through the experience you went through that they
will have?

BOYD: Well, one thing I would hope to share with people is to make
sure that they do not sulk in their sadness but rejoice the life that was
lost and understand that they are looking above, you know, smiling and
rejoicing in their success and those that may affect around them.

SHARPTON: Do you -- at this point, as you go forth in the ministry
and others go forward, do you have hope that others can find strength in
your story to deal with whatever pain and unexpected tragedies may happen
in their life?

BOYD: Most definitely. I do believe that my life is a testimony.
And one of the descriptions that I stand firm on is believing that my
testimony will help deliver someone out of any trials and tribulations that
they go through. The bible does tell us that we`re overcome by the word of
our testimony. And so, I want my testimony to be a light for somebody

SHARPTON: All right. Well, I want you to know you inspired me and a
lot of others. Minister Travis Boyd, thank you for being here, sharing
your memories with us. And your thoughts and prayers are always something
that you always in my prayers and my thoughts.

You know, I think the story of Travis Boyd and the stories we heard
today teaches us one thing. Yes, there are terrorists, yes, there are evil
people, look at what`s going on in Nigeria, but one thing that I`ve
learned, they can win the morning but they can`t win the night because
there will be those of us that will stand up and not let them have the
last word. This young man represents that.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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