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The Ed Show for Tuesday, June 10th, 2014

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June 10, 2014

Guest: Jon Ralston, Mike Papantonio, Holland Cooke, Elijah Cummings,
Zerlina Maxwell, John Tierney

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.
Let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the people that Barack Obama has been
associating with are anti-Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Tea Party is here. They`re doing a great thing.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: I`m not sure how I would describe

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only commonality across the board.

side. He`s going to make sure that we win this revolution.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In line of (inaudible) groups and discontent at the

SEN. HARRY REID, (D) LAS VEGAS: These people who hold themselves out to be
patriots are not.

Bundy thing, they went over there for a couple of days.

CLIVEN BUNDY, NEVADA RANCHER: Harry, get your army out of Nevada. Get
your army away from my ranch.

BURNETTE: Jared became anti-government, anti-police, he -- I mean, he was
talking about killing cops

BOEHNER: I`m not sure how I would describe it.

REID: These people who hold themselves out to be patriots are not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people are ...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... waiting for the big federal apocalypse. They`re
waiting for the big war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got to believe that something is brewing here

REID: They`re nothing more than domestic terrorists.


DYSON: Let`s get one thing right. Let`s get it straight right now,
rhetoric manners. No politician or commentator is responsible for the
tragic murders in Las Vegas. Amanda and Jerad Miller are. However,
conservatives rush to make totalitarian comparisons, but run from
responsibility when blood hits the ground.

Let`s look back at the two suspects, Amanda and Jerad Miller. The married
couple allegedly shot officers Alyn Beck and Igor Soldo at a pizza parlor
before fleeing to a Wal-Mart. There, the couple opened fire on one shopper
who later died. The suspects died on the scene leaving behind the trail to
a so-called "revolution".


shooting commenced -- or finishing, the suspects pulled the officers out of
the booth and on to the ground where they placed a Gadsden flag which is a
"Don`t tread on me" yellow flag on the body of officer Beck and they also
threw a swastika on top of his body. At that point, Mr. Jerad Miller then
pinned a note to officer Soldo that basically stated that this is the
beginning of the revolution.


DYSON: The political markers surrounding the violence are identifiable and
traceable. Most noticeably, the "Don`t tread on me" flag is the hallmark
of a Tea Party rally. These physical and verbal relics from the crime
scene are the precipice of a social media trail detailing hatred for the
federal government.

Jerad Miller wrote on June 7th, "We can hope for peace. We must, however,
prepare for war. We face an enemy that is not only well-funded, but who
believe they fight for freedom and justice to stop the oppression, I fear,
can only be accomplished with blood shed."

Miller was a Cliven Bundy supporter, an avid one. In an interview
conducted at the ranch, he made open threats against law enforcement.


JERAD MILLER, SUSPECTED SHOOTER: I feel sorry for any federal agents that
want to come in here and try to push us around or anything like that. I
really don`t want violence toward them but if they`re going to come, bring
violence to us, well, if that`s the language they want to speak, we`ll
learn it.


DYSON: Amanda and Jerad Miller both cited the government as an oppressive
force. The Las Vegas police underscored their radical sentiments.


MCMAHILL: We don`t necessarily believe that they are white supremacists or
associated with the Nazi movement. We believe that they equate government
and law enforcement fascism and those who support it with Nazis.


DYSON: Despite professor right-wing identity, conservative politicians
will not address the shooting in Las Vegas in any meaningful way. This was
domestic terrorism plain and simple.

Speaker John Boehner was asked directly today whether he thinks this
senseless violence was an active domestic terrorism


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the shootings in Las Vegas, do you consider that an
act of domestic terrorism?

BOEHNER: I`m not sure how I would describe it, but clearly we had a couple
of sick individuals who engaged in a horrific crime and our hearts go out
to those families, especially to the families of those two officers who
went down.


DYSON: My friends, Boehner cannot push this off on illness alone. These
individuals acted on a fostered radical anti-government beliefs.

The federal government was their enemy and Jerad and Amanda Miller were at
war and they`re not alone. Conservatives should rush to condemn these
individuals but they won`t because they`ve cultivated their very
environment in which the Miller`s sentiment was spawn.

The suspects likened the United States government to Nazi, Germany. I
wonder where they got that idea.


SEN.TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: If you got to the 1940s, Nazi, Germany. Look, we
saw in Britain, Neville Chamberlain, who told the British people "Accept
the Nazis." Yes, they`ll dominate the continent of Europe but that`s not
our problem. Let`s appease them. Why? Because it can`t be done. We
can`t possibly stand against them. So we get to ObamaCare. And what all
of those voices say? Can`t be stopped. Can`t be done. Cannot be funded.


DYSON: My friends, this kind of rhetoric has no place in American
politics. The idea that anything President Obama has done compares to
Nazism or fascism is offensive. But a group of Americans believe this to
be true. The fact that some Americans are desensitized to the frequency of
these comments is utterly dangerous.

Neighbors of Amanda and Jerad Miller were familiar with their violent home,
but didn`t believe their threats. Now, they wish they would`ve done
something, told someone. Some Right Wing conservatives just don`t hear
extremist like the Millers. They rely on them, as well. Do they feel

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Is the rhetoric of a government takeover dangerous for America?"
Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622 or go to our blog
I`ll bring you the results later in the show.

Joining me now from Las Vegas is Nevada political journalist and TV host,
Jon Ralston.

Jon, you`ve been very critical of Senator Dean Heller for calling Bundy
supporters patriots. Do you think politicians bare any responsibility for
fostering the climate that led to this heinous act?

JON RALSTON, HOST, "RALSTON REPORTS": Yeah. I think that -- listen, I`ve
been very critical of Heller for -- I`ve used the word enable. You used a
correct word too, I think, in saying cultivated this environment.

No, I don`t think we can go too far yet. There`s still lot of information
to come out about the Millers, but what we do know, in fact the former
sheriff was on the radio here today talking about how we had talked to
people and law enforcement. They went to visit these two about a month
ago. I think based on the tip from Homeland Security because of their
rhetoric, they visited them, decided that they were cleared and left and
then this happened.

You never know where this stuff is going to come from but here`s what we do
know. We know when people like Dean Heller, when we have an assemblywoman
in here by the name of Michelle Fiore, when we have a congressional
candidate by the name of Niger Innis enabling this rhetoric, creating an
atmosphere where they think that the kind of rhetoric that the Millers and
others who are out at the Bundy ranch were using becomes more mainstream,
then their behavior can come from that.

I`m not saying you can draw and direct Nexus (ph) Michael, but, surely they
bare a greater responsibility as public figures, not just simply pander to
a potentially violent element that`s already anti-government, already
angry. Do they enable this? I think there`s absolutely no question.
Things like this do happen because they`re being enabled by people in the
public eye.

DYSON: Well, don`t you find it ironic on the one hand, Republicans and
conservatives are quick to point out the empirical relationship between,
say, some artifact in pop culture, some rap song, or some video, or some,
you know, X game or something, and some violence that has been manifest,
but when it comes to the direct correlation between the kind of rhetoric
that they ginned up and ratcheted up with their extraordinarily, extreme
remarks and the violence is done, they claim amnesty here and don`t even
want to talk about the relationship.

RALSTON: Yeah. Listen, I don`t want to condone extremist rhetoric on
either side but certainly, there`s almost a direct mimicking of the kind of
language that Ted Cruz uses on the Senate floor, Dean Heller calling them
patriots. Think about that word. He is saying that these people
essentially are the inheritors of the mental of the folks who go risk their
lives in 1776.

DYSON: Right.

RALSTON: So they think of themselves as revolutionaries, meaning, that
it`s okay to kill people because they are fighting for a just cause.
That`s what disturbs me so much that Heller calling them patriots about
candidates out here in Nevada going out to the Bundy ranch and enabling
these people saying, "Yes, be anti-government. Go after the BLM.
Government is the evil. You have Cliven Bundy demanding that the sheriff
here, the sheriff disarm federal agents because he`s the only true
authority and then we he doesn`t do that, he writes him off and again, that
kind of rhetoric is mimicked by these folks on social media and look what

DYSON: Yeah. No doubt. Well, we`re going to kind of catch (inaudible),
aren`t we? Because on the one hand, the national attention is necessary
because we want to point these things out but at the same time, you`ve been
asked the question, has the national media attention embolden people like
Jerad and Amanda Miller?

RALSTON: No. That`s a tough one, right? Because we have a job to do.
Shouldn`t we be playing the same clips over and over again? I guess you
could argue about that. Of course, we have a greater responsibility too.
But when you have a U.S. senator or a congressional candidate or a
prominent state official mouthing the same rhetoric and then trying to wash
their hands, Pontius Pilate like, of anything bad that might happen and
then actually saying, "Well, I didn`t want it to go that that far." That
kind of rhetoric does enable these folks as I said before and makes them
feel more comfortable about what they`re saying. And listen, words do
matter. Words can lead to deeds.

DYSON: Right.

RALSTON: They have a greater responsibility. And yeah, you`re right,
Michael, we do too.

DYSON: Yeah and that Pontius Pilate is right because the end result was
the question "What is truth?" and that`s what we get to get to. Jon
Ralston, thank you so much for your time.

RALSTON: Thank you.

DYSON: For more, let me bring in Ring of Fire radio host and America`s
lawyer, Mike Papantonio.

Mike, the suspect Jerad Miller was interviewed by Al Jazeera America.
Listen to the sound bite before I talk to you.


MILLER: I`m not afraid of death. I`m afraid of being a slave. I`m afraid
of living under tyranny. I`m afraid of, you know, my nieces and nephews
have to grow up with, you know, the day they`re born, they have $50,000 in
tax debt over their heads already.


DYSON: I can`t help but asking. Don`t these words sound like a lot of
politicians we`ve heard before?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, HOST, RING OF FIRE RADIO: It is the place of origin,
Michael. That`s what you`re talking about here. I agree with you.

The place of origin for anti-government poison has been generated not only
by the government hay talk that comes from the regular suspects like Glenn
Beck or Rush Limbaugh or not even maybe the hostility that spewed by the
mouse from Fox News types like Shawn Hannity or Laura Ingraham. We have to
be honest about what`s happening here.

It used to be this was fringe crazy talk. Now, it`s mainstream. Now,
look, Amanda and Jerad committed the murders but for the Republican, the
leadership in the Republican Party to say "We have no responsibility" is
almost dark humor.

From -- look, they created this whole notion. How did they do it? They
did it by repeating these narratives. We`ve heard them. Michael, you`ve
reported on them. MSNBC has carried these stories forever. The
governments created death panels. How about that? Where was that created?
That was created not just by the hay talkers on the radio or TV. It was
created by Republican leadership.

The government has built FEMA prison camps for vocal critics. Where did
that come from? It came from the Michele Bachmann`s and Sarah Palin`s
repeated again and again.

Anti-government or the government has a plan to take our guns and make us
their subjects. Where did that come? Rush Limbaugh says it, Glenn Beck
says it, more importantly, the leadership in the Republican Party has used
those very kinds of words.

So where we hear that kind of clown talk narrative? We hear that coming
from GOPs leadership like Michele Bachmann, like Ted Cruz, like Rick Perry,
like Bobby Jindal. And the worst thing we can do, Michael, the worst thing
we can do is simply treat it like it`s some cartoonish babble because it`s
not. We see the results of it.

In the last few years, we`ve seen a dozen police officers murdered by anti-
government as an anti-government statement. We`ve seen anti-government
lunatics fly their airplane into an IRS building because we have this
message that government`s too big and the IRS is taking our money. We`ve
seen the multiple Tim McVeigh type efforts to murder government workers
with everything from car bombs to letter bombs to package bombs.

DYSON: Right.

PAPANTONIO: And the Republican Tea Party has got to say, "Yes, we have
some responsibility here.

DYSON: Well ...

PAPANTONIO: We created this all the way back to the beginning of the
southern strategy with Lee Atwater.

DYSON: Right. Well, let`s trace it back even further. People point to
Ronald Reagan as the kind of beginning of this. The suspicion of
government is the predicate for the kind of reassertion of conservative
values and visions and the ideological attack upon the liberals who were
too big a government.

So in defense of the right-wing, they say, "Look, we`re not talking about
being anti-government. We`re anti big government. Don`t associate us with
this kind of stuff." But as we see Brother Mike, there is a relationship
directly between the kind of vicious assault upon government and what we
see being acted out in the streets with these lunatic fringes.

PAPANTONIO: When Lee Atwater took Ronald Reagan to Philadelphia and
Mississippi and stood on his platform, it was anti-government. It`s simply
has progressed from a simple talking point to now, an ideology that the
Republican Party -- by way the Tea Party has embraced completely. Now, for
them to say, "We have no responsibility here." they understand the
responsibility. They understand that when they started this talk, Michael,
they were looking for foot soldiers.

When the Republican movement came on the scene and they said, "We have an
agenda that seems contrary to what most people think." What they had to do
is create foot soldiers to talk like them and think like them in part of
creating the foot soldier was to attack government, to create this
religious following almost that is anti-government.

That`s what we saw play itself out in Nevada. And you know what? We`re
going to see it again and again and we`re still going to hear Fox News do
several things even though they know they`re responsible for that kind of
talk. They`re going to ignore it or they`re going to say, "This is just
another reason to believe that ...

DYSON: Right.

PAPANTONIO: ... everybody ought to have a gun." or they`re going to say
Obama is somehow at fault here.

DYSON: Yeah.

PAPANTONIO: So we`ve been down this road many times with many iterations.

DYSON: Well, yeah, it`s no question and it`s a very complicated story but
one that really begs for our attention. Mike Papantonio, thank you so much
for joining us tonight.

PAPANTONIO: Thank you, Michael.

DYSON: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter at Ed Show and on Facebook. We
want to know what you think.

Coming up, radio silence, the conservative pundits that have been spewing
anti-government extremism are silent on Sunday`s shooting rampage.

Plus, Democrats are taking action to make student loan debt more
manageable. Congressman Elijah Cummings and John Tunney join me in the
Rapid Response Panel.


DYSON: Time for the Trenders. Keep in touch with the Ed Show on Twitter
at Ed Show and on Facebook and you can find me on Twitter at

The Ed Show Social Media Nation has decided and we are reporting. Here
today`s top Trenders voted on by you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, run around.

media are already trying to force the next Lewinsky iconist and that would
be Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Limbaugh`s campaign advice to Hillary lack substance.

LIMBAUGH: So what does Hillary run on?

REP.DAVID CICILLINE, (D) RHODE ISLAND: If she decides to run for
President, it will be judged on her performance, on her record.

LIMBAUGH: She`s going to run on history, first female.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go power feminism, do you know what I mean?

LIMBAUGH: And it`s bring Bill Clinton back to Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was able to get in the oval offices not because I
know the guy at the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, Arctic adventure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has it always been your dream to be a polar bear for
a day?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll turn you into a huge wild bear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The U.S. Geological Survey has strapped on cameras on
to the next polar bears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. GS gives us a polar bear point of view.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What they saw with bears eating the icy ocean waters,
trying to eat frozen field, the bears sees a potential mate. How are you
doing? This is a riveting soap opera.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wants to marry me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re hoping that by releasing this information, it
might help scientists understand the bear`s nutritional demands and even
their energy expenditure as the sea ice is declining.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would need those bears (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, static claim.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Radical rhetoric floods right-wing radio.

people feel invisible.

MARK LEVIN, THE MARK LEVIN SHOW HOST: Barack Obama`s comrades there last
right, all over the federal government have hijacked the institutions of
government and are now turning them on the people.

BECK: When people feel invisible, they go for their guns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re getting to the place where our government is
controlling much more of what we say, what we think, what we do.

DINESH D`SOUZA, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Under normal circumstances, we
would actually have a massive revolt in this country right now.

BECK: We are now the radicals. We are now the revolutionaries. We have
to start looking for ways to short-circuit things.


DYSON: Joining me now is Talk Radio Consultant Holland Cooke. Holland, is
the right-wing media stoking this anti-government sentiment? We`re not
trying to blame anybody, but we`re trying to figure out what atmosphere is
created by the rhetoric that we`re hearing.

HOLLAND COOKE, TALK RADIO CONSULTANT: Yeah. To be fair, it was these two
nut jobs who were the cop killers, not the voices on the radio. But
Michael, I remember a conversation you and I had about a half a dozen years

We were preparing to launch a talk radio show and you and I talked about
two things. We said being on the radio means it`s real. Anyone can blog,
anyone can mouth off simply on Twitter. Anyone can do a podcast but when
it`s broadcast, when it`s on radio or TV, people deserve to belief it.

And the other thing you and I talked about is that people might hear every
third word. Many radio listeners are driving. So they`re kind of half
hearing what we`re saying. And what`s floating around in this atmosphere
is a very toxic phrase that pays.

We keep hearing fight used as a noun and a verb, the fight and we`ve got to
fight. We keep hearing about armed revolution and all of these stuff has
crept so very gradually into the lexicon in the half dozen years since you
and I had this conversation that even the commercials are speaking to this
in the post Sandra Fluke ad boycott that has upended Rush Limbaugh`s
business model. One of the prominent ad categories in his show is help for
tax delinquents. If you haven`t filed in years call 1800, whatever it is

DYSON: Right.

COOKE: ... enter the promo code Rush. Even the commercials are speaking
to people who would be sympathetic to this cattle battle squatter out in

DYSON: Yeah. Well, how do we make a legitimate distinction between groups
that are expressing legitimate outrage against some, you know, expression
of government or the other versus the kind of lunatic friends that really
appeals to this toxic and very, you know, scandalously violent character of
contemporary politics that seem to attach to the far right? I`m not saying
that they`re the only ones but it seems to be very consistent right now.

COOKE: Yeah, and just talk radio, not just cable TV, and not social media
all of it together. There has never been more case for caveat emptor about
what you consume on the internet. But now, we even have to question what
is broadcast as that montage you play demonstrates.

DYSON: Yeah. So when we talk about responsibility, where is the
responsibility from these broadcasters and their employers? How do we then
hold them accountable in light of this?

COOKE: Amen. The Oops moment with Cliven Bundy talking about the Negro,
you noticed how all the guys who were calling him heroes before that
suddenly called him despicable. He just felt right off the map.

What we used to have in the media is called fact checking and editing but
in this ADD culture we live in, a story, a news cycle. People just jump on
stories before the other media beat them to it. And I think the news media
that are diligent about getting it right will become conspicuous in this

DYSON: Well, I don`t know if they`re trying to get it right but I know one
station of course that did not or at least one set of commentators that did
not touch this -- that weren`t trying to imitate what others was doing --
were doing, there was almost no talk of the Las Vegas shooting on Fox`s
primetime program last night after news of the connection the shooters had
to the Bundy ranch. So what`s your take on this silence?

COOKE: Yeah, it`s commission by omission. The radio station I used to
manage in Washington D.C, WTOP, the big old new station has a sign in the
news rim wall (ph) to this day that says, "Get it right, then get it first.
They`re hell bent on earning your trust." But people are going to piece
this together. They`re going to start to also notice what`s not there.
Because there were so many news outlets and because we are a culture of
channel surfers, they`re going to start figuring it out, I hope.

DYSON: Wow, yeah. He is hoping that that aspiration becomes true.
Holland Cooke, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

COOKE: You bet, Michael.

DYSON: Still ahead, Democrats take action to ease student loan debt.
Congressman Elijah Cummings and John Tunney join me next.

And later, George Will`s ignore column about campus rape tries to spend
victim hood as a covenant privilege. We`ll discuss the realities of
surviving sexual assault.

But next, I`m taking your questions Ask MED Live is just ahead. Stay


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We loved hearing from our viewers.
Tonight in Ask MED Live, our question is from CJ. "What is your opinion of
the Bergdahl`s swap?"

Wow. You know, for me when I listen to Senator McCain talked about the
possibility that this would be a good idea, should it come about. When I
heard other people on the right and who are conservative say, "yup." You
know, what some caveats (ph) that this could be a good idea.

And then when President Obama post the triggers so to speak and then swaps
Bergdahl for the five Taliban prisoners, all of sudden is a brouhaha,
because Obama can never do anything right. Look, I think it`s always good
when a President instead of trying to forcibly extract someone through
means of war, indeed goes into an act of diplomacy, an act of trade. We
know it`s very rare but what`s rarer still is the common sense to say,
"Maybe if we gain the good will of the world by not always stamping our
foot on the collective next of vulnerable people but seeing a way to
negotiate and to trade our way through a difference", we might have a
better nation.

Our next question is from Rachael. "How do we change the hearts and minds
of people like Dr. King did?" That`s a great question Rachael. Dr. King
was a man of action. He was also a man of love, he was a man of peace.

Dr. King believed that we could only overcome the vicious violence of this
nation by believing in each other, by loving each other, by literally
loving the hell out of each other. He wasn`t a namby-pamby, we are the
world kind to figure who believe in love.

His love was deeply entrenched and rooted and they belief that God would
give strength to those who are willing to stand up for justice, for truth
and righteousness. This is why Dr. King said, "I am a drum major for those
good things." But we have to give up the arrogance to presume our way is
the only way.

When a lot of people nowadays go about social movement and compared
themselves to Dr. King, they`re doing a grand to service. Because Dr. King
didn`t use his Christian beliefs to make this a Christian nation, he used
his religious beliefs to make this a just nation. He could work with a
person who was an atheist better that he can work with a person who claim
to be a Christian but he was committed to acts of violence that divided the
black from the white, the rich from the poor and the South from the North.

If we`re going to engage in the kind of practices that Dr. King believed
in, what you and I must do is to give up our beliefs and the arrogance of
our ways and get rid of the bigotry. His teacher Howard Thurman said, a
bigot is a person who makes an idol of his commitments. Let`s stop
idolizing and fantasizing our commitment and learned humbly to live with
one another as brothers and sisters to overcome our differences.

Stick around, the Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap. Stock set a little change, the Dow is up two, the S&P ends
down bracket, the Nasdaq up a point.

GM says, it doesn`t expect any other firings correlated to the companies
delayed ignitions switch recall. CEO Mary Barra says, GM has taken
appropriate action. Google is making an acquisition, buying satellite
firm, imaging firms, skybox for $500 million. And better share of
RadioShack split 10 percent after the retailer report it, its 9th straight
quarterly loss.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.



ELIZABETH WARREN, [D] MASSACHUSETTS: These young people didn`t go to the
mall and run up charges on the credit card. They worked hard. They stayed
in the class. They learned their skills and they barrowed what they needed
to pay for an education.


DYSON: Welcome back to the ED Show. Millions of young people in the
United States are facing a mountain of debt. Outstanding student loans now
total more than $1.2 trillion, which sure passes total credit card debt in
this country. And every year students are taking on more. But only
political party wants to do something about it.


Lower tax bills from millionaires or lower student loan bills for the
middle class. This should be a no brainer.


DYSON: No brainer at all. Student loan debt is hurting our economy and
holding back a generation of Americans, it demands the immediate tension of
congress. Student loan rates are double, triple or even quadruple the
amount needed to cover administrative cost, the cost of funds and bad

On Monday, President Obama signed an executive order allowing students to
cut their monthly loan payments at 10 percent of their income. Gees, where
were you when I needed you? The senate Republican leadership is calling
the move in election year gimmick.


MITCH MACCINNELL, [R] KENTUCKY: My council to my member is, why would we
want to get on a bill like that, that clearly is not going anywhere, a big
blue slip by the house.


DYSON: When is the last time you`ve been in school my friend? Joining me
now is our Rapid Response Panel, Congressman Elijah Cummings from Maryland
and Congressman John Tierney from Massachusetts. Congressman Tierney, you
introduced legislation along with Senator Elizabeth Warren, which would
give barrowers the opportunity to refinance their student loans. Why do
you think Republicans think that is a bad idea?

JOHN TIERNEY, [D] MASSACHUSETTS: Well because they think it should be a
profit center. They`re obviously run up a significant debt in this country
from Iraq to whole (ph) some other matters that they promulgated on that
and the problem is that they now need to find form profits that will help
pay down that debt.

They`ve decided using students and their parents as that based on that.
And both Senator Warren and I have been working on this for a long time.
And the idea here is that, you know, this is about access to the education,
about affordability in getting people out into the job market, until their
life as innovators and entrepreneurs. And it`d be able to do without
walking around a big debt.

We can do this by making sure the loans, you know, payback the principle, a
little bit of management cost and a little bit of default factor in there
and bring the interest rates way down and that`s what we should be doing.

DYSON: Access and affordability are critical Congressman Cummings.
President Obama expressed outrage at what he thinks young people are
facing. Listen to this.


OBAMA: I don`t know, by the way, why folks aren`t more outraged about
this. I`m going to take a pause out of my prepared text. You would think
that if somebody like me has done really well in part because the country
has invested in them, that they wouldn`t mind at least paying the same rate
as a teacher or a nurse. There`s not a good economic argument for it, that
they should pay a lower rate. It`s just clout, that`s all.


DYSON: Congressman Cummings, is he taking a strong enough stands there,
President Obama?

ELIJAH CUMMINGS, [D] MARYLAND: I think he is and, you know, first of all,
let me say about (inaudible), he has work very hard in this issue back in
2007. He worked to actually cut the interface on that on student loans.
Then in 2012, he was able to make sure that it didn`t double and now the
bill that we`re talking about but -- and I applaud him for all of that.
Clearly the president is on message and he`s absolutely right. We got to
fight for our young people.

The number two or three question that comes to me when people will turn our
people (inaudible) is do you have a program that`s going to allow me to be
able to help pay my student loans? We got to do that. Keep in mind that,
you know, the cost of collage has gone up three times in the last 30 years,
in other words it`s gone up to tremendously, 30 percent in the last 30
years and the wages have not gone up. And so people are struggling, they
want their children to do better than what they did. But if they cannot
afford and education cannot payback to debt, there`s a problem.

It`s -- as Tierney said, these folks are putting their lives on hold.
That`s why the Massachusetts Mortgage Banker support the legislation. Yet
there are bankers that support this kind of legislation. You know why?
Because they`ve realized that students -- when people come out to college,
they are saddle (ph) with debt and not get started. Many of them have to
move back into their -- homes of their parents. And so they want to see
the economy move forward and people be able to buy homes, structures and
move on with their life.

DYSON: Sure. Congressman Tierney, the Congressional Budget Office
estimated your proposal would reduce deficit by about $22 billion over 10
years. How can Republicans argue with those numbers and really stand
against that?

TIERNEY: Well, they can`t on a legitimate basis but there`re arguing for
the sake of argument because they, as I mentioned early, see this is a
profit center. In reality we shouldn`t even have to pay for this because
we`re only just talking about not having a profit. In the sense where we
had a pay for in a bill which was to the Warren Buffett rule of not
allowing somebody in his category of income to pay a lesser tax rate than
his administrative assistant, that give us the pay for but, you know, that
has just, again, have something in recover the debt that they have ran up.

So their argument really is we can fix this, end it all (ph). They just
don`t want to have a success for this president. They don`t want to have a
success on a issue that deals with the middle class and they`re quite
content. They`ve very wealthy people, do well at the expense of middle
class and families that are out there struggling.

DYSON: Yeah.

CUMMINGS: And Dr. Dyson, this is by the way from their constituents and
our constituents.

DYSON: Right.

CUMMINGS: This seems like all of us -- like the president said, seem like
all of us would be into this, I mean just make sense.

DYSON: Well of course. But let me ask you a question, John Boehner is
always talking about securing an economic future for his grandkids. My
grandkids are watching now. (Mossy), (Max), (Leva), hope you kids are
obeying your grandmother. I`ll be home soon. But why isn`t he doing
anything about his grandkids, by securing their future, by doing anything
about this?

TIERNEY: You`re going to ask him on that question doctor. But I`ll
telling you, that not a day goes by that we don`t get a number of e-mails
and calls to the office, people stopping by, talking about the burden on
them and having alleged this around or their children, the parents are
there. But sometimes the parents have a debt as well. The people get it.
I mean there`s been a tremendous response to this. People have been asking
to this for a long time. I think that the latter people speak up, the more
they join together, make the noise, hopefully they`re going to be the ones
enforce the House of Representatives and the Senate to actually take up
some action on this and do something. It`s about who side do you want.

DYSON: All right.

TIERNEY: We`re clearly on the side of families. Whose side are they on?

DYSON: No doubt. Congressman Elijah Cummings, Congressman John Tierney,
thank you s so much.

TIERNEY: Thank you.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

DYSON: Coming up, Conspiracy King Alex Jones supports another false plague
operation. Pretenders I next, stick around.


DYSON: In pretenders tonight, the king of conspiracy, radio show hosts
Alex Jones. His new conspiracy theory could be his most ridiculous yet.
He thinks the Las Vegas shooting was stage by Senator Harry Reid and


ALEX JONES: There is so much proof of this being staged yesterday, when I
first read about it, and this morning, that my mind exploded with hundreds
of data points, and quite frankly it`s conclusive. Would they do this to
get our guns and blame the Tea Party that`s sweeping in every runoff
election and every primary right now? 1776 is happening peacefully through
the system, they want to start a civil war with the police. It happens
right in Harry Reid`s district, right in his state, right in his city, with
his police department.


DYSON: Wow, put twilight zone there, just add it to the list. Every time
there was mass shooting or a terrorist attach, Jones is quick to blame them
on the government or global forces. From September of the 11th to the
Boston marathon bombing, Jones calls acts of violent false flag operation.
Jones maybe caught of guard by the Las Vegas shooting because he also likes
to talk about revolutions.


JONES: And I`m here to tell you, 1776 will commence again if you try to
take our firearms. Doesn`t matter how many lemmings you get out there on
the street begging for him to have their guns taken. We will not
relinquish them, do you understand? That`s why you going to fail and the
establishment knows, no matter how much propaganda, the republic will rise
again when you attempt to take our guns.


DYSON: If Alex Jones thinks anything, person believes his deranged, wild
conspiracy theory. He can keep on pretending.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed show. Victims of rape or sexual assault are
called many names, a tease, a lair. But according to Fox News contributor
and syndicated columnist George Will, victim of sexual assault are
privileged. See, George Will believe the so called rape epidemic is simply
a product a progressivism elevation of victimhood. Will argues
progressivism has made "Victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges
and as result victims proliferate." George Will want`s to dismiss
statistics and trivialize the trauma of sexual assault.

What you see on your screen are the facts George Will chooses to ignore.
There`s an epidemic of survivors of sexual assault and rape, often these
victims find themselves ostracized, harassed or threaten by their peers,
their colleagues, the police. Those survivors then have to function within
a culture that awards a victim blame them columnist a full of surprise and
a platform in the Washington post. Their survival is a product of their
own strength, not something afforded to them by progressivism or anyone

Joining me now is Zerlina Maxwell of Zerlina you wrote a
great topic -- article about this topic, which folks can find on
You know, you got to ask, should George Will still have a job, should the
Washington post have to answer for publishing this and what actual purpose
does his column serve.

the latest in a long line of columns, there was column for Time Magazine,
also that, you know, presented the same rape apologist argument that...

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL: ...victims somehow are contributing to their own attacks. And
if, you know, they just did filling the blank, get a gun, never drink,
never wear a skirt. Then they won`t be attack. But the problem is that
all of these columns have one thing in common. Number one, they don`t put
the priority on making sure that their survivor OK first.

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL: And number two, they don`t talk about consent, which is what we
need to be talking about when we`re talking about sexual assault. So in
the piece he uses a example where he`s talking about a young woman and a
man who where in dating, a dating relationship where, you know, there was
previous sex that happen. And she said, no and he did it anyway. He had
intercourse with her anyway, that is a rape.

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL: He uses the example though to show that oh these college women
are, you know, dealing with blurred lines and that`s not actually rape.
They`re calling things way better, not actually rape and he`s wrong about

DYSON: Well when he uses words like or phrases like so called rape
epidemic, doesn`t that trivialize the trauma that women have to endure in
the face of the rape that they`ve endured and then they`re rerape...


DYSON: ...they retraumatized again verbally and rhetorically by
insensitivities like the ones Mr. Will exhibited.

MAXWELL: Absolutely, 100 percent. And I think that the only way that he`s
able to make that argument is that, number one, he`s probably never to
spoke into someone who`s actually survived rape. I have, so the process
afterwards is there`s nothing privileged about it. I think that, you know,
if we demystified, maybe what a rape kid is, people would start...

DYSON: I was going to ask you that.

MAXWELL: ... then understand that there was nothing, it sounds benign.

DYSON: It sounds terrible, right?

MAXWELL: Sound like you`re doing a science experiment. No...

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL:`s an invasive process in which you`re given all kinds of
medication because like the doctors are trying to, you know, do diligence
to make sure there are no sexually transmitted diseases, because we`re
talking about a violation of your physical body...

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL: ...against your will, because there`s no consent. And so a rape
kid sounds benign and maybe George Will doesn`t understand that. It is
again, retraumatizing the victims, when they`re at their most vulnerable.

DYSON: Well after this outrageous column and of course the response of
Twitter and other social media, the hashtag Survivor Privilege picked up
steam. Tell us about that and how effective these social media campaigns
are to really raising awareness.

MAXWELL: Well the hashtags was created by one of my friends Wagatwe, who
also went to talk university, my Alma mater. And she started the hashtag
because she`s speaking from her own experience that she was assaulted on
the college campus that did not have her best interest at part. Her rapist
was not expelled. Men often times -- rapist are found guilty within the
administrative process and then not expelled from school. And so...

DYSON: That`s remarkable.

MAXWELL: ... you are in the same class, potentially, with the person who
attacked you and was found guilty.

DYSON: Well, what`s done -- are they punished at all? Are they...

MAXWELL: No. Sometimes they`re assigned book reports or perhaps maybe put
on some sort of suspension or probation. But certain my -- Tufts
University, my Alma matter does not automatically expel someone found
guilty and administer the process. And they were found non-compliant with
title line the law, the federal statue that`s on point with gender
discrimination and sexual assault cases. And so, you know, the White House
taskforce did a great job. They put out a great report listening to
survivors, right? Because you need to listen to our experiences and that`s
what this hashtags do.

And so the White House report put the focused on by standard (ph)
intervention and consent in education so that we stop rapes before they
happen and we`re not blaming people for what`s happening to them in saying
that, "Oh well, if you had just had an AR-15." You know, when you`re an
eight year old boy and abused by someone or eight year old girl abused by
someone, you wouldn`t had been attacked, because that`s a ridiculous
argument anyway.

DYSON: It is. Now you already pointed out that look what happened in Time
Magazine, it happened in Washington. How pervasive is this mindset? Do
you think this is something that, well pretty much exceptional although
it`s been repeated or do you think this is deeply in grained with the

MAXWELL: Oh no. I think in deeply in grained in our culture. And I think
that, you know, the bottom line here is that we need to be talking in a
serious manner about masculinity and how people are expressing masculinity.
If they`re expressing masculinity in a violent way, if you`re way to assert
your power over a woman who you feel is weaker or less than you, is to then
hit them or to have intercourse without their consents. Because if the
woman says no, you then, you know, you don`t wear her down and you don`t
try to manipulate her into doing what you want. If she says no, that`s a
no. A no was a no.

So that, you know, even though Robin Thicke song, Blurred Lines was, you
know, number one, there are no such thing blurred lines when it comes to

DYSON: Very quickly, how can people affectively response so that pieces
like George Will won`t be the dominant topic of conversation but their
counter arguments will.

MAXWELL: Well there`s plenty of a literature on line. I wrote a piece in
a Washington post in last week, really taking down point by point many of
the arguments that George Will made and many other rape apologize make. I
think that, you know, in our small communities, you know, when you`re
talking to friends and family who have similar ideas to George Will, you
have to, you know, come back and say, it is not the victims fault, they`re
not the one who choose to rape.

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL: It`s always the rapist choice to do it.

DYSON: All right. That`s it for tonight. This is the ED Show. I`m
Michael Eric Dyson sitting in for Ed Schultz. We are grateful to have this
opportunity to talk to our friends here in America and we`re also of
course, Zerlina Maxwell, I want to thank you for joining us here today.
And we`re always in tune and in time for the great topics of the day.
We`re grateful for this opportunity. I love my men Ed Schultz and sitting
in for him as a wonderful remarkable opportunity. And we invite all of you
to come back to recall night when I have a chance again to say hello to
you, to talk to you and engage you in some of the most stimulating,
interesting topics of the day. It`s always fun to talk to my grandchildren
on camera as well. That was a treat as well. And we are very grateful for
this opportunity.

Now I`ll turn it over to Baptist preacher, the Baptist preacher from
Michael Eric Dyson to the right Reverend Al Sharpton.


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