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The Ed Show for Wednesday, June 11th, 2014

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June 11, 2014

Guest: Chris Van Hollen, Karen Finney, Ari Rabin-Havt, Barry Lynn, John
Fugelsang, Dr. Peniel Joseph

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans. Welcome to the Ed
Show live from New York. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz. Let`s
get to work.


REP. ERIC CANTOR, [R] VIRGINIA: Obviously, we came up short.

This came out of nowhere.

DAVID BRAT: This is a miracle from God that just happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you taking a bowel this morning?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politics is awesome.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s disappointing, sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immigration reform is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death of the Tea Party has been greatly

LAURA INGRAHAM, RADIO HOST: Myself, Mark Levin, Ann Coulter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step back and be like our party is actually doing very

INGRAHAM: (inaudible), Breitbart News, The Daily Caller.

BRAT: I know what`s on the mind of the folks.


DYSON: It`s official, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is stepping down.
House Republicans were holding elections to select the new Majority Leader
on June 19th.

Cantor addressed the media moments ago.


CANTOR: Well, I will not be on the ballot in November. I will be a
champion for conservatives across the nation who are dedicated to
preserving liberty and providing opportunity.

Now, well, I intend to serve out my term as a member of congress on the 7th
district of Virginia, effective July 31st, I will be stepping down as
Majority leader. It is with great humility that I do so knowing the
tremendous honor it has been to hold this position.


DYSON: Historians are calling it first. Never before has a House leader
of Eric Cantor`s rank been defeated in a primary. It`s a stunning upset
for one of the most influential conservative voices in Washington.

Last Friday, Cantor`s office released an internal poll conducted in late
May which showed him with the 34 point lead over challenger David Brat. On
Tuesday, the 7th term Republican leader lost to Brat by a whopping 10 --
excuse me, 12 percentage points.

Until now David Brat is flown under the radar. Just a Tea Party inspired,
anti-establishment, economics professor at a small college in Virginia. By
all logic, Eric Cantor should`ve had a name recognition and money for an
easy win.

Financially, it was a David and Goliath match up. Cantor spent over $5
million on this campaign. David Brat spent a $122,000. That`s 20 to 1.
Brat was considered such a long shot. He even failed to secure the
endorsement of Tea Party groups with national networks.

Many are criticizing Brat`s attacks on campus immigration stands for the
win. Cantor rejected the bipartisan immigration reform deal proposed in
the Senate. But Cantor also signaled the willingness to offer a partial
compromise for children brought over by their parents.

We all know by now that any deal would be acceptable to Democrats is
unacceptable to certain Republicans. Compromises scene, a surrender,
people will call this a cool (ph) for anti-establishment Republicans. In
reality, this is a victory for anti-immigrant Republicans.


ANN COULTER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: The Democrat response is to keep
saying, "Oh, this is a Tea Party victory." I noticed they are not saying.
They seem to think that`s insulting and will turn people off. They are not
saying, "This is a defeat for amnesty" because they know what I`m saying is
true. Americans do not want the amnesty. In fact, they`d like a
moratorium on immigration generally.

Overwhelmingly, the polls have shown that for 20 years but the Chamber of
Commerce, the Sheldon Adelsons of the world keep buying their way into the
heart of John Boehner and Eric Cantor. And whenever the voters know what
the positions are, again they did not know in North Carolina last month,
when they know they will vote against the amnesty, not just to the
Republican base, African-Americans, legal Hispanics,.


COULTER: .blue-collar white workers.


DYSON: Just last week, we were given a look inside a customs and board of
protection processing center in Texas, overwhelmed with undocumented
families attempting to enter the U.S. And images from a converted
warehouse in Arizona where more than 700 children are being housed

President Obama declared it a humanitarian crisis. And when you look at
images like this, it`s hard to comprehend how Republicans can be so callous
when it comes to addressing immigration reform. Then, you hear statements
like this.


INGRAHAM: The consul of Honduras is saying that the illegal immigrant
children are complaining to the consulate of Honduras that the burritos and
eggs they are being given in their holding areas are making them sick. So
they`re complaining about the food. I bet there are a lot of American kids
who would like free food before they to go to bed at night.


DYSON: The truth is David Brat`s win is a testament to the power of the
Right Wing Media. Radio host Laura Ingraham saw in Brat the anti-immigrant
candidate she`s been waiting for.


INGRAHAM: They are really tired of the business, as usual, in Washington.
They`re tired of the establishment mindset that showed this idea that
amnesty is the only way for Republican Party to survive. And they made a
difference. And this is a massive wake up call for the Republican Party if
they choose to actually, you know, wake up at this point.


DYSON: And make no mistake, Ingraham`s endorsement of the relatively
unknown David Brat was instrumental in this upset. Ingraham wasn`t the
only one. Right Wing talk leaders like Ann Coulter, Mark Levin and Tony
Perkins also rallied around the "Not Cantor Candidate" in a primary season
that scene a string of victories for the Republican establishment. The
Right Wing noise machine took aim at one of their own. And they will have
a lasting impact on both immigration reform and the future of the
Republican Party.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Are you happy to see Eric Cantor lose?" Text A for Yes, text B
for No to 67622 or to our blog I`ll bring out the results
later in the show.

For more, let me bring Congressman Chris Van Hollen from Maryland.
Congressman, what was the response on Capitol Hill to the stunning
announcement that Eric Cantor lost?

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D) MARYLAND: Well, this was a bombshell on Capitol
Hill just as it has been, you know, politically throughout the country. As
you saw, Eric Cantor has already stated that he`s going to step down as the
Republican leader in the House which will set off a raise among House
Republican Caucus members as to who will replace him.

And so you will see happening in the House Republican Caucus the same Civil
War going on throughout the country, among Republicans. And at least from
last night`s result, it`s pretty clear that the most extreme Right Wing Tea
Party faction is prevailing and that will send a shockwave through the
House Republican Caucus. So in an institution where it`s already the case
where we`re not getting things done for the American people, things will
unfortunately, probably result in even more gridlock because the Tea Party
folks, they just don`t want to work together to solve the country`s
problems. It`s unfortunate but that`s the reality.

DYSON: No doubt. Congressman Van Hollen, in light of these results and
with Cantor stepping down, do you think there is any hope for immigration
reform at all?

VAN HOLLEN: You know, I think the odds were already tough, unfortunately.
But at least Eric Cantor was willing to, you know, whisper about it, at
least he was willing to entertain the idea of coming up with some
compromise. As he indicated today, he`s been very hardline on immigration
reform but at least he put forward his own version of the dream act. But
the signal that was sent to the House Republican Party is they want no part
of solving immigration reform for the country.

And I would say, by extension, they really don`t want to address a lot of
the other nature issues we`ve got. The message that was sent is "Don`t
cooperate, don`t work together on a bipartisan fashion with Democrats to
try and move the country forward."

DYSON: What you said to those who argued no, Lindsey Graham won a hotly
contested race and he did it in, you know, with passing color and he
supported major reform in immigration. And other congress people,
themselves, were in tough battles but they prevailed and many of the people
who signed the anti-amnesty clause were themselves defeated. Do you think
it`s a more complicated narrative here that there are some possibility for
movement forward on the immigration front?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I hope that`s the case. I mean, that would be a silver
line in reading the results of some of these races. Unfortunately, I think
it`s more along the lines that you just mentioned which is where you had
sort of Right Wing talk radio getting directly involved than the race in
trying to mobilize the Tea Party base. They had an impact.

I read it the way that you just did which is, you know, because this talk
radio host went in and whipped up for frenzy, you had the result that you
did and the danger for the country is that if that happens repeatedly, you
have a very narrow band to the country with the far Right Tea Party band
running the show in the House of Representatives. That was already the

I mean, speaker Boehner has already seeded a lot of control in the House to
the Tea Party folks. This will make it even worse. That`s what -- we
haven`t had a vote on the Bipartisan Immigration Reform Bill. We can`t get
a vote on raising the minimum wage. We can`t get a vote on universal
background checks for guns. We can`t even get a vote on lots of these
things and that`s because Speaker Boehner was already worried about losing
control to the Tea Party Caucus in the House. This will make all those
problems even worse.

DYSON: Well, can we flip it a little bit and say look, it might make the
obstruction worse and might mean a further move to the right, which is bad
for Republicans but does it give Democrats an opportunity to really kind of
wiggle themselves into better position?

HOLLEN: Well, I do think that since the Republicans are now going to be
talking to a more and more narrow band in the country, that all their
politics will be geared toward this very vocal minority in the Tea Party
wing. Yes, that they will begin to lose the conversation with the broad
American public.

Because the broad American public whether they`re Democrats, Independents,
or even many Republicans are looking for a congress that wants to solve
problems. And to the extent that Republics here in the House continue to
answer to a very vocal but very small and extreme group in the country. I
think they`re going to continue to lose this for the American people.

So, I think the country looses as a result of this but the country has to
response, which is try to make sure you elect people who want to solve
problems. And as the Democrats in the House were asking for our votes on
these important issues that help move the country forward.

DYSON: Well, from your mouth (inaudible), Congressman Van Hollen thanks so
much for your time tonight.

HOLLEN: It`s great to be with you, thanks.

DYSON: Let me bring in MSNBC political analyst Karen Finney. Karen what
does this say about the power of Right Wing Media, if indeed Laura, you
know, Ingraham, and Ann Coulter, and Mark Levin, and others put up frenzy
and got their guy elected?

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well I think it says that they`re
very powerful, if there is also, I think in conjunction with that, and I do
because one of the things that Brat did quite well with the resources that
he had, you`ve got to have a ground game, right? I mean, there were people
there who were receptive to that message, who Brat was then even to
mobilize and get them out to vote.

So certainly Right Wing Media has, you know, some influence. We won`t take
that away from them but you got to also -- still you got to get people to
polls, right? You got to get them to vote at the end of the day.

DYSON: So you think Cantor failed to do that? Did he take it for granted
that he was the second man in control and therefore pretty much on easy
street or did he fail to calculate that the strength of the opposition?

FINNEY: You know, I think there`s a couple of things. I think he didn`t
work as hard as he needed to have. I mean in that press conference, you
heard him say that he -- I think at least every week was in the district.
It`s my understanding he wasn`t even there yesterday, he wasn`t even the
district yesterday, on Election Day.

So I think he took a lot for granted. And also, he probably didn`t have an
operation that was monitoring the impact of that Right Wing Media and the
messaging and the impact of the messaging was having on Brat`s ability to
essentially lower Cantor`s chances for winning. I mean I have to tell you
though Eric -- Michael, I mean, it`s just -- it shocks me that yet again,
you see a Republican polling operation that`s so dramatically .

DYSON: Yeah.

FINNEY: . was so off.

DYSON: Yeah.

FINNEY: It`s really surprising.

DYSON: Maybe Karl Rove was in charge. But look, so .


DYSON: . if Eric Cantor was blown off of his shoes, is Boehner shaking in
his boots right now? What does this mean for somebody like him?

FINNEY: Of course it does. I mean look, it definitely suggest, I mean, if
we take a look at, you know, just the dynamics of today and what I think
we`ll see after the election within the Republican Caucus, I think it`s
very clear there is going to be kind of scramble and a realignment of
power. And I think that`s very dangerous I think for the Republican

I think it`s dangerous for America. So yes, here John Boehner, I mean, you
know, they really thought Boehner and Cantor and those guys really thought
they sort of had some control over or found kind of a balance I think with
the Tea Party. All those Congressman Van Hollen point out, there`s a lot
of things not getting through that should be. But that`s part of that
balance I think they struck.

Can you imagine what happen if, you know, those Tea Party folks end up in
the leadership position?

DYSON: Well, speaking of which, are we getting anything done on
immigration reform right now? I mean with the treat of them looming large,
what does that mean for immigration reform?

FINNEY: You know, I have to tell you, I know that a lot of dependents (ph)
and lot of you have been saying that immigration reform is dead. I really
hope that`s not true, I don`t think we should let Cantor`s laws be an
excuse for that. It`s still the right thing to do. Certainly, I think
politically it`s going to be a tough thing to do. I don`t think that
Boehner is going to be particularly invested in getting it done.

But I think it`s really important that groups at least continue to put the
pressure on and not accept this as an excuse for it to not happen.

DYSON: Would this Co represent an opening for the Democrats?

FINNEY: No. Look, I think it makes it tougher for the Democrats, because,
you know, one of the things -- the dynamics we`ve seen, right, is that
Republicans are sort of being meaningless. Again as Mr. Van Hollen pointed
out, a small group of Tea Partiers are really sort of driving the agenda,
at least in the House by fear, right? There`s so much of being primary by
a Tea Partier of, you know, what they might do.

I don`t -- I think that continues to be a problem for Democrats who are
serious about trying to get something done. Unless, we take the Tea
Partiers more -- continue to take them on more directly on the issues and
find those voters and turn out those voters who want to get something done.

DYSON: All right, Karen Finney thanks for your time tonight.

FINNEY: Thanks so much. Take care.

DYSON: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at he bottom of the
screen. And share your thoughts on Twitter@Edshow. And on Facebook, we
want to know what you think. Next up, in Trenders, the Senator formerly
knows Connect (ph) Ted Cruz, disowns his Canadian birthplace. So where is
all the birther outrage now? And later, heaven can wait, here`s your tax
dollars at work.


LOUIE GOHMERT: Whatever you chose to think about Christ, he said that
nobody basically goes to heaven except through me.

REV. BARRY LYNN, AMERICAN UNITED: We could have a very interesting
discussion sometime, probably not in a congressional.



DYSON: Time now for the Trenders. Keep in touch with the Ed Show on
Twitter @edshow and Facebook. And you find me on Twitter @michaeledyson.
The Ed Show social media nation has decided and we`re reporting.

Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, Post Politics.

GAIL ERNST: My wife Joni Ernst is a Republican running for U.S. Senate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s set the face off against Congressman Bruce
Braley for Iowa Senate Seat.

JONI ERNST, REPUBLICAN SENATE HOPEFUL: It`s really been quite a family

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joni Ernst apologizes for her husband`s Facebook ramp.

J. ERNST: When a candidate jumps into the race, they`re not just jumping
in alone.

Let`s make them real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, White Plan.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you do when you`re stuck in an airport
overnight without anyone around?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m delayed, long term.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get my phone in an empty movie set and see what we can

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An empty airport sets a scene for stranded fliers by
rolled videos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He strapped his phone to a wheelchair, his suitcase to
record himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I was young, I never needed anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video already add to more than a million viewers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to live by myself, by myself anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s number top Trender, No Canada.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My fellow Canadian.

SEN.TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: I was born in 1970 in Calgary, Canada.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blame Canada. Blame Canada.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Questions have been popping up about whether he`s
eligible to run for president because Cruz was born in Canada.

CRUZ: My mother was an American citizen, under U.S. law. I was a U.S.
citizen by birth.

SEAN HANNITY: Are you birther Christ building on the left that you had to
do run?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Ted Cruz renounces his Canadian citizenship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A spokeswoman for the Texas senator says the Tea
Party favorite formally gave up his citizenship in mid May.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This not about the promises. This is about dignity.

CRUZ: And I grew up in Houston, Houston has been my home ever since.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Tea Party is anti-socialism and anti-immigration.
So it makes sense that our hero is a Cuban from Canada.

CRUZ: Serving as U.S. senator, representing the state of Texas, I think it
is only appropriate that I`ll be only an American.


DYSON: Joining me now is Ari Rabin-Havt, host of The Agenda on SiriusXM

ARI RABIN-HAVT, HOST, SIRIUSXM "THE AGENDA": Thanks for having me Michael.

DYSON: Thank you for coming on my friend. Is this a sign that Ted Cruz
will throw his head in the ring for 2016?

RABIN-HAVT: Well one thing it`s a sign of this, we have Ted Cruz, we have
Justin Bieber, we have the Keystone Pipeline, I think Canada is out to
destroy America, first of all. I mean, but yes, I mean Ted Cruz is clearly
setting up for 2016. He`s clearly clearing the deck of this issue which is
a stupid issue, which is a nonissue, which who cares about it, you know.

Donald Trump went looking for Barack Obama`s birth certificate in Hawaii.
We know where Ted Cruz is. It`s in Alberta. It`s a nonissue. Of course
he can run for president. It`s a stupidity created by 2008.

DYSON: Well, thank God, Melissa Forde and Drake are redeeming Canada in
our eyes. But Canada has a government run healthcare system, legalized gay
marriage. When you think about those great things, why did it take Cruz so
long to renounce his citizenship and leave Canada behind?

RABIN-HAVT: Yeah. I don`t understand why he didn`t leave Canada five,
six, seven years ago. He claims he didn`t know he was Canadian. Well one
would hope with his politics, he didn`t know he was Canadian, since Canada,
you know, as I said, we get all the bad. Why does Canada get the good

DYSON: No doubt about it. So in light of what you`ve just said, which
country got the better deal of this, the better part of (inaudible)?

RABIN-HAVT: We clearly got out negotiating that, I mean, I don`t know
who`s making these deals. Can we blame Obama for this?

DYSON: The Canadian purchase, the president. Speaking of which, the
president, as you know, was dark for years about his citizenship and even
after he released his birth certificate, people still question it but Cruz
doesn`t receive this level of criticism. So do you think there`s a double,
triple, or quadruple standard going on here?

RABIN-HAVT: Well, the president is Black, Michael. I don`t know if you
know that.


RABIN-HAVT: Yeah. I`m just going to say it like there`s what happened.
And look, it`s a double standard, it`s a triple standard and it`s a race
standard. And it`s because Republican set a strategy. And this is really
serious. They set a strategy that Barack Obama was the other. He was a
Muslim, he was a communist. And oh, yeah, he`s a Kenyan and he`s not

This was part of a Republican strategy. You see it actually in the Bowe
Bergdahl situation. He`s negotiating with terrorists. It`s been a
Republican message all along and it`s sick.

DYSON: Well do you think -- look, in light of Cantor stepping down, do you
think that Ted Cruz is taking heart because after all, he is the Tea Party
personified? And what do you think about the prospects for immigration

RABIN-HAVT: I mean, I`m not hoping for immigration reform. I think he was
a high bar before and now, I think, every Republican is going to run
scared. I think they were scared to their Tea Party base before. They
came out a little bit, McConnell and other victories caused them to peak
out to their shells but now they`re going to run scaring back in.

DYSON: Well, do you think that, you know, other people said, "Look, it`s
really not about immigration reform. It`s about the fact he didn`t take
your business at home." Many people who signed the anti-amnesty, you know,
pledge were themselves ousted. So it`s not so much a referendum on
immigration reform as it is on the fact that Cantor didn`t work well. And
then secondly, they said, "Look this guy was for the STOCK Act", which was
going to keep inside trading, you know, from Congress people and their
families from being, you know, being something, the practices that they
could do. But then Cantor was the one who said, "No, we going to mix this
in a certain way and allowed this go on."

So do you think those kind of insight base on political facts really sank
him or do you think he`s really a simple as Tea Party guy got in on the
immigration reform?

RABIN-HAVT: Well, I think there are two different questions. First, what
do Republicans in the House think? And they all are scaring on

So, I think what matter is Republicans in the House think this was
immigration. My eight grade Social Studies teacher, my 12 grade Social
Studies teaches Mr. Keil (ph) always said there`s a multiplicity of causes
in history. And I think there are multiplicity of causes to Eric Cantor
losing his election.

I think he lose his election because he wasn`t in his district. He loss
his election because people don`t like him and he loss his election because
he got out run on some issues.

DYSON: Yeah, no doubt about it. A Brat did him. Ari Rabin-Havt, thanks
so much for joining us here tonight.

RABIN-HAVT: Thank you very much.

DYSON: Still ahead, President Obama`s push to help young men of color
might be expanding. Plus the devil losing the details.

Louie Gohmert got his bible lessons all wrong. We`ll see him straight in
the Rapid Response Panel. But next, I`m taking your questions, Ask MED
Live is just ahead.

Stay tune.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We loved hearing from our viewers.
Tonight in the Ask MED Live, our question is from Brent (ph). "Does Erick
Cantor qualify for unemployment?"

That`s a great question. Look, I know economist so I don`t really know if
he does or not. But I can tell you this, given his wealth, I don`t think
he needs to stand on that unemployment line. But I do also know this that
when it came time for extending the unemployment insurance for the severely
and chronically unemployed, Eric Cantor was not on board.

What did he say? We are concerned about the employed not the unemployed,
about employment not unemployment. Well, today he knows personally what
that unemployment is like, except he`s not suffering like the rest of those
people were suffering.

Here`s our next question. It`s from Marilyn, "Why are the Republicans so
thrilled at hurting immigrants and not giving them a chance at
citizenship?" Oh I`ll tell Marilyn I don`t want to demonize my opponents.
I don`t like to think of other people who disbelieve what I believe to be
somehow horrible human beings. But I got to tell you, I can find no good
reason that people would look at those 50 children really being warehoused
in such vicious and horrible fashion and think anything else but that we
have got t o help them.

You know, we spew a lot of religious discourse. We`re going to talk a
little bit about it in the show later on today, all of these Christian
rhetoric about we are sanctified and save and belief in the righteousness
of God and yet we allow people to suffer in deprive fiction.

My former mentor, the late Reverend Doctor James Washington said, "Some
people go to church to love God instead of their neighbor." I feel about
some of the Republicans that they would rather love God instead of their
neighbors that they see before them because it demand something serious of
them, a commitment to those who were the least of this.

So I don`t why the Republicans do that but if they want to redeem their
reputations as human beings, I said they join the rest of us and get
concerned about the least of these, who are immigrants, who deserved a path
to citizenship in America.

Stick around, the Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap. Stocks end in a read, the Dow falls 102 points, the S&P shed
6, the Nasdaq also losing 6 points.

The World Bank cut its outlook for global growth, unnerving investors and
now expects the world economy to grow at just of 2.8 percent rate this year
down from 3.2 percent, it had predicted at the start of 2014. And demand
for mortgage increased last week, applications jumping 10 percent -- 10.3
percent that is. Interest rates actually rose slightly to 4.34 percent.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business world wide.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Congressman Louie Gohmert is making
great use of your tax payer dollars. The Texas Congressman is concern your
religious liberty is under attack. At a House Judiciary Committee hearing
on religious freedom on Tuesday, Gohmert grilled Reverend Barry Lynn, who
supports the separation of church and state.

Congressman Gohmert try to make the case non-Christians are going to hell.


REP. LOUIE GOHMERT, [R] TEXAS: I`m curious in your Christian beliefs, do
you believe in sharing the good news that will keep people from going to
hell consistent with the Christian beliefs?

LYNN: Yeah, I wouldn`t agree with your construction of what hell is like
or why one gets there. But the broader question is, yes I`m happy too.
When I speak to.

GOHMERT: OK. So you don`t believe somebody would go to hell if they do
not believe Jesus is the way to truth to the life?

LYNN: I personally do not believe people go to hell because they don`t
believe on a specific set of ideas in Christianity.

GOHMERT: No, no, no, not a set of ideas, either you believe as a Christian
that Jesus is the way to truth to life or you don`t. And there`s nothing
wrong in our country with that.


DYSON: It takes a lot of nerve for someone who uses his faith as a tool
for getting elected, to question the faith of a minister. The Reverend
Barry Lynn came right back at Gohmert with this response.


LYNN: Congressman, what I believe is not necessarily what I think ought to
justify the creation of public policy for everybody for the 2000 different
religions that exist in this country, the 25 million non-believers. I`ve
never been offended, I have never been afraid to share my belief.


DYSON: Gohmert wouldn`t back down. He ended this exchange with the
Reverend by reiterating his bogus belief.


GOHMERT: By the Christian believe that you say it is, whatever you choose
to think about Christ, whether or not you believe those words he said that
nobody basically goes to heaven except through me.


DYSON: Joining me now is our Rapid Response Panel, the Reverend Barry Lynn
himself, Executive Director of Americans United for the separation of
church and state and Liberal Commentator, an all around Renaissance man,
John Fugelsang.

Reverend, with you first, is Gohmert is wrong when says that all non-
Christians -- I can`t even finish the question, are going to hell?

LYNN: No. I presumed that he means that at least three of the members of
the very Subcommittee who were present at that time, who I know to be non-
Christians are also going to hell. This was the bizarre inquisition I have
ever had testifying before Congress. I`ve testified on all kinds of
controversial issues, dozens and dozens of times. And here in what I
should have been a hearing on the status of religious freedom in America
for five minutes, became a hearing on how to avoid hell with the answer
apparently being, if you are Christian like Congressman Gohmert, you go to
heaven if you`re like me.


LYNN: Bye, bye, it`s hell time.

DYSON: It`s hell time. Well John, (inaudible) of the people, you could
testify to that yesterday. Well so John -- John, what do you make of, you
know, Gohmert`s position here? I mean, what.

FUGELSANG: Well, I don`t want to bad mouth Louie Gohmert too much because
for millions of Americans Michele Bachmann is way to cerebral.

And Louie Gohmert said to feel that void. But the only non-Christian went
to hell yesterday was Erick Cantor.

DYSON: Yeah.

FUGELSANG: It`s deeply offensive. Jesus lived and died a Jew. He wasn`t
a Christian. So I assumedly means Jesus is in hell along with Moises,
along with Gandhi, Malcolm X, Golda Meir, all the American Indians or half
the bands I like.

The real thing is that this is him telling us based exactly what they want
to hear. And.

DYSON: Right.

FUGELSANG: .you know, like they want to hear at the separation of church
and state is some radical liberal idea.

DYSON: Right.

FUGELSANG: I was thrilled that Reverend Barry there, not just because I`d
like to see Reverend Barry in Congress but because separation of church and
state is technically the conservative point-of-view.

DYSON: Right.

FUGELSANG: And it was -- what Louie Gohmert needs to worry about is the
separation of sheep and goats. Because as you all, Reverend men will know
Matthew 25, Jesus lays it out.

DYSON: Correct.

FUGELSANG: If you`re not looking out for the poor, to the sick and being
next to those in prison, you`re with the goats not with my sheep. And
Louie Gohmert`s whole brand of Christianity is killing any kind of bill
that might help the least among us.

He thinks Jesus wants us to help the poor by killing any programs that
might possibly help the poor.

DYSON: Yeah. You know what Reverend? That`s a great point he`s making.
And so why is that we get thing mixed up so much? Why was Gohmert trying
to -- what was he trying to accomplish in this hearing by making such a
spurious claim about heaven and hell?

LYNN: I don`t know what he was trying to prove. Frankly, it was five
minutes and I`ve watch the tape a couple times. I`m still confused. But I
did know this, he`s kind of a walking talking example of why we need
separation of church and state.

We don`t need politicians of any stripe deciding who is the best Christian
or what religions are better than others. But Mr. Gohmert frankly uses his
religious beliefs not only to oppose marriage equality for example and
disapproval of abortion. But recently he even said in other hearing that
Comcast should be carrying more channels like the Glenn Beck network. And
not -- he said not cover Al Jazeera, because they`re trying to sneak Sharia
Law into the United States.

This is exactly why do we need to keep the church and the state separate.
This is why we shouldn`t be having the time and the tax dollars of America
spent on having this religious debate.

I could have quoted scripture back to him and I said after the hearing I
would be happy to talk theology but in appropriate place, maybe over lunch
not on a congressional hearing.

DYSON: Well, no doubt. Sending people to hell, maybe separation of church
and faith.

So is he just playing to what base here?

FUGELSANG: It`s all he`s doing is playing to the base. This guy is one
chromosome away from the compound in Big Love, alright? And he`s telling
them exactly what they want to hear.

He wasn`t saying anything specific or whatsoever. And let`s not forget
these guys long list of saying that, to Al-Qaeda`s smuggling and pregnant
women to give birth to terror babies here. And this guy bears false
witness so much that every time he opens his mouth some guy at PolitiFact
has to call his wife and say, "Honey I`m not making it home for dinner
tonight. Louie Gohmert is talking right now."

The fact is, that this what he does, it`s gibberish. And maybe it works
for him in the short run but it`s not Christian, it`s nor pro democracy.
And this theocratic Reese`s cup, they`re trying to sale us. "Hey, you got
your church in my state." "Well you got your state in my church, it taste
great." I don`t like how it tastes." "Shut up."

That`s exactly what they`re selling us. And the founding fathers will be
disgusted by you.

DYSON: Oh my god, I can never eat another peanut butter Reese`s cup, what
chocolate ever cup.

So Reverend Lynn, Gohmert loves to throw his faith around but would Jesus
be happy with a lot of his positions like cutting food stamps and
disregarding the poor and really trying to beat up on those who are

LYNN: Yeah -- no, personally, I don`t think so. I think Jesus was more
inclusive fellow and I think that`s absolutely clear. But I also think
that my interpretation of scripture in the unlike the event John that
anyone would elect me to office. I wouldn`t be trying to quote my version
of scripture back to somebody else either.

We have commonly shared values there, the values of the constitution.
Yesterday`s religious freedom, do we have it or not have it, hearing was a
good idea. I said for Christians in America, we have a dizzying level of
freedom, when it comes to minority phase non-believers, when it comes to
the imposition of religion on other people who suffered because of it,
things like denying women contraceptive coverage under -- even under some
interpretations by courts of the Affordable Care Act. That`s the real
issue. That`s what should have been talked about yesterday.

I had to spend five minutes talking about that and five minutes chatting
with another member of congress about some arcane, historical issue. There
are real questions, women are really hurt by being denied birth control.
That`s what we should have been talking about yesterday, the entire

DYSON: Yes and Bart Bultman (ph) and Cone (ph) might have been going (ph)
there too.

Look, tell us, do you think that Jesus would have been voting for Louie

FUGELSANG: No. I actually -- Reverend I don`t think that. I don`t think
-- and I think Jesus would have a lot of problems at the two party systems
as it now stands.

DYSON: Yeah.

FUGELSANG: However, Louie Gohmert`s agenda and the agenda of most of Right
Wing Christians are exactly what Jesus talks about in Matthew 25. I mean,
this was a guy who was a radical non-violent revolutionary, hang out with
lapars, hookers and crooks, never spoke English, wasn`t an American
citizen, anti-wealth, anti-public prayer, Matthew 6:5. You know what I`m
about talking Reverend Barry. Never anti-gay, never mention abortion,
long-haired, brown skinned, community organizing, homeless Middle Eastern,
unarmed Jew. That`s the guy we`re talking about.

Jesus couldn`t get a job and have some pancakes in the society now. And
Louie Gohmert and his elk will be the first ones lining up to nailed him
all over again.

LYNN: And yet they keep flipping the theology and flipping the bible as if
they`re working it how to.


LYNN: I think.


LYNN: .Michael, I think that the gentleman who defeated Eric Cantor
announce today that it was a God given miracle that he won.


LYNN: And I think what he -- I think he really was suggesting as so many
politicians do. Here in Washington, it`s like the word processing program
has God bless America. Automatically it touched to every speech.

DYSON: Exactly. Yeah.

LYNN: .on every subject. Don`t act like God is on your side.

DYSON: Yeah.

LYNN: God doesn`t know political parties, is not registered. I don`t even
know of he`s voting.

FUGELSANG: Louie Gohmert is the same what he said the Aurora shooting was
-- because God was punishing us, for taking amount of public life. I mean,
the guy will exploit scripture anytime to get a cheap point with his base.
He compared the President to Hitler. Somewhere in actually hell, Hitler is
furious at him for comparing into a black dude but Louie, Hitler will tell
you when he sees you.

DYSON: I`ll tell you God want to be left out of all of this mess. To be
sure Reverend Barry Lynn and John Fugelsang, thank you so much.

LYNN: Thank you, both.

DYSON: Coming up, preacher Pat has had it again. We`ve got a new instant
classic to add to his hits, like these.


PAT ROBERSON: Stop talking about the cheating, he cheated on you. Well,
he`s at my end, OK.

Yes, I think those vampire movies are evil. It may give you some kind of a
thrill. like, you know, (inaudible).

All this is mac and cheese, if that a black sign?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a black thing Pat.



DYSON: In pretender tonight, crossing the line. Pat Robertson, the 700
Club host says, the hundreds of undocumented children held at Arizona`s
border are evidence of President Obama`s failing mental health?


ROBERTSON: These little children are being use as pones to come across the
border. Once they get here though the next thing you know, they`ll be
citizen, they`ll be qualified for healthcare, health or education
(inaudible) and the other. I don`t understand it. I really don`t
understand if what`s happening in the border. It`s like Obama is just gone


DYSON: Crazy? That`s the sheep calling the right white. Robertson shifts
from highlighting the innocents of the children to painting them as
moochers who will take free this, that, and the other. He`s basic
ignorance on the issue should disqualify him from conducting the


ROBERTSON: His government is allowing things to happen that shouldn`t
happen. And they have these detainees and they`re dumping thousands of
them on the streets of Arizona and then this Border States. And is this
the way to get immigration reform?


DYSON: Robertson`s philosophy is the epiphany of the obstruction the
President faces. The horrible situation of the border isn`t how we get
immigration reform. It happens because house Republicans block reform. If
Pat Robertson thinks crazy describes anything but his own commentary, he
can keep on pretend.


DYSON: Breaking news from Capitol Hill. If at first you don`t succeed,
the senate has voted to pass Senator Bernie Sander`s VA Reform Bill by a 93
to 3 vote. The bill is very similar to legislation previously passed in
the House. Both the House and Senate bills would allow veterans to seek
care at non-VA medical centers.

If they live more than 40 miles from a VA clinic or if they have
experienced long waits for an appointment, both measures would also require
an independent performance assessment for the Veterans Health
Administration, which runs VA hospitals.

Now, to other news. Young people in America needs to be set up for
success. Too many kids are at a disadvantage, simply because of the color
of their skin. In February, President Obama launched an initiative called
"My Brother`s Keeper" to address persistent opportunity gaps faced by young
men of color.


I firmly believe that every child deserves the same chances that I had.
That`s why we`re here today.

I`m going to pen this presidential memorandum to determine what we can do
right now to improve the odds for boys and young men of color. And we`re
committed to building on what works. And we call it "My Brother`s Keeper."


DYSON: The plot of the young black males has been heavily documented. A
2012 report by the Schott Foundation for Public Education said that only 52
percent of black males completed high school in four years compared to 78
percent of white males.

The taskforce for My Brothers` Keeper identified six major milestones that
can affect the life trajectory of minority boys and men. The milestones
include entering school, ready to learn, reading at grade level by third
grade, graduating from high school ready for college, completing full
secondary education, entering the work force, and reducing neighborhood

But as the program moves forward, the outcry for a similar initiative focus
on the needs of girls and young women of color has grown louder.

Doctor Peniel Joseph, professor of African-American studies at Tufts
University joins me now. Professor Joseph, thank so much for coming on.

Recently, more than 200 black men scholars, passes, educators in Civil
Rights advocates including yourself, signed an open letter to President
Obama expressing your concerns about the need for a similar program
dedicated to the unique (inaudible) of girls and young women of color, do
you think President Obama will listen and tell us why it`s important to
have both and nor either or (ph)?

DR. PENIEL JOSEPH, TUFTS UNIVERSITY: Well, Doc, thanks for having me on.
I think that it`s crucially important to think about young girls because
young girls are facing the same crisis that these young black boys are
facing. And I think that when we leave young girls out of the equation,
it`s disappointing because when we think about issues of sexes and then
misogyny and sort of trying to transform poverty and really the
marginalization of black youth in our culture, black women and young girls
have to be a big part of that.

DYSON: Well, picking up on where you left out there, school suspension
rates for black girls are far greater than their white counterparts. By
the time they reach their 18th birthday, more than half of all black women
have been sexually assaulted. Black women also suffer higher rates of
domestic violence and murder than other women. So shouldn`t there be a
program for early intervention for them, as well?

JOSEPH: No, absolutely. I think one of the great things about My
Brother`s Keeper and when you read the 90 page or the 60 page taskforce
report is that they`re doing things like thinking about how do we make
young boys role model non-violence against women. And that`s crucially
important. But when you think about what black women are facing, black
women are disproportionately heading poor households in United States, for

Black women`s wealth -- the wealth gap between black and white women is
enormous. So the idea of a pipeline, we talk about cradle to college
pipeline, and ladders of opportunity, it can`t just be for young black

DYSON: Why is it so hard for us to think about these things in
simultaneous fashion that historically, black women have been marginalized
when it comes to the rhetoric freedom and liberty for African-American
people, it`s been a largely male and masculine limbs through which is been
viewed? Why is it so difficult for us to see the necessity of bringing
votes to bear?

JOSEPH: I think what`s happening right now, doc, is that when we think
about black men and the enormous rates of African-American men in prison,
they`re not doing well, when you think about social economic indicators.
In fact, this conservation, when you think about -- for the black
community, it`s very important that you`re a role model and an inspiration
to millions of black people but especially black men.

And so I think the crisis that black males are facing, it is deep, it`s
genuine, it`s real but sometimes it makes us overlook the fact that we have
to think about our young girls and transforming the culture...

DYSON: All right.

JOSEPH: ... that they live as well.

DYSON: Thank you sir. Doctor Peniel Joseph, thanks for your time tonight.

JOSEPH: Thank you.

DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with the Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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