All In With Chris Hayes, Wednesday, July 2nd, 2014
Read the transcript from the Wednesday show
ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
July 2, 2014
Guest: Enrique Morones, Goldie Taylor, Monifa Bandele, Sam Seder
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight, we are ALL IN.
CROWD: USA! USA!
HAYES: The immigration wars are back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back home.
HAYES: Migrant women and children turned away by angry protesters in
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Normandy Beach of our fathers.
HAYES: With more buses coming today, the counter protests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the people of Escondido and Murrieta
afraid of? Nine-year-olds?
HAYES: We`ll bring you the latest on the ongoing crisis at the
Then, East Jerusalem erupts. Another teen, this time Palestine,
abducted and killed.
AYMAN MOHYELDIN, NBC NEWS: We were on the other side with the
HAYES: Ayman Mohyeldin is in the middle of it and he joins me
Plus, Target takes a stand on guns and their stores.
Tropical storm Arthur takes aim at the coast.
And why American workaholics are donating a million years of labor to
ALL IN starts right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting their attention.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
The immigration crisis has turned ugly. Thousands of unaccompanied
minors from Central America often fleeing some of the highest rates of
violence in the world have overwhelmed DHS officials and galvanized
politicians on both sides of the aisle.
Today, immigration officials are not disclosing where 140 undocumented
migrants have been taken. That`s following a protest in Murrieta,
California, with protesters screaming, "go home", and chanting "USA", and
waiving American flags.
MIGUEL ALMAGUER, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: At the center of the
immigration crisis, three buses forced to turn around and head to a holding
facility along the U.S.-Mexico border. Inside, 140 undocumented immigrants
from Central America, mostly mothers and their young children, now, alone
and scared walking into an uncertain future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not born here. They need to go back to
ALMAGUER: This is how they were greeted when they arrived in
Murrieta, California, 100 miles north of the border.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move or you will be cited.
ALMAGUER: The anger, tension, what many called hate was palpable.
CROWD: USA, USA!
ALMAGUER: Dozens of protesters refusing to allow the young families
into their community. But more than voices were raised. This immigration
advocate was spit on.
DIANA RODRIGUEZ: It`s heartbreaking to see this happening, coming
from the land of opportunity.
ALMAGUER: This young mother carried her 14-month-old Baby Boy William
from Honduras, across 1,000 miles of uncertainty.
"It was very unjust and full of hate," she says, "especially because
we are people that are just coming here to look for a better life."
HAYES: That was Miguel Almaguer reporting for NBC News.
Murrieta City officials are expecting more migrants to arrive possibly
as soon as Friday, the 4th of July. Officials are expecting more protests
Meanwhile, a coalition of counter protesters and charitable
organizations is doing what they can to help.
Joining me now is Enrique Morones. He`s founder and executive
director of Border Angels, a humanitarian organization that assists
migration. He was at the protest.
Enrique, you were there yesterday at this protest to stop the buses.
What was it like, who were the people that had showed up for this?
ENRIQUE MORONES, BORDER ANGELS: That`s right, Chris. It was a very
sad situation. I`m very proud of my Mexican heritage. I was born right
here in San Diego.
I`ve been to protests all over the world. Let`s stick with the United
States. I have never seen something so vile and hateful like those 50
people that were out there screaming at children and mothers on buses that
have no idea what`s going on. They`re trying to escape this violent
situation in their homeland in Central America. They cross after a 1,000-
mile journey, get into Texas, fly to San Diego, take a bus to Murrieta.
And then, as the buses approached, as the buses approached, the border
patrol facility in Murrieta, the police almost encouraged the protesters to
stand in front of the bus, because the streets were clear. The busses
could have easily driven in. All of a sudden, they stop in front of the
protesters? That doesn`t make any sense.
So, when one guy comes out and starts screaming at the bus and the
kids. So, they see that nothing is happening, more people join, then the
media joins. So, there`s 40 or 50 people there, half-media, half
protesters, and Murrieta police are just standing there.
Violence could have really exploded. There was a little bit of
violence. The children are terrified.
That`s not what this country is all about, it was sad to see, and it
was one of the worst days of my life. It was very, very shameful. The
whole world is watching.
And I really believe, Chris, that this could be the turning point in
the immigration debate. This would be our Rosa Parks movement. Instead of
somebody moving to the back of the bus, the bus is backed up, the whole
world saw it.
We need humane policies. These children are our children. They`re
all of our children, and a society is judged on how we treat our children.
We want to treat them with love.
That`s why we`re glad to come to San Diego. The reception we gave
them last night was music and flowers and love. And now, we`re very much
prepared to take those children and mothers when they`re released from
custody, and have them stay with us or putting them in shelters. Having
them be with their loved ones here in the United States.
HAYES: Did the protesters understand -- first of all, my
understanding is that the city council and mayor, if not explicitly siding
with the protesters, basically had sort of tacitly thrown their approval
behind it, is that right?
MORONES: Yes, I don`t know what their position was officially, but I
know what their position was. They -- you know, I don`t have the document,
but the mayor definitely was in cahoots with the police chief, because
those buses were going to be stopped and those buses were going to be
Why didn`t they just tell the border patrol that so they didn`t have
to bring them up to Murrieta? Why the show of hate?
This was Selma, Alabama 50 years ago. I thought those days were over,
but obviously, they are not.
HAYES: I should --
MORONES: But I have faith on the American people. That does not
represent the American people.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, that -- we should say that -- first of all, I
should say that claim about the mayor and police being in cahoots, there`s
no confirmation on that. We should reach out to the mayor who we talked to
about coming on tonight to get his side of that.
That said, this is a small group of people. Give me the context of
what was happening in Murrieta, California, what is that town like? And
also, these buses were going to let these mothers and children off, they
were going to get their court date and then be released. Isn`t that right?
MORONES: Yes. But the buses were going to go into the border patrol
facility. They were going to be released in front of the people. The
buses were supposed to roll through the streets of Murrieta, which is a
small town. It`s known for its hot springs, it`s a little resort. There`s
wine country in the area.
So, it`s a little community. I think the fame that they received --
of what happened yesterday is not the fame they want to have. They don`t
want to have the Hazleton, Pennsylvania, or Selma, Alabama or Farmers
Branch, Texas, where we`ve seen this hate rise, and we`ve seen this hate be
shown all over the world, and, fortunately, the overwhelming majority of
the American people say, we do not stand for that, that`s not who we are.
Those are not our values.
It was a sad day in American history yesterday. And we`re going to
And I went there not to counter-protest. I went there just to
observe. The young man that you saw there that was spit on and so forth,
he came with a couple of his friends, he did go to a counter-protest, not
in a violent way, in a peaceful way, but he was attacked. They threw a
punch at him, they threw a sign out, they spit on him as you saw, while the
police stood idly by.
What are they going to say? We weren`t in cahoots. I was there, I
And I know that the police force in this country does a good job, not
that police force, that police force definitely acted in a way that the
buses would be stopped and the protesters would chant their hate. That`s
not what the United States is all about.
Before we were us, before we were us as a nation, we were them. How
dare us have this type of a group of people -- freedom of speech is one
thing, but not violence. Not terrifying these children who -- it was a
disgrace, and the Border Agents will continue to do our efforts, to welcome
these children, we`re housing these children. We`re welcoming them.
That`s what this country is all about.
HAYES: There was a counter-protest, I should note, and there is I
think, we should note this is a small group of people. I mean, it`s the
shocking images that have made them ripple out across TV and across the
country today. But it was a relatively small group of people.
That said, we have seen this kind of frenzy being whipped up around
the, quote, "crisis" at the border, which is a humanitarian crisis, it`s a
crisis about making sure that children and migrants are cared for, that
their accorded due process, they can be safely housed and processed.
I think that -- it seems to me that people have the wrong idea about
who exactly was on that bus. Do you think the people standing there next
to you at the protest understood, this was moms with toddlers?
MORONES: Oh, they understood. If that bus was full of Canadians,
Chris, you and I would not be talking right now. They knew full well, this
is the same group that was protesting in Escondido a few days earlier, this
is the same group that used to be out there with the Minutemen, because
many of them were Minutemen when the Minutemen used to exist.
The country rejected them. We will not stand for that type of
message. And that`s why they have been shut down.
But they`re going to be roving around, they`re going to be going to
these sites and trying to pretend like they`re from Murrieta or from
Escondido. Some of the people are local, but most of them are not.
HAYES: That`s a good --
MORONES: These are members of the Federation of American Immigration
Reform, which as you know, is a hate group, classified as a hate group by
the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Anti-Defamation league. I recognize a
lot of the faces, I could name some of those people.
MORONES: As they were yelling my name I wasn`t responding, I was
there to observe.
President Obama said this is a humanitarian crisis, and it is. We
need a humanitarian response.
We housed one of the families already. We had a woman from Guatemala
with two children, 4 and 9 years old. We housed them. We protected them.
We sent them across the country to be with her husband.
These people deserve the right to be treated with dignity and respect.
If their lives are in danger, we`ve got to protect their lives.
HAYES: Enrique Morones from Border Angels, thank you very much.
MORONES: Thank you very much.
HAYES: When the Republicans fully realize it or not, the images of
those anti-immigration protesters is a huge problem for them, because this
is how conservative media is framing what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just telling you about this, they are fed
CROWD: Go back. Go back. USA! USA!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Every Republican in America should be terrified when they look
at images like that, because many, many Latino voters will see that, both
the protests and the conservative media`s treatment of it, and think to
themselves, I don`t want to vote for the same people that those people vote
It`s one thing for Republicans to kill immigration reform which will
hurt them with Latino voters enough. But those images like the ones we
just showed you can be even more damaging, and they have been before. The
last time a bipartisan effort for immigration reform came around in 2006
and 2007, the death blow came in the form of similar nonfactual hysteria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Mohammed Atta and several
other hijackers were in the United States illegally. Today, more than five
years since that tragic day, our borders remain open to gangs, drug dealers
But instead of protecting the borders, the new McCain/Kennedy
immigration plan will put millions of people who are in country illegally,
including potential terrorists and gang men, on a path to U.S. citizenship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, NBC News contributor, attorney Raul Reyes.
And I have this thought last night, Raul, which is, if you want to be
a Republican nominee for president in 2016, I would go to the nearest
microphone and denounce that protest.
RAUL REYES, NBC NEWS: Right.
HAYES: Because you do not -- the problem that Republicans have is
that those folks and the people that are spewing really kind of vile stuff
around this issue are associated with the conservative movement.
Conservative movement is associated with the Republican Party. And so, the
Republican Party that has killed immigration reform.
HAYES: And you need to put some distance between yourself and those
REYES: And these type of images for the Republican party, it`s like a
time bomb. And I have to say, you know, I want to echo a little bit of
what Mr. Morones said, I`m a native Californian too. My heritage is
That`s still shocking to me as a Californian to see that. You know,
as you know, California is a very diverse state. I tend to agree with him
that maybe those people are not representative of Murrieta.
HAYES: Of Murrieta, yes.
REYES: But the fact is, those images will be everywhere.
The scary thing is that Republicans strategically are in a dangerous
spot, because look what`s going to happen now. President Obama is going to
take executive action on immigration. That will inflame the same type of
people who are protesting, which will only reinforce this negative anti-
And then, coming up in the next election cycle, whichever Republicans
are running for the nomination, they`re going to have to run for the
primaries of trying to take those things back, like to revoke protected
status for immigrants.
HAYES: That is a great point, right? They`re going to have -- this
is something that Jose Antonio Vargas said right here at this table, if
executive action has been the problem, then you need to come clear and say
whether you`re favor, revoking them and deporting those people, right?
HAYES: And it`s one thing -- I mean, think about how crazy this is.
We had the election in 2012, Mitt Romney got his clock cleaned among Latino
voters. There was great consensus among all the elites in the conservative
movement and the Republican Party, comprehensive immigration reform, get
right with Latino voters. We are at a point where you can say that, in
some ways, the Republican Party has moved to the right.
HAYES: If what they`re going to end up calling for is mass
deportation as their immigration plan.
REYES: The -- what I see is the tactical mistake they`ve made. Many
of the Republicans, the center -- the moderate ones have backed off the
issue to sort of advocate responsibility for leading the government. What
has happened, into the vacuum we have the Steve Kings -- they seem radical
and out there --
HAYES: Iowa congressman who is extremely far to the right.
REYES: Right. But on this issue, he is the face of the GOP. He`s
filling the void, and that is so dangerous for the Republican Party.
HAYES: And you know who knows this better than anyone is John McCain,
because it was John McCain who`s name was on that bill, 2006-2007, who has
been good on this issue in the past. His name was McCain/Kennedy, that
bill. That bill got killed.
When he ran in 2008, he ended up being associated with what Rush
Limbaugh was saying about immigration -- or Lou Dobbs at that time, because
it was understood I think by Latino voters, that they were basically two
big political collisions in America, and one had those folks and one
didn`t. And you`ve (INAUDIBLE)
REYES: Right. It plays out especially among Latino voters as a very
sharp divide, us, them.
And I often tell people, because they say for the Latino -- aren`t
there other issues for Latino voters? Yes, of course there are, from the
country. But when you look at Spanish language media or even among very
assimilated Hispanics, for us, this is the civil rights issue of our time.
It`s the gateway issue.
HAYES: It`s a threshold issue.
HAYES: It`s like, do you want to be in a political coalition that is
the same political coalition that contains the people in that --
REYES: And I know many people who are Latino Republicans, and they
feel -- they feel embarrassed, they feel ashamed, they gradually, I`ve seen
several of them go over to the Democratic side, because they want to be
Republicans, but they feel the party doesn`t want them, and meanwhile, even
the general public tends to drift off, you know, when we`re not in a
presidential year, the public drifts off in many issues.
But this issue is still being followed very closely, according to the
research firm, Latino Decisions -- 66 percent of Latino voters are
following this issue closely.
HAYES: And let me just put a cap on it. To play the mayor of
Murrieta, talking about this, about his views on what happened yesterday.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Are you proud or embarrassed about what happened in your
ALAN LONG, MURRIETA, CA MAYOR: As far as exercising the
constitutional rights, I`m proud of that. People need to understand that
they are showing their emotion and passion about a federal policy that`s
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I`m proud of that. What I saw -- I mean, that is the opposite
of what -- I think that a Republican who came forward, a prominent
Republican to just say, that`s not who we are, that`s not what we believe.
We have issues with the president on policy. We don`t believe in screaming
"go home" at mothers and children on buses.
REYES: Right. And when we think about the fact, the only immigration
bill, measure, that the House did pass was by Steve King, was a bill to
deport the DREAMer. Now, we have this humanitarian crisis on the border,
and the reaction of these far-right groups with the tacit approval by the
silence of many Republicans so far. So, twice, we have this message of --
deport children, get rid of young people, we don`t want you. Guarantee at
the local level, that mayor`s lying, even though it`s within a certain
context, "I am proud of those people who are screaming the hate," that is
going to be an ad used against him in that district.
HAYES: NBC News contributor Raul Reyes, thank you.
Coming up, Israeli soldiers fired rubber bullets and stun grenades at
Palestinians in East Jerusalem today. And one of our reporters were caught
in a crossfire. He will join me with the latest on the situation there,
HAYES: Coming up, can you imagine giving part of your compensation
back to your employer every year. That`s what a lot of us are doing, and
I`ll explain, ahead.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HAYES: Today in East Jerusalem, an NBC crew, including foreign
correspondent Ayman Mohyeldin, was caught in the middle of violent clashes
between Palestinians and Israeli police. Skirmishes in the streets of the
Jerusalem continued throughout the day today with young Palestinians
hurling rocks from behind improvised barricades, and Israeli security
forces responding with tear gas and stun guns.
And as relations between Israelis and Palestinians continue to
deteriorate, the situation is threatening to spin out of control. It was
almost three weeks ago, that three Israeli students disappeared while
hitchhiking home from Yeshiva in the West Bank.
After a massive search, the bodies of the three teens were finally
found two days ago in a field not far from where they were last seen.
No one has claimed responsibility, but Israel is assigning the blame
to Hamas. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu promising that Hamas would,
quote, "pay a heavy price."
Israel launched 34 airstrikes over the Gaza Strip Tuesday morning,
aiming primarily at Hamas targets, though Israeli official say the bombs
were in response to rockets that have been launched into Israel from the
While, Hamas is not typically shy about claiming credit for its acts
of violence, the group denies responsibility for kidnapping and killing the
But there`s a vocal chorus in Israel calling for vengeance.
Yesterday, anti-Palestinian crowds marched in the streets of Jerusalem,
clashing with police, reportedly, shouting "death to the Arabs." Five
Palestinians were attacked, according to Israeli newspaper "Haaretz".
Early this morning, Israeli police received reports a Palestinian
youth had been pulled into a car and possibly kidnapped in a neighborhood
of East Jerusalem. Less than two ours later, the burned body of a 16-year-
old Palestine boy was found in the woods near the outskirts of the city.
No one knows at this hour who carried out that murder, but it is
widely being seen as a reprisal killing for the deaths of those three
Israeli teenagers. According to the official Palestinian news agency, a
spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas claims Israel is fully
responsibility. And in the anger and sorrow over the boy`s death,
Palestinians took to the streets to vent their rage.
That`s when NBC`s Ayman Mohyeldin and his crew got caught in the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHYELDIN (voice-over): We are trapped behind a car with other
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Journalists! Journalists!
MOHYELDIN: Yelling at the Israelis that we are journalists, as
incoming fire lands inches away. We try to get out of harm`s way, soldiers
take aim at us and orders us back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I spoke to Ayman Mohyeldin just before we came on air and
asked him what happened.
MOHYELDIN: Well, Chris, earlier today in this neighborhood, where we
are today, where we are right now, the news of the Palestinian boy`s
killing really spread quickly and it angered a lot of the residents. And,
in fact, what ended up happening were some of the local residents started
to barricade the opposite ends of the neighborhood with makeshift scrap
metal, garbage dumpsters that they had, you know, put at the end of the
roads, to try to slow down any Israeli police from coming in. And that led
Now, earlier in the day, we were behind the Palestinian stone throwers
who are lobbing Molotov cocktails, as well as whatever they could get their
hands on onto those Israeli soldiers. But at one point, the Israeli police
rushed that barricade and actually broke it up, and they did so by firing
rubber bullets, as well as stun grenades onto the crowd.
Now, we took cover immediately, but we took behind a car, away from
where the Palestinians were throwing stones and where some of the police
were targeting their ammunition. But what ended up happening was, at one
point, the Israeli police lobbed some of those stun grenades in our
direction. And we started yelling at them that we were journalists and
wearing flack jackets just like this one, that are clearly marked "press".
But despite that fact they threw a few stun grenades in our direction, and
that was the intense moment -- intense exchange that happened with us
trying to get their attention so they would not fire at us.
HAYES: It looks as I watch this situation unfold from afar with the
kidnapping of the three Israelis, their bodies then found, this murder of a
Palestinian teenager, which looks to everyone like a reprisal killing, like
things are poised that things are about to explode in a terrible way. Is
that how it feels there?
MOHYELDIN: Absolutely. The intensity of these attacks, and the kind
of violence we see in the wake of these attacks continues to escalate. And
that really is the biggest indication that pressure is building up.
Now, you have to even go back beyond the killing and kidnapping of
those three Israeli teens. Several weeks ago in the middle of May, there
were two Palestinian boys that were killed by Israeli soldiers in the
occupied West Bank. And that led to even more violence by the Palestinian
side. There were clashes.
So, it`s a cycle of violence that continues with no end in sight. And
I know, sometimes, we use that expression that sounds a bit cliche, but the
pressure for the daily lives of people on both sides, continues to worsen,
particularly on the Palestinian side and the occupied West Bank, and in
areas like here, in East Jerusalem.
That tends to lead over to the kinds of clashes we see today, because
it really addresses more fundamental issues about justice, whether the
citizens of Israel, Palestinian citizens get treated as second class
citizens or not. Whether there is justice for the Israeli families who had
three of their family members killed with none of the suspects being
So, there`s all kinds of equations on both sides that they use to just
indicate that violence is continuing without any end in sight.
HAYES: The political context here strikes me as important, which is
that the government -- the Israeli government of Bibi Netanyahu strenuously
objected to the unity government that was announced several months ago
between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, Hamas and the Gaza
Strip. They have blamed the kidnapping and killing of these three young
Israelis at the feet of Hamas.
Is there evidence that Hamas is actually behind it that`s been
presented? Has Hamas taken credit? What do we know about Hamas`
MOHYELDIN: Well, the Israeli government has said categorically that
Hamas was responsible for this and that Hamas will pay for it. They have
not made any evidence yet public there have been anecdotal suggestions that
one of the burned vehicles found near one of the three Israeli individuals
belonged to member of Hamas. And certainly, Israel has a robust
intelligence apparatus that could evidence. But none of that has been made
Hamas itself is an organization, has denied any involvement in the
kidnapping or the killing. They didn`t distance themselves from praising
it. They certainly praised the kidnapping of the Israeli teens, but they
themselves -- neither them nor their military wing or any of their
affiliate organizations, including some of the Palestinians, have come out
with any serious claim of responsibility. And that in itself is somewhat
strange. Usually Hamas does take responsibility and claim responsibility
for the attacks that we`ve seen in the past.
HAYES: NBC News foreign correspondent Ayman Mohyeldin, stay safe.
MOHYELDIN: Thanks, Chris.
HAYES: Coming up, he first day of Georgia`s so called "guns
everywhere` law, went about as well as you would expect. That story is
HAYES: First tropical storm of the season, tropical storm Arthur is
due to make landfall on the east coast as a hurricane in the next 24 hours.
North Carolina is battening down the hatches and Governor Pat McCrory has
declared a state of emergency in 25 counties including Beaufort County,
which is where the town of Belhaven, North Carolina is located.
The residents would be wise to evacuate, because the lone hospital for
a county and a half, Vidant Pungo Hospital closed on July 1st. We brought
you the story of the fight to keep open Pungo Hospital as part of our "All
In America Behind The Color Line" series.
HAYES (voice-over): Adam O`Neal is the republican mayor of Belhaven,
North Carolina, a rural ocean side town. Home to Vidant Pungo Hospital.
Last year, Vidant Health, which owned the hospital along with a group of
investors, announced they would be closing Pungo.
The president of Vident Community Hospitals told "All In," the failure
to expand Medicaid in North Carolina does affect the number of patients we
care for that would have been covered under this program. But, the
expansion of Medicaid would not have altered this decision.
But, it is hard to overstate how important the hospital is to the town
of Belhaven. It serves a county and a half and is the largest employer in
the town. If it closes, O`Neal says residents would have to drive 75
minutes to the nearest emergency room. Chris Noble, a Methodist minister
in town says he is alive today because of Pungo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CORRESPONDENT: What happened?
CHRIS NOBLE, BELHAVEN METHODIST MINISTER: Well, it was January 12th,
Sunday morning, 2:00 A.M. and I had a heart attack and I coded before I got
to the hospital here. I was dead for 35 minutes. They had to fly me over
to Greenville and if it had not been for this emergency room, you would not
be interviewing me right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES (voice-over): Despite Vidant`s statements, Mayor O`Neal blames
his fellow republicans in the Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM O`NEAL, (R) BELHAVEN, NC, MAYOR: The thing is if the governor is
not going to -- If the legislature is not going to accept Medicaid
expansion, then they need to be coming up with their own program to help
these rural hospitals, because the fact is, if these hospitals close,
people are going to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES (on-camera): The man who is now providing the medical care for
that town and the absence of Pungo Hospital is this man, Charles Boyette.
An amazing country doctor, I had the chance to talk to while I was in North
Carolina, 50 years. That is how long he has taken care of the residents of
Belhaven. And, in that time, he has delivered more than 2,000 babies
there. You can check on my full interview with him at
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE NEWS ANCHOR: Some call it a victory for the
second amendment. Others are calling it much too extreme. It is legal to
carry a gun in some schools, churches, the airport, restaurants and bars if
you are a licensed gun owner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It is officially called the safe-carry protection act.
Unofficially, it is called the guns everywhere bill. It expands the places
in Georgia where people can carry guns -- well, almost everywhere.
Georgia`s new controversial gun law went into effect yesterday. And, the
worst fear of some gun safety activist is that the first 24 hours will look
like something like this --
Now, of course, those were not realized. But, there was this report
of two men carrying guns and getting into a confrontation inside a
convenience store. According to a police, a man carrying a holstered
firearm entered the store to make a purchase. Another customer also with a
holstered firearm approached him and demanded to see his identification and
When the one man refused to show his gun permit, the other guy, quote,
"Pulled his firearm from its holster, never pointed it at the other man."
So, we have two men, both with guns on their hips and ultimately one man
with a gun in his hand inside the convenient store arguing over open carry
The armed man being challenged to show his gun permit, paid for his
items, left the store and called for a police. The other armed man, the
one who pulled his gun was arrested for disorderly conduct. The guy who
refused to show his gun permit apparently knew he did not have to.
According to local police chief, under the new law even he as police
chief and his officers cannot demand to see a firearms permit. That does
not make a lot of sense to the police chief who told the local paper,
quote, "This is an example of my concern with the new gun law that people
will take the law into their own hands."
It does not sit well with the majority of Georgia voters either.
Nearly 60 percent disapprove of the new gun law nor does it make much sense
to the archbishop of Atlanta. Since schools and churches have to opt in to
the expansive new law. He says the church will not be opting in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARCHBISHOP WILTON GREGORY, ARCHBISHOP OF ATLANTA: I just want to make
sure that our folks know, except for those who are the legitimate
protectors of public safety, guns are not welcome in catholic churches, we
do not think that people come to church anticipating violence or to be
subject to a violent atmosphere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Thanks to the open carry movement, nationwide retailers are
finding, they need to opt out of open carry laws, asking customers to
please not bring guns to their stores. Target announced today, is adapting
a no guns policy. In a statement released earlier, Target CEO said, quote,
"Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with
the family friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create."
Joining me know is MSNBC Contributor Goldie Taylor. Goldie, I am
curious how that story that we showed a little bit of local news from
Georgia, I think from Atlanta. If the guns everywhere law that is going
effect yesterday is getting local coverage in a kind of skeptical way.
GOLDIE TAYLOR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: It is a pretty skeptical way, and I
saw one poll that said some 70 percent of Georgians do not agree with this
law. You know, some 500,000 Georgians have a gun permit, all right, to
carry in this state. That is about 5 percent of the population.
I can imagine a crazy hot summer day. You know, when some of those
people are not quite in their right mind or may be they are reacting to
something they think they need to defend. But, this place could quickly
become the OK corral. And, I am not OK. I love my state. I do not like
what we are becoming.
You know, we are not -- This is not about the long range or bonanza or
some episode like that. This is about law abiding people who want to feel
at peace in their church. They want to feel at peace in their local Target
store, they want to feel at peace in their local Starbucks.
And, so, you know, I think that the very notion that this law allows
people to opt in, such as schools or churches. You know, without the input
from community leaders, I think, it is unfortunate. But, bars and
restaurants, they have to physically opt out, and they cannot stop their
customers and ask to see a gun permit or even an identification without
probable cause, and the mere presence of a gun does not amendment to
HAYES: Right. I mean if you have not opted out, the default for bars
is that they have to opt out. So, if you have not opted out, you know? Go
into a bar, order a few drinks and think about this, bars are places that
could refuse to serve people a pint of beer, right? Cannot ask people to
leave their gun, unless they opted out to leave their gun outside of the
TAYLOR: Well, the law does say that someone carrying a gun inside of
a bar or restaurant cannot consume alcohol. And, so there was at least one
safety hatch here.
TAYLOR: But, the notion that there is a weapon inside of a crowded
nightclub, when alcohol is being consumed by others, you know, I think it
is a pretty risky venture.
HAYES: You also have local got school boards in Georgia that are
turning down the option to opt in and arm teachers. Georgia`s schools
resist arming teachers with guns despite new law. That also seems
sensible, but the law creates the ability for them to do so if they wanted
to pursue that.
TAYLOR: It does create the ability for school boards to designate
members of their staff including teachers and administrators to carry
weapons if they, so, deem it necessary. And, so, that is up to the school
board. You know, but I am finding that lot of Georgians are frankly opting
It is because people put pressure on retailers like Target and said we
will not shop in your stores if you allow open gun carry. That is why
Target changed it`s mind on this thing. And, so, you are going to find
many more retailers, you are going to find many churches, many school
boards, you are going to find many bars and nightclubs really reacting to
public pressure not to allow guns on their private premises.
You know, I think the open carry law is going to backfire in so many
ways. And, that when people begin to see this open-carry and realize what
kind of harm it could be for themselves, for their families, for their
children, you know, I think people are going to push back against it in a
very heavy way.
HAYES: I think you are exactly right. I think actually the best --
you know, we have seen a kind of wall of opposition to new gun safety
legislation. The NRA is very powerful. A small group of gun owners are
very powerful. It strikes me that we are seeing a backlash, all right?
It was never an issue whether you could bring guns into target until
the open carry people made it an issue. And, what they have gotten for
their efforts is Target saying, "Do not bring your guns in here." I think
in some ways, guns safety activist`s best friends at this point are the
open-carry folks are the folks pushing for the most extreme forms of second
TAYLOR: I think you are absolutely right about that. If I walk into
a Starbucks today and I see someone carrying a gun, I am going to turn tail
and walk out.
TAYLOR: That is going to cost Starbucks money. If I walk into my
church and I find that my church is desired to allow guns in that
sanctuary, I am going to turn around and walk out and that is going to
impact the attendance and thus the donations in my church.
TAYLOR: And, so I think it is going to take public pressure in a real
way to sort of reverse this. But, at the end of the day, this was not just
a republican governor who voted --
TAYLOR: You know, who sign this into law. This had bipartisan
support. You know, our democratic challenge here, Jason Carter voted for
HAYES: That is right. MSNBC Contributor, Goldie Taylor, a great
point there. Thank you.
TAYLOR: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up, why in the name of all that`s holy do not Americans
HAYES: If you are watching this right now, you are not working and I
am. Coming up, why taking a vacation is so stigmatized in this country.
So, stay with us, lockers.
HAYES: OK. Can you imagine a situation in which a worker would take
part of his or her paycheck and just give it back? Just say to the boss,
"You know what? I do not want this $1000, you keep it?" It is
preposterous. When it comes to time, as opposed to money, Americans do
just that. And, they do it all the time. And, Oxford Economics Analysis
found that Americans donning more than a million years of work annually to
their employers by not taking the vacation that is part of their
More than four of 10 employees finished 2013 with unused personal
time-off, the analysis found and they left an average of 8.1 days off
unused. That finding tracks another survey from April, which found the
average American employee only takes half of their paid time off and 61
percent report working while they are on vacation.
Now, you probably already know that Americans do not get much
vacation compared to people in other developed nations. In fact we are the
only advanced economy in the world that does not guarantee its workers paid
vacation. In Europe, people have a legal right to at least 20 paid days
off per year and that number rises to 25 or 30 days a year in some
In America, meanwhile, 22 percent of workers reported not getting any
paid vacation or paid time off, even sick days at all. As messed up as
that is, and it is really messed up. The weirdest thing to me about
American work culture is that we do not - even that we do not get as much
vacation as people in Europe and many other countries, is that we do not
even take the very little vacation time that we do get.
Joining me now, Monifa Bandele. She is Senior Campaign Director of
momsrising.org. MSNBC Contributor, Sam Seder, host of "Majority Report."
All right, when we get back, I want to know what is wrong with us, why we
are not taking vacations, stick around.
HAYES: We are back dear viewers in the eve of a long patriotic
weekend. I am here with Monifa Bandele and Sam Seder. And, before the
break I asked, OK, what is the reason Americans do not take the vacation
they have, right? So, we have to separate two questions. Because, there
is people that do not have vacation -- there is a very obvious reason for a
lot of people, I do not get paid sick days, that`s not an option for me.
But the people who do, why do not they take it.
SAM SEDER, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: In the words of a great American
painter, who is known for his vacations, uniquely American. I think part
of it is --
HAYES: That is a reference to George W. Bush responding to a woman at
a town hall where she said she was working three jobs.
SEDER: That is right.
SEDER: I think now in particular, and not having a sense of how this
has changed over time. I think people are afraid. And, I think that there
is a real fear that, you know, I do not think they perceive they are
donating to their employer. I think they are trying to assure the fact
that they have some financial security, some job security.
HAYES: They are afraid that they are -- they are afraid if they take
their full vacation, they are somewhere in the back of the boss`s mind or
maybe even on some spreadsheet where it is like, I do not know how good
they are, how committed they are to us.
SEDER: Wally Pipp, right? You are out sick, and then somebody steps
in for you.
HAYES: Wally Pipp, that was the first baseman for the New York
Yankees, who was famously sick for one day when Lou Gehrig replaced him and
then played forever.
HAYES: Do you think that is right?
MONIFA BANDELE, SENIOR CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR MOMSRISING.ORG:
Absolutely. And, I think this is exacerbated for women, you know?
BANDELE: We are in this -- fighting for equal pay. There is still a
glass ceiling. So, if there is kind of this perception that you do not
take your job seriously, you are not leaning in to the point where you are
about to fall over then all of a sudden you may lose the competitive edge
that you have with your male counterparts. And, some people know the $0.77
to $1 between women`s wages and men`s wages. But, it gets higher. It gets
wider when it is a woman of color and especially when it is parents. So,
when you are talking about moms or dads --
HAYES: Yes. If your are mom and it is like they need to go --
sometimes, I have to go to a doctor`s appointment, child care psych. The
way you make up for that is, do not throw like insult to injury, right? On
top of it by daring to take vacation?
BANDELE: Vacation. And, like you said in the beginning, many workers
do not have vacation, do not have paid sick days and so not having these
actual federal policies creates an unspoken policy across the board to
HAYES: That is a great point, actually.
BANDELE: That we do not like this in our country.
HAYES: It creates -- It means that it is not the norm, right?
HAYES: You get this rate in the absence of some sort of mandate from
the law. There is a race to the bottom, right?
HAYES: If the law -- like in countries say, you got to take 20 days -
BANDELE: That is good for everybody.
HAYES: -- then everyone takes 20 days and no one is looking over
their shoulder in the workplace to be like who is the toughest workingest
worker who did not take any time?
SEDER: That is right. And, I also think there is a broader societal
issue of, maybe it is the protestant work ethic on some level. But, you
know, there is definitely a sense that in this country we -- in other
countries they work to live. We live to work on some level.
SEDER: And, I see it infecting -- even when the president came out
with this idea of grading colleges, based upon a return of investment, it
makes money on ascended value.
SEDER: And, the idea of working in ascended value. There is a lot of
things that are valuable about education, and if we devalue those things,
reading a book, learning, being a citizen. Then the idea of actually going
home and spending time with your family or growing out and, I do not know,
playing in the park.
HAYES: Or even thinking socially about that time with family. I mean
it always strikes me as this country that talks about family so much, and
our politics are so about family, like we do not really have a cultural
value of that time with family as time. As a thing that we all are
committed to and want to do, and whether that -- whatever kind of family
you have along the spectrum of, you know, traditional and nontraditional,
BANDELE: It is not valued. And, with this study shows us is that it
is making us less healthy and less productive.
BANDELE: And, so, I think it is counter intuitive for people.
BANDELE: The more you work, the more productive you are, but actually
it is not. And, so that is why we really have to make the shift to the
policies and the federal --
HAYES: Well, OK -- So, there is a quote, and I am not going to
remember who it was. I want to say it is Oliver Wendell Holmes. I am just
going to say that on air then we will fact check it later. But it is a
great quote. It says, "I can do a year`s worth of work in 11 months, but I
cannot do it in 12," right?
So, the idea is that there is actual evidence to support this, right?
Time away from work increases productivity. The 40 hour workweek was born
of not just demands by the labor movement, but a growing body of evidence
among management scientists that actually, there was diminishing returns,
like when you overwork people, they get worse at doing the thing they are
supposed to do.
SEDER: But, even think about the notion of that frame. We are
justifying leisure time by how it could increase our productivity. I think
that is a -- there is something wrong in our society when that becomes the
measure and the value of leisure time and time with family or time to read
or whatever it is.
HAYES: Louis Brandeis. It was Louis Brandeis another Supreme Court
Justice. So, I was close.
BANDELE: And, it is sad, because we use that as a talking point to
push progressive policy.
HAYES: Right. We are saying like -- under the rubric of productivity
and better returns --
BANDELE: That`s right.
HAYES: There is also this -- this was interesting, these are the top
eight answers from the survey, why people do not take time. I thought the
first one was really interesting too, because this has to do with
internalizing that -- like no one says I am -- people do not say fear of
the boss, right?
HAYES: Which is interesting. Fear of losing job is down at the
bottom, 70 percent. Top is, no one else in my company can do the work, and
that gets to something very deep psychological about our identity with our
work. I am talking about a subset of people that are in a situation where
they are getting paid vacation.
We are not talking about whole workers, but among these people -- it
is like coming to see yourself, your own value. Not just the social value.
One`s own personal value, as the value of the work you do as the primary
thing that gives you value.
BANDELE: Yes. And, that has to be deconstructed from the top. I
mean people have to be able to see that their boss. They are boss`s boss.
They are saying that part of the value that I bring to this environment is
that I am healthy whole and happy person.
BANDELE: That I spend time with my family. And, they have to see
them taking off that time, understanding that other people around them can
do the work, can do parts of the work. The place is not going to explode
or burn down. And, then that culture will begin to trickle down throughout
the companies. And, that is what we do not see right now.
SEDER: I also think it is a feedback loop, you know?
HAYES: Yes. That is exactly right.
SEDER: That is where you get your identity from. And, you know, it
is interesting. I once found a futuristic -- an article in a steamer
trunk, I bought at a yard sale once. They have talked about -- a futurist
is talking about the future from 1950s, and he was saying that the hardest
thing for Americans is going to be to learn how to deal with leisure time -
SEDER: -- Because technology is going to make it so that we only work
four days a week.
HAYES: Yes. The Jetsons.
SEDER: Indeed. Ultimately, that cell of technology turned out to be
exactly the opposite.
SEDER: It made everywhere our workplace.
HAYES: Monifa Bandele from momsrising.org and MSNBC Contributor Sam
Seder, I hope you guys get some time off in the next few days, to celebrate
this great country of ours, and spend some time with your family. That is
"All In" for this evening. "The Rachel Maddow" show starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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