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PoliticsNation, Wednesday, July 16th, 2014

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July 16, 2014

Guest: Seema Iyer, Carmen St. George, Tony Pipitone, Elijah Cummings;
David Gletty

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, ed. Quite an eventful
day. And thanks to you for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, enough is enough. One house committee talked about suing
President Obama today. But the real drama was in another hearing where the
GOP scandalmonger in chief finally got called out.

House oversight chairman Darrell Issa, who once called President Obama`s
administration the most corrupt in history, had issued a subpoena to the
President`s political director. And Congressman Elijah Cummings said this
time Issa went too far.


REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: We do not simply haul in one of the
President`s top advisers at will. There must be a valid reason. There
must be a predicate. There must be a justification. Some evidence that
this official engaged in some type of inappropriate activity. That
foundation simply does not exist.


SHARPTON: Congress can`t just subpoena someone for no reason. And
Congressman Issa didn`t give any proof of wrongdoing before he subpoenaed
White House political director David Simas. But Issa said that was no


should not need a smoking gun in order to look into whether or not taxpayer
dollars that are being spent are being spent properly.


SHARPTON: No smoking gun. No evidence. No problem. From Benghazi to the
IRS, to fast and furious, forget the facts. All Congressman Issa cares
about is trying to make a scandal about this President, and he`s tried over
and over again.

In his three years as chairman of the oversight committee, Issa`s issued 99
subpoenas. That`s more than the last three chairs of the same committee
combined. Today, Congressman Cummings said, it`s time to get back to


CUMMINGS: Members of this committee and I say it and I`ll say it until I
die, the members, each one of them, represents 700,000 plus people,
700,000. The members should have the chance to deliberate, especially on
matters as serious as compelling the testimony of a senior Presidential
adviser. It is time for this committee to stop serving as a center stage
for political theater and for fulfilling responsibilities under the
constitution to conduct responsible oversight.


SHARPTON: House Republicans have spent too much time talking about
scandals and lawsuits and impeachment. It`s time someone told them to get
serious. And telling Darrell Issa to knock it off is a good start.

Joining me now, Congressman Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat of the house
oversight committee, and Jonathan Capehart of the "Washington Post." Thank
you both for being here.

CUMMINGS: It is good to be on with you, Reverend Sharpton.


SHARPTON: Congressman, it sounded today like you are really fed up with
how Representative Issa runs the committee.

CUMMINGS: I got very upset because first of all, he was trying to
unilaterally subpoena one of the top advisers to the President. And the
White House had done everything in its power to work with Chairman Issa to
provide him with any information that he wanted. But he wasn`t really
after trying to answer the questions that he claimed it was all about. It
was supposed to be about the hatch act. And whether there was any
violations of that act with regard to the White House`s committee on its
operations, political operations and strategy.

Well, and by the way, Reverend, we had the special council on the panel who
oversee the hatch act. And she would have told him that there were
absolutely no problems with what the President has done. There has been no
wrongdoing, and as a matter of fact, she would have told him they did it by
the books. But you know what? He shut down the hearing before she could
even have one word to say. I think because he really did not want to hear

SHARPTON: Well, let me just raise some facts to you that raises one to
believe what you`re suggesting. Because you know this is all about
politics when the White House said its political director wouldn`t testify,
but they sent staffers to brief the oversight committee on his work.

A Democratic source told roll call, quote, "guess who didn`t even bother to
show up? One guess. Correct, no Issa. The source said staff briefed
Issa`s staff for an hour and 15 minutes, and answered every question, 45 in
all, until they stopped.

So Congressman, if Issa really was interested in what was going on,
wouldn`t he have gone to the briefing?

CUMMINGS: He would -- not only would he have gone to the briefing,
Reverend, but he also would have today allowed the special counsel who is
in charge of the hatch act to testify that there was absolutely no
problems. But again, I mean, he didn`t want to hear that. He didn`t want
the public to hear that. And I think that`s so sad because it goes against
the credibility of our committee. And it goes against the things that we
stand for. And I think it`s just very unfortunate.

SHARPTON: Jonathan, we have watched Chairman Issa seemingly just go after
this President, go after attorney general Holder. I mean, this looks
blatantly political to many of us.

CAPEHART: Yes, it does, because so far a lot of Chairman Issa`s
investigations have come up empty. And when I wrote about this yesterday,
talking to the same democratic source, you know, I paused at the fact maybe
because the Benghazi investigation has been taken away from Chairman Issa
that he`s looking for something else to do.

Look, one of the things you didn`t bring up that Congressman Cummings did
in that committee, in that committee hearing during his testimony, he
played back for Chairman Issa something that she said, something that the
chairman said in 2011. Where he said he would seek the committee`s
council, their guidance, on when to issue subpoenas and that he would talk
to members on his side of the aisle, but also members on the other side of
the aisle to see if whether he was, quote, "nuts" or, quote, "am I wrong in
seeking out a subpoena."

And it was after ranking member Cummings prepared his testimony plus
showing him that video, but before the office of special council got to
testify that Chairman Issa decided to cut the committee hearing short.

SHARPTON: So, I see you shaking your head, Congressman Cummings. He had
made this commitment that he would consult committee members before issuing

CUMMINGS: Yes. And if there was any disagreement, that we would possibly
bring it to a vote. There has not been one single vote on these 99
subpoenas. And in many instances, Reverend, he issues the subpoenas and
then we find out about them in the newspaper.

SHARPTON: How do you explain that, Congressman?

CUMMINGS: I think that unfortunately, Chairman Issa has made a decision
that he wants more attention. When this Benghazi issue was taken away from
our committee, we suddenly saw a huge spike in the number of subpoenas
going out. And I think it`s sad because it just undermines everything that
we`re trying to do.

As I told Chairman Issa today, I said, look, you know, if you want to go
far, you go with other. If you want to go fast, you go by yourself. And
basically what he`s been doing is going by himself.

SHARPTON: Ninety nine 99 subpoenas. I mean, Jonathan, he sounds like
after the Benghazi investigation was taken, he sounds like the sour grapes

CAPEHART: Yes. Yes, and when you look through the series of letters back
and forth, starting in march of this year between Chairman Issa and the
White House to chief of staff Dennis McDonough, then White House council
Katherine Rummler and then her successor, counsel Eggleston. Chairman Issa
is asking for things where there`s no real -- there is no allegation
whatsoever of any wrongdoing, and the White House keeps coming back and
asking for -- here`s what we do, here`s how the office is reconstituted.
Here`s how we`ve done it. Is there something else that you need to know?

When he handed down that subpoena, the White House then said, hey, we will
brief you at a time and location and date of your choosing before today`s
hearing. And they did that, and as you pointed out at the beginning of
this segment, the White House team went up to the hill, was there for 75
minutes, answered every question that was posed to them until the
committee, the folks who were there, exhausted all of their questions, 45
in all.

SHARPTON: And Issa didn`t show.

CAPEHART: And Issa was not there.

SHARPTON: Congressman, with so much of the public viewing the Congress in
a very negative light and really as dysfunctional, does this kind of
behavior beyond the politics, beyond your party and Chairman Issa`s party,
does this continue to tarnish the image of the Congress? And take away
from the respect that your committee should have as the oversight

CUMMINGS: No doubt about it, Reverend. I have said that what I want to
be, we ought to be about is effectiveness and efficiency. But what we`re
getting, Reverend, is we`re getting all kinds of efforts to draw attention
from the things that we ought to be addressing and that`s very, very sad.
And so the things that go to the center of people`s lives, we never get to
those, and we deal with these issues, and there`s nothing wrong with
looking at IRS and Benghazi. But my goodness, there are so many other
issues the American people want us to be addressing, and we need to be
about doing that.

SHARPTON: No. There`s nothing wrong with looking at them, but if there`s
nothing there, there`s something wrong with continuing to dig for things
that are not there.

CUMMINGS: And you can`t be manufacturing the facts. You can`t just
disregard facts that you don`t like. And so it`s just -- it does go
against our credibility, and as I said in the hearing today, it goes
against not only the credibility of the committee but of the Congress.

SHARPTON: Congressman Elijah Cummings, I thank you for coming on tonight.
Jonathan Capehart, always good to have you with us. Thank you both

CAPEHART: Thanks, Rev.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, more from the explosive investigation of a botched
sting operation from the Miami-Dade police.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Four officers surround the unarmed man and
when they say he moved for his waistband, unleashed 52 rounds.



SHARPTON: Four were killed, 52 shots fired, and no charges. But today,
we`re learning they still could be charged.

And what in the world is going on at another Florida police department? A
new report reveals a third person officer was allegedly involved with the
Ku Klux Klan. A former FBI operative who infiltrated the Klan remembers
seeing the officer at a rally. And wait until you hear what he is saying
could happen next.

And should this mom have been arrested for leaving her 9-year-old in a
park? You be the judge ahead.


SHARPTON: We got a huge response to our story last night about two police
officers in Florida with alleged ties to the KKK.

Cartella says each and every case they have been involved with should be
looked into.

I agree, Cartella, and there is an investigation under way.

Rhonda says, they don`t wear white hoods and sheets anymore, nor do they
come out in the dead of the night. They`re right in the broad daylight
wearing business suits, uniforms of all professions.

Beverly says, they won`t go away as long as there are those who raise their
children to hate.

That`s true, Beverly.

We`ll have much more on this story coming up next.

But first, we want to know what you think. Please head over to our
facebook page to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show


SHARPTON: Tonight, the expanding scandal of a Florida police department
and the Ku Klux Klan. Two Fruitland park officers have been ousted after
allegations they secretly belonged to the KKK. Both men have denied it.
But now, a state report implicated a third person from that office, a
former secretary who was married to one of those officers, and her
explanation for why she was in the Klan requires some suspension of


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: This newly released FDLE report shows the Ku
Klux Klan had a deeper hook in the Fruitland park police department than
first thought. FDLE said former Fruitland park police secretary Ann
Honeywell was also a member of the Klan since 2008. The same year her ex-
husband recently outed KKK member George Honeywell, joined the force. He
was fired last week. Ann claimed the couple was working undercover when
they joined the Klan, but admitted she had no paperwork to back that up.
The report also states former deputy chief David Borest had ties to the
Klan going back years when he was a sergeant.


SHARPTON: So this couple joined the KKK as part of a secret mission,
assigned by the former police chief that nobody else knew about? Really?

Five years ago, this same police department was rocked by these photos
showing a different officer, a man named James Elkins, dressed in Klan
robes. And now the question is, who are the other men in these photos?
Should we expect more revelations about this police department and the KKK?
My next guest may have some answers.

David Gletty spent four years infiltrated white supremacist groups for the
FBI. He wrote a book called "Undercover Nazi" about how he proved valuable
intelligence about these groups while working from the inside. And from
those years undercover, he says he met some of the key players in this

David, thanks for being here.

DAVID GLETTY, AUTHOR, UNDERCOVER NAZI: Thank you so much for the
opportunity, Reverend Al.

SHARPTON: Let`s start with former deputy chief David Borest. Where did
you meet him?

GLETTY: I met him along with James Elkins back in 2004, 20005, 2006, and
early 2007 at different Klan rallies and militia rallies. You know,
they`re involved with the militia also. And this was in Ellijay, Georgia,
Conyers Georgia, Lower in South Carolina, Springhill Florida, around in the
Tampa area, Poke County, Lakeland. You know, it`s very prevalent, more
than you would imagine.

SHARPTON: They were at these meetings while they were active officers in

GLETTY: Absolutely. Now, I knew James Elkins was an officer because he
let everyone know. I did not know Mr. Borest was. He always introduced
himself as David, James Elkins` friends, always there with Pamela Elkins,
James` wife, the one that ultimately (INAUDIBLE).

But myself and my undercover partner Joe got this investigation started
back in 2004 and 2005, and as you can see, it has continued for so long.
And you can believe other officers are going to be implicated. And that
story that they were telling us, how they worked undercover, come on.
Something smells fishy up there in Norway.

SHARPTON: I`m going to get back to the fishy Norway part, but James
Elkins, the officer who was outed as a Klan member five years ago, was he a
prominent presence in the white supremacist groups in this area?

GLETTY: Absolutely. In Hillsborough county, and Polk County, and those
areas. Like I said, it was with the Klan, it was with the militia. And
also, you know, he was prevalent with the skinheads and the Nazi movement.
So he was associated with them all, trying to bring more people in. He
wanted to form his own group up there in his area of Fruitland park,

SHARPTON: Now, in that state law enforcement report, the former police
secretary described her KKK initiation ceremony. And stated she and
George, along with two -- along with two other recruits, were summoned to
Elkins` House and escorted to a room. A pillowcase was placed over their
heads. They were led into a living room and told to kneel after a reading.
Their pillowcases were removed from their heads, and the ceremony was
complete. I mean, does that sound familiar to you?

GLETTY: Absolutely. Yes, it does. You know, I have seen all kinds of
different initiations. That one sounds a little out there, but it does go
down like that. And if you`re in that deep, you`re in. You`re in.

SHARPTON: Now, local reporter interviewed a man who was arrested by one of
those officers with the alleged KKK ties. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: This man doesn`t want you to know his name or
see his face, but he is very clear about what he wants to happen after the
man who arrested him earlier this month was accused of being a member of
the Ku Klux Klan. His arrest report written by George Honeywell, and
approved by David Borest, shows Honeywell took extreme measures to stop him
as he pulled him over for driving 37 miles an hour in a 25 mile an hour

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s in the middle of my car as I was going, and then
almost pulled his gun and said I would have shot you if you would have hit
me with your car.


SHARPTON: That man claims the officer talked about shooting him. I mean,
how dangerous is it to have people with these alleged views patrolling our

GLETTY: First off, I would have to say, as of course, not all officers are
involved with this. It`s a small percentage, but I have seen the ugly head
of the beast. I have been with these officers, and I have been with them
at parties where they draw their service revolvers and fire shots at cats.
I have seen in stray dogs. I have seen how crazy they act. I have seen
their alter egos, so to say. And since they`re in a public trust job,
position and a position of authority, it`s a very dangerous mix. Very
dangerous. And it needs to be stopped now. And you can believe there`s a
major investigation going on throughout the state of Florida, because
there`s more agencies involved, not just Fruitland park, Florida.

SHARPTON: So you feel there will be more agencies and more officers
implicated other than Fruitland, Florida?

GLETTY: Absolutely. Take a look at Lakeland, Florida. Take a look at
Melbourne, Florida, Poke County, Florida, Hillsborough, Florida. It`s very
prevalent all over the state, and other states in the union.

SHARPTON: Well, we`ll be taking a look at all of that.

Thank you so much, David Gletty, for your time tonight.

GLETTY: Thank you very much, Reverend Al.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Republicans are hoping Kelly Ayotte can help them
with their lousy PR on women`s health issues. It`s in tonight`s Got You.

And new 911 tapes from an L.A. freeway in the moments before the police
beating was caught on tape. The justice files are ahead.


SHARPTON: Senator Ayotte has a brand new role in the GOP. You know her
best as the scandal sidekick for senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham.
Now, she`s being put out to help fix the GOP`s awful image when it comes to
women`s health. And today, they really need her.

This afternoon, Senate Republicans killed a bill to reverse the Supreme
Court`s Hobby Lobby decision and Democrats pounced.


SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The fight against women making their
own decision about their own health care rages on.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The Supreme Court got Hobby Lobby wrong.
And with their vote today, Senate Republicans got it wrong, too, and women
across the country aren`t going to forget it.


SHARPTON: They won`t forget it. Which is why Republicans sprang into
damage control mode, rolling out a bill to supposedly protect access to
birth control, and they put Kelly Ayotte out front and center to push it.


SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: We will be introducing legislation
that will make very clear that women have the same rights today to access,
contraception as they did before Obamacare was passed and before the Hobby
Lobby decision.


SHARPTON: That sounds a little vague. We took a closer look at what the
bill would actually do, and what the bill will actually do is require
employers to allow women to buy their own birth control.

Wait. What? Women already are allowed to buy their own birth control.
That`s like passing a law allowing folks to buy hotdogs at a ball game.
It`s like letting people pay too much money for overpriced coffee. It`s
like allowing Republicans to introduce totally ridiculous legislation.
They do it all the time.

Did Senator Ayotte think we wouldn`t notice this Republican bill is one
tough pill to swallow? Nice try but we got you.


SHARPTON: It`s time now for the Justice Files. The big criminal justice
stories making headlines today.

Joining me now, former prosecutor Seema Iyer, and criminal defense Attorney
Carmen St. George. Thank you both for being here.



SHARPTON: We start in Los Angeles where we`re learning more about the
moments leading up to this police beating caught on camera.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Oh, (bleep). He`s beating her up.



SHARPTON: In the moments leading up to this incident, at least nine
motorists called 911 to report seeing Marlene Pinnock walking on the
freeway, acting strangely. Some tried to help her.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: There`s a woman walking on the freeway, going into the
freeway, just walking barefooted. I was going to get next to her, but I
guess she got scared of me, and I was going to ask her something but then
she walked faster.


SHARPTON: Other drivers reported that she seemed mentally impaired.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There`s an African-American lady walking with her hands
up. I don`t know if she`s drunk or high, but she`s going into the freeway.

911 DISPATCHER: 911 emergency, what are you reporting?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: There`s a lady walking on the freeway. She has on
pink, a pink dress. Sleeveless. Black socks on. I would say she`s


SHARPTON: The police officer caught on camera continues to work for the
California highway patrol on administrative duty. Seema, the 911 calls
indicate Marlene Pinnock was clearly impaired. How will they affect the
investigation, how will they factor into it?

IYER: Well, they`ll corroborate her mental illness and Rev, I have a case
exactly like this, a young man walking on the freeway backwards, against
traffic, barefoot, and yes, he was found to be mentally ill. So that
corroborates her illness, but it also goes to the reasonableness of the
officer`s actions, which of course, the police department is going to

SHARPTON: Carmen, do you think this will factor in a way that helps or
harms the policeman?

GEORGE: I think it would harm the policeman because I think we`re getting
a long enough clip to be able to see that there`s a number of blows. The
woman is down on the ground. She`s selfless, defenseless. She`s putting
her arms up above her head. She`s clearly not flailing her arms or kicking
and resisting, so I think the officer is going to have a hard time coming
out from under on this one.

IYER: But Carmen and I, we have both seen this in court where mentally ill
people have almost superhuman strength. So you may see a woman as tiny as
Carmen is being held down by nine, ten corrections officers or court
officers because, Rev, that is what happens when you are mentally ill. So
maybe we missed that part.

SHARPTON: Seriously, nine or ten people?

IYER: Yes, Rev, all the time. I see this all the time.

SHARPTON: You have a videotape here, it doesn`t look as though she was
doing anything but getting hit.

GEORGE: And that`s why she`s, you know, considering filing an action.
You`ve got, you know, a federal action, 1983 case, you`ve got a tort action
in state court that can go forward on this because they`re going to lock
into the officer`s background, but more importantly, the training in this
particular department is going to come to be very important. When was the
last time that he received training? What in fact did they teach him? You
know, I`m hoping at the end of this, it doesn`t matter what race he was or
what race she is, because I think that I would feel the same way if the was
an elderly Caucasian woman on the ground, either way, you have to look at
the acts.

IYER: Right.

SHARPTON: Absolutely, either way, you must look at the acts. Well, we
know the officer is still being paid. He`s on desk duty, and we`re going
to continue following this story closely as it develops.

Now to South Carolina, where a woman has been arrested for sending her
nine-year-old daughter to a park. Forty-six-year-old Debra Harrell was
charged with unlawful conduct toward a child earlier this month.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A woman confesses to repeatedly abandoning her nine-
year-old at the park.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Witnesses say she left her nine-year-old daughter at a
park for hours at a time and did it more than once.


SHARPTON: Now, Harrell used to bring her daughter to her job at McDonald`s
every day where the girl would sit and play on her laptop. But after her
computer was stolen, the girl asked if she could go to the park instead of
sitting at the fast food restaurant all day long. Harrell agreed, gave her
daughter her cell phone to call in case of an emergency. And her daughter
is aware where her parents dropped. She said she was dropped off. The mom
was arrested and her daughter was taken by the South Carolina Social
Services and put into custody. Seema, should this mother have been

IYER: Absolutely not. Rev, this is just another instrument that
conservative lawmakers would like to put on single mothers. First, they
shouldn`t be on welfare, they shouldn`t be selling drugs, they shouldn`t be
committing crimes. So now you have a single mother who is doing the right
things, who`s working at McDonald`s, doing the best she can for that child.
Not everybody can afford a nanny or even day care, Rev. Not everybody has
a relative to take care of that child. That child was not abandoned. She
was in a park with a bathroom facility, with access to food, activities
during the day, and this woman did nothing wrong but try to survive.

SHARPTON: Carmen, do you agree or disagree with Seema?

GEORGE: I`m going to give you the different perspective on this, as coming
from the perspective of a child advocate here, let`s think about this.
This is a nine-year-old that`s left alone without food, without drink.
Susceptible to kidnappers, susceptible to people who would abuse her. We
can`t rely on the other people at the park to protect this child. And this
was not a one-time act. This was behavior over three days. I mean, I`m a
parent. I would never in a million years leave my child anywhere out of my
sight, we have been covering this all week with the Harris case, about
leaving their kid in a car.

This is a woman who went to have a full work day, and I understand the
conflicts of parenting. In fact, single parents, it`s very difficult. I
also understand the societal problem of financially not being able to
afford any other outcome, but it`s problematic to me to believe that you
can rely on strangers to protect your child.

IYER: But this kid was nine years old. OK, this was not a baby. And Rev,
back when you and I were young, we could walk around and go to the park
when we were nine. I think this is just overreaching big time.

SHARPTON: Well, this is a tough one. Very tough one. And we`re going to
continue to watch it. Seema Iyer and Carmen St. Georges, thank you both
for your time tonight.

GEORGE: Thank you.

IYER: Thanks.

SHARPTON: Coming up, a disturbing poll from Mississippi about how the old
confederacy, what it says about the politics and division of today.

Also, new questions about that botched police sting that left four people
dead. Could the police possibly still face charges? And could a watch
that somehow vanished provide a clue in this case? Stay with us.


SHARPTON: We`re back with more on that disturbing story out of Florida.
Police shootings and a sting gone horribly wrong. The team six
investigators at NBC`s Miami Station obtained this exclusive infrared
police video from 2011, showing police officers shooting and killing four
men, one of them their own informant.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Miami-Dade County has never seen anything like it. As
infrared cameras roll from aircraft, police kill four men, including their
informant, in this botched sting operation in the Redland.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I got these subjects running west. Running west, into
the trees.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Thirty seconds later, and we warn you again, you`re
about to see something quite violent, the third home invader darts in front
of the house holding a gun and is shot down by a sergeant. His gun later
found where he fell. That left only Betancourt, the informant, at the
corner with 70 seconds to live. Instead of handcuffing him, Sergeant
Manuel Malgor says he told him to roll over on his back. That`s when he
said the surrendering informant made a quick move to a gun in his
waistband. Cops fired 23 shots. Four officers surrounded the unarmed man,
and when they say he moved for his waistband, unleashed 52 rounds.




SHARPTON: They fired 52 rounds at one of the suspects and 23 shots at
their own informant. Officers said the men were armed and they were in
fear for their lives. And while prosecutors say the first shooting was
clearly justified, they`re questioning whether the police really heard and
saw what they said they did in the other three shootings. Citing, quote,
"unusual counter intuitive suspicious and disturbing factors." There were
no witnesses to corroborate or dispute their story. And now team six has
learned a key piece of evidence has gone missing.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Wouldn`t informant Rosendo Betancourt scream out the
code phrase that identified him as the informant? He used it three times
earlier. But when his life was on the line, police claim he was silent,
then suddenly reached for a gun in his waistband, forcing them to open
fire. A surrendering informant going for a gun? While Betancourt cannot
speak from the grave, an audio recorder hidden in a watch police gave him
might have, but somehow from the time you see this watch here until after
he`s killed, it disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That would have been a critical piece of evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What do you think it would have said?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I would imagine that he would have been making the
statements that he was instructed to make if there was a problem, and to
identify himself as a CI.


SHARPTON: A watch that could have revealed the final moments of the
informant`s life gone? Prosecutors doubt the officers` account, but they
say their hands are tied and they don`t have the evidence to file criminal
charges. So now those prosecutors and the Miami-Dade mayor are calling for
state authorities to take over police shootings investigations going

Joining us now once again is Tony Pipitone, investigative reporter for NBC6
who broke this story. Tony, a watch that disappeared sounds suspicious. I
mean, what do authorities say can be done?

suspicious, but they also say it`s not evidence of a crime. When an
officer has a well founded belief that he is in fear for his life or that
someone else`s life is in danger, he can shoot to kill. And that`s what
they did out there and the prosecutors say, you know, we may have
questions, we do have questions about those unusual counterintuitive
factors, but without evidence to contradict what the officers say, they say
there`s nothing they can do to bring charges.

SHARPTON: Tony, prosecutors are questioning what police officers say they
saw in the moments before the shooting. Let me play this clip.

PIPITONE: That officer behind the tree with Gonzalez`s back to him, said
in his statement, Gonzalez made a quick move into his wais waistband,
forcing them to open fire. They shot 52 rounds. But prosecutors question
whether that officer was even in a position to see what he says he saw.
Still, Gonzalez is not alive to say otherwise.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We`ve got no evidence to counter that.


SHARPTON: Tony, is there a way for prosecutors to question these officers?

PIPITONE: Here`s the issue. If the officers are under criminal
investigation, they have a right to remain silent, just like anyone else
would. You don`t have to talk to police about something that might
incriminate yourself. So they don`t have a right to talk to them until --
as long as this case is still under investigation. Some of the officers
did give voluntary statements, though, and that`s where we were able to
hear their contention that the people went for their waistband. They
feared there was a weapon, and therefore, they opened fire.

SHARPTON: Yes. Let me follow that up because there is an internal
investigation. Eleven officers were at the shooting scene. Four of those
officers gave voluntary statements, as you referred to, and they gave it to
a union lawyer, and Miami-Dade police investigators, but no prosecutors
were allowed to be present. The other seven officers pled the fifth. Now,
would a new investigation help clear up any of these questions?

PIPITONE: Well, there is the professional standards or the professional
compliance bureau investigation that is under way right now. And at that
point, the officers do have to talk to their internal investigators about
what happened. If a criminal investigation were to come from some other
prosecutorial authority, I don`t know whether those statements would even
be admissible in that arena. So it`s two separate issues, the internal
waits for the criminal to get done, once the criminal was done, the
internal picks back up again, and then a determination is made about
whether or not they violated policy, but the decision about whether they
violated law has already been made by the state attorney`s office.

SHARPTON: But this case, the reason I think so many people responded when
we did it last night and when you broke it there in Miami, is it speaks to
the larger issue of police shootings and police killings. I believe over
the last 15 years, 600 or almost 600, 574 to be exact, in Florida. No
policemen charged. It speaks to the larger issue of police and their being
held accountable for things as serious as murders.

PIPITONE: Well, I can tell you that when a court decision came down in
1989 saying that juries could not hear that officers violated policy, that
made a big difference prosecutors tell me. Look at this case. When the
informant is surrendering and he`s on his belly and he`s crawling to the
officers, an officer tells him to flip over. So you may ask, why didn`t
the officer just tell him to put his hands behind his back so he could cuff
him? Isn`t that policy? Well, that could not get in front of a jury as
evidence of guilt in Florida. It`s irrelevant. It`s prejudicial, and if
the jury would never hear it, so you can`t even raise those questions in a
case like this in Florida.

SHARPTON: I mean, it is unbelievable, and given the amount of cases and in
this particular case, the amount of bullets, this is absolutely
unbelievable. We`re going to stay on top of this. Great work, Tony
Pipitone. Investigative reporter for NBC6. Thank you so much for your
time. And the great work for your team as well in this important story.

PIPITONE: Exactly. Thank you very much.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, a new poll that shows how many Republicans in
Mississippi still support the confederacy. The results might surprise you.

But first, Hillary Clinton goes on the daily show and takes a little test.
That`s next.


SHARPTON: Hillary Clinton paid a visit to "The Daily Show" last night, and
Jon Stewart gave her a little test.


JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": I have like a career aptitude test.

I`m ready.

STEWART: Let me ask you a question. Do you like commuting to work or do
you like a home office?


CLINTON: No, I have spent so many years commuting, I kind of prefer a home

STEWART: All right.

CLINTON: That`s where I wrote my book. It was on the third floor of our
house. So that worked.


STEWART: Do you have a favorite shape for that home office? Do you like
that office -- let`s say, would you like that office -- would you like to
have corners or would you like it not to have corners, I don`t know?

CLINTON: You know, I think that the world is so complicated, the fewer
corners that you can have, the better.


STEWART: Do you prefer to sit in traffic or cause it?


So it sounds to me like if, I may, you have declared for president.

CLINTON: Who knows, Jon? But fewer corners could be coming to an ad near



SHARPTON: Finally tonight, southern discomfort. A new poll shows 37
percent of Republicans who voted in the Mississippi primary run-off would
back the confederate side if there was another civil war. Thirty seven
percent. Mississippi Tea Partier Chris McDaniel who today is still
refusing to concede his loss to Thad Cochran, just last year, he addressed
a conference hosted by neo-confederate group that promotes secession and
last year, we saw confederate flags at the gates of the White House during
a protest that included Senator Ted Cruz. Since President Obama was first
elected, we have seen a growing trend of anti-government hate and heard
threats of secession. Some in the right-wing media helped push it.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I`m not for secession, but I understand why
people might be.

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: In the end, if you`re going to jam all
this stuff down our throats, yes, I guess maybe it would be about
secession. For some people, they would probably say, yes, I think it`s
maybe time to get out of this.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This was a reasonable woman. She`s
talking about secession. Civil war. She`s not alone, folks. This is not
the rantings of extreme kookism anymore.


SHARPTON: Thirty seven percent of Mississippi republican voters would go
back to the confederate side. Maybe that`s what makes compromise so hard
these days. Thirty seven is a big number. But so is 63. The 63 percent
of those voters who don`t agree with going back. So let`s start with those
folks and focus on getting something done for the country and for people
who are hurting.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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