updated 7/24/2014 9:42:54 AM ET 2014-07-24T13:42:54

THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
July 23, 2014

Guest: Michael Kiefer, Sherrilyn Ifill


LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: I`m so glad you borrowed moment of
Zen from Jon Stewart since I --

MADDOW: Stolen.

O`DONNELL: -- also recently borrowed best new thing in the world from
you. So --

MADDOW: It`s called sharing at this point.

O`DONNELL: It`s called sharing. Yes, some people call it that.

Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence. I appreciate it.

Tonight, we have shocking new video of another violent NYPD arrest,
and we will hear from the man who captured the video of last week`s
chokehold arrest that ended the life of Eric Garner.

But first, the action on Capitol Hill today was about the crisis on
our southern border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House Republicans unveiled their plan this
morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A three-pronged attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something of an outline.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Send troops, send back refugees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know of any I would not return.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are very, very vulnerable to gang
recruitment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And send nothing to the floor of Congress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring them a bipartisan bill from the Senate for a
vote in the House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really don`t know what the Senate proposal is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boehner would not commit to bringing any border
legislation up for a vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boehner is continuing to be Boehner.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: They want us to throw
more money at the problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States is the world`s
sugar daddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Putting the onus on the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Promised them all sorts of free goodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Days are passing and everyone is talking in D.C.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, it`s still in the talking stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does Boehner continue to get away with this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing is going to get done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can pass immigration reform in two minutes.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: We simply won`t have the vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should stay here until we get this job done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight days, that`s all they got left before they
go on vacation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O`DONNELL: OK. This is why it`s hard for House Speaker John Boehner
to get House Republicans to agree to anything like the president`s
emergency request for funds to handle the crisis at the southern border.
Republicans like this are members of the working group on the emergency
funding plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MO BROOKS (R), ALABAMA: This president has promised them all
sorts of free goodies, like free food, free clothing, free health care,
free transportation, free entertainment. And until that stops, you cannot
anticipate that people around the world won`t try to break into America,
because America is going to be their sugar daddy. And right now, the
president of the United States is the world`s sugar daddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Today, John Boehner announced that the group, that group
that that guy is a member of, recommended offering President Obama less
than half of the emergency funding that he requested two weeks ago. The
process will ultimately -- the funds will be used to deport thousands of
children who are in the process of being handled by the border patrol down
on the southern border of the United States, for having entered the United
States illegally.

House Republicans are considering $1.5 billion, which is less, of
course, than the $2.7 billion considered by the Senate and both are less
than the $3.7 billion that President Obama says he needs. The potential
House deal focuses on speeding deportations and sending troops to the
border, something the president is willing to consider.

But Republicans also want to change the law signed by President Bush
that makes it difficult to deport children from Central America. Democrats
want to handle that separately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: What the president is asking for is a blank check. He wants
us to throw more money at the problem without doing anything to solve the
problem. This discussion by our members is going to continue, but we have
not made any decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Speaker Boehner refused to commit to voting on the
emergency funding bill before Congress goes into August recess. Some of
the members of that study group working on the bill have historically not
been very forward thinking when talking about immigrants. Alabama
Republican Mo Brooks told the town hall last month that, quote, "I will do
anything short of shooting them." I suppose that would mean torturing
them.

And today, he had this idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: The whole issue can be resolved for roughly $20 to $30
million. It costs about $300 per ticket one way, commercial air. That
tallies up to $27 million total. Anyone in the United States can get on
the Internet, look at Travelocity, look at cheapflights.com, you can find
tickets to the capitals of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaragua.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Congressman Steve King of Iowa has suggested that
immigrant children could be drug mules, because they have, quote, his
words, "calves the size of cantaloupes." Today, he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Fifty-seven thousand unaccompanied alien
children, 80 percent male, 83 percent 15, 16, or 17-year-olds. These are
prime candidates for gang recruitment or members of gangs. This is the
most dangerous demographic you can select out of any civilization being
brought into the United States and repatriated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The most conservative member of the group -- yes, there is
a most conservative member of the group -- Congressman Salmon of Arizona,
has said he will not compromise on deportations. Today, he gave the
president this ultimatum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT SALMON (R), ARIZONA: If the president rejects that, if he`s
more interested in politics than solving the problem, then the American
people need to know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining me now is MSNBC.com editor in chief, Richard Wolf,
attorney and NBC News contributor Raul Reyes.

Richard, the cast of characters that the speaker has working on this
subject for him to try to come up with, you know, the comprehensive
solution to what`s going on there is pretty -- I mean, it couldn`t be more
ridiculous that these people are involved in this process.

RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC.COM EDITOR IN CHIEF: Not many compassionate
conservatives anymore, are there?

I think they`re caught in a trap of their own making, which is to say
what do you do when a president you loathe, and by reflex you reject
everything he stands for, what do you do when you agree with him, when he`s
actually trying to deal with a problem you also want to deal with?

And so, they come up with these contortions and notions that you`ve
got to think they must know are plainly ridiculous. I mean, how can you
say they are prime examples of people who are going to gangs when you know
at some level that they`re escaping gang recruitment in their own
countries? It beggars belief, but it is possible, of course, they`ve been
driven mad by a president they loathe.

O`DONNELL: Raul, your reaction to hearing --

RAUL REYES, ATTORNEY: Well, we see some of these clips -- these clips
of the Republicans, some of these quotes look, you know, they do seem
ridiculous. But you have to remember what ultimately happens to these
kids, it could be absolutely traumatic and heartbreaking. The only thing
that Steve King got right is these children are the prime age for gang
recruitment. That`s why they`re here.

One thing I believe that`s being left out of this debate is that we
hear so much about this misinformation campaign supposedly going on
throughout Central America by the traffickers telling the kids that they
can come up here and stay with a permiso and so on, there`s misinformation
going on up here, and that is the idea that`s conflating this border crisis
with immigration reform, with fear of immigrants and this ugly rhetoric
we`ve heard, you know, that they`re carrying diseases, that they`re gang
members.

You know, part of it you want to just laugh if the stakes were not so
high. That is what is so tragic about it.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to something else that Congressman Brooks
said today about returning these people and the question of would he return
them all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Would you return all of them?

BROOKS: I don`t know of any I would not return. There might be some,
but I don`t know of any.

Now, if in fact some are, for example, are being trafficked for
slavery or sex purposes, that`s a different issue. But I don`t know of any
information that says that this 60,000 to 90,000 illegal alien children
mass that has come to America are coming here to be sex slaves or something
of that nature.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Now, Richard, one of the positions that these Republicans
are holding is that they want to repeal the law that President Bush signed,
which is about protecting children from sex trafficking. So, they are --
they want to be on record as not wanting to protect children from this kind
of sex trafficking.

WOLFFE: Right. But, also, let`s just remember the phrase that he
repeated three times in one sound bite, I don`t know.

O`DONNELL: Yes.

WOLFFE: So, he`s pronouncing on policy and declaring the status of
tens of thousands of children by saying, I don`t know. But I`m still going
to hold the position any way. Look, we think this is extreme. This debate
is going to get even more extreme, because there is no deal to be done.
The president is going to turn around and make some executive orders that
will drive this caucus, this block of this caucus even more off the edge of
the extreme edge of Republican politics. And they`ve only got one place to
go at that point, and that`s impeachment.

So, this debate will get more intense. There`s no rational argument
that you can have with that kind of politics.

O`DONNELL: But, Raul, normally, the picture we`re seeing here is one
where there could be a deal to be done. A president says let`s do $3.7
billion. The Senate says let`s do $2.7 billion. The House says $1.7
billion, and actually, it`s not that far apart, because they`re talking
about spending the money much faster in the House. So, actually their
spending rate is similar to President Obama`s suggestion.

That`s the kind of stuff that used to produce a deal between those two
end points of those numbers.

REYES: Yes. Unfortunately, Mr. O`Donnell, the key word is
"normally." These are house Republicans who are so entrenched with these
far right positions on immigration.

I agree with you, that they are backing themselves into a corner.
What I think they`re going to do ultimately is that they`re going to do the
same thing they did with the broader immigration reform debate. They`re
going to raise a lot of objections, throw a wrench into constructive
proposals and in the end, do nothing, because their whole plan is that I
think that`s a tactical decision to let this problem fester, because the
longer this goes on, the longer they can put it on President Obama.

And what it`s doing -- the other effect it`s doing that`s been
destructive, this could be the time when the president was making his case
for executive action and laying out why he needed to do something for the
undocumented population already here. Instead, we`re caught up in this
debate, which is already been decided with the 2008 law by Congress, which
in fact also a reauthorization I believe twice of a law going back to 2002,
the Homeland Security Act.

O`DONNELL: And, Richard, when you hear John Boehner say today he`s
not going to do anything about this before the August recess, what he`s
saying is, this emergency situation will be dealt with by the Republicans
after they take a month off, when they come back in September, they will
begin -- he says we haven`t made any decisions about the policies are.

So, they are very -- their response to an emergency is to openly wait
months and months and months.

WOLFFE: Right. Number one, they`re not going to do any deal while
running for re-election. Number two, they also know this crisis has
started to recede, because the flow of children has slowed down. And
number three, he can`t keep a lid on his own caucus anymore. This is ut f
his control.

All this idea that John Boehner that, you know, he`s suing the
president just to stop impeachment, it`s already out of his hands and it
will continue to be so.

O`DONNELL: What do you expect to see in the next few months, Raul, on
the border?

REYES: I think we might see an ebbing of the flow of children
partially because the summer months traditionally, there`s a decline in
illegal immigration anyway, because that`s the worst time to come up here,
like August.

O`DONNELL: It`s the toughest possible trek.

REYES: That`s the most difficult time.

So, I think we will see some ebbing of that. I`m not sure if we`re
going to necessarily see that this crisis is over. You have to remember,
this is a long journey. There`s a lot of kids already on their way.

O`DONNELL: Right.

REYES: And I think once -- in August, the president will probably
take executive action on immigration that he will heat up this whole
debate, and I think at this point, Republicans are starting to feel that
it`s in their interest to keep this going. Like a scab that they continue
to pick at and hope to make more and more negative headlines for the
president.

O`DONNELL: Richard Wolffe and Raul Reyes, thank you both very much
for joining me tonight.

REYES: Thank you so much.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, a secret and not very effective drug cocktail
was used to execute a man in Arizona tonight, and it took nearly two hours
for him to die. One of the eyewitnesses to tonight`s execution will join
me next.

And later, a new video of another violent arrest by the NYPD.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: The FAA extended the ban on U.S. airlines frying into Tel
Aviv`s Ben Gurion Airport for another 24 hours. A rocket landed yesterday
within a mile of that airport. This morning, former New York City Mayor
Michael Bloomberg arrived at Ben Gurion Airport on an El-Al flight from New
York to prove, as he said, that it was still safe to land there.

Up next, in Arizona tonight, a death row execution took so long that
the attorneys had time to file a new application for a stay before the
prisoner stopped breathing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: In Arizona today, Joseph R. Wood, who was convicted of the
1989 murders of his ex-girlfriend and her father, was executed using a
secret two-drug cocktail. An hour after his execution began, lawyers for
Wood filed an emergency request for a stay of that execution, saying that
Mr. Wood was still alive and had been gasping and snorting. Witnesses say
nearly two hours after the execution began, Mr. Wood was dead.

This is how reporters that witnessed it described, including Michael
Kiefer from the "Arizona Republic", who will join me presently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL KIEFER, EXECUTION WITNESS: Usually takes about 10 minutes,
the person goes to sleep. This was not that.

TROY HAYDEN, EXECUTION WITNESS: It was very disturbing to watch. You
know, Joe Wood is dead, but it took him two hours to die, and to watch a
man lay there for an hour and 40 minutes gulping area.

MAURICIO MARIN, EXECUTION WITNESS: It was an excruciating sort of
experience.

I counted about 660 times that he sort of gasped.

HAYDEN: I can`t imagine this is what the justice system hoped for
when they came up with this new drug. At a certain point, you wondered if
he was ever going to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: But the family of the victims who also witnessed that
execution saw it differently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANNE BROWN, DAUGHTER AND SISTER OF VICTIMS: Everybody from what I
heard said it was excruciating. You don`t know what excruciating is. What
excruciating is seeing your dad lying there in a pool of blood, seeing your
sister lying there in a pool of blood. That`s excruciating.

This man deserved it. I still have to live the rest of my life
without my sister and father.

RICHARD BROWN, VICTIMS` FAMILY MEMBER: How would you guys feel if it
was one of your family members? I saw the life go out of my sister-in-
law`s eyes right in front of me as he shot her to death. To me, it looked
like he was sleeping, he was snoring. That`s what I saw. And then he
passed away. So, how is that suffering?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Governor Jan Brewer ordered a review of the execution by
the Arizona Department of Correction. And tonight, a federal court ordered
the state of Arizona to preserve the body of Joseph Wood for examination.
Draw six blood samples and to take tissue samples from Mr. Wood`s brain,
liver, and the muscles, by 8:00 p.m. local time, which is about 40 minutes
from now.

According to Mr. Wood`s attorney, the medical examiner`s office has
said they won`t be able to comply with that order.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DALE BAISH, JOSEPH R. WOOD`S ATTORNEY: We`re getting word that the
medical examiner says he doesn`t have time to get it done, and he`s not
going to comply with the court order. So, that`s something that we`ll be
working on as the night goes on. The Arizona Supreme Court issued an order
that the labels of the drugs be preserved, as well as any residual drug
that exists. So, there`s a lot of work to do. There`s evidence there, and
we need to collect it now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining me now is Michael Kiefer, a court and legal
reporter for "The Arizona Republic", who witnessed tonight`s execution. It
is the fifth execution he has seen.

Mr. Kiefer, tell us what you saw tonight and how it differed from your
previous experience in witnessing these things.

KIEFER: Well, apparently what happens in an execution by lethal
injection is the person just goes to sleep and there`s not a whole lot to
see. This started out the same way. Mr. Wood, within three or four
minutes drifted off, eyes closed. The doctor came in and looked and said,
yes, he is sedated.

A few minutes after that, he started gasping. Several people
described it as looking like a fish out of water. It was sort of a spasm
that would go from his mouth to his chest to his stomach. And we watched
this and it went on for more than an hour and a half. And every now and
then, the doctor would come in and check on the level of consciousness of
Wood, and he would turn the microphone on and at that point we could hear
this sucking noise. I mean, it was a snoring, it was a very, very loud
sucking noise. I mean, essentially what we watched, I think, was death by
apnea.

O`DONNELL: When you say turn the microphone on, that means the
microphone wasn`t on for most of the time?

KIEFER: The microphone was not. The microphone was on when they were
inserting the lines, which is shown to you on video. Then it`s on when he
said his last words, then it was turned off. So the doctor would come in.

This is abnormal. Normally in the protocol, the doctor comes in and
checks and says that the patient is sedated. And then the person dies
within a few minutes, you know, 9, 10, 11 minutes. I was in one that
lasted maybe 28 minutes, but there was no motion, the person was completely
still.

In this case, he just started this constant, you know, very strange
motion with his mouth and with his chest and as I said, when the microphone
would go on, you could hear it was quite loud.

O`DONNELL: If the point is to have witnesses at these events so that
you can see exactly what happens, it would seem to me that the audio
component of what is happening is a significant part of that.

KIEFER: You would think, but we`ve had problems. I mean, the secrecy
issue has been ongoing here in Arizona. Back in 2010, I discovered that
Arizona was purchasing its death penalty drugs from overseas illegally,
bypassing the DEA and the FDA.

They maintain secrecy. You know, they have laws protecting the
executioners, and they extend that to the people who make the drugs, the
people who import the drugs. That has been going on in this particular
case.

It`s been going on with pretty much every execution. But in this
case, the defense attorneys were trying to find out where the Midazolam and
hydromorphone came from, the drugs that were used in this cocktail. They
went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court who said yesterday they didn`t
have to turn it over. The 9th Circuit had issued a stay, saying, you know,
you can execute this man if you give this information about where the drugs
come from and what the medical qualifications are of the people who are
administering them.

They refused. They took it to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court
said no, you don`t have to say anything. The stay was lifted.

Then today, they filed another claim with the superior court in Pima
County saying this is an experimental drug. The superior court judge sort
of deferred to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court, before noon, said,
well, no, the stay is lifted. So the execution went forward, and there we
were.

O`DONNELL: Michael, what do you make of this conflict between the
federal court and the medical examiner saying, I don`t think we can comply
with this order?

KIEFER: Well, that was news to me. But that may well just be a
question of logistics. But definitely an investigation has to be done, and
it proves the point of the defense attorneys saying that this is obviously
not a viable drug.

We were concerned before this happened, because there was an instance
in Ohio where it took 20 minutes. So this -- they`re going to have to
think hard about whether or not this drug is ever used for lethal injection
again.

O`DONNELL: Michael Kiefer, it`s a grim duty you have, bearing witness
to these events. And we appreciate you joining us tonight and helping us
understand it. Thank you very much.

KIEFER: Thanks very much.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, we have new video of another violent arrest
here in New York city, as the investigation into the arrest and death of
Eric Garner continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: In the spotlight tonight, police use of deadly force,
specifically the chokehold. Last week`s victim of a police chokehold in
New York City was remembered by friends and family tonight at his funeral,
at Bethel Baptist Church in Brooklyn. Forty-three-year-old Eric Garner was
pronounced dead on arrival, at a Staten Island Hospital on Thursday, after
being approached by police and arrested for suspicion of selling loose
cigarettes in his hands.

In the video you`re about to see, officer Daniel Pantaleo uses a choke
hold on Eric Garner, a maneuver that has been banned by the NYPD for over
20 years. Prosecutors are study this video, along with other evidence, to
determine whether to bring charges in the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m tired of it. Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me!
I can`t breathe! I can`t breathe! I can`t breathe!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: You just heard Eric Garner`s last recorded words, "I can`t
breathe."

The NYPD is conducting its own internal investigation of this arrest
and hence, stripped officer Pantaleo of his badge and the gun. Before
emergency medical workers, who responded to the scene, have also been
suspended without pay.

The NYPD is also conducting another internal investigation of a
violent arrest incident that was caught on video on a recent Monday
afternoon in Harlem.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

O`DONNELL: Because that police officer has not yet been formally
identified, the network decided we should blur his face there. New York
City police commissioner Bill Bratton may have had that incident and many,
many others in mind yesterday when he said this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BRATTON, NYPD POLICE COMMISSIONER: The department really does
need to do a lot more, a lot more in the area of training. A top to bottom
review of all the training that this department provides to its personnel,
specifically focusing on initially use of force. I would anticipate that
coming out of this effort that there will be a retraining of every member
of the New York City police department in the weeks, months and potentially
years ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining me now Sherrilyn Ifill, the president and director
of the NAACP legal defense fund and Jim Cavanaugh, an MSNBC law enforcement
analyst. He is also a former police officer and an ATF special agent.

I want us all to look --- listen to tape of Ramsey Orta (ph), the man
who videoed that chokehold that ended in death, a very important interview
he had on this network with Tamron Hall . Let`s listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMSEY ORTA (ph), FILMED THE CHOKEHOLD INCIDENT: As soon as they came
out the car, I knew it something because Eric was harassed by the same
officers plenty of times. He`s been harassed by the same officer just for
standing in the same area and they`re just going off his past. And they
know to jump out on him, so I decided to pulled out my camera and recorded
it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Sherrilyn, we know that these kinds of things happen
around the country, and particularly in New York all the time. There isn`t
a camera all the time. But since we saw that video of Rodney King 20 years
ago, more than that, this has changed these kinds of police incidents into
something where you can actually prove a complaint against police in these
situations.

SHERRILYN IFILL, PRESIDENT/ DIRECTOR, NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: And
yet still be the convictions and the indictments are at an abysmally low
level. And I think that what has so many New Yorkers distress and concern.
We`ve seen this so many times before. And the question now is what`s going
to happen in this case? No question, the videotape is critically
important.

But, you know, Lawrence, it`s not just about the chokehold. It tells
us so much more. And we have to wonder about the relationship between this
police officer and Mr. Garner and what you just heard the man who took the
video saying about the many times that they have interacted. The number of
times that this officer had apparently harassed Mr. Garner, that`s what
he`s talking about. He`s talking about being over policed this that video.

We`re talking about loose cigarettes, what is that about? I mean, is
that a beat in Staten Island? You know, looking for people selling lose
cigarettes. I think a lot of New Yorkers would be surprised considering
the problems we have in the city to hear that four police officers are
deployed to one block in Staten Island to arrest someone who is selling
loose cigarettes.

There`s so many questions that arise out of what we see out of this
videotape and the context that we see. And I`m so glad that we have it.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to more of what Ramsey Orta had to say.
Tamron asked him about did they know you were videoing what was going on
there? Let`s listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMRON HALL, MSNBC HOST, NEWSNATION: Did the officers, the emergency
workers know you were close enough and take thing?

ORTA: Yes. They kept telling me to move back.

HALL: Did they ever try to get you to put down the camera?

ORTA: Yes.

HALL: What did say they to you?

ORTA: They told me that it`s a crime and special investigation and
for me to get off the scene. If not, I was going to be arrested.

HALL: Did they try to take your camera at any point?

ORTA: No.

HALL: So you had the camera still rolling. They told you to move
away from the scene, but from the video, it appears you stayed right near
there.

ORTA: Yes. I actually lied and told them I lived there, so that`s
why they let me stayed around the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Jim Cavanaugh, police officers telling witnesses like this
that they have no right to be there, they`ve got to get away. This is a
device that cops use all the kinds of situations, when they know what they
are doing videotaped.

JIM CAVANAUGH, MSNBC LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right. The police
can`t stop you to videotaping anything with your phone or camera. You have
the right as a citizen to videotape anything you want. You just can`t
interfere with the police. You can`t, you know, going cross their line,
for example, or try to run in the middle of it or try to interact with
somebody they`re interacting with, you know, physically.

I saw Tamron`s interview with this young man today, and it was very
sad, because he`s very sad, because he`s a friend of Mr. Garner. And he
was very honest about it. And I thought maybe they should have listened to
him, you know. Maybe they should listen to him and take the handcuffs off
of Mr. Garner so he could get some medical care.

Like we said last night on your show, Lawrence, I think a lack of
leadership here, sergeant training stepping in, defusing this situation.
You know, a good sergeant, the New York`s got a lot of them, would step in
on a case like this and say everybody back off. Mr. Garner, what`s going
on?

And as Sherrilyn said, you know, he`s over policed, and that`s what he
is reacting to. He`s constantly being policed for selling a cigarette.
And the sergeant, the real sergeant, a good sergeant would say, Mr. Garner,
here`s my card, you call me at the precinct tomorrow at 2:00. We`ll talk
about it. We`re all leaving now.

Because that`s what the commissioner would want to happen. That`s
what every good logical citizen, that`s what a top leader would want to
happen. In the very worst case, he could have got a citation.

But if you were sergeant, if I was the sergeant, if Bratton was the
sergeant there, I think it would be defused, you know. And that`s the way
you want to get the police to think. Think about defusing it, calming it
down. No crime has occurred to have a man have a mixed martial art choke
put on him. I think the United States attorney should move on this.

O`DONNELL: The United States attorney with jurisdiction, Sherrilyn
has said they are looking at this.

IFILL: I think they have to. I think, because of the record that I
talked about of the many instances which these investigations go nowhere,
and because there`s so many police officers involved in this incident who
all seem to be reacting in the same way. This does not look abhorrent in
this video. And that has to raise real concern.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to -- Ramsey Orta is at his friend`s funeral
tonight. He was going to try to be with us here tonight, but he can`t.
But, really, he covered all very well earlier today and I just want to hear
more from him about what the other witnesses were seeing and doing while
this was going on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ORTA: Everybody just screaming, said take the cuffs off him, put
oxygen mask on his face, do some type of CPR. Everybody was concerned with
his breathing.

HALL: Would you hear him say those words now that have been chanted
at the rallies for him, "I can`t breathe?"

ORTA: Yes.

HALL: You heard him.

ORTA: Yes.

HALL: Did you believe his life was in danger at that point?

ORTA: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And Sherrilyn, he believed his life was in danger. Every
other witness seemed to believed that. And yet, as we know, there`s a
police report where officers are reported as having said there was no
evidence of him being in distress while he was dying.

IFILL: Lawrence, this is about culture, this is not just about
training. This is about whether when you see this man you value his life
as a human being. It`s not just the police officers, it`s the EMT workers.
Nobody is looking at this as a human being who needs help and they are all
public servants.

And I think for Commissioner Bratton, that`s going to be the issue he
has to deal with, not just the training, but the culture of policing in
this city and the way in which Mr. Garner are viewed by police officers.

That`s the tragedy. It is not only the loss of Mr. Garner`s life, but
seeing all these public servants who are charged with helping. You`re
supposed to call the police when you`re in trouble. You are supposed to
call EMT when you need medical attention. And they all stand there as
though Mr. Garner is not a person. I think New Yorkers are just
traumatized. And that neighborhood certainly is traumatized by witnessing
this event.

O`DONNELL: Sherrilyn Ifill and Jim Cavanaugh, thank you both very
much for joining me tonight.

IFILL: Thank you.

CAVANAUGH: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, the Democrats don`t just have a good shot at
winning a Senate seat in Georgia. Their candidate, Michelle Nun, whose
father held that seat for 24 years for the Democrats, is actually the
front-runner tonight, just like her father used to be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: And now for the good news.

Michael Shafts works two jobs, and last Wednesday night, he went to
his part-time job at the Gingerman restaurant in Albany, New York. He
ended his shift that night as the recipient of a $1,000 tip. A man
celebrating his 47th birthday at the restaurant with his wife left $1,000
on top of the $113.89 dinner check. He wrote on the check, pay it forward.
My birthday present to me.

Michael Shafts did not believe it at first. He told the Albany Times
Union, quote "I shook his hand, I hugged him twice and I said it was too
much twice. He insisted twice that he wanted to do it. That it was
legitimate."

Michael Shafts didn`t forget to pay it forward. He gave half of that
tip to the rest of the staff at the restaurant. The other half went to
fixing his car.

The rewrite is next, and it`s about a politician who so desperately
misses the limelight and what she might have to do to get it back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: In the rewrite tonight, Michele Bachmann. She really,
really misses running for president. She misses everything about it.
Well, she can`t really miss everything about running for president, because
she didn`t experience everything about running for president, like for
example, winning. She didn`t win the presidency, she didn`t win the
Republican nomination. And of 2286 delegates at stake, Michele Bachmann
won exactly one. She dropped out of the race after the first votes were
counted in the Iowa caucus. But she got a solid year of running for
president before that, if you include the many months of fevered media
speculation about whether she would run for president.

And that`s the part she`s missing right now. She told "Real Clear
Politics" yesterday, the only thing that the media has speculated on is
there`s going to be various men running. They haven`t speculated, for
instance, that I am going to run. What if I decide to run? And there`s a
chance I could run.

Would someone please speculate that Michele Bachmann might run for
president? So far the only person in the media speculating about that is
Michele Bachmann in Scott Conroy`s (ph) "Real Clear Politics" article
entitled Bachmann`s says, she might seek presidency in 2016.

Like with anything else, practice makes perfect, Congresswoman
Bachmann told "Real Clear Politics." And I think if a person has gone
through the process, for instance, I had gone through 15 presidential
debates. It`s easy to see a person`s improvement going through that.
Well, it might not be as easy as Michele Bachmann thinks. You be the
judge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Make no mistake about it. I
want to announce tonight, President Obama is a one-term president.

(APPLAUSE)

I believe that its inherent in the constitution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the national constitution.

BACHMANN: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So to say it`s inherent sounds like there`s not a
particular provision you can point to.

BACHMANN: Well, I`m sure you could enlighten me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I wanted to know what our vision was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congresswoman, a question about energy, back to
that subject for a moment. Were you quoted correctly and do you stand by
as one to drill in the everglades of Florida.

BACHMANN: Well, the question was asked of me about that. And what I
said is that we have American energy resources all across this nation. And
of course we would do it responsibly.

What I would do as president of the United States is pass the mother
of all repeal bills on education. I would take the entire federal
education law, repeal it.

And one thing I would say is when you take the 999 plan and you turn
it upside down, I think the devil`s in the details.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

BACHMANN: We have to legalize American energy.

We need to remember, we won the peace in Iraq.

I think it`s outrageous to continue to say over and over through the
debates that I don`t have my facts right, when as a matter of fact I do.
I`m a serious candidate for president of the United States, and my facts
are accurate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: The last democratic senator to win a re-election campaign
in Georgia was Sam Nunn, who was re-elected three times and became one of
the Senate`s most powerful and respected chairman. Sam Nunn could probably
have continued getting reelected if he decided to continue to keep running,
continued to get reelected to this day. He`s only 75 years old now, but in
1996, Democrats seemed consigned to the long run of the minority in the
Senate and Sam Nunn decided not to run for reelection.

This year, Republican Saxby Chambliss decided not to run for
reelection, opening the way for the possibility of another Senator Nunn
from Georgia, this time Sam Nun`s daughter Michelle Nunn is continuing the
family crusade to hold that Senate seat and she now knows who her
Republican opponent will be in November.

Last night, businessman David Perdue defeated Congressman Jack
Kingston in Republican senate primary runoff. Michelle Nunn, who easily
won her primary in May, is now six points ahead of David Perdue in a
landmark communications poll.

Joining me now is MSNBC political analyst Karen Finney.

Karen, it is hard to believe, but a Democrat is rising in the south,
in the deep south in a Senate campaign, and it really seems like it helps
an awful lot to have Sam Nunn`s last name there.

KAREN FINNEY, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. I mean, the name
recognition, although Perdue also has name recognition in the state. But
there is a couple of things, Lawrence, that I think make a big difference.

The key thing is the African-American vote. One of the things we`ve
seen in the state is that the percent of eligible voters, white voters has
decreased, African-American voters has increased. And this is a state
where the DSTC is actually spending money to register and hopefully turn
out the African-American voters.

So in addition to the name, which will help with moderate white
voters, which Barack Obama did not do well with in 2012, if you also then,
if she can turn out a good percentage of African-American voters, that`s
why Democrats are actually cautiously optimistic about this day.

O`DONNELL: The Democratic Senate campaign committee has a new ad out
in this race. Let`s take a look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David, your golden parachute was $42 million over
two years. Not bad work if you can get it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When pillow tax went under, you got millions
while thousands host their jobs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have done well for yourself. But you live in
a gated community inside a gated community and have a gate at your house.
How are you going to work with John Q. Public when they come up to you and
ask questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Karen, fascinating to see all those Georgia Republicans
running, Georgia Republican Newt Gingrich`s play against Mitt Romney,
against this guy, because he`s made a lot of money in business.

FINNEY: And that`s why you`ve got to love, when you are someone who
doesn`t have a tough primary and your potential opponent has a tough
primary to get through, because they are going to blood each other up. And
in this case, this message, this narrative about Perdue as someone who is
out of touch, he is a businessman, there`s issues about him, you know,
shipping jobs overseas and doesn`t support pay equity. So some has already
entrenched so that the DSTC were just reminding voters that`s part of his
message. So, that actually could help Michelle Nunn in this race.

O`DONNELL: And Michelle Nunn is running kind of a centrist campaign,
very similar to Sam Nunn. I remember in the Senate, working the Senate,
there were times when important Democratic Party votes were coming up and
we knew from the start we were never going to get Sam Nunn on it because
that wasn`t the way to get reelected in Georgia. And so, you know, we`re
quite understanding of watching him sit over this and not vote with the
Democrats. I would imagine Michelle Nunn would find herself in similar
situations where she doesn`t want to be locked on to the Democratic Party
position.

FINNEY: That`s right. And she`s been able, I think, to navigate that
pretty elegantly and that is going to be, I think -- the other thing that
you have seen is she is has been able to pick up support from both sides of
the aisle. So the fact that she has got Republicans support, remember, she
worked for the points of light foundation. I actually found an email from
2012 from the points of life foundation that was from her. So yes, I mean,
she`s been able to Garner support on both sides. That`s part of that
legacy from her father.

The last thing I`ll mention, though, Lawrence, again, going back to
African-American voters which I think can really be the key in this race is
you have five women running for state-wide offices. And that also could
help with African-American turnout. And again, if she could get the
moderate white voters and a good turnout with African-American voters, this
could be a turn around. I`m not going to say the state is going to totally
blue, but it could be a good sign for Democrats in terms of the senate.

O`DONNELL: It`s just a fascinating development to watch.

Karen Finney, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

FINNEY: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.

END

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