updated 8/14/2014 9:04:05 AM ET 2014-08-14T13:04:05

POLITICS NATION
August 13, 2014

Guest: Wesley Lowery; Charlie Dooley; Cedric Alexander, Jamaal Simmons,
Dana Milbank, Joe Madison, Margie Omero

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR, POLITICS NATION: Four days after the
shooting of an unarmed teenager, there`s growing pressure from the
community and his family for answers.

Late today the Ferguson police department called an unscheduled press
conference. But they still decline to answer the question that so many are
asking, about releasing the name of the officer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Can you explain why are you not releasing the
officer`s name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Explain that --

CHEF TOM JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: For two reasons. One, for
the safety factor. We weighed the value of releasing the name right now
against the safety factor to both him, his family and his neighborhood.
Now, Mr. McCullough`s -- the prosecuting attorney`s stance, is they don`t
release names of anybody until they are formally charged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: It`s a new reason they are not providing the officer`s name, a
reversal from an earlier promise that they would release it. It comes on
the heels of a Washington Post report that the police investigation is
quote, "moving slowly." And that three days after the incident detectives
still had not talked with many critical witnesses.

And details that are emerging are opening more questions. Today police
said the officer who shot Michael Brown was injured in the alleged
altercation. That he was hit in the side of his face and treated at a
hospital. But again, we still don`t know who that officer is, what his
name is or what his account is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: We understand the anger. We understand that people want answers.
And we understand that we`ve got a problem. But we`re just asking people
to be peaceful and that we are actively working to resolve this situation
to get the truth and to get justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The police say that they`re actively working on this. But four
days after the shooting, there`s a lot we don`t know.

Joining me now is Charlie Dooley, St. Louis County`s executive, and the
"Washington Post" Wesley Lowery. Thank you both for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Executive Dooley, what`s your response to residents upset that
they are not getting answers fast enough?

CHARLIE DOOLEY, ST. LOUIS COUNTY EXECUTIVE: Well, I agree with them. Too
many unanswered questions in this event. A young African-American lost
their life and the community deserves answers. There`s no question about
it. It is not about defending about the police department. It is about
having a transparent process that people can believe in. And that`s where
St. Louis county asked for the FBI and department of justice to intervene
and to oversee this process.

SHARPTON: Now, the bringing in the federal government to run a parallel
investigation, is not like them taking over the entire investigation. And
one of the things that I`ve heard, as you know I was in St. Louis, and
requesting the family and I`m looking at this purely as moving toward how
you deal with an investigation and not cause more damage in terms of
violence. But I`m hearing over and over again a lot of distrust from local
residents, including witnesses that they don`t trust the local authorities.
They don`t trust the state investigation. They are afraid of retribution
if they talk to local law enforcement.

Isn`t it in the best interest of everyone for the appearances of it being
an investigation, no matter what it leads to, if the federal government did
the investigation totally.

DOOLEY: I agree with you. That`s one of the reason we asked for the FBI
and department of justice to come into this process. Because we are too
close to it right now. And there are mistrusts. There are a lot of
unanswered questions. And in order to have an open process, that people
can believe in, they need to have a third party envision.

SHARPTON: Wes Lowery, you`ve been down there covering this and dealing
with this. Have you not heard a lot of the skepticism and a distrust, I
think, you were on last night with me in St. Louis when an elected official
says, I may trust them, but the people just ask too many questions.

WESLEY LOWERY, WASHINGTON POST: There`s no trust whatsoever here. I was
talking it a protester about an hour ago. And he looked at me and said, if
you can find one person in this community who trust the Ferguson police or
county government, the county police officers, that`s like finding a four
leaf clover.

There`s no trust in the community. There is a deep distrust. In fact,
there are stories or word on street is that people had their phones taken
by police who might have seen what happened or might have video or might
have had photos. And so, there is a ton of distrust and different issues.

SHARPTON: People who have their phones taken and may have had photos on
this issue and Michael Brown?

LOWERY: On Michael Brown. That is the, again, the word on the street
here. And whether it`s true or not, this is why it matters. It does
matter whether it is true. But even if isn`t true, there is anecdote of
what the distrust is here, is that so easily, people are willing to believe
something like that, that police officers were going into homes and taking
phones. Which I`ve had throw or four or five people here on the streets
tell me.

And again, as you know, Reverend, it stems from a number of issues, whether
it be a lack of representation in the police force, lack of captains of
color in the police force and disparities in the number of people who are
being pulled over and having interaction with the police force. A
protesters said to me earlier today, every single black person in this
community has experienced DWB, driving while black. It is another great
anecdote of how people feel here in Ferguson.

SHARPTON: County executive Dooley, how do you respond to that?

DOOLEY: Well, first of all, as an African-American myself, every American
male in this country have had that incident, driving while black. So that
is nothing new to all of us. We recognize that. But to say the vast
majority of African-Americans don`t trust the police department in this
community, that can`t be substantiated.

But the individuals that are on the streets, there are mistrust with the
young people. There is no question about it. When the individual is
alleged to be killed in broad daylight and unarmed, that makes for un-trust
in the community. It`s no question about that.

Should people be angry? Yes. But I would suggest to you that the family
says, let`s be calm, let`s let justice prevail, and let`s not take revenge.
And looting your own community is not inducive (ph) to a productive action.

SHARPTON: No. I think all of us agree that is counterproductive. But in
terms of the trust, Mr. Dooley, I think that, you know, when you hear for
example, that you had a -- let me put this to you. There was a St. Louis
county police lieutenant, fired just last year in a case involving race,
one internal note to him read, quote, "you were heard by at least nine
officers on multiple occasions directing enforcement actions on persons
with black, tan or colored skin without any reference to probable cause."

Now, this happened. This is not something that was just created. It is
happening. But yet, just there Washington week, you said, you being Mr.
Dooley, concerns about the police force were quote, "unfounded." But isn`t
this a cause for concern, when have you an office fired for using racial
directions with no probable cause?

DOOLEY: Of course it is reason for concern. I`m not going to debate that
fact. But what I am saying is that one person`s action does not
necessarily represent the whole of the department. Have there been
mistakes made in of course there have. Is there frustration out there? Of
course there are. There are unanswered questions, yes, they are. Have
people been mistreated? Yes.

But by the vast majority of those individuals, that is not necessarily
speaks for the whole department.

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you and I don`t know, again, I don`t think that
everyone is saying everyone cop, everybody in the department, but clearly
mistrust is it there`s enough for people to have mistrust. And as I think,
you are saying, Wes, that whether some of it is exaggerated or untrue, it
doesn`t matter. It catches the life of his own. I`ve gotten as much bad
information as good out there. But the reality is, it has attention.

But I want to get your reaction from both of you. Listen to both of the
two witnesses who tell very similar stories about what they saw. Watch
this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORIAN JOHNSON, WITNESS: My friend Big Mike ran past me. He sees me in
plain sight. He looks at me and say, keep running, Bro.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw a police chased after the guy (INAUDIBLE). He
was unarmed. He ran for his life.

JOHNSON: Shot -- struck my friend in the back. He didn`t stop what he was
going. He stop to turn around with his hands in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They shot him and he fell. He put his arms up to let
them know he was compliant and that he was unarmed.

JOHNSON: Started to tell the officer that he was unarmed. And he was not
-- and before he would get his last words out, the officer then fired
several more shots and my friend went down in the fetal position.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They shot him twice more and he fell to the ground
and died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I mean, they are both broadly telling similar stories as far as
we can ascertain. Don`t know each other. Weren`t talking at the same
time. Yet, they tell very similar stories. Your reaction it that, Wes?

LOWERY: And that is a story that`s permeated Ferguson. I mean, as we`ve
seen in all of the protests and all of the rallies at the church where we
were last night, hands up, don`t shoot is the chant that is really come to
define Ferguson and define what this incident has been. In part because it
catches on. It speaks to the soul of any African male. You know what that
means. Hands up, don`t shoot.

That`s the story that witnesses have told. That`s a story that people I
have talked to on the streets here who said they saw things or heard from
people who saw things. That`s the story we have heard and the people have
not provided any narrative to push back on that. That is not to say that
might not end up being true. It might not end up being what they say
happened.

But the police have provided so little information. I talked to the police
chief about this earlier today and because he removed himself from the
investigation, he had no answers for me. But what he said was, he
understands the frustration. There has been no information. We still
don`t even know why that police officer was interacting with these two
young men at all. Was he pulled over, was he talking to them, was he
attempting to make an arrest, was he charging them with a crime? We have
no official narrative from the police department here.

SHARPTON: And doesn`t that fit in to, Mr. Dooley, no narrative and you
have a young man, clearly unarmed, that is dead and no one saying anything
and these witnesses telling stories that give parallel scenarios.

DOOLEY: I agree, Reverend. That`s the troubling part about it. You have
these statements being made. And the police department itself, is not
giving enough information to counter that. I have no reason not to believe
that young people are not telling the truth. Because we all recognize the
individual, Michael Brown, was unarmed. Why was he shot multiple times?
It is very troubling. And I agree, that is the frustration. And the
police department has not come forward to give enough information or facts
about what actually happened.

And so again, the community itself is saying, there are too many African-
Americans, not just in St. Louis county, but in this nation, as being
killed without explanation, without foundation, and it needs to stop.

SHARPTON: Well, that, I think all of us agree. And I think most
Americans, if not all, would overwhelming majority would agree.

St. Louis county executive Charlie Dooley and Wesley Lowery, thank you
both for your time tonight.

LOWERY: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, another unarmed man shot dead by police, this time in
Los Angeles. That`s four unarmed African-Americans killed this summer.
Will the justice department create a commission to deal with this growing
problem?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The shooting of Michael Brown has sparked a new debate about
images in the media. And is also fueling a new trend on-line.

Here are two very different images of Michael that will surfaced on TV
after the shooting. Prompting twitter users to post their own photos with
the hashtag, if they gunned me down.

The tweets show contrasting images. Young men and women wearing military
uniforms next to them wearing hoodies, drinking, mugging for the camera.
With the question, if they gunned me down, which photo would they show?

These twitter users making a powerful critique of how black victims are
portrayed in the media. We`ve seen this before. It was a huge issue in
the Trayvon Martin case. And we saw it again in the Jordan Davis shooting.
So speak out and make your voice heard on the issue. Important issue it is
by going to our face book page and tweet and tweeting us at
"politicsnation."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The headlines this summer have been painful to read. One story
after another about police force used against unarmed African-Americans.

Right now, the country is watching Ferguson Missouri where 18-year-old
Michael Brown was shot by a police officer in broad daylight. In July, a
California highway patrolman beat a woman who was walking along the
freeway. That woman, Marlene Pennick, is now speaking out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARLENE PENNICK, BEATEN BY POLICE OFFICER: He tried to kill me and I want
him fired. I was scared for my life because he wouldn`t stop beating me.
I didn`t know when he was going to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: On July 17th, a New York city police officer used an illegal
choke hold on Eric Garner. His death was ruled a homicide. Last week,
Ohio police shot and killed a man named John Crawford in a Walmart. They
said he was waving a rifle in the air. But it turned out to be a BB gun.
His family thinks he picked it up right in the store from one of the store
shelves. And today, there are new questions about a police shooting this
week in Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) is shaken and heart broken --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart is so heavy, because my family is close.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And her husband (INAUDIBLE) is in disbelief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All we want to know is just why you do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And LAPD officer, they say, shot and killed
their mentally challenged son, 25-year-old, Ezel Ford Junior (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They laid him out and for whatever reason, they shot
him in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Knowing that he is --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knowing he is mentally has complications.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: But you don`t find this problem just in L.A. or in Ferguson,
Missouri. It`s a national issue. And the justice department wants
solutions.

"USA Today" report quote, "the justice department is leading a broad review
of police tactics, including the kind of deadly force that prompted recent
protest in Missouri and New York. The review is being conducted as the
department weighs creating a national commission to provide new direction
on such controversial issues."

Things need to change. We need to work together to build trust between
police and their communities. And to make sure all-Americans receive equal
justice.

Joining me now, is Dr. Cedric Alexander. He is the president of national
law enforcement executives and chief of police for DeKalb county, Georgia.

Dr. Alexander, first of all, thank you for being here.

DR. CEDRIC ALEXANDER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES:
Thank you for inviting me here today as well too, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you. How can we work to prevent these kind of
incidents?

ALEXANDER: Well, I think we have to remember this, and you`ve said it so
many times, and I`ve said it so many times a day as well too, historically,
police departments and those of color have had strain relationships for
years. Even though we have seen much improved relationships in many parts
of the country, there are still some areas as well, too. And there are
still some moments in time in history where it appears as if we are still
somewhat dated in our interactions.

It is very clear to me, and evident to me of course of what is going on in
Ferguson is that there was absolutely very little police and community
positive relationships that were going on at any point in time in their
history. I mean, that is quite evident that this community came to a
tipping point very, very quickly.

And with the fact that you have a lot of questions that are still yet to be
answered, I think we`re in a place particularly in that activity at this
day and time and at this very moment that we need to address these issues
and we see him beginning to emerge across the country in a very frequent
rate and we all have to do something.

Here at Noble, we are monitoring each and every one of these situations,
not to cast any blame but to make sure that there is a fair and balance and
appropriate investigation that occurs in each one of these cases because
justice must be served for all of those that are involved.

SHARPTON: Now, we have also seen some really striking images come out of
Ferguson of police and military style riot gear and armored vehicles. I
mean, this has been a growing trend over the last few years.

In 1990, local and state police departments have only $1 million worth of
military equipment. By 2013, it was $450 million worth. Does this press
presence on the street make it harder to build trust with the communities?
?

ALEXANDER: It certainly makes it hard to built trust, particularly when
you are talking about communities that don`t trust the police department
and the police department doesn`t trust the community.

But what you will find, Reverend Sharpton, in communities that have a
strong relationship with the police department and with their communities,
it is much easier to navigate and have conversations around any issue that
may come up.

Of course you`re going to always have riot gear and protective wear that is
going to be appropriate for certain types of events or things that may
occur in a community. However, when there is no relationship whatsoever,
regardless of what the police department and you are seeing this, it is
playing itself out every day, right there in Missouri, when there`s no
relationship between those two entities, what you`re going to find is just
a continued reality or perception, whatever word you choose to use, of
discontent and distrust.

SHARPTON: You also have representation given a perception or reality. You
talking about Ferguson. Looking at the demographics, police force and this
town. And a town of 67 percent black. But out of 53 officers in the
police department, only three are black. Does this create a problem,
Doctor?

ALEXANDER: Absolutely it does, particularly in this day and time.
Virtually, wherever you go in this country today in any city, business or
industry, we all are very sensitive of the fact of diversity. We make sure
that we have those that represent every part of the community. But of
course that`s not evident as we can see here in Ferguson.

So that`s going to be one of the issues that they are going to have to
address as they move forward to try to establish the relationship in an
environment in which they can begin to trust each other as well, too.

SHARPTON: Yes. All right, Dr. Cedric Alexander, thank you so much for
your time tonight.

ALEXANDER: Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the GOP`s master plan is back firing. Turns out
voters aren`t thrilled with all this talk about lawsuits and impeachment.

Also, why are President Obama and Hillary Clinton, quote, "hugging it out?"
And why is the right so fired up about it? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Hugging it out Hillary Clinton reaches out to President Obama
about her criticisms of his foreign policy. Tonight, they`ll come face-to-
face at a party. Where does she plan and what does she plan to do? That`s
next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Big news tonight. We`re getting word from Martha`s Vineyard
that we`re awaiting a hug. President Obama and former Secretary of State
Hillary Clinton will come face-to-face at a birthday party tonight. For
the first time since she made critical comments about his actions in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: You going to hug it out with the president?

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Absolutely. Yes. We`re
looking forward to it. Going to be there tonight. Me and the book. We
agreed, we are committed to the values and the interests of the security of
our country together. We have disagreements as any partners and friends as
we might very well have. But I`m proud that I serve with him and for him
and I`m looking forward to seeing him tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: That is hardly breaking news that they disagreed on certain
issues. They spent an entire campaign criticizing each other`s ideas. But
in the end, they got over their differences and went from adversaries to
allies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Senator Obama`s remarks are elitist and they are out of touch.

I don`t think I`m that bad.

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: You`re likable enough, Hillary.

CLINTON: Thank you.

We need to help elect Barack Obama our president.

OBAMA: I`m proud that she will be our next secretary of state.

CLINTON: Despite our hard-fought primary, we had such agreement on what
needed to be done for our country.

OBAMA: We made for tough debates, by the way.

CLINTON: We did.

OBAMA: We could never figure out what we were differed on.

CLINTON: Yes, we worked that pretty hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The president and Mrs. Clinton have always worked through their
differences. And I`m sure they`ll do so again. But it`s fascinating how
some of the rights have tried to gem this up into a feud of epic
proportions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Hillary Clinton wants to divorce herself
from Barack Obama.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Here comes Hillary back stabbing
Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: -- Handle an enemy from his own party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Back stabbing, an enemy from his own party? I think this is a
bunch of wishful thinking from some folks who have plenty of word about the
GOP in 2016.

Joining me now are Jamaal Simmons and Dana Milbank. Thank you both for
being here this evening.

DANA MILBANK, THE WASHINGTON POST: Hi, Reverend.

JAMAAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be with you.

SHARPTON: Jamaal, the right wants to make this into a Battle Royale. Is
it?

SIMMONS: Oh, I don`t think it is. I mean, look, the reality is, senator,
secretary, first lady, Clinton, whatever title you want to put on her,
cannot really be separated from Barack Obama just like she can`t believe
she separated from Bill Clinton. And I think the one thing she has to do
is stay focused on the future, his vision of the future. And of course she
will going to have some differences with Barack Obama. That`s just sort of
the nature of the game. But I think sort of like George H.W. Bush back in,
you know, 1988, she got to find a way to be focused on what her version of
the future is going to be and not look to be Al Gore in 2000 and try to
separate herself from the previous president.

SHARPTON: Dana, you`ve been writing about this. What`s your take on this?

MILBANK: Well, I think you need to keep this in a little bit of
perspective, Reverend. So, if we are looking at the overall field of
foreign policy views here, you`ve got in one end zone Dick Cheney who says,
you know, make war on anybody for any reason at all times. And then in the
other extreme, is also in the Republican Party right now, that`s Rand Paul,
who says, no international engagement under any circumstances against
anybody. And then I think the battle that is between Clinton and Obama
here is sort of between the 40-yard lines.

And certainly, Hillary Clinton has been more hawkish and I think she was
taking out some ground here. What it indicates is that she`s feeling very
confident about her primary prospects and getting a challenge of not
getting a serious challenge, and is looking ahead to the general election.
I think that`s why you see Karl Rove trying to drive that wedge. Because
she`s reacting with confidence, here.

SHARPTON: Now Jamaal, let`s get real. A lot of people feel this was
calculated. A lot of people feel that she was measuring how far she could
distance herself from the president and run back and hug. Was this
calculated? Is this the old alleged Clinton kind of having it both ways,
moving, whether it be true or not? That was the reputation that was built
up in some circles about the Clintons?

SIMMONS: Now, I think the only people who know that are the people who are
in the room. I don`t feel like this was really something that calculated.
I think she was trying to get a perspective out in the Atlantic. I think
among a lot of foreign policy people, there are some questions about the
presidents don`t do stupid stuff statement. And there`s a lot of debate
about that, among the foreign policy elite. So the entire Atlantic article
was a little bit more thoughtful. But I was watching that video you showed
of those scenes in the primary and it was taking me back to -- some of it
was fun and some of was not so fun.

SHARPTON: Yes. The day that you had more hair and Dana had less beard.
But let me ask you, Dana, I mean, your take on this, you`ve watched and
covered this a while. I mean, after all, she didn`t have to do the
Atlantic monthly article.

MILBANK: No.

SHARPTON: She didn`t have to talk to her right wing writer like Goldberg.
I mean, she`s not at all not aware that just doing the interview, which she
didn`t have to do as a former secretary of state, she could just say, I`m
not questioning anything. I`m leaving it to my successor, just doing it
raises questions of was this calculating.

MILBANK: I think so. Like when I first saw the interview, I said, ha ha,
there is classic Clinton triangulation, trying to, you know, find some
middle ground between the Bush years and the Obama years. But then the way
she walked that back, it makes one wonder, maybe she wasn`t being so
calculating after all and in fact, she sort of stepped in it and sort of
made put too fine a point on something that was consistent with what she
said before but hadn`t said it as sharply. But it appears to have worked
out well for her. Because in that clip you saw, she has excellent product
placement for her book and is generating more attention to her book tour.

SIMMONS: Rev, let`s be clear about something for a second. Which is it is
not in her interest to separate herself from President Obama.

SHARPTON: Right.

SIMMONS: He is very popular with the democratic base.

SHARPTON: Right.

SIMMONS: So whatever may be existing in poll numbers nationally, that`s
not true among core democratic voters. And she needs those voters to turn
out.

SHARPTON: Are they planning a 2016 general election strategy. And even
there, if there isn`t a turn out, that`s a big problem.

SIMMONS: Absolutely. You still need them.

SHARPTON: Now, Dana, Paul Waldman at Washington Post, points out that Mrs.
Clinton`s comments weren`t so shocking. He writes if people didn`t have
such short memories, they wouldn`t be so surprise by it. Hillary Clinton
has always been a liberal or social and economic issue. But much more of a
moderate or even a conservative when it comes to foreign policy. So why
are people shocked? Shocked that she has a different view on some issues,
Dana?

MILBANK: Yes. And she outlined it in great detail in her book which she
is promoting. I think probably if she hadn`t had the one line about don`t
do stupid stuff, not being an organizing principle, I think if she hadn`t
said that, probably nobody would be having this conversation here. It
looks probably, given the way she walked it back, that she did say it more
sharply than she intended to in the first place.

SHARPTON: But that line that Dana just quoted was sharply responded to by
David Axelrod, my colleague, Jamaal, which also kind of fueled this whole
perception of a fight.

SIMMONS: Absolutely. And that too kind of took you back to the old days
of people sparring back and forth. But I think that -- I think if
anything, Axelrod probably thought, you know what, just in case, let me
just fire a shot back across the bow so they understand where the lines are
here. And let`s keep this fight focused on the republicans and not focus
on each other.

SHARPTON: All right. I`m going to have to leave it there. I wish you
guys were in the same studio. I`d have you hug just to show us --

MILBANK: I would if I were there, Rev.

SHARPTON: Jamaal Simmons and Dana Milbank, thank you for your time this
evening.

MILBANK: Thank you.

SIMMONS: Good night.

SHARPTON: Coming up. Back firing, wait until you see the affect of all
that lawsuit and impeachment talk.

And the ice bucket challenge for charity is sweeping the nation. Who
challenged President Obama? You`ll want to see this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: It`s back firing. A new poll shows all the talk of lawsuits and
impeachment is motivating democrats more than republicans. On impeachment.
Sixty percent of conservatives say impeachment would make them more likely
to vote republican. But this is key, 74 percent of liberals say more it
would motivate them more to vote democrat. When it comes to Speaker
Boehner`s bogus lawsuit against the president, 63 percent of conservatives
said motivates them more to vote republican but 72 percent of liberals say
it motivates them to vote democrat.

So liberals are nine percent more motivating. But this is the big one.
Look at this. One in five conservatives say both issues would make them
more likely to back a democrat in 2014. I guess Americans don`t have the
same appetite for red meat than GOP has been serving up their Tea Party
base.

Joining me now is XM radio host Joe Madison. And democratic strategist
Margie Omero. Thank you both for being here.

MARGIE OMERO, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good evening, Reverend.

JOE MADISON, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Thank you, Reverend Sharpton.

SHARPTON: Joe, why is that backfiring for republicans?

MADISON: Well, I think because they simply fail to realize that as your
last guest said how popular President Obama is in the Democratic Party.
Now national polls are different thing. But when it comes to the
democratic base and the fact that I think people are just absolutely tired
of they have used everything from birtherism to his religion to you know,
some doctor saying that Michelle Obama was fat and didn`t like America.
They`re tired of it.

And then here`s the other problem. Of all the things we have to deal with
in the next two years, and a president who`s not going to run for any
elective office probably ever again in his life, why would you waste the
last two years of his presidency in the next two years wasting money and
time impeaching. That`s I think is why you seeing this and the fact that
the radical reformist that Republican Party did too much talking. Loose
lips sink ships. They started talking about it. And that`s what it caused
this problem within the Republican Party.

SHARPTON: Margie, you know, it is one thing to try and motivate your base.
But this is hurting republicans among swing voters too when it comes to
moderates. The lawsuit against President Obama makes them more likely to
vote democratic in 2014 than republican. Fifty to 25 percent, as twice as
many, the numbers are similar when it comes to impeachment. Forty nine
percent say they would vote democrat versus 27 percent who said they would
vote republican. Margie, how might the democrats use this data?

OMERO: Well, I think it really points to Republican Party that
consistently is going against with the people want. This is just another
example. I don`t see how they have a short term gain here as those numbers
show. And I don`t see a long term gain here either. Because Republicans
are consistently less popular as a party than democrats and the long-term
real damage is that you have a loss of faith and confidence in all of our
institutions.

That goes -- it transcends party lines, goes across the board, across
America. And that`s the real damage here that all of these things, whether
its impeachment or the lawsuit, the shut down, the debt ceiling showdowns,
the vacation criticism, all of that really shows that you have a lot of
people in Washington who are just there to play politics and not really to
get hard work done.

SHARPTON: You know, now republican Joe, a republican congressman is saying
impeachment talk is a democratic conspiracy. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICK MULVANEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Believe me. Let`s make one thing
perfectly clear. That the only people who want impeachment more than the
right wing of the Republican Party is the entire Democrat Party. They are
desperate for impeachment. They would love to be able to talk about
impeachment and immigration between now and the November elections instead
of talking about jobs and the economy and health care. They are desperate
to change the dialogue, which is exactly why you heard the president
starting to talk about amnesty because he is begging to be impeached.
Let`s not fall into a trap when the guy absolutely wants to be impeached.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: He deserves to be impeached. He is just begging to be
impeached. I mean, is the GOP trying to have it both ways here, Joe?

MADISON: Can that be the dumbest thing that you`ve of heard anybody say?
That here is a president -- look. You know what`s so crazy, here we are
sending, what, men and women back into Iraq, into harm`s way. As if the
president doesn`t have a thousand things and this country doesn`t have a
thousand things to worry about. But you know what, that same congressman
should have been at the National Action Network. How, what? Two years
ago?

SHARPTON: Yes.

MADISON: Was it two years ago?

SHARPTON: Yes.

MADISON: And I said at that time, that if this -- if he wins, this
election which you know he did.

SHARPTON: Right.

MADISON: The next step is going to be impeachment. This is -- and you`ve
got the tape. This is something they created, they created this so now
what happening, it`s backfiring on them and they are trying to flip the
script as if the president wants to spend the next two years and trial in
the United States Senate. It is the dumbest thing. And it`s their way of
really trying to flip the script and the reality is that people are voting
not only planning to go to the polls but they`re voting with their money.
These are big donors.

SHARPTON: But let me do this. Because we are running out of time. I want
to hear this one thing with you, Margie, before I have to go. The
Republican National Committee is going after the president for his vacation
in Martha`s Vineyard. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: President is enjoying his vacation.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Seventeen room property.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Actually exclusive 10 acres.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Almost impossible to get to the basketball court.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Only a few people may have access to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Infinity pool.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It was pretty remarkable he got here and on the golf
course in almost record time. He was already hitting off the first tee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, so far Margie and his presidency, President Obama`s taken
129 days of vacation. At the same point in his presidency, President
George W. Bush had taken 407. Where was the outrage then, Margie?

OMERO: I don`t know. At this rate people are going to start criticizing
the president for eating and sleeping. I mean, it shoot the sign that a
lot of these folks would rather play the same thing with that quote. They
really prefer that in Reno, where they are just playing politics rather
than getting real things done.

SHARPTON: Yes. Margie Omero, Joe Madison, I`m going to have to leave it
there. Thank you for your time tonight.

OMERO: Thank you, Reverend.

MADISON: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Up next, chilling out for a good cause. The ice bucket
challenge. That is helping people to help others. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Have you heard about the ice bucket challenge? It`s a growing
social media trend where people dump ice water over their heads. To raise
awareness for the ALS disease. You dump the bucket and then challenge
three people who have 24 hours to respond or donate $100. Celebrities are
getting involved. Like Justin Timberlake who dumped that ice bucket over
his head? Last night on the "Today" show, Jimmy Fallon and the roots took
the challenge. Having some fun in the studio. My colleague, Rachel Maddow
accepted the challenge from FOX News Shepherd Smith. And our own technical
manager, Anthony, got involved for the cause. But this social media craze
is spreading the politicians. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOE KENNEDY III (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Let`s strike out ALS.

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R), ALASKA: I support and I love and we`re going to -
- woo!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Those were all great. But this one is my personal favorite.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ETHEL KENNEDY, WIFE OF ROBERT KENNEDY: OK, President Obama. This is for
you.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: President Obama declined. But will make a donation this week.
This ice challenge really warms the heart.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We`re back with breaking news from Ferguson. NBC affiliate in
St. Louis reports the body of Michael Brown has been returned to his
family. A preliminary autopsy shows he died as a result of gunshot wounds.
A second autopsy is still planned. These are emotional days. But we need
peace in the streets. Michael Brown`s father, talked about that yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I need all us to come together and do this right, the
right way. The right way, so we can get something done about this. No
violence, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The nation wants and needs answers in this Michael Brown
shooting. But we also have to recognize that the problems surrounding the
case goes back decades. In 1980, the town of Ferguson, Missouri was 85
percent white. And just had 14 percent black. Thirty years later, the
ratio has nearly flipped. Ferguson is now 29 percent white and 67 percent
black. Things have changed. But not as the cop. The mayor and police
chief are both white. The city council is just 16 percent African-
American. Police Department, six percent. And school board, zero percent.
That`s right. None of the board members are black, even though nearly 80
percent of the kids in the school district are African-American.

In Ferguson, the poverty rate is worse than the national average. So is
the unemployment rate. Too many people in Ferguson have lost hope. They
feel powerless and feel like they can`t improve their lives. And their
communities like Ferguson all over this country. We are seeing this
frustration and anger also boil over in cities like Chicago, with shootings
have reached a crisis level. So yes, we need justice for Michael Brown.
But we also need a larger conversation about the factors that are crippling
communities like Ferguson and we need to make changes and policy for
justice.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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