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The Ed Show for Wednesday, August 13th, 2014

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August 13, 2014

Guest: Todd Frankel, Salamishah Tillet, Anne Zerlina Maxwell, John
Garamendi, Jane Kleeb, Don Anderson, Ari Rabin-Havt


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Suburban St. Louis, the scene that photographers
captured look like police stake.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN`S MOTHER: It`s not a crime in walking down
the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protesters march with their hands up. Stands witnesses
say, ground took.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers approaching us. And as he pull up on the
side of us, he didn`t say freeze, halt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want the truth and I want justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The NAACP officials saying that they have witnesses,
witnesses who say there was no confrontation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of conflicting stories because the police
here won`t state nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An old wound that has been torn open afresh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We call for calm and call for everybody to be

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A wound that hadn`t quite healed right in the person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a peaceful person and he lived his live


MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: Violence in Ferguson, Missouri is reaching
a fever pitch. It`s now the forth day of protest after the fate of police
shooting of unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown. Late last night, police in
riot gear met the crowd who`s stood and sat outside of the QuikTrip
convenience stores that burned down to the ground Sunday ready to break up
any violence.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the St. Louis County Police Department.
Disperse now or you will be arrested.

This is the St. Louis County Police Department. Disperse now, go home or
you`ll subject of arrest.


DYSON: Since Sunday night people have stood side by side in the streets to
demand justice for Michael Brown. Ferguson which is a bit north of St.
Louis is mostly black. Members of the Ferguson in St. Louis county police
are mostly white.

In August 2000, then Democratic Governor Mel Carnahan and then attorney
general who is now the Democratic Governor of Missouri Jay Nixon were both,
both personally on hand for the signing of a bill that ban racial profiling
by police in Missouri. The bill also required that every police officer in
the state record information about the race of the person they were
stopping every time they made a traffic stop.

The most recent data for 2013 shows black people made up 67 percent of the
population in Ferguson but they made up 86 percent of traffic stops. It`s
a big disparity as a snapshot. It`s been this way for many years. Demands
for justice for Michael Brown have escalated into vandalism and looting and
violence. Of course begun (ph) to violence. The St. Louis Business
Journal was reporting a spike in gun store sales in the wake of the
Ferguson riots.

Some activists are taking a different tone with the message of peace. Last
night in Christ the King United Church of Christ a peaceful crowd gather to
hear speakers like Missouri Governor Jay Nixon. He told the standing room
audience, "In the face of crisis, we must show calm. Instead of burning
bridges in anger, we much build them with love."

The Reverend Al Sharpton, president of the National Action Network and host
of MSNBC Politics Nation went to Ferguson at the request of the family of
Michael Brown. Here`s what he said during the news conference Tuesday.


take their child`s name and drag it through the mud because you are angry.
To become violent in Michael Brown`s name is to betray the gentle giant
that he was. Don`t be so angry that you distort the image of who his mother
and father told us he was.


DYSON: Reverend Sharpton also in that speech called for serious measures
of justice to address the significant underlying causes of violence that
precipitate such heinous actions, but also the heinous characterization of
black people that has characterized that city for too long.

Joining me now, Todd Frankel, staff reporter for Washington Post, he`s been
following the story. Mr. Frankel, tell us what`s happening, what`s the

TODD FRANKEL, THE WASHINGTON POST: The latest is there was press
conference this afternoon in Ferguson and the police chief didn`t reveal
too much new information but at least he finally meet with the public, meet
with the press. He talked a little bit about, acknowledging there was a
problem in the city and that they will look into it.

But the biggest thing probably is what did not come out. Like (ph) in
calling for the officer`s name who shot Michael Brown, for it -- he`s name
to be released and the police chief once again said that, now was not the
right time for that information to come out.

DYSON: Yes, SWAT team members already responding, do you think more
enforce men will be brought in light of some of the devastating events

FRANKEL: Yes, you know, it`s a tense situation. It`s hard to say how it
played out. I mean, I think last night, according to reports on the ground
where it was a little bit calmer a night before. And each night sort (ph)
of little bit less outrageous, you know, some of the scenes we were seeing
early on, the fires and the tear gas and stuff. So, we can only hope that
perhaps cooler heads have prevailed.

So, I think everyone sort of agree is that, this sort of actions is sort of
counter productive in the long run.

DYSON: Yes, and that`s one of the -- that`s one of the conundrums isn`t
it? The violence that takes place against that minority population is
largely ignored than when conflagration occurs they are then blamed for
perpetuating the violence that when was directed toward them, didn`t get
addressed. So how do you deal with that kind of balance when looking at
the necessity of maintaining peach but at the same time looking at the
precipitating causes?

FRANKEL: Yeah, I think that`s a huge challenge and I think you also have a
challenge of how things look the next day when you have this police
presence that is heavily armed and a lot of people pointed out that the
rubber bullets and the tear gas and stuff. And those images just, you
know, sort of we get more violence as people get angrier because it looks
more like police stake, I think several people described as being...

DYSON: Yeah.

FRANKEL: ... and looking -- appearing down there. And so, yeah, that`s
why, you know, it`s nice to hear that, you know, a lot of public officials
seem to be calling for calm in the streets. And like I said, last night
was calmer than the night before. And hopefully you know, this will sort
of peter out.

DYSON: Sure, Todd Frankel, thank for you time.

FRANKEL: Sure thing.

DYSON: I`m joined now by Salamishah Tillet, the Assistant Professor of
English and Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania and Co-
founder of A Long Walk Home, Anne Zerlina Maxwell, Political Analyst and
contributor to the

You know Salamishah I want to pick up with the story here because some
social analyst have been concerned about the fact that when the violence is
precipitated, nobody wants to see the violence it certainly has to be
maintained, calm has to be restored. But how unbalanced it is to focus on
that aspect of it as opposed to what caused the violence to begin in the
first place. Can you speak to that?

felt like it`s a slight misdirection. And, you know, you wrote that
wonderful book on Katrina, that`s the last time we`ve most recently heard
about people rioting in response to a failed crisis both in terms of, you
know, natural disaster but also the failed governmental response. And for
me, you know, one of the most radicalizing moments for my generation
obviously was Rodney King, the verdict and obviously the subsequent
rebellion that took place in L.A.

DYSON: Right.

TILLET: So I think when we talked about rioting and looting the question
is when is it appropriate to have civil unrest? When is it appropriate for
communities to defend themselves and when is it appropriate for communities
to organize both in terms of peaceful protest but also, you know, what are
the stakes and what does it take for communities of color particular
African-American, working class communities to have a justified and sense
of justice in their communities?

To take these kind of responses, take this violence in the murder of young
African-American Boy than to lead to the an organized response impart of
public officials. But also, you know, the rioting and looting I think are
just code words and names for civil unrest. And I don`t know what the
appropriate response is to the epidemic of black young people being killed
both by civil -- by, you know, private citizens and by police officers
almost, you know, monthly if, you know, weekly.

DYSON: Yeah, every 28 hours we know that some young black person is being
gunned down on the streets of America but especially at the hands state
representatives in terms of police departments and others. Zerlina, the
social media network has been very intense in responding to this and other
catastrophes, crisis and chaos. Tell us about the hashtag if they gun, you
know, what is it? If they gun me down...


DYSON: Tell us about that.

MAXWELL: Well that`s a response and I think a really, really poignant
message talking about the problem of respectability politics which is when
a young black person or a person of color is gunned down or killed, often
the picture that is portrayed in the media is trying to put them in a box
like they tried to thug -- making Trevor Martin into a thug by showing
pictures of him that some of which were not even him but of him in a white
peter (ph) sort of in serial typical positions or, you know, on the other
hand being someone who is educated like Michael Brown starting school on

Are they showing the picture of him sort in the jersey with their pants up
or are they showing his high school gradations picture. And I think that
the response by the media when it is a white person who is killed early on
in their life versus a black person the response could not be more
different. They`re always -- their humanity is always -- even when it`s a
school shooter, larger media is trying to find why did they do this?

DYSON: Right.

MAXWELL: You know what went wrong. And I think that they`re thought of as
someone who has the full range of humanity. And that is not something that
is given to young black people who are gunned down unfortunately.

DYSON: I want to pick up on that because I was at eatery recently in
Washington D.C. and I saw a young white kid cursing the police out. And I
was fearful and I said oh no, he`s white guy, he`s going to be all right
and he was. They had talked to him, they didn`t beat him. They dismissed
it because it because they understood he was a young person. He was orated
(ph) perhaps even a bit drunk.

So, Salamishah there had been several studies that talk about the
dehumanization of black kids.


DYSON: Black boys in particular in terms of no being seen as innocent,
black girls and boys not seen as fully human. How do we then balance the
reality that there`s a pervasive belief in the society that deprives young
black people of their humanity and at the same time talk about the outrage
that that evokes when an incident like this occurs?

TILLET: Well again, to just pick up what you were talking about with the
hashtag because that`s a response to the criminalization of black people,
right? And then the rhetoric of looting and rioting is also a kind of
recriminalization of black people. So you have both a responds to this
young African-American man Michael Brown that in some ways assumes that
blackness is always a threat, he`s already a criminal, therefore worthy of
being killed by police officer.

And then you have the rhetoric about African-American civil unrest being
further criminalization and so there are -- not just conundrums where I
think there`s an irony in many -- devastating ironies, that black people
are always perceived as criminals and that younger and younger African-
Americans are seeing, you know, the study show that four-year-olds are
being kicked out of classes.


DYSON: Right.

TILLET: Of boys and girls...

DYSON: Right.

TILLET: ... African-American boys and girls for unruly behavior. So
there`s actually very little protection of black childhood and there`s an
earlier and earlier criminalization of black children. And so therefore
the outcome here of Michael Brown, his tragic death is in many ways part of
the system of criminalization of black people but also the ways in which
black lives, they`re seen as unworthy, seen as less than and seen piece,
you know, the outcome will be black death.

DYSON: Right. Well, picking up on that, Ferguson`s population is nearly
70 percent. Would there be this kind of outrage if the situation would
reverse? What about if a black policemen head shot a white kids, what do
you think the outcome then given what you both given to us in analytical
position, what would the outcome Zerlina?

MAXWELL: Well, I think certainly, there would be outrage in the community,
the white community. But I also think that if a young white person were
gone down I think the black community as well would be outrage. I think,
you know, we are sick and tired of seeing it be our sons and our daughters,
but I think that we value life and so I think that the sense of justice
isn`t something that as, you know, only, we only case about black life even
though as you said it`s valued as less than.

But also I think about Cliven Bundy and I think about, you know, all of his
supporters showing up with guns spaced (ph) at the federal officials and
they were able to stay there and it was a standoff. It wasn`t -- they
didn`t come in with tanks and start tear gassing people on their own front
yard. And so, I just think that if it were a white life lost I think that
was -- it would be, you know, predictable outrage but certainly the respond
here is inappropriate.

And, you know, I think back to the Dred Scott Decision when I think about
this case, and I think about the rhetoric on that when they were talking
about how blacks have no rights that a white man is bound to respect...

DYSON: Absolutely.

MAXWELL: ... and I think that, you know, we have to come beyond 1857.

DYSON: No doubt about that. Salamishah, when we talk about this, how do
we get our leaders who understandably are calling for peace and calm to
understand the complicated terrain that you`ve spoken to so that they don`t
end up reproducing the pathology of blackness and seeing these young black
people as already criminalized and participating in the further
criminalization of them by calling for peace without having that
complicated understanding of that history involved?

TILLET: Well, I mean, I guess the call for peace is understandable but the
call for justice is much direr. And so, I think when we`re speaking of our
leaders, I think there`s a variety of our elected officials, there are
civil rights leaders, they`re everyday citizens. That`s the ongoing desire
for racial justice and full equality for African-Americans as the end goal.
So you can have a rhetoric of peace in the community and saying that you
don`t want this communities to be further devastated, but I think the real
issue is, you know, when you have this police officers in these communities
both on a day to day basis and here with riot gear to fend off potential

I mean who are we seeing as a perpetrators of violence, right? And in this
case obviously it was a white police officer and you have police officers
there not to protect the citizens but to fend off rioters. So, I think for
me, the issue is, you know, I could go back to, when you have, you know,
military presence in Eisenhower and desegregation, in the ways in which
Federal government -- understanding the ways the local governments may not
be able to protect their citizens because there already rift (ph) with
racism, that there is the call for perhaps federal intervention to help
protect black citizens who are under siege whether it`s New York City,
whether it`s St. Louis, whether it`s Florida or California.

I mean it`s happening so much. So I think we deserve more and we should be
asking for more as well.

DYSON: Well, should we asking more from the president of United States of
America. He made a statement, right? In terms of the heartbrokenness that
he and Michelle Obama felt but is that putting him as an political outsider
or should he be circumspect at this point until more facts are in or should
he perhaps issue an edict to the federal government to perhaps protect the
people in that particular locale more vigorously?

TILLET: Yeah, I mean I would say yes. There`s a pattern here I mean as
Barack Obama has been president of United States for the last, you know,
his terms. There have been succession of black people who have been killed
both by private citizens among five police officers. And so the moral
courage and the moral conscious of the president, I believe would be to
help protect citizens at all cost.

And, you know, there`s that rhetoric that he uses of self defense of people
having the right to defend themselves against other attacks whether it`s in
Israel and that`s the language he uses there. I think here, we should
think about African-Americans as citizens who are under siege and under
attack as well.

DYSON: All right. Salamishah Tillet and Zerlina Maxwell, thank you so
much for your time tonight. Coming up, we have fresh evidence of global
warming and yet climates-deniers turn a blind eye.

But first, more U.S. military personnel have been sent to Iraq.
Representative John Garamendi joins me next.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We have some breaking news. The U.S.
military continue to engage ISIS forces today. Shortly after noon, eastern
time, a drone struck and destroyed an ISIS armed vehicle, west of Sinjar
village. This strike was in the same area where thousands of ethnic
minorities are still stranded on Mount Sinjar. The onslaught of violence
from ISIS continues for thousands of displaced Iraqi civilians. The White
House has moved forward in sending more military advisors to the region.


BEN RHODES, WHITE HOUSE STAFFER: What the president`s done is authorized
the deployment of a 130, roughly U.S. military personnel who will assess
the situation on Sinjar Mountain and in Northern Iraq. They then, again
will make recommendations about how to follow through on an effort to get
the people off that mountain into a safe place.


DYSON: According to the Pentagon, these Special Forces personnel are armed
for their own safety but will not fulfill any combat role while on the
ground. NBC news` Kier Simmons has the latest on the heinous deadlock in
the region.


KIER SIMMONS, MBC NEWS REPORTER: They have crossed a mountain on foot in
the desert heat force to flee their homes driven by their fear of ISIS.

This woman says militants beheaded several men in her village and mounted
their heads on the hoods of cars. ISIS is well armed but sheer terror
maybe their most powerful weapon. And these are the men confronting ISIS
fighting spear and brutality, outgunned using weapons from the past. The
Kurds share this base with the Iraqi army. Two historic adversaries now
united against the common enemy.

A foe that has made it clear it will stop at nothing. Kier Simmons, MBC
News, Erbil, Iraq.


DYSON: The President has received little opposition from either side of
the house for sending air strikes. But parties are divided on the
military`s next role in the region. Republicans advocate for stronger
action while Democrats do not want to reenter war. The debate now is
focused on how much U.S. action in Iraq will hand drawn (ph) congressional

Joining me tonight, Congressman John Garamendi of California. Congressman
good to have you with us


DYSON: Congressman under the War Powers Act, President Obama has 60 days
to deploy troops without congressional approval. Just how far do you
believe he will exercise this power?

GARAMENDI: Well, I suspect he`ll go the full 60 days. It`s highly
unlikely that this refugee and issue will be resolved in the month, month
and half. And beyond that there are some very serious problems in the
entire area that are not going to go away anytime soon. So, those 60 days
are going to run and congress must do its constitutional responsibility
which is to take up the issue, stay, expand or get out.

DYSON: Well, if we talk about stay, you know, or get out, the reality is
that there`s a lot of political pressure on him either to concede to the
wishes of congress along the way as, you know, as an advisory board so to
speak to join with him on this. But he`s also facing political opposition
from the likes of Lindsey Graham and John McCain. So how does he get out
of that kind of conundrum?

GARAMENDI: Well that`s the political conundrum. The real conundrum is in
Iraq, how do we deal with that issue there? And when we return in
September I would hope that the Congress would conduct a series of very
intense briefings and hearings so that we can learn form the President what
his goal is, what the extent of the engagement might be, and what the
slippery slope might look like?

And then we must under the constitution and under the War`s Powers Act, we
must act. We cannot fail to do so if we fail to do so then under the War`s
Powers Act, the President must withdraw from -- well, we must -- we simply
must act, yes or no, move forward or not.

DYSON: Sure.

GARAMENDI: And that`s the situation. And it`s our responsibility all 535
of us share that responsibility on behalf of the American public. So, it`s
his action now, he`s doing what I think is necessary. That is dealing with
the immediate situation the refugee situation, the humanitarian situation
that he must do.

We are however building up our troops on the ground. We are however
starting on that slippery slope. How far it goes? We need to know and we
need to make a decision as the representatives of the American people.

DYSON: Well so far the United States has executed airs strikes and Britain
has joined our forces in delivering humanitarian airdrops.


DYSON: What do you think of the next steps from there because some people
are saying, "Well are going to ask our allies to join us in terms of
sending advisers over there?" That begins to, you know, the war creep
begins to really ramp up there.

GARAMENDI: Well exactly right. It is the creeping towards war and the
slippery slop, all of that. But really this issue is going to have to be
resolved in Iraq. We need that political settlement. It seems as though
Maliki is on this out. Good. He should have been out a month ago, but if
he goes today or tomorrow that`s good. We need a new Prime Minister. We
need an inclusive government in Iraq.

We also need to make sure that Kurds, the Turkish people, Syria, Jordan,
all of the rest are going to be deeply involved in this. And we know that
Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, all of them are at risk. And so we need
a unified political action to deal with the ISIL onslaught. If we fail to
have that then it may come to us. And then the question is can we do this
without that kind of coordinated action among all of the players in the
area to do away with this very serious threat to them?

DYSON: Well let me ask you a two-pronged question about Syria. What`s the
difference in sentiment between this crisis in Iraq and Syria and do you
agree with Senator, you know with Senator McCain and Graham that we should
be stretching as far as Syria to do some preemptive strikes there to make
sure that we cut off the head, so to speak of ISIS?

GARAMENDI: Well, I think those two fellows would like to bomb everywhere
all of the time and I`ve said that much over the last several years. No, I
don`t think we had to follow they`re lead all. There`s a much more, a
measured way to go about that. The President is going about in a measured

And this situation, Syria has evolved over the last three to four years in
a way that has in fact lead to the growth of the ISIL or ISIS and that is
where we are today. Now, that situation in Syria has spilled over major
problem in Iraq and it does require our serious attention. It requires on
humanitarian side. It also requires our attention on the political
diplomatic side making sure that the Iraqi government becomes inclusive and
not giving the Sunnis a reason to fight against the Baghdad government.

And it seems as though that maybe be happening. The new fellow that`s been
appointed by the President to become the Prime Minister seems to have the
support of the Kurdish people as well as the -- some of the Sunnis if not
all of them, that`s a good thing. And if he could pull it together, make a
more inclusive government.

And then, I think these air strikes are also giving the Kurdish people and
the Iraqi government a little bit of breathing time to get themselves
organized, to get the proper weapons, to repel and in fact roll back ISIL.

DYSON: All right. Congressman John Garamendi, thank you so much for
joining us tonight.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

DYSON: Coming up, Hillary Clinton offered a solid solution. When in
doubt, hug it out.

Plus, more devastating effects of climate change. A toxic tide threatens
Florida`s sea life and tourism.

But next, I`m taking your questions Ask MED Live is just ahead. Stay


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We loved hearing from our viewers.
Tonight in the Ask MED Live, our question is from Gary. "After President
Obama leaves office, do you think he would consider an appointment to

You know, I really don`t. I think that -- look, the man is so busy now and
he`ll be even busier when he`s out of office doing all kinds of
humanitarian ventures going across the world speaking, making a lot of
chatter and also creating opportunities for his wife and his family as she
creates opportunities for her husband their family. And I think he`ll
treasure that time together with them. And plus, do you think he could
actually get through the Senate?

They can`t even give him the carte blanche to do a few things that
everybody agrees that are necessary? Maybe Eric Holder, no they probably
wouldn`t let him in through either, but both of them would be great

Our next question is from David. "Now that the sale of the Clippers is
finalized, can the NBA emerge from Donald Sterling`s bigotry?" Let`s hope
so. I think so.

In think the quick indecisive manner with which Adam Silver acted, I think
the way in which the player stood up for themselves and say look we`re not
going to take this. I think that they`re coming together of Doc Rivers in
CP3 and Lebron James and Kobe Bryant and Carmelo Anthony signify to the
world that they stood together as brothers against the vicious intemperate
bigotry of a man like Donald Sterling.

There`s no place in the NBA for Donald Sterling, Lebron James said and now
he`s gone. Hit the road Jack and don`t come back.

Stick around the Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap. Stocks gain ground despite the weak economic day. The Dow
jumps 91 points, the S&P add 12 and the NASDAQ rises 44.

Retail sales were flat at July, the weakest reading since January.
Economist expected a slight increase.

Guidance from equipment maker Deere disappointed investors. The stocks
flunk (ph) more than 2 percent today. And after the closing bill,
networking giant CISCO reported earning and revenue, they came in ahead of
analyst`s estimates.

That`s it from CNBC we`re first in business worldwide.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This summer we`ve seen dangerous
weather from coast to coast. There`s very little doubt among scientist
that increasing severe weather patterns are connected to climate change.
So as Al Roker would say, here`s what`s going on in your neck of the woods.

Over the past two days, there have been severe floods across the country,
Phoenix Arizona, Detroit Michigan where I hail from, Baltimore Maryland
near where I live, and Long Island New York also dangerous flooding. This
was the scene on the Southern State Parkway in Long Island this morning.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Hayton (ph) was on his way to work at JFK when
flood water surrounded his car on the Southern State Parkway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The water was going over that center median. It`s
actually holding the water from going to the other side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was so bad Hayton (ph) says. The North Babylon fire
fighter had to rescue him and about 100 other who abounded their cars on
the flooded road way.


DYSON: On top of all that, flooding devastated part of Nebraska hospital
on Friday. Flood water smashed, opened doors and flooded the cafeteria at
good Samaritan Hospital. Meanwhile, in Washington State a rare haboob or
dust storm rove through the eastern portion of the state with 60 mile per
hour winds.

Just last week in Lake Erie a toxic algae bloom caused a drinking water ban
for over 400,000 people in Toledo, Ohio. The state of Florida is now faced
with the similar situation. The biggest toxic red tide in a decade is
threatening tourism and sea life as it moves near the coast.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bloom has already killed thousands of fish. Now,
these researchers, the Mote Marine in Sarasota are trying to find out if
it`s going to be harmful to humans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to kind of get in front of the bloom and see if
we can see what`s happening beneath to surface.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s what they know now. These arrows already show
red tide is moving southeast toward the shore and closer to Southwest
Florida. If it reaches land that`s when red tide a harmful algae bloom
starts causing a lot more problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Toxins from red tide can be aerosolized. They can into
the air if you`re on the beach they can extend about a mile inland.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That can cause respiratory issues in humans.


DYSON: The bloom is currently six miles wide, 90 miles long, and a 100
feet deep. The dark red in this map is the highest concentration of toxic

Joining me now is our rapid response panel Jane Kleeb, Executive Director
of, and Dr. Don Anderson of the Woods Hole Oceanographic
Institution. Jane, we`ve seen droughts, we`ve seen floods, severe of
weather all across this country, is there any doubt this is connected to
climate change?

JANE KLEEB, BOLDNEBRASKA.ORG: No, I mean it`s actually connected and we
need to start naming it in these news articles that`s happening. And so, I
don`t want to debate if climate change is happening or climate change is
real because it is.

The debate that we need to have is what hard choices are we going to make?
Are we going to make hard choice is our energy selection, are we going to
start funding things like University of Nebraska that`s looking at the
different corn that use less water. That`s what we should be debating.

DYSON: Well, you know, how can we get anything done when Republicans won`t
acknowledge the problem exist, you know, taking the refresher course in
science, it seems is the necessity because they keep denying.

KLEEB: No, That`s exactly right. And what people need to do now that
other members of congress are back home for August recess, is they even
need to bring a picture of a platter (ph) or a tin foil hat and essentially
calling your politician out. When they`re having a Town Hall or coffee
meet up in your town, go and visit them and bring those items and say, why
do you continued to deny science, because if you`re really concern about
jobs in our economic prosperity in the future, you will act now in climate

DYSON: Yeah, no doubt. So, Dr. Anderson, what`s causing this current red
tide bloom that we see in Florida?

I want to make sure people realize that in this case I think most people,
and I feel would not lay the blame on climate change. This phenomenon like
the one happening now have occurred since the 1600`s and probably for long,
long before then. And this particularly a severe one but it`s not unusual.
This is the kind of organism that grows, it`s an algae, it`s a single-
celled algae that divides and becomes very numerous, can make the water
appear red.

These blooms as we call then tend that originate offshore, and then, move
towards shore. This one is, as you said, 20 miles or so offshore. It may
never reach shore. It may never cause some of the damage that others have.
But it`s being monitored very carefully. But they`re -- you mention the
Lake Erie incident, the other bloom there. There, again I wouldn`t
necessarily invoke climate, but much more pollution from agriculture and
other sources as driving force behind that outbreak.

DYSON: Well isn`t phosphorus being pumped into these lakes. So, I want
you to answer that, but then I want you to draw back and say, but you`re
not suggesting that climate change is not real, you`re suggesting that
these particular phenomenon don`t substantiate the claim of climate change.

ANDERSON: Exactly. I want to emphasize your latter point. I`m a believer
also. I`m sure that climate change is happening. And there are types of
red tides and algae bloom where the climate is having effects.

Sometimes, things that we would call range expansions where species moves
into areas where it couldn`t grow before. But these particular cases are
better explained using other mechanisms. And yes, you`re right phosphorus,
nitrogen, these nutrients for plants are being washed into these lakes or
into the ocean and stimulate these plans just like they would stimulate the
growth of a plant in you`re windowsill. So, but that`s not climate
related, that is just more of a human impact. And I think the distinction
is important.

DYSON: Well, before I turn to Jane again, how dangerous is the current
bloom though?

ANDERSON: Well, it`s certainly dangerous for wildlife and potentially for
humans. As was mentioned earlier there are variety of effects, these toxin
when it comes -- these cells when they come near shore the toxin can become
airborne as sea spray. And people will cough and wheeze and they have to
move away from the shore. It will go away, if you move inland some people
that might have COPD or asthma might have little more severe problems.

But, by in large, you know, that`s a very bother some effect. Fish will
die, coral reefs might die, and some of these shallow system, manatees the
endangered manatees have been killed, dolphins will die, sea birds. And
there is even a toxic that can show up in shellfish. But the monitoring
programs by the state agencies are very, very effective in keeping
dangerous seafood off the market, of also warning people away from beaches.

And again, they`re mapping out this outbreak with little-- of we call an
AOVs, vehicles that like torpedoes that are cruising under the bloom and
mapping it out. And a computer models are being used to predict where, it
will it will reach lands. So, its being well manage even though there is
this potential dangerous associated with it.

DYSON: OK. So Jane, give as some update on the Keystone pipeline, what do
things stand right now?

KLEEB: Yeah. So, essentially they don`t have a permit in South Dakota or
Nebraska. And we are headed to the Nebraska Supreme Court on September
5th. We are essentially defending our position, we won in the lower court
Governor Heineman is trying to get that decision overturned.

If we win you`re looking at another year and a half process for TransCanada
to go through, to get the right approve. We will argue that they need
actually avoid the Sandhills this time and avoid Ogallala Aquifer. But
carbon pollution is the biggest driver of climate change which is why so
many of us are fighting Keystone XL, but it`s also obviously taking away
properly right. We can`t ignore that anymore. So, you know, folks bring
your tin hats to the town halls and call these politicians out.

DYSON: Right, and in doing so, that kind of environmental activism is not
simply for, you know, exercising and flexing one`s own muscles. It really
has political consequences and actual consequences on the environment in
which in people live. How do you stimulate people to think more seriously
about their relationship to their environment? We know the committed
people will do that, but how you get everyday Americans to see that?

KLEEB: You know, sometimes when see this big flood and these big
tornadoes, we don`t want to think that that`s connected to climate change
or that`s connected to us, right? Something that we did, we have to start
owning our environment. We have to start owning our land and our water.
And so, when you look at those floods or you look at this extreme weather
pattern, when you look at our soil deteriorating, start to think the carbon
pollution that`s making that happen.

And we can ask moms, as a grandfather you are, we can start taking these
small decision and these small steps. And that is why we have to callout
our politicians. We don`t want to see more fossil fuel projects developed.
I want to see more microgrids, more microgrids of solar being done. I want
to see solar as were (ph) going down barns and more wind. That is what we
need to do. You know, politicians aren`t challenge and talk about it, they

DYSON: Do orderly citizens in the Nebraska see that is climate change
though, do they really get the relationship between those things you
talking about and climate change?

KLEEB: When we talk the Keystone XL flight on, no. There`s no way that
any of the farmers or ranchers we worked with would have connected those

DYSON: Right.

KLEEB: And now, they called Keystone XL one of the biggest climate
changers. And they`re right, because if we allow tar sands to expand, it
is one of the dirtiest fossil fuels out there, it essentially emits about
four times the amount of carbon pollution that traditional oil does. And
so, I want to see pipeline carrying biofuels, I don`t want to see pipeline
can tar sands.

DYSON: Right. Well, Jane Kleeb and Dr. Don Anderson, thank you so much
for your time tonight.

ANDERSON: Very welcome.

DYSON: Coming up Bachmann 2.0? It can`t be. Pretender is next.


DYSON: In Pretenders tonight, Michelle Bachmann 2.0, Tom Emmer, the former
Minnesota State representative won the Republican primary last night to
take Bachmann`s vacant seat. Emmer first gained a radical right reputation
after his failed run for the Governor`s Office in 2010. After his loss, he
did what any good former conservative candidate will do. Host a radio


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom Emmer wanted to be your governor and came this
close to winning. Bob Davis has never won anything. So, what are these
two doing on the radio every morning? Listen and find out for yourself.
Twin Cities Newstalk...


DYSON: The best moments from Davis and Emmer in the morning came from
their pre-radio selfie videos.


FMR. REP. TOM EMMER, (R) MINNESOTA: I went out last night and spent my
time with a North Metro Tea Party...

BOB DAVIS, KTLK RADIO HOST: The Tea Party patriots...

EMMER: What a great group. Libya still in the news...

DAVIS: Libya still on the news...

EMMER: Nobody can find the slippery mysterious Gadhafi, the chicken

DAVIS: The chicken heart...

EMMER: Boom, boom, boom.

DAVIS: That`s the government...

EMMER: That`s right...

DAVIS: It just keeps growing and growing and pretty soon it consumes all
of us.

I think everybody should get punched...


DYSON: If Tom Emmer thinks we can take him more seriously than Michelle
Bachmann, he can keep on pretending.


DYSON: Time now for the Trenders. Keep in touch with us on Twitter@edshow
and on Facebook. And you find me on Twitter@michaeledyson.

The Ed Show social media has decided and we`re reporting.

Here today`s top Trenders voted on by you.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, three`s company.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three baby panda cubs stole the show at a South China

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to see the baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Chinese zoo welcomes a trio of pandas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 12-year-old giant panda named Juxiao gave birth to
the triplets in July...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s only a 1 percent chance for a giant panda to
give birth to three cubs at once.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the cubs are in good health.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m the baby. (Inaudible). Got to love me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, rough job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new mayor of a Minnesota town is just 7-years-old
and he doesn`t say much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Mayor, can I get a statement from you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duke is the top dog at the city hall in Cormorant,

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are 12 people in the village who paid a dollar to
cast a vote.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He won by a landslide. His constituents say this
Great Pyrenees makes a great leader.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Locals say he roams around, keeping an eye on

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a bite out of crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, hug life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A foreign policy defense that went very public.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Don`t do stupid stuff!" is not an organizing

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They continue to agree on a broad majority of issues
even if they have the occasional policy difference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clinton looks to embrace Obama after running from his
foreign policy position.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First Clinton says she plans "Hugging it out with
President Obama tonight".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to hug it out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The President has taken thoughtful deliberate approach
to these issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clinton using the word "failure" to describe President
Obama`s serious strategy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The President appreciates her council and advice but
more importantly he appreciates her friendship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just not going to be a very healthy thing for the
party going forward if every time Clinton and Obama have a difference on
policy, they have this kind family feud.


DYSON: Joining me now is Ari Rabin-Havt, host of The Agenda Sirius XM
radio. So, Ari, will hugging it out put the issue behind them?

know what the issue is. The idea that Hillary and Obama disagree on
foreign policy, that dates back 2008, the idea that Hillary is a more
hulkish figure, wants to be more aggressive on Syria, I think everybody
knew that. I don`t think there`s anything to put behind it, but I guess
they`ll hug it out tonight in Martha`s Vineyard.

DYSON: When do you think it will happen, it will happen under, you know,
with some mariachi music, will it happen with some Rumba, will it happen
with zumba class, will it happen with what? Some boogie on and some rap,
what do you conceive it to be?

RABIN-HAVT: I`d like to think it`s over a glass of scotch. That would be
classic way to hug it out. You know, a little racks, little scotch, maybe
some Jack Daniel`s Black Label, I mean, I think of the two of them
toasting, hugging it out, I mean -- but the truth is, look, this interview
-- that this came from, the hugging -- the controversy that was stood up
about, "Oh, Hillary dissed Obama"

It covers up something really important, and that is Hillary laid out very
clearly where she stand on the variety of different foreign policy, issues.
And as people look towards future elections that might or might not happen,
I actually think the interview as a whole is a really important demarcation

DYSON: Sure. Well despite the inelegant description of the president`s
foreign policy position boiling down to "Don`t do stupid stuff" Isn`t this
where a lot of Americans are when it comes foreign intervention, I mean,
intervention, they agree with President Obama. Let`s stop the Benghazi
(ph), let`s stop the playground of foreign territories and doing crazy
stuff, let`s just not do stupid stuff.

RABIN-HAVT: Well, look, we did stupid stuff for eight years. Starting
with the war in Iraq which was the stupidest of stuff and that`s just the
preamble of stupid during the Bush administration. And I have a column up
at USA Today that just went up right up right now where I make this point,
that we did stupid stuff for eight years.

Americans elected Barrack Obama impart because they didn`t want to do
stupid stuff in the foreign policy realm. They didn`t want foreign
interventionism run a mock. And by the way, that was shown back about a
year ago when the president tried to take a more aggressive approach
towards Syria and was shot down by s House of Representatives, the first
time Democrats and Republicans got together and said "Whoa" and that`s
because voters didn`t want it.

DYSON: So, Hillary`s hulkish record caused her 2008, what about 2016 if
she were to run?

RABIN-HAVT: Look, I think it`s an important discussion. I think Hillary
is the most popular Democrat in the party right now. I think she`s
incredibly popular. I think that people like her but her foreign policy
stands are something that people will look at. Democrats have a very
strong aversion right now to foreign military interventions. And Hillary
is, by her admission in the hulkish wing of the party.

DYSON: Right.

RABIN-HAVT: What`s so interesting to me about this is all of these
prognosis (ph) thing, is Hillary positioning herself in this way or that
way? No, it`s much simpler than that. She told Jeffrey Goldberg what she
believes and I think first of, that`s important and second, people should
look at it and decide if they believe that too.

DYSON: Well, does this is make room for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth

RABIN-HAVT: I mean, look, I think Elizabeth Warren has made clear that she
doesn`t want to run. I think Bernie Sanders has been out there talking
about running but I think he kind of has suggested he wouldn`t run as a
Democrat, he`d run as an Independent, I`m not sure about that. I don`t
know. I think -- look, I think primaries are healthy. I think good
primaries are healthy. I think that 2008 primary was a good place for the
Democratic Party to work out a lot of issues and I think in 2016, I think
it is boohoos (ph) us to have good discussion of ideas regardless of who`s

DYSON: All right, Ari Rabin-Havt, thanks so much for your time tonight.

RABIN-HAVT: Thank you.

DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for the great Ed

Politics nation with the Reverend Dr. Al Sharpton starts right now. Good
evening, Rev.


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