THE ED SHOW
August 21, 2014
Guest: Daryl Parks, Alderman Antonio French, Barbara Lee, Eric Boehlert
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: We all saw here today that officer Wilson
has an orbital blowout fracture of his eye socket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and was beaten severely by Michael Brown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is been reported...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The orbital eye socket which is fractured and he was
nearly beaten unconscious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The source tells us...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... pretty much crushed his eye socket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is been reported...
O`REILLY: The factor has not been able to confirm that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information coming through The Gateway Pundit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This comes as well-placed source, tells foxnews.com.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According now to multiple reports that we have...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The source tell us...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to underscore that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is been reported...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw here...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our source telling Fox News exclusively...
O`REILLY: Only reporting the alleged injury. To demonstrate that there
will be much more to come in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he now know that this officer had a broken orbital
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The source sourced...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The source in this story...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... tells us...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thank for
watching. We begin tonight with the evolving narrative in the shooting
death of Michael Brown.
Now a number of news websites are reporting that Officer Darren Wilson
suffered a facial injuries in a confrontation with Brown before the
shooting. TheBlaze reports, Officer Wilson was beaten nearly unconscious,
nearly unconscious. TheBlaze of course is siting Fox News.
What does that mean? Nearly unconscious, have you ever been nearly
unconscious? Well, you lose your faculties for a little bit. You get
jogged around. You got to get it back together again. Boy, there must
have been a hell of a confrontation for a guy to be nearly unconscious.
Fox News is reporting Wilson was badly beaten with -- suffering severe
facial injuries. What is a severe facial injury? Beaten badly, what does
that mean? We`re playing with a lot of terms, past and loose here aren`t
Fox News sites an unnamed source close to the police department`s top
brass, there`s a hell of a source for you. And it`s not just conservative
news organizations doing this. Now the Washington Post is in the game,
they`re reporting Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket?
A fractured eye socket, in other words, he must have got the tar beaten out
of him, big time. The Post sites unnamed family friend, what`s going on
here? The Washington Post also reported hospital x-rays of the injury have
been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney and will be
shared with the grand jury.
That`s a heck of piece of information. You mean somebody told the
Washington Post that there are x-rays. That means he must have gone to the
hospital. And there`s an injury, and this information is going to be
submitted to the St. Louis county prosecuting attorney. Did they confirm
that? Does that mean that there`s a leak in the prosecuting attorney`s
ABC News in the game now, they are siting a single source close to the
officer who said, Wilson had suffered a serious facial injury, a serious
facial injury. The source told ABC the hospital photo of Wilson`s facial
injury is expected to be shown to the grand jury. No evidence has been
made public showing if Wilson was actually injured, but we`ve got media
description galore don`t we?
You know, it`s interesting, the police department released this video of
Michael Brown in the convenience store, but they refused to release any of
these pictures that show evidence that Darren Wilson had all these
unbelievable facial injuries and eye socket torn out, and everything else
that`s been reported. What`s going on here?
These news outlets as I see it are bringing forth and citing single unnamed
sources. This simply in my judgment isn`t enough information right now to
determine if Wilson was actually beaten by the victim who was shot. We
simply don`t know the other side of the story right now. But this hasn`t
stopped Fox News from jumping all over this narrative in the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`REILLY: We also hear today that officer Wilson has an orbital blowout
fracture of his eye socket. The factor has not been able to confirm that,
and we do not want to try this case on television.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A well-placed source tells foxnews.com that there was
violent confrontation between Michael Brown and Officer Darren Wilson
moments before the 18-year-old was shot and killed. That source is saying
that Michael Brown nearly beat the officer unconscious.
This report is based on one source, I want to underscore that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The orbital eye socket which was fracture and he was
nearly beaten unconscious according now multiple reports that we have
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our source telling Fox News exclusively that Officer
Darren Wilson was beaten badly by Michael Brown moments before he shot and
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Beaten badly, description of the injuries. Wow, there must have
been an unbelievable confrontation going on here. I mean a big guy just
railing on this cop. The earliest news report about the alleged facial
injuries to Officer Wilson was on Wednesday August 13th. This was four
days after the shooting.
Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson allegedly told local CBS affiliate KMOV
that Wilson was injured in the confrontation with Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA HETTIGER, KMOV REPORTER: So I was able to speak with the Ferguson
Police Chief himself and get an update on the officer involved in the Mike
Brown shooting that happened on Saturday. He confirms to me that that
officer did have injuries after whatever happened on Saturday afternoon --
that his face was swollen from being hit. Of course this is something that
News 4 will continue to follow all day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well I hope so. According to KMOV, the only person who put their
name on this story was the Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson. Jackson did
not produce any photographs to that reporter or evidence to backup his
statement. He doesn`t have to. He`s got Fox News describing almost a
This afternoon CNN senior social media producer Tweeted, "Officer Darren
Wilson did not suffer fracture, source tells CNN crews in Ferguson".
Now I want to play some video from the scene of the shooting on August 9th.
This video was taken right after Brown was shot. It shows a number of
different officers at the shooting scene. We don`t know -- we don`t know
if this gentleman right here. And we don`t know if these guys around the
police car. We don`t know if this gentleman -- we don`t if this gentleman
right here -- we don`t know if they`re Darren Wilson. But I bet those guys
We need to hear from these officers at the scene. They are the only ones
who would know if Wilson really suffered facial injuries to his eye socket.
They would know if he was badly beaten, they would know if he was almost
unconscious. Either that or they`re totally incompetent.
Here is what we do know. Later today, NBC news confirmed Darrel Wilson was
treated for injuries. We know Wilson was taken to an area hospital. We
don`t know if was admitted. It is not clear how serious the injuries were.
But you listen to Bill O`Reilly who is so upset about all of the coverage
that he came back off of vacation but he hasn`t gone to Ferguson.
If you listen to all of these news reports, you would think that this guy
was near-death. He was badly beaten, he was almost unconscious.
For more let me bring Brown family Attorney Daryl Parks and also Ring of
Fire radio host and America`s Attorney Mike Papantonio who`s a former
president of the National Trial Lawyers Association. Gentlemen thanks for
your time tonight. Mr. Parks you first, what is happening in the media
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, they continue to really distort
it. You know, it is funny you mentioned Fox, I will know yesterday. And
they asked me about this -- they started to mention about this so-called
eye injury that may have taken place. And, let me be the first to say that
there`s certainly was some type of altercation within the car that happened
And -- but I think this is a distraction from the real situation. The real
deal is that happened in the car and Michael Brown run away, this officer
got out of the car and then get out to shot him as he away when there was
no apparent threat. So I think we have to watch them because they`re going
to continue to throw little kid (ph) that`s out there, of things that has
nothing to do with the ultimate matter which is when he got out of the car
and started the shoot.
So, this alleged eye injury, maybe, maybe not, who`s to say? But
certainly, it does nothing to say to that this -- when at the time of the
shooting that that threat still exist.
SCHULTZ: Pap, does it seem to you that the conservative media is making a
defense case for the officer?
MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE RADIO: They are. They`re making a defense
case if you think about it for the grand jury. Really, these are the kinds
of things that you`re going to hear this prosecutor talk about in front of
the grand jury. Understand, in front of the grand jury, some of the
material that he talks about may not even be admissible in trial, that`s
what everybody is missing here.
Here say sometimes comes, and all types of things come before that grand
jury. And what bothers me the most Ed, here is there`s no special set of
rules for the use of deadly force that can`t be synthesize down to
subjective analysis, the officer`s best call under the circumstances,
that`s what this prosecutor is going to be arguing to this grand jury.
That`s what I`m most concerned about.
And what this grand jury is going to be presented with, if this Prosecutor
McCulloch wants this case to either go away or be minimized, the
presentation to the grand jury is going to be the prosecutor, wants the
case to go away and he`s going to do it in real settle kind of ways. He`s
going to tell them, that a struggle took place in the cabin of the patrol
car, and that the area is considered as zone of protection, that`s the term
they us for a police officer`s patrol car.
What that does Ed is it heightens the officer`s ability to use deadly force
at that point. Then if there`s a struggle at that point, the police --
there`s a felony that`s taken place. And when that felony takes place
within that zone of protection, everything starts to escalate and those are
the type of things that this prosecutor is going to be able to argue.
Now these things that you`re talking about, this is all extra. If you add
a bad eye or you add some type bruises that they`re able to talk about,
this thing then becomes something that this prosecutor almost can`t miss
with if he wants this case to go away. Understand these news articles,
it`s arming him and it`s arming this grand jury. In some of the...
PAPANTONIO: ... material he presents doesn`t even have to be admissible in
SCHULTZ: Mr. Parks, how can a man be beaten badly? How can a man be
beaten and described as almost unconscious but yet be able to get out of
the car and shoot straight?
PARKS: Well, also too, he didn`t quite shoot straight thought Ed, from
what we could tell from the witnesses. He did miss a lot. But let me say
this here thought, I think that the video tape -- and I assume you showed
the tape that shows two officers standing outside, they`re currently
talking with one another, one actually I think -- I recall a man had his
hands in his hips or something, and they just seem to be waiting around,
talking. He doesn`t appear to the holding his eye, doesn`t appear to be in
any type of distress. He seems to be just kind of waiting to see what`s
going to happen next. It doesn`t appear that he would have -- he`s having
any type if ailment, physical distress, anything of that sort that would
indicate that he`s having some...
PARKS: ... type of medical issue. So I think...
SCHULTZ: Wouldn`t those -- Mr. Parks, wouldn`t those officers on the scene
know whether their colleague had suffered an injury? They become key to
the grand jury.
PARKS: Well, but -- even better that them know. I think the fact that we
have a tape, you know, a video is so powerful. And that people get to look
at him and see him for a pretty good amount of time as he stands there.
And so you get to judge his demeanor, his appearance for yourself rather
than what someone else is trying to describe to you using their own words.
SCHULTZ: Mike, when you take a look at this video tape, it doesn`t look
like any other cops are injured. And we don`t know if any of these police
officers here are Darren Wilson. Shouldn`t federal investigators be able
to get to the bottom of this quickly as to whether there was an officer on
the scene who was injured and have the description of injuries that the
news media is reporting?
PAPANTONIO: Ed, the best thing about having those federal investigators
there is this sounds ridiculously cynical to somebody who doesn`t do what I
do or what Daryl Parks does. We see it all the time. And that is, you
have policemen that will create testimony. They will create story lines
and narratives that are so far from the truth, that the only way you can do
that is somehow to hold them responsible. These videos, they`ll do that,
the truth comes out and the truth comes in the videos and hopefully the
truth, some to the truth comes out in the forensic evidence.
But the most important thing about those federals being there is that it
makes it more difficult for these policemen and these investigators and
possible this prosecutor to tweak a case that goes away simply because a
PAPANTONIO: ... witness statement is tweaked or forensics are tweaked.
PAPANTONIO: So I`m glad to see the federals there.
SCHULTZ: So Mr. Parks, the release of the convenient store video, that of
course was greatly critiqued by many people as far as the timing is
concerned. But I notice that the conservative media is willing to accept
this but they`re not willing to come out and demand that these pictures, if
there are pictures of Wilson`s injury. What do you make of that?
PARKS: I have to agree.
SCHULTZ: I mean this is selective release of information. They`re out
making the case, it wasn`t until days after that we heard that the police
officer was injured, and now we can`t get any pictures but we can sure get
video tape of the kid who is in the store.
PARKS: Well, without a questions Ed, I think that we see that they have
made a decision that whatever they can do to put this victim, Michael Brown
in negative light, they are going to do and continue to do. So we are not
surprise by this strategy, it`s an attempt to get away from the real person
and act on a situation who is the officer who shot Michael Brown and he has
shot at him as Michael continued to run away.
Now, they`re going to continue to try and blame the victim. And I think
for once, we all should stand up for the victim in this case. And if
nothing else, to Michael Brown, who is dead, we owe the truth. And
unfortunately, there are many out there who will continue to distract from
the truth that we have in this case. So -- But we`re going to continue to
fight for his legacy, continue to make sure that the truth comes out,
obviously as we know what is put on the post domain doesn`t matter...
PARKS: ... and we`re going to fight to make sure that the truth gets out.
SCHULTZ: But Mike is it going to be terribly important to talk to those
other officers on the scene?
PAPANTONIO: Yeah, I think what -- I think...
SCHULTZ: I mean, that is vital, is it not?
PAPANTONIO: That will happen. The main thing is embrace the facts you
have -- look if there are bruises on the police officer, so be it. Embrace
the defense and I`m sure Daryl Parks...
PAPANTONIO: ... will do the same thing, embrace those facts, go forward
with them. This case is -- it`s going to be an out kill battle because of
what the police officer`s investigators do here, no question about it.
SCHULTZ: And the prosecutor is saying that this grand jury may go into
mid-October. Mike, why?
PAPANTONIO: Well, I mean the best -- that`s they`re best argument is that
we look at everything. Should it have to go into mid-October? No. In
fact this prosecutor -- the reason I keep coming back to this, I know you
know the story, this prosecutor, in the year 2000, two young men were shot
21 times as they sat in their car, they had drugs less than three ounces of
drugs. This prosecutor took it to the grand jury, the grand jury said,
that`s perfectly fine. Why did that happen, because this prosecutor
started off with a preconceive notion of what he wanted to do.
Twenty-one shots were fired into these young men and the grand jury comes
back and says, "That`s perfectly fine". And -- so the problem that
develops here is right in front of us and that is this prosecutor and his
team is already in front of the grand jury. Nixon needs to man up and stop
PAPANTONIO: ... now, because if it goes bad, it`s going to go really bad
for Ferguson, possible the entire country, their ramifications to what
happens there in Ferguson.
SCHULTZ: All right, gentlemen, thanks so much for you time tonight. Daryl
Parks, Mike Papantonio, thanks for being on the Ed Show again.
Coming up, what the murder of James Foley means for U.S. operations in
Iraq. But first new developments out of Ferguson. We will talk to Saint
Louise Alderman Antonio French. Keep it here, we`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Each night I`ve seen turning point. Each night I`ve seen small
steps, and sometimes those small steps are hard to see but I know small
turn into big steps. And so I`ve been -- we`ve been taking small steps
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And we are back. Earlier today, Governor Jay Nixon ordered the
Missouri National Guard to begin withdrawing from Ferguson, citing the
improve situation on the ground. This comes after a second night of mostly
calm protest. Every rain and lighting had protesters taking cover for part
of the night. Six arrests were reported over the night and there was only
one reported incident of a bottle being thrown at police.
There were some tense moments on those two supporters of the Police Officer
Darren Wilson march into the crowd. According to reports, protesters
gathered around them and after a water bottle was thrown police surrounded
a couple and drove them away from the scene.
As the protests dwindle, the investigation into the death of Michael Brown
has ramping up. Attorney General Eric Holder says the Justice Department
will keep their focus on Ferguson and law enforcement tactics even after
the media moves on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL.: My commitment to them is that, long after
this tragic story no longer receives this level of attention. The Justice
Department will continue to stand with Ferguson. We will continue the
conversation this incident has sparked about the need for trust building
between law enforcement officers and the communities that they serve.
About the appropriate use of force and the need to ensure fair and equal
treatment for everyone who comes in to contact with the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight on the Ed Show, St. Louis Alderman Antonio
French. Mr. French, good to have you with us. You have been down at the
activities and the protest that have unfolded in recent days. What`s
different in the last 48 hours from what you can see?
ANTONIO FRENCH, ST. LOUIS ALDERMAN: Well, we`ve had two peaceful nights in
a row. We haven`t had that on a long time. And I think folks have really
been fatigue from all of the violence and the conflicts in the streets, and
they`re happy to have a couple of nights of peace. I spend most of this
morning at the local library here that`s been turned into a makeshifts
school. School has been out, not a class in Alderman in a session since
this conflict has been going on.
So, people are eager to get their kids back in school and get back to some
kind of normalcy.
SCHULTZ: Did the attorney general`s visit in Ferguson make a difference?
Did it have an impact? Is this the result of his visit?
FRENCH: I think it is. I think the central issue here is that people had
really lost faith in the justice system. I think a lot of the violence you
saw was that people felt that they were not getting any recourse out of the
local jurisdiction or the county jurisdiction. And so I think it does make
a difference to have the federal government take an interest. And for the
attorney general that come here personally shows that it is on top of his
SCHULTZ: What is your response and what is the response of the people in
the community from what you could see of some of the reporting that`s going
on saying that there was an eye socket theory of an injury that the officer
was badly beaten that he was nearly unconscious?
FRENCH: Yeah. You know, I think one of the really missteps in this whole
thing is how the local authorities have slowly released information at
their convenience, which is really at times served to almost incite more
conflict. So, if that is true, I think they should release pictures and
maybe medical evidence showing it`s true.
But at the end of the day, what we really need to do is start the process
of bringing about justice and that`s a trial. And so, we continue to call
on the governor to remove the local county prosecutor who is taking this
long step of calling a grand jury that he now says may last until October,
and frankly for those on the ground it`s going to be tough to keep the
peace until October.
SCHULTZ: You think it`s going to be hard to keep the peace until mid
October because that`s what the prosecutor said. That`s how long this
grand jury process may take place. Do you think it`s going to be hard...
SCHULTZ: ... to control people that long?
FRENCH: I do and I don`t think it`s necessary. I think there was at least
enough evidence just has been released to warrant him to give an indictment
and start the process of a trial, which is not to at all predetermine the
officer`s guilt, but there should be a trial. And let the jury decide, and
I think that`s what the people want.
And for him to drag this on to October, I think he`s endangering public
safety, and I don`t think he really has a handle on what the situation is
down here. It`s going to be very tough to keep everybody calm until
SCHULTZ: Close to 30,000 signatures have been delivered in the petition to
remove this prosecutor. And.
SCHULTZ: . do you think that that has had any impact at all on the
FRENCH: I hope so. I know that has said that he would not replace Mr.
McCulloch, but I really hope that he reconsiders that, given...
SCHULTZ: Well, now that the grand jury is underway it would seem like he
would not replace the prosecutor. I mean now that the grand jury has begun
FRENCH: Well, even the county prosecutor went on local radio here
yesterday and said that, you know, if the governor has going to do and he
needs to do it sooner than later. And I agree with that, the governor
needs to do it sooner than later.
SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight. Mr. French I appreciate your
time. I hope the healing continues. It looks like we`re in the right
direction. I know that the weather there is playing a big factor. Give us
an idea what kind of weekend you think it`s going to be this protest in
triple digit temperatures that are expected over the weekend?
FRENCH: Yeah. It is very hot right here, right now, but what we`re trying
to do is now that we have some peace, we`re trying to start the process of
healing. We started the group called the Heal STL (ph). We`re running
storefront right down here on West Florissant, kind of the ground zero.
We`re going to start this weekend to register everybody in Florissant, in
Ferguson that we can and try to get them active politically because that`s
ultimately what`s going to solve these problems out here.
SCHULTZ: All right, city alderman from St. Louis Antonio French. Thanks
for joining us tonight.
Coming up, new air strikes in Iraq despite the threats from ISIS. Plus, in
a time of crisis President Obama`s critics, call out the fashion police.
Your question is next, Ask Ed Live coming up on the Ed Show on MSNBC.
We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: Thanks for us tonight. I love hearing from all of you. I
appreciate the questions in our Ask Ed Live segment. Our first question
comes from Gary (ph) tonight. He want to know, well this is a dandy. "Do
you think the right-wingers such as Limbaugh, Savage, and Hannity are born
pathological liars and truth benders, or do they choose to be?"
I`m not smart enough to figure out how they were born, OK? Or what they
have been thinking since birth, or whether if there`s anything wrong with
them. I would just say that we know for a fact that they make stuff up.
And we know for a fact that they package their information to fit their
ideology in a very negative fashion to anyone who opposes them. Let`s put
it that way. They are truth benders, no doubt.
Our next question is from Harry. He wants to know, "Why hasn`t the man on
the overpass been arrested for pointing a weapon at federal agents during
the Bundy standoff?" Oh yeah. OK. That`s the picture. Let me tell you
something, we have had more response to this picture. This is very
troubling to people. This guy is not in an official capacity. He`s an
American citizen with the firearm and he has somebody out here we don`t
know who but he`s got somebody in the cross hairs.
I don`t know if he`s breaking the law or not. I don`t know the law on
that. I don`t know the Nevada law on this. I don`t know the federal law
on this. But don`t you think it rather unusual that an American citizen
would be so motivated to take his firearm and line up and put somebody in
the cross airs for what? Who the hell is he? Certainly not a person in
A lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stay with us.
JOSH LIPTON, CNBC MARKET WRAP: I`m Josh Lipton with you CNBC Market wrap.
The Dow jumped 60 points, the S&P added 5, the NASDAQ also up 5.
A sign the labor market is improving, few Americans applied for first time
unemployment benefits last week. Jobless claims feel by 14,000. The
average rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage hit a 53-weel low, dropping to
4.1 percent last week. And AAA expects 34.7 million Americans will travel
this Labor Day weekend. Meantime, gas is cheaper this holiday weekends
than last, at $3.44 a gallon.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. ISIS called a brutal murder of
American journalist James Foley, an active retaliation for U.S. air strikes
in Iraq. ISIS demanded the air strikes stop or Steven Sotloff, another
American journalist will be killed. Now, we`re learning until the air
strikes begun last month, ISIS had a very different demand, a ransom
payment of a 100 million Euro or roughly $132 million. The United States
refused to pay following the policy of not making concessions to terrorist
and not paying ransoms.
However, U.S. officials tell us NBC news -- tell NBC news, President Obama
did authorize a rescue mission earlier this summer. U.S. troops were sent
in to Syria in an attempt to retrieve Foley and other American hostages
held by ISIS militants. U.S. fighter jets provided cover for special
operation forces and helicopters as they swarmed the compound in Syria.
Intelligence agencies believe that they had identified the location where
the hostages were being held.
Special Ops. engaged in a gun battle with ISIS forces and quickly
determined the hostages were not actually there. On Wednesday, President
Obama said the United States will be relentless against ISIS in the wake of
Foley`s murder. That same day, U.S. military announced, 14 more air
strikes in northern Iraq. Official say the military is now considering
sending an additional 300 troops to the region.
ISIS committed a barbaric active terrorism against the American citizen,
and certainly we have an obligation to see that justice is done. But many
are wondering just what this means moving forward in Iraq. More troops and
what will the air strikes do? And what kind of involvement will congress
have on this?
I`m joined tonight by Congresswoman Barbara Lee of California who did vote
against military force in Iraq some years ago. Congresswoman I appreciate
your time tonight. In the wake of the beheading of an American journalist
and a threat to do it again, what do you see as the proper response here in
the handling of this situation?
REP. BARBARA LEE, (D) CALIFORNIA: Ed, certainly this brutal and barbaric
murder of Mr. Foley really demonstrates just how dangerous ISIS is, and
first my thoughts and prayers and my sympathy goes out to Mr. Foley`s
family and friends. This is something that is mind boggling and heartbreak
to the entire world really. I think what we need to really -- realize Ed
is that, first of all, many of us supported limited and targeted air
strikes to prevent genocide and to protect United States personnel in Iraq.
Any further military escalation I believe and I know Congressman McGovern
and Congressman Jones, we passed the resolution last month saying that any
escalation of military activity should be brought to congress and we should
engage in a full debate and a vote. There are many of us -- I voted
against the 2001 authorization. This was right after the horrific events
LEE: That was a blind check that gave authority to any president to use
force in perpetuity forever, unless we go back and repeal that. I firmly
believe we need to repeal these authorizations, go back to the drawing
board with the most current information, and let congress decide. We have
a constitutional responsibility to do that.
SCHULTZ: Well, it is documented that ISIS has committed atrocities
parallel that of the nazis. And there is no question that ISIS it is going
to kill more people if we don`t intervene here in a big way. Do you agree
with the president in the stepped up air strikes that we`re doing right
LEE: Well, let me say it, these air strikes continue to escalate and we
recognize that ISIS is very dangerous. And the president has always said
however that there`s no military solution and that we need to really look
at how we really deal with ISIS in a way that makes sense, and that
prevents further acts of genocide in furthered murders and killings. I
believe and I think others believe that we have to have this debate in
congress. And we need to come up with our -- and the American people
really have to have their input.
There were weary Ed, and so yes we have to figure out a real way to address
ISIS, but we have to do this within the context of our constitutional
responsibilities and duty. And that means we have to have a debate and
have a vote in congress with regard to any further military escalation.
SCHULTZ: Do you -- well, sending possibly 300 more troops is some form of
escalation or would that be just considered an isolated operation in your
LEE: In my opinion, this is further escalation, I`ve always said I`m very
careful and cautious and vigilant about what we called mission creep,
further escalation. And I think the president though has been very
strategic, very proven in how he has handled this. But I also know that we
have to engage congress more.
The president has under the War Powers Act submitted, congressional
notification, you know, he has done everything appropriately. But I also
believe we`re getting to that point now where this is becoming a further
military escalation and that the American people need to have their members
of congress in Washington debating this and going forward with the vote.
SCHULTZ: The United States and the United Kingdom refused pay ransoms
according to the New York Times. Other European countries have paid Al-
Qaeda and its affiliate to $125 million in ransom payments, I guess over
the last five years. What do you think should be done to address this
difference in policy? This discrepancy in policy which puts American lives
at a greater risk and I guess even further to the point. Do you believe
that this country should pay a ransom to get hostages back?
LEE: Well, let me -- first of all, ransom is one tool in a toolbox that
president has of all kinds of national securities, strategies that he may
or may not use. I think it`s very important that we have our policy
consistent with Europe and with other nations in the world because if one
country or two countries pay ransom and other countries don`t, we put
Americans and others in endanger of being abducted.
Also the ransom policy, I believe begun under the -- the no ransom policy
begun under the Bush administration, part of this that had to do with
preventing terrorism from becoming wealthy and they`re breaking up many of
their financial network. So this is a very complicated issue but it
certainly has to be dealt with an address and the issue of ransom, I
believe should -- will only work paying or not paying ransom if in fact
America and our European allies are in sync and in coordination with one
SCHULTZ: Congressman does it trouble you, the stories coming out about how
well-funded, how well-organized, and how strong ISIS is? A threat unlike
we have seen in the past, stronger than Al-Qaeda and certainly more driven
ideologically? Does that trouble you or does that change the dynamic in
how you view any of this?
LEE: I do.
SCHULTZ: You just wanted to go to congress, it sounds like.
LEE: No, no, no. I feel ISIS is very dangerous. I think the attorney
general, the president, everyone understand that this is a very dangerous
organization well-finance, well-funded. It`s a terrorist group and we have
seen what they have done. I believe the facts of ISIS and other groups
around the world that are perpetrating this kind of mayhem around the
We need to have in congress a debate, and we have to know the fact Ed, we
need to know what the national security threats really are to the United
States and to other. And we need to know what military strikes will or
will not accomplish. And in fact, if there is a non-military solution, I
mean Iraqis and the region have to come to grips (ph). And I believe
they`re on the path now to finding political settlement to many of the very
major underlying difficulties that have given rise to all of this.
But I do believe that we have to recognize that ISIS is dangerous, they`re
brutal, and we have to have a debate so that the American people understand
what the possibilities are in terms of our strategies, and I`m very concern
though that the escalation of military strikes will insert the United
States into a conflict where we may or may not need to be.
LEE: . but any further action should be brought to congress immediate.
SCHULTZ: Congresswoman Barbara Lee, thank you for your time tonight, I
appreciate it very much.
Up next, our friends across the street have short memories as they
criticized President Obama`s fashion choices. Keep it here.
SCHULTZ: Lot of negative stories coming out in Ferguson Missouri right now
but one NFL Hall of Famer is trying to bring some positivity to his home
town. Aeneas Williams played for the St. Louis Rams for four seasons and
turned into a regular home town guy. Following his football career,
Williams became a pastor in the community.
He says he is hoping to bring Ferguson`s youth together as they move
forward from this crisis. He`s no drop-in from St. Louis. This is his
community Aeneas Williams will join us tomorrow to tell us what he`s doing
to help Ferguson recover. Keep it here. You`re watching the Ed Show on
SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, President Obama delivered strong words
against ISIL after he learned of James Foley`s murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The
United States of America will continue to do what we must do to protect our
people. We will be vigilant and we will be relentless. When people harm
Americans anywhere, we do what`s necessary to see the justice is done and
we act against ISIL standing along side others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, as an American who can argue with that? Fox News came out
of the gate with criticism. They targeted the president`s wardrobe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I wish he`d put on a tie and
we should show enough respect to do that. Stand at the podium and do that.
Really, that gets me fired up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And of course Fox news Anchor Greta Van Susteren raise to her
blog and jumped o the bandwagon and she wrote, "I am all for casual
clothes, but he is the president of the Untied States and he is talking
about a beheading of an American, not the annual Easter egg roll. Put on a
Fox News needs a remind her of the last Commander in Chief. President
George W. Bush, didn`t see the need to step away from the links to talk
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOERGE W. BUSH, 43RD U.S. PRESIDENT: Good morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning Mr. President.
BUSH: We must stop the terror. I call upon all nations to do everything
they can to stop these terrorist killing. Thank you, now watch this drive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So pay less attention to what President Obama is wearing around
his neck and start listening to what`s coming out of his mouth. The
president is active in air strikes to stop this vicious group and to stop
other war. Should the president put on the flight jacket when he orders
and air strike?
Joining me now is Eric Boehlert senior fellow at Media Matters. Good to
have you with us tonight. This is the bottom of the barrels, isn`t it?
ERIC BOEHLERT, MEDIA MATTERS SENIOR WRITER: Every time we talk we think
we`ve been at the bottom of the barrel. You know, this is just sort of
this contentious shallow media sort of theater criticism, right? He
doesn`t look right. You know, his wardrobe is wrong. You know, this is
six years in and we`re talking about his vacations.
Do a quick Google. Every summer is the summer Obama definitely should not
take a vacation. We go to this new cycle all the time, and of course with
Fox it just gets more and more deranged every year. How do you look at the
news of a decapitation and runs your blog and talk about wardrobe. How is
Obama the bad guy in this story?
I mean it`s just sort of boggles your mind. But they are so deep into the
contempt into the lecturing, he doesn`t really understand tradition. He
doesn`t really understand American patriotism or the troops and things like
that. Greta should be ashamed of herself but I don`t think there`s any
threshold over there for shame anymore (ph).
SCHULTZ: It`s just really searching for just anything...
SCHULTZ: . to take the guy down.
BOEHLERT: Nothing to do with politics (ph).
SCHULTZ: And it`s just like we get the war on Christmas every year, you
know, and so now, we get the war on vacations, I suppose.
BOEHLERT: Yeah, correct.
SCHULTZ: Anything he does. Is there anything he can`t do with vacation
that would satisfy them? Sean Hannity last night, he should have gone
right to the situation room or to the war room.
SCHULTZ: Does attire matter?
SCHULTZ: I mean, does it?
BOEHLERT: No, it doesn`t. And again, where is the evidence in terms of
this vacation debate that Obama hasn`t been able to meet with the advisers
he needs, doesn`t have access to the intelligence that he needs. Of course
there`s no evidence that, you know, the vacation has interrupted his
The only famous blunder I remember from a vacation is when George Bush and
his team slept walked through the intelligence boarding, Bin Laden
determine the strike in the U.S. that happened in august. That was during
a five-week Bush vacation. Ronald Reagan used to take five-week summer
vacations. I don`t know (ph) if President Obama did that.
SCHULTZ: Does this -- I don`t even know. Does this president play more
golf than anybody else ever played in this position? I mean if you think
that that`s all the guy does, just teeing up every morning at the Country
Club at 8:00?
BOEHLERT: Someone is keeping track. I know for a fact, he`s taking about
a third of the vacation time than the President Bush did. When President
Bush left office, if you look at his ranch time, his vacation time, in his
Camp David time, he`s spent over 900 days away from the White House. I
mean you talk about phoning it in.
SCHULTZ: But he got a fox machine down there in Crawford. Remember that?
Karen Hughes is coming over we`re going to be working on some initiatives.
The fact here is, is that this president doesn`t vacation anywhere near as
much as previous president, correct?
BOEHLERT: Correct. He doesn`t, and its idea that he`s not up to the job
and things like that. And again, this is part of the larger Fox discussion
about he`s not really like us. He`s not like other president. He doesn`t
really understand the responsibility. I mean let`s not forget Fox when
went all in on a further (ph) stuff. We can connect the dots to all of
this allegation is nonsense and it sort of contentious, you know, theater
criticism they do.
SCHULTZ: So who plays more golf? President Obama or John Boehner, Speaker
of the House?
BOEHLERT: Boehner was bragging, he played a 100 rounds in one year.
SCHULTZ: Yeah, he did.
SCHULTZ: I don`t think Obama plays that.
BOEHLERT: I don`t think he did.
SCHULTZ: It`s unbelievable. Well, it just underscores that they`re going
to come after anything they possibly can.
BOEHLERT: Yeah and incredibly shallow stupid something.
BOEHLERT: Like neckties, come on.
SCHULTZ: Eric Boehlert, good to have you with us, senior fellow Media
Matters with us tonight here on the Ed Show.
That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.
PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>