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PoliticsNation, Friday, September 5th, 2014

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September 5, 2014

Guest: Corey Hebert; Jay Rollins, Emanuel Cleaver, Faith Jenkins, Eric

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Breaking news tonight on a mysterious
plane crash are. This small private plane plunged into the ocean about 14
miles off the coast of Jamaica this afternoon. The plane was flying
unresponsive for hours, causing two f-15s to tail it.

The Jamaica defense force found the wreckage field and dive teams are
refueling now, heading back to continue the search. No victims have been
found yet. It took off from Rochester, New York, bound for Florida. But
the question tonight is what happened. The two people on board, Larry
Glazer , a real estate developer and his wife, Jane. Their son confirmed
to CNBC that his parent were the only passengers on board.

Before the plane lost contact with air traffic control it did radio a
message, indicating a problem.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 900 Kilo November, we need to descend down to about
180. We have an indication that is not correct on the play.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 900 Kilo November descend and maintain level 250.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 250. We need to get lower, 900 Kilo November.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Working on that.


SHARPTON: The plane left Rochester, New York, at 8:45 this morning bound
for Naples, Florida, but never made the turn it was supposed to make.
Eventually, heading over Cuban air space where the f-15s peeled off. We
want to play for you some of the audio from those f-15 pilots observing the
unconscious passengers that were on board.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see his chest rising and falling. Right before I
left it was the first time I could see he was actually breathing. And it
may be a deal where depending on how fast they descend he may regain
consciousness once the aircraft starts descending for fuel.


SHARPTON: It`s believed the two passengers lost consciousness, potentially
due to the depressurization or a condition known as hypoxia. At 1:30 p.m.,
the plane was still in the air. We sped (ph) this up the video so you can
see its course. It crashed around 2:5 p.m. more than four hours after air
traffic controllers lost contact with the pilot. Now, search for answers
has begun.

Joining me now, NBC correspondent Tom Costello. Tom, what can you tell us?

TOM COSTELLO, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you hit the highlights
here. What`s important is it does appear at this point that it was an
unresponsive pilot and perhaps an unresponsive crew, being his wife as
well. As you reported, the f-15s got up to that altitude 25,000 feet.
They reported that the windows were frosted over and that the pilot
appeared to be slumped over the controls.

That would be consistent with what we have heard is a possible state of
hypoxia. That`s when you have air pressurization, a loss of pressurization
in the cabin. What happens is there is an initial feeling of euphoria but
then very quickly you begin to lose your cognitive abilities, you lose
consciousness and then ultimately if you don`t immediately correct the
situation, people can die.

So what happened here, it appears at 10:04 a.m., the pilot contacted
Atlanta controllers. And as you heard said, I need to get down. He
initially said, I need to get down to 18,000 feet. Ideally, you want to
get below 15,000 feet, even below 10,000 feet in order to have to be able
to breathe air. In other words, without needing your cabin to be
pressurized. So for whatever reason that didn`t happen.

SHARPTON: So by him saying that, you`re suggesting that maybe the problem
that he was phoning in or calling in was based on the fact that he was too
high and that they were dealing with depressurization or even maybe

COSTELLO: Yes, that`s right. We know that he said we have an indication
light that`s not right. He never indicated beyond what it is. And we know
that he was at about 25,000 feet at that point. Well, that`s a very high
altitude. And that very quickly, hypoxia will set in.

So what the leading theory is, that in fact, they lost consciousness. The
f-15s tried to intercept off the east coast of the United States. The
plane, as you saw, kept flying in a straight line right over Cuba. The
Cubans sent a fighter jet up. They determined it was some sort medical
emergency and that the pilot was unresponsive. They didn`t shoot down the
plane. Keep in mind in the late `90s the Cubans shot down two private
planes. The plane flew right over Cuban air space. They were
communicating with the Americans all the time. Everybody on the same, you
know, the same level of here believing that this was a medical event. Then
the plane apparently ran out of fuel 14 miles short of Jamaica. The
Jamaican authorities reporting tonight that they have spotted wreckage but
no survivors. We would not expect survivors if this plane was at altitude
25,000 feet all the way until the end, until it ran out of fuel. Chances
are, according to the experts we talked to, nobody was alive on the plane
before it then descended into the ocean.

SHARPTON: What are the open questions for you? What do you want to hear,

COSTELLO: Well, I think, you know, we may never know for sure that this
was hypoxia because, of course, the plane obliterated on impact, right? So
investigators might try to get those black boxes, if there are black boxes.
I don`t even know if on that particular private small plane whether they
have a flight data recorder that would record the parameters of whether
they have a problem with the cabin pressure.

If they did, though, they would look for that information to determine
whether there was a loss of pressure. And then you have to figure out why.
It could be anything from a problem with the engine. Keep in mind the
engine feeds the system that keeps the cabin pressurize. It could be a
simple as a seal around a window or door that`s not properly sealed. There
may be a leak of some sort. It could be insidious. Something that`s
really a slow event. And then, finally caught up with them and they were
unable to recover.

I suspect that, had the pilots said to air traffic controllers, I am losing
air pressure, I`m losing cabin pressure, I need to get down now, that they
would have expedited it. But all he said is, I have a warning light that
doesn`t look right. I need to get lower. And they said, OK, take it down
to 25. And then he was saying, I need to get lower. They didn`t say get
down to 15 right now. So we will have to see how those all shakes out in
the investigation.

SHARPTON: All right, Tom, thank you very much for your time tonight. Tom

COSTELLO: You bet.

SHARPTON: Joining me now are former American airlines pilot and retired
U.S. naval aviator Jay Rollins and Dr. Corey Hebert, professor at LSU
health sciences center. Thank you for being here tonight.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Jay, what do you think could have happened here?

JAY ROLLINS, RETIRED U.S. NAVAL AVIATOR: I think that Tom is right on the
money that it is most likely a pressurization failure. There was a fault.
It is conceivable that there could have been some sort of fumes in the
cockpit. But most likely there was some sort of a pressurization failure
that probably crept along. It came up slowly and the crew, the captain or
his wife didn`t become aware of it in time. And when they started talking
a little bit strange to say they wanted to descend to some altitude other
than 10,000 feet or any doubt about the fact that there was a
pressurization failure, specifically what the problem was and that there
was a light that they didn`t believe in, all of that suggests to me that
they may have already been suffering from hypoxia at that moment.

SHARPTON: Doctor, explain to me hypoxia. I mean, it`s defined as an
adequate oxygen supply to the cells and tissues of the body. Break that
down for me.

will tell you this, It`s very simple. Without oxygen, you cannot live.
It is incompatible with life. Because what happens is oxygen is needed for
all bio synthetic and biologic processes. So once you don`t have oxygen,
your blood ph which is supposedly to be around 7.4 will start to drop
precipitously and we are talking about minutes, not hours.

And the crazy part about this is that I have actually been on a plane
before where this happened. And they had a leaky window and nobody knew.
But started feeling that euphoria like Tom talked about. And once I
started feeling it, I looked down and I saw that my nail beds were a little
bit blue. And I said, something`s not right. I talked to the flight
attendant. She talked to the pilot. The pilot wasn`t aware because the
warning system wasn`t working on that particular plane. So we
automatically dropped to 10,000 feet. Everybody was OK. But without
adequate medical training, there is no way those two passengers ever could
have known to look for that. By the time they looked for it, it`s too

SHARPTON: So you actually went through this experience yourself but were
able to catch it.

HERBERT: Yes. But that is only because I`m a trained physician. So that
is why I tell my patients, all my family and friends, you need to know the
signs of hypoxia. And anything, what would that be? You have a feeling of
euphoria or feeling of giddiness, then you get nausea, you get fatigue, you
get vomiting. And at that point it`s basically too late and then you pass
out. When you pass out, unless you fall immediately to an area where you
could actually be at 10,000 feet where you can get oxygen, you really
cannot come back. You just can`t. And that`s really sad, but that

SHARPTON: Jay, let me go back to you. I want to play again the radio
communication between the plane and air traffic control. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 900 Kilo November we need to descend down to about 180.
We have an indication that`s not correct on the plane.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 250. We need to get lower. 900 Kilo November.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Working on that.


SHARPTON: We have an indication that`s not correct on the plane. That`s
what he is saying. Tell us as a pilot what could be going on here.

ROLLINS: Well, it is tepid response. He should be declaring an emergency
and requiring a descent down to 10,000. By suggesting that he has any
time, the controller didn`t even clear him down to 18,000 that he requested
but only 25,000 feet. If he made it clear that he was in jeopardy and it
was an emergency, they would have cleared him for any descend that was

SHARPTON: So you`re saying that the pilot should have been a little more
aggressive in his description of what he was going through at that point?

ROLLINS: Well, that`s what makes me think that he may have already been
suffering hypoxia. Because if you thought you had a pressurization
failure, you would have been more aggressive about getting down knowing
that you were in jeopardy, that the aircraft was in jeopardy.

SHARPTON: Now let me ask you something, Dr. Hebert quickly. Back to
hypoxia in which you said you experienced yourself. Is there pain or do
you just go out, you just blank out?

HERBERT: Well, the thing that I would like to just say really quickly
about that is that I totally agree with everyone that they have said
earlier. You know, that pilot probably experienced a cognitive issue so
that he could not make great decisions because he was hypoxic.

You can experience pain right before you pass out. But more than likely
you pass out before you experience pain which makes us all feel a lot
better about what happened today even though there is no way that we could
ever think that this could happen to us. I mean, it`s just a really bad
situation. But he made a bad decision because he was probably already
cognitively impaired.

SHARPTON: All right, I`m going to have to leave it there. Jay Rollins and
Dr. Corey Hebert, thank you both for your time this evening.

HERBERT: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: Coming up, more breaking news tonight. A plane with as many as
100 Americans on board has been grounded in southern Iran. More on that

Plus developing news tonight on how America deals with the terror group
ISIS. President Obama made some news today on the plan ahead.

Plus, is it game on? What are Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush saying today?

And the dad who left his son in a hot car is charged with murder. But new
questions surround the mother tonight. The justice files is ahead.


SHARPTON: We`re back with more breaking news. A plane with as many as 100
Americans on board has been grounded in southern Iran. The plane was en
route from Bagram air base in Afghanistan to Dubai. And when it entered
Iranian air space, air traffic controllers in Iran ordered the plane to
land or Iranian fighter jets would be scrambled to force it down.

The pilot voluntarily landed. The plane is a chartered flight used to
ferry contractors between Afghanistan and Dubai. NBC News reports the
plane left Bagram three hours late but didn`t re-file a flight plan with
Iran. The passengers may now have to stay on the ground for a day or two
before they are permitted to take off and continue to Dubai. We`ll have
more on this story as it develops.


SHARPTON: President Obama on his way home from the NATO summit in Wales
where he made it clear the terrorist group ISIS has to go.


that we have to act as part of the international community to degrade and
ultimately destroy ISIL. You can`t contain an organization that is running
roughshod through that much territory causing that much havoc, displacing
that many people, killing that many innocents, and enslaving that many
women. The goal has to be to dismantle them. We are steadily moving in
the right direction. And we are going to achieve our goal. We are going
to degrade and ultimately defeat ISIL.


SHARPTON: President Obama stressed once again that he will not put U.S.
troops on the ground. But with a coalition of international partners the
U.S. will provide assistance to the forces fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

Secretary of state John Kerry traveled to the Middle East today to meet
with regional leaders about joining that coalition. American forces have
already carried out 131 air strikes on ISIS targets in Iraq, just since
August 8th.

And today, the president compared destroying ISIS to wiping out al-Qaeda.


OBAMA: The same way we have gone after al-Qaeda. The same way we have
gone after the al-Qaeda affiliate in Somalia, you initially push them back.
You systematically degrade their capabilities, you narrow their scope of
action. You slowly shrink the space, the territory they may control. You
take out their leadership. And over time, they are not able to conduct the
same kind of terrorist attacks as they once could.

SHARPTON: The president beginning a step-by-step approach for the U.S. and
it allies to stop this terrorist group in its tracks. Without putting
boots on the ground halfway around the world. Joining me now is MSNBC
military analyst colonel Jack Jacobs and E.J. Dionne of the Washington
Post. Thank you both for being here.


SHARPTON: E.J., let me go to you first. It is clear the president is
going to move forward with some kind of strong military action. Is that
how you have heard it?

DIONNE: Yes. I think, in fact, he was as strong today as he`s been.
Chuck Todd pointed out earlier today that he`s been listening to his
critics. And he can learn from his critics. And his language -- degrade
and defeat, degrade and destroy. There were no caveats here. There were
no footnotes here.

And what he is saying is you can do this in a slow, steady way. His
critics act as if we are in the fourth quarter of a football game with two
minutes left. But I think his model and one of his heroes on foreign
policy is actually the first President Bush. And when you go back to what
the first President Bush did in Kuwait, he took months to build up
alliances, to build up our troops.

In this case the president won`t be building up troops. He`s trying to
find allies who will do it in cooperation with American airpower. But I
don`t think there wasn`t a doubt about his toughness today.

SHARPTON: Colonel Jacobs, what military action do you expect in this next

COL. JACK JACOBS, MSNBC MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it is going to get
pretty much more of the same, 131 strikes since 8th August, another 200,
300. Every time we see clusters of ISIS in assembly areas getting ready to
attack, counter attacking on the dam and northern Iraq. We`re just going
to bomb them. Every time our satellites see them in an assembly areas, see
them grouping, we are going to drop bombs on them.

What really going to happen, however, is that ultimately the Iraqi army has
to seize the terrain that`s freed up by these air strikes. And that may
take a while. You know, when the president said degrade and destroy, he
really meant destroy by degrading. And over time, that`s exactly what is
going to happen.

The real question is when or if, are we going to start bombing ISIS where
they really will be hurt. And that`s in Syria where they hang out. The
president does that. Then he`s on Assad`s side and it`s a very tough
political --

SHARPTON: That`s another can of worms that could be opened if they start
actually bombing in Syria.

JACOBS: But that will really hurt them if you take it. Once you degrade
them inside Iraq, you start pounding them inside Syria. That will degrade
and eliminate them militarily. But again, that`s a tough political
decision for the president to make.

SHARPTON: E.J., the president faced a lot of criticism for not
articulating a strategy to fight ISIS. You wrote about that this week
saying quote "the president`s critics at home should also step back. They
should stop pretending that careful, deliberate planning is a grievous sin
and acknowledge the high cost of impulsive action. When did caution become
a bad thing, E.J.?

DIONNE: I guess when President Obama started exercising it, you know. I
just think that there are critics of President Obama who are still fighting
him on the fact that he was against the Iraq war. And that he doesn`t
think it is a great idea to put a lot of American troops on the ground in
the Middle East again.

And so, I think this is connected to that other kind that broader political
argument. You know, in terms of Syria, the Colonel made a good point in
terms of going after ISIS in Syria and how that may end up being important.
I think what the president sounds like he`d like to do is try to strengthen
the free Syrian army so that when we -- if we attack ISIS in Syria that
will be replaced not by Assad`s group, but people against Assad could take
him on. But that`s a tall order. Because up to now, ISIS has been a lot
stronger than the free Syrian army.

SHARPTON: Going into Syria you raised it and E.J. picked up on it. Do
they have to do that? I mean, ultimately, is that where this have to go?

JACOBS: Yes. I think it is drifting that way. It is going to go east.
We will have to attack with air power. And we have ways to do that. ISIS
located in Syria. But we are also going to have to be very careful about
that when we do it. And we are going to have to have a lot more
international backing in order to do that. Troops on the ground, we got
troop on the ground in Iraq already, you know. We are training the Iraqi
army, the Peshmerga and so on. Troops on the ground in Syria, no way.

SHARPTON: Well, looked like he got a lot of that coalition, at least
commitment today in NATO, but we will see. Colonel Jack Jacobs and E.J.
Dionne, thank you both for your time tonight.

DIONNE: Good to be with you, Reverend. Have a good weekend.

SHARPTON: Same to both of you.

Still ahead, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush and a lot of new buzz tonight
about their plans for the future.

Also, will prosecutors seek the death penalty against the dad charged with
murder for leaving his baby boy in a hot car?


SHARPTON: Over six years ago Hillary Clinton suspended her presidential
campaign with this great speech.


shutter that highest, hardest glass ceiling this time, thanks to you it`s
got about 18 million cracks in it. And the light is shining through like
never before filling us all with the hope and the sure knowledge that the
path will be a little easier next time.


SHARPTON: And since then it seems everyone was wondering would there be a
next time for Hillary Clinton. So what did she say about this today in
Mexico? And what is former Florida governor Jeb Bush saying? Fasten your
seat belt. That news is coming up.


SHARPTON: Developing news tonight. An important report with good news for
potentially millions of Americans. And bad news for republican chicken
littles who thought the sky was falling on health care. A Kaiser survey of
top markets in 15 states and the District of Columbia shows insurance
premiums will actually drop next year by an average of just under one
percent. Now this is stunning. Insurance costs almost never fall --
never. But they will under ObamaCare next year despite all the huffing and
puffing we have seen from republicans.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Then you look at health insurance premiums. We
are seeing premiums skyrocket.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Health care costs have gone up. In fact, they are

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We are seeing their health care premiums skyrocket.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Health insurance here that is now skyrocketing.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Causing health care costs to skyrocket.


SHARPTON: Guess what. All those guys were wrong. And the president has
been proven right. He saw this coming a year ago.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Every time they have predicted
something not working, it`s worked.


I mean, they said that these rates would come in real high and everybody`s
premiums would be sky high. And it turns out lo and behold actually, the
prices came in lower than we expected. Lower than I predicted. That`s how
well competition and choice work.


SHARPTON: So now for republicans running in the midterms, the politics of
health care are changing. Mitch McConnell admits the Medicaid expansion in
Kentucky will last. Tom Cotton is refusing to take a position on Medicaid
expansion in Arkansas. And in New Hampshire, Scott Brown is trying to say
we should get rid of ObamaCare but keep all the good stuff in it.


FMR. SEN. SCOTT BROWN (R), MASSACHUSETTS: I believe states can do it
better. And they can certainly cover pre-existing conditions, covering
your kids to x-age, whatever you want. The catastrophic care, covering
those who need additional coverages.


SHARPTON: It`s clear what`s happening. Republicans still want to attack
the word ObamaCare. But they are twisting themselves up in knots trying to
avoid talking about what the law actually does to help millions of

Joining me now are Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, democrat from Missouri and
MSNBC`s Melissa Harris-Perry. Thank you both for joining me.


REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: Good to be with you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Congressman, do you think all these republican chicken littles
on health care looked outside today and realized the sky was still there?

CLEAVER: Well, I think many of them are slipping and sliding all around
the Affordable Care Act because they are trying to find a way to oppose it
where they don`t look foolish. And there is now way to do it because the
cost is dropping, it`s small at this point but still dropping. And I
think, you know, Reinhold Niebuhr said years ago god give me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I
can and the wisdom to know the difference. And they don`t know the
difference so they will just going to push and push and push and now
they`re pushing against the wind.

SHARPTON: Well, you know, my philosophy teacher is sitting here, Dr.
Perry. And I just don`t think republicans read moral man in an immoral
society. Just a guess. But you know, a new study Melissa showed how
states are hurting themselves, not to mention residents by not expanding
Medicaid. These 23 states will lose $385 billion in federal funds through
2022. And they actually in the paying $152 billion to other states. Is
this why so many republican governors are throwing in the towel and
expanding Medicaid?

HARRIS-PERRY: Well, so, I think there are two important things here. I
love that the congressman brought us to Niebuhr. I want to take another
piece of conventional wisdom though which says, you can`t beat somebody
with nobody. And so, as much as the republicans are facing an empirical
reality that says this policy is working, unless democrats actually embrace
it, unless democrats who are running, particularly those in those kind of
purple districts, I`m thinking here of Kay Hagan in North Carolina.


HARRIS-PERRY: I`m thinking of Mary Landrieu in Louisiana, they`re going to
have to actually go and say this say more, they`re going to have to say no,
that`s a lie. In fact, here is what the Affordable Health Care Act has
done. Here is in fact how these policies that you thought you wanted in
fact now that you have is better and cheaper. And they`re going to have to
hold those republican state office holders to account for the lack of
Medicaid expansion. But it will only work if democrats also recognize it
and embrace it. So, I think part on what`s happening on the question of
Medicaid expansion is about republicans recognizing it. It`s really only
beginning to happen in sits where there is an effective state Democratic
Party to push back against it.

SHARPTON: Well, you know, Congressman, some right wing and arguments just,
you know, about health care, really getting ridiculous. I mean, listen to
this report from Utah where the GOP governor is working with the Obama
administration to try to expand Medicaid.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A Utah representative says hospitals can be dangerous
and legislators should think about that before expanding health care for
the poor.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Sometimes the access is actually could mean harm,
sometimes access to health care can actually be damaging and dangerous.


SHARPTON: So, now access to health care is dangerous? I mean, that`s
their argument Congressman?

CLEAVER: Well, I think that`s so silly that even other silly people will
recognize how silly it is. The thing is, you know, they are doing it
again. In 1964, Barry Goldwater likened Medicare to free cigarettes for
those who smoke. Free beer for those who drink. And he talked about how
the world was coming to an end. And he was proved to be wrong. But he
continued to make those statements.


CLEAVER: And so, we got it no, that these guys, they have nothing to
offer. My state has lost $18 billion in Medicare benefits because we have
not done what`s so logical. And that is to increase the Medicare benefits
to plug into the ObamaCare.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you, Melissa. Look, big picture for a minute.


SHARPTON: How has the country begun to change on this issue?

HARRIS-PERRY: Well, here is the key for my perspective. It is in part
about Medicaid expansion. It is in part about insurance premiums. But
let`s be real, the scare tactic that so many republicans use effectively in
multiple campaigns either against the president or supposedly against the
president in Congressional campaigns was about which people would going to
have access. And especially the idea that poor people, the people who had
not previously had access. And potentially also that many people of color
would have access.

And the day would have access over and against often, elderly,
predominantly white Americans in the kind of Medicaid versus Medicare fight
that we saw frequently heard. What has to change is that people has to
understand that our interest transcends these particular racial boundaries.
We will only get to a point of having these kinds of policies that are good
for anyone when in fact, it is no longer politically viable to divide and
dice the electric by those people getting a benefit instead of these people
getting a benefit.

SHARPTON: You know, let`s turn immigration reform for a minute,
Congressman. The president was asked about executive action today at his
news conference today at the NATO Summit. Listen to this.


OBAMA: What I`m unequivocal about is that we need immigration reform. I
will be making the announcement soon. But I want to be very clear. My
intention is in the absence of action by Congress, I`m going to do what I
can do within the legal constraints of my office. Because it`s the right
thing to do for the country.


SHARPTON: You know, Congressman, you recently led a delegation to the
border. Doesn`t the president need to act if republicans refuse to address
this problem?

CLEAVER: Absolutely. The president must act. That`s music to my ears to
hear the president say he`s going to do something. Because Congress does
not. If you go down to the borders as I did and we met with members of the
Mexican Congress and look at those kids, they come all across Mexico which
I called the trail of fears and these kids deserve all of the attention
they can get, positive attention from this country. And the republicans
are just not going to act on immigration. These kids are struggling and
suffering. And we are holding up signs and calling them names. It is a
tragic, it is an embarrassment to the United States of America that`s
supposed to have humanitarianism as a central part of it somebodiness.

SHARPTON: Congressman Emanuel Cleaver and Melissa Harris-Perry, I`m going
to have to thank both of you for your time. And be sure to watch Melissa
Harris-Perry, weekends, 10:00 Eastern right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, the dad who left his son in a hot car is charged with murder.
But will the mom also be charged? Her attorney is talking about that next.


SHARPTON: Will the father who left his 22-month old son in the back seat
of his sweltering hot car face the death penalty? A grand jury has charged
Ross Harris with three counts of murder. He claimed he forgot to drop his
son off at day care on his way to work. And discovered his son`s lifeless
body later that afternoon. But today new questions surround his wife
Leanna who is standing by her husband even after his arrest. And despite
police revealing he was texting nude pictures to women while their son was
dying in the car. She visited her husband in prison several times and
after the indictment yesterday, the district attorney hinted more arrests
might be coming.


pace and the thoroughness of the investigation which continues on today.
The evidence in this case has led us to this point today. Whether or not
it leads us to anyone else remains to be answered.


SHARPTON: But now her attorney is out with a statement saying, I`m
surprised that the District Attorney is still contemplating whether or not
to charge my client if that is who he was referring to in his press
conference. By now, I would think they would have been able to make a
final decision and clear her from any wrongdoing. So could the mom also be
facing charges? And do prosecutors have enough to prove that the dad is

Joining me now, a criminal defense Attorney Eric Guster and former
prosecutor and MSNBC legal analyst Faith Jenkins. Thank you both for being



SHARPTON: Faith, could we see Leanna Harris charged in the death of her

JENKINS: It depends on the outcome of the investigation. It`s clear here
on the prosecutor`s statement that she`s not out of the woods. They are
still looking at her. And if you remember after her husband was arrested,
she made some highly suspicious statements and engaged in highly suspicious
behavior. Now, that`s not enough for an indictment, that`s not enough to
prove she committed a crime. So, they need evidence, they need proof that
they can present in court. But if you can recall, her first reaction going
to the day care and discovering her son wasn`t there, the first thing she
said to those day care workers was, oh, my husband must have left him in
the car.


JENKINS: Lo and behold her son was left in the car and dead. And then
when she went to the police station, the police overhear her say to her
husband, the first thing she said was, well, did you say too much?

SHARPTON: Yes. I remember we covered that here.

JENKINS: Is that the reaction you expect from a grieving mother?

SHARPTON: Eric, also at her son`s funeral Leanna Harris said this about
her son, quote, "I miss him with all my heart. Would I bring him back?
No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish." A strange
thing to say at the funeral of your son.

GUSTER: It is a very strange thing. And that`s what the prosecutor going
to look at. Leanna Harris, I`m sure her defense attorney has told her be
careful what you say and do from this point forward. Because what
prosecutors oftentimes will do is give people enough rope to hang
themselves. They will think they are not being looked at, they will think
they`re not being followed or their Internet search isn`t being looked at.
So, she may be charged later on based on what she does from this point
forward. They may have her in their sights but may not be charging her
just yet.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, Faith, Leanna Harris also filled out was call a
crime victim`s impact statement for the D.A.`s office. One question on the
form reads, please share any additional information you want taken into
consideration by the prosecutor and judge. Here`s what she wrote. Ross
was a wonderful father and he loved Cooper with all his heart. Because I
saw how he treasured our little boy for 22 months. I know without a doubt
he would never have knowingly allowed any harm to come to our son. I want
you to know what a loving father he was. Now, Faith, this is a crime
victim`s impact statement. Is this response strange or out of the

JENKINS: Well, from the prosecutors` standpoint, they are not looking at
her as a crime victim. They are looking at her as a potential suspect.
So, they know what her position is. She supports her husband. She doesn`t
think he did anything wrong. The prosecutors obviously, he`s been indicted
for malice murder in Georgia which is a death penalty eligible crime. And
they are look at her as someone who could have been in conspiracy with her
husband. So, of course she`s want to support him and she`s going to say
these things. So, those statements don`t carry a lot of weight with the
prosecutors. They want to examine and get to her heart of the case which
is her intent and was she really in cahoots with her husband.

SHARPTON: And take a look at the charges that Justin Ross Harris is
facing. One count of malice murder. Two counts of felony murder. First
degree cruelty to children. Second degree cruelty to children. Criminal
attempt to commit felony. And two counts dissemination of harmful material
to minors. Serious charges.

GUSTER: They are extremely serious charges. And what his defense lawyers
is going to have to do is try to severe the charges, try to separate the
cases from each other for them to be tried separately. Because in a murder
case with someone being accused of killing their son --


GUSTER: If the jury here is about him, disseminating information and
pictures to girl under the age of 18, which is where these charge with,
they`re going to find him guilty regardless. Because they`re going to
think this man is a pervert. And I believe it will go towards -- they will
try to say he was guilty.

SHARPTON: Faith, he`s facing three murder charges. Now, how is this
working? What are the chances he may face the death penalty?

JENKINS: Well, in Georgia they don`t have first or second degree murder.
They have malice murder which means, you committed murder and that was
intent or some kind of premeditation involved then the other three murders
are felony murder. And they`re saying, allegations of child abuse and what
he did in leaving this child in the car. So, that`s how that`s going to
work. And looking at all of the charges and putting them in context, it is
important their prosecutors paint a broad picture here. This was a man
they are going to argue who was leading a double life.

And that`s why you have the charges disseminating those pictures to a
minor. But the prosecutors want to show, this is what he was doing while
his son was dying a slow and torturous death in the car. I think it`s
probably a good case for the death penalty in Georgia, I expect the
prosecutors to want to go for it because of the level of malice involved
in what he did. I mean, his son died a very painful and agonizing slow

SHARPTON: Eric Guster and Faith Jenkins, thank you both your time tonight.
Have a great weekend to both of you.

GUSTER: Thank you.

JENKINS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the Obama doctrine and why his approach to foreign
policy is the right one. Plus, why are Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush both
making headlines today? That`s next.


SHARPTON: It`s the political questions everyone has been asking for years.
Will Hillary Clinton run for president in 2016? We have heard the
questions. Will she run? When might she announce? What is she waiting
for? Well, today in Mexico we learned a little more about that time frame.


vantage point and set of experiences about what makes the United States
operate well and what doesn`t. And what a president can do and should be
doing. So, I am going to making a decision around probably after the first
of the year about whether I`m going to run again or not.


SHARPTON: One person who will be watching is former Florida Governor Jeb
Bush. And today`s Wall Street Journal, Jeb Bush is sending signals about
2016`s presidential run himself. A Bush supporter who served in President
George W. Bush`s cabinets said, quote, "I think the chances are better than
50/50 that he runs. And that is based on conversations I have had with
members of the Bush family." Clinton, Bush again? We`ll be watching.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, making sure America looks before it leaps into
military action.


OBAMA: There is great conviction that we have are to act as part of the
international community to degrade an ultimately destroy ISIL. But we are
steadily moving in the right direction and we are going to achieve our
goal, we are going to degrade and ultimately defeat ISIL.


SHARPTON: The president has been criticized by some for his public
statements about ISIS. His approach, deliberate, cautious, determined is
exactly what America needs after more than a decade of war. We don`t need
our commander in chief to bluster and brag about getting terrorists dead or
alive. We have heard too much of that in the past. The American people
want results. Today the Pentagon confirmed that a U.S. air strike killed
the leader of a Somali terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda. He once
vowed to follow in the footsteps of Bin Laden and it looks like he did.
That`s what President Obama was working on while some were just criticizing

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. Have a great weekend. "HARDBALL"
starts right now.


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