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The Ed Show for Friday, September 5th, 2014

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September 5, 2014

Guest: Howard Dean, Jane Kleeb, Randy Thompson, Brent Coon

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: "The Ed Show" is live from Detroit Lakes,
Minnesota. Let`s get to work.


affirmed the central mission of the alliance.

force able to deploy at very short notice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very high readiness joint task force.

OBAMA: . armed attack against one shall be considered an attack against
them all.

RASMUSSEN: NATO protects all allies at all times.

OBAMA: .This is a binding treaty obligation. It is non-negotiable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Solving the crisis of sovereignty in Eastern Ukraine.

OBAMA: We`re assuring our allies in Eastern Europe.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: . and a real process of disengagement
with Russian troops leaving Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And declare a ceasefire .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be part of that ceasefire agreement.

OBAMA: ... rise to meet the challenges that we face in the 21st century.

necessary to put the squeeze on ISIL.

OBAMA: ISIL poses a growing danger.

KERRY: The destruction of ISIL.

OBAMA: Degrade and ultimately defeat ISIL.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a very strong message, very clear message.

OBAMA: ... to do whatever is necessary to ensure our collective defense.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks, thanks for watching.
Only time will tell how successful this trip actually was. It is awfully
important, President Obama wrapping up his visit at Wales for the NATO
summit earlier today. The goal very clear, his visit to go there and build
an international support team for fighting ISIS and dealing with Russia
over the conflict in Ukraine.


OBAMA: And is coming to an end. Russia`s aggression.


SCHULTZ: The President gave a press conference this afternoon about the
summit. President Obama said NATO will firmly stand behind Ukraine. NATO
was preparing a rapid response team to deal with Russia. The President
also said they are ready to move further against the Russians if need be.


OBAMA: Today the United States and Europe are finalizing measures to
deepen and broaden our sanctions across Russia`s financial energy and
defense sectors. At the same time we strongly support President
Poroshenko`s efforts to pursue a peaceful resolution to the conflict in his
country. The ceasefire announced today can advance that goal, but only if
there`s a follow through on the ground.

Pro-Russian separatist must keep their commitments and Russia must stop its
violations of Ukraine`s sovereignty and territorial integrity.


SCHULTZ: President Obama said sanctions on Russia are definitely working.


OBAMA: The only reason that we`re seeing this ceasefire at this moment is
because of both the sanction that have already been applied and the threat
of further sanctions which are having a real impact on the Russian economy
and have isolated Russia in a way that we have not seen in a very long

The path for Russia to rejoin the community of nations that respects
international law is still there. And we encourage President Putin to take


SCHULTZ: And President Obama spent a good deal of time addressing the ISIS
threat. Today the United States says it`s forming a core coalition to be a
rapid response team to battle ISIS in Iraq. The United States is calling
for a broad support from allies and partners from around the world. So
far, countries include the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Canada,
Australia, Turkey, Italy, Poland, and Denmark -- all very important.

The President said in today`s press conference, every member NATO
recognizes ISIS as a threat.


OBAMA: There was unanimity over the last two days that ISIL posses a
significant threat to NATO members. And, there was a recognition that we
have to take action. I did not any resistance or pushback to the basic
notion that we had a critical role to play in rolling back this savage
organization that is causing so much chaos in the region and is harming so
many people.


SCHULTZ: The president made very clear the international community must
act to destroy ISIS.


OBAMA: There`s great conviction that we have to act as part of the
international community to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL, and that
was extremely encouraging. Beyond that, what we have already seen is
significant support from a variety of member states for specific actions
that we`ve been taking in Iraq. Keep in mind we`ve taken already 100
strikes in Iraq that had a significant impact on degrading their


SCHULTZ: So this is nation building, is it not? Its coalition building,
it`s getting a lot of countries together to do what is going to be a very
heavy lift. Now let`s all remember, President Obama was elected to get us
out of war, to do something about the budget and he`s done it, not lead us
into war conflicts. Although the circumstances clearly have change and now
he stands on a crossroads challenging his legacy on foreign policy.

So what do you do? You got to go get back and get other people involved,
which is exactly what he said he was going to do. And with the change in
circumstances, the White House maybe reversing its position and policy on
dealing with boots on the ground or are we getting mixed signals here?

Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes told NBC`s Chris Jansing, the
White House isn`t ruling anything out.


CHRIS JANSING, NBC NEWS: Can you do it in Syria without boots on the

going to be necessary. We said clearly, you need a strategy on both sides
of this border. This is an organization that operates without respect for

JANSING: So you`re not ruling that out?

RHODES: We`re not ruling that out. What we`re already doing is providing
a military assistance to Syrian opposition who ultimately is strongest
counter weight on the ground to ISIL. We`re looking at what additional
options are necessary going forward.


SCHULTZ: So, I just heard him say, we`re not ruling that out. Meaning
there might come a time when United States would have to put boots on the
ground to defeat ISIS. Now the questions is are we getting mixed messages
this evening? Earlier today Secretary of State John Kerry said at a NATO
defense meeting, "Obviously I think that`s a red line for everybody here,
no boots on the ground."

OK, what does that mean? Does that mean that nobody in the room wants to
put boots on the ground or does it mean that if we have to we will put
boots on the ground? Vice President Joe Biden says we`re going to follow
these people to the gates of hell.

I`m not trying to manufacture a controversy here, but I have to somewhat
critical, I`m not sure we`re getting the straight talk on exactly how far
we`re going to go. One thing is clear, when Congress returns from the
recess in August -- here we go, of course the United States plan of action
on ISIS is going to be heavily debated.

But, why don`t we just say, "We`ll do whatever it takes to defeat ISIS".
Right now it`s air strikes, there`s been 100, there maybe a lot more.
We`ll do whatever it takes. Does that mean boots on the ground? We`ll do
whatever it takes. Get some bullet points, don`t be confusing and don`t
say, "Nobody at this table doesn`t want to put boots on the ground".
Because that tells me, well I don`t know how good this coalition is.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, do you think the President has his team on the same page? Text a
for yes, text b for no to 67622, you can always go to our blog at and leave a comment there, we`ll you the results later on in
the show.

For more, let me bring in former Vermont Governor and former DNC chair
Howard Dean. Governor Dean, good to have you with us tonight. I want your
analysis of the news that is unfolding from the NATO conference and the
different things that we`re hearing. Maybe I`m overplaying this. I don`t
feel like I am. I just don`t feel like I`m getting straight talk and I
want your impressions on what`s unfolding. Thanks for joining us.

FRM. GOV. HOWARD DEAN, (D) VERMONT: Well, first of all, I actually am a
big supporter of the Obama doctrine which this really is an example of.
So, let me lay this out. No president can say we`re not going to do this
or we`re not going to do that. Everybody has to say, all options are on
the table. Now, I don`t think we`re going to have boots on the ground.

And here`s why and here`s what I think the President means it. First of
all, we have learned painfully since Vietnam, we`re learning in
Afghanistan, we certainly learned painfully in Iraq that boots in the
ground don`t really help in a long term. If we want to succeed long-term
against ISIS or any other crazy people, and that`s what these people are.

These are not Islamist, I wish the press calling them militants and
Islamist, they believe -- they no more -- are Muslims than I am, what they
are doing. And any Muslim scholar will tell you that. So these are --
this is a violent cult that`s well-financed. And if you want to stop them,
you can`t do that without the will of the sane people on the ground, of the
Sunni, of the Kurds, of the Shia to stop them

So, I don`t think it makes any sense for us to have boots in the ground
because if they`re not willing to take over their own country back, we
can`t do that for them. I do think air support makes a tremendous amount
of sense. I think coalitions make a tremendous amount of sense.

SCHULTZ: So, how important was it for the President on this trip in your
opinion to build this coalition? He`s been very patient, in fact Senator
Feinstein said, maybe too cautious, your thoughts?

DEAN: Well, you know, it`s easy to criticize a president. People could do
it all the time but if you look at the overall bent of our new foreign
policy when we dealt (ph) two things, you know, unilaterally and when we --
and we see the terrible price we`re paying for the Iraq. None of these
would be happening if George Bush hasn`t sent troops into Iraq 10 years

SCHULTZ: Correct, no doubt.

DEAN: I think the President is careful, thoughtful, and I think he`s
methodical. I don`t have a lot of differences with what he`s doing. I
think he`s handling Russia very well. I do think that he needs to put the
sanctions and I think this ceasefire is most likely a ploy to keep the
sanctions off and to appeal to the Europeans -- desire not to hurt their

So, he`s got to put those sayings he`s on. He can take them off if Russia
behaves itself. There`s no evidence that Russia will behave. I like what
the President is doing, I like the deliberation, I like the thoughtfulness,
and I like the no boots on the ground.

SCHULTZ: And Governor Dean, what do you think the debate and the
conversation in Congress is going to look like when they come back and
start talking about ISIS?

DEAN: I think John Boehner just wants to go and play golf as fast as he
can. I doubt they`re going to have any serious conversation whatsoever.
You see these partisan attacks on the President from the Republicans. They
don`t care about the substance (ph). All they care about is blaming the
President right before the election.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Former Governor Howard Dean, good to have you with us
tonight. I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you Sir.

Let me bring in MSNBC Political Analyst Jonathan Alter. Jonathan, you
wrote an interesting piece in the Daily Beast about how important you
thought this trip was.


SCHULTZ: Is this a defining moment for -- when it comes to nation building
and coalition building to fight what we are now, you know, faced with as a
country, your thoughts?

ALTER: Well, we don`t really know yet. I mean, the proof will come in the
next weeks and months. If these lines of the President has drawn very
strongly this week, if they hold, if you can get NATO to back them with
whatever, you know, measures are appropriate, be they sanctions, troop
maneuvers. In the case of ISIS air strikes.

If they follow on to the Wales NATO conference is appropriate, and what the
President has indicated it`s going to be, then I think will be seen as an
important leadership moment for this President. And a lot of what`s
happened in the past and, you know, saying there was no strategy, this kind
of gaps that some people considered to be a big deal.

Those will all fade into insignificance if the basic policy of what you
might call muscular multilateralism. If that holds, then August and
September of 2014 will be seen as the time when the Obama doctrine really
proved to be effective.

SCHULTZ: Do you think from all the reports that this was an effective
conference that, the President gets mission accomplished, to get over there
and get people on board to collectively do what has to be done?

ALTER: I do think that there was -- that they were all, you know, it is a
cliche, I`m the same page on this. And, there are clearly been a lot of
prep work before this conference, so that they could roll out certain
things, you know, for instance the President and Prime Minister Cameron
wrote an important article in the London newspaper. They really explained
how the United States and Great Britain and the rest of our NATO allies,
were really in the same place, that there was an inch of difference...


ALTER: ... between the nation on this. It`s really very important
policies. I think what some Americans who maybe are paying attention on
other things don`t quite understand is that, this is really history
knocking at the door. You know, this is a big deal when you have, you
know, Russia trying to show that, you know, might makes right which is what
civilized nations who have been fighting against, you know, for more than
100 years.


ALTER: . and that idea that might makes right. And then meanwhile, in the
Middle East, you have some barbarians who are trying to turn back the clock
to the 12th century. Actually the 12th century Muslims make these butchers
look pretty good by comparison. It makes the 12th century guys look good
by comparison.

So, you know, this is evil in our time. And so, you know, while we`re
coming back from vacation we all have to recognize that when evil does
appear it must be combated.

SCHULTZ: All right, Jonathan Alter, good to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate your time.

ALTER: Thanks Ed.

SCHULTZ: Remember to answer tonight`s questions there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts with us on twitter@edshow and on Facebook. We
want to know what you think.

Coming up, there are new question surrounding the death of entertainer and
comedian Joan Rivers. Dr. Nancy Snyderman will join us with the latest.
Plus, Hillary Clinton gave a huge speech on energy but failed to mention
something I think it`s very important.

Jane Kleeb of Bold Nebraska tells us where Clinton missed the mark and what
happen in Nebraska today with the State Supreme Court. And we`ll also
bring you the latest on a tragic plane crash off the shores of Jamaica that
has killed a prominent real estate developer from New York.

Stay with us, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: What`s hot what`s not, what`s out there? Time now for Trenders.
Follow the Ed team with us on twitter@edshow, like on Facebook and wegoted
as well. You can get my podcast on the website of wegoted, also at, and on iTunes.

The Ed Show social media nation has decided and we are reporting.

Here today`s top trenders voted on by you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three trender, try again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not just the full but a tumble of grace for the once
rising star of the Republican Party.

SCHULTZ: McDonnell was found guilty on 11 of 13 corruption charges against

The former Governor plans to appeal his corruption conviction.

JOHN FUGELSANG, POLITICAL ANALYST: McDonnell and his wife Maurine, each
face up the 30 years in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This all have to do with lavish gifts and loans worth
about $180,000.

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE HOST: It was as if Jonnie Williams is the
Governor`s personal ATM.

FRM. GOV. BOB MCDONNELL, (R) VIRGINIA: All I can say is my trust remains I
the Lord.

SCHULTZ: The number two trender, creepy crawler.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell is that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Internet prank harvest in Poland, having some kind
of terrifying fun by dressing up a dog to look like a giant spider.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This pup prank leaves victims howling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later, he strung up big web, took the scare to an
entirely new level.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) his Facebook page (inaudible) insane people
are the best. And improving it again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most, every one`s mad here.

SCHULTZ: And today`s top trender, new questions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joan Rivers was brash, she was bolt, she was a

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 81-year-old died Thursday, a week after going into
cardiac arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joan River star burned brightly right up until the

SCHULTZ: Investigators look into the death of comedy legend Joan Rivers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Medical experts in New York are investigating what
cause her to stop breathing during a routine medical procedure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The New York State Health Department is launching an
investigation into the clinic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was life saving equipment readily available? And if
so, was it use?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The medical association that accredited oracle
endoscopy, they`re now reviewing their decision.


SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight, Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC News Chief Medical
Examiner. Doctor, good to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: . Nancy, I appreciate it.


SCHULTZ: You know, they do an autopsy -- the cause of death, undetermined,
how troubling is that?

SNYDERMAN: Well, we don`t really know everything yet because this death
happened unexpectedly. The things that doctors are really going to be
looking for on this autopsy will be medications in her system, was there
some kind of drug-drug interaction. And could gastric acid from her
stomach have gotten into her vocal cords and into her lungs and caused
problems. Specific things like that are really going to be needed to nail
this down.

Unfortunately at this point, we can do a lot of Monday morning quarter
backing, but really the only people who know exactly what happened are the
doctors, nurses, and assistants who are in the room that day.

SCHULTZ: Could we come to the conclusion Doctor, that if she had not had
this procedure, she`d still be alive?

SNYDERMAN: Most likely, you know, there are 8 million upper G.I.
endoscopies done every year, a thousand people die. So this overall safety
record is pretty darn good. But if you`d look at those deaths, most of
them can be attributed to an anesthesia issue. It certainly raises the
question today about age, about the clinic, about the medications being
used, and what happen?

We certainly can assume that she lost her airway and it was sometime before
she was able to be stabilized not to transfer to the hospital and be
admitted to the intensive care unit at Mt. Sinai Hospital. But what
transpired to trigger this, that`s really going to be the point to this
investigation. I can tell you that having spoken to countless physicians,
this clinic is well-known, well-recognized, well staffed. So whether there
was a big medical error that happened to good doctors or whether there was
a terrible mistake and who`s responsible.

This is not going to be held quietly. These things will come to the
surface and we`ll be able to really then, I think figure out exactly what
happen. And make some sense out of this in some kind of bizarre way. It`s
a very, very, very tragic.

SCHULTZ: But obviously, patients before these procedures are well-versed
on the risk. Are they not? I mean, Joan Rivers probably knew exactly what
she was getting into here that this was not always going to be perfect,

SNYDERMAN: Well, you know, she made fun of the fact that she was more than
a casual patient. She`s had many, many procedures and I always worry when
patient have had lots of procedures, that they take some things for
granted. This should have been a simple diagnostic endoscopy with the tube
just being put down her throat to look at her vocal chords and her
esophagus and maybe her stomach and something went wrong.

But boy, it is a real reminder that there are no free passes sometimes,
that every procedure, no matter how simple can have terrible complications.
So, if your doctor suggests the procedure ask, why? Are there
alternatives? May I have this not sedated? May I have it awake? What are
the risks?

You know, all of those things matter. May I stay on my medications? When
should I take my last sip of water? When can I have my last meal? All of
those things, especially when we`re talking about an 81-year-old woman.

They can become little things that become cumulative and add up to one big
problem. There is no doubt in my mind Ed that we will be able to figure
out what happened. And certainly today, it`s causing a lot of
conversations among doctors and patients.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. This is the biggest nightmare a doctor could ever have.

SNYDERMAN: Yes it is.

SCHULTZ: Now, you know, Yorkville, they say "Is going under a routine


SCHULTZ: What -- and no wrong doing is suspected in River`s death but
these outpatient clinics, like this are going to becoming under a
microscope and why wasn`t this done in a hospital or was this just so basic
in routine?

SNYDERMAN: A lot of people are asking that, especially is because she`s 81
and there are physicians I`ve spoken to today. They said, because of her
age alone, perhaps, she should have been treated in an outpatient clinic.
But this is the standard up here right now in the United Sates because you

Outpatient clinics freestanding, but doctors who run these should have
privileges at local hospitals and these doctors do. We can talk about and
argue about the practice of Medicine in the big business of medicine, but
this is a clinic that is run by G.I. doctors where they do colonoscopies
and endoscopies on an outpatient basis. The clinic has a good reputation.

But some argue that if you have an 81-year-old. Perhaps that is a risk
factor that stands alone, that perhaps warrants being in a hospital
setting. There are questions about whether the dosage in an 81-year-old
person, the dosage for sedation should be changed. We will find out the
answers to all of these. But the standalone clinic issue has become the
norm in this country. Yorkville is...


SNYDERMAN: ... accredited. Has a good reputation. But it is cost (ph)
prohibitive right now in this country to think that everyone`s going to
have a general anesthetic and be in an operating room. In some ways, that
milligram (ph) have helped her cause, but you don`t want to be sedated for
anything if you don`t have to be.

SCHULTZ: Sure. Dr. Nancy Snyderman in NBC News, great to have you with us

SNYDERMAN: You bet, anytime.

SCHULTZ: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, there are major developments out of Nebraska on the
Keystone XL Pipeline. It was in court today. Jane Kleeb of Bold Nebraska
and a landowner, they`ve got something to say about what happened today.

Plus, four years after the Deepwater Horizon disaster, BP is slapped with a
devastating court ruling. The multibillion dollar oil company is crying
foul. We`ll bring you the latest with Attorney Brent Coon.

Next, breaking news, details on the small plane crash off the coast of

You`re watching the Ed Show on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. A story we`ve been following all
day here on MSNBC. A small plane crash has taken the lives of two
Americans. Rochester, New York real estate developer Larry Glazer and his
wife were killed when their plane became unresponsive and crashed. The
Socata TBM-700 left Rochester, New York at 8:45 this morning and was
supposed to land at Naples, Florida around noon.

Two F-15s followed and escorted the plane at 25,000 feet until it reached
Cuba. NBC News reports the windows of the small plane were frosted over
and the pilot was slumped over. The fighter jets broke away from Cuban
airspace and rejoined the plane near Jamaica. According to Jamaican
authorities, the plane crashed 14 miles north of the island. If we receive
any more details on this, we`ll bring you the latest here on MSNBC.

Meanwhile, there is also a breaking news out in Iran. An American charter
flight with as many as 100 Americans onboard was forced to land inside
Iran. The Dubai-based airline was asked to land by Iranian air traffic and
did so voluntarily. This is a routine flight that carries U.S. contractors
back and forth between Dubai and Afghanistan. U.S. officials say it landed
because of a bureaucratic issue. State Department officials expect the
issue to be resolved soon and the plane to take off in the next few hours.

Stick around the Rapid Response Panel is next here on the Ed Show on MSNBC.

JANE WELLS, CNBC MARKET WRAP: Hey, I`m Jane Wells with your CNBC Market

Stocks gained ground despite a weaker than expected employment reports.
The Dow is up 67 points, the S&P at 10 to close at a new record there, the
NASDAQ climbed 20.

The economy, they only added 142,000 jobs in August. That is far fewer
than expected but the employment rate ticked down to 6.1 percent. And the
other great (ph) story today, Chinese e-commerce giant Alibaba has filed to
sell, get ready, up to $24 billion in stocks. That would be the largest
IPO in U.S. history.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight. There
is big Hillary Clinton news out there tonight. Reuters is reporting
Clinton said the following at and event in Mexico City. "I`m going to make
a decision, probably after the first of the year about whether I`m going
run again or not." This statement comes a day after Clinton gave the
keynote address of the Clean Energy Summit in Las Vegas. The former
Secretary of State addressed a number of issues the United States is facing
when it comes to the environment. Clinton did not mention the proposed
Keystone XL Pipeline, although Clinton did address fracking.


this boom, we have to face head on the legitimate pressing environmental
concerns about some new extraction practices and their impacts on local
water, soil, and air supplies.


SCHULTZ: If she becomes a candidate, if Hillary Clinton supports the
Keystone XL Pipeline, I think that she`s going to lose a lot of support
from Progressives.

Today, the six-year fight against the Keystone XL Pipeline is reaching
another crossroads. The controversial proposed pipeline is at the heart of
the case being argued in the Nebraska State Supreme Court. Earlier this
year, I spoke to a group of landowners about their fight with the
multinational oil company TransCanada.


ART TANDERUP, NE LANDOWNER: They`re the best used car salesman you`ll ever
find. But they only have to sell you one car and then when that car is
sold, they`re going to be out of the country, you know. And there`s no
warranty on this used car that they`re going to sell us.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, our Rapid Response Panel, Jane Kleeb,
Executive Director of Bold Nebraska and also Randy Thompson, a Nebraska
landowner whose case was argued in front of the Nebraska State Supreme
Court today.

The issue is very clear here. It`s about eminent domain it`s not about the
oil or the quality or anything else. It`s about you Randy, owning your
land and someone coming in and telling you what you have to do with it.
And the question here now is, "What`s your argument at this point?"

RANDY THOMPSON, NE LANDOWNER: Well, as you know, Ed, since we`ve met, you
realized I`m not an attorney but I will do the best I can. With several
points actually, but I think one of our strongest points was the fact that
the legislature turned over the determination and the granting of eminent
domain to the governor. And this is something that our constitution, that
we feel definitely prohibits.

And so he was actually the one that -- once he approved the route and he
granted the power of eminent domain to TransCanada, even though TransCanada
is still in the permitting process, as we all know. And we feel that that
is totally outrageous that a foreign corporation who was still in the
permitting process could actually come in and condemn a property that
belonged to Nebraska farmers and ranchers.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Jane, wouldn`t the Nebraska Supreme Court have to change
the constitution to allow this ruling to stand or to allow this process to
proceed? I mean, it would seem to me what`s in front of them right now is
whether they want to change the constitution or not. How do you see it?

JANE KLEEB, BOLD NEBRASKA: No, that`s actually right. And if they want to
twist to themselves at a pretzel which is exactly what the governor stands,
is, they`re saying that TransCanada is not a common carrier. Even though
TransCanada says they`re a common carrier in South Dakota, Texas, and other
states. But they`re trying to say they`re not a common carrier so
therefore, they don`t have to go to the Public Service Commission.

And this is essentially hell on wheels all over, right? So, back in the
day during railroads, when the first time these public service commissions
and railroad commissions were created, it was, so politics and money did
not influence where these infrastructure projects went. And Governor
Heineman essentially just want hell on wheels all over again. He likes the
money and he likes the power but we actually have a state constitution that
has to be honored.

SCHULTZ: Randy, what are your neighbors saying? Have attitudes changed
over the last six or seven months about this Keystone XL now that -- and in
fact, it was about three months ago, people were saying that the White
House who`s going to make a decision pretty soon, that never came. It`s
very clear that it seems now the President`s waiting for all the legal
wrangling to end before he`s going to weight in on this to allow it to
unfold. Even tough it`s in its sixth year and there`s been billions of
dollars thrown at this. But what about the attitudes of Nebraskans, what
do you sense out there?

THOMPSON: I think -- my sense Ed is that, the further we go down the road
with this, more and more people are realizing, you know, what this pipeline
is really about. And so we have seen, you know, people just coming
together, you know, in masses really. And I feel, you know, that we have
seen a definite increase in the landowners, and all Nebraskan citizens,
basically they`re coming over to our side on this.

SCHULTZ: Jane wasn`t today like D-day for those who oppose the pipeline?
I mean if you do not get a favor for ruling from the Supreme Court and they
say, "Yes, it`s OK, what the governor did". The permitting process will
move pretty quickly after that, won`t it?

KLEEB: Yes. I mean this decision is going to be critical. And so, maybe
the decision might come in January or maybe a little bit later, but it is.
I mean this was a critical day, and for us it was the historic day because
it was citizens bringing the case to the governor who clearly had an abuse
of power.

And if we lose, that will obviously not be a good situation for us but if
we win, it gives the President a lot of space to essentially stand with
folks like Randy and other citizens across the country, who are saying, "We
don`t want to risk our land and water for foreign export pipeline".

SCHULTZ: Jane, does Hillary Clinton`s silence on Keystone XL make you

KLEEB: You know, look, she is tough as nails on so many issues and she
clearly spoke about climate change and climate science yesterday. But you
cannot talk about climate change, and be concerned about the ice caps
melting and then turn around and be silent on Keystone XL. Anybody that
knows anything about science and climate change knows that expanding Tar
Sands is going to increase carbon pollution.

And so if you`re going to on that side of things when it comes to energy,
then you better get on the side of the "#nokeyxl" folks and we invite
Secretary Clinton to come to the Harvest of Hope Concert at the end of this
month. We will Willie Nelson and Neil Young, she can come onstage ad join
us to oppose this pipeline.

SCHULTZ: So, you want her to give an up or down on this. I mean, she goes
and she speaks at this Green Summit in Las Vegas but yet she does weigh in
on what has been really the focal point of the environmental crowd that --
so far this year. I mean, if this ruling by the Nebraska Supreme Court
works in your favor, is this project dead and does it take it out of the
2016 election?

KLEEB: I think it`s going to be very difficult for the President to allow
this, you know, process to go on because essentially when you look at all
the timeline, you`re looking about a year and half to two years. And so, I
don`t see the President`s kind of letting that continue, I think the
President will see the writing on the wall. Quite frankly, TransCanada
could see the writing on the wall, pull their permit and focus on their
Energy Easy pipeline which I don`t think will ever get a permit as well.

So maybe they`ll go back to just focusing on gas pipelines. But Secretary
Clinton can`t sit on the sidelines. It`s not just Keystone XL, it`s also
about Tar Sands. We are concerned about that extreme form of energy. It`s
not good for America energy independent, certainly not good for property
rights in the heartland. And so she has to ask herself, is she going to
stand for farmers and ranchers, and stand with those of us who care about
climate change? Or is she going to continue to turn her back on these
critical issues? I hope she continues to be as tough as nails and stands
with us.

SCHULTZ: All right, Jane Kleeb and Randy Thompson from Nebraska, good to
have you with us tonight here on the Ed Show.

Coming up, it`s back to school time. And an Ed Show favorite is already
getting a failing grade. Pretenders is next.

Keep it right here. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, he`ll never learn. Louie Gohmert, the
Texas Congressman is attacking America`s policy to teach all children.
Gohmert says educating the children fleeing violence in Central America is
bringing down the United States schools.


REP. LOUIE GOHMERT, (R) TEXAS: But if you think about it, he calls it a
Dreamers bills, what he had proposed, but it`s more of a nightmare. It`s
not fair to kids that come in and speak only Spanish, throw them in a
classroom with English-speaking students.


SCHULTZ: Louie Gohmert has education envy. He`s talking like he never got


TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: It`s all a scam, why does the administration
refuse, in the face of evidence that its hurting kids to enforce basic
immigration law?

GOHMERT: Well, he`s thinking only about the foreign students, not ever
fair to them, but it is a disaster for students, young kids trying to learn
the most they can and the teacher has to bring the education down to the
lowest level.


SCHULTZ: Sorry, Louie, your argument doesn`t make the grade. Here`s a few
lessons for the Congressman from Texas. Kids aren`t thrown in the
classrooms. They are in language assistance programs. School officials
around the country have been more than willing to help, citing legal and
moral obligations. San Francisco has welcomed the privilege to educate all
children. The Tea Partier`s rhetoric of exclusion doesn`t help any student
regardless of immigration status.

If Louie Gohmert thinks failing to help children strengthens America, he
can keep on pretending.



TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP: We`re sorry for the massive disruption it`s caused
their lives. I mean, you know, we -- there`s no one who wants this thing
over more than I do. I`d like my life back. So there`s no one who wants
this thing done more than I do. And we are doing everything we can to
contain the oil offshore, defend the shoreline and return people`s lives to
normal as fast as we can.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. And finally tonight, 11 people lost
their lives and countless more along the coast lost their livelihood as the
result of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in 2010. Crude spewed into the
Gulf for 87 days and has spread across hundreds of miles of beaches on the
shores of five different states.

Now more than 4 years later, a federal judge has ruled, BP acted recklessly
leading up to the spill. And those dangerous decisions were motivated by
profit. In 153 page ruling released on Thursday, the judge concluded the
discharge of oil was the result of gross negligence or willful misconduct
by the company BP.

The ruling opens BP up to a fine of $18 billion, the maximum penalty under
the Clean Water Act. BP was assigned of majority, 67 percent of the blame
but it wasn`t the only company ruled responsible. TransOcean, owner of the
Deepwater Horizon drilling rig was assigned 30 percent of the blame and
Halliburton, the well`s cement contractor is on the hook for 3 percent.

Now, the next stage of this case is set to begin in January when a judge
will decide how much BP must actually pay. Will it be $18 billion?

Joining us tonight, Brent Coon, Attorney with Brent Coon and Associates.
Brent, good to have you with us tonight, you have represented a lot of
folks down there who have seen a lot of suffering and financial despair in
recent years. Tell us of some of the decisions made by BP that resulted in
this ruling as you see it.

BRENT COON, ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Ed, good points and good to see you
on a Friday evening but the pointer -- there are so many, you couldn`t
enumerate them all. Again the judge made 618 specific separate findings in
this very broad-based opinion from a case that he trailed for a significant
period of time last year. But we know of several major factors.

One is BP was desperate to get this well drilled. They were way past the
production deadlines, they had a -- some adverse weather conditions before.
They were losing $500,000 a day so when they rushed to get this well
completed, and to get the drilling well moved to another place so they can
hurry up and drill some more wells, they pulled the plug literally and
figuratively on this particular well too soon.

And the cement did cure and there a number of other technical reasons that
it wasn`t properly ready to be closed out and move to new location. As a
consequence, the well didn`t hold, the gas came out and the explosion and
the aftermath that we all read about the last four years occurred.

SCHULTZ: Well, clearly, Brent, there is no restitution for the loss of the
life, 11 lives lost back on that day. But $18 billion, your analysis of

COON: You know, two things, one is the penalty is based on how many
barrels of oil spilled and it`s basically mathematical calculation. Once
that`s determined the judge takes amount and he multiplies it by some
number between one and four for the punitive. So what we did already know
was that there were 4-5 million barrels of oil spilled. And under the
Clean Water Act, if you multiply that, it comes about, times about a
thousand barrels -- thousand dollars a barrel.

So you`re looking at $4-5 billion as a minimum amount. Now, with punitive
damages, the state (ph) allows the court to multiply that by up to the
figure of four, which is now a number that you`re looking at in the --
potentially the $18 billion range. Again, the judge has some discretion in
finding out for his own self, based on the testimony, how many barrels
actually spilled. And interestingly you may recall that in the beginning
of this case, when then oil was still spilling like he mentioned, 87 days
it was spilling.

The BP executives covered up the amount of oil that was spilling and he
lied at congress and kept saying it was only 1000 barrels a day, when they
knew in fact it was up to 50,000-100,000 barrels a day.

SCHULTZ: Beware of the oil companies when things like this happen. That`s
one of the big lessons in all of this as I see it. How long is it going to

COON: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: ... before we actually see -- How long it`s going to take before
we actually see financial restitution of the folks that have gone through
the financial hardship?

COON: You know, good point, Ed. The sad thing is we represent people that
were on that rig that day that haven`t been compensated. We represented
people that lost their livelihoods, not only were they out of work, many of
our clients lost their business because they didn`t have the ability to
withstand the year -- for the economy to rebound along the Gulf Coast. And
that they haven`t been paid yet.

BP has done a good job of whitewashing what`s going on today, but the
reality is the vast majority of claimants have never been paid. And the
stories that BP pays for, their paid advertising presents a very false
statement of facts to what`s really going on. These people waited four
years and based on the way BP has appealed every decision in this case,
were looking at several more years at a minimum before we see things really
going better for them, if they ever.

And the problem with this penalty now, is that all this money goes to the
United States government. And granted they`re entitled to bring those
claims for the Clean Water Act violations, but it further slows down the
process of dealing with what I believe to be the bigger insult (ph) in what
happened here, which is the devastating impact it had on these lives and

SCHULTZ: Brent Coon, we will stay on this story. This is a big ruling for
those who`ve have been involved in this, and they`ve been waiting a long
time for this, there`s no question about it. The wheels of justice take a
long time to roll but $18 billion certainly will help those folks if that`s
what it actually comes down to. Great to have you with us, Brent,
appreciate it.

And that is the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening,


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