updated 10/6/2014 9:40:40 AM ET 2014-10-06T13:40:40

Date: October 3, 2014

Guest: Dr. Jonathan Moreno, Abby Phillip, John Brabender, Michael Tomasky,
Michelle Bernard, Ralph Nader

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Another beheading abroad, an Ebola quarantine
here at home.

And this is HARDBALL.

Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington.

And we begin tonight, this Friday night, with the latest horror from
abroad. The Islamic State has committed another beheading. This fourth
victim in a growing list that includes two Americans is Alan Henning, a
British aid worker, back home in England a 47-year-old cab driver. His
wife, Barbara, had appealed for his release and had hoped for his safe
return, especially after being joined in her appeal by dozens of Muslim
leaders in Britain.

Joining me right now is Andrea Mitchell, NBC News chief foreign
affairs correspondent. Andrea, this is going to drive the demand in this
country to get even, if you will. This is humiliating. It`s an insult to
us, and it`s a death of an innocent person, a guy who`s a cab driver who
went to work for an aid program.

Kassig, who was also seen on the video, and the threat is that he will be

Look, this is their way of terrorizing us and the Brits. And this is
the real fear -- homeland officials, counterterrorism officials. The fear
has been all along of a lone wolf, of an imitator, of what happened with
the Algerians, of what happened in Australia with the threat there that
they broke up, that others will begin to imitate, not that these folks in
ISIS yet have the way to attack the homeland -- this is not like al Qaeda
was under bin Laden -- but that they do have the aspiration and that others
may try to imitate them.

MATTHEWS: This is like a pendulum, though. Even if it`s just these
people, ISIS, in Syria, every two weeks, are we going to see a beheading?

MITCHELL: Most likely. They have other hostages. We don`t know
exactly how many, and we`re not reporting what we know because homeland and
other officials do not want to let on that we know as much as intelligence
does know about...

MATTHEWS: Is this to get -- this is a tough question for you, even
though you`re the expert. Is this to get us in, or to get us out?

MITCHELL: It`s to get us in. There`s no question, it`s to get us in
and to create more of the anger against America and...

MATTHEWS: You mean our anger at them.

MITCHELL: Our anger at them, and also their anger at us. They have
this crazy notion that we are responsible for all of the ills of the world.
And certainly, look at the past policies. They`ve got certain things that
they can -- that they can look at. But this is terror in its worst form.
And air strikes are not going to stop this. We have to find them.

MATTHEWS: Yes, they`re blaming the air strikes for doing this. This

MITCHELL: But they started it before the air strikes, so that`s...

MATTHEWS: Thank you, Andrea Mitchell.

MITCHELL: You bet.

MATTHEWS: Thanks for joining us.

And the other big story tonight, Ebola. It`s getting real and close
here at home. Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who spoke to us last night from Liberia
in West Africa, is now heading home to three weeks -- that`s 21 days -- of
quarantine for her, and so are her fellow workers for NBC, one of whom has
been diagnosed with Ebola.

Here in Washington, D.C., there is someone suffering the symptoms of
Ebola. The patient is under quarantine, as well. In Dallas, Texas, we
have a full-blown case of a person who came here from Monrovia, Liberia,
and was turned away from the hospital with initial symptoms and only later
admitted for treatment.

Other news tonight, President Bush II says his brother, Jeb, wants to
be President Bush III. Does the brother know best?

And the jobless rate has dropped to 5.9 percent, thanks to a quarter
of a million new American jobs this September. But does the middle class
feel it yet?

Meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden calls his job -- his word -- "a

Our guests tonight in the roundtable, Ralph Nader himself, Michelle
Bernard and Jonathan Capehart. They`ll be getting into everything, but
also the emerging war between taxi drivers and Uber. Will be Uber be
uberall over alles?

Anyway, but first, Ebola. The president`s getting extremely serious,
even as he attempts to calm the country as to the worst possibilities.
Aware that the disease cannot be kept from these shores if it is epidemic
overseas, the president is sending a force of now up to 4,000 troops to
West Africa to take action in limiting Ebola`s spread.

Late today, Lisa Monaco, assistant to the president for homeland
security, said the administration was scaling up its response to Ebola at
home and abroad.


Ebola outbreak over the past 40 years has been stopped. We know how to do
this, and we will do it again.


MATTHEWS: Well, Abby Phillip is covering Ebola for "The Washington
Post," and Dr. Jonathan Moreno is professor of medical ethics at the
University of Pennsylvania.

Let me start with Dr. Moreno. The 21 days of quarantine for Dr. Nancy
Snyderman, who was on this program last night from Liberia -- is that

fact that that is enough, yes. and I think we really understand, with lots
of experience, the natural course of the illness. And I think 21 days is a
confident number.

MATTHEWS: And if we had done that with the people getting on the
planes, I guess we wouldn`t be in the trouble we`re in. In other words, if
they had held them at the airport for three weeks -- maybe that`s
impossible, but does that seem like something we might be thinking about
down the road, having the quarantine before the people get on the planes to
the United States from Monrovia and other affected places?

MORENO: You know, quarantines have a kind of a mixed record
historically, in the history of medicine. And you just can`t quarantine
everybody who`s going back and forth from that part of the world. I think
that, really, what we need to do is get really a little more disciplined
about the way people are communicating with each other. We saw the problem
in the Texas hospital between the doctors and the nurses, and that`s really
where we need to focus our efforts.

MATTHEWS: OK, here`s Nancy Snyderman, Dr. Snyderman last night --
actually, this morning -- talking about the situation affecting her now


DR. NANCY SNYDERMAN, NBC MEDICAL EDITOR: Once he became symptomatic,
we`d only spent two hours together. He and I were working in a work space
when he told me that he wasn`t feeling well. He had joined us 72 hours
earlier as an independent journalist and had been in the hospital -- had
been in the country two weeks prior to that.

So my suspicion is that he was infected before we met him, and then he
became symptomatic once we met him. We shared a work space, we shared
vehicles, we shared equipment. But everyone here is hyperalert. We have
not been in close proximity. No one shakes hands. There`s no hugging. So
I do believe that our team, while we are being hypervigilant, we are at
very, very, very low risk.


MATTHEWS: As I said, Dr. Snyderman, who was on the program last night
and spoke there this morning, is going into 21 days of quarantine here in
the United States when she comes home, which is right away.

By the way, in Washington, D.C., right here in the city I`m in right
now, a patient is in isolation at Howard University Hospital with a
possible case of Ebola. Here`s what a spokesperson for that facility said
today. Quote, "We can confirm that a patient has been admitted to Howard
University Hospital in stable condition following travel to Nigeria and
presenting with symptoms that could be associated with Ebola. In an
abundance of caution, we have activated the appropriate infection control
protocols, including isolating the patient."

Meanwhile, in Atlanta, Georgia, a man arrested yesterday for drunk
driving is currently in isolation at a hospital there. He had a low-grade
fever and said he recently traveled to Africa. Late today, Georgian
officials said so far, all test results have come back negative for his
disease. Those are initial tests.

And a third potential case in Shady Grove, Maryland, not far from
here, this afternoon, a hospital there said a patient was being isolated
and tested for Ebola.

Let me go to Abby Phillip, who`s down there in Dallas. Abby, tell me
what`s -- everything about the story now that you know, about this patient
who came here from Liberia, had symptoms. They wouldn`t let him in the
hospital, they didn`t think these were Ebola symptoms. Then his nephew
warned the hospital they got to take him. He did get in. They said, Yes,
this is a victim, a patient we got to take in with Ebola. What situation
is he in, and what`s his condition right now?

ABBY PHILLIP, "WASHINGTON POST": The hospital says he`s still in
serious condition. He`s been there for about three days now, so I think
that`s not surprising, considering how grave his condition was when he was
admitted on Sunday. At the moment, his associates, the family that he was
staying with, are still being quarantined. And finally, a lot of the
soiled sheets and mattresses and personal belongings that he left behind
are being taken out of that apartment, and they are going to be moved to
another facility that is not infected.

I think there is just a sense of fear in this community. I think the
family is fearful for their own health and wellbeing. But on the other
hand, all of these other cases, in Maryland, in Washington, D.C., even in
Atlanta, are a direct result of everyone not wanting to be this Dallas
hospital that turned someone away who actually had symptoms of this virus.
They want to be proactive and on top of it.

MATTHEWS: Let me go to Dr. Moreno. It seems to me if you are a
person, even if you think you might have Ebola because of the symptoms, and
the doctors say you don`t have it, then you go out and you mix with all
kinds of people because you have the sense of, well, I guess relief, even
though you still have the disease coming into you.

MORENO: Yes, I mean, ultimately the experts have to, you know, get
their act together, and I think that is happening. You know, Albert Camus
said there are always plagues and wars, and yet we`re always surprised when
there`s a plague and a war. So we have to be a little better prepared, and
I think we`re going to learn something from that episode.

MATTHEWS: Do you think the president was right to say it would be
unlikely for the disease to spread to the United States, to use that term,

MORENO: Well, you know, I think anybody who was looking at this four
or five weeks ago, who knows anything about the way these things tend to
work, once there was this outbreak in major cities in West Africa, you
know, I think most people believed, who are experts, it was going to come
here. And I think it`s -- we haven`t heard about Western Europe yet. I`m
in London tonight. I think it`s likely that there`ll be cases in Europe,
as well.

MATTHEWS: Thank you so much. Abby Phillip, thank you, from Dallas,
and thank you, Dr. Jonathan Moreno.

Coming up: George W. Bush says his brother, Jeb, wants to be
president. That`s what he says. Senator Lindsey Graham says he just might
jump into the race himself. And Mitt Romney now says this about 2016.
We`ll see what happens. That`s a lot far from no. And the Republican
field for president obviously a big mystery right now. For the first time
in a long time, there`s no front-runner at all.

Plus today, good news. The unemployment has dropped below 6 percent
for the first time since way before the financial disaster. The economy is
improving, but the middle class isn`t quite feeling it, is it. It`s poorer
now, in fact, than it was 25 years ago, according to the statistics. We`re
going to look -- go to the roundtable with that, including tonight joining
us, Ralph Nader himself, Jonathan Capehart and Michelle Bernard.

Then, do you use Uber? The ride-sharing program is the bane of
existence for taxi drives, who say it`s unregulated and poses unfair
competition. But it`s hugely popular, obviously, among young people.
Should Uber be uber alles or not?

And finally, "Let Me Finish" with the impressive news that the John F.
Kennedy Profile in Courage award has gone to President George Herbert
Walker Bush.

And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.


MATTHEWS: Well, Bill Clinton`s appearing in his first Senate
advertisement for the 2014 midterm elections. The former president
endorsed Kentucky Senate hopeful Alison Lundergan Grimes in this new ad.
Let`s watch him.


me it`s not a senator`s job to create jobs!

And I choose Alison because she will work with people in both parties
to do what`s right for you!


MATTHEWS: Not until the last dog dies. Anyway, Clinton has made
campaign stops on behalf of Grimes twice already. This ad solidifies his
support for the Kentucky Democrat. She`s up against, of course, Senate
Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who wants to be majority leader.

And we`ll be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name`s Sitza Dohar (ph). I`m a senior at the
college. And I`m vice president of the student body here...



BIDEN: Excuse me. (INAUDIBLE) vice president. I mean, whoa!


MATTHEWS: Well, ain`t that a bitch? Nobody talks like the vice
president of the United States!

Welcome back to HARDBALL. Well, being vice president -- Isn`t that a
bitch, he said. That`s our current vice president told a crowd of Harvard
students last night -- his words, not mine, of course. But the veep`s
right. Every kid in America dreams of being the president, or many do, not
the vice president.

And right now, there are a lot more Republicans eying the White House
in 2016 than there are Democrats, obviously, because of Hillary Clinton.
Democrats have their front-runner by a mile. But for the Republicans
field, it`s a jump ball. it`s a mystery, in fact, to me, absolute mystery
to me, and that`s all I think about most of the time.

In the past -- we`ve had some maneuvering at the starting gate lately,
in the past week. W is out there yelling about his brother, Jeb, wanting
to run. He`s actually speaking for his brother. We`ve got Mitt Romney
playing hard to get with "The New York Times," and Lindsey Graham, of all
people, saying he`s even thinking about running for the hawks. Then
there`s the other side, Hillary Clinton, as I mentioned. No one knows how
good a campaigner Hillary will be. Nobody knows that, maybe not even
Hillary or Bill.

Anyway, tonight, Michael Tomasky`s a special correspondent with the
DailyBeast, and John Brabender`s a Republican strategist. Gentlemen, I
want to start with the Republican here.

John, your field -- let`s start with the centrist right, center-right
potential executive, that sort of sweet spot, I call it, somebody`s been a
governor, somebody`s got experience, somebody who can compete with Hillary
in the middle. Who`s that?




MATTHEWS: ... still run?

BRABENDER: Well, I think...

MATTHEWS: You think he`s still in it?

BRABENDER: I think Chris Christie is certainly running. As you know,
there`s a lot of reports that Mitt Romney maybe is taking a look at it.

But you got to remember, the Republican Party is more complicated than
this. It`s really broken down into the social conservatives, the Tea
Party, the libertarians, and they`re broken into the hawks and doves. And
then you also have the establishment, maybe even foreign policy.

Last time, when Romney ran, he could be the establishment candidate.
This time, there`s going to be Jeb Bush potentially there, Chris Christie
potentially there. It`s a smaller box for him to fit into than it was last
time, so I actually think it`s a much more complicated race.

MATTHEWS: Why is it a smaller box?

BRABENDER: Well, there`s other people are going to be in there. Last


MATTHEWS: ... it`s a more crowded box.

BRABENDER: Yes. Last time, there was nobody else in there with him.


BRABENDER: You know, you had everybody else...

MATTHEWS: So you got a crowded box. What about on the right, the
fringe there, libertarian right? Is it now down to Rand Paul as the

BRABENDER: Well, I think so. And I think a lot fewer people are
going to say, Hey, I`m the libertarian when we see...

MATTHEWS: Because?

BRABENDER: ... what`s going on in the war.


BRABENDER: Yes. Exactly.

MATTHEWS: Watching it from the other side, what do you see?

MICHAEL TOMASKY, DAILYBEAST: Yes. I`d be surprised if Romney gets
in, personally. But that`s just a guess, just because it`s such a grind
and it`s so grueling and it`s hard to...

MATTHEWS: Why is his brother out there advancing him?

TOMASKY: You got me. No, you`re asking about Bush. I was talking
about Romney.

MATTHEWS: Oh, Romney.

TOMASKY: But you know...

MATTHEWS: Well, Romney won`t get in until Bush doesn`t.

TOMASKY: Right. Exactly. Exactly. But here`s the interesting
thing. As John just said, there`s no single establishment candidate. The
Republican Part -- going back to Tom Dewey, basically, every time, the
Republican Party has nominated, except for one, except for `64, the
Republican Party has nominated the establishment guy or the guy whose turn
it was -- you know, McCain, Dole -- and there`s no such person. There`s no
single establishment person. There`s no person whose turn it is. So
that`s why it`s all so topsy-turvy, and it`s the hardest one to predict in
my adult lifetime, I think.

MATTHEWS: Well, I think you`re on to something. I think this
international condition sort of aces out the argument you can make, which
is, Let it alone. And every time Rand Paul, who I like because I`m close
to him politically on these issues -- he just says, Leave it alone. I`m
not in there for Israel. I`m not there for us. I`m not there for anybody.
We`re staying out.

BRABENDER: Well, and I think you`ve seen articles of recent (ph)
that, is the window closing for Rand Paul, because now he seems to be out
of step not only with his own party, but potentially with all of America.
And I think that that`s becoming a problem for him.

However, don`t forget, Ron Paul set up some real votes in places like
Iowa, and so forth, that Rand Paul is going to be able to step into and get
some of those real votes. With the number of candidates there are this
time, no one`s going to win Iowa...


BRABENDER: ... with 35 percent of the vote. They`re going to win it
with 22 percent...

MATTHEWS: Can I start a fight with you, John Brabender? Because I
want to start a fight with you, OK? I want to start a fight because here`s
my question...

BRABENDER: No violence, though. No violence.

MATTHEWS: The last -- there won`t be any of that. I believe Hillary
Clinton`s last name -- and she did change it back in the `70s or whenever
it was -- is a good thing for her.


MATTHEWS: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

TOMASKY: And somebody else`s...

MATTHEWS: Clinton`s a good name. Do you agree?


MATTHEWS: OK. Is Bush a good name for Jeb? Think about it. Is that
a good name? George Bush I is followed by George Bush II, who says there
ought to be a George Bush III. How`s that sound? Do the American people
want that, a third Bush?

BRABENDER: And actually, his mother said that. If you remember, she
came out and said, I don`t think America is ready for a third Bush. And I
think that`s a problem. But there`s one other important thing. The
Republican Party...

MATTHEWS: So the word`s a problem. John Brabender, the name Bush is
a problem.

BRABENDER: I don`t think it`s a problem. I think that Jeb, though...

MATTHEWS: You just said it was two seconds ago!

BRABENDER: I`m saying...

MATTHEWS: You said it was a problem!

BRABENDER: I think the real problem for Jeb Bush is the party has
changed somewhat since his brother first got elected in 2000.


TOMASKY: Somewhat.

BRABENDER: And I think that he is -- you know, I -- some of the
issues that he`s probably going to be for, if you look at some of the
things like immigration, others -- it`s not where the party is. And so
he`s either going to have change positions, or completely change what the
party believes, and that`s impossible to do, particularly Republican
primary voters.

MATTHEWS: And you`re going to score votes on -- you`re going to win
votes this cycle on your tough immigration stand, I think, like New
Hampshire. You got a chance in New Hampshire because of that.


TOMASKY: He`s got a problem on immigration. And Bush -- I will


MATTHEWS: When your wife`s Mexican, it`s hard to have a different
position than somewhat -- some kind of compassion for people coming here
from there.

TOMASKY: By the way, I`m willing to say his last name is a problem.
That`s probably not as enticing to you as John saying it, but I`m willing
to say it.


TOMASKY: But, look, he -- he also -- you know, we call him the
establishment candidate. He`s from a big state, big important state, and
he has some moderate positions, and he`s been critical of his party`s

So he seems like he could be more electable against Hillary Clinton.
But if you look at polls, he doesn`t run that well. He doesn`t run very
well. He does not run any better than Christie. He does not run any
better than Paul.


MATTHEWS: And I think they hear the word Bush. I think they hear it.

TOMASKY: I agree.

BRABENDER: Republican primary voters don`t sit there and say, who is
the most electable? They go, who has the same policies and beliefs that I

MATTHEWS: They`re not strategic like that.


BRABENDER: No, they aren`t.

MATTHEWS: So I`m getting two answers from you. Is Bush a problem or


MATTHEWS: Is the name a problem? You did say it, though, here. We
have the tape.

BRABENDER: I think the bigger problem -- play it back. I think the
bigger problem for him is where he stands on the issues is not consistent
with Republican primary voters across the board. And I think that`s a
challenge for him.

MATTHEWS: Well, look at the flat nature of this.

If you look at the proof of the GOP field being so open, just look at
how Mitt Romney has evolved his story when talking to the press about 2016.
This is Mitt Romney. Back in January of this year, he was asked if he`d
consider running again. His response, was, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, I`m not running again."

We counted 12 no`s there.

A CNN poll came out in July, not two years -- two months ago, showing
that Romney would win a rematch against President Obama if the election
were held today 53-44. That would be Romney over Obama. Romney was asked
about running again last month, and this time he said, "Well, we will see
what happens."

What`s going on?

BRABENDER: Well, I think there`s two things going on.

One is, I think he wants to be relevant. And this isn`t a slap
against Mitt Romney, but if he says, I`m not running, no one is calling him
up on the phone. Now people like us are talking about him. He becomes

So, I that`s number one. Number two is, as you said, I would be
shocked if he ends up running. I just know how difficult it is to do. To
do it a third time is really tough. Plus...


MATTHEWS: Reagan did it and won the third time.

BRABENDER: Yes, it`s not the same as it used to be. This is
grueling, it`s much longer. And there are so many credible candidates.
And also you have to look at one there thing.

We talk about the establishment candidate. The establishment part of
the Republican Party shrinks every time. Look at why all these
establishment candidates in the Senate races have opponents. It`s a bad
thing to be the establishment candidate. It used to be something you could
run on.

So I just think it`s a very complex race for him. But, heck, my
client, Rick Santorum, thought -- everybody thought he was crazy when he
ran last time, ended winning 11 states and tying two others and almost got
the nomination. Who would have thought?


MATTHEWS: Who would have thought? That`s a great line, because who
would have thought we`d be living in a world of Ebola and a world of

The war on ISIS, for example, has reenergized the hawks in the
Republican Party. How could it not? In an interview with "The Weekly"
Standard, Senator Lindsey Graham -- and he`s a real hawk -- is now talking
about running for president. Quote: "If I get through my general election
this November, if nobody steps up in the presidential mix, if nobody`s out
there talking, me and Senator McCain have been talking. I may just jump in
to make this -- to get -- to make these arguments."

He also took on one of his rival hawks, Marco Rubio, painting him as
someone frightened of his own party -- quote -- this is a knock at Rubio --
"He`s a good guy, but after doing immigration with him, we don`t need
another young guy not quite ready. He`s no Obama by any means, but he`s
also so afraid of the right. And I have let that go," whatever that means.

TOMASKY: Yes. Well...

MATTHEWS: What`s the knock on Rubio there about?

BRABENDER: Well, I think it`s on immigration.


TOMASKY: Yes, it`s backing off on immigration.


MATTHEWS: OK. Who is going to be the Republican nominee, if you had
to bet right now, 10 bucks?

TOMASKY: If I had to bet right now, Rand Paul, but keep an eye on,
keep an eye on Kasich, Mike Pence.

MATTHEWS: I like Kasich.

BRABENDER: Yes. I`m not making a prediction because I have skin in
the game, I believe.


MATTHEWS: OK. Were those unreasonable predictions?

BRABENDER: Look, I don`t think -- I think it`s so complicated this
time, because you have a lot of credible candidates.

I`ll tell you this. It will be somebody coming out of the
conservative wing of the party, not the moderate wing of the party.
There`s never going to be in our history in the future a moderate win the
Republican nomination for presidency that we will know.

MATTHEWS: So Mitt`s around as a moderate?

BRABENDER: Conservatives are OK with Mitt, but they`re not in love
with Mitt.

MATTHEWS: Is Jeb a moderate?

BRABENDER: I think they will look at him as he`s too moderate.

MATTHEWS: Is Christie a moderate?

BRABENDER: Christie has -- Christie is the most complicated of the
bunch, because he does check the boxes, but he can make a better argument
that he`s also been an outsider and a reformer than I think either Romney


MATTHEWS: We will see what the prosecutors say about him, because
that`s a lot to do with his case. You got people watching him.

Anyway, thank you both, Mike Tomasky, Michael Tomasky, John Brabender.
Thank you.

Up next, another people effort at outreach that is coming up in the

And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.



Bush says he thinks that his brother Jeb wants to be president. George W.
Bush says he thinks Jeb wants to be president. That`s pretty scary, isn`t


LETTERMAN: George W. Bush thinking?



MATTHEWS: Back to HARDBALL and time for the "Sideshow."

A Republican ad campaign intended to show off the cultural diversity
of the GOP might be backfiring. Released earlier this month, the ad is
called "Republicans Are People Too."

And it uses an array of photographs to highlight that Republicans come
in all different shapes and sizes. They`re just folks. That`s the
message. The only problem is that the photographs of the people there you
see in the ad identified as Republicans are actually just stock
photographs. You buy them available for download on the Internet.

So Jimmy Fallon had a little fun with that controversy last night.
Here`s what he came up with.


turns out they didn`t stop there. Last night, I saw a TV ad of theirs.
It`s pretty obvious they`re using a lot of stock photos. Check it out.

NARRATOR: We here in the GOP have real solutions for real Americans,
real Americans like this old woman about to skateboard, or these two men
playing chess while a parrot watches, or this man dressed as a cowboy
drinking whiskey and pointing at his computer.


NARRATOR: We have heard from all of you, Asian couple high-fiving,
smiling man from the `90s, D.J. grandpa, man in water with apple offering a
wet apple.


NARRATOR: And little baby dressed like a businesswoman. And we`re
ready to fight for you.


FALLON: A very diverse group of voters.


MATTHEWS: Next up, there``s another new ad out this week. This one
is a parody by the College Republican National Committee. Its idea was to
target young woman with a political spoof of the TLC reality series "Say
Yes to the Dress."

The ad likens voting for one candidate over another to shopping for a
wedding dress. They have made several different versions, but here`s one
supporting Republican Governor Rick Scott against his Democratic opponent,
Charlie Crist, in the Florida gubernatorial election. Let`s take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Budget is a big deal for me now that I just
graduated from college.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Rick Scott is perfect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rick Scott is becoming a trusted brand. He has
new ideas that don`t break your budget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But mom has other ideas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like the Charlie Crist. It`s expensive and a
little outdated, but I know best.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I will be paying this off for the rest of my

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We cannot let her walk out of the voting booth
like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mom, this is my decision. And I see a better
future with Rick Scott.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes, it`s hard to let go of old styles, but
it all worked out in the end, because Britney said yes to Rick Scott.



MATTHEWS: I don`t know what to make of that thing.

Anyway, up next, the roundtable. Good news for President Obama on
jobs today. He got the lowest unemployment rate since the great recession.
So why is the middle class being left behind? We will see.

We have got the sights and sounds from the campaign trail. And it got
ugly last night, by the way, in the Connecticut gubernatorial debate
between Democrat Governor Dan Malloy, who I think is a good guy, and
challenger Republican Tom Foley, who once served as ambassador to Ireland.
Let`s watch these two guys.


integrity several times tonight, and I have kept quiet about it. But I can
look at what`s going on in other places and understand that people don`t
always do what you do, Tom.

They don`t bankrupt companies, they don`t lay off workers, they don`t
treat people the way that you have treated them in the past. You have
questioned me and questions my integrity, Tom. I would not have done that
to you, nor would I have raised these subjects, but for the fact that you
have gone a little over the top.

were a prosecutor. You were a better prosecutor I guess than you are a
governor, sir. You, sir, were investigated for corruption in Stamford.
You were investigated for corruption.

MALLOY: What you were doing, Tom, was trying to imply that somehow
I`m corrupt. I`m not.

FOLEY: Listen, we can either call a truce on this stuff, which I
think would serve the Connecticut citizens well, or we can keep it going,



breaking news.

The family of Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan left the apartment
where he had been staying while visiting them. They had been in isolation
at that residence.

President Obama is condemning the murder of British aid worker Alan
Henning by ISIS. He called Henning`s a great loss.

And the U.S. has suffered its first casualty in the air campaign to
destroy against ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Corporal Jordan Spears was lost at
sea on Wednesday after bailing out of an aircraft that experienced trouble
during takeoff -- back to HARDBALL.

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.

We have got great new jobs numbers in the country. The unemployment
rate actually dropped down to 5.9 percent, the lowest rate since before the
financial crash which President Obama inherited. The job gains were higher
than expected, with almost 250,000 jobs, in other words, a quarter-million
new jobs just in September.

I`m joined right now by the roundtable, Ralph Nader, whose new book is
"Unstoppable: The Emerging Left-Right Alliance to Dismantle the Corporate
State," Michelle Bernard, president of the Bernard Center for Women,
Politics and Public Policy, and Jonathan Capehart, who is an opinion writer
with "The Washington Post" and an MSNBC political analyst.

As I said, jobs numbers, with unemployment at its lowest rate since
2008, that`s all good news, but, economically, the middle class remains
stuck in neutral. A headline from "The Washington Post" puts it starkly.
The middle class is poorer today than it was in 1989.

And these are some of the reasons. Only 9.2 percent, about one in 10,
of the middle -- that`s the 20 percent of households in the country -- even
owns stocks. So this bull market has been no help to 90.8 percent of the

And 63 percent of the same people also own their own homes, but the
values of which took a huge hit because of the housing -- when the bubble
burst. So we got a problem.

Let`s talk about that.

Ralph, this middle that you think is the heart of the country, you
would think would be benefiting when all boats rise with the tide. It`s
not happening.

sucked into the growing, swelling number of low-income people.

The word poor people are not words uttered by the Democratic Party.
It`s all middle class, middle class, as it shrinks into tens of millions of
poor people who are making less today than 1968 adjusted for inflation.

So, what we`re putting forward here is the minimum wage, which the
Democrats are finally talking about. But if we want to get things done,
you heard it first on this program, there`s a discharge petition that the
Democrats filed in late February and then forgot about, but they got 195
members on it to bypass Speaker Boehner`s blocking of a vote on $10.10
minimum wage on the floor.

It just needs 23 more, and it bypasses them...


NADER: ... and after the election in the lame-duck session.

And 30 million people over a period of three years will get a raise to
meet 1968...

MATTHEWS: Are those -- are those Republicans they have to get?


MATTHEWS: They have to get...

NADER: It cuts right on that line.

But there are a lot of Republican districts -- and we have got them on
give1010avote.org. There are about 50 Republican districts where Obama won
it in 2012.

MATTHEWS: Well, give us the names, Ralph, and we will start pushing
them, because I`m looking at places like where I grew up, Delaware County,
Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and places like that.

NADER: That`s right.

MATTHEWS: Are those guys aboard?


MATTHEWS: Meehan, Fitzpatrick, those guys?

NADER: No. You can get it on give1010avote.org. They`re all listed

But listen to this. To show you out of the mainstream the senator --
the senator -- Republican senators and Democrats in the House, Tim
Pawlenty, Republican governor, former, Rick Santorum, for higher minimum


NADER: Mitt Romney, higher minimum wage. Phyllis Schlafly, higher
minimum wage. They want less focus on public assistance. People can earn
more, they don`t have to have more food stamp and housing assistance.

Boehner and McConnell are isolated, and the Democrats are playing


MATTHEWS: OK. Let`s go to why the Republicans in office who are
still running for office are afraid of minimum wage, and the people that
get out of it are for it, as Ralph suggests.

POLICY: Well, because the people who get out of it aren`t running for
office any longer. They`re not worried about being voted out by the far
right of the party.


BERNARD: Speaking to what you said, though, I would like to make a

Phyllis Schlafly and everyone else, Santorum, Pawlenty that are for
increasing the minimum wage, I would love to see them caucus with the
Congressional Black Caucus in -- here in Washington.

The unemployment rate for African-Americans hasn`t moved. It`s 11
percent. Last month, it was 11.8 percent. At the height of the recession,
it was 16 percent.

MATTHEWS: And this may be the end of this recovery at some point.
That`s what I worry about.

BERNARD: This is the end of this recovery.


BERNARD: And if you`re African-American, the jobs numbers are

MATTHEWS: Jon, this is the problem with the business cycle we live
in. And we live it, which is, you know, it grows and grows and then it
pops again, you know? We can`t expect it to be over?

CAPEHART: No. You know, I actually like your idea, Michelle, of
having these folks work with the Congressional Black Caucus to actually do
something about this.

BERNARD: Wouldn`t you like to see the meeting --


MATTHEWS: Well, Ralph, the only problem is finding politically alive
Republicans who will join this meeting. It`s only the emeritus Republicans
that are doing this.

NADER: But the argument for minimum wage is to reduce the pressure to
use tax dollars for public assistance. So, they come at it from that way.
And that`s a hardcore conservative position.

BERNARD: But you make the entire middle class part of the working
poor. Make them all unemployed or close to unemployed, sort of relegate
people to a permanent underclass status, everyone`s going to be on food
stamps. So, the argument really works against them.

MATTHEWS: What makes me suspect that their immigration policy and
their minimum wage policy are the same? What they want is cheap, illegal
labor in the country, that they can pay anything they want to make beds,
cut lawns, whatever, keep it well below 10 bucks. Come on! Anybody think
these guys getting 10 bucks?

BERNARD: What about the border, the border!

MATTHEWS: They always like the border, but they want cheap labor.

NADER: That`s why "The Wall Street Journal" wants open borders.
They`re siding with that.

MATTHEWS: Let`s -- the market is not the way to get your visa stamped
anyway, in my opinion. But let me talk about this other thing.

You know, I`m looking at the Republican Party and I just had a
discussion with one of the most conservative guys we have on the show all
the time, Brabender. They don`t have a candidate, which is remarkable
because they have a chance. Everybody knows with Hillary, it will be
50/50. The chance is 50/50.

Where`s their party? They don`t have anybody.

CAPEHART: Well, actually, they do -- they have lots of people. The
only problem is, the people who could actually --

MATTHEWS: How about a grown-up?

CAPEHART: -- give Hillary Clinton a run for her money, can`t get the
nomination. I mean, that`s the problem of the dynamic of the Republican

MATTHEWS: I`m now going to cause trouble. Ralph, I have to cause
trouble. If you have a Democrat centrist like Hillary Clinton running,
she`s Hubert Humphrey. She`s no lefty. And then -- on anything, she`s
probably more hawkish than most Democrats.

NADER: By far.

MATTHEWS: And then you go get the Republicans running a real right-
winger, will there be a third-party candidate?

NADER: I think so. Maybe a fourth party, maybe a fourth party.

MATTHEWS: How about a third?

NADER: There may be two.

MATTHEWS: OK. On the left, who would run on the left?

NADER: On the left, maybe a spin-off, you know, the senator from


NADER: Yes, he could spin off.

MATTHEWS: Would you back him?

NADER: Well, I like his anti-war and he`s a veteran.

MATTHEWS: I like that part too.

NADER: And he`s got a lot of good views.

We cannot have an empress nominated. I mean, what is this, America?
They`re already writing off the entire primary for the Democratic Party.

BERNARD: Calling her an empress is like the thing that we heard
people calling the president. What do they call the president?

NADER: Emperor.


BERNARD: The emperor, or the tyrant. I think that`s a little unfair.

NADER: She`s a militarist and a corporatist.


MATTHEWS: What is she supposed to do? Lay down and let somebody beat

NADER: She should be the Hillary Clinton of 1970.

CAPEHART: What we should have, what`s needed is a Republican
candidate who can actually come to the table with some real ideas that are
worthy of debate, and not the cartoon characters that we saw in 2012. And
going back to the point I was making before, the problem that the
Republican Party has is, it has a base that loves cartoons, but a nation
that is looking for leadership.

So, Chris Christie, Portman, Kasich, maybe even Scott Walker, all
these grown-ups --


MATTHEWS: A good portion of the party is still thinking Obama is from
West Africa.

CAPEHART: Hence the cartoon.

BERNARD: And quite frankly, in a primary, what did they do for even
the most normal Republican? What do they do for the party of the party
that is anti-black, anti-gay, and anti-women?

MATTHEWS: I`m touching you. That means we got to go back.

We`ll be right back. We`re going to talk about something smaller, but
just (INAUDIBLE) line. Should we have restrain of trade? Should cab
drivers with their medallions which cost a quarter million bucks in some
cities? Should they be able to stop the transfer and competition from
Uber? Or will Uber be uber alles?

We`ll be right back in a minute with more politics.


MATTHEWS: Got some new poll numbers this Friday night in key races
across the country.

Let`s check the HARDBALL scoreboard. According to Marquette
University poll, Republican Governor Scott Walker is five points ahead of
Democrat Mary Burke right now among likely voters. It looks good for him,

In New Jersey, a Quinnipiac University poll has Republican Jeff Bell
trailing Senator Corey Booker by 11. Booker 51, bet on him. Bell, forget

And Wednesday, a state court in Kansas ruled that Democrats won`t be
forced to replace their candidate for the Senate race. So, it`s just the
independent Orman and Republican Senator Pat Roberts on the ballot in
November. Orman recently has a five-point lead.

By the way, Orman will win. But if the Democrats pick up six seats,
he`ll be the seventh.

And we`ll be right back.


MATTHEWS: We`re back with the roundtable. Michelle Bernard, Ralph
Nader himself and Jonathan Capehart.

And now to the taxi versus Uber debate. Taxi companies want to punish
or even ban the popular hassle-free Uber ride sharing app because cabs are
having trouble competing with Uber`s lower prices and what some call better
service. Recently, a panel of 40 economists were asked if Uber should be
allowed to compete on equal footing with taxi companies without price and
route restrictions. All 40 of them agreed and sided with Uber that
competition is a good thing.

And one of the panelists was President Obama`s former chair of the
Council of Economic Advisers, Austan Goolsbee. He enthusiastically
supports competition from Uber saying, yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.

What do you make of this, Jonathan? You`re a young fella, and, you
like to look in your computer and phone and call up a car.


MATTHEWS: And these are not union?


MATTHEWS: They`re not registered? Anybody can do it, right?

CAPEHART: I mean, you have to go through some checks and things with
Uber, but it`s like I can show up and go pick you up a corner.

But here is why I like Uber and especially here in --

MATTHEWS: They`re insured, right?


Here`s what I like about Uber, especially here in Washington -- I can
get a cab wherever I am, when I want it, within three to five minutes, the
person either knows where they`re going or is willing to let me tell them
how to get to go where I want to go and it`s cheap and in the key thing, I
don`t have to have cash on me. I enter my credit card information, Uber
takes, that way once I hit "confirm car", the car comes and it pays.

And here is the other thing --


MATTHEWS: Are they guilty of the old cab driver thing of not
minorities to certain neighborhoods?

CAPEHART: That was a point I want to make. As a black man, I love
Uber because Uber picks me up and takes me where I want to go, no more this
nonsense of hailing a cab and having the cab driver saying I`m not going to
going or passing me by.

BERNARD: Or just drive by.

CAPEHART: Driving by.

MATTHEWS: Ralph, I never had to predict your ideological suasion
here. Which are you going on this? Is this an open market issue, a
restrain of trade? What is it? What do you for here?

NADER: Equal protection of the laws. Cab drivers, and they have
their abuses. If they have to meet certain safety, insurance and driver
qualifications, so should any other competition. You got two economies
here where you don`t know who is picking you up. You don`t know the
quality of the car itself, and the cutthroat competition is now putting
more of these cars on the road.

So, you got people getting part-time change challenging people who
have full-time careers to support their families. There`s a lot of
conflicts of rights here. It hasn`t settled yet, and when it settles, I
think you`re going to see a stronger effort to put them all under common
regulation, even though if you open it up.

MATTHEWS: Regulation would mean you have to be bonded, you have to
have an insurance policy of some kind to protect liability, right? You go
to pay somebody if you get in an accident.

BERNARD: Well, absolutely. The thing to remember about Uber, I would
disagree on the chump change part of it, the people you talk to who are
Uber drivers are loving Uber because they can supplement their income in
very large numbers. I mean, there are drivers who will talk to you and
tell you that they`re making easily a few hundred -- a few hundred dollars
to $1,000 extra per week.

MATTHEWS: Are they cab drivers? What are they? Are they limousine
drivers? What are they?

CAPEHART: No, they come from all walks of life. Some might be
limousine drivers. Some might be part-time teachers, some might be
computer programmers, they do all sorts of jobs but the other thing about
Uber is that when you get that car, when you get the confirmation a car is
coming you get the name, you license plate, and the picture.

And if you need to reach them before they get to you, you can hit
"contact driver" and call them. So, it`s not like you`re being picked up
by some random stranger.

MATTHEWS: It sounds like airlines with brand new flight attendants in
their 20s, no veterans, no packages to pay for. They got a brand new
airline, they have no union, no pensions to pay for, and for a few years,
it`s the greatest deal in the world because they have no responsibilities.

NADER: What`s happening is -- interesting, you it hasn`t all settled
yet. For example, in Orange County, California, there are so many Uber
drivers and Lyft drivers who are competing against each other. They`re not
getting rides.

They`re riding around, polluting the air, congesting traffic for less
and less money. So, it hasn`t settled out yet.

BERNARD: Well --

NADER: And Lyft and Uber are really fighting it out.

MATTHEWS: What`s Lyft?

NADER: Lyft is a competitor.

BERNARD: It`s like Uber.

CAPEHART: The moustaches on the front of the car, which I don`t get.

MATTHEWS: And these are freelance people?

NADER: Right. And they`re beginning to take larger commissions,
cutting the amounts drivers get. They`re cutting corners. So, that`s why
we have to have uniform regulation. You may want to change the regulation,
you want to break some taxi cab cartel, et cetera, but you got to have
uniform regulation. Otherwise, people who have families and they are full-
time cab drivers, are going to unfairly suffer.

BERNARD: Well, I will tell you -- my father was a cab driver. He
drove a cab here in Washington in the 1960s where every place fired him
because he refused to walk through the back door. He did this while he was
in dental school to provide for all four his young children at the time.

I would tell you --

MATTHEWS: What do you mean refused to walk through the back door?
What do you mean?

BERNARD: Well, he would show up at a country club and they would say
come through the back door, he would say, "I`m a man, I`m not walking
through anybody`s back door".

MATTHEWS: That explains you.

BERNARD: That explains me. And I would tell you, if Uber existed
then he would be with Uber today.

MATTHEWS: Write a book, would you?

BERNARD: OK, would you be my editor?

MATTHEWS: It`s an honor. Thank you, Ralph. I love this kind of
debate because nobody else is having them. Thank you.

Thanks to tonight`s round table. Of course, Michelle Bernard, Ralph
Nader himself -- I love to say that -- and Jonathan Capehart.

We`ll be right back.


MATTHEWS: Let me finish tonight with the news that John F. Kennedy
Profile in Courage Award is going to President George Herbert Walker Bush,
that`s the first President Bush. He`s being honored for his courage back
in 1990 in cutting into the growing federal deficits of that era. He did
so by cutting a deal with congressional Democrats to hit the deficit from
both sides, spending cuts and revenue increases. Because he did that, he
created the economic balance that brought on the era of economic growth in
the `90s and creation of actual budget surpluses in the `90s.

When this was happening, I was Washington bureau chief of "The San
Francisco Examiner", and here`s what I wrote of President Bush`s gutsy
decision back then, which I believed then and I believe now was in the
country`s interest. Quote, "This week, George Bush took the difficult step
of ending Republican Party`s economic isolationism. It was not fun.
Instead of asking the country as he did in 1988 to read his lips, he gave
the media a chance to read us his clips. All those frisky statements he
made as candidate about never raising taxes."

Well, the president gave two reasons for his change of heart,
economics and politics. He said he needed revenue to help cut the deficit
and he couldn`t get those revenues without taking the heat, personally.

What Mr. Bush did not mention, which he should have, is a third reason
for his dramatic switch on fiscal policy. It deals with the country`s
international role. No American president could continue to meet with the
leading industrialized nations as Mr. Bush will in July in the seat marked
"world`s biggest deadbeat." As a country, we cannot continue selling U.S.
treasury bonds on a world market simply to pay our government`s basic
operating expenses and expect to be treated as the globe`s post-Cold War

To his credit, the president took the lead here. He declared his
support for tax revenue increases, and cited two reasons, the size of
deficit problem and the need for a budget plan that can be enacted. And
that`s politics that works.

And that`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.


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