All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, October 3rd, 2014
Read the transcript from the Friday show
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: October 3, 2014
Guest: Anthony Fauci, Craig Watkins, Leonard Mermel, Nancy Northup,
Russell Wilson, Teena Shetty, Dave Zirin
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s obviously scared to death. The last 24 hours
have been incredibly difficult for him.
HAYES: The NBC News cameraman infected with Ebola is coming home, as
the federal government puts all hands on deck.
LISA MONACO, SECURITY ADVISER: Every Ebola outbreak over the past 40
years has been stopped. We know how to do this and we will do it again.
HAYES: Tonight, after one hospital dropped the ball, the drumbeat to
stop all travel from West Africa picks up.
THOM TILLIS (R), NORTH CAROLINA SENATE CANDIDATE: I think we need to
take steps to ban travel until we know we`ve got this situation under
HAYES: Then --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Texas abortion regulations can take effect as
HAYES: The historic ruling that sets up the biggest abortion fight in
And a Super Bowl champion takes domestic violence head-on.
RUSSELL WILSON: Help me pass the peace, by holding up the universal
HAYES: Tonight, my excusive interview with Super Bowl champion
WILSON: I passed the peace to my friends Derek Jeter and Justin
HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
Breaking news from Dallas, Texas, tonight, where city and county
officials are expected to give us the latest on how they`re handling the
nation`s first case of Ebola. We will bring you to that press conference
when it begins.
First, we have just learned that the family of Thomas E. Duncan, the
Ebola patient in Dallas, Texas, left the apartment where they had been
placed under quarantine. This is the apartment where Duncan became ill and
where his sheets and dirty towels have remained until earlier today, when
finally, a five full days after Duncan checked into a Dallas hospital,
hazmat truck appeared outside the apartment to remove the contaminated
materials, according to Dallas officials, towels, sheets and one mattress
Just tonight, the family was taken to an undisclosed location in
Dallas County, a private residence in a gated community away from other
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANA SYED, PUBLIC INFORMATIO OFFICER, DALLAS: As you all probably
just saw, the family has been removed from the apartment complex. This is
not because they were a threat to anyone in this complex, it`s because the
county and the city was trying to remove the family from this area so that
residents here were not fearful. They are asymptomatic. All four people
in that apartment are asymptomatic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Back in Washington, almost two weeks after Ebola patient
Thomas E. Duncan flew to the United States, U.S. health officials are
defending themselves against questions about how the Dallas Ebola case has
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONACO: The United States is prepared to deal with this crisis, both
at home and in the region. Every Ebola outbreak over the past 40 years has
been stopped. We know how to do this. And we will do it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: U.S. officials stress that they were prepared and had been
preparing for a potential outbreak.
While a number of Republican politicians are calling for a ban from
travel from select West African countries. Yesterday, Senator Ted Cruz
calling the FAA to, quote, "take every available precaution to prevent the
spread of Ebola to the U.S."
Today, Republican Senate candidate Thom Tillis from North Carolina
echoed that message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLIS: I think that we need to take steps to ban travel until we
know we`ve got this situation under control from countries like Liberia,
Guinea and Sierra Leone, at least.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: But even as calls for some sort of travel ban from affected
countries increase, U.S. health officials maintain a travel ban is not
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONACO: This outbreak began in March of this year. And since that
time and since the screening measures that we`ve discussed from this podium
began over the summer, there have been tens of thousands of individuals who
have come to this country from the affected region, and we have now seen
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: House has now scheduled a hearing on Ebola case later in the
Meanwhile, U.S. today announced it will deploy more forces to Liberia
to help contain the disease there, saying today that as many as 4,000
troops could be sent to the country.
Ashoka Mokpo, the freelance cameraman working with NBC News in
Liberia, was tested positive for Ebola, is preparing to fly to the U.S., to
the University of Nebraska Medical Center this Sunday for treatment.
Mokpo`s father was one of the first to hear from his son after that
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MITCHELL LEVY, MOKPO`S FATHER: He texted me and he said, "Dad,
you need to answer the phone, I think I`m in trouble." And I immediately
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Dr. Nancy Snyderman and three other NBC employees working with
Mokpo will be flown back to U.S. as well and put in quarantine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. NANCY SNYDERMAN, NBC NEWS: We start the 21-day quarantine with
the firm belief that we`ll come out the other end OK and we believe that
our co-worker is also going to be fine and we just want the world`s eyes to
remain focused on Liberia and we will be back to continue to cover this
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me is Dr. Anthony Fauci. He`s director of the
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National
Institutes of Health. He was at the press conference today in Washington.
All right. Doctor, you talk first about the travel ban idea which is
gaining currency I think in certain political circles, as politicians have
looked for how to respond to this. Why do you think this is a bad idea?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: Well, historically,
whenever you try to block off or cordon off and not allow the free back and
forth from a country, you essentially exacerbate the problem that`s there.
It will be difficult getting supplies in and out. It will be very
difficult to get people who want to go there and help and to be evacuated
if they need to.
Almost every single public health official, including myself, feels
that that kind of draconian approach to curtailing an epidemic doesn`t work
and, in fact, can paradoxically cause more harm than good. So, there`s
pretty universal feeling about that.
HAYES: So, I want to lay out a dynamic I think is at play here, and
get your take on. And my father works in public health, I have tremendous
respect for public health officials. You guys do amazing work.
But what you are experts, and you`re basically telling folks, be calm,
be rational, we have this under control, and I think two things are in
play. One, people feel like one case that showed newspaper an American
hospital and we screwed that one up. So, how can we be sure we were not
going to screw up anything else? And, number two is basically anytime
anyone in the society says don`t worry, we have it under control, whether
it`s, you know, Wall Street or people in Washington, it turns out they
don`t have it under control.
My question is, why should we trust you? Why should we trust the
public health leaders and apparatus in this country to get this right?
FAUCI: Because if you look at the evidence of the fact there won`t be
an outbreak -- I mean, a person coming here was something that was almost
inevitable. In fact, I discussed that on the show that sooner or later, we
were going to have someone who would get through, without a fever, who
would be asymptomatic and ultimately get to the United States and get sick
while they`re here.
You`re absolutely correct there was a misstep in the communication
about this person when he first went to the emergency room on the 26th of
September. But a lot of things did go right with the case. First, the
person is now in isolation, has been under treatment. The people who are
taking care of him are well-protected for their own safety.
And the contact tracing, which is the fundamental foundation of how
you prevent an outbreak from coming, is being implemented. And that`s the
reason why we say even though there may be a misstep and there was -- no
one`s denying that -- the fact that the protocols that are in place now
would be very, very, very important in assuring people that we won`t have
HAYES: And the contact tracing I think is pretty accessible to folks.
It`s not rocket science, right? You find the people he might have exposed,
you make sure they`re monitored and/or quarantined, people they might have
contacted, you monitor them, and you just keep your eyes on them and make
sure they can`t spread it. But they can -- and this is important -- only
spread it when they`re symptomatic, right?
FAUCI: That`s perfectly true. An important to point out is that we
have been dealing with outbreaks since -- in Southern and Central Africa
since 1976, and all of them have been brought under control, even under
much less advanced public health capabilities that those countries have.
We feel confident we can contain it because we have the capability of doing
that type of isolation and contact tracing.
HAYES: And we should also emphasize, Ebola as terrifying as it is,
actually is less transmissible than a whole lot of other things, from HIV,
all the way up to measles.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, thank you very much.
FAUCI: You`re welcome.
HAYES: And, yesterday, Liberian officials said they would be
prosecuting Ebola patient Thomas E. Duncan for lying on an airport health
President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf herself called him leaving the
country, quote, "unpardonable."
Well, today, Dallas County district attorney said he was looking into
charges of his own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG WATKINS, DALLAS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We are actively
having discussions as to whether we need to look in this as relates to a
criminal matter. If it warrants a Dallas County prosecution, then we will
pursue it. But it may be more of a federal issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now is Craig Watkins, Dallas County district
Mr. Watkins, isn`t this putting a cart before the horse a bit? I
mean, this guy has Ebola. We don`t know if he`s going to survive. He
apparently contracted it by helping a pregnant woman who was dying out of a
cab when she was turned away from a hospital. It seems a bit odd to me to
be talking about the possibility of prosecution.
WATKINS: Well, you know, we have a responsibility to protect citizens
of Dallas County, and if this individual knowingly and intentionally and
even recklessly put the citizens of Dallas County in harm`s way, then we
have a responsibility to at least look into the possibility of criminal
HAYES: Are you guys going to indict him and arraign him and bring him
WATKINS: You know, that`s our part of what we`re looking into. So,
this is a very delicate situation.
You mentioned the HIV/AIDS issues. We prosecuted individuals that
have knowingly and intentionally and recklessly put individuals in harm`s
way as relates to AIDS. And so, this is no different. But this is the
And so, we have to take into consideration that if we put him in jail
or bring him to the courthouse, there is a possibility that he may infect
other individuals. But in order for us to be responsible and prudent as
relates to public safety and criminal activity, we need to look at it.
HAYES: What precisely would be the legal basis for prosecution if, in
fact, it turned out he had come here even knowing he had contracted the
disease, which at this point has not been at all factually definitely
WATKINS: It hasn`t been established yet. But we have to look at it.
But if the evidence shows that he knew he had the disease, got on a
plane and flew to Dallas and then put individuals in Dallas County in
harm`s way, then he could conceivably be indicted for aggravated assault.
HAYES: OK. Aggravated assault. You think you`re going to wait and
see if he recovers first before you move forward on any of this?
WATKINS: Well, this is -- these are great questions, but this issue
we`re dealing with is in the premature stages. We actually just started
having this conversation literally two days ago as to whether or not we
need to look into it. We`ve received some complaints.
And so, as the elected D.A., I have a responsibility to look into
HAYES: Dallas County district Craig Watkins, thank you very much.
WATKINS: Thank you.
HAYES: Joining me Dr. Leonard Mermel. He`s medical director to the
Department of Infection Control at Rhode Island Hospital.
Now, Doctor, you there in Rhode Island there is a very big West
African community, Liberian community, your hospital has been under taking
procedures and preparation for the possibility of something like we`ve seen
in Dallas due to just how many folks you have living around your hospital`s
area that have relatives there that are going back and forth from Liberia.
What have you guys been doing?
DR. LEONARD MERMEL, RHODE ISLAND HOSPITAL: Well, Chris, what we`ve
been doing is several weeks ago, we developed a policy whereby any patient
that comes into our emergency department is automatically screened right
off the bat by the triage nurse, asking questions regarding travel in the
last three weeks and any of the myriad of symptoms, nausea, vomiting,
diarrhea, fever, any symptoms might be suggestive of Ebola.
If the person answers yes, they`re immediately removed from the
waiting area, the emergency department, whisked into a negative pressure
room which is above and beyond what the CDC requires. Then we initiate
maximum precautions with personal protective equipment to go into the room.
At that point, a medical team determines whether or not that travel
involved the country using data from the CDC, where Ebola is actively
spreading. If that`s the case, they go further down an algorithm that
we`ve developed, ask questions about the potential exposure and based on
that, we contact the health department, the infection control team, if it`s
low or high risk, based on CDC criteria, we would initiate the hospital
incident command center.
HAYES: OK. So, this is a very thought through, prepared and
MERMEL: Yes, my 15th draft of the algorithm. So, we spent a lot of
HAYES: You spent a lot of time thinking about it, because you have a
particular exposure because of the demographic makeup of the folks that are
living around you. But one of the things illustrated by the Dallas case,
of course, is that it could be any one of the 5,700 hospital in the U.S.
MERMEL: Right, I think people as such as myself in charge of
infection control programs across the U.S., if the likelihood is 1 percent
or 100 percent, they have to be prepared, at the same level of
So, I`ve been doing this. Of course, as an impetus to do it with our
large Liberian population, but people in my position should be doing it
anyway because of the possibility someone could be at their hospital on
their door with a contagious illness such as Ebola.
HAYES: And so, are you confident right now that the same protocols
are being disseminated and practice ad crossed 5,700-plus hospitals across
the country? Because we had one case so far, and we kind of went 0 for 1,
first one that showed up in the E.R., you know, you would hope at this
point, whatever protocols have been disseminated throughout the entire
country and are going to be observed pretty carefully, right?
MERMEL: Yes, the CDC has recently disseminated a similar algorithm
across the country. I think hospitals need to double down. I think based
on the experience of Dallas, it will give a much greater sense of urgency
to everybody, be it a small community hospital, large academic center
across the country, take this seriously, they got to protect themselves,
protect their staff. We know from SARS, we know from pandemic influenza,
if our staff don`t feel safe, then they may not be the ones that come in
and volunteer and take care of our patients.
So, we need to do everything, working with -- having our backs covered
by administration, having a team effort throughout the hospital, do the
educational training of the personal protective equipment, make it easy for
people to do the right things and get moving.
HAYES: Dr. Leonard Mermel, thank you so much.
MERMEL: My pleasure.
HAYES: OK. As we mentioned we`re monitoring the possibility of a
press conference that might start in Dallas on the latest Ebola case there.
In the meantime, there used to be 42 abortion clinics in Texas, which
is, of course, a large state. Now, there are eight. And in 2011, 73,000
women in Texas had an abortion. The math is not good.
What happened overnight that`s made things even worse in Texas, ahead.
HAYES: At this point, Dallas officials are giving a press conference
on latest developments in Dallas Ebola case. Let`s take a listen.
JUDGE CLAY JENKINS, DALLAS COUNTY: And they can be left alone for a
few days at least, in that undisclosed location and our hope is people that
live around the apartment complex that they were in, that their lives can
get back to normal.
I want to thank the owner of the apartment complex for their
understanding in this. The Vickery Meadows neighborhood association,
Jennifer Sstaubach Gates (ph), who went door to door, our health
department, everybody who worked on this. Our friends in the faith
community who made the move that we were able to do today possible, as well
as our state and our federal partners.
An update on the house is, the contractors are inside. They finalized
phase one probably by now or in the next few minutes. They`ll finish up
their work tonight and then they`ll secure the building. Dr. Lakey and the
state are working on a court order to keep the -- for the apartment to keep
it secure and quarantine until we can begin phase two.
Materials will be moved to an undisclosed secure area by the Dallas
County fire marshal. I`m not sure if that is still correct, because my
understanding was DOT was going to get the permit here, so we can get that
taken care off. Either they got the permit here or we`re going to take
care of it. A separate vendor has permit required to move materials to
their final destination and apparently working with them over the weekend
on that process.
Our EOC will continue to be activated. They`ll monitor these matters
over the weekend. I want to thank my executive staff as well and our team
in Homeland Security Emergency Management and Dallas County Health and
Human Services who we stood up that ICS model and took command of the
situation at 8:30 and people -- 8:30 in the morning yesterday, and people
have worked very hard. It hasn`t moved as quickly as I would like but as
quickly as was possible under the circumstances.
So, with that, you`re brought up to speed. I`m going to turn the mike
over to David, to Dave Daigle at CDC.
DAVID DAIGLE, CDC: Good evening and thanks for having us.
My update is very short. We worked on contact tracing today. I think
you`ve seen the new numbers or what we call the contact tracing numbers
went from the list of 100 we call potential or possible cases, down to 50
and 10 that we are now tracing actively, and teams were out today working
with the county and state. And that`s it for us today.
MAYOR MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS: Thank you.
We`re making progress. The city and the county has stepped up at
every opportunity to make sure this city is as safe as it can be and I feel
good about it. I feel that citizens are safe and that we`re doing
everything possible to make it a reality.
I want to say thank you to Judge Jenkins. His leadership in the last
48 hours has been remarkable and we have been proud to serve on his team.
The movement of this family was a moving moment for me. Judge Jenkins
met them at their apartment, drove them in the car down to this location
and I welcomed them and we both saw them say thank you and it was an
important moment, I think, for this family, for the county and the city and
I think for the citizens of this town.
We continue to work closely with CDC, thank you for your effort. They
were out this afternoon talking to all residents and continuing the
communication about the facts of this disease.
Remember, there is zero chance that you can get this disease if you
don`t have contact with somebody that is actively showing symptoms of this.
There is only one person in this city of Dallas that is actively showing
and they are at Presbyterian Hospital and they are quarantined and safe.
We`re making sure we go through those 50 people to prioritize them and
low and high risk and having the appropriate protocol to work with each of
We want to make sure that you understand that we are educating and re-
educating all of the public with our 311 numbers, and to make sure that if
anybody gets sick, to please call 911. Our paramedics have been trained on
this and will get to you quickly and make sure that you are taken care of.
Now, the weekend is at hand. There is a lot going on. We just had
the blessing of the animals in Clyde Warren Park and a lot of people showed
up. Tomorrow, tonight is football season, tomorrow is state fair. I want
everybody to get out and have a good time.
On Tuesday night, we`re having our national night out. And all of the
neighborhoods are going to get together. I spoke to CDC and said, is that
safe, and they said absolutely.
We`ve got to get out and show the spirit of Dallas, Texas.
I want to have a personal thank you to the Dallas press. Your
professionalism and how you`ve handled this makes me proud.
There have been reports around the nation that Dallas is fearful. And
I`ve talked to a lot of people. We`re all a little anxious but there is no
fear in our eyes.
We will be safe. We will get this done in the appropriate way and I`m
proud of the professionalism that we`ve shown.
It`s very important that get these kids to school and that`s why
Superintendent Miles is here to talk about next week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mayor. Our priorities for the last
week have been three-fold. Safety of our students --
HAYES: All right. We`ll be right back.
HAYES: All right. As of this morning, there are now no more than
eight abortion clinics left standing in the state of Texas. That`s eight
abortion providers for a state of 27 million people, a state that covers
nearly 270,000 square miles, eight clinics all located in the state`s
largest cities, leaving 900,000 women, more than 150 miles away from access
to a safe abortion they might need.
But 15 months, before the state legislature passed the draconian new
anti-abortion law, full of medically unnecessary regulations targeted at
abortion providers and designed to shut them. There were more than 40
clinics in the state.
As soon as the bill was passed and signed into law by Governor Rick
Perry in the summer last year, the clinic closures started. The latest
round of closures which happened essentially overnight last night came as a
three-judge panel, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals sided with the state of
Texas and allowed it to enforce some of the new laws most aggressive
One way or another, the case is widely expected to be appealed to the
Supreme Court. A court that is more conservative than it was when Roe V.
Wade was decided 41 years ago, and a court with four members over the age
of 75, which means its composition when the case would reach them is
uncertain, which means that as the court begins its new term on this
Monday, the highest stakes abortion case in more than 20 years could be
heading its way. And the outcome of that case, and thus the very meaning
to safe and legal abortion in America is very far from certain.
Joining me now is Nancy Northup. She`s president of the Center of
Reproductive Rights. The group argued against the state of Texas in court.
OK. So, this law has a host of regulations and facilities that
provide abortions. Am I correct?
NANCY NORTHUP, CENTER FOR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS: That is right.
HAYES: OK. Those regulations are as we see fairly onerous, in so far
as compliance has meant that the vast majority of clinics have had to shut
NORTHUP: That`s right.
HAYES: The crazy thing here is, and what I find fascinating about the
whole thing is, the people who passed this clearly want there to be less
abortion, right? They don`t like abortion. They`re anti-abortion.
But they have to sort of say that that`s not the law`s intent?
NORTHUP: Well, absolutely. These laws are pre-textual. And the
district court saw that. There is not medical justification for them.
They are meant to do what they`re doing, which is closing 80 percent of the
clinics in Texas.
What we saw yesterday, what we see in this case, we have not seen in
the 40 years since Roe versus Wade was decided by the Supreme Court.
NORTHUP: Never had we had a law like Texas` HB2 that has closed 80
percent of the abortion facilities.
HAYES: This is the worst from the perspective of abortion rights,
this is the worst law that has been upheld and gone into effect since Roe?
NORTHUP: Absolutely. We have never seen anything like this. To talk
about having only eight clinics in the state of Texas, that the other 80
percent of the clinics in Texas closed for no good reason because it`s not
medically justified and that it got upheld by at this point -- injunction
lifted by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
HAYES: OK. So, what is the legal standard that is being argued here
that the district court and appellate court differed on? What makes its OK
under Roe jurisprudence and what makes it not OK?
NORTHUP: Well, it`s not OK, because the Supreme Court said women have
a right to access abortion services and that the government can`t put an
undue burden on that right.
HAYES: That`s the key -- undue burden.
NORTHUP: That`s right.
HAYES: So, the test is here, does this law present undue burden?
NORTHUP: Yes and 80 percent closing is obviously an undue --
HAYES: Well, the federal circuit court disagreed with you.
NORTHUP: That`s right. I would say --
HAYES: You say obvious, but it wasn`t obvious to those three circuit
NORTHUP: I would say that yesterday, basically, the 5th circuit said
there are no abortion rights for women in the state of Texas. If that is
the standard that 80 percent of clinics closing is not enough, that women
having to drive -- 900,000 women having to drive over 300 miles round trip,
not having any services in the west and south of the state, only having
services in the four major metropolitan areas that is not an undue burden?
Then the right doesn`t mean anything.
And I do not believe that was the court`s intention. It is meant to
protect women`s decision about their personal lives.
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: What I`m hearing from you is that were this to go
to the Supreme Court on appeal, what you are saying, does unburden come
NORTHUP: A case from 20 years.
HAYES: Planned Parenthood v Casey, which is Pennsylvania -- Justice
O`Connor, did she write that opinion?
NORTHUP: It`s as a plurality opinion.
HAYES: That`s right. All right, so under burden test comes from the last
biggest case we have, right?
NORTHUP: That`s right.
HAYES: This would be the biggest case. If you could do this by law and
not cross the undue burden threshold then you basically gotten rid of Roe
through the back door.
NORTHUP: Absolutely. It`s meaningless. We have to make sure, we believe
that if the Supreme Court and do I believe in Casey, it meant for this
standard, they meant to save Roe. You look at the language of that
opinion, it`s said it`s the constitution that there is a realm of
individual liberty the government cannot enter. They meant that.
HAYES: Roe is a constitutional holding. Roe finds that under right to
privacy, that in the constitution women have a right to an abortion.
NORTHUP: That`s right. You cannot do what the state of Texas has done,
which is pretend to be regulating health and safety with the purpose of
closing clinics and saying that right is protected. If you had closed
80 percent of the polling booths in Texas, you would not say you still have
a right to vote.
HAYES: I got to say, what`s so crazy about this entire thing is a non -- a
sort of a non-lawyer watching, there is such a weird bad faith that hovers
over the whole thing. Like the people that want less abortion, I don`t
agree, but they sincerely believe in that cause?
Like they`re trying to stop people from having abortions. Why are we
pretending otherwise and yet we have to all do is I guess pretend that this
law isn`t meant to do that even though it obviously is?
NORTHUP: It`s un-democratic to have the kind of false pretext that Texas
HAYES: People will say that`s the fault of Roe. The people who are anti-
abortion say Roe took it out of the democratic sphere and this is what you
get you liberals, this what is you left us to do is come up with pre-
textual laws and play your Roe game and play your jurors prudential game
and put things for the court because you won`t let us vote on it here in
the state of Texas.
NORTHUP: The court and our constitution is there to make sure that all
citizens` rights are equally protected so that state legislatures cannot
do. Let`s remember Roe versus Wade came out of Texas. They weren`t
allowing women to exercise the right to vote and we are now going back to
that situation before, which is that unless you can travel, you cannot get
access to abortion.
HAYES: That was exactly the situation pre-Roe. That is what it was. Some
states you could.
NORTHUP: Too many women in Texas can`t do that.
HAYES: Nancy Northup, thank you very much.
Super Bowl champion and quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks Russell Wilson
here to talk about domestic violence in the NFL ahead.
HAYES: ISIS murdered another person today. His name is Alan Henning, a
remarkable man, a taxi driver who undertook the incredibly self-less act of
leaving his home in England, his two kids, to go and be part of an aid
convoy in Syria.
He was kidnapped last December while trying to deliver food and water to
the people affected by the ceaseless misery and violence of the Syrian
civil war. And as their want when they murder someone, ISIS killed Henning
in a gruesome fashion and they filmed it and they released the film in the
world in the hopes that people like me would cover it.
And show their video and lavish the act with attention, but I`m not going
to because I`m sick of having my show remotely programmed by monsters. We
all know at this point who ISIS is and what they`re capable of. So instead
rest in peace Alan Henning, your memory will be cherished. You deserve so
HAYES: As the NFL continues to wrestle with the fallout from a series of
well-publicized domestic violence incidents, one of the league`s biggest
stars has written a pretty incredible essay taking it on head-on.
Super Bowl champion, Russell Wilson of the Seattle Seahawks writes of the
"Players Tribune," quote, "Many of you readers probably think I`ve been Mr.
Goody two-shoes my whole life, but honestly, I was a bully growing up. In
elementary, and middle school, I threw kids against the wall, I rubbed
their heads in dirt, I bit them and knocked teeth out."
Wilson writes that he stopped that kind of behavior and he goes on to
discuss the importance of NFL players confining aggressive behavior to the
field. Wilson has also launched the "Why Not You Foundation," its first
initiative is path to peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The "Why Not You Foundation`s" first initiative is to
help prevent domestic violence and bring resources for those in need. This
is my promise to do my part. I pass the peace to my friends, Derek Jeter
and Justin Timberlake. Derek, Justin, you pass the peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now is Russell Wilson, he is quarterback for the Seattle
Seahawks. Russell, thanks for joining me. Why did you decide to write
RUSSELL WILSON, QUARTERBACK, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: Well, I had the opportunity
to get with Derek Jeter and his new website players tribune and he asked me
what do you think about writing about one day or whatever and the first
thing I thought about was my Why Not You Foundation, I named the Why Not
You Foundation, it was originally the Russell Wilson Foundation, didn`t
want to make it about me.
I wanted people to focus on themselves. That`s why I made it the Why Not
You Foundation. My dad used to ask me the question why not you be a Super
Bowl-winning quarterback, why not you play professional baseball, why not
you get your education in three years in college.
So that`s the question that motivated me and drove me. And so I was flying
down to California on my bi-week and thinking about what can I do? The Why
Not Foundation for its first initiative and I thought about all the things
going on not just in the National Football League, but across the United
States, across the world.
And domestic violence is a prevalent issue and so I figured a way to, I had
to think of something and when I thought of, throw a football for a living,
I thought about peace and love and respect and that`s I came up with why
not you pass the peace.
And that`s the hashtag, #wnypassthepeace. It`s about the individual. One
person at a time help change the world. Like I said in that little video
you just showed, this is my promise to do my job and I pass the peace to
He passed the peace already. I know Justin, I talked to Justin too, he`s
going to pass it in the next few days or so. It`s exciting and people are
starting to do it. It`s going like wildfire, we want to keep it going for
the month of October.
HAYES: So as this entire series of weeks has sort of unfolded with the Ray
Rice suspension and Adrian Peterson`s indictment, the big question I had is
what are players talking about in the locker room?
Like how are you guys perceiving all of this? This is leading nightly
news, these are your teammates. These are people you may have good or bad
relationships with. People you thought were good guys, bad guys, what has
that conversation inside the locker room, without obviously disclosing
names, what has that conversation been like?
WILSON: With anything in life, I believe in forgiveness, not everybody`s
perfect. Guys make mistakes and people make mistakes, I make mistakes all
of the time. The Why Not You Foundation pass the peace initiative is not
about what people did, but how can we move forward, how can we focus on the
now and moving forward? That`s the focus.
That`s why I say in the video, this is my promise to do my part. And I
think it`s a focus on the inner self first and passing it forward to the
HAYES: I think people that have been watching this from the outside are
wondering if there is an awareness of the level of seriousness of what has
played out on the national scene like whether you guys are aware of how
serious this is and whether you feel like there should be more
WILSON: Well, I think there is accountability across the whole world. At
the end of the day, it`s not just the National Football League it`s
everywhere. I did some research and communicated with the National
Domestic Violence hot line and hearing the stories going on and all of the
things, not just in the league but everywhere.
I pass it to different people and pass it to two people every day this
month is the goal and hopefully people keep sharing it. So for us, yes, we
note seriousness of it and know the seriousness of it in the National
Football League and in other sports and just the seriousness of it
It`s not just in the United States, it`s also globally. That`s why I want
to pass the peace and continue to keep putting the two fingers up and
sharing it with the world.
HAYES: Russell Wilson, the quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks. Good
luck Monday night, Russell.
WILSON: Thank you guys so much.
HAYES: The question millions of parents are asking themselves this fall,
should I let my child play football? Is it worth it? We`ll talk about it,
HAYES: One year since the launch of the Affordable Care Act`s health
exchanges by any measure, Obamacare has been a success. Rocky rollout of
the web site notwithstanding.
Ten million people have new health insurance. Premiums are set to drop.
Simply put the law is changing the lives of Americans for the better, but
it doesn`t mean we should forget that Obamacare would cause an untimely
apocalypse. Instead we commemorate that time a year ago when the
conservative sky was falling in our new series, "This Date in Obamacare
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see the prices of Obamacare?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s unbelievable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one thing about health care you are not hearing
it`s a hacker`s dream.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a hacker`s wet dream. I mean, I cannot believe
that they did this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot believe you just said that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a 72 percent subsidy that everybody --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody watching this show. That`s what the law
says. Cut the crap and stop lying to the audience. You want --
Congressman, I bet you $10,000, $10,000 --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re losing. You`re afraid it`s going to be
successful. That`s your problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re full of crap.
HAYES: On Wednesday, 16-year-old high school junior, Tom Codmela of Long
Island, New York died after colliding with another player and collapsing
during a varsity football game. He was one of three high school football
players to die just this week. The causes of death are not immediately
In Michigan, Head Football Coach Brady Hoke under harsh criticism for
keeping Shane Morris in a game after the sophomore quarterback absorbed a
vicious hit last Saturday. Even the announcers could not believe it with
one noting Morris could barely stand up after the blow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: I got to tell you right now that number 7 is still
in this game it`s appalling. It is appalling he was left in on that play
to throw the ball again as badly as he was hit by Cochran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: We`ll talk to nation sports editor, Dave Zirin, and neurologist,
Teena Shetty, about what the research tells us are the risks of amateur
football. Stick around.
HAYES: We`re back and joining me now is Dr. Teena Shetty, an independent
neurotrauma consultant for "New York Times" and a neurologist at a hospital
for special surgery and Dave Zirin, sports editor at "The Nation" and host
of Edger Sports for Sirius XM Radio.
I want to replay just the hit that the Michigan quarterback took in that
game this weekend that the coach is in hot water for it. Take a look.
Just takes it right on the chin sort of classic at this point that`s an
illegal hit even though he wasn`t flagged on it.
And he`s wobbling around. What is the protocol there, Doctor, when someone
-- I know you had experience on the sidelines at games at the professional
level. What`s the protocol when someone takes a hit like that? There is
supposed to be an independent medical examination, right?
DR. TEENA SHETTY, NEUROTRAUMA CONSULTANT, "NEW YORK TIMES": There is
indeed, a protocol that`s followed. It`s hard to say what circumstances
happened in this instance. I know that the team, this team is managed with
the same protocols that a lot of expertise and when a player is hit on the
head, they should immediately be removed from the field for medical
HAYES: This guy was -- you didn`t have to be a neurologist to see that he
was, you know, concussed. He was walking around in a daze. He was
stumbling. He looked like he was drunk. I don`t know anything, I`m not a
doctor. I would know not to put him back on the field.
SHETTY: Certainly there are signs are unsteadiness and unbalance,
confusion, possibly disorientation, which all signs of concussion. This is
a lesson for all of us to really revisit how we do these procedures on the
And to recognize the need for better communication on the sidelines and the
emphasis that these kind of things need to be rehearsed and be done very
effectively and players need to be removed immediately.
HAYES: Dave, it was a watershed moment because in that game at that
moment, the color commentator was saying this is appalling. Saying he
should not be back in the game.
DAVE ZIRIN, SPORTS EDITOR, "THE NATION": Ten years ago it would be one of
ESPN`s top ten hits, got jacked up. Pull it back, it`s now we have all
this concern for what`s happening. Chris, a couple of days ago at the
University of Michigan, there was a mass rally on campus to fire the
athletic director. Other than Penn State, when are there ever mass rallies
to fire an athletic director.
But it was happening because that very hit that we all saw on TV, it`s
catalysed in Ann Arbor, two very strong constituencies. People who are fed
up with football and football culture and people who are very fed up that
Michigan football is 0-3 before October 1 for the first time in a century.
HAYES: That`s right. They have come together. And part of what is so
upsetting watching that hit, we`ve gotten all this bulk of research about
traumatic brain injury. We just had this crazy statistic, I think 77 of 79
of NFL players autopsied after their death had evidence of CTE, a sort of
evidence of some kind of traumatic brain injury.
SHETTY: Repeated traumatic brain injury.
HAYES: It`s one thing to say profession always, as horrible as it is but
another talking about amateurs, high school students and research showing
that there is -- the concussive, routine shocks that are part of playing
SHETTY: So we have a great deal of concern about the implication of sub
concussive injuries especially repeated sub concussive blows. We don`t
fully understand what the consequences of the multiple blows. We know that
every blow with neurologic symptoms that follows has to be managed
A player has to be removed from play and the player has to be protected and
given mental and physical rest and the chance to recover before they put
back in a contact situation where they could be hit again.
HAYES: My question Dave is if this is happening, if what we saw happen in
Michigan is happening on a nationally televised football game at one of the
most storied football programs in America.
What the heck is happening right now on Friday night at high school games
around the country where there is no -- there is no color commentator or
necessarily a neurologist on the sideline and coach wants to win and thinks
his star quarterback is better in there a little wobbly than sitting on the
ZIRIN: "The New York Times" journalist said the media is better at
covering revolution than evolution. There is an evolution happening at the
amateur level in football of parents, particularly middle class parents
just taking their kids out of the sport.
Pop Warner is down 9.5 percent in terms of participation and it`s all about
this head injury issue and the person you interviewed before, Russell
Wilson, people like him, Andrew Luck, Colin Kaepernick, what they have in
common they come from middle class homes and they played multiple sports.
I think the Russell Wilsons of the next generation, their parents will keep
them out of football.
HAYES: That is -- I think that`s a terrifying thought for the NFL. Pop
Warner is the way that football is introduced. It`s hard if you`re a
parent as I think about my kids.
ZIRIN: Yes, they could play basketball or baseball or get their head
HAYES: Dr. Teena Shetty and Dave Zirin, thank you both.
All right, that is ALL IN for this evening. "The Rachel Maddow Show"
starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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