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PoliticsNation, Tuesday, October 7th, 2014

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October 7, 2014

Guest: Val Demings, Maria Teresa Kumar, Jimmy Williams, Faith Jenkins

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to
you for tuning in. I'm live tonight from Orlando, Florida.

Today's lead, back stabbing the president or just telling a story? A
new book by one of President Obama's former cabinet officials is raising
big questions. Is it appropriate for a trusted former member of the
president's team to write a book that criticizes the commander in chief
even while he's still in office?

Leon Panetta served as the president's CIA director from 2009 to 2011.
He was there when the president ordered the mission to kill Osama bin
Laden. President Obama then nominated him to be the press secretary,
publicly praising Panetta.


servant of our time, Leon Panetta. Leon appreciates the struggles and
sacrifices of our troops and military families, because he served in the
army himself.


SHARPTON: Panetta served as defense secretary until early last year.
Now he's out with a new book. It's respectful in many ways, acknowledging
progress made under this president. But it's also filled with tough words
about the president's foreign policy, a theme he did in an interview on
MSNBC today.


LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think we would be in a much
better position if we had left a presence in Iraq of approximately 8,000 to
10,000. We needed to have people on the ground. We needed to have troops
on the ground.

you and Hillary Clinton both argued, as did others, that we should arm the
Syrian rebels two years ago. The president decided not to. If we had made
that decision then, would ISIS have been able to grow as it did?

PANETTA: I think we would at least be in a better position to have,
in the rebel operation, a group that we would have worked with, known,
helped arm.

MITCHELL: Let's talk about red lines. There was a red line against
Assad, then a red line on chemical weapons.

PANETTA: But I really believe when you're commander in-chief of the
United States of America, that when you lay down a red line, when you put
our word on the line, that if they use chemical weapons, that we will take
action, and they used chemical weapons. And when that happens, we have an
obligation, the president has an obligation to take action.


SHARPTON: Many of those decisions were made when Panetta was serving
the president. And here's what he said about the president's leadership.


PANETTA: He approaches things like a law professor in presenting kind
of the logic of his position. And there's nothing wrong with that. But my
experience in Washington is that logic alone doesn't work. That once you
lay out a position, you have to roll up your sleeves and you got to
basically fight to get it done. That's key in Washington.

In order for presidents to succeed, they cannot just, you know, when
they run into problems, kind of step back and give up. And I think there's
a feeling right now, I have a feeling that both the leadership, and the
Congress and the president have largely given up on the big issues facing
this country.


SHARPTON: The president's given up? Give me a break. Let me be very
clear. There's nothing wrong with criticizing the president, but for a
former trusted official to do so while the president is still in office,
that's low and a real blemish on Leon Panetta's record of service.

Joining me now is Joe Madison, host of "The Madison Show" on Sirius
radio and Dana Milbank of "the Washington Post." Dana's new article is
titled "Leon Panetta, other former Obama subordinates show stunning

Thank you both for being here.

you, Reverend.


SHARPTON: Dana, you called this "stunning disloyalty." What's
different here?

MILBANK: Well, look, I mean, Leon Panetta is an American and free to
say what he wants. But I can tell you what the effect here is, it is to
embolden conservatives and Republicans right on the eve of the election.

I was at an event yesterday. This was coming out with Bobby Jindal,
Republican governor of Louisiana, who wants to run for president. He's
saying, you know, everything that's wrong with this president, you don't
need to hear it from me, just go and listen to Leon Panetta.

So certainly he's fair to say what he wants. The criticism itself is
a very common one that many people on the left have made before. The
timing is very unfortunate, I think, for this president, and it does lend
itself to the suspicion that Leon Panetta is looking to ring up some

SHARPTON: Now Joe, what's your reaction when you first saw Leon
Panetta's comments?

MADISON: Well, my first reaction was, when I heard him say logic
doesn't apply in Washington, D.C., I think that's why people are so down on
Washington, D.C. What do you mean logic doesn't apply?

Of course, you want to be logical, of course, you want to be
intelligent, of course, you want to be cautious. My first reaction is, I
thought about John F. Kennedy and the Cuban missile crisis. History will
tell us he was the only one at that table who didn't want to pull the
trigger, which would have started World War III. And the president is the
president. The secretary of defense is the secretary of defense. The
president has to make that decision. History will judge -- history will
judge whether the president is right or wrong. And most important of all,
remember, all we have is Panetta's side of the story. Let's wait to see
what happens when the president writes his story or when history writes and
then finally, he knows darn well that we could not have left those troops
in Iraq.

First of all, we didn't trust the leader of Iraq. Second of all, he
wasn't going to prosecute anything that would have been done against those
troops. They would have been sitting ducks. But your point is well taken.
The president of the United States has not given up. Matter of fact, he's
brought 40-something nations together to fight ISIS.

SHARPTON: You know, Dana, Leon Panetta has a long history in
Washington, he was bill Clinton's chief of staff. Is that playing in here
at all? How do you explain this critique coming now?

MILBANK: I think that has something to do with it here, Reverend.

If you look what's happening this year, the beginning of the year,
Robert Gates, the former defense secretary -- or first defense secretary
with this president came out with a critical memoir. Then Hillary
Clinton's book, which was somewhat, still somewhat critical, in particular
interviews she gave. And now you have Leon Panetta.

I think what's in common here, is all three of these were figures in
their own right without President Obama and Hillary Clinton was a rival.
Gates was a holdover from the Bush administration. And Panetta is just
sort of a Washington institution.

So I think they all feel they don't owe him anything. That they're
free to be their own person. So when you establish a cabinet of rivals as
the president did in the first term, there are many benefits to that, but
we are actually now sitting a down side to that.

SHARPTON: Joe, Vice President Biden hit back at Panetta today.
Listen to this.


former administration officials soon as they leave, write books, which I
think is inappropriate. But at any rate -- no, I'm serious, I do think
it's inappropriate. Give the guy a chance to get out of office.


This was actually yesterday the vice president talking. Is there some
kind of unspoken trust that is had between the president and his cabinet
members that he's taken into his confidence and made a part of the team,
even after you leave the office?

MADISON: You know, I really don't know. You know, I like plain-
spoken Joe. I mean, he really puts it where it should be put. I don't
know how to answer that question. But what keeps coming into my mind,
Reverend Sharpton, this is about marketing. You know, it they waited two
years from now, we may not even remember who Panetta is. And People may
not even buy his book. Because remember, it would be Hillary Clinton that
would be getting all the attention. So I think quite honestly, this is --
well, let me put it this way. Panetta doesn't have sex to sell. So here
he sells disloyalty.

SHARPTON: Well, let me go to Dana before you get too far out there,
Joe. Dana, you know, Panetta has taken heat, including from you. Let's
listen to how he answered some of the criticism today.


PANETTA: You know, I'm a believer that -- that you don't put history
on hold. That the reality is, you speak to what you believe history is all
about, and the American people will be able to make the judgment as to
what's right or wrong.


SHARPTON: Dana, do you put history on hold? Do you buy that as his

MILBANK: I don't really buy that argument. I mean, I think that if
Leon Panetta thought he had a chance of persuading this president to take
the positions that Panetta wanted him to take, he'd be on the job
persuading him to do it. I think he gave up on that and has decided to go
off into a dissenting role. This isn't as if this sort of thing has never
happened before. Remember Paul O'Neal (ph) and John (INAUDIBLE) with
George W. Bush. But just the timing, particularly before the midterm
elections, giving Republicans a lot of ammunition, I'm not sure Panetta
thought that through entirely.

MADISON: And you don't embolden the enemy.

SHARPTON: Joe, I looked this up. I want to ask you this. I looked
as President Bush, there were a few books written while he was still in
office by former aides, but the overwhelming majority of them was after he
left office. Why do some officials like Leon Panetta feel compelled to
break that practice and publish while the commander in chief is still in

MADISON: I really don't know. And it's really unfortunate because
you would think that especially with a midterm election, number two, we
are, in essence, at war with is. Why would you do this at a time that
could embolden your enemy, could undermine the president's leadership? You
know what comes to my mind, maybe there's a lack of respect there for this
individual. I hate to say that, I can't read Panetta's mind, but, you
know, this does not speak well for how they should be treating a sitting
president of the United States.

Joe Madison and Dana Milbank, thank you for your time tonight.

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

MADISON: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, four weeks from the midterm elections, and first
lady Michelle Obama's on fire on the trail.


you that elections don't matter, you tell them to look back at the last six
years. Tell them about all those elections did to change the course of
history in this country, and tell them that the same is true this year.


SHARPTON: Indiana police caught on tape, officers smash a car window
and taser a man on a traffic stop. We look at the Ferguson effect on
policing in America.

And you know her from "the Cosby Show." Now Raven Simone is sparking
a national debate with this comment to Oprah.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm tired of being labeled. I'm an American,
not an African American.

OPRAH WINFREY, TV PERSONALITY: Girl, twitter will be on fire.


WINFREY: What did you just say? Stop, stop tape right now.


SHARPTON: What do you think? Tweet us. "Conversation nation" is


SHARPTON: The first lady on the campaign trail in Madison, Wisconsin,
and holding nothing back.

Plus, wait until you see this one. Speaker Boehner reveals his jobs
plan. Well, sort of.

And Raven Simone's interview with Oprah draws a big reaction. Her
comment on being labeled on race ahead.


SHARPTON: We're exactly four weeks away from the midterm elections
and some of the biggest names in the Democratic Party were on the road
today, making the case to help the president and his allies finish what
they started. The first lady was on the campaign trail in Madison,


M. OBAMA: By almost every economic measure, we are better off today
than when Barack Obama took office. That's a fact.


SHARPTON: It is a fact. Unemployment's down. The stock market's up.
We've had 55 straight months of private sector job growth. But we still
have so much more work to do. To help every American get a fair shot.


BIDEN: No one in America should be working 40 hours a week and living
below the poverty level.


minimum wage vote is important. That's why equal pay for women is

M. OBAMA: You all can elect a leader who will fight to create jobs
for you, when you graduate. And make sure those jobs pay a decent wage.



SHARPTON: These are the issues at stake for the midterms. Raising
the minimum wage, equal pay, keeping extreme Republicans from taking over
the U.S. Senate. And the first lady had a message for anyone who thinks
this election isn't a big deal.


M. OBAMA: If anyone ever tells you that elections don't matter, you
tell them to look back at the last six years. Tell them about all those
two elections did to change the course of history in this country, and tell
them that the same is true this year.

If you think every person in this country should have the chance to go
to college and build a good life for themselves then you have to step up.
You have to step up.


SHARPTON: We all have to step up and we have got four weeks to do it.

Joining me now, a former Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell and Jess
McIntosh. Thank you both for being here.

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY'S LIST: Great to be here, Rev.


SHARPTON: Governor, will these economic pocket book issues help
motivate Democrats over the final four weeks?

RENDELL: Well, that's a key, Rev. Will the democratic base turn out?
It's been a good weeks for the president, great economic news, fantastic,
blow-the-roof off economic news, and his performance dealing with is,
building the coalition is favored by a lot of the American people.

So good news that will help energize our base. And in fact, there's a
recent poll by stand (INAUDIBLE) showing the democratic voters who say
they're likely to vote are at 91 percent. Republican voters who say
they're likely to vote are at 93 percent. That's good. That really has
narrowed the gap dramatically.

Plus, there's an explosion going on out there among single women.
Single women are giving Democrats in these tough states huge majorities.
Kay Hagan and Michelle Nunn have 34-point majority. Now, they're women.
But Bruce Braley in Iowa winning against a woman has a 43-point plus
majority among single women. And Mark Udall in Colorado has a 33-point
plus majority.

So the lines are good. The Democrats, I think, have a slightly better
turn-out. Field, ground operation and some states much better. So the
chances are much improved for the whole of the Senate. But it's still a
very tough nut. If you assume that Michigan and New Hampshire now are
fairly safe for Democrats, there are nine seats, three are gone. Of the
remaining six, the Republicans have to take three and they take the Senate
back, unless they lose in Kansas, Georgia, or Kentucky. If the Democrats
win one of those states, it's pretty hard for the Republicans to take back
the Senate.

SHARPTON: Now Jess, the first lady was in Wisconsin today campaigning
for Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate Mary burke. She really stressed
women's issues. I want to play part of it.



M. OBAMA: A leader who will fight for equal pay for women. A leader
who will support our rights as women to make our own decisions about our
bodies and about our healthcare. Ladies --


SHARPTON: Now, there's a big gender gap in the Wisconsin race and in
Senate races.


SHARPTON: Will women turn out? I mean, will there be a bigger turn-
out among women? What are you seeing out there, Jess?

MCINTOSH: I'm seeing a lot of enthusiasm among women. Among the
women who usually get written off in midterm election, I'm talking about
younger women, I'm talking about single women, African-American women
specifically. I mean, these voters are energized and it is because of
exactly the issues you laid out at the beginning. We are talking about
raising the minimum wage, which women understand is a women's issue, ending
gender discrimination in pay, having paid sick leave and access to

And one of the reasons that was so fantastic that the first lady hit
those notes in Wisconsin is because Republican governor Scott Walker has
been one of the absolute worst across the board on these issues. And Mary
Burke, the Democratic challenger who really has a fantastic shot of
unseating him in just 28 days, has been doing a really good job of
highlighting those differences.

And Walker knows he's vulnerable on them. He put up a very strange TV
ad today, where he tried to suggest that he was maybe kind of pro-choice,
which of course anybody who has followed his agenda, knows that's the exact
-- he's one of the most extreme on that issue possible. But he seems to
know he's in trouble with the women everyone is afraid are going to turn
out and he's trying to inoculate himself but it's far too late with just 28
days left.

SHARPTON: Now, Governor, Democrats have been running on things like
minimum wage and equal pay, but listen to what Georgia Republican Senate
candidate David Purdue said this week about his own record on outsourcing.



defend it, I'm proud of it. This is part of American business, any
business. I mean, outsourcing is the procurement of products and services
to help your business run. I mean, people do that all day.


SHARPTON: He's proud of it. Proud of outsourcing? I mean, can you
believe this governor?

RENDELL: No. I think it's an issue which could really energize
Democratic voters and independent voters to come out and vote for Michelle
Nunn whose run a great campaign.

MCINTOSH: She has.

RENDELL: Purdue is in trouble because he's talking about outsourcing
in a state that has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation,
8.4 percent still. Even though unemployment across the board in the
country has dipped under six percent. So that's a message that's going to
tick off a lot of Georgians and could be the difference in what was already
a close election before he made that remark.

If Michelle nun wins her Senate seat t becomes extremely hard, not
impossible, but extreme hard for Republicans to take back the Senate.

SHARPTON: We've heard a lot of crazy -- I don't know how else to
describe it -- crazy campaign rhetoric. But now Arkansas Tom Cotton is
trying to connect ISIS to border security. Listen to this.


state, who collaborate with drug cartels in Mexico upon who have clearly
shown they're willing to expand outside the drug trade into human
trafficking and terrorism. They could infiltrate our defenseless southern
border and attack us right here in places like Arkansas.


SHARPTON: Seriously? He's claiming that ISIS is headed to Arkansas.
I mean, are they just willing to say anything, Jess?

MCINTOSH: Well, I think this highlights a really important point in
the final four weeks of the election. We know what Democrats' issues are.
It's getting a fair shot to get ahead for you and your family.

What are Republicans running on? This is why you have David Purdue
saying that he loves outsourcing, and Scott Brown going all over the place
in New Hampshire, and Scott Walker suggesting he might be pro-choice and
Cotton saying whatever it is he's saying in Arkansas.

What is Republicans' message? What are they selling to American
voters in the last 28 days? I don't think they have anything left to
offer. Their agenda has done nothing to improve working families or the
middle class, or to give anything of benefit to women. All they want to do
is roll back our clock and make it harder for us to get ahead.

So of course they're all over the map and I know this map in 2014 is
good for Republicans. I know this is supposed to be their year, but they
don't have the candidates, they don't have the campaigns, and they really
don't have the issues.

SHARPTON: Former governor Ed Rendell and Jess McIntosh, thank you
both for your time tonight.

MCINTOSH: Thanks, Rev.

RENDELL: My pleasure, Rev.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, disturbing video of a traffic stop gone wrong
in Indiana. A tasing, a shattered window, and new requests about what
police and citizens can do to prevent scenes like this.

Also Jennifer Lawrence speaks out on the hijacking and the hacking
that she says is a sex crime. On the hacking that she says is a sex crime,
not a scandal. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Developing news tonight. A trip to visit a sick mother goes
horribly wrong, and making national headlines. A man is tasered. A window
is shattered, and tonight, the public is demanding answers. Why did this
traffic stop escalate? And how are cell phones changing the way people
interact with police? That's next.


SHARPTON: You might call it the Ferguson effect, a nationwide
surge in people using cell phones to record their interactions with police
officers. In New York City, Eric Garner placed in a fatal choke hold by an
officer, caught on camera.

In Los Angeles, a woman pummeled on the side of the highway by an
officer and recorded by those driving by. And in St. Louis, police shot
and killed a 25-year-old man less than four miles from where Michael Brown
died two weeks earlier, also caught on cell phone video. And now, a new
case in Indiana. Lisa Mahone was driving with her boyfriend Jamal Jones to
visit her mother in the hospital. They were pulled over because Miss
Mahone wasn't wearing her seat belt. Police asked Mr. Jones for his I.D.
and told the couple to get out of the car. Part of the incident was
recorded by a teen in the back seat of the car.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I guess he's looking for his information in his
book bag. When he reached for his book bag, they pulled a gun out. What
was the purpose of a gun? And now they asking me to open my door so I can
get out. I'm scared. If you can pull out a gun with two kids in the back

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Are you going to open the door?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Why do you say people are not going to hurt you?



SHARPTON: The family has now filed a lawsuit, saying the officers
used excessive force. Police say they did nothing wrong. In years passed
this might have been a simply he say, he said, she said scenario, but now,
this case like many others, will have video evidence to help reach a just

Joining me now is former Orlando Police Chief Val Demings. Thank
you Val for being here.

It's good to be here.

SHARPTON: Chief Demings, let's start with this new cell phone video
from Indiana. What struck you as you watched the tape?

DEMINGS: Well, I think first of all, I want to say that I think we
all understand that police officers do have a tough job to do. The
overwhelming majority of them do get it right. Sometimes they do get it
wrong. And I have to say, though, watching the video, what's troubling for
me, I do find it difficult, as a former law enforcement officer, someone
who served as the chief of police, served over 30 years, to really figure
out how a minor traffic violation, not wearing your seat belt, although
important, is a minor traffic violation, how that violation escalated to
the point where it did.

SHARPTON: Now, the Indiana Police Department, and I agree with you,
not all police are bad. Not even most in my opinion, but they said they
defended these officers by issuing a statement, saying, they feared for
their own safety. Quote, "Police officers who make legal traffic stops are
allowed to ask passengers inside a stopped vehicle for identification and
to request they stop the vehicle for the officer's safety, without a
requirement of reasonable suspicion. The Hammond police were at all times
acting in the interest of officer safety and in accordance with Indiana
law." I mean, does that address the main issues raised by this cell phone
video, chief?

DEMINGS: Well, you know, officers do have to exercise safety. They
certainly can't help anybody else if their own lives are in jeopardy.
However, this was a stop of a family. You had two adults in the front, two
children in the back. The driver of the vehicle said that she was on her
way to the hospital to visit her ailing mother. Officers have a great tool
that they can use and that tool is discretion. There are several things
that the officers could have done. Number one, they could have simply told
her to -- her and the passenger, front-seat passenger to put their seat
belts on, check her driver's license if they felt the need to do that, and
tell them to drive safely and always wear the seat belts.

They could have simply run her driver's information and issued a
citation if they felt the need to do that. But in watching the video, and
I know the investigation is ongoing, I see no need where this particular
incident had to escalate to the point that it did, especially with two
children in the car. We always have to be sensitive to people's
situations. And we do know this is a family on their way to see an ailing

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you about videos. You've been chief down
here in Orlando. Videos and the use of it now has changed a lot of how
these cases are argued, pro and con. How do you feel, as a chief, about

DEMINGS: Well, when I was the chief of police in Orlando, we actually
tested some body cams, we also looked at other different recording devices.
We had several of our vehicles, our budget would not allow us to outfit our
fleet, but several vehicles did have dash cams installed. One of the
things that I always try to portray to the police officers is that videos
are good because they not only protect the public, but they also protect
the police officers. We know of several instances where videos have
actually cleared officers from any wrongdoing. And so videos are really a
good thing. And when you look at where we are today, that's just where we
are. We live in a video society and we should welcome it.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, ACLU lawyers say it is legal to record
police activities. They also caution, quote, "Challenging police
misconduct should not be done on the street. It is better to do it in
court afterwards." Now, isn't that where these videos could make the most
difference, chief, in court, as well as the court of public opinion?

DEMINGS: I really agree. You know, few situations are going to be
solved, really in the heat of the moment on the street. But when you are
in a place that is open to the public, you have a right to demonstrate, if
you do so lawfully and peacefully, and you have a right to video record.
And that's just, as I said, the society that we live in. That's where we
are. It's not going away. And we just have to be accountable and every
time do it right. And if we don't --

SHARPTON: I notice you looked at me and smiled when you said,
"demonstrate." Buc Chief Val Demings, thank you for your time tonight.

DEMINGS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, is it OK for a former cabinet member to go after
the commander in chief while he's still in office?

Jennifer Lawrence breaks silence on the nude photo hacking.

And Raven Symone sparks a national debate with a comment on race and
labels to Oprah. "Conversation Nation," next.


SHARPTON: We're back now with "Conversation Nation." Joining us
tonight, Maria Teresa Kumar, Jimmy Williams and Faith Jenkins. Thank you
all for being here this evening.



SHARPTON: We start with our top story tonight. Was it back stabbing,
or was it fair game? As we mentioned Leon Panetta, former secretary of
defense and director of the CIA for the Obama administration, is accusing
President Obama of, quote, "having lost his way on national security in his
new book." Maria, is it fair criticizing the President while he's still in

KUMAR: I don't think it's fair. And I also think at the end of the
day Leon Panetta was one of his advisers. But it's the President's
responsibility ultimately to decide what to do next. And I think the
President understands very carefully that we can't be in perpetual war in
the Middle East. And that's why he's strategic about it. It's
disappointing that Leon came out and stated this right now, especially on
the eve of midterm elections.


WILLIAMS: Yes, it sounds kind of bad. I mean, listen, if I had
somebody that used to -- by the way I gave a job to, actually I gave two
jobs to and then they left my employment and I gave them great speeches
when they left by the way. And then they wrote a book and there's no sex
in the book, and nothing really scandalous. What's the one thing you can
put in there, the guy I used to work for kind of stinks. That's not
actually a great way, it's not very honorable. And I hate to see that Leon
Panetta did that. It should not shock anybody. That Leon Panetta was a
member of Congress, a majority of his money came from the defense industry,
frankly, so let's just call that what it is.


said that the president did a great job, a wonderful job, would any of the
people on the news network be talking about this book that he wants to
sell? Controversy sells more books. People are talking about it. And so
look at the motive here, look at the timing of these comments. Is this
really about selling more books?

SHARPTON: All right, now to the next topic. Scandal or sex crime?
Oscar winner Jennifer Lawrence is breaking her silence about the nude
photos that a hacker stole from her and posted online in August. In a
"Vanity Fair" interview, Lawrence explains why she had nude photos of
herself, and she didn't hide. Quote, "I was in a loving, healthy, great
relationship for four years, it was long distance, and either your
boyfriend is going to look at porn, or he's going to look at you." She
goes on to call the hackers criminals, quote, "It is not a scandal, it is
not a sex crime. It is a sexual violation. It's disgusting. The law
needs to be changed and we need to change. That's why these websites are
responsible." Lawrence and several other actresses have threatened to sue
Google for violating privacy, for failing to remove the photos.

Judge Faith, is this a sex crime?

JENKINS: Well, it's not a sex crime per se as defined in the statute.
But what you're going to see happen Rev is what he saw happen with revenge
porn cases. States are going to start enacting legislation to keep up with
technology and crimes that are being committed with technology. So what
you're going to see is legislation being enacted to make it a higher level
felony, or to make the punishments more serious when you're hacking into
someone's phone and releasing nude and explicit photos of them. I think it
will going to be address the increasing use of technology to do these


KUMAR: And I think we have to understand that this is basically
something that she had between her boyfriend. First of all, it's sad that
she has to explain why she had the pictures on her phone. It's basically
like your 13-year-old coming in, and your 13-year-old brother coming in and
reading your diary. It's not OK. And we have on equivocate that for folks
who understand that just because she's a celebrity that she'll be posted
online. It's her privacy. And they basically stole her personal property.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I'm with Maria on this. It's like going into
someone's house and stealing something. You violated the actual -- the
firewall, the barrier. You know, we have these laws that cover our medical
records, if a doctor releases or a nurse or a hospital releases anything
about your personal medical records. I mean, the fines in the jail time
all that is, are through the roof. The HIPPA laws. Nothing like that
applies to this sort of stuff. And frankly it's just as important, it's
just as private, it's just as personal. So frankly the idea that the
states are going to act on this, I personally don't want the state of South
Carolina acting on this. I want the federal government to make it so that
if someone does hack into my cloud and steals a picture of my happiness per
se, for lack of a better term, then guess what, they're going to jail for
a long time. If I don't want you to see my happiness, I don't want you to
see it.

SHARPTON: Let's move on to our next topic. American or African-
American. Actress Raven Simone's race comments lighting up the internet.
You remember her from "The Cosby Show" and more recently the Disney
Channel. Now in an interview with Oprah, she set off a debate over this
comment on race and how she identified herself.


RAVEN SYMONE, ACTRESS: I'm tired of being labeled. I'm an
American. I'm not an African-American. I'm an American.

OPRAH WINFREY, TELEVISION HOST: Oh, girl, twitter is on fire.

SYMONE: I'm sorry. I mean --

WINFREY: What? Oh, Lord!

SYMONE: I'm sorry.

WINFREY: What did you just say? Stop, stop, stop the tape right

SYMONE: I will say this.


SYMONE: I mean, I don't know where my roots go to. I don't know how
far back they go. I can't go on, you know, I don't know how far back and I
don't know what country in Africa I'm from. But I do know my roots are in
Louisiana, I'm American, and that's a colorless people. Because we're all
people. I have lots of things running through my veins.

WINFREY: You're going to get a lot of flak for saying you're not
African-Americans. You know that, right?

SYMONE: I don't label myself.

WINFREY: OK. So, I want you to say what you really mean by that.

SYMONE: What I really mean by that is I'm an American. That's what I
really mean. I have darker skin. I have a nice interesting grade of hair.
I connect with Caucasian, I connect with Asian, I connect with black, I
connect with Indian. I connect with each culture.

WINFREY: You are a melting pot in one body.

SYMONE: Aren't we all?


SYMONE: Isn't that what America's supposed to be?


SHARPTON: I'm not an African-American. She was trending online for
nearly 24 hours. Judge Faith, she's tired of being labeled. What do you
make of her comments?

FAITH: Rev, I respect a person's desire to define themselves the way
they want to define themselves. But I think when you take it a step
further and you infer that there's this somehow this notion of a colorless
or color-blind society, I think it's irresponsible. A lot of black people
walk around in these streets and they cannot afford to ignore race. It's a
part of their everyday lives. And there are a lot of people who sacrificed
and sweat blood, tears, everything, so that Raven Simone could sit where
she is and that I could sit where I am, and they did it, not because they
said they were colorless, but because they refused to let people deny their
humanity because of their color.

KUMAR: And there's a reason why Raven --

SHARPTON: Jimmy, you had an interesting take on this. Jimmy?

WILLIAMS: Well, look, I agree that we're all Americans, but at the
end of the day, I think that Raven should probably go back and take a
lesson in history. You know, the idea of a black American was not OK until
the 1960s, frankly by law, right? Has she thought about those struggles?
Has she thought about the people that have come well before that? So the
idea that we shun labels. I mean, this is what the GOP likes to do, they
like to live in this Utopia, this Onaida (ph), that the world is perfect,
it's colorless, it's sexless, et cetera. Guess what, the world does have
color, the world does have sex, the world does have ethnicity, and I think
we should embrace those. All of those things together make America the
best nation on the planet. And we shouldn't never run from that.


KUMAR: And I think the reason, sadly, the reason that she said that
she can only trace her roots back to Louisiana, is because our history of
individuals of press societies, have been scrubbed and that's what he can't
traced it. But there's a celebration of the idea that we are different and
how do we actually capitalize it? Because that's what going to make
different -- not just in the United States, but globally, because of those
differences. And it's a shame to see a young woman that says she's
colorless when she made her mark on the first African-American comedy that
was amazing. I mean, that's the irony behind all of this, Reverend. I
want your take, Reverend. I mean --

SHARPTON: I wish we had a lot more time for this. I wish we had a
lot more time for this one. I would just say to her that labels were
imposed on people. People didn't just grab the labels. People were
discriminated against because of who they were. Don't blame those that are
coming out of that. It is celebrating America to say that I am that and
can achieve. And I'm going to be watching to see if next time they need an
African-American actress in Hollywood with a big digit, whether she

Maria Teresa Kumar, Jimmy Williams and Faith Jenkins, thank you all
for your time this evening.

WILLIAMS: Thanks a lot.

JENKINS: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Ahead, cheer up Speaker Boehner. You fired up the old
twitter machine this morning and landed right in tonight's got you.


SHARPTON: It's Speaker Boehner's favorite line. You know the one.

are still asking, where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?

Where are the jobs?


SHARPTON: I've been asking Speaker Boehner the same question.
Today he finally revealed his jobs plan. Can I get a drumroll, please?


He tweeted about it today. This has been a long time coming. So,
here it is. America, there you go, it's blank.


BOEHNER: Ohhh, don't make me do this. Ohhh, this is too hard.


SHARPTON: I know it's hard to create a jobs plan, Mr. Speaker, but
it shouldn't be that hard to tweet about it. Now, we're having fun, but in
fairness, if you click on the link in Boehner's tweet, it takes you to some
vague talking points, bike reforming the tax code and the legal system.
The plan might as well be blank too. But Mr. Speaker, I'm here to help you
fill in the blanks. Here are some ideas. Raise the minimum wage. Equal
pay for equal work. Invest in the infrastructure. Extend jobless
benefits. Stop asking where are the jobs? Stop blocking the President's
ideas. And get to work.


BOEHNER: Are you kidding me!


SHARPTON: No, we're not. Did Speaker Boehner think we wouldn't
notice his trouble filling in the blanks? Nice try, but we got you.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, I'm here in Orlando, Florida, where this
morning I spoke about the effort to protect and expand voting rights. A
year after the Supreme Court gutted the voting rights act, that same court
is looking at voting laws in critical swing states, just four weeks before
the midterm elections. We've already seen the Supreme Court block early
voting in Ohio. Next, the -- court may rule on the voter I.D. law in
Wisconsin. And the court could also decide whether to restore anti-voting
measures in North Carolina. No matter how the court rules, we can't get
discouraged. We have to fight for every vote.

Thanks for watching. I'm Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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