All In With Chris Hayes, Thursday, October 9th, 2014
Read the transcript from the Thursday show
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: October 9, 2014
Guest: Francis Slay, Anthony Gray, Paul Waldman, Phillip Atiba Goff, Marq
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN:
Protests erupt in St. Louis after an officer-involved shooting, two
months after the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson.
Then, caught on tape.
LAMARD JOYE: Give me my money, man. Give me my money.
HAYES: Video of what seems to be a New York police officer stealing
Plus, the Secret Service versus the Obama administration. New leaks
to the same "Washington Post" reporter, this time, against the White House.
And, "All in America" hits the road with 130-foot-long wind turbine
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Each one of these blades, they weigh about nine
HAYES: Plus, the solar boom. We look at the explosive growth in
renewable energy and its surprising backers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Invest in solar and alternative energy.
HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
It`s been 61 days since 18-year-old Michael Brown were shot and killed
in Ferguson, Missouri. And the officer responsible, Darren Wilson, is
still on paid leave with no sign yet of indictment in the case.
As a series of planned marches and actions start today, tensions in
the St. Louis metro area are extremely high. Last night, people flooded to
the Shaw neighborhood of St. Louis after a fatal shooting between an 18-
year-old man named Vonderrit Myers, and an off-duty St. Louis police
According to the police, the uniformed, off-duty police officer was
working for a private security firm patrolling the neighborhood when he
drove passed three men who eventually fled. The officer identified as a
32-year-old with six years of service, followed the men in his vehicle and
got out and chased them on foot. Police say Myers approached the officer
in an aggressive manner. They say the officer then told Myers to
surrender, but he continued to come towards the officer and the two men
struggled. Myers then ran away, according to police and fired a gun at the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF SAM DOTSON, ST. LOUIS POLICE DEPT.: The suspect pointed the gun
at the officer and fired at least three rounds at the police officer. At
that point, the officer returned fire. As the officer moved towards the
suspect, the suspect continued to pull the trigger on his gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The officer shot 17 times at Myers who was pronounced dead at
the scene. He has been placed on administrative leave and the St. Louis
police chief announced an internal and criminal investigation.
Myers relatives, however, have disputed the police account of what
happened. His mother telling the "A.P." her son was holding a sandwich,
not a gun. Quote, "Police lie. They lied about Michael Brown, too."
Myers` cousin told "The St. Louis Dispatch", quote, "He had a sandwich
in his hand. They thought it was a gun. It was like Michael Brown all
Very soon, after the shooting took place, as many as 300 people
assembled, while police were cleaning up the scene. Emotions were very
high, the mood tense. People yelling things like "hands up, don`t shoot"
and "Who`s street, our street".
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HAYES: Crowds at one point surrounded a police car and kicked in the
taillights. Three police cars have been damaged in total. Ultimately, the
police left the scene and roads into the area were reopened.
But the aftermath of the fatal shooting miles away from Ferguson
showed very clearly that the all the anger, and frustration and distrust
that we saw on the streets of Ferguson after the shooting of Michael Brown
is still there throughout the metro St. Louis area. Tonight, the entire
St. Louis metro area remains on edge.
Joining me now is the mayor of St. Louis, Francis Slay.
Mayor Slay, I want you to respond to what he family is saying, they do
not believe the police account. They believe -- there`s no reason to
believe the police account, the police are lying about whether their family
member who died at the hands of St. Louis police was, in fact, armed.
MAYOR FRANCIS SLAY, ST. LOUIS, MO: This is a terrible tragedy, the
loss of a young man in a neighborhood in our city. And it`s something
that`s going to raise a lot of emotions. And that`s why it`s very
important that we handle this as a government, as a police force, to
investigate the investigation with a high level of sensitivity, to the high
emotions and the concerns and suspicions are out there, that we do it in a
very transparent way, and that we have the highest level of independence in
So, we have called for -- there`s going to be a couple of independent
investigations that are going on here. We have our prosecuting attorney
that`s going to be doing an investigation, independent investigation, in
addition to the internal affairs of the police department. But we`re also
have a -- the United States attorney, the Department of Justice is going to
be involved in, as well.
We want to make sure that this is handled right and that people have
confidence in the investigation itself and the results. So, sensitivity,
transparency, and independence is, you know, that`s what the investigation
HAYES: What will the role of the Department of Justice or the local
U.S. attorney be in this?
SLAY: Well, what they`re going to do is they`re going to be
partnering with the circuit attorney, the prosecuting attorney of city of
St. Louis and taking a fresh look at the evidence and, you know, deciding
whether or not there are going to be any federal charges or standing civil
rights charges, as well.
So, there`s going to be a lot of eyes looking at this. We wanted to
make sure, we understand the high emotions. We understand the sensitivity
and the issues about concerns and suspicions of government and the police
department. So we want to make sure when people look at this, that the
transparency and independence is there.
HAYES: What was going through your mind last night as you were
getting reports on this and you were seeing -- I imagine, you were seeing
the same live stream, the same images. You can see how angry people are
and you can see how little trust there is for the police.
SLAY: My first reaction was, you know, I thought what a tragedy.
Young man shot and killed in one of our neighborhoods in the city of St.
Louis. We have to approach this with sensitivity.
The other thing is, I was with the police chief when I got news of
this. And first reaction is, we have to make sure, as a department, as a
city, that we handle this with restraint and transparency.
Police officers did a great job last night. No arrests happened.
They really exercised a high level of restraint. And we`re able to get
information out as quickly as we could. So, the communications component
We understand that there was high level of emotions, particularly at
the heels of what happened with the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson.
So, this was handled carefully and very deliberately. And we think that
that helped, but, you know, we understand there`s still a high level of
emotion and anger.
So, what we do from now on matters. We want to make sure that we do
this right and we get it right. That`s important.
HAYES: I mean, this is a case in which it seems like forensic
evidence can be established fairly definitively what happened, at least in
terms of the gun and the casings, the finger print of the gun, possible gun
residue so everyone will be looking for that as it develops.
Mayor Francis Slay of St. Louis -- thank you.
Joining me now, MSNBC national reporter, Trymaine Lee has been
covering the events in Ferguson since Michael Brown`s death.
And, Trymaine, you are there right now. This is the first night of
what is planned to be a weekend of protest. What`s the scene like?
TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC NATIONAL REPORTER: So far, the scene is
relatively quiet here in Ferguson, in part because everyone`s over in the
Shaw neighborhood of St. Louis, around the scene of last night`s shooting.
So, right now, it`s pretty calm out here. Folks are still, again,
talking about the situation that happened just over a dozen miles in St.
Louis last night. So, they`re preparing for this big weekend. But this
kind of -- this shooting has kind of reignited passions all over again.
HAYES: Yes, you saw last nights there were a tremendous amount of
people that were able to get there very quickly. Some of the neighborhood
-- some of the organizers that have been involved in the protest of Michael
What are people expecting for tonight, for Friday and this whole
weekend? This -- I`ve heard as many as 6,000 to 10,000 people headed to
Ferguson from across the country?
LEE: Organizers are expecting a record amount of protesters. They
say that, previously, President Obama came to town and brought a number of
people that set the previous record in St. Louis. But they say if they top
over 7,000 or 8,000 people, it will hit a record.
But, again, everything has been kind of ramped up with last night`s
shooting. And so, what they had expected is already what they were billing
as this weekend of resistance and actions and demonstrations throughout the
weekend. And I think it`s even fueled to even greater now that we`re in
the wake of last night`s shooting.
HAYES: It was striking to me last night watching the live feed.
People are talking about he was only holding a sandwich. He was holding a
sandwich. There were a number of people who were saying that he had been
tased, in fact, people that were on the scene. Police say that the officer
in question didn`t have a taser. That, again, nothing has been
But it was striking to me the gulf between the police account and what
people on the scene feel like they can trust coming from the police.
LEE: I think -- today is October 9th. So, we`re at the two-month
anniversary since Michael Brown was killed. Since that time, you had
Kajieme Powell shot and killed, you know, within the next week. The
initial accounts, police said he had knife right over his head, the video
countered that. And then, just last month, you had another shooting, just
-- a town away from here.
So the biggest casualty in all of this besides the young people who
are losing their lives is trust. So, they didn`t trust the police before,
and that gulf is just getting bigger and bigger. It`s not clear what, at
this point, can bridge that gap.
Because as police said, there`s forensic evidence. There`s a bullet
hole in the police car. They recovered a .9 millimeter weapon. Even
still, people just don`t believe the police. They trust them.
HAYES: Trymaine Lee, thank you very much.
Joining me now, Anthony Gray. He`s attorney for Michael Brown`s
Mr. Gray, where is the family at right now as they watch this process
unfold. Protesters coming this weekend. The tragic shooting last night
and a grand jury process that seems to be extended indefinitely at least
ANTHONY GRAY, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN`S FAMILY: Yes. Well,
mentally and physically as well as psychologically, they`re stationary.
They`re pretty much at the same place that they were on August 9th.
They`re still grieving.
As you just alluded to, the process is still open. We`re 61 days
removed with no answers. No conclusion. It just seems to me that the
longer that the time goes on, the longer that the grieving gets worse. The
trust, as Trymaine just alluded to, is wider. It`s just not a good outcome
for anyone on either front.
HAYES: You are calling for, the family is calling for, the
appointment of a special prosecutor. Why is that? What do you think that
will do? Why is that appropriate in this case?
GRAY: Well, we think, at this point, it`s crystal clear. What
happened, Chris, recently, Darren Wilson was scheduled to appear on another
case. In fact, the case that he received the award for in a video that has
been airing on the internet. He did not show up for that case.
It became clear to us that wait a minute, that`s where the conflict
lies. There`s a clear conflict with this prosecutor`s office in seeing
that Officer Wilson is not indicted. Now, I`ll tell you why. If he is
indicted, cases like that and other cases and potentially all cases that
Darren Wilson was scheduled the appear on or has appeared are now in
jeopardy. They can call those cases into question.
So, if he`s clear, then, obviously, those cases can go forward,
because as they`re all being handled by the prosecutor`s office, there`s
assistance out there that`s in conflict of interest. That it should be
done by someone who doesn`t have other cases that rely on this officer`s
testimony in order to prosecute.
HAYES: There are some who are suspicious in the motivation behind the
delay in the case of the grand jury which has been extended into the
winter. I`ve heard some in the community offered the idea that this is
essentially wait until it`s bitterly cold out when people aren`t assembling
on the street or less likely, to announce the final resolution.
Do you think the delay is unreasonable?
GRAY: Yes, sir. When you think about what we`re looking at in terms
of evidence, Chris, you`ve heard it firsthand. I`ve heard it. I`ve seen
There are witnesses out there that describe a scenario that`s
indicative of a crime, period. With those witness` testimony, all you have
to do at that point is you charge the person that`s accused of committing
the crime. It doesn`t seem like you need a grand jury process to reach the
conclusions that most people have reached based on the evidence, through
the eyewitness testimonies that we`ve heard thus far.
Let me just point this out. If somebody else is contradicting that
evidence through some other testimony, then what you have is a conflict in
facts. So, those facts need to be sorted out by a jury, not a grand jury.
That evidence is still good and it should go through the process. That`s
all we`re claiming from the very beginning.
HAYES: We should note that, legally, the threshold for an indictment
is far below the threshold for a conviction, which is beyond reasonable
HAYES: And it`s possible that there`s countervailing evidence, that
would still meet the criteria in some other case of an indictment.
Anthony Gray, the attorney for the Michael Brown family, one of three,
thank you very much.
GRAY: Thank you.
HAYES: The latest in the battle between the Secret Service and the
White House and it involves sex workers. That`s ahead.
HAYES: All right, this started last night at 10:00 p.m. and it is
big. The battle between the Secret Service and the White House has
escalated into all-out war.
The latest bomb dropped in the pages of "The Washington Post" or
online, I should say, the last night at 10:00 p.m., a report that contrary
to what the Obama administration told us back in 2012, someone affiliated
with the White House may be involved with the Colombia prostitution
scandal, which led to the dismissal of 10 Secret Service agents.
When that story first broke open, this was the administration`s line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY CARNEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There have been no
specific, credible allegations of misconduct by anyone on the White House
advance team or the White House staff. There has been no indication that
any member of the White House advance team engaged in any improper conduct
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Now, "The Post" reports that the Secret Service had evidence,
a volunteer on-the-White House advance, a 25-year-old law student named
Johnny Dach, may have had a prostitute in his room, evidence they shared
with top officials, including the White House counsel Kat Roemer (ph) at
the time, who after interviewing the individual in question concluded he
had done nothing wrong.
On top of that, according to "The Post", investigation by the
inspector general`s office, the Department Homeland Security turned up
further evidence of involvement. He was instructed to remove evidence from
an official report. According to three sources, investigators said, "We
were directed to delay the report of the investigation until after the 2012
Through a lawyer, the advance team member, Johnny Dach, denied any
involvement in the prostitution scandal, and after the story went live,
last night, the Obama administration pushed back hard, issuing point by
point rebuttals. A snarky tweet from Press Secretary Josh Earnest, quote,
"Supposed WaPo exclusive was previously reported by "A.P.", CBS, ABC,
Politico, the Hill, and others two years."
This is just the latest salvo in an internal political battle between
the White House and the Secret Service that`s been playing out in public on
the front pages of "The Washington Post", started with the series of
damning leaks about the Secret Service all the same reporter. The Secret
Service fumbling its response to a 2011 shooting at the White House, the
recent fence jumper making it all the way into the East Room, and being
stopped by an off-duty agent who just happened to be there and an armed
contractor with a criminal record getting onto a elevator with a president
and his gun, all of which ultimately helped take down Secret Service
Director Julia Pierson.
And now, in what is a high stakes escalation, for the first time, one
of those leaks to "The Washington Post" appears to be directed at the White
Joining me now, Paul Waldman, blogger for "The Washington Post",
contributing editor to "The American Prospect".
All right. Paul, I have many feeling about this story, complicated
(INAUDIBLE). What is your reaction to this?
PAUL WALDMAN, BLOGGER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, you`re right that
it is a little strange to see the Secret Service doing this kind of thing,
people within the Secret Service. You know, we normally think about them
as this group of highly-trained professionals who are all, you know,
upstanding and upright. And they would never kind of sully themselves by
engaging in a kind of bureaucratic infighting that`s so common in
Washington, one of feature of which is strategic leaks to the press.
So, it`s a little jarring to see the Secret Service doing that or
people there. But, you know, when you think about it, it`s not too
surprising. It`s a bureaucracy like any other, and when there are people
there who feel like they`re being treated unfairly, or that their
institution is under attack, they`re going to strike back.
HAYES: That`s right.
WALDMAN: And that`s one of the most time-honored ways to strike back
in Washington, is to tell the press things that some people might not want
HAYES: Well, and this I thought was the key graph here, the way the
White House handled the scandal remains a sore point among rank and file
members of the Secret Service more than two years later, former and current
Secret Service agents said they`re angry at the White House`s public
insistence that none of its team members were involved, and it`s a private
decision not fully investigate one of its own, while their colleagues had
their careers ruined or hampered."
And, at one level, I understand that. At the other level, it seems
like the complaint here is that the individual`s tasked with protecting the
life of the president, his staff and his family, were held to a far-higher
standard than a 25-year-old volunteer who is getting a per diem that does
not seem crazy to me, like these are different standards that are applied
to the people that the United States Secret Service and this individual in
WALDMAN: Right. They are highly trained professionals who have an
incredibly serious job to do. So, of course, they should be held to higher
standard. And that`s why I think when this certain story came out a couple
of years ago, people were so shocked to hear that Secret Service agents,
when you say that, everyone thinks Clint Eastwood, that they were down
there in Colombia cavorting with prostitutes and getting drunk. And a lot
of people didn`t lose their jobs over time and I`m sure that there are
people who are very angry about that. And, you know, in the course of
that, they probably feel like this guy should have gotten more attention.
You know, the White House, basically, their line is they did an
investigation, their own investigation, and it was kind of perfunctory.
You know, they interviewed this guy, Johnny Dach, and he denied it and they
believed him. But the real question is what happened at the inspector
generals office of the Department of Homeland Security.
There, the allegation is much more serious than, you know, them --
what we`re getting about the White House.
HAYES: Right. And the investigation there, the allegation there is
the White House is masked with an internal I.G. report which is a big no-no
in Washington. You don`t do that. That seems to be where the most sort of
exposure is for the White House if, in fact, they were interfering. Of
course, there`s testimony back when this is looked into in the hearings in
2012, that this was all part of the routine editing of the report and you
can also see right on the line between proper and improper White House
saying, inspector general, the Department of Homeland Security, your
portfolio is the Secret Service and not our advanced team.
WALDMAN: Right. And the chief conflict at least in the reporting
that we`ve seen in "The Post" so far is between the person who is taking
the lead of the investigation in the I.G.`s office and his boss who was the
acting director of the I.G.`s office at the time. And they are the two
people who have the biggest disagreement.
The investigator says he was being pressured. And things that -- his
information about this White House volunteer was taken out. The person who
was the acting director of the I.G.`s office at the time said that was just
kind of the routine, that there wasn`t anything, you know, untoward about
So, the thing is, I am sure that we`ll be learning more because as you
say, if this is some kind of a battle between people in the Secret Service
and people in the White House, it`s not going to end with this article.
There`s going to be more leaks and everyone is going to keep trying to
shape the public understanding of it to their advantage.
HAYES: This is where it gets strange for me. You have a bureaucratic
war between the White House staff and the United States Secret Service,
that`s a weird things since that Secret Service is there to protect the
life of the president and his first family. It`s very unclear how this
plays out if it escalates.
WALDMAN: Yes, and that`s troubling in and of itself. I mean, it`s
perfectly possible that one side is completely telling the truth and the
other isn`t. And, you know, if that`s the case, whichever side is telling
the truth there, their version of events ought to prevail. But the idea
that there is this kind of conflict between the White House and the Secret
Service is really, really troubling because, you know, that shouldn`t
happen. They`re supposed to be those highly trained professionals who take
every second of their jobs very seriously and, you know, one of the things
we learned --
HAYES: And who could be trusted, it should be add also, they see a
lot of stuff and who could be trusted to keep that, as the name indicates,
Paul Waldman, thank you very much.
WALDMAN: My pleasure.
HAYES: "All in America: Coal Country" continues tonight.
Plus, the police video that doesn`t end the way you might it will.
All that`s ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE FERRELL, RANCHER: Wind is my most drought-resilient crop. The
wind blows even during a drought, even when I can`t have livestock on the
ranch. I don`t know of a single land owner that has a wind farm that isn`t
grateful for it. I know that there`s been thousands of jobs created that
would not have been there, otherwise.
I`ve heard as high as 60,000 homes being serviced by this wind farm,
basically because of the quality of the wind. It tends to blow here all
We put power in the grid every day, since this project was built. If
you`ll notice over there, those trees are actually leaning. They`ve never
had a windless day in their lives. The grass and the wind are
inexhaustible and if treated properly, we can be doing this centuries from
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: When "All in America" visited Pete Ferrell`s ranch in Kansas
this may, we were gob smacked, not just by the power generated by the wind
turbines on his land, by the sheer of it. I mean, those are bison grazing
on the ranch. Bison are big. They can grow over 6 feet tall and they
weight a ton and they are absolutely dwarfed by the wind turbines.
It made us wonder, how on earth does something that big even get
from a factory to a wind farm. So we traveled to North Dakota to find out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve had people ask me what these things are. Best
result I ever came out with was that it was a prosthetic limb for a whale.
HAYES (voice-over): The sheer scale of these blades boggles them up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Each one of these blades, they weigh about 9 tons. The
diameter is about 300 feet so that`s about the length of a football field.
HAYES: And they are everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the U.S., we have about 15,000 wind turbines.
HAYES: GE got into the wind business in 2002. It now makes 40 percent of
all wind turbines in the U.S. and is constantly refining its technology to
safely harness the wind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at a wind turbine, that wind flow creates
two forces. One is a torque which turns the gearbox which turns the
It also creates a thrust that is being created as equivalent to five
F-18 engines. We invest in a lot of technology to be able to develop new
controls that allow you to operate the turbines in those conditions.
HAYES: Those designs are made into reality. You have factories like LM
Wind Power in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Business is good. The plant
employs 630 workers and runs seven days a week and they expect to produce
1800 blades this year alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About six blades are coming out, sometimes five are
coming out every single day.
HAYES: And every single one of these blades needs to be loaded and
transported to its final destination often thousands of miles away. It`s a
massive undertaking literally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A normal truck and trailer are 80 foot. That`s, we`re
almost three times longer than that.
HAYES: This September, the final destination for three of those blades was
just 255 miles away. A brand new community wind farm in South Dakota. A
drive that normally takes four hours took almost twice that long, down the
freeway through small towns until finally reaching Oak Tree Farm.
BILL MAKENS, OAK TREE ENERGY: This is the first of the delivery of the 11
turbines that will be here. It`s kind of like Christmas morning opening
HAYES: A six-generation family farm, Oak Tree, is now branching out into
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve been farming wheat and corn and soybeans. So we
thought we`d give a change to farm the wind.
HAYES: When all 11 turbines are up and running, the wind farm is expected
to power 5,000 homes.
MAKENS: There`s one thing you can count on in South Dakota is the wind.
HAYES: Wind energy supports an estimated 50,000 jobs across the country
and is now the fastest growing source of power in the United States.
KEITH LONGTIN, G.E. WIND PRODUCTS: The U.S. has about 5 percent
electricity generation coming from wind power. Put that in perspective,
the whole nuclear industry is about 12 percent to 15 percent and they`ve
been doing it since the `50s.
HAYES: And who knows what the future growth trajectory for wind power
could look like.
BILL BURGA: We`re at a point where energy independence is what we are
looking for. We are virtually there.
HAYES: It`s not just wind energy that`s booming. Solar energy is too and
it`s getting backing from people you might not expect. The surprising
support for solar next.
HAYES: All right, if you look at the history of the earth encased in ice
core records in Antarctica starting 800,000 years ago, this is what the
level of carbon looked like in the atmosphere, some fluctuation, but pretty
much under 300 parts per million.
This, right here, this is where humans appeared on the planet, about
200,000 years ago. The carbon levels continued to go slightly up and down,
but under 300 parts per million until wait a moment the levels of the
carbon in the atmosphere shoots up almost hitting 400 parts per million for
the first time in 800,000 years by 2008.
That`s according to readings from Monoloa Observatory in Hawaii.
So, you might ask yourself, what happened right around here. The level of
carbon suddenly shot up. That would be the industrial revolution, the
harnessing of fossil fuels.
And if we keep putting more carbon in the atmosphere, by 2100, this
is where government projections have us ending up, up here. Now if this
here is the era of fossil fuel, which in historical sense is a tiny sliver
Then this, the vast majority of humanity, this can be considered the
era of solar power for a huge part of our history as human beings. In fact
for almost of all it, we are using solar power.
And then something incredible has happened, we found these amazing
things called fossil fuels buried in the ground and we could burn it. And
all of a sudden, it allowed us this incredible stuff we associate with the
manifest bounty of industrialized life from the internet to modern medicine
to trains to airconditioning to electricity.
It`s great. I love it. It`s just got one problem. It`s put more
carbon in the atmosphere than there has been for 800,000 years. So the big
question is, can we return to the solar energy source, but still keep all
the awesome stuff we have.
And, for a long time, people thought even asking that question was
preposterous. But suddenly, it`s not looking so ridiculous. Last month,
the International Energy Agency reported that solar could be the number one
source of energy across the entire world by 2050.
That`s partly because the price of solar electricity keeps dropping
at an astonishing rate and the installation of solar, keeps growing.
AL GORE: In many parts of the world, solar electricity is now cheaper than
or equal to the price of electricity from dirty sources of energy,
principally, fossil fuels.
HAYES: In nearly 80 different countries around the globe, solar is as
affordable as electricity from the grid. Here in the U.S., that is
happening in at least ten states, too.
In Hawaii, residential solar is so cheap that Barkleys Bank warned
that traditional U.S. utilities are looking like a bad investment saying
there are near term risk to credit from regulators and utilities falling
behind the solar adoption curve.
In California, solar is growing at an unparalleled rate. The golden
state installed more rooftop solar last year than in the last 30 years
HAYES: And solar isn`t just making inroads in traditionally eco conscious
JAMES MARLOW: It`s been a very, very high growth sector across the U.S.
and one that we should continue to invest in.
HAYES: We went to Georgia, home to one of the biggest solar farms east of
the Mississippi, the 150-acre Simon Solar Farm near the town of Social
Circle. That means jobs for companies like Radiant Solar, which handles
maintenance at the farm.
MARLOW: There are around 1,500 jobs today of people who work full time in
the solar industry.
HAYES: And in part because of that job creation, solar has a broad
coalition of supporters in Georgia.
DERBIS DOOLAY: Thinking green energy is something only people in the left
care about, tree huggers, and they forget about our history. They forget
that Teddy Roosevelt was conservationist. I consider myself a
HAYES: Debbie Doolay also considers herself a Tea Party Republican and a
big supporter of solar.
DOOLAY: It`s a free market issue. Energy freedom, energy choice, that is
something that`s huge.
HAYES: And it`s something that Debbie Doolay and her green coalition want
everyone even big oil and coal companies to get behind.
DOOLAY: My advice to conservatives and to people on the left, progressive
as well. There is an energy revolution of this nation moving towards green
energy and decentralized energy. Don`t fight it. Embrace it. Stop
fighting. Invest in solar and alternative energy.
HAYES: Right now, coal is still the biggest energy source in the U.S.
providing some 39 percent of the electricity generated last year. But
solar energy prices are predicted to continue to decrease dramatically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cost of solar has dropped 80 percent in the last
five years. It`s really been an incredible drop similar to the drops we`ve
seen in flat panel TVs, computers, or cell phones.
HAYES: And it`s the speed of that drop that offers so much hope. In
barely more than a decade, cell phones become so cheap and ubiquitous that
some telecom companies are dismantling the land lines that Americans have
relied on for more than a hundred years. Can something similar be
happening right now with solar energy and coal?
HAYES: We`ll answer that question and many more tomorrow on our final day
ALL IN AMERICA, Coal Country. Tweet us @allinwithchris or go to Facebook,
Allinwithchris to ask your questions. We`ll see if we can get you some
But first, tonight, this is the summer cell phone recordings of
police stops and this latest one is going to blow your mind.
HAYES: Over the last few months, but it feels like almost every day, we
have seen disturbing video after disturbing video. Police from all over
the country caught on video interacting with the community, if you can call
A community that is often though not always black or brown because
fully 90 percent of American adults have cell phones today and most cell
phones have cameras, people are quick to document these interactions and
post them online.
The footage you`re about to see in a video released just this week
of a police interaction in Washington, D.C., it`s different. It`s pretty
shocking but not in a way a lot of these videos are. It started when D.C.
police officers responded to a burglar alarm in a very, very wealthy part
of town. Take a look.
HAYES: I`ve watched that video a lot today and there is so much to talk
about in that police interaction about perception, about how policing
works, about race and power and privilege. And we will talk about all of
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see this? Look? Look? You see this? You see
this? Give me my money, man. Give me my money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just stole his money. He just stole his money. He
just stole his money. That`s my money. He just stole his money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ain`t going to take his money?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get his badge number. Get his badge number. Get his
badge number. Right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there. I see it.
HAYES: That video is from here in New York, Coney Island, to be exact. We
don`t know what happened before or after the video was shot. It happened
on September 16th. Again, same thing, same time again.
Interaction starts and the cell phone cameras come out. The video
begins when an NYPD officer appearing to push Lamar Joy against the fence
of the basketball court searching him and apparently taking a wad of cash
The officer then appears to pepper spray Joy and his sister when he
asked for his money back. The Brooklyn district attorney tells the "New
York Daily News" who published the video, quote, "We are aware of the
alleged incident is being actively and thoroughly investigated."
Joining me now, Phillip Atiba Goff, associate professor of
psychology at UCLA and president of the Center for Policing Equity, and
Marq Claxton, a retired NYPD detective and founder of the Black Law
Marq, let me start with you. I want to talk about the video we saw
before the break of the woman and the man on the corner in that
neighborhood because what it hammered home to me is that it really run by
rules or law or what the Supreme Court says?
It is run by power and authority. That woman didn`t have the power
and clearly the authority she had that would have got a very different way.
No one at that point is citing what you can and can`t be stopped for by the
Supreme Court. It`s all about who what status in society at that moment
the interaction happens. Is that true?
MARQ CLAXTON, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: It is absolutely true. It`s a
fascinating video because here, you have the civilian. This is really
where you mentioned it earlier with race and class and economic status, all
colliding in this one video.
But here you have this particular woman who happens to be an
attorney, not only confront, question, assert herself, but she also had
modest and then ultimately dismissed the police in this environment where
you have all of these different elements that collided into one. It is
really deep sociological study that one particular incident that`s been
HAYES: You could write a dissertation about that incident, Dr. Goff,
partly because of the way that, you know, here you have the woman who is
the commanding presence here is herself, white. The two officers appeared
to be black.
At least the officer who is outside the car, the suspect in
question, who shouldn`t have been a suspect is black and you`re seeing the
way that all of these kind of power relations play out in realtime.
PHILLIP ATIBA GOFF, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, UCLA: Yes, that`s
exactly right. I have to say, I got forwarded that very video by a friend
who said you have to see this and I didn`t know what was going to be the
outcome of it.
So I am watching it and when someone says you have to see it and
it`s the police and it`s to me, right, doctor raises them in law
enforcement. I am sitting there terrified that we`re going to see somebody
lose their life.
And the kind of anger I felt at the woman who was being so assertive
with law enforcement because those situations don`t end well for us. And
the relief that I felt afterwards, I can`t express how important it is that
there we saw a member of the public having their voice.
And asserting the simple power of human dignity and the frustration,
rage and hurt that so many people feel just because they don`t feel they
can do that because they don`t live in that neighborhood.
HAYES: Mark, from the perspective of a police officer, I`ve been talking
to the cops as we`ve been covering this more and more. And you`re in these
dynamic situations where people might get heated or angry at you at all the
What is the rule of thumb there? What are you doing? How are you
making your judgments in that moment? If that woman has been an 18-year-
old black man who is saying, get the hell out of our neighborhood, I
imagine it would have been a different result. How are you making those
judgments in the heat of the moment?
CLAXTON: What unfortunately what happens is there is so much subjectivity
in policing now a days. I mean, if you consider, for example, if you look
at another case where a person asserts their rights and it`s videotaped.
What happened in Dusty, Ohio, for example, or if you look at what
happened more recently in Indiana, you`ll see the police reaction to
certain individuals asserting their rights is vastly different.
And in fact much more dangerous for the person who really asserts
themselves. So for a police officer, it`s just too subjective in the
climate of law enforcement.
HAYES: So Dr. Goff, it seems to me we are now entering a new era of the
videotape, of the cell phone taped police interaction and it`s spreading
virally. Because every time a video comes out, it gets aired.
And when it gets aired, it puts the fun in people`s head the next
time they are witnessing interaction, take out the camera. We have the kid
in the backseat of the car in Indiana, who take out the camera. What is
that going to do to all of this? I feel like we are in completely new
GOFF: I think that`s exactly right. We are in completely new terrain. I
hope that it`s not just going to be cell phone cameras and then eventually
body cameras and dash cameras, but that there is going to be generally more
The other thing that`s going on, at the same time that we are seeing
what`s happening in Ferguson, St. Louis and northwest D.C. is that law
enforcement is also starting to collect data and so data is not going to go
viral in the same way.
But at the very least, we`re going to have an actual audit of police
behavior. And we can start preparing against that. My hope is that that
becomes such a radical force for change in police culture and the way that
we think about race in the country as these viral videos are.
HAYES: Marq, one officer, ex-officer I talked to in an interview a while
back was talking about the problem of bad cops. Someone you know on the
force that is, even if not dirty, the way that they interact,
disrespectful, they always escalate.
They`ll come into a situation that you have calmed down. It blows
up because they start calling people names. One of the possibilities seems
to me from this new era we are entering is that those people get exposed
much more quickly.
I mean, the officer in question in that NYPD video it appears
someone taking money out of someone`s wallet and then pepper spraying
someone, there`s going to be accountability I think for that in a way that
if the camera wasn`t there, probably wouldn`t be and who knows if in fact
he does what he appears to do. How many other times he`s done it?
CLAXTON: Well, we hope that there`s some level of accountability because
the camera is there. Keep in mind, many of these incidents that we`ve been
seeing, the police officers are well aware that there are cameras there.
So a camera, in itself, does not necessarily keep the police officer
from engaging, you know, in engaging behavior that we find offensive and
sometimes illegal. It`s just one component of it.
There is an expectation on so many different levels that the police
will police themselves and are within their ranks that when you consider
the law enforcement environment and strategies throughout the nation, this
heavy handed, aggressive law enforcement. That seems problematic if not
impossible at this time.
HAYES: Philip Atiba Goff, Marq Claxton, thank you, Gentlemen. That is ALL
IN for this evening. "RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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