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The Ed Show for Monday, October 13th, 2014

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Date: October 13, 2014

Guest: Rick Weiland, David Montgomery, Jean Ross, Peter Hotez, Katrina
Vanden Heuvel, Ruth Conniff, Bernie Sanders

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York. Let`s get to work.


selling citizenship for a half a million bucks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the simple story of massive fraud.

SCHULTZ: This EB-5 scandal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five is the category specific to immigrant investors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Its EB-5 program, sometimes called citizenship for

WEILAND: It`s just a cut to the front of the immigration line.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A kind of fraud that occurs when money, greed and
absolute power corrupt absolutely.

WEILAND: There`s a lot of weird, very troublesome things that have

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was done under the watch of then Governor Mike

SCHULTZ: The former Republican Governor Mike Rounds who was surrounded in
controversy over an economic development project.

FRM. GOV. MIKE ROUNDS, (R) SOUTH DAKOTA: I believe the EB-5 project was
good for South Dakota.

WEILAND: We had a millions of dollars, you know, are missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The potential $140 million fraud.

WEILAND: The former secretary of the Governor`s Office of Economic
Development committed suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just heard from the doctor this morning saying it
couldn`t have been a suicide.

WEILAND: Yeah, I don`t believe that that I swear as well with the people
here in South Dakota or anywhere in the country.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

Well, in three weeks, voters will decide if Republicans will control both
Houses of the Congress.

Political experts have been predicting doom and gloom for the Democrats for
months. Tonight, I`ll show you what I think the Beltway insiders just
might be missing.

I spent last week in Iowa and in South Dakota. In the Hawkeye State, new
polling shows extreme Tea Party candidate Joni Ernst slipping to a 1 point
lead over Congressman Bruce Braley.

In South Dakota Former Governor Mike Rounds is sinking like a rock in his
bid to fill Senator Tim Johnson`s seat. Prairie populist Rick Weiland has
climbed within four points of Rounds in the latest poll. Former Senator
and so-called independent Larry Pressler brings up the rear at 23 percent.

Now the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee has outside and outside
groups have put in over $2 million into this race. The DSCC put some money
to work today hammering Rounds for his questionable handling of the EB-5


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve heard about Mike Rounds citizenship-for-sale
scheme. The Fallout. The investigations. Turns out there`s more. After
using a beef packing plant to sell citizenship to wealthy Chinese
investors, Rounds gave special tax breaks to a shady offshore corporation
to keep the scheme afloat.

Mike Rounds. Schemes. Special Favors. Investigations.

The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee is responsible for the content
of this advertising.


SCHULTZ: So what is the EB-5 Program? It gives very little media
attention. EB-5 allows foreigners to obtain U.S. green cards by investing
a minimum of $500,000 in American business project to create jobs.

The EB-5 issue has South Dakota voters` attention at this hour.

I was in Aberdeen in South Dakota, home of the Northern Beef Packers plant
at the heart of this scandal. The $115 million Northern Beef Packers plant
went bankrupt when the Chinese EB-5 investors bailed out.

Mike Rounds was the Governor when South Dakota was selling the U.S.
citizenship to Chinese investors. Rounds and his former administration are
neck-deep in this scandal and it may cause the Republicans an easy win on
the prairie that they were counting on.


The Rounds administration`s crowned jewel of economic development had a lot
of hope and promise but not much else.

Nothing from the start seemed to work. Locals say the project was flawed
from the start. Mismanaged, under-funded and in the end, a big cost to the

ZACH CRAGO, EXEC. DIR. SDDP: EB-5 is an immigrant investor program that
allows wealthy foreigners to purchase a green card, permanent residency in
the United States for $500,000 if they put that money in a local project.

Here in South Dakota, something went terribly wrong in the administration
of this program during Governor Mike Rounds` tenure as Governor.

Mike Rounds` employee Joop Bollen signed an illegal contract with a company
the he owns to privatize the EB-5 Program. This was something the EB-5
Program was a key component of Mike Rounds` economic development strategy.

Case in point, the Northern Beef Packers plant here in South Dakota, $100
million beef packing plant that is now bankrupt.

SCHULTZ: No one here in South Dakota knows exactly how the EB-5 scandal is
going to affect this election. But for Governor Rounds, it is certainly
his biggest challenge.

He is trying to convince people of the state that there was a multimillion
dollar economic development project going on with this meat processing
plant. His office was administering a federal program but he didn`t do
anything wrong and he didn`t know anything about it. That`s a tough sell.

ROUNDS: I believe the EB-5 project was did for South Dakota.

SCHULTZ: It was sold to the people that this was going to be a big
economic boost to the community.

MARK REMILY, ABERDEEN CITY COUNCIL: Correct. And everybody in the
community got behind it and was given them credit and they wanted it to
succeed because it was going to be a big economic boom for Aberdeen.

SCHULTZ: So, who`s on the hook for the money now to the city?

REMILY: Well, the city probably won`t get that money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After using a beef packing plant to sell citizenship to
wealthy Chinese investors, Rounds gave special tax breaks to a shady
offshore corporation to keep the scheme afloat.

REMILY: Well, I was trying to find out how much money Aberdeen lost in
this whole scenario so I got a hold to the bankruptcy records.

SCHULTZ: Who`s responsible?

REMILY: I think it goes back to the beginning. It goes all the way to the
top with the EB-5 money. And there was 90 different EB-5 investors that
put money into this project and so that totals $45 million extra on top of
the $119 million that was first allocated. So, that`s a lot of money
that`s just gone. And we know who didn`t get the money, its people in

promises made that were never kept.

SCHULTZ: What happened to the beef processing plant from your perspective?

SCHUMACHER: Well, you know, the funding was, you know, they were behind
the eight ball. I think they start with as far as hitting funding to
operate the operating money. And I think that was probably the biggest
obstacle. Well, it was the biggest obstacle. It couldn`t actually go out
and buy enough cattle to supply the plant.

weren`t correct, you know? On the beginning, even building lagoons, we
can`t get the right equipment.

SCHULTZ: So corners were cut?

HOLSHIED: Lot of corners were cut.

SCHULTZ: Totally vanished?

HOLSHIED: Very terrible.

SCHULTZ: Did you get paid?

HOLSHIED: And we`re still haven`t been paid for away just 15 months later.

ROUNDS: We didn`t lose any tax money.

DAN ZIMBAUM, PROPERTY OWNER: On the day the plant closed roughly within a
month, 20 apartments vacated. You know, the employees, they had work in
there, really didn`t have any ties to Aberdeen. So their wages quit, they
just have (ph) and left.

SCHULTZ: So that had have cost you a lot of money?

ZIMBAUM: A substantial amount. And not just me, the people I manage for

SCHULTZ: How sour is the town on that?

ZIMBAUM: You know it`s hard to say. A lot of people are still hopeful it
does open. I am, you know, I`d love -- I still have empty apartments
because of that. You know, there`s a lot of new construction came in at
the same time, you know, because there was a shortage of apartments. So, I
really hope it does open up.

ROUNDS: The voters most certainly are talking about EB-5 every single day
and we`ve seen that reflected in the polls. Mike Rounds is a former two-
term Governor of the State of South Dakota.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America is not broken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has hurt not only the Aberdeen area economy with
this beef packing plant but has in fact, risked the reputation of our
entire state. Mike Rounds championed this program on the state`s good


SCHULTZ: The Ed Show reached out to Mike Rounds` campaign to invite him on
the program with his response to the EB-5 scandal. Rounds has not
responded to our request. If I have to go back to South Dakota to
interview the former Governor, I will do that.

Joining me now is Democratic candidate to the United States Senate in South
Dakota, Rick Weiland. Rick, good to have you with us tonight. Your poll
numbers are moving up, is that because of EB-5 and as residence in the
state become aware of what is unfolded with the story?

WEILAND: Well, I think that`s part of it, Ed but that`s certainly not all
of them. I`ve been traveling nonstop every town in South Dakota. My
second tour through. This is about earning it, not buying it. And I
really think that that kind of campaign, that kind of grassroots is
connecting with the voters.

SCHULTZ: Well, what is important to people on the prairie in South Dakota?
What`s important? What is the lynchpin to this election as you see it?

WEILAND: People want their government back, Ed. They wanted to be on
their side again and right now, it`s on the side of big money, big special
interest and, you know, I don`t -- I came out against EB-5 because I don`t
think we should be selling citizenship and I don`t think we should be
selling the seats of the United States Senate.

SCHULTZ: Is that what happened with this beef processing plant that
citizenship was being sold?

WEILAND: I don`t think that sits well at all with South Dakotans,
absolutely. For half a million bucks, you get to cut to the head of the
immigration line and, you know, you`re one step closer to permanent
residency. And I don`t think South Dakotans like that. It just doesn`t
feel right, no one should be able to get to buy their way to the front of
the line. And that`s what`s wrong with government right now.

This is government, you know, on big money steroids and it`s being rejected
by the people of South Dakota.

SCHULTZ: Here is what Larry Pressler who is running as an independent,
former Senator from South Dakota for 18 years. He of course is another
choice. It`s a three-way race there in your State. Here is what Pressler
had to say about Rounds` involvement in the beef processing plant.


problem there, the new senator will be vetted in his first year. I`ve been
in the Senate for 18 years. I know how these things work. You`re not
really vetted until you get down to Washington.

These campaigns -- our press in South Dakota, they pay such low salaries
that they cannot be investigative journalists. And we don`t seem to have
the ability but next year, it will be investigated and then we`ll know what
questions to ask.


SCHULTZ: Rick, what`s your response to that?

WEILAND: Well, Senator Pressler raised a good point at that debate and I
do believe that there is a full blown media investigation underway right
now. I don`t know that we`ll ever get an official answer from the
committee that was established for the legislature between now and the end
of this election cycle or for that matter from the U.S. attorney`s office.

But frankly, you know Ed, I have to go back to what I think this campaign
is more about, and that is big money politics and, you know, buying
citizenship. I think they interconnect here. And when you talk about
what`s happened to our country in the last 20, 30 years in how big money is
calling the shots in Washington. I think primarily, that`s why I`m going
to win.

SHULTZ: Well, with this EB-5 program, which was the crown jewel of Rounds`
economic development project in South Dakota, why isn`t there a criminal
investigation if there`s millions and dollars that are missing?

WEILAND: Well, there may end up being one. I said just the other day, you
know, when you`re a governor of the State of South Dakota you get to take
credit for all the things that go right on your watch but you also have to
take responsibility for the things that don`t go so well. That
unfortunately has not happen in this case. The South Dakota press knows

Eight papers have come out, demanding more information, wanting to know
what people knew and when they knew it. And I think this thing will
unfold. Unfortunately, we`re getting down to the last three weeks in this
campaign. It all may come out like Senator Pressler said at the end of the

SCHULTZ: Senator Tom Harkin from Iowa is going to be on South Dakota turf
on your behalf in Sioux Falls, is that going to help?

WEILAND: Yeah. I`m excited about having Tom Harkin out here. I`ve known
him for years. He`s the guy that`s out there still pushing for an increase
in the minimum wage, expanding social security, all those things that I`ve
been talking about in my campaign. And I`m excited to have him out here on
my behalf. He`s right next door, you know.

He`s good people.

SCHULTZ: Rick Weiland, good to have you with us tonight on the Ed Show.
Appreciate your time.

Let me bring in David Montgomery. He`s a political reporter for the Sioux
Falls Argus Leader, one of the largest newspapers in South Dakota. David,
good to have you with us tonight.

Why isn`t there a criminal investigation if there`s so much money missing
surrounding this EB-5 Program?

criminal investigations, Ed and then thanks for having me on.


MONTGOMERY: There was a state criminal investigation that happened from --
it was launched about April of last year and concluded in November. That
criminal investigation was on the verge of filing felony charges against a
former State Cabinet Secretary under Governor Rounds, Richard Benda,
accusing him of misappropriating $550,000 in a stake grant that went to an
EB-500 project, the Northern Beef Plant.

And that investigation concluded the -- after Benda dies by suicide on
October. And the Attorney General Marty Jackley had said that he didn`t
find any evidence to bring charges against anybody else and then, make a
mistake in the court of law.


MONTGOMERY: There also is a...

SCHULTZ: So, the suicide...

MONTGOMERY: ... federal investigation.

SCHULTZ: Excuse me. Go ahead. I didn`t mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.

MONTGOMERY: OK. There is -- was a federal investigation. That`s how
state officials found out about this when they received the subpoena from a
federal Grand Jury back in April of last year. That federal investigation,
we haven`t heard much from them since about last November.

It`s possible that they`ve concluded and didn`t find any evidence to bring
charges. It`s possible that they concluded and are waiting until after the
election to bring charges. And it`s possible that this is still ongoing
and it`s just one of those investigations that takes years, we -- the
federal officials have refused the comment. So we really have no idea


MONTGOMERY: ... what`s going on with that federal investigation.

SCHULTZ: OK. But since that suicide took place, everything kind of fell
by the waste side as far as the investigation is concerned. That...

MONTGOMERY: As far as we`re aware.


MONTGOMERY: I`m telling that the state investigation is closed. The
Attorney General have said that if anybody has information of wrongdoing,
he might reopen it but as far as he`s aware -- he`s not aware of any proof
that he can bring to bring charges.

SCHULTZ: From your reporting, how deep was the Rounds administration into

MONTGOMERY: Well, the Rounds administration definitely championed the EB-
5, immigrant investor program as an economic development tool for South

SCHULTZ: And it never worked, did it?

MONTGOMERY: ... Ed, it wasn`t there -- There`re actually number of
projects in South Dakota that were successfully funded by EB-5 and they`re
still going today. There`re also several high profile failures. There
have been slaughter houses, a casino, a power plants that all received EB-5
money and are still operating apparently successfully.

There`s also the beef plant which of course went bankrupt and several dairy
-- dairies is funded by EB-5 also went bankrupt.

SCHULTZ: The city of Aberdeen, the sense that I got there was that they
feel like they really got shafted on this deal. Did you sense that in your
reporting or get anybody on the record to say that?

MONTGOMERY: And the people Aberdeen were promised a lot from this.
There`s going to be a ton of jobs over the beef plant, there`s going to be
big infusion of cash into the area. They`re going to try to make Aberdeen
sort of a new center in the cattle industry. And, so far none of that has

The local governments passed some tax district, some incentives to help get
this built. There are more public expenditures and so far that they have
nothing to show for it.

The Northern Beef Plant was sold at a bankruptcy auction and its new owners
are apparently trying to restart it and think they can make it work. So
we`ll see if they`re right or not or if that optimism is misplaced.

SCHULTZ: And where did all that money go? That these foreign investors
put in to the tune of a half a million dollars to get a green card?

MONTGOMERY: The Northern Beef Plant which is the one that sort of have
been in the focused of all of this, took in about $100 million in EB-5
investment which is a lot of money for a building that size. And no one`s
really quite sure where all that went because I mean...


MONTGOMERY: ... you look at the building and it`s a nice building but it
probably shouldn`t have cost $115 million.

SCHULTZ: Well, there`s money -- is it fair to come to the conclusion that
there`s money missing, money unaccounted for when you have employees saying
that they worked in this plant and they didn`t get paid and the city is out
-- and the city is...

MONTGOMERY: I think it`s...

SCHULTZ: ... millions of dollars?

MONTGOMERY: You can certainly speculate there maybe money missing. I
don`t think there`s evidence to suggest that yet. One of the arguments
that I`ve heard is that the plant was poorly built and there are a lot of
bad decisions made and that they keep coming back in and fixing stuff. But
that`s again, that`s the suggestion that`s -- there`s no real evidence for

There`s just a lot of unanswered questions about how exactly this plant
just kept...


MONTGOMERY: ... eating more and more money.

SCHULTZ: And it would seem to me that people in the know should know
exactly what happened if anybody is doing any due diligence or doing any
kind of pro-forma to do a project worth hundreds of millions of dollars on
the prairie. Very interesting.

David Montgomery, the Sioux Falls Argus Leader, I appreciate your time
tonight. Thank you.

Remember to answer your -- leave us your thoughts at the bottom of the
page, also like us on Ed Show and on Facebook. We appreciate that.

Coming up, union busting Governor Scott Walker has a horrible night of
debating. His bad performance could cause him his job. Katrina Vanden
Heuvel and Ruth Conniff break it down when we come back.

But first, a Texas nurse has tested positive for Ebola, health
professionals are not prepared for an outbreak. The leader of the National
Nurses United and a vaccine developed by doctor, join me.

Stay with us, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. I have some major updates on Ebola
right here on the United States. A Texas nurse who treated Thomas Duncan
in the Dallas hospital is tested positive for Ebola. It`s the first case
of Ebola transmission within the United States. The diagnosis was
confirmed on Sunday by the CDC.

The CDC said that an unknown breach in protocol led to the nurse`s
infection. The nurse could have been exposed while taking off her
protective suit. Earlier today, the CDC said that they will double their
outreach and training efforts.


We have to rethink the way we address Ebola infection control because even
a single infection is unacceptable. We`re not just doing an investigation.
We`re immediately addressing anything that could potentially make it safer
and easier to care for people who have or may have Ebola. Each time, we
identify a process or training or equipment, or protocol that can be
improved there. And we are improving it right there on the site.


SCHULTZ: The CDC already has training and guidelines in place. They put
out new educational material just last week on how to protect health care
professionals. But the message isn`t being delivered. A new survey from
the National Nurses United reveals many hospitals around the country are
not prepared to handle Ebola.

76 percent say their hospitals have not provided any policy regarding
admissions of Ebola patients. 85 percent of nurses say their hospital has
not provided education on Ebola with the ability to ask questions. And 37
percent say their hospital has insufficient protective gear.

On Sunday, the National Nurses United held a press conference in Oakland,
California. They are calling for full training of hospital personnel to
handle Ebola. They also want adequate protective gear and isolation units.
These hard working nurses are simply calling for the basics. There is no
reason hospitals around this country can`t train and prepare for this
deadly disease that wasn`t support to come here.

For more, let me bring in Jean Ross of the National Nurses United and also
Doctor Peter Hotez who was the Director of Texas Children Center for
Vaccine Development. Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Miss Ross, how concerned should we be that a nurse has tested positive for

concerned as the rest of us nurses are. It is impossible for us to protect
the public if we can`t expect to protect ourselves. So we have been
calling for optimal protection for us, not just the basics that should
cover it.

When we see people in the media treating Ebola patients no matter what
country, what hospital they`re in, they are wearing hazmat suits. If
that`s what we believe should be done, the standard should be set for

SCHULTZ: Are you saying that there`s hospitals in this country that do not
have full hazmat suits to deal with this? They just haven`t invested in

ROSS: Yeah. Well, there is a variety of responses, you know, this is part
of our problem. If you had like a national health care system where you
could coordinate and had some actual enforcement to what you`re dictates
were, for example, in Canada when they have the SARS epidemic that would be
one thing. But we have a very piecemeal fragmented system here in this
country that`s private.

You can`t necessarily tell people what to do. The CDC is urging hospitals
to put things in place but they`re free to choose what they want. So if
one hospital says yes, of course we will do have hazmat suits which some of
them are. And others say, no we`ve been told that a gown and gloves, one
pair of gloves is perfectly adequate with the mask, then that`s what
they`re going to do.

We`re calling for a universal standard of safety for all nurses and health
care workers.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Hotez, how could this infection have been prevented, your

DR. PETER HOTEZ, EBOLA EXPERT: Well, you have to remember that -- first of
all, thank you for having me on -- Ebola virus infection in its end-stages
is one of the most complicated diseases to treat.

Remember, as the patient progresses with the illness, the viral load, the
amount of virus in a patient`s body grows to enormous levels. This is how
-- this is why I write (ph) this virus is so evil, it can grow to billions
and billions of virus, particles that completely overtake the patient.

And so, there`s really very little of any margin of error in managing a
patient. Now, you`re throw it on to that the complication, now you`re
intubating this patient or you`re putting them in renal dialysis.

As Dr. Frieden stated yesterday, we don`t really have a lot of precedent
for what we do with a complex patient like this that you also have to
instrument. So this creates a very complex set of circumstances that we`re
-- we may still be in the learning curve of it.

SCHULTZ: Well, how concerned should we -- the general public be Doctor
when head of the CDC says that we have to rethink what we`re doing after
telling the American people last week that they had a control on it?

HOTEZ: Well I think, you know, when Ebola patient first presents to a
hospital emergency room or triage situation, I think, you know, we saw what
happened to Dallas, they ultimately did a very good job at identifying
contacts, isolating those contacts and as a result we`ve had no additional
Ebola cases from that one index case.

With managing a complex illness in an ICU setting, that maybe a different
matter and may require a level of intensive care support that may require
putting individuals in regional centers of excellence rather than any
community hospital to happen to be with.

SCHULTZ: But protecting the...

HOTEZ: So, this is something that is going to have to be looked at very

SCHULTZ: Doctor, what is your response to the nurses who were saying that
the health care providers are not being properly protected and they`re
calling for more precautions?

HOTEZ: Well I think, it was a couple of weeks ago, you asked me about the
nurses and I said, from my experience as a former pediatric house officer
back in the...


HOTEZ: ... to see narrow, one thing I learned about being a pediatrician
is you always listen to nurses. They are sources with enormous wisdom.

SCHULTZ: Well...

HOTEZ: So if a nurse is telling us that they`re not having adequate
training, I think that`s something we have to take very seriously and react

SCHULTZ: Jean, are your voices being heard? Are there communication
errors between the CDC and the hospitals?

ROSS: I don`t know if you would consider it errors. The CDC I think is
doing the best they can, you know, they`ve had their funding severely cut
too, just as we have with many other things that are important to nurses
and the public.

I would look at the kind of instruction where you have a discussion about
how many nurses for example it takes. If you are to duff and don garb
appropriately, and that requires facing another person doing the same
thing, then that`s what it takes. Now, you just doubled the number of
health care worker you need...


ROSS: ... in this case with nurses.

So that kind of thing have to be taken into account. The time that people
might flip up, there might be an error, is when people don`t have the time
to do what they need to do appropriately. And that`s what we need to

SCHULTZ: OK. Jean Ross and Dr. Peter Hotez, I appreciate your time
tonight. Thank you.

Coming up, the governor`s race is heating up in Wisconsin. The Rapid
Response Panel weighs in on that.

Plus, when in doubt, blame President Obama even for the Ebola virus.
Pretenders coming up.

I got your questions next on Ask Ed Live.

Stay with us. We`re right back on the Ed Show on MSNBC.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. I appreciate the questions.
Tonight, we only got time for one in our Ask Ed Live Segment and it is from
Faye. She says, "Why should I vote for a Democratic candidate when they
are distancing themselves from the President?" That`s a really good

First of all, you don`t want to vote for a Republican if you are a Democrat
just because of President Obama. I don`t understand the downside.

We got more jobs we got private sector growth going through the roof for
months on end. We got stock market going up, the automobile industry, it`s
been saved. The President has brought us health care.

Look if you want to run from that, what are you running for?

Stick around, Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap.

Stocks slide too late in the session on worries about the economy and the
travel slow down due to Ebola.

The Dow plunging 223 points, the S&P off 31, the NASDAQ falling by 60

Airlines stocks drop more than 5 percent across the board. American United
Jet fuel all lower. Cruise operators also are finishing down more than 4
percent. Meanwhile shares of Lakeland Industries which make protective
suits for doctors and health care workers jumped nearly 48 percent today.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show, radical governors in trouble. Just
over two weeks out and the governor`s race in Wisconsin is heating up.
Things aren`t looking real good for union busting Governor Scott Walker.
It wasn`t supposed to be this hard. The latest poll from CBS and the New
York Time shows Mary Burke up by one point.

After Friday night`s debate, that lead could even widen. It was a bad
showing for the Governor of Wisconsin. Walker is standing by his voter
I.D. law that makes it harder for people to vote.


GOV. SCOTT WALKER, (R) WISCONSIN: For us this is a common sense for forum
that protects the integrity of each and every voter. I was at a town hall
meeting yesterday in Appleton, where I took questions from the crowd and
one person asked me how many cases of fraud have there been in the State?
And I said, it doesn`t matter if there`s one, a hundred or a thousand and I
asked amongst us, who would be that one person who would like to have our
vote canceled out by a vote that was cast illegally.


SCHULTZ: Pretty slick answer. This guy wants to make it harder for
300,000 people to vote because one person might commit voter fraud and that
hadn`t been documented. Now, let Walker -- don`t let him fool you at all
folks. This bogus voter I.D. law is a scam so Republicans can stay in
power. It`s so bad the Supreme Court stopped the law from being
implemented. Meanwhile the topic of minimum wage also backfired on the

He managed to dodge the question twice.


KEITH EDWARDS, WQOW TV EAU CLAIRE: Governor Walker, I need you to answer,
do you believe a Wisconsin worker can live on a minimum wage? Do you
believe the State has an obligation to make sure workers are paid some sort
of minimum wage and so what that should be? I need your answer.

WALKER: Yeah, and I`m point is I believe the state should be focused on
helping people create jobs that are much greater than a minimum wage. You
know, I was paid the minimum wage when I worked at McDonald`s as a kid. I
used that to save up for money in college. I didn`t expect that that was
going to be my lifetime`s work. And so we`ve got to have opportunities for
young people whether it`s part time or seasonal work.


SCHULTZ: And here is the shocker. Walker also said there are plenty of
jobs in Wisconsin.


WALKER: There`s a website the state has called
Right now, this week there`s over 70,000 job openings on that. We don`t
have a jobs problem on the State. We have a work problem. We got to
connect the dots between people looking for a job or looking for a better
job and the skills they need to fill those jobs.


SCHULTZ: Well, I think Walker is insulting workers when he says Wisconsin
has a work problem. If there is a low voter turnout in Wisconsin folks, I
believe Dems in this country are in big trouble. Walker is the poster
child for the attack on workers in this country. Walker has gone after
voting rights. He says no to minimum wage.

He`s attacked worker`s rights and voices on the workplace. He has cut the
education funding to the tune of almost a billion dollars and he has said
no to Obamacare and the expansions of Medicaid.

Walker has failed to create the jobs that he promised that he would. And
if he wins, Wisconsin as I see it, will be in deep trouble. But he has the

Joining me tonight on our Rapid Response panel, Katrina Vanden Heuvel,
Editor of The Nation. And also, Editor of the Progressive Magazine tonight
with us, Ruth Conniff.

Katrina, you first, I think that Wisconsin is a microcosm of middle class
America which Walker, on record, has repeatedly attacked.

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, EDITOR .THE NATION: Wisconsin has the home place of
labor unions which this governor has relentlessly attacked. There are
national implications if this Governor wins. He is the Koch Brothers`
poster boy. The Republican Governor`s Association has vowed to pump in
some $20 million to keep him in office.

He is out of touch with the economic realities of Wisconsin`s families and
the Midwest families. You know, 60 percent of minimum wage earners in
Wisconsin are women and he is basically saying, "Hey, you don`t deserve a
raise." He`s also out of touch -- Wisconsin`s dead last in jobs.

This is a governor who came in promising to create jobs. His priorities
are all wrong and Ed, he is a poster boy for the extremism of Republican
governors across this country.

Good Wisconsinite will see through it but, you know, the voter suppression,
that`s what it is, voter suppression, these Republicans, governors and
others, go around the world and talk about democracy and letting people use
precious right to vote and then they come home and they suppress it as hard
and fast as they can because they know that minorities, single women, young
people aren`t in their camp.

SCHULTZ: Ruth Conniff, how is this going to play? You have a governor who
says that disenfranchising 300,000 people is worth it. I mean how else do
you read it?

how far our State has moved to the right when the Robert`s court has to
intervene to impose some rationality and stay collective, yeah. But that`s
where we are. And actually I think you see that again and again with Scott
Walker. In the debate, I think he was very smooth. And if you weren`t
listening to the content, you could think he has got this under control, he
makes sense and Mary Burke even pointed it out.

He makes it sounds so reasonable, hey, one person may have committed voter
fraud and in fact not a single person has been charged. Then I think we
need to do something about that. When doing something that
disenfranchising 300,000 voters and really throwing our election into chaos
as the Supreme Court noted.

He says the same thing on abortion rights. You know, he says, "Well, I
just want health and safety for women." And that`s where Mary Burke kind
of lost it because he has closed so many clean parenthood clinics, deprived
women of access to birth control and basic health care all over a state,
tens of thousands of women. It`s not about health and safety.

So he presents in this kind of moderate sounding gentle way and agenda that
as Katrina said is really the far right-wing agenda to make people have no
control, not be able to vote and to ramp through some really extreme right-
wing policies.

VANDEN HEUVEL: You know, Ruth is -- the progressive`s out there doing a
great job but I think it`s really important to continue to expose how too
much of our media mainstreams extremism. He is slick Scott, right? I
mean, you know, masterful but what he`s talking about is so out of sync
with what the Republican Party in Wisconsin was a decade ago.

Ruth knows this but, you know, Republican governors in Wisconsin have used
a statue. They have more power than some governors in other states to
increase the living wage. Tommy Thompson did so. So you`ve got a movement
among not just this governor but Corbett, Snyder in Michigan, Corbett in
Pennsylvania into a kind of La La land which is out of sync, out of touch
with what so many millions of American say they want, say they need because
Ed, I do think there is a populace moment in this country right now.

And you`re seeing it in the movements, the movements but it`s going to be
very tough to dislodge the money, the money cannot be discounted that is
being pumped in. The Governors` Association is fearful about the governors
losing some control. So you`re looking at a lot of money, pushing through,
coming through.

SCHULTZ: Ruth, how important is the issue of raising the minimum wage? I
mean, is this going to be motivator, I mean if there is low voter turnout
in Wisconsin, my Lord, what does it take to get people motivated?

CONNIFF: Well, I think we have a real chance in Wisconsin to see things
change and I think the reason for that is largely because the Supreme Court
has said, "No, you`re not going to prevent people from voting." You know,
coincidentally, people who are largely low income folks, people of color.
So I think there is a real chance to get out the vote in Wisconsin.

Elizabeth Warren was here. She`d had stand on a table because she was in
the room so (inaudible) at UWM that, you know, she couldn`t move.

So there is a lot of excitement. That folks that you talked to last week
who have pushed this minimum wage issue I think are really talking to
people, I mean great majority of people in this country as Katrina says are
in favor of increasing the minimum wage, having a living wage. And I think
there is, you know, real popular sentiment behind...


CONNIFF: ... moving out this Governor who really represents corporate
interest and really specifically as Mary Burke pointed out in the debate.

He has been rewording his campaign donors with legislation that`s harmful
to the great majority of people in Wisconsin.

It really is going to come down to get up and vote drive.

VANDEN HEUVEL: This Governor is also the poster child for the American
Legislative Exchange Council. If your viewers don`t know it, go look it

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Yeah.

VANDEN HEUVEL: It is corporate funded. It is working for lobbyists. It
is working for the big mega-folks donors, not for the citizens of Wisconsin
or citizens of other states with these governors are getting that same

SCHULTZ: Katrina Vanden Heuvel and Ruth Conniff, great to have both of you
with us tonight. Story to follow. No doubt.

Coming up, at Ed Show favorite reminds us of the real reason of the United
States is at war. Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next. Stay with us.
We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, conspiracy King Michael Savage.

The conservative commentator used the Ebola crisis in the United States to
do what? Promote his book.


MICHAEL SAVAGE, RADIO HOST: It`s going to get much worse, I`m warning you.
And I`m telling you again, you can do something about it. You can buy Stop
the Coming Civil War, that`s my new book. It`s out October 7th.


SCHULTZ: He must have known the Ebola crisis was going to be all over the
world. Since book sales didn`t seem to stop the Ebola epidemic, Savage did
what any good conservative talker would do, just attack the President.


SAVAGE: Ebola is where the rubber meets the road. We can see his
incompetence with Ebola. He could have stopped this. It`s getting out of

Bumper stickers up here Coal Land, I named the President Obola the other
day because my fear is that that will be his legacy. This is a nightmare,
but it shows us how incompetent the man really is.


SCHULTZ: Now, if you buy the book, can you get one of those bumper

The facts Savage thinks President Obama has been incompetent when dealing
with Ebola is downright absurd.

If Michael Savage thinks that making up silly bumper stickers will help
solve the Ebola crisis in the United States, he can keep on pretending.



SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: They`re winning and we`re not and the
Iraqis are not winning, the Peshmerga, the Kurds are not winning and
there`s a lot of aspects of this but there has to be a fundamental
reevaluation of what we`re doing.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. It`s easy for Republicans to
criticize President Obama`s fight against ISIS from the pivots on Sunday
Morning Talk Show. Senator John McCain does it every week. Maybe it`s
because they`re trying to forget just how we got here on the first place.

This weekend, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders offered up a reminder.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: It is very easy to criticize the
President, you know, but this is an enormously complicated issue.

We are here today because of the disastrous blunder of the Bush-Cheney era
which got us into this war in Iraq in the first place which then developed
a can of worms that we`re trying to deal with right now.


SCHULTZ: And joining us tonight, Senator Bernie Sanders, Independent from

Senator, good to have you with us and I know a lot of people appreciate you
speaking up so we don`t get amnesia and we figure out exactly where this
all started and where it came from. But Senator, what do we do now? If
Senator McCain is correct in ISIS is winning, does there have to be a
reevaluation in your opinion?

SANDERS: Well, it depends on what you mean by reevaluation. Here is the
issue to me. I believe from the bottom of my heart that there is no way
that the United States can or should lead this effort.

You have countries like Saudi Arabia sitting right, sharing the border with
Iraq which has the fourth largest defense budget in the world more than
U.K., more than France. They have 200,000 soldiers in their army.

Ed, where are these guys? They have a major air force. You have Turkey
sitting over there. If this becomes a war between the United States and
ISIS, the West and the East Christianity and Islam, it`s a losing
proposition. It is what ISIS wants.

This is, as I understand it, a war for the soul of Islam and if that is the
case, the Muslim countries in that area have got to stand up and they have
got to fight. They have got to provide the ground troops.

Should the United States, the U.K., France be supportive, provide weapons?
Yes, but should we be putting ground troops in there getting involved that
what I`ve see as a quagmire, perpetual warfare in the Middle East, I think
that that would be a disaster.

SCHULTZ: Senator, clearly there is no short schedule here whatsoever and
there`s no short manual what exactly is going to be needed to remedy this
whole situation. But if we gone as far as we can go as you see it as a
country, as far as the airstrikes, as far as the equipment, as far as the
training on the ground, is this it?

SANDERS: Well, I think we should be prepared to provide the weapons and
the training that those countries in the Middle East need in order to fight
ISIS which is a horrible and dangerous organization. But I am adamantly
opposed to us having combat troops in that area.

The other point that I would make Ed, which nobody is talking about is, you
know, if we get involved, we`re talking about tens and tens of billions of
dollars. We spent over $3 trillion on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Where is that money going to come from?

Our Republican colleagues are pretty clear. They`re not going to raise
taxes on the wealthy. You know how we`re going to pay for this war, by
cuts in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, education and nutrition.
That`s how this war is going to be paid for.

So the bottom line for me -- and this is a difficult situation, and Obama
is trying but the word has got to get out that those countries in the
region who are in fact are threatened daily by ISIS; Turkey, Saudi Arabia,
Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan, they have got to get into this fight.

We can supply the air attacks working with other countries but they`re
going to have to have the troops on the ground.

SCHULTZ: And Senator, aren`t we less than 60 days away from having that
budgetary discussion about possibly shutting down the government. Where is
this going to go before the New Year?

SANDERS: Now, that`s a good question. That is a very good question. And
I think as you know that at a time when we have massive wealth and
inequality in this country, where the wealthiest people are doing
phenomenally well while the middle class disappears, the time is now to ask
the wealthiest people and largest corporations to start paying their fair
share of taxes so we could rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and create
the jobs that we need and make sure the government services are not cut for
those who need them.

SCHULTZ: All right. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, good to have you
with us tonight, sir. I appreciate it so much.

Tomorrow night on this broadcast, we will have more from the Midwest. I
was in Iowa last week. That race between Joni Ernst and Congressman Bruce
Braley is more than interesting. And we`ll have a report on that tomorrow

And some economic development news that`s unfolding in all over the country
after Maytag left. Where is the opportunity in Newton, Iowa?

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.

Good evening Rev.


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