Date: October 23, 2014
Guest: Vassy Kapelos, Thomas Sanderson, Chrystia Freeland, Robert Costa,
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Too close for comfort.
And this is HARDBALL.
Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington.
We`ve got fresh video tonight of yesterday`s terrorist attack on the
Canadian parliament, but first we take you to New York City for a report on
what may be a new case of Ebola here in the United States.
NBC`s Katy Tur is outside Bellevue Hospital. Katy, what can you tell
us about this patient?
KATY TUR, NBC CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you that New York City is
treating this very seriously right now. It`s not confirmed that he does
have Ebola, but they`re treating it as if he does because of where he`s
been and who he`s been in contact with. Right now, he is being tested.
They should know in the next 6 to 12 hours.
And city sources tell us that the patient is a 33-year-old man, an ER
doctor from Columbia Presbyterian, who just got back from West Africa. He
was treating Ebola patients in West Africa along with Doctors Without
Borders. His name is Dr. Craig Spencer.
Now, he got back about 10 days ago, started feeling symptoms today.
He felt fever, fatigue, also some body aches. He called the health
department and told them that he had a 103-degree fever. They called 911,
determined that they needed to send a hazmat crew to get him and take him
in an ambulance here to Bellevue Hospital. He is treated right now and
he`s being tested right now.
The health department is also going to see everybody that he`s been in
contact with. They`ve also quarantined his girlfriend, according to our
city sources. He was not self-quarantined up until now. He`s been back
here for about 10 days, but he didn`t start to feel the symptoms until
earlier today, and that`s when he started to self-quarantine.
Last night, he took a cab from Harlem down to Brooklyn to go to a
bowling alley, and we are told that he did have some sort of physical
contact with his girlfriend this morning.
Again, though, we don`t know that he does have Ebola. It could be
malaria. It could be salmonella. It could also be the stomach flu. Those
test results should come back, Chris, later tonight or tomorrow morning.
But regardless, since he has been in contact with Ebola victims, this city
is taking it very seriously.
MATTHEWS: As they should. Thank you so much, Katy Tur in New York.
Now to our big story tonight. Like everyone else in this country, I
want to know who that guy was who attacked the Canadian parliament
yesterday. There`s a picture. What drove him to terrorism, and what does
it tell us about the threats coming our way?
We`ve got new video tonight, as I said, of yesterday`s attack. Here
it is. It shows the gunman, Michael Zehaf-Bidoo -- or Bibeau just moments
after shooting a soldier at the country`s war memorial. The video shows
him getting out of his car at the entrance to the parliament grounds. You
could see him actually racing away as the terrorist runs there with his gun
in his hands. He`s heading toward the parliament building himself.
You can see him then running to a parked car, which he then hijacks --
we`re watching that -- and drives toward the parliament building. There he
is. Finally, we see him pull up to the building, leave the car and run
inside, all the while being chased by police officers. He will exchange
fire inside with officers guarding the entrance to the building.
Now, we`re also getting new information about the shooter himself.
Who is this guy? Well, his father is from -- Libyan descent, from Libya.
He himself was a convert, the shooter, to Islam. He has a long criminal
record, including assault, robbery, drug and weapons offenses. He`s been
staying in a homeless shelter in Ottawa.
Most important, he had applied for a passport in order to travel to
Syria. Police also revealed that his e-mail had been found on the hard
drive of someone who had been charged himself with a terrorist offense.
So here tonight, I want to learn, as I said, if I can and we can, what
this act of violence so close to our border will do to the American nervous
system, how it will affect -- and here`s an important point -- voters as
they head to the polls in about a week.
Right now, we`re joined by Vassy Kapelos, a correspondent for Global
National up in Canada. Vassy, give us the police information, everything
we need to know about who this guy was, what drove him, how he got to this
point to make history in the worst kind of way.
VASSY KAPELOS, GLOBAL NATIONAL: Hey, Chris. Yes, I spent the day
digging into just what exactly Michael Bibeau was made of. We know he was
32 years old. He was born and raised here in Canada. He`s a guy who kind
of lived life on the margins. We know he`s lived in several shelters
throughout the country. He hadn`t talked to his parents in five years
before last week, when he met his mother for lunch. That`s when we assume
he told his mom he was planning on traveling to Syria.
He came to Ottawa. He was staying, as you mentioned, in a homeless
shelter here. He was here to apply for that passport. He had applied, and
he was in the period sort of waiting to see if it would be accepted. We
know he tried to rent a car. They asked him if he had a passport. He was
very frustrated, according to people that were in the room, when he did not
have one. And police say that that lack of a passport was sort of a real
motivating factor, though his entire motive is not really clear at this
MATTHEWS: You know, I`ll play cop here. I`d like to know how did he
have the money to even think he could afford a plane ride over to Syria?
He sounded like he`s broke.
KAPELOS: Yes, that`s a great -- yes, no. And you know what? All
indications are that he was, to an extent. He took a bus from out west
here to Ottawa. That`s what I`m told. But you know, he was able to get
some money. And that`s the big question because was he in contact with
people, you know, in some kind of network, the police obviously saying he
was at least associating with one other known radical. Were they supplying
him with money? Was a larger organization supplying him with money? It
really goes to that question, you know, is he a lone wolf, or is he
operating under a bigger umbrella organization?
MATTHEWS: What are we getting from his mother? She seems like a --
just a victim of this as much as anyone else. What are we getting from her
-- and a very-close to home victim. What do you have a sense here that she
knew about his intentions in going to Syria? Was it clear to her he was
going to join up with ISIS?
KAPELOS: That`s a great question. We`re not sure whether or not it
was clear that he was going there to join ISIS, or that she knew that.
It`s interesting. Earlier today, she released this statement and it was
sort of, you know, I`m shocked, I`m mad at my son, I completely sympathize
with the victims. It seemed very much like she had no idea.
But then later today, police revealed that she was the one who said --
who gave out the information that he intended to go to Syria. So we don`t
know at this point whether she asked questions. You know, we went to her
house here in Ottawa. She actually works for the federal government here.
She wasn`t around. We don`t have the answers at this point, but you can
bet we`re going to be trying to get them.
MATTHEWS: Vassy Kapelos, thanks so much for that report from Ottawa.
Joining me right now is NBC News terrorism analyst Evan Kohlmann and
Thomas Sanderson of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Evan, give me your sense of this thing because I want to know how it
fits into a pattern because think this is something we`re going to have to
live with for a while, these lone wolves, these people with somewhat
elusive connections to a larger network but basically are self-recruited.
What do we know about him and how`s it fit into that pattern, if it
EVAN KOHLMANN, NBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, look, it`s important to
make the point here that the connections between this individual that have
been publicized so far, between him and other jihadists -- they`re not
direct connections. It would be that someone happened to have him on their
profile. They might have passed a message back and forth. It wasn`t a
As far as anyone can tell, so far from the public evidence, this guy
was not tied in with anybody, no group, no other individuals. There`s just
not any evidence so far of that. Whether or not this individual was
recruited by ISIS -- it doesn`t appear so. It doesn`t even appear whether
or not they were aware that this was going to happen.
So what kind of a person are we looking at? We`re looking at a lone
wolf. But are we looking at someone who was capable, who was actually a
meaningful threat beyond this incident, or are we looking at someone like
the guy down in Oklahoma City who beheaded his co-worker the other day,
supposedly or maybe because of the fact that he was inspired by what he saw
on television from ISIS?
MATTHEWS: Well, Evan, two questions. One is how did he afford a trip
to Syria, if he`s on the lam -- I mean, if he`s laying around in homeless
shelters without any money? I know he had a bus ticket, but where do you
get the money to go to Syria and even to apply for a passport? That takes
And secondly, what about his name appearing on that hard drive,
someone else involved with terrorism? How did that happen if he`s a lone
KOHLMANN: Yeah, well, we can only speculate as to where he...
MATTHEWS: I`m not speculating! We know...
KOHLMANN: No, no. I`m talking about...
MATTHEWS: ... that his name showed up on the hard drive. How did
KOHLMANN: His name actually didn`t show up on the hard drive. What
it was, was that these guys had shared profiles on the net. They were
following each other, basically. And they might have made a comment like,
Allah-u Akbar, or, That`s great, and the other person said, yes, that`s
But the conversations weren`t meaningful. They weren`t about a
conspiracy, or at least as far as we know so far, they weren`t about some
kind of organized conspiracy. They were more like two extremists who
happened to have a vague recollection or acknowledgement of each other on
the Internet, but it doesn`t appear to be something that meaningful.
Now, as for the other questions -- look, as to where he would have
gotten the money to travel, that`s where we can only speculate. But let`s
put it this way. Number one, he did meet with his mother. Perhaps he was
asking his mother for money. We don`t really know.
Other jihadists who have been in Canada before who have been penniless
have been able to raise money to travel as far as away as to Afghanistan.
So unfortunately, this individual, even penniless, he might have been able
to find the money for a ticket. There are people in Canada and here in the
United States that would be willing to fund such a trip, if they knew what
it was for.
The question is, did he ever come into contact with anyone, or was
this really an act of desperation? Did he not think he was going to get
his passport? Did he not think he was going to make it to Syria and this
is what he decided to do instead? We don`t know. We don`t know if this is
simply a case of mental illness.
But it`s fair to point out he wanted to go to Syria. His case fits in
very closely with a number of other cases we`ve seen recently. And whether
it`s mental illness or whether it`s a jihadi inclination, whatever it is,
there definitely appears to be some connection here to what`s going on in
the Levant with ISIS.
MATTHEWS: Yes. Let me go -- let me go to Thomas here, Thomas
Sanderson. It seems to me that one thing we do know, this man decided to
basically commit suicide. I mean, this kind of act, shooting a soldier at
the war memorial in plain daylight and then grabbing a car, then --
hijacking it, and then racing into the parliament building with a gun,
you`re going to get shot.
THOMAS SANDERSON, TRANSNATIONAL THREATS PROJECT: Yes. There`s only
one result that`s going to come of it.
SANDERSON: And look at his life. He appears to be on the margins,
and now he has a mission, right? So -- and that mission may be in
furtherance of ISIS goals or in his own belief of what it means to defend
the umma, the worldwide Muslim community from the advances by...
SANDERSON: Well, if he`s trolling around the Internet, contacting
this other person involved with terrorism, to some extent, and he also must
be aware of this thing a couple of years ago, when somebody said, I`m going
to behead, you know, the Canadian prime minister in the parliament
I mean, how much of this chatter, as they call it, mixes with each
other and creates this ignition that leads this guy to take this step
SANDERSON: Oh, I think there`s plenty...
MATTHEWS: After what happened Monday, of course, in -- near Montreal?
SANDERSON: Yes, with the soldiers who were...
MATTHEWS: Run down.
SANDERSON: ... run over. Exactly. One of them died. You know,
there`s plenty of chatter out there, plenty of material that these guys can
grasp ahold of, again, from their lives of marginalization, where they feel
a sense of empowerment and a sense of mission, very easy for an individual,
from what we know about this gentleman, could have jumped to this point
where he was.
MATTHEWS: Do we have Chrystia Freeland? Is Chrystia available right
now? Chrystia, I want to talk to you -- or have you talk. Take a couple
minutes. Talk about what seems to be the strong emotional and patriotic
feeling coming out of Canada today, much like it did out of our country,
the U.S., after 9/11.
CHRYSTIA FREELAND, MEMBER OF CANADIAN PARLIAMENT: Well, thank you,
Chris. And you know, Chris, it`s not polite to praise yourself, so I`m
going to start with a blog on "New York" magazine, the "New York" magazine
Web site, that talked about the mature and dignified reaction in Canada.
And I have to say, I really feel that`s been the case, and I`m really proud
of my country.
I was in parliament today at 10:00 o`clock. We were all in our seats.
And that was in a place where the day before, we were huddling in our
offices. And the real mood of the whole country is to say, We`re going to
keep calm. We`re going to carry on. We are going to mourn and remember
Corporal Nathan Cirillo, that brave young reservist who was shot, who
leaves behind a 6-year-old son.
We`re incredibly proud of our sergeant-at-arms, Kevin Vickers. He`s
the 58-year-old guy who wears the funny old England-style outfit and brings
in the mace every morning to begin our sessions in parliament. But you
know what? When he heard the shots, he was at his desk. He opened his
drawer. He took out a gun, and he shot the shooter. So we are really
determined to be responsible, to be mature, but not to let this change us.
MATTHEWS: Well, as you mentioned, the spotlight is also focused on
the sergeant-at-arms, Kevin Vickers, who`s being called a hero in your
country. By the way, congratulations on your election to the parliament.
And when the shooting started, Chrystia, he ran to his office and retrieved
his gun, as you say. Here`s the video, has emerged of him pacing the halls
after the shooting, gun in hand.
Today, dressed in his ceremonial attire, Vickers was greeted by an
extended three-minute standing ovation -- there it is -- by members of
parliament as he entered the chamber. Prime Minister Stephen Harper also
paid tribute to Vickers. He drew more cheers by shaking the sergeant-at-
arms hand. Harper also gave hugs to opposition leaders in parliament --
there he did -- he said the country stands united.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN HARPER, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: When faced with attacks on
the country we all love and the things we all stand for, I know we will
always stand together.
It is hard to appreciate, understand, fathom how we can have people
who so despise -- are involved in a movement who so want violence.
We will be vigilant, but we will not run scared. We will be prudent,
but we will not panic. And as for the business of government, well, here
we are in our seats in our chamber in the very heart of our democracy and
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Chrystia, I don`t know whether it`s an accident of
photography or camera angle, but there behind him over his right shoulder
was a gentleman with a turban and a long, full beard. I know that Canada,
having spent much time up there, is a country with much more of that kind
of British Commonwealth diversity all around, people coming from all South
Asia, all over the world.
Is that something -- when you say, "keep calm," do you mean to be
unlike the U.S. or -- I`m not being controversial, or meaning to be. But
what is it when you say there`s a Canadian way of dealing with things, as
opposed to, say, the reaction Americans have here in the U.S.?
FREELAND: I wasn`t saying anything bad about America, Chris. We love our
American friends and allies. But we are determined to be calm, to be
mature, not to overreact. You`re right, there was a gentleman in a turban.
And an interesting fact about Kevin Vickers, the sergeant-at-arms, is he
made a decision a few years ago that sikhs who come into the House of
Commons could carry their ceremonial knives.
He`s been as the sergeant-at-arms a person who has been a huge
defender of the openness of our parliament. He says it`s called the House
of Commons because commoners should be allowed to enter there. So I think
it`s pretty great that this guy, who has been this defender of openness, is
also able to take really strong action when it`s necessary. I`d like to
think he`s a model for how our country will respond.
MATTHEWS: Oh, Canada. Congratulations, Chrystia Freeland, for being
a member of the parliament and so proudly speaking of your country. And
thank you, Evan Kohlmann and Thomas Sanderson.
Anyway, coming up: 12 days before the midterm elections in this
country, the U.S., things are getting hot. Did you hear the latest from
Joni Ernst? She says she will use -- this is very un-Canadian. She says
she`s going to use her gun to protect herself if she believes this
government isn`t respecting her rights. This is 2nd Amendment talk right
out of the prayer book of Sharron Angle. Is she actually talking about
shooting politicians she doesn`t agree with? Apparently so.
And Rudy Giuliani settles an old score, a personal one, of course,
down in Florida. These races are so close right now, who knows what`s
going to tip the scale?
And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.
MATTHEWS: We`re talking about 2nd Amendment remedies. If they don`t
scare you, what will? Joni Ernst, the Republican running for the Senate
out in Iowa, is on tape, caught talking about shooting down people in the
government if she doesn`t like what they`re doing. You got it? It`s
amazing, radical talk. Wait until you hear this on HARDBALL, coming back
in a minute.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Twelve days to the midterms. Do
you believe it? The big campaigns have been at it actually for a year now.
The media markets have been saturated. If you watch television, the ads
are relentless. Yet this is the remarkable fact. Hardly a race in the
country, from New Hampshire to Kentucky to Georgia to Kansas to Florida --
they`re all no closer -- they`re closer now than they ever were. There`s
not one that`s above more than a point or two apart.
Take a look at Iowa, where the castrator, Joni Ernst, has a two-point
lead against Democrat Bruce Braley, where the margin of error there is
three, so they`re basically tied. But now comes word that Ernst pulled a
Sharron Angle two years ago. She`s talked about killing politicians she
doesn`t agree with.
Just how radical is that? Pretty radical. Plus, Rudy Giuliani
settles an old school down in Florida, the governor`s race, while the
Democrats doubled down on Alison Grimes. We got all this for you tonight.
Robert Costa, national political reporter with "The Washington Post",
and Howard Fineman is editorial director of The Huff Post, The Huffington
Post Media Group.
Today, as I said, The Huffington Post itself, The Huff Post, dug up
video of Republican Senate candidate Joni Ernst at an NRA event two years
ago talking about shooting members of her own government if she thinks
they`re up to hurting her rights. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONI ERNST (R), IOWA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I have a beautiful little
Smith & Wesson, .9-millimeter, and it goes with me virtually everywhere,
but I do believe in the right to carry.
And I believe in the right to defend myself and my family, whether
it`s from an intruder, or whether it`s from a government should they decide
that my rights are no longer important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: This is the same radical talk, Howard. I`m glad you got --
congratulations on the scoop.
HOWARD FINEMAN, NBC CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you. Thank
MATTHEWS: This has nothing to do Democrat vs. Republican. Do you
want somebody in the U.S. Senate that talks about carrying a gun around
with them to use against government officials or government leaders, all
the way to the top, I guess, who challenge her perception of her rights?
This is radical talk. It`s what cost Sharron Angle that race against
Harry Reid, talking about her Second Amendment rights. And anybody
listening out there who thinks there`s something confusing here, watch that
tape again. Listen to her. She`s not talking about a gun for sport or
self-protection against intruders. She`s talking about using it against
governors, government, I mean, government, revenuers, they used to call
them, anybody out to tax her she doesn`t like.
What does -- does she think this is something you can say and still
get elected to the government? She will be in the government.
FINEMAN: Well, Chris, one significant thing is that this video was
sent to us by a reader.
We have a standing request to all of our readers and commenters to
send in things that they know about the candidates, any interesting audio,
video, data, anything. This was sent in. Sam Levine, our great young
reporter, wrote it up.
And what`s interesting about this in Iowa, Chris -- and I know Iowa
very well, having spent tons of time there, they like their guns, they like
to hunt, they like the Second Amendment. But these are not crazy people in
And the talk, the sort of Cliven Bundy talk about a government
conspiracy to take away your rights, which at an NRA convention means to --
quote -- "take up the guns." The government somehow is secretly plotting
to take up the guns.
This feeds into the deepest part of the paranoid wing of the gun
rights advocates in the NRA. It`s not what most of the mainstream NRA is
about. It`s not what the NRA as an organization is about.
FINEMAN: But she was trying to tap into that emotion.
Bruce Braley is running against her, saying that Joni Ernst is --
quote -- "too extreme" to be in the Senate. I think this piece of video
plays right into that.
MATTHEWS: Well, how is this different, Robert, than Posse Comitatus
or any of the survivalists, the people that say it`s going to come down to
a showdown between me and the black helicopters? She says she`s got her
I know it`s a little gun.
ROBERT COSTA, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right.
MATTHEWS: But her principle is the same as Sharron Angle`s was a
couple years ago. By the way, let`s -- before you start, let`s watch
Sharron Angle to see the resonance.
As I mentioned, back in 2010, Republican Senate candidate out in
Sharron Angle Nevada talked about her Second Amendment remedies to take out
her then opponent, well, anybody in the government that gets in her way.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SHARRON ANGLE (R), FORMER NEVADA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: You know, our
founding fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good
And that was for the people, to protect themselves against a
tyrannical government. In fact, you know, Thomas Jefferson said it`s good
for our country to have a revolution every 20 years. I hope that`s not
where we`re going.
But if this -- this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are
really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies. They`re saying, my
goodness, what can we do to turn this country around? And I will tell you,
the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: We`re looking towards the Second Amendment -- Second
Amendment remedies to deal with this Congress. I don`t think there`s any
translation required here.
COSTA: You got to ask, how did this happen? How does Joni Ernst in a
competitive Senate race make these kind of comments?
MATTHEWS: Who cleaned her up so she looked less crazy than this?
COSTA: Well, her chief consultant is Todd Harris.
MATTHEWS: Somebody took all the -- somebody did something.
FINEMAN: Well, that was two years ago.
COSTA: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Let`s get back to...
FINEMAN: Well, that was two years ago. She said it two years ago.
MATTHEWS: No, I meant, Howard, how did she go from that radical to
this person who is just talking about castrating pigs?
COSTA: But, look, she was -- she has moderated her image since she
won the Republican primary.
MATTHEWS: How did he clean her up? How did Todd Harris clean her up?
COSTA: I`ll tell you how.
Well, two years ago, she was running in a Republican primary in Iowa.
I was out there covering that primary. These primary in Iowa, these red
states, they pull candidates like Ernst far to the right, and they have to
move all the way back center for the general.
MATTHEWS: And what did they do to her to change her?
COSTA: Well, look, they had a squealing pig ad in the primary. And
have you seen her general election ads? It`s straight to camera, her
sitting very ramrod straight, talking in a moderate way to voters.
MATTHEWS: How far out does this take her politically? You`re an
expert on Iowa.
MATTHEWS: You say they`re not -- they`re for gun rights, sportsman
rights, general Second Amendments, but they`re not Posse Comitatus.
They`re not the kind of people that go live out in Idaho and plan for the
ultimate standoff, you know?
FINEMAN: That`s right.
Iowa`s not the Idaho panhandle. I agree with you, Chris. And Robert
knows Iowa too, and I think he would agree with me that, yes, they`re
conservative out there, and, yes, there`s a conservative wing of the
Republican Party, but I don`t know that Joni Ernst, even when she was
playing to the right to lock in the Republican nomination needed to talk
about having her gun to use against the government if necessary.
You know, that was the kind of thing that was aiming at the emotional
gut of the deep right wing of the right wing. I don`t know that she had to
do it. She did it. Somebody who was there thought that it was relevant,
and that`s how we got ahold of it.
What it means in the campaign, I think it plays right into Bruce
Braley`s strategy. Now, he`s not ahead. He hasn`t won yet in part and
he`s behind in part because, as Robert says, Joni Ernst has, somewhat to
people`s surprise, performed well in the debates and come across as much
more moderate in the general election.
This -- if they make an ad out of this thing, it takes her back two
years, and we will see what happens in the last 12 days.
MATTHEWS: Well said.
Let`s go to Florida right now, where Rudy Giuliani has scored a
personal hit against Charlie Crist. Giuliani believes, rightly or wrongly,
that Crist double-crossed him back in 2008 for the Republican primary down
there. Crist was the Republican governor at the time. And Giuliani`s
thought they had his endorsement locked up.
Well, they didn`t. But just days before the primary, Crist endorsed
John McCain, who was the front-runner then. Now Giuliani is out to settle
the score. Here`s Giuliani campaigning yesterday for the Republican down
there against -- against Crist. Let`s watch him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: I have met people in
politics that are wonderful. I have met people in politics that are OK.
And I have met people in politics that I don`t like.
I have never met a person in politics that I disrespect more than
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: You know what? Sometimes, people show their teeth in
COSTA: Oh, yes.
MATTHEWS: And they say, I don`t forget, I remember you screwed me.
Now my chance -- you`re in a close race. Here I come. Maybe I can make --
can Rudy bring him down a notch or two and give this to Scott?
COSTA: The fascinating thing about the Florida gubernatorial, it`s
personal against Charlie Crist. It isn`t just about picking some kind of
MATTHEWS: Why do they hate him?
COSTA: Because McCain felt he was promised the endorsement from Crist
in `08. So did Romney. So did Giuliani.
MATTHEWS: But he got it. Well, McCain got it.
COSTA: Well, Crist played the whole field. He was promising and
nudging everyone in `08 that he was going to be on their side.
MATTHEWS: So, he was speaking with a forked tongue.
COSTA: He was. He`s been seen as duplicitous in Republican circles
ever since then. And that`s why in 2010, a lot of Republicans wanted to
burn him. That`s why they rallied around...
MATTHEWS: What do you think of this New York street corner behavior?
MATTHEWS: It reminds me of high school to me.
FINEMAN: Well, I think there are a lot of transplanted...
MATTHEWS: He stole my girlfriend, you know?
FINEMAN: There are a lot of transplanted New Yorkers down there.
I`m not sure how well Rudy travels out of New York, but a lot of New
Yorkers in Florida have brought New York with them.
FINEMAN: And it`s a close race. So I don`t think it -- I don`t think
it -- it certainly doesn`t help Crist in any way, and may hurt him a little
MATTHEWS: Yes. God, Rudy is something. You don`t want him for an
Anyway, thank you. What a memory.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, thank you, Robert Costa. Thank you, Howard
FINEMAN: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Howard, by the way, is out there in Penguin country.
MATTHEWS: Steelers, too.
Up next: a candidate for Congress whose campaign is actually going to
the dogs, going to help him, though. He`s going to the dogs for help.
We`re going to have next the politician and the puppy. That is coming up
next in the "Sideshow," where it definitely belongs.
And this is HARDBALL, the place for politics.
MATTHEWS: Back to HARDBALL and time now for the "Sideshow."
Anyway, Republican congressional candidate Martha McSally of Arizona
is up with a new campaign spot pushing back against what she calls her
opponent`s negative ads. Her secret weapon? An ominous narrator and a
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martha McSally hates Apple pie. McSally will
destroy Social Security.
MARTHA MCSALLY (R), ARIZONA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Hey there.
That`s totally wrong.
My commitment is to protect Social Security and Medicare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martha McSally wants to end student loans.
MCSALLY: Wrong again. This is why people are fed up with politics.
The lies keep growing, but the jobs don`t.
I`m Martha McSally, and I approve this message because it`s time for a
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McSally dislikes puppies.
MCSALLY: Watch it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Well, if that looked familiar, it`s because my friend former RNC chair
Michael Steele ran the exact same ad back in 2006, eight years ago, when he
was running for the Senate in Maryland. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Soon, your TV will be jammed
with negative ads from the Washington crowd, grainy pictures and spooky
music saying, Steele hates puppies, and worse.
For the record, I love puppies. I`m Michael Steele, and this is my
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: That`s why I voted for Michael, actually.
So, imitation really is the highest form of flattery.
Up next, Republican candidate Mike McFadden is running behind
incumbent Senator Al Franken out in Minnesota. He`s taking an
unconventional approach this week. He`s enlisted his own daughter to get
across the message that he`s not much of a campaigner. Here she goes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOLLY MCFADDEN, DAUGHTER OF MIKE MCFADDEN: I`m Molly McFadden. My
dad, Mike McFadden, is running for Senate. He really tries, but he`s not
very good at this political stuff.
MIKE MCFADDEN (R), MINNESOTA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Not good.
MOLLY MCFADDEN: Problem is, dad`s super honest. He works hard, and
he`d rather help people than attack them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Hmm. Call it a Hail Mary pass, but it`s a strategy you
don`t often see in politics.
Up next: Chris Christie makes fun of the minimum wage -- there`s a
smart move -- and says Republicans need to -- I love this one -- control
the mechanisms of voting. I get it, keep people`s wages down, then make it
harder for them to work -- actually to vote.
You`re watching HARDBALL, the place for politics.
MILISSA REHBERGER, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Milissa Rehberger.
Here`s what`s happening.
Dr. Craig Spencer, the New York patient in isolation with possible
symptoms of Ebola, has not seen any patients since returning from West
Africa. The CDC is assembling a team to travel to the state. Meanwhile, a
first case of Ebola has been confirmed in Mali. A 2-year-old from
neighboring Guinea tested positive for the virus earlier today.
And here in the U.S., three people are dead after a plane and
helicopter collided in midair over Frederick, Maryland.
And a tornado in Longview, Washington, damaged buildings and uprooted
trees. So far, no injuries have been reported -- back to HARDBALL.
MATTHEWS: What a night. We have got Ebola possibly breaking out in
New York and, of course, we have got this violence on our border up in
Back to HARDBALL and time for the roundtable.
"The Washington Post"`s Robert Costa rejoins us here, Michelle Bernard
of the Bernard Center for Women, and senior NBC News political reporter
Well, the pressure must be mounting on the GOP, because less than two
weeks from now, Election Day is coming. We`re starting to get a peek into
their soul and it reeks of elitism, at least one case. A GOP leader in
high demand to stump for Republican candidates this year, New Jersey
Governor and likely 2016 presidential candidate Chris Christie, waded into
the condescension this week.
First, Christie told the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that he`s tired of
hearing about the minimum wage, tired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I got to tell you the truth.
I`m tired of hearing about the minimum wage. I really am. I don`t think
there`s a mother or father sitting around a kitchen table in America
tonight who are saying, you know, honey, if our son or daughter could just
make a higher minimum wage, my God, all our dreams would be realized.
Is that what parents aspire to for their children? They aspire to a
greater, growing America where their children have the ability to make much
more money and have much greater success than they have had, and that`s not
about a higher minimum wage, everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, in that same speech, Christie also said Republicans -
- catch this -- need to win governor`s races this year -- guess why, guess
why -- so they can control the -- as he put it, the voting mechanisms in
2016, in other words, how people get to vote or not get to vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: What would you rather have, if
you were a Republican candidate and the nominee for president? Would you
rather have Rick Scott in Florida overseeing the voting mechanism, or
Charlie Crist? Would you rather have Scott Walker in Wisconsin overseeing
the voting mechanism, or would you rather have Mary Burke? Who would you
rather have in Ohio, John Kasich, or Ed Fitzgerald?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Do you like the way he sort of softened the tone for Mary
Burke? That had a right-wing smell to it. Screw the little people, those
who have humble goals of making more than 7 bucks an hour, and, by the way,
don`t let them vote.
Perry, how do you miss the message there?
PERRY BACON, NBC NEWS SR. POLITICAL REPORTER: But the next election
he`s running in is the Republican primary of 2016.
MATTHEWS: So, explain why this would work?
BACON: So, this would work because a lot of Republican activists do
not support the minimum wage. Increasing the minimum wage, they do not
support. They support voter ID laws. So, I think this actually -- this is
who Chris Christie is. He`s like very blunt, very direct, and he`s often
very conservative on issues.
MATTHEWS: Is this how he got elected governor? I thought he went
down the middle, Michelle? This isn`t moderate.
MICHELLE BERNARD, BERNARD CENTER FOR WOMEN: Look, I think -- look,
the speech he gave yesterday, I truly believe is completely bunk, and by
2016, he will be running away from it as fast as he possibly can.
There is something -- despite all of the gate problems and the bridge
problems that he has in New Jersey, there is something about Chris Christie
that is authentic and that people like. I don`t believe that he meant what
he said. He`ll run away from it.
In polling, right before the last election, he was polling at 30
percent in the African American community, and he got 15 to 20 percent of
the black vote in the last election.
Why on earth would any Republican run away from it? He`s the only
Republican right now that can get that many black people to vote for him?
MATTHEWS: He`s going after the hard right in Iowa, and the people
that, first of all, I think, he`s talking like Mitt Romney. This thing
MATTHEWS: This is why, because if you`re giving a speech to the young
CEOs of America, that`s a good speech. But if you`re giving it to regular
people, hoping to make a regular amount of money in their life and maybe a
little more, they go what are you talking about?
ROBERT COSTA, THE WASHINGTON POST: I`m surprised by Christie. I just
went to a football game with him in Camden, and he was there with a largely
African American community, and he was talking about poverty and he seems
try to moderate his message --
MATTHEWS: Was he mocking minimum wage?
COSTA: No, he wasn`t. He was doing the soft touch.
So, I`m just surprised. He seems to be soft, focused on poverty on
one hand. Then another day, he`s bashing the minimum wage. He doesn`t
have a coherent message yet.
BERNARD: Here`s the problem, it was a very -- I think it was
inarticulate, purposely so because of the audience he was speaking to.
There are a lot of parents, he told them to sit around and say -- who don`t
sit around and saying, I`m aspiring to my son or daughter to make the
minimum wage. What he forgot about is the part of the audience that
actually makes the minimum wage, and are trying to earn more money so they
can pay for their children.
MATTHEWS: You got a hand here, Michelle. Let me ask you this.
You`re trying to be nice to the guy, fine.
When you`re talking to an audience -- forget anybody -- everybody
knows from watching this show, or don`t watch knows this, too -- the
Republican strategy has been, the party`s largely a minority white party
that`s getting smaller. It`s a fact. And people of color tend to be
Democrats. So, it`s not racist. It`s just partisan meanness and
BERNARD: It`s just the way it is. Yes.
MATTHEWS: But when he says "control the mechanisms", what do you
BERNARD: When he says "control the mechanism", the very first thing I
think is that cannot be the only Republican in the country that gets black
people to vote for him because what he just said sounded like code for --
do not let black people vote.
BERNARD: That`s a huge problem.
MATTHEWS: So, I don`t get your message tonight. Is he really gaining
with black voters or not?
BERNARD: No, if he was polling at 30 percent with African American
voters, again, and he`s the only Republican in the country to do so, if
he`s going to be smart and he`s going to run for president in 2016, he`s
got to get away from what he said yesterday.
COSTA: Look at what he`s done on drug reform in his state. He`s done
a lot on prison sentencing.
So, I think it`s a complicated message. He has this hard message in
front of the chamber. But what he`s back in the state, he was with the
NAACP in New Jersey, giving a big speech about how you have to have a bail
reform and help people get -- get people out of prison.
BERNARD: Exactly. So, the bottom line is, he`s smart enough to know
in a general election doesn`t get him any black votes or Latino or anyone
who`s not white.
MATTHEWS: South Jersey and Philly are the same place, and this sense
of Mr. Tough Guy, a lot of it we like, because there`s so much
inauthenticity in politics, so much BS, and so much charming people into
voting for them. You know Clinton, a lot of these guys are good at it.
This guy is a different approach. He doesn`t charm you or patronize
you. He sort of challenges you and he goes, none of your business, leave
me alone on the personal stuff. We like a little bit of that, a little
tincture of that, but we don`t like the full load. We don`t like the Mr.
BACON: Only in Iowa. It shows that Christie has very high
unfavorable ratings already. Much higher than the other Republicans, much
higher than Mitt Romney.
You and I might -- I like a little feisty. I`m not sure people in
Iowa do. I`m not sure how well that style is going to wear at the national
MATTHEWS: I think I`m HARDBALL and that`s Sunday morning.
Anyway, roundtable`s coming back to talk about what`s going to turn
this election around the next day. What are the issues? Ebola? What are
the issues that are going to -- ISIS?
What happened in Canada? What`s maybe happening in New York City with
that new person maybe contracting the disease and showing it by tonight?
What`s going to move this election in a week and a half? We`ll be
right back with the panel.
MATTHEWS: We showed you earlier how close some of these key Senate
races are around the country, also a bunch of tight governor races. For
that, we check the HARDBALL scoreboard.
In Wisconsin, Governor Scott Walker has a one-point lead over
Democratic challenger Mary Burke. The new WPR poll has Walker 47, Burke at
In Illinois, a new "Chicago Tribune" poll shows Republican Bruce
Rauner leading incumbent Governor Pat Quinn, the Democrat, by two. It`s
Rauner 45, Quinn, 43.
Finally to Colorado, where a new Quinnipiac poll shows incumbent
Governor John Hickenlooper up just one over Republican challenger Bob
Beauprez. It`s Hickenlooper 46 -- 45, actually, his opponent, 44.
We`ll be right back.
MATTHEWS: Back with the roundtable.
U.S. Congressman Jack Kingston of Georgia just joined us. He`s a
Republican from Georgia.
And Michelle Bernard, of course, and Perry Bacon stay with us.
Congressman, we`ve only got five minutes here, but everybody who
watches this show is keen with what`s going to happen in a week and a half
now. I look at these undecideds, 10 percent to 12 percent to 14 percent of
these states, in these close races, the people say they`re undecided.
What more do they want, to know who to vote for?
REP. JACK KINGSTON (R), GEORGIA: I think they`re decided. I think
when some poll calls them, they`re just a little bit tentative and they`re
saying, I don`t know, they don`t recognize the group or whatever. I think
they know who they`re going to vote for, and I think that`s why modern
polling is so difficult. You combine that with the cell phone factor, not
become able to get to the right people, I do think all of these races are
just razor thin at the moment. But --
MATTHEWS: Is that bad news for the liberals? Because conservatives
tend to be more suspicious and somebody calling --
KINGSTON: I think it could be. I think it could be.
But I also think that, you know, right now, the party in the White
House is going to be at a disadvantage, just going in there. And I think
that`s probably what`s going to save the Republicans just going in.
MATTHEWS: That works the other way in the governor`s races where you
have incumbent governors like Corbett in Pennsylvania and certainly Scott
Walker, where they`re playing defense.
BACON: That`s what I was talking about. The incumbents I think are
You look at Kentucky, people not excited about Mitch McConnell, but
trying to figure Grimes is ready or not. In New Hampshire on the other
hand, Shaheen has, you know, been campaigning there for a long time there.
The people are still not sure here, they`re not excited. I think this was
driving -- people are undecided because they don`t love their incumbents.
They`re not sure what to do next.
This governor race is a little different because Rick Scott and Scott
Walker are both very polarizing. There`s actually almost no undecideds in
Wisconsin. People either him or they like him and that`s it.
MATTHEWS: Well, a big night, a big night for the Republicans if Scott
Brown wins, Scott Walker wins and Rick Scott --
BERNARD: Don`t you think there`s a possibility that undecided are
just not going to vote? I mean, I think there`s a large part of the
populace that just isn`t excited. I don`t want to upset you, but excited
about who they got to vote for. Democrats have done well in midterms and
they`ve also done poorly in midterms. I think this might be a referendum
on the president. What happens nationally over the next week and a half,
how the president handles it.
I mean, in Colorado, you`ve got people telling pollsters, that
although they voted for the president twice, they`re voting for a
Republican this time because they don`t like the president. That could
MATTHEWS: Yes, and "The Denver Post."
KINGSTON: Well, they do like that balance.
But, you know, on Perry`s point about the governors being polarizing,
that means their base is going to show up. And they`re -- they probably
already voted. And I think that is going to be a big difference.
I think the base voters will show up. And I think, particularly
speaking in Georgia and some of the other Southern states that Harry Reid
and Barack Obama are the issue. They may not have that enthusiasm or
passion for the challenger or the outsider or the Republican, but the
reality is they`re tired of Harry Reid.
MATTHEWS: Georgia`s a hard state. You`re an expert on Georgia having
I have a sense that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton -- Hillary
Clinton and Bill Clinton -- are now thinking of the Southern states they
can win next time. They`re spending time with Alison Grimes down in
Kentucky is they want to pluck that one back. Bill Clinton used to carry
that. He carried Arkansas. He wants that back. He was down there.
He wants Tennessee.
Does he want your state? Because e got it once. Bill Clinton got in
KINGSTON: And you may remember that James Carville, his consultant
was Zell Miller, the governor of Georgia`s consultant, as well.
So, Bill Clinton knows Georgia. But the reality is, Hillary is not
Bill Clinton. And I think that`s going to be a big difference.
BERNARD: Senator Clinton gave Barack Obama a run for his money the
last time around in states like Ohio and in Pennsylvania and those white,
working class voters that the president spoke about as clinging to their
guns and clinging to fear. They didn`t like him, but they liked Hillary
Clinton. I think that she could be --
MATTHEWS: I hate to tell you, but the prejudice was there long before
BERNARD: Yes, I know.
BACON: Demographics, Chris -- Georgia, black vote. Increasing
Hispanic voter. Georgia is the new swing state.
Kentucky, Arkansas, Hillary Clinton is not going to win those states.
BACON: But Georgia is moving. Nunn and Carter are both close there.
MATTHEWS: But you disagree with that?
KINGSTON: Well, no, I`ll tell you -- it`s machine voting in that
case. And I think the minority of messages, let`s get out and vote, Sunday
vote and all of that.
MATTHEWS: People are (INAUDIBLE) Democrat.
KINGSTON: But I want to mention in terms of those people who cling to
their guns, those are my folks. We will show up and we will vote against
Harry Reid. And Hillary, we do not believe to be Bill.
BERNARD: My folks are going to show up, too. So we`re going to see.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, Congressman Kingston, Michelle Bernard, thank you
for joining us. And my friend, Perry Bacon.
When we return, let me finish with how the terrorist threat of the
future may come down to the need to confront a single man with a gun. The
NRA is going to like this one.
You`re watching HARDBALL, the place for politics.
MATTHEWS: Let he finish tonight with this new world we inhabit. I
remember going to the movies in Israel back in the early `70s when I was
living over this for a while. And I remember the site of the Israeli
soldier sitting next to me and the Uzi she had lying on the chair next to
her. This is how the Israelis lived back then in the years just after the
Even after it was clear to the world that no Arab country, or all the
Arab countries together were not going to destroy Israel, that people still
had to live with the continuing threat of the terrorist attack, the often
suicidal act of violence meant to cripple national morale. Of course, it
did nothing of the kind.
And, again, yesterday, we saw the proud defiance of the Canadian
people -- the day after the terrorist`s killing of the Canadian at the
country`s war memorial. It`s much like that today as it was with the
Americans back after 9/11.
What`s changed now is the scale and wildness of the attacks.
Yesterday was one guy doing the work and getting killed for it. It was the
case of an individual, lone wolf getting himself triggered up to go out and
made good at his jihadist purpose. No grand scheme involving airplanes,
but one person doing evil all by himself.
But once again, we learned how much hell a single person can unleash
and realize that it may come down to is the readiness of individual public
service like that brave sergeant-at-arms up in Ottawa to do their best to
the great civic work of standing up as that guy did to the worst.
And that`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>