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All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, October 24th, 2014

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Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: October 24, 2014

Guest: Hakeem Jeffries, Lisa Baum, Mary Travis Bassett, Alex Rozier, Jim
McDermott


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, we are "All In."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . start shooting.

HAYES: A school shooting outside of Seattle leaves at least two dead
including the gunmen, with three others in critical condition. Tonight,
we`ll go live to Seattle for the very latest. Plus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re fully prepared to handle Ebola.

HAYES: How the biggest city in America spent months to prepare for this
moment. The first confirmed case of Ebola in New York City. We are live
tonight at Bellevue hospital. "ALL IN" starts right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes and I`m standing here
outside Bellevue hospital where Dr. Chris Spencer is receiving treatment
tonight from the specialized unit of people that have been training for
months for this very moment. That is the story tonight of New York City.
And it`s first Ebola case, the fourth to be diagnosed in the United States
or one that New York knew would eventually appear here. Today, Governor
Andrew Cuomo and Governor Chris Christie ordered a mandatory 21 day
quarantine of all medical workers and other arriving airline passengers who
have had contact with victims and patients of Ebola in West Africa. And
tonight, there`s reporting from numerous sources indicating that a woman
arrived at Newark Liberty International Airport from the West African
country and during the screen process she said she had, in fact, been in
contact with Ebola patients. This footage, you see there, may pertain to
that person. But NBC News has not yet confirmed that. The woman in
question did not show any symptoms of the disease, according to Governor
Christie, she is a U.S. citizen, but not a New Jersey resident. And she
will be quarantined under the new rules announced and implemented today
with the location to be determined.

Back here in New York, yesterday, what they have been preparing for,
happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, (D) NEW YORK: The months of training and preparation
that our city employees and our partners in the voluntary hospitals have
put into this effort has paid off. EMS drilled quite a while knowing the
day might come when they have to receive a patient with Ebola. The process
played out exactly as the protocol yesterday, literally to the tee. The
teams were drilled. They executed exactly correctly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Here`s how they have prepared. 9-1-1 operators were trained to
triage out people who might be high risk for Ebola. EMTs were trained, and
the specialized EMT unit created were instructed to wear hazmat suits to
cover the entire body when being dispatched to a high probability case.
Hospitals in New York City and New York State have been running intensive
training sessions in concert with the State Department of health, the city
department of health and the CDC. Bellevue has been designated and was
designated almost two months ago as the operational site for any Ebola
patients that would turn up in New York City. And nurses have also been
doing frontline training. The city even tested 11 New York City hospitals
by sending people who pretended to have Ebola-like symptoms, implausible
travel connections to catch any failures in following protocols. All of
this came together yesterday at 11:00 a.m. when Dr. Craig Spencer having
registered a fever of 100.3, nine days after departing Guinea where he had
been treating Ebola patients, called his employers, Doctors without
Borders, who then called the Health Department. Who then called 9-1-1. 9-
1-1 then dispatched that specialized EMT unit to Dr. Spencer`s apartment in
Harlem and he was taken by this ambulance and police escort straight to
Bellevue. Where he was put into a specially prepared isolation room. The
medical stuff in Bellevue that have been given - been trained to give Ebola
treatment attending to the patient. A fire department of New York special
hazardous materials crew then went to Dr. Spencer`s apartment and sealed
off the apartment. More than 24 hours later, Dr. Spencer is in stable
condition. His precise treatment confidential. He is talking on a cell
phone with friends and family. His fianc‚ and two friends are in
quarantine. Presently, importantly, not symptomatic. Medical detectives
have methodically corroborated Dr. Spencer`s travels around the city
matching his narrative to his cell phone, and credit card and metro card
records just in case he might have failed to mention something of note.
Officials stressing, however, that Dr. Spencer had not been registering a
fever and therefore was highly, highly unlikely to be contagious when he
traveled the New York`s highline on Tuesday or even when he went to the
Gutter bowling alley Wednesday night in Brooklyn, subway there and in
ubercar back home.

Mayor Bill de Blasio rode the subway today to help ease public fears. As
did Governor Andrew Cuomo. And joining me now is Dr. Mary Travis Bassett,
she is commissioner of the New York City Department of Health and Mental
Hygiene. Commissioner, thank you for being with me.

MARY TRAVIS BASSETT, NYC DEPT. OF HEALTH & MENTAL HYGIENE: Pleasure.

HAYES: So, I should say in full disclosure, my father works in the
Department of Health. So, we`ll get that out of the way.

So tell me what the latest is, and how things are going today 24 hours
after you sort of begun this process?

TRAVIS BASSETT: Well, you gave a really blow-by-blow account of how it
happened. And today, Dr. Spencer remains in stable condition. We have
confirmation of his Ebola test result by the CDC. Some of the restaurants
that he visited and the balling alley we went to - we went as part of our
medical detective work to just ensure that the story he told -- gee, it`s
pretty noisy out here.

HAYES: It`s New York City.

TRAVIS BASSETT: Yes, it is indeed. Just the story that he told was
confirmed by the managers of the .

HAYES: So, you are almost - It`s almost like even detectives tracing back
an alibi. Right, I mean - not because you have reason to suspect him, but
just because memory is .

TRAVIS BASSETT: No, we just want to be sure.

HAYES: Right. So you want to see if he was here and he was there for this
amount of time. And you want to make sure that he wasn`t, you know,
vomiting there .

TRAVIS BASSETT: That`s exactly right.

HAYES: . or something or something that would actually present some kind
of elevated risk that you didn`t have.

TRAVIS BASSETT: That`s exactly right. And we were - you know, he`s a
doctor. Well aware of the risks of Ebola. So he has been what we call a
very good informant.

HAYES: I have to ask you - this is obviously evolving situation, there`s
been a learning curve here. And we`ve seen it. I mean we saw the Texas
Presbyterian Hospital. We`ve seen it in terms of how New York has
responded. The newly-announced quarantine would have applied to Dr.
Spencer. Your views on that policy announcement today?

TRAVIS BASSETT: Well, you know, it just made late afternoon today. And as
you point out, as I understand because we don`t have anything in writing
yet.

HAYES: Right.

TRAVIS BASSETT: So, I`m looking forward to seeing the written document.
I`ve been assured by the state health department commissioner that I`ll
have a chance to look at it. But you`re right. It would have applied to
him as a doctor returning from having treated Ebola patients.

HAYES: And the protocol there would be some kind of - essentially kind of
a house arrest situation? I mean .

TRAVIS BASSETT: Quarantine is - that`s not a bad way of describing it.
And though of course, I`m looking forward to reviewing this. One of the
things that I`ll be interested in trying to assess is what impact it will
have on our public health response in Africa. As you know, there`s an
absolutely tragic epidemic there.

HAYES: This is a real issue. You`re someone -- I don`t know if people
know this about you. You spent a lot of time actually working on
infectious diseases in Africa, not in West Africa, in .

TRAVIS BASSETT: Southern Africa, I lived in Zimbabwe.

HAYES: In Zimbabwe and Harare, right, and you are working on HIV/AIDS
there.

TRAVIS BASSETT: Exactly.

HAYES: One of the things I think that is on the balancing sheet here and
people are thinking about it - they think about this doctor is, people
don`t love the idea of people coming back infected with Ebola and then
presenting symptoms. At the same time, you don`t want to do things to
disincentivize people who have the tremendous courage and grace to go treat
where it`s needed most, right? I mean that`s kind of the balancing act
here?

TRAVIS BASSETT: Yeah, that`s exactly right. So, people know as volunteer
(INAUDIBLE) for 30 days, and under this new rule, we have to look at what
impact it would have for them to go straight into quarantine for 21 days,
on the basis of having been treating patients with Ebola.

HAYES: I want to talk about what`s happening in that building where Dr.
Spencer is being treated. The record here in the U.S. is very good in
treating people with Ebola, with one exception, and that is, of course, the
index case, Thomas Duncan who died in Texas Presbyterian. A hospital that
has very high reviews, that is well regarded. And all the other patients
have been transferred to specialized centers. Nebraska. Emory, NIH.
There`s - This is a test case in some ways of a hospital that isn`t one of
those specialized hospitals treating an Ebola patient. And do you think
the resources are sufficient to do it?

TRAVIS BASSETT: Mayor just stated in the preamble, the Bellevue Hospital
has been getting ready for months now. And preparing to accept a patient
with Ebola. So, they have everything lined up. And, you`re right, people
in the United States have done much better than patients in Africa. We
know that people coming in for care early do better. And the care is
mostly really - what we call supportive care.

HAYES: That`s right.

TRAVIS BASSETT: That`s fluids, and so on. I`m confident in the doctors
here at Bellevue, but the patient and his team will decide how to manage
this care.

HAYES: I take a pause for one moment. We do have some breaking news. We
are able to confirm the woman taken - the woman from Newark was taken to
the university hospital. That woman, we do not know if that was her in the
ambulance, the footage of the ambulance we saw earlier that was being
greeted by people in hazmat suits. But we do know that the woman who`s
been directed under the New Jersey and New York state policy to mandatorily
quarantine those folks arriving in area airports who have had exposure to
Ebola patients. That woman was taken from New York to university hospital.
We can confirm that.

And what this points to is the fact that until the epidemic is brought
under control in West Africa, there will be occasional sporadic cases
particularly if you have these very courageous self-sacrificing medical
professionals who are going there to treat it.

TRAVIS BASSETT: Well, we really intend to keep health workers safe. And
the use of personal protective equipment is designed for that purpose. Of
course, people have to be trained in its use, they have to practice its
use. I`m sure you`ll be hearing this over and over again, practice,
practice, practice. But we have thousands of people with Ebola in West
Africa. And that`s really what we have to bring under control.

HAYES: When was the first time that you sat down or you and the mayor sat
down or you and the state health commissioner sat down and said we need a
plan here.

TRAVIS BASSETT: We need a plan. We started at the end of July.

HAYES: End of July.

TRAVIS BASSETT: End of July. We issued our first guidance on August 11.

HAYES: Wow.

(CROSSTALK)

HAYES: So end of July, that`s end of July. What was it? Was it just the
fact that we had medevaced a few Americans back here at that point? Was it
sort of just keeping your eyes out to see that the outbreak .

TRAVIS BASSETT: Yeah, well, this is New York City.

HAYES: Right.

TRAVIS BASSETT: And this is a global city.

HAYES: Eventually, it will land here, whatever it is.

TRAVIS BASSETT: And so - we have a really busy airport. It`s one of the
top 20 busiest airports in the world. People come here from everywhere.
We`ve always loved that about New York City. And it also means that we are
a global gateway, including for people who might arrive with Ebola. So we
thought we better get a plan in place. We got it in place. Yesterday, it
really worked perfectly. All of us worked together. We got the patient
into a safe place. We`ve tracked down all of his movements and people he`s
been in touch with and we`re feeling like it was a good day. He is in a
place where he can get good care and we have really shown our ability to
respond to a patient with Ebola in New York City.

HAYES: And then I also want you to talk a little bit - we talk about this
with Dr. Peter Hages (ph), which we are going to show later on the show.
We actually took the A-train together today. We talked about .

(LAUGHTER)

HAYES: But, you know, look. I think there is a sense in which people
don`t know infectious diseases and they don`t know communicability and they
know there`s germs, generally. You know, what is the message to New
Yorkers? I know the message to New Yorkers is Ebola is difficult to heard,
which we`ve heard.

TRAVIS BASSETT: Yes.

HAYES: That, you have to exchange .

TRAVIS BASSETT: Which is true.

HAYES: Which is true. You have to exchange bodily fluids, you have to be
around someone who`s very sick and at the end stage. But is the general
message just, look, it`s going to be - it`s fine and the system right now
is working. Is that sort of what .

TRAVIS BASSETT: That`s the general message. That we are - you know, that
we had a plan, we implemented the plan, it worked seamlessly and that we
are confident that Dr. Spencer entered care on the first day that he had a
fever.

HAYES: Right. Commissioner - of the New York City Department of Health
and Mental Hygiene. Great pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much
for coming out.

TRAVIS BASSETT: Thanks a lot.

HAYES: Good luck.

TRAVIS BASSETT: A lot of noise.

HAYES: Yeah, there is.

I should - we also have a statement out from the New Jersey Department of
Health on the case of the woman who has been sent into mandatory quarantine
pursuing to the new policy announced afternoon by the governors in New
Jersey and New York. The health care worker, Governor Chris Christie
indicated earlier today would be quarantined because of a recent history of
treating Ebola patients in West Africa, had no symptoms upon arrival at
Newark Liberty International Airport earlier today.

This evening, the health care worker developed a fever and is now in
isolation and being evaluated at university hospital in Newark. Again,
university hospital is the hospital, in which earlier we saw an ambulance
arrive and be handled by people in hazmat protective gear. We can now
confirm via New York State - New Jersey state health officials, that woman
has been quarantined and has developed a fever. So that is the latest we
know. Dr. Barrett - Bassett, thank you very much.

All right. Much more to come. But, first, the other big breaking news
story we`ve been following today. A school shooting in Washington State.
One student and the shooter are dead and four other seriously injured. The
latest details in a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Much more on the breaking news out of Newark/New Jersey tonight.
Just moments ago, we have just learned that this evening, the health care
worker we`ve been telling you about, that`s the health care worker who had
recently had contact with Ebola patients and was taken to university
hospital in New York pursuant to a new automatic quarantine policy has also
developed a fever. And is now in isolation and being evaluated at
University Hospital in New York. Newark. Now, there is some very good
news reports tonight about Ebola, about the first Dallas nurse who tested
positive with the virus, Nina Phamm. The details all of it ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: An absolutely heartbreaking day today in Marysville-Pilchuk High
School shot five other students with the 40 caliber pistol in the cafeteria
this morning, killing one female student and then himself. Three of the
students who were shot, two girls and a boy, sustained primary head wounds.
All three have gone into emergency surgery and remain in critical condition
at this hour. Another 14-year-old boy was shot in the jaw, he is now in
serious condition, but is expected to survive. The gunman has been
identified as Freshman Jaylin Fryburg, described by the students as a happy
and popular kid who was elected to the school`s homecoming court just a
week ago.

An eye witness to the shooting, a student named Austin Taylor described
what he saw in that cafeteria this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUSTIN TAYLOR, STUDENT: He was just sitting there, talking. All of the
sudden, I see him stand up, pull something out of his pocket and, at first,
I thought it was just someone making a really loud noise with, like, a bag,
like a big, loud pop until I heard four more after that. And I saw three
kids just fall from the table. Like they were falling to the ground dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Law enforcement has yet to indicate a possible motive for the
shooting. But multiple reports have suggested Jaylin Fryburg may have been
upset about an ex-girlfriend. The 15-year-old student told the "Seattle
Times" that Fryburg was angry at the girl who would not date him and that
the girl was one of the people shot. Students also said he believes one of
the victims was a friend of his since kindergarten. Joining me now from
the scene in Marysville is Alex Rozier, a reporter for the NBC affiliate,
and Seattle King 5 TV.

And Alex, just an awful scene. What is the latest there?

ALEX ROZIER, REPORTER KING 5 TV: Well, Chris, we`ve actually now moved to
harbor view medical center, or right outside the main medical center here
in the Seattle area where two of the patients are behind me. There are two
more at Washington. 30 miles to the north. Now, Marysville is about 40
miles to the north of Seattle. Two of them are there, we`ve got two behind
us. Behind us, we`ve got a 15-year-old who was brought here early this
afternoon with a very serious head injury. The first person who was
brought here was a 14-year-old with a jaw injury.

Again, six people involved in this. And it all happened at 10:39 this
morning, when Jaylin Fryburg, a freshman walks into this cafeteria and gets
into an argument over a girl, sources tell us, and opens fire. Six people.
He injures five before killing himself. So two people here, two people in
Everett following a very scary afternoon in Marysville. But it`s a high
school of about 2,000, Chris. And we just learned actually a little bit of
good news for this high school. They were going to play a big football
game this evening and the team that they were going to play against for the
league championship called them, they said you know what, you guys can take
first place, we`ll take second. Let`s not even worry about it. Let`s
focus on Marysville-Pilchuk tonight. And that`s what everybody here is
doing.

HAYES: One of the most chilling details I heard today was just that the
school actually had prepared and had a lockdown procedure in place and an
alarm in a way of responding to a school shooting system situation because
school shooting drills have become, essentially, common place throughout
the country and that those are put into place today.

ROZIER: And they sure were. But you know, it really is never real until
it is real. And we had a hard time believing that even in our news room
when we learned of this. You know going back a little bit earlier this
year, the Seattle Pacific shooting also happen in the Seattle area. And
now this. Six people entered in the Marysville-Pilchuk school shooting,
involving a kid that yes everyone describes as a very personable kid. A
kid who was crowned homecoming prince just a few weeks ago. So, it`s truly
devastating.

HAYES: Alex Rozier of King 5 in Seattle, thank you very much.

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Jim McDermott. He represents
district seven in Washington State, which includes most of Seattle.
Congressman, thank you for joining us, condolences, obviously. This is a
pretty awful scene to digest.

REP. JIM MCDERMOTT, (D) WASHINGTON: It sure is. It`s hard to understand
how this young man did this. He doesn`t fit any of the stereotypes that we
ordinarily think of.

HAYES: You know that`s what I think - One of the things that is strange
about the news over the past several months and as we sift through acts of
violence is attempting, essentially in the aftermath, to find meaning and
some sort of motive, and we`ve done that with the man who shot in the
Ottawa parliament and everyone has now been sifting through this young
man`s Facebook page and basically, finding what is, by all accounts, as
"normal high school freshman" as you could possibly find.

MCDERMOTT: It seems that way. I think what is sort of startling when you
look back on it, the number of school shootings we`ve had this year, very
often, the Congress will come in and will have a moment of silence. And it
seems like it`s this week it`s Connecticut, then the next week it`s
Washington state, another week it`s Oregon, and it is - in our society, we
really have an epidemic of gun violence in schools, and we have really not
been able to address that. I think it`s - it is - I was in the Congress in
`92 when we had an assault rifle ban put in because of an assault in
California. We haven`t done anything in the Congress since in terms of
trying at the congressional level to try and deal with this. Because the
NRA really runs the gun legislation in all legislatures, whether it`s the
national legislature or the state legislature. We can`t get gun
legislation through. The state of Washington has now got a gun initiative
on the ballot in a week, ten days from now, and it is to close one of the
loopholes by which people can buy handguns at gun -- at meetings where
people come together and say I`ve got a gun for sale, you want one? So
we`re going to close that loophole, I think, in the state of Washington
because the Congress has been able to do nothing.

HAYES: My understanding is there are actually two ballot initiatives, sort
of dueling battle initiatives, one to close the loophole you mentioned, one
which would actually expand access to guns and both of them will be on the
ballot in your state in ten days.

MCDERMOTT: Yes. The second one, which is 591, was put out by the NRA to
confuse people. They say oh, this doesn`t do -- this doesn`t change
anything. What it does is it says that everything that`s going to be done
has to be done on the basis of what`s done in Washington, D.C. Now, they
know that they can prevent any legislation from getting through the U.S.
Congress. We couldn`t get an extension on the assault weapon ban. It`s
perfectly legal to bring an assault weapon onto a school campus, according
to the national law. So they know they have control. And they came into
the state and they are running this initiative trying to derail 594, which
is the one that would say we`re going to close the loophole. So, I think
the voters are smart enough in the state of Washington, we`ll close the
loophole and tell the NRA to stay out of Seattle.

HAYES: Congressman Jim McDermott of Washington, thank you very much.

I should note we have no indication at this moment about how Jaylin Fryburg
actually acquired that .40 caliber weapon that he used. We do have some
Facebook photos that indicated he had owned other weapons or at least had
access to them. Facebook photos, which we have not been able to
independently verify that suggest he was going hunting on a regular basis
as a hobby. But we don`t know, as of this moment, whether that gun that he
used today in this gruesome, gruesome crime was acquired legally or not.

All right, we just learned some more details on the case of a health care
worker who has been quarantined in New Jersey and we`ll have more on the
Ebola case here in New York. Don`t go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Doctors without Borders has now put out a statement regarding the
health care worker just quarantined after arriving at Newark airport.

Quote, "We confirmed that the person quarantined is a return MSF, which is
the initials in French for Doctors Without Borders staff person. At this
stage, we have only seen media reports about new guidelines announced by
New York and New Jersey.

We are therefore not in a position at this stage to comment on the new
guidelines themselves. As all throughout the Ebola crisis in West Africa,
Doctors Without Borders has enacted strict protocols governing the return
of its health workers to their home countries. We act in full compliance
with official public health regulations.

Earlier this week, we adjusted our protocols for returned staff in
accordance with new U.S. federal guidelines. We have every intention of
complying with any new protocols.

Now of course, Dr. Greg Spencer, also worked for Doctors Without Borders.
And the talk of New York City today was whether or not Dr. Craig Spencer
should have taken the subway after he returned home from treating Ebola
patients in Guinea. On this show, we talked over and over again about just
how truly difficult it is to transmit Ebola.

But today, I revisited the topic with Dr. Peter Hotez, an infectious
disease specialist on one of the very subway lines that Spencer took.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HAYES: So we`re on the train right now. We were just discussing about
whether this doctor should have gotten on the train. And this woman says
it was completely irresponsible. I`ve heard that from a lot of people.
Like, what the hell was this guy thinking getting on the train? What do
you think about that?

PETER HOTEZ, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SPECIALIST: Well, I can understand why
people are upset and concern. The reality is it`s when you`re in the early
stages of this virus infection. It`s very difficult to transmit from
person-to-person.

If the doctor had influenza, then, yes, there`s a lot of risk. But this is
not a virus transmitted by the aerosol route unless you come in direct
contact with blood or other bodily fluids --

HAYES: So you don`t think it`s irresponsible?

HOTEZ: Well, I can`t answer it that way. You can argue that anyone comes
from an isolated country should isolate themselves for at least a week or
two after they arrived. But the risk of this individual infecting others
in the subway is essentially zero.

HAYES: We`re on a rush hour train. It`s packed. We`re close together.
Walk me through the microbiology between the flu, which I could get from
you and the microbiology of Ebola, which I can`t.

HOTEZ: So let`s talk about several different diseases. So one of them is
the common cold caused by a rhinovirus infection. You`ve got snotty nose
and you`re touching your secretions and you`re wiping your nose and shake
someone`s hand.

That will transmit the infection because then you`ll inoculate yourself by
putting it in your eyes or your mouth or it can alert fomites.

HAYES: That`s really grossing me out.

HOTEZ: It only can live for a short term and that`s why, you know, if you
do a lot of airline travel, you get colds.

HAYES: So fomites, which the common cold or the flu?

HOTEZ: Now, the flu, in addition to being transmitted by that, by the
route we just discussed, with the flu, what happens is if you cough and you
cough on an inert surface, you can pick up the virus that way or, if I
cough into your mouth and your nose or sneeze, you can get it.

HAYES: So that`s the way people think of transmission. And they know they
can get it --

HOTEZ: That`s only because it`s two infections people know about.
Infectious diseases are transmitted by all sorts of routes. They are
insects, mosquitos. They won`t transmit it by that route.

HAYES: Right. So you can`t get malaria by riding next to someone?

HOTEZ: That`s right. It requires a mosquito in this case.

HAYES: Because it is injected through the blood.

HOTEZ: That`s right. And that`s adapted to the mosquito so that`s why we
call them arbo viruses or arbo infection.

HAYES: So the common cold or the flu, I`m exposing myself right here. So
the difference with Ebola is what?

HOTEZ: The difference with Ebola is two-fold. One, it`s not transmitted
by the aerosolized route, as far as we know. That`s point one.

HAYES: So the coughing and the sneezing and the things I`m thinking about
are not spreading out?

HOTEZ: That`s right. The other key important point is if you`re well
enough to walk around, the virus in your body is extremely low.

HAYES: The virus -- I mean, what makes it so scary -- or so deadly is that
it`s a massively potent thing that expands exponentially in your blood and
takes over the host so powerfully that by the late stages, it`s got you in
a way where you not flocking around.

HOTEZ: It`s what I thought of the two faces of Ebola virus and the early
stages of infection. The virus is just replicating in your body in the
first week that you have it. First of all, you`re not having any symptoms.

And even when you first have symptoms, the amount of Ebola virus in your
body is extremely low. That`s why you don`t just get Ebola virus walking
around Monrovia and Liberia.

HAYES: For a perspective, how many people live in Liberia?

HOTEZ: In Liberia, a population of around 26 million people, ironically,
about the same size as the population of Texas.

HAYES: And we`ve got about 5,000 cases.

HOTEZ: We`re at almost 10,000 cases now, 5,000 deaths.

HAYES: So even in the place where it is -

HOTEZ: It`s still a relatively rare disease at this point. So one of the
numbers that I used, the three infected countries of Liberia, Sierra Leone,
and Guinea have roughly the same population as the state of Texas.

In Texas, every year, we have 1,000 to 2,000 people who die in drunk
driving accidents. Remember, who are those people getting infected? It`s
only people taking care of sick Ebola patients in the hospital.

Because what happens is -- right now, if you ask me what am I worried about
in New York? I`m not worried about anybody on the subway or any other
subway in New York.

I`m not worried anybody in any bowling alley in New York. What I`m worried
about are the nurses and health care professionals who are taking care of
Dr. Spencer in Bellevue hospital.

Because overtime he could progress to have lots and lots of virus and then
there is a possible transmission. Just like if you look at what happened
in Dallas, none of the outpatient contacts of Mr. Duncan, none of the
contacts --

HAYES: All right, Dr. Hotez, thanks a lot.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAYES: All right, during this time of high anxiety of Ebola, it is so
important that the president gave this woman a huge bear hug and I`ll tell
you why next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: Almost 24 hours after Dr. Craig Spencer became the first person to
test positive for Ebola in New York City, President Obama met with Ebola
survivor, Nina Pham, in the oval office itself and gave her a big old bear
hug.

This is after she walks out of a Maryland hospital today fully recovered.
Pham was actually the first person to ever contract Ebola in the U.S. She
was among the doctors and nurses who treated that first patient, Thomas
Eric Duncan, who was, of course, the first person to be diagnosed of Ebola
here in the U.S. Duncan died on October 8th.

Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, the House Oversight Committee held a hearing
today in which they question officials in the Obama administration about
the response to the crisis.

Some of that criticism was still focused on Ron Klain, the man Obama picked
to oversee the official response to Ebola, whose job it is to coordinate
and bring different parts of the government together.

At one point, while questioning Dr. Nicole Lorie, the assistant secretary
for Preparedness and Response, Representative Trey Gowdy couldn`t come to
grips with the fact that the president picked Klain instead of a medical
professional.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPRESENTATIVE TREY GOWDY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: We actually are about to
have a vacancy for our attorney general. And I want you to consider or be
mindful of whether other not he considers like a tattoo artist to be our
next attorney general. I promise he will not. So why pick a lawyer to
head our response to Ebola? Call me cynical, but it just appears to be
political.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: It bears noting there was a nominee of a doctor to be the surgeon
general. That was blocked in the Senate with overwhelming Republican
opposition because the surgeon general had to say that gun violence in
America is a public health issue.

I will speak with New York Representative Hakin Jeffries and asked him what
he thought about today`s hearing just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: The Meatball Shop, the restaurant that Dr. Spencer visited on
Tuesday has just issued a statement. It reads in part, "Last night, we
were notified by the New York City Health Department that the patient had
visited our restaurant.

The patient was asymptomatic at the time. The Health Department assured us
that his visit pose no health risk to our staff or customers. Out of an
abundance of caution, the restaurant voluntarily closed while it was
cleaned and sanitized."

Following a comprehensive inspection with a senior environmental health
inspector from the New York City Health Department, the restaurant reopened
this evening.

We here at ALL IN with the staff of "THE RACHEL MADDOW" show including
Rachel Maddow herself ordered dinner from the Meatball Shop tonight and
that everyone is doing fine. Also, the meatballs were delicious. We`ll be
right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA (R-CA), HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: We
have the head of CDC supposed to be the expert and he`s made statements
that simply aren`t true. Doctor, you can get Ebola sitting next to someone
on a bus if they, in fact, throw up on you, can`t you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: We`re here live outside Bellevue Hospital where, of course, Dr.
Craig Spencer is being treated for Ebola and what you saw there was
Congressman Issa in Capitol Hill today.

And know they regularly point out that they are quote, "not a scientist"
when asked about climate change. Republican lawmakers today had no problem
second guessing public health officials at a House hearing on the Ebola
crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you in charge of being prepared?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am in charge of being prepared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Then I think you need to turn your resignation in.
I can tell you it`s not working. All you`ve got to do is look at Craig
Spencer.

ISSA: The head of the CDC was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Might we be more ready if you hadn`t spent $39 million
of hard earned taxpayer money on puppet shows for pre-schoolers?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Republicans question the preparations taken by the administration
for an outbreak and their recommendations to health care workers and the
public. Many called for a full-out travel ban from areas impacted by
Ebola, an idea deemed counterproductive by health officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. NICOLE LURIE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PREPAREDNESS AND RESPONSE: If
you were to put a travel ban in effect, for example, you would have people
coming into this country, who we wouldn`t know were here. We wouldn`t even
know how to find them or monitor them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYES: Officials did say today they are learning from the involving
outbreak and tightening their policies and procedures in response. And
joining me now is Democratic Congressman Hakeem Jeffries who represents
parts of Brooklyn and Queens. Congressman, always good to talk to you.

REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), NEW YORK: Good to see you, Chris.

HAYES: First, I want to get your response to this new policy announced
this afternoon by Governor Cuomo and Governor Christie, which is going to
be essentially by executive order. We still don`t have paper on it, so we
don`t know under what authority and what the protocol is.

But they have announced mandatory quarantines for those who are screened in
incoming airports as having had exposure. The first example of that
tonight is a health care apparently worked for Doctors Without Border like
Dr. Craig Spencer coming into Newark, being quarantined, developing a
fever.

I think en route, it appears, to University Hospital. What do you think of
this new policy?

JEFFRIES: I think it`s an important step in the right direction and it`s
reasonable. The governors of both states have decided to proceed with an
abundance of caution given the fact that we have our first Ebola case here.

We are a city with more than 8 million people. We live close to each
other. We work close to each other. We travel close to each other. So I
think it`s a reasonable step to take at this given moment.

HAYES: I should note that the video that we`re showing of the ambulance
pulling up at the University Hospital being greeted by the people in the
hazmat gear, we do not have confirmation that is the woman in question. It
doesn`t seem implausible assumption that it is, but we cannot independently
confirm that.

I`ve got to say, it`s a little hard to stomach watching the House Oversight
hearings here because at one level, I think there are criticisms to be
made. And I think the situation that happened at Texas Presbyterian was
less than ideal and there were some breakdowns there.

At the other level, it just feels like I don`t really want to listen to
infectious disease advice from some of your colleagues frankly or you know,
turn this over to what is the least trusted institution in American life.

JEFFRIES: Well, the problem with congressional Republicans is that
hypocrisy is not a constraint to anything that they say or anything that
they do. I mean, these are congressional Republicans who are responsible
for hundreds of billions of dollars of cuts over the last several years to
the NIH, to the Center for Disease Control, to international aid
organizations, to the Health and Human Services Department.

Cuts that have had an impact, you can`t just dramatically cut government
agencies that are important particularly in the context of the health care
crisis and expect that these government agencies will be able to perform at
optimal level.

HAYES: OK, but do you think it is the case -- it seems to me that you
could make a case that these two things were independent that whatever
missteps happened were missteps that were independent of whatever funding
constraints.

JEFFRIES: Well, certainly as it relates to the Texas case. But I think
that in two important areas, one, the cuts in funding to the NIH, over
about a 10-year period, particularly accelerated over the last four years
by congressional Republicans have limited the ability to make further
progress on the notion of a vaccine, right.

So that is a clear, causal relationship between cuts and our ability to
more effectively deal with the situation. And apparently our ability to
detect earlier what was happening in these West African countries was
hampered, in large measure, by cuts to the government that were made with
our reaction to West Africa.

So I think it`s reasonable to say, listen, you can`t on the one hand claim
that the Obama administration has dropped the ball or other health
executives have dropped the ball without taking some of the responsibility
for the things that have happened.

HAYES: So the kind of policy dujor that everyone sees running around is
the travel ban. And I was thinking about Dr. Craig Spencer being cared for
right now and everyone wishing him the best and it seems to me you`ve got
this crazy thing where people say, well, you can`t have a travel ban
because that will restrict medical professionals going there, who were the
people we want to stop the outbreak.

And then people say, well, you have a loophole for medical professionals.
But as we are seeing, with the woman who has checked into the University
Hospital tonight, they are, by far, the most likely people to get it. So
then what the hell is the point of the travel ban?

JEFFRIES: Well, it`s a very complex situation and I understand why there
are some appeal to a travel ban sort on first blush, but this is very
complicated in terms of who actually is most likely to acquire Ebola based
on their travels.

And there`s no reason to believe that an outright travel ban that would
prohibit health officials or health administration from going back and
forth to be able to get this thing under control.

HAYES: And what we`re seeing and from talking to Dr. Peter Hotez is those
are the people, frankly, who are, by far, running the greatest risk. I
mean, if we`re going to see more cases here, it`s more likely to be some of
the very brave folks. Congressman Hakeen Jeffries, thanks.

JEFFRIES: Thank you. Good to see you.

HAYES: All right, much more on the breaking news out of New Jersey
tonight, I just mentioned where we`ve just learned that a health care
worker from Doctors Without Borders, same organization of Dr. Craig Spencer
is now being quarantined under a mandatory order from the governor after
arriving at Newark Airport and having reported that she was giving medical
care to Ebola patients. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYES: All right, we are standing here live outside Bellevue. We have
some breaking news tonight coming from just across the river in New Jersey
where under new state orders that were issued today by Governor Chris
Christie of New Jersey and Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York, all people
returning from West Africa who report having had exposure to Ebola patients
are being ordered into mandatory quarantine.

Today, this afternoon, a woman who Doctors Without Borders says worked for
them in West Africa treating patients with Ebola reported that. She was
then escorted to University Hospital in Newark where she is under
quarantine.

A statement from New Jersey public health officials this evening says she
has developed a fever. It`s uncheer at what point she did. It appears to
have developed a fever after already landing that she was asymptomatic in
flight, which of course, it`s a key distinction.

The ambulance that we`ve been showing tonight being greeted by those in
hazmat uniforms, we do not know if that`s her. We know that`s University
Hospital.

Here in New York tonight, we are approaching 34 hours since Dr. Craig
Spencer told the organization he`d been working with in West Africa, that
same organization, Doctors Without Borders that he had a fever, setting in
motion a long-planned citywide response that took him to an isolation room
here right behind be in Bellevue Hospital to being treatment for Ebola.

Dr. Spencer is in stable condition. Dr. Spencer`s fiance and two of his
friends are in quarantine, but are presently not symptomatic. Joining me
now is Lisa Baum. She is the occupational health and state representative
for the New York State Nurses Association.

The only people to contract Ebola in the U.S. are nurses, two of them. One
of whom was in the oval office today. How comfortable are you about the
safety of the nurses who are even more on the frontlines than the doctors
here at Bellevue.

LISA BAUM, NEW YORK STATE NURSES ASSOCIATION: They absolutely are. I
believe that the public here is at very little risk to Ebola here in the
United States. But a health care worker who is working very close to a
patient with a confirmed case of Ebola is at high risk for exposure.

And we saw that in Texas when proper protocols were not followed. Here at
Bellevue, they`ve been preparing for months for an eventuality such as
this. Bellevue is the flag ship of the public hospital system in New York
City. We`re very proud of the work that they`ve done.

We`ve worked very closely with them. They have had an open dialogue with
the New York State Nurses Association and have done extensive training of
those nurses who will have close contact with this patient.

HAYES: And that training means things as simple but as important as how to
put on the productive gear, what protective gear, which is a nontrivial set
of steps as we saw coming out of Texas.

BAUM: And this is not the type of gear your average nurse wears. It is a
skill that has to be learned very carefully and the highest risk of
exposure for a nurse, who is properly protected, as they are at Bellevue,
is when they remove this personal protective equipment.

HAYES: Because that gear will come into contact with some of the fluids of
the patient. That is what is bearing a high viral load particularly if the
illness increases and in the process of taking it off, that`s when exposure
risk is highest.

BAUM: That`s correct. We are also concerned at the New York State Nurses
Association as is the AFL-CIO and National Nurses United that there are no
mandatory guidelines for this kind of training and we support that strong.

HAYES: Lisa Baum, thank you very much. That is ALL IN --




THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
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