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The Ed Show for Thursday, December 4th, 2014

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Date: December 4, 2014

Guest: Al Green, Daryl Parks, Karen Desoto, Chuck Drago, T-Dubb-O,
Jennifer Epps-Addison

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York.

All right, let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t breathe.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t breathe.

REP. PETER KING, (R) NEW YORK: If you`re speaking, you can breathe.

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: All lives must be valued.

our kid.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK: Couldn`t help but immediately think what
it would mean to me to lose Dante.

ESAW GARNER, ERIC GARNER`WIFE: It`s not fair. It`s not fair. What do
they not see? How could they possible not indict?

resist arrest, it leads to tragedy.

OBAMA: Big challenges like these should galvanize our country.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: I do think that the American
people deserve more answers about what really happened here.

urging us on.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

I`m going to talk a little bit about change tonight. Change -- change
happens in every generation. This is our opportunity as a country to do
something. Will all these protests bring change? Protests around the
country are going strong. Americans still upset that a New York City
police officer was not indicted in the death of Eric Garner.

Earlier today President Obama addressed the situation for a second time.


OBAMA: When it comes, as we`ve seen unfortunately in recent days, to our
criminal justice system, too many Americans feel deep unfairness when it
comes to the gap between our professed ideals and how laws are applied on a
day-to-day basis.

Before I came here I had a chance to speak with Mayor de Blasio in New
York, and I commended him for his words yesterday and for the way New
Yorkers have been engaging in peaceful protests and being constructive. He
was just in the White House with us on Monday as we started taking some
concrete steps to strengthen the relationship between law enforcement and
communities of color, and I intend to take more steps with leaders like him
in the months ahead.


SCHULTZ: Protest took place around the country last night, the biggest
demonstrations here in New York where over 80 people were arrested.
Protesters gathered in Time Square, Union Square, here at Rockefeller
Center and Grand Central Station. They made their voices clear.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re targets now. Every black man is a target but
guess what? This don`t end here. This is going to happen constantly, if
you ain`t got a cell phone you`re in bad shape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no justice. No justice but I hope there`ll
be peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They kill that man over here, over a new cigarette
which cost $0.50, to choke him, to have him saying that, I can`t breathe.
You have video and you have audio and you can`t get a conviction? What
else do you need?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any concerns that there will be unrest like they did
in Ferguson that, that will happen here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, I do. The cops harm here, day in day night for
the community, they put themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m not surprised. But it should have been -- he
should have been indicted. And I really feel disappointed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m truly upset. I have grownup sons and, you know,
I fear for their lives as well. God forbid if they caught doing something


SCHULTZ: I hope America is listening, lots of anger and lots of anguish.
But is there still hope? Later tonight protest will be held in Foley
Square and Union Square here in Manhattan. Outraged over the case pretty
simple, a police officer was caught on camera killing an unarmed black man
and got away with it. That`s how people are viewing it. Talk to them on
the street.

The chokehold the officer used was against NYPD rules but not against the
law. And Garner`s death was ruled a homicide even though a New York City
grand jury didn`t indict the officer. Federal prosecution is still

HOLDER: The Justice Department will proceed with a federal civil rights
investigation into Mr. Garner`s death. Our prosecutors will conduct an
independent, thorough, fair and expeditious investigation.

SCHULTZ: There aren`t many Americans out there who think Garner`s killing
was justified. Last night New York Democratic congressional delegation
expressed their outrage of the grand jury decision. They made it very
clear a great injustice had taken place. On the flip side there`s New York
Republicans Congressman Peter King.


KING: You had a 350-pound person who was resisting arrest. The police
were trying to bring him down as quickly as possible. If he had not had
asthma and a heart condition and was so obese, he almost definitely he
would not have died from this. The police had no reason to know that he
was in serious condition, you know, people were saying that he said 11
times or seven times, I can`t breathe. Well the fact is, if you can`t
breathe you can`t talk.


SCHULTZ: If this, if that, if whatever. Peter King, I think you`re
standing on island. Earlier today, House Speaker John Boehner had this to
say regarding Garner`s death.


BOEHNER: My colleague Cathy McMorris Rogers earlier today suggested that
there may need to be hearings. I`m not going to rule that in or out but I
do think that the American people deserve more answers about what really
happened here and was our system of justice handled properly.


SCHULTZ: Now that`s an interesting sound byte. John Boehner says the
America people want answers. Mr. Boehner, you`re in a position of power.
You can make sure those hearings take place. So now Washington is
injecting itself into this process which I think is a good thing because
Washington has done those of kind of things in the past. I`ll explain in a

The fact that John Boehner is willing to admit that there is a problem I
think is a big step forward. Earlier today the Congressional Black Caucus
sought legal counsel concerning the grand jury testimony. The CBC wants
the entire grand jury testimony released. Members told me today change
can`t take place unless there is complete transparency.

As for the demonstrations across America, as they take place watching them,
it`s clear to me that these 20 something`s, these young Americans who are
out in the street, certainly they want justice. But they want more than
justice. They want a better America. Yes, they want justice and they want
fairness along with it.

They want an opportunity at a better life. And they want a system that
doesn`t favor the wealthy all the time. They want their voices heard. You
know, that there was 190 cities in this country today where people walk off
the job because the wages are too low? You think that`s a problem?

What these young people can`t loose is hope. They must continue to believe
that they could make a difference. And these protests must stay non-
violence, they must be Martin Luther King-like and they must continue.
That`s how you bring change.

And, we all draw on our personal experiences. Change comes in every
generation of America. I want to take you back 43 years ago. I was just a
17-year-old kid on the sideline watching life go by. What was the mission
back then? Well, on the football and the high school that I went to the
issue was forced busing for racial equality.

We all had something in common no doubt, absolutely. We had to integrate
because the federal government told us we had to. We had to go to school
with black guys. We had to go to school with kids on the other side of
town. Racial equality, that`s what the federal government said back then.

And what we had in common was the Vietnam War was raging. There had
already been one draft in 1969. There was another in 1970. And all of us
who are playing at that time we`re fearing that, holy smokes they might
have another draft and our number might get called.

And the injustice that was going on then is was all the rich kids were
getting deferments. How did that work out? And they were protests all
over America. So many protests that this country decided to do what many
Americans wanted get the hell out of Vietnam and do some change.

That can happen now. And as it was changed being forced 43 years ago and I
saw it and I believe today that change can happen. And I don`t know what
role the federal government has in law enforcement and street interaction
in America. But I think we got to have people who are concerned about it
enough to try to do something about it.

We were told to do something. We did it. It worked. It can work. We`re
a great nation. For us to sit here and bitch every night talking about
this happened and this happened and this happened and why, why, why. OK,
it`s up to the leaders.

Leadership is important in America. Talk is cheap. We got to move on this
just like we moved on the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s, just like we
moved on integration, just like kids had to get up in the morning and get
on a bus and go to a different school for equality.

So now we`re at another one of those moments. These kids in the street
across America, they don`t want their health care taken away. They want a
chance at an education without being broke. They want to make sure that
they are going to get a good job that pays them well and it doesn`t go
overseas. Is that asking too much?

Change, if you`re not on the street and if you`re voices aren`t heard, it`s
not going to happen. For Boehner to say what he said today, to me is the
money sound byte that something might happen, because people of authority
are the ones that we have to depend on. You know, authority is a hell of a

Those cops on that street have authority, they have responsibility and they
had a result and America doesn`t like it. Now what are we going to do
about it.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight tonight`s
question, "Do you think anything will ever really change in law enforcement
dealing with minorities?"

Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622, you can go to our blog at We encourage you to leave a comment there. We`ll bring in
the results later on in the program.

For more let me bring in Texas Congressman Al Green, Congressman, good to
have you with us tonight.

REP. AL GREEN, (D) TEXAS: Good to be with you Ed.

SCHULTZ: Do you think Speaker Boehner is serious about these hearings? Do
you think that if these protests across America continue that the federal
government will get involved?

GREEN: I hope that he is serious and I will him at his word, but I do
caution him to understand that he will have to stand his ground, because
there are good many people who are making at their mission to contact
members of Congress who talk about change. There are people who want to
maintain the status quo, they are well organized and I assure you they are
mobilized to make this calls and make certain conversations unpleasant
while they`re talking to you.

Now, with reference to change, Ed I am so pleased that you have made this a
topic of discussion, because without peaceful protests, you will have at
best piecemeal change. You have to have protests to have great gain, to
have the change that we seek the protestation must continue. So I`m
encouraging those who are taking to the streets in a peaceful way to please
continue to do what you do. I will join you.

I believe that we got here because of change that was created by the
protests. Many of them took place in to 1960s. When Dr. King marched from
Selma to Montgomery that created change, but it was really Bloody Sunday
that caused the world to see what the horrors of segregation was all about.

So I`m encouraging peaceful protests. I support law enforcement. I
believe that those who commit crimes ought to go jail. It doesn`t matter
who you are. No person should be above the law and no person should be
beneath the law.

The law should be applied equally to all.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, what will hearings accomplish? And I guess maybe I
better put this question forth first. What would it take for John Boehner
to make sure there`s hearings, how much more has to happen?

GREEN: Well, Speaker Boehner has it within his power to calls the hearings
to take place.

SCHULTZ: And for him to say that today, I think is big. That is a first

GREEN: I think it`s very big. I want to complement him.

SCHULTZ: Because people in authority are the ones that are going to have
to move on this.

GREEN: I happen to think that Speaker Boehner spoke truthfully and I trust
that we will see some follow-through. I did caution about the many people
who will contact him to try to persuade him to do otherwise. Now, what
will the hearings bring about?

I believed you get some degree of transparency Ed. What we are seeing now
is an abuse, an abuse of the discretionary powers that the prosecutors
have. And this abuse of power can cause the grand jury system that we want
to respect, that we do respect to become questioned, because you cannot
allow the grand jury to take on the perception of being a star chamber.

Where there is a little due process, where a secret statements are made,
and you don`t really get a chance to understand all of what happened before
that grand jury. We cannot allow the grand jury to be abused.


GREEN: You got to protect the integrity of this process Ed. If we don`t
stand up now and protect the integrity of the grand jury process and not
allow these prosecutors to abuse their discretion, we are going to find
that people are going to distrust the system.


GREEN: These people who are protesting are protecting the American
judicial system.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Al Green of Texas, good to have you with us tonight.

You are looking live at lower Manhattan. This is a live shot where
protesters are gathering tonight. The city is expecting thousands of
protesters out and of course the plea is out by the Mayor, Bill de Blasio
to keep it peaceful.

Let me bring Daryl Parks, Attorney for the Brown family, and also Dr. James
Peterson, MSNBC Contributor and Director of Africana Studies at Lehigh
University, gentlemen good to have you with us.

Daryl, I want to ask you, do you think anything will come of the Justice
Department investigation, the process, what is it?

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Without question, I think a lot will
come from it. When you have the engagement that you have from Attorney
General Eric Holder and the President on these issues, and they are really
applying themselves as you know, the Attorney General even came down to
Atlanta down south this week to start talking with leaders.

When you have that level of engagement and probably most importantly, the
message of law enforcement is that we have to do better. For so long it`s
been far acceptable to law enforcement that they can...


PARKS: ... overreach when it comes to minorities. Well now the message
is, that`s not acceptable. So there will definitely be change.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Parks, I tweeted out today, I want someone from law
enforcement to come forward and explain the video tape. I think the
country isn`t going to feel any restitution whatsoever unless we are as a
country talk to about what happened on that street. And I mean a play by
play of what these cops did and how they did it.

What training is taking place in the career of these cops to have them come
to this judgment and to this kind of force? And Dr. Peterson if we don`t
have the conversation, if we don`t have that explanation where does it take

JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well Ed, I`m sorry to say Ed, I don`t
think there is an explanation that will be satisfactory to you or to many
of the American people with respect to this video. That`s the challenge
here. People will see the video and I`ve seen some criminal law and
criminal justice experts try to explain different moves and this kind of
move, is this kind of move, is that kind of move.

When people see with their own two eyes this man is choked to death, people
see the outlaw officers on his back and on his head, and he is saying I
can`t breath. I mean, there is unfortunately, there is no way to explain
away the tape. The American people have seen it and obviously by nature of
the protests that you see right now, they`ve already sort of evaluated and
made their own decision.

SCHULTZ: So Mr. Parks, if the video is not a big deal to the grand jury,
how do we know it`s going to be a big deal on the federal investigation?

PARKS: Well, without question, obviously we don`t know why the grand jury
came to that decision. Hopefully those transcripts will be released at
some point. But I think in this situation Ed, it is OK for us to believe
our lion eyes. I mean we see what happened.


PARKS: I mean there`s no one -- no one has to interpret that for us. So,
without question, I mean, there`s no explanation I really need. I think I
see it, I understand what it is and we can certainly come to our own
determination as to Eric, you know, Garner, with him crying for his life
for God`s sake...

SCHULTZ: And Dr...

PARKS: And it doesn`t get any clear...


PARKS: ... than this case.

SCHULTZ: And Dr. Peterson, we`re looking at live shots at lower Manhattan
right now. Demonstrations and protests can lose their credibility in the
heartbeat if there`s any kind of violence. What are your expectations
here? What`s going to happen as you see it?

PETERSON: Well, you know, Ed I have a kind of different viewpoint on this.
You know, obviously for ponderance (ph) of people that are out there, are
protesting and trying to demonstrate their anguish and frustration with the
system that is not working for certain people in this country. And rather
than focus on whether or not protesters become violent, I want to make sure
that law enforcement keeps a level head, understand the frustration and

And I want to challenge law enforcement to make sure that these things are
peaceful and that they are not antagonized easily by some sort, sometimes a
small group of people who sometimes want to disrupt these things. But the
reality is people are expressing their frustration because they`re seeing
what we`re seeing. There are too many of these cases.

The grand jury process is not working to get justice out of these cases,
and too often we`re left in anguish and in pain with the loss of life in
our communities, with no recourse. And so that`s what we are seeing in
play itself out on the American streets. Hopefully, law enforcement can
understand, appreciate that and respect that.

SCHULTZ: Daryl Parks, James Peterson, gentlemen, thanks so much, the
conversation continuous.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter at Ed Show and like us Facebook and
thanks for that.

Coming up, we have new documents released today from the grand jury, the
Garner grand jury. Keep it right here. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

There are calls for more information from the Richmond County Court to
learn why the grand jury decided not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo in
the death of Eric Garner.

Staten Island District Attorney Daniel Donovan is asking for specific
information to be released to the public. This afternoon, the judge
released a document giving us some insight into the case. The 23 member
grand jury sat for nine weeks and heard from 50 witnesses, 60 exhibits were
admitted in the evidence including four videos and recordings regarding
NYPD policies and procedures.

A lot of the focus has been on the intent of officer Pantaleo`s actions.
Officer Pantaleo said in his statement following the decision that it`s
never in his intention to harm.

The New York City PBA President also released a statement saying, "It`s
clear that the officer`s intention was to do nothing more than take Mr.
Garner into custody as instructed."

But I think really they`re focusing on the wrong element here. I think it
shouldn`t be on about the officer`s intent. It should be about the
officer`s responsibility and the actions and the result of the actions.

Take a look at the video. Pantaleo`s lawyer tells the New York Times, the
officer testified. He was employing a maneuver taught to him at the police
academy. A lot of people consider the officer`s actions an illegal

In my opinion, police officers have authority and with that authority comes
responsibility. In this case, the way the police used their authority and
the result should have been the focus of the grand jury not the intent.

For more, let`s bring in Karen Desoto, Defense Attorney, Former Prosecutor
and professor of political science at New Jersey City University. Also
with us tonight, Mike Papantonio, Ring of Fire Radio host, great to have
both of you with us.

Karen, the focus of the grand jury, intent.


SCHULTZ: What about actions? What about result? What about

DESOTO: Well, because they`re there to indict somebody on criminal
charges, not the police department but the individual. Therefore Ed, the
focus is -- and the first two, the defendant in the case, therefore the
laws are designed to be more helpful not hurtful to a defendant, OK? We`re
going to give him every benefit of the doubt.

So, if it is that he doesn`t have liability because he was just doing what
he was trained to do then criminal liability does not attach. And that is
illegal concept, sometimes it`s very hard for laypeople (ph) to understand.
But if you`re just doing your job, then obviously you can do whatever you
need to do to the police department.

You know, trying to get rid of the statue, trying to get legislators to
come together to give some type of law or direction to the attorney general
guidelines. Because at the end of the day, I want everyone to understand
that chokeholds are guidelines.

So, short of a legislator getting together and having directives saying
non-violence and violence like back 1985 with the Tennessee case which was
a huge case talking about non-violence and violence and taking somebody
into custody, and 21 states changed their law after that. So we need some

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, as you see it what should be changed?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, ATTORNEY: I see it a little different, It`s impossible to
analyze these facts without first understanding why the chokehold was
banned, off limits not only in New York but in law enforcement
organizations all over the country.

In fact the only time an officer can use a chokehold is when his life or
another person`s life is in danger. There are about a half of dozen other
types of body restraints that are far more effective.

So in New York, you talk about what`s important here. Do we get to the
intent issue about first, looking at this film and understand what
happened. What happened is this officer violated what he was told not to
do. He was told do not use a chokehold unless you have to.

In New York, the Civilian Complaint Review Board receives 200 reports of
chokeholds every year. In reality, that`s a fraction of what happens.
This officer has been told not to do that he does it anyway. At the very
least, we`re ought to be talking about recklessness.

Its important Ed, I think this is extremely important. It`s important to
understand how violently dangerous the chokehold is. Usually, it`s not
done properly. It crashes the windpipe and obviously cuts off steady flow
of oxygen to the brain. In addition to that, it often has the potential to
close down the carotid artery.

So we have to look at the totality of what this officer was faced with.
This is a guy selling cigarettes. He`s selling cigarettes.

SCHULTZ: Part of the defense here is, is that you can`t talk when you`re
being choked, your thoughts on that.

PAPANTONIO: Well, I mean, look...

SCHULTZ: I mean that`s what Peter King is saying. That`s what some people
who were defending the decision of the grand jury.

PAPANTONIO: Look, its absurd -- we don`t even know at this point what the
corner said, Ed. The corner said this is a homicide. And I`ll tell you
what happen. This D.A. put through the grand jury all of these forensic
panels (ph) that look like experts that know everything.

Nobody was cross-examined, these forensic experts make it look like, well
gee-whiz this officer...


PAPANTONIO: ... did exactly what he was supposed to do and that`s the
disadvantage of the grand jury.

SCHULTZ: Karen your thoughts on these.

DESOTO: Well, you have the grand jury process. And I`m going to disagree
with a lot of my colleagues. You know, we have the saying in the law that
you can indict a ham sandwich and that`s not meant in a positive context,

Grand jurors, they`re everyday people, they`re professional, they are
retired people, they ask questions, they know enough to ask for documents.
So, it`s a little offensive when people say that they`re not in a position
to be able to make sure these decisions. I mean, really they`re doing a
tremendous public service.

Obviously, one of the questions is, you know, should the prosecutor have
led them more? Should they have cross-examined more? We don`t know what
went on inside there.

SCHULTZ: So that takes us to the documents.

DESOTO: Right.

SCHULTZ: Why aren`t the documents going to be release? I mean the
Congressional Black Caucus...

DESOTO: Right.

SCHULTZ: ... is seeking legal council on what avenues they can take to get
their full release here, and now it seems like we`re going to get a
piecemeal on untimely fashion.

DESOTO: I am with you on this. I think that the grand jury transcripts
should always be released.

You know, in cases that I do, the grand jury transcripts are released only
to me as the attorney. However, if we`re going to talk about transparency
and opening up some dialogue, mediation, maybe, you know, coming to some
kind of restored of justice strategy, release the transcripts.

Let`s see how the grand jurors were presented the evidence. What is
evidence is in question? Obviously, there`s a lot of passion people,
people want facts and maybe if we know the facts, maybe we would understand
this a little bit better.

SCHULTZ: What about that Mike? What`s they`re going to take to get a full
release for these transcript? I mean, down in Ferguson it was -- even
though has really agree with that. The transcripts were made available
after the press conference.

PAPANTONIO: Ed, I don`t think the -- look at the Ferguson transcript. It
didn`t really tell us how everything was presented. There`s many no
answers (ph) to how a D.A. presents information to a grand jury. What does
he emphasized, what does he ignore, where does he pay attention?

Here you`ve got the D.A. who at one time was floating the idea of running
as a Republican congressional representative there in Staten Island. He
needs the protection of the police department. He needs the help of the
police department to get elected as next time and they handle his next
court case.

So I have it -- it`s impossible for me to believe that the way that
information is presented. When we look at that video, the way that
information was presented falls in the face of what we would see in front
of a real jury where there`s real cross-examination of this forensic
(inaudible) I call them, who will come and say anything you need them to

DESOTO: It`s a grand jury. It`s a not a real jury. That`s not the
intent. It`s probable cause. More probable than not that a crime

So, you know, depending on the information. And listen, there is
information that we`re not pretty too. A lot of things that we don`t know
which is why I always say, wait, hear the facts then make a


DESOTO: ... because there`s a lot of misinformation Ed. And, you know,
this is a very passionate cases...

SCHULTZ: But we would know a lot more if we have the full transcript. I
mean, there is...

DESOTO: I hear you. Why not really...


DESOTO: If this was on the open up and there was no special prosecutor and
they want to justify that this was independent and the information was OK.
Release the transcripts.

SCHULTZ: OK. It`s hard to look for change unless you know everything that
is unfolded.

Mike Papantonio, Karen Desoto, great to have both of you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.

Coming up, policing in America is coming under fire. A 30-year-old law
enforcement veteran joins me next.

And at this hour, protests are happening all over America. We`ll bring you
the latest.

You`re looking live at Lower Manhattan right there here in New York as
protesters gather for night number two.

We`ll be right back. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. And the great tradition continues
at America. The President and the First Lady and daughters have just lit
up the beautiful Christmas tree in Washington D.C.

Turning now to the activist organizing in Foley Square in Lower Manhattan,
this is just across the street from the New York City Police Department
headquarters. Demonstrators are marching in, protests for a grand jury`s
decision not to indict the officer who killed Eric Garner in July.

Marches are being organized all over the country tonight and tomorrow from
Calumet, Michigan to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. We`ll keep an eye on these
marches and bring you any new details as they develop.

Keep it here. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.

KATE ROGERS, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Kate Rogers with your CNBC Market

A seesaw session today for the Dow which ends down 12, the S&P sheds 2 and
the NASDAQ falls 5.

The number of Americans filling for first time jobless claims fell last
week. Fillings dropped 17,000 to 297,000. Economist expected a decline to
295,000. The November jobs report is out tomorrow.

And shares of Sears walks more than 4 percent today, the company`s results
disappointed and it increased the number of stores it plans to close this

That`s it from CNBC, your first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

People want answers. Americans will not quickly forget seeing the video of
Eric Garner being surrounded by police. I think somebody in law
enforcement needs to step up and explain what happened here.

President Obama expressed his concern.


OBAMA: When anybody in this country is not being treated equally under the
law, that`s a problem and it`s my job as President to help solve it.


SCHULTZ: And I think a big part of the solution is a full explanation from
law enforcement. Somebody with the authority close to the incident has got
to come forward and explain all of these as I see it.

Daniel Pantaleo, the police officer who put his arms around Eric Garner`s
neck during the arrest issued a statement.

"I became a police officer to help people and protect those who can`t
protect themselves. It is never my intention to harm anyone and I feel
very bad about the death of Mr. Garner. My family and I include him and
his family in our prayers and I hope that they will accept my personal
condolences for this lost."

That statement is not an explanation. It`s not a promise of change. The
medical examiner ruled Garner`s death a homicide. Heart disease and
obesity contributed to the death but the police officer overexerted
themselves physically on an unhealthy man and killed him.

The police officers involved faced no repercussions while the family is
grieving Eric Garner`s loss.


ESAW SNIPES-GARNER, ERIC GARNER`S WIFE: A cop did wrong. Somebody that
gets paid to do right did wrong and he`s not held accountable for it. But
my husband`s death will not be in vain. As long as I have a breath in my
body, I will fight the fight to the end. Thank you.

GREN CARR, ERIC GARNER`S MOTHER: They didn`t only fail me. They failed
many of us and -- if we don`t take care of this, they may fail you in the


SCHULTZ: The outrage of this no indictment ruling is not isolated in New
York City. People in St. Louis, that area are empathizing. They continue
to protest the ruling not indict Officer Darren Wilson for killing unarmed
teenager Michael Brown, protesters have chanting one resounding phrase.

















SCHULTZ: Hands up, don`t shoot is a simple call for change in the law
enforcement tactics in America. The video shows Eric Garner being
surrounded by police with his hands up. It`s time for somebody as I said
from law enforcement -- is this is asking too much to come forward and
explain to America why this man was killed?

Fess up, own up. Explain to all of us, explain to the kids today who are
of a different skin color of mine, if they`re walking on the street nothing
to worry about. Yeah right.

Joining me now Chuck Drago who is a former Florida Police Chief and founder
and President of Drago Professional Consultant, also with us tonight Daryl
Parks attorney for the Michael Brown family, great to have both of you with

Chuck is it too much to ask that we would get, as Americans, an explanation
as to what the heck happened here?

explanation. We all deserve an explanation. The most important thing when
we`re dealing with the police is transparency and for people to have a
voice and for people to understand what their police are doing and why. So
an explanation is critical in these times.

SCHULTZ: So, I guess I`m looking for someone connected to New York Police
Department to hold a press conference, go through the tape and explain the
role of every officer and explain how this happened, why this happen. Is
that just out of the question? Is that something that could be done?

Because I think that the American people aren`t going to come to grips with
this until they get an explanation. There`s an explanation from the grand
jury. They made theirs, they`ve made their no decision, and there`s going
to be an investigation.

But the public, I mean to move forward is a country, the public needs to
know the training and the thinking behind all of these to move on. What
about that?

DRAGO: I think that`s -- that is very important. And I think one of the
mistakes that police departments I think make across the country, when they
have serious issue like this occurring is that they clay him up or they
circle the wagons, or they get lawyer up so to speak. And they`re afraid
to say too much at that point because they know they`re going to be sued,
or their officers won`t talk because they`re afraid they`re going to be
charge criminally.

So everybody clams up and nobody wants to give out any information. In
some cases the police department thinks that the better way to go where
they`re safe is the way to go. But in fact, it`s the worst thing they can
possibly do. People need information, and when you don`t give information
is when they get nervous and that`s what happens in this case.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Parks is there a chance we may never know the full testimony
or how everything unfolded in front of the grand jury?

PARKS: Well, we may never know but I`ll say this though. I think the
change that we want see in our country will happen as result of deaths that
we`ve seen, and as a result of the grand jury action and prosecutorial
action that we`ve seen in both of these cases. So, I think change is
inevitable because of people are demanding it.

And I think it was great what we heard the Speaker of the House say, things
we`ve heard the President say, things that we`ve Attorney General say.
These are all positive things that finally, they all agree, something has
to change here.

SCHULTZ: Chuck, what would remedy the tactic that was used on the street
from what your professional experience and from viewing the video tape?

DRAGO: Well, the officer shouldn`t have grabbed him around the throat.
And I can`t explain to you why he did that or did do that. The officers
were trying to make that arrest. They wanted to restrain Mr. Garner and,
one of the officers took that approach.

I don`t know why he did it. It`s not on the approach that`s trained. It`s
not the way officers are trained to restrain someone at that point. What
they should have continued to do was try to talk him into being handcuff
and of course if he continued to refuse to do that, they`d had to try to
take him by using hands and forcing his hand behind him.

It`s not an easy situation for police officer, when you`re dealing with
somebody who does not want to be handcuffed, it can be very, very dangerous
for the officers and very difficult to do without injuring him. So you
want to avoid that confrontation if at all possible, that`s the key. The
things that lead up to that confrontation is where officers are lacking in
training in my opinion.

SCHULTZ: Well, do they train the chokehold. I mean is this standard
operating procedure?

DRAGO: No, and I want to make sure we got our, you know, or speak down
right. A chokehold as oppose to a vascular restrain where you stop the
blood flow in the size of the neck. A chokehold is where you asphyxiate
somebody. There are two different holds or two different practices or
techniques. The chokehold, I don`t know if anybody that teaches or allows
the chokehold in there police department.

The vascular restrain is a common type of hold used across the country.
I`m not personally in favor of it but there are many departments that do
use it and do allow their officers to use it. And there`s a lot of people
that will argue for the benefits to that type of hold but it does not choke
the individual. That type of technique does not choke an individual.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Parks give us an idea how that would sound in front of grand

PARKS: Well, obviously they try to explain it the way in terms what was
actually taking place to justify the officer`s actions. But, obviously
from what we could tell from the video this officer was using excessive
force and Eric Garner telling time and time again that he couldn`t breath
and ultimately lead to his death. So, obviously it had a very negative
effect on Eric Garner given the situation he found himself in.

SCHULTZ: Chuck Drago and Daryl Parks, great to have both of you with us
tonight. I appreciate your time on this.

We are keeping an eye on the protest building at this hour in New York.
We`ll check in with our crews on the street just a head.

Stay with us we`ll be right back at the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Tonight protests of Eric Garner continue around the country.
Walkouts, rallies, and vigils are happening in nearly every state in the
United States and it happen throughout the day. From low wages to law
enforcement tactics people are speaking out in the form of protest.

Keep it right here. We`re keeping an eye on the demonstrations as they
unfold here in New York. We`ll bring you the latest.

We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: And we are back. The marches continue across the country. Waves
of protests erupted around America today for Eric Garner. Los Angeles, New
Orleans, Washington D.C., St. Louis are just few cities where crowds
gathered chanting Garner`s last words, "I can`t breath".

Demonstrators flooded Times Square in New York, traffic was stopped in the
West Side Highway, protesters gathered at Staten Island, site of Garner`s

Meanwhile, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio supported the citywide


DE BLASIO: This city respects people`s rights. Respect their right to
raise their voices. And understands that`s part of what makes us a
democracy. We are proud of how we respect protest. We think this is the
right way to do things.


SCHULTZ: And the protests were mostly peaceful. According to NYPD, 83
arrests occurred overnight. The majority of those arrests were charge with
disorderly conduct. No one was charged with assaulting an officer. Across
the country, protests have been occurring throughout today. Several more
rallies and vigils are planned for this evening. Nearly every state across
the nation will host a demonstration.

For more let`s go to our panel tonight, Trymaine Lee who`s an MSNBC
National Reporter, also joining us tonight by phone is T-Dubb-O, a St.
Louis community activist, and Jennifer Epps-Addison, Executive Director of
Wisconsin Jobs Now.

It is been a day of protest no doubt. Trymaine what are you hearing on the
ground tonight? As we look our live picture we see bunch of people
standing around. What are they saying?

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC NATIONAL REPORTER: That`s right, so here where I`m
standing just a few yards from the site of where Eric Garner died that July
day. The response has been rather measured from last night. There is so
much anger as much reflection and frustration.

And so behind me right now a group is gathering a vigil and rally, so again
unlike everywhere else and across the city where there this kind of
unfurling of anger and energy. Here, all day people have been more
reflective, wondering about the criminal justice system, about taking steps
forward. I spoke both with Eric Garner`s mother and father today at
separate occasions.

And while the mother, Gwen Carr said that, she`s thankful and still feels
blessed despite all the pain that her family is going through. She said
she`s going to push forward and there`s still a hope for change. She said
that she very much appreciate the words of Mayor Bill de Blasio seeming to
empathize with flight of so many black parents who`ve lost black children.

Being -- older men like Mr. Garner or children. And so again, here on the
ground there are still pain and hurt, not so much anger but again
reflecting on step moving forward.

SCHULTZ: It`s has been a day a protest across America. Let`s go Jennifer
Epps-Addison. There have been in 190 cities cross America today in the low
wage living protest that have taken place, fast-food workers walk off the
job and we`re also accompanied by convenient store workers. Jennifer,
what`s happening is this taking hold?

absolutely talking hold Ed, you know, the theme for today`s actions were
bigger, better and bolder. And that`s exactly what they were. They were
bigger than every before in 190 communities including 17 cities here in
Wisconsin, where workers participated in striking.

They were bolder. Workers were doing things like shutting down bridges in
Minnesota, shutting down entire stores in Michigan. Here in Wisconsin we
went and shutdown a shopping mall in suburbs. Workers are taking bolder
action to get their voice heard.

And the other thing that they`re doing is that they`re connecting the dots
between the movement for economic justice and the movement for racial
justice. And so each of the protests in this 190 cities started with
people raising their hands and saying in solidarity with Ferguson, in
solidarity with New York and here in Milwaukee where Dontre Hamilton was
shot 14 times and killed by police officers.

In solidarity in all of these cities that these are our communities that
these murders are happening in and they`re the same communities where big
corporation are making billions of dollars in profits exploiting the labor
of underpaid workers. So this has been an incredible day of protests and
participation in democracy.

SCHULTZ: T-Dubb-O is a community activist and someone who is no doubt in
the demo and in the mix of all of these. How do you feel after day one of
protest and are you confident there`s going to be change?

T-DUBB-O, ST. LOUIS ACTIVIST: First and foremost I want to go on a record
and say that Bill de Blasio is probably the best Mayor in the United States
and St. Louis, Missouri could definitely use a man of his caliber to work
for the people here.

I think change is going to come. But it`s going to continue to come at the
expense of fight of (ph) the people. These politicians is still (ph) seen
on their hands because at the same time these issues are going to effect
them now.

They`re not getting paid $7.50 an hour. They`re getting paid six figures a
year. Some of them make a million a year. That`s certain on being
harassed, and follow for school and having their constitutional rights
taking from them. They don`t have to worry about their children because
getting (ph) six shots at the back.

So, until they get off their hand, change is only going to come from the
people. And that change is going to come as quick as everybody in this
nation wake up and realize that there`s a problem and get out of their
offices, come out of bar, come out of the shopping centers and join forces
and we can continue to get the America that we are dreaming for.

SCHULTZ: All right, Trymaine Lee, T-Dubb-O and also Jennifer Epps-Addison.
I appreciate your time tonight. The protests continue across America this

That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.

Good evening Rev.


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