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The Ed Show for Thursday, January 8th, 2015

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Date: January 8, 2015
Guest: Michael O`Hanlon, Heather Hurlburt, Dean Obeidallah, Michael De
Dora, Jane Kleeb, Bob Shrum, Michio Kaku

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York. Let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The drama (ph) continues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... but there`s a very active manhunt going on...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People wonder if these people will attack again, if
they will be captured.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Americans wonder, could an attack like this happened

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... attack on the principles of a civil society.

CONAN O`BRIEN, LATE-NIGHT T.V. HOST: We just take it for granted that it`s
our right to poke fun at the untouchable or the sacred.

JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW HOST: Conversation from most of those on --
Let`s call it key civilization.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Every Americans stands with you...


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks, thanks for watching.

We start tonight with the latest on the massive manhunt in France. At this
hour, the two suspects from Wednesday`s shootings spree in Paris are still
on the loose. They are Kouachi and Said Kouachi. One of them left an
identification card in the getaway car they abandoned.

Police say the suspects are armed and dangerous. Cherif Kouachi was
convicted on the terrorism charge in 2008 and sentenced to over a year in
prison. He was part of a cell enlisting French nationals to go fight
Americans in Iraq. A third suspect surrendered late Wednesday at a police
station near the French-Belgian border.

He is reportedly cooperating with authorities. The parents of the brothers
were questioned on Wednesday. A total of nine people have been detained
over the course of the investigation. Two mass attackers with machine guns
robbed a gas station northeast of Paris today.

Witnesses say the robbers matched the description of the two remaining
terror suspects. They stole food and gasoline. New video today showed
anti-terror police marching into the town of Longpont near the gas station.
Longpont is roughly an hour and a half drive northeast of Paris. Police
are also reportedly searching a 51 square mile forest near the town.

NBC`s Steve Handelsman has the latest on the reaction here in the United


STEVE HANDELSMAN, NBC CORRESPONDENT: The terrorist soldier-like precision
is alarming experts in the U.S. They theorize that Charif and surely other
were trained and sent home by ISIS or al-Qaeda.

MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: And so, this is kind of the high end
of the new genre of attacks. I`m afraid we`re going to see for some time

HANDELSMAN: Maybe some lawmakers fear in America.

REP.WILLIAM KEATING, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: We have a situation where citizens
of the European Union can come more freely to the U.S., unless that`s
tightened up that`s a danger back here at home.

HANDELSMAN: In Philadelphia, Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist Signe
Wilkinson said, she will not stop drawing cartoons that could offend

SIGNE WILKINSON, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER: If you do not like to see your
prophets caricatured in a cartoon, don`t do stupid things in the name of
your prophet.

HANDELSMAN: In the U.S., security was tighter at French government
offices, as the Eiffel Tower lights went off and back on to honor the dead
and defy the extremists.


SCHULTZ: The Justice Department announced today that Attorney-General Eric
Holder will travel to Paris on Sunday. Holder will attend an international
meeting where he will discuss terrorist treats, foreign fighters and
countering violent extremism. This is a rapidly developing story in
France. The search is still on for those perpetrators. We will bring you
any of the details and updates as we get them.

For more, let me bring in NBC News Correspondent, Ron Allen in Paris
tonight, Ron good to have you with us. What`s the latest from French
authorities? They have apprehended nine people in this investigation.
What do you make of that?

RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS - PARIS, FRANCE: Well, they`re rounding up a lot of
people. The parents of the two suspects have been questioned, that
happened yesterday. So they`re on a trail and as you pointed out in the
lead, there`s a lot of territory to cover and a lot of potential places
where these two alleged perpetrators could be.

Since night fall, the last number of hours or so, we`ve had much less
information coming from the north of Paris where this extensive manhunting
has been going on now for sometime. So, we`re not really hearing a lot and
of course that`s for obvious reasons there. Not trying to tip their hands
about what they know and what they don`t know, the authorities are -- is of

But it`s been a day of very fast-moving events and a lot of uncertainty I
think is fair to say, a lot of some anxiety as well and a lot of concern
about where these all is going. This morning this country woke up to a
word that a policewoman have been killed in another attack. So now there
are actually three suspects who are on the run, who police are looking for.

And they`ve also said that those two incidents, the attack of the magazine
and the attack that killed the policewoman this morning apparently are not
related. So, what the motivations of the person was -- aren`t clear at
this hour. So, not a lot that we know that`s very hard about how close
they are and of course things have gotten much more difficult I would think
the authorities after dark.

So they`re going through these neighborhoods very carefully, house by
house, heavily armed, SWAT units and taking all kinds of precautions
because the two young men are believed to be armed and very dangerous.
They`re also very well-known to French authorities and that`s perhaps not a
surprise here because this country, unlike the United States is a much more
-- has much more serious problem with the young men going off to fight the
wars in Syria and Iraq in recent years than we have in the United States.

So, there`s a community of these individuals. There are as many as a
thousand or more here and the authorities have said that they basically
have been trying to keep track of them. They`ve been trying to keep track
of these brothers. One of them at least is far back as 2005. So, and they
can`t do it. It takes several officers to maintain 24/7 surveillance on
each suspects.

And right now, they`re of course trying to do that they said with several
hundred individuals who are perhaps the most suspicious and the most likely
to perhaps act out in a similar way perhaps. So, a lot of uncertainty
here, tomorrow security is going to be stepped up even further. They`re
talking about some 88,000 security personnel in and around Paris at
sensitive sites.

The military of course is involved in this. You mentioned Eric Holder is
coming here over the weekend and, the borders are sealed because of course
that`s a concern. The 18-year-old, the possible driver of the car, it`s
unclear whether he`s -- whether he was or was not involved. He`s put forth
an alibi that says he was in school and some people have apparently spoken
up for him.

That happened up near the border with Belgium which is quite a distance
from here. So, there`s a lot of territory that they`re trying to cover and
trying to keep track of and at this point it`s really unclear if they`re
making progress or not.

SCHULTZ: OK, Ron Allen reporting from Paris, France tonight. Ron thanks
so much for that report. I appreciate it.

Let me bring in Michael O`Hanlon, Senior Foreign Policy Fellow for the
Brookings Institute, also with us Heather Hurlburt who is a Project
Director for New America. Based on that report folks, what we have just
heard. 88,000 security people are going to be dispersed across the country
of France.

Michael, what is -- are they expecting another attack and the fact that
they have gotten nine people who have been detained in the investigation.
That certainly suggests that there`s some kind of network out there working
with these suspects. What about that?

MICHAEL O`HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: Yeah, great points. Well, I think
first of all, they have to assume there might be another attack. No one
knows. No one knows what`s in the psychologies of these individuals.

But if we think back for example to our own Boston bombers, they were
intending to go to New York and maybe wreck more havoc there, after their
tragic attack a couple of years ago. And certainly, there`s no reason to
role it out. I would have to assume that it`s the better part of caution
to think there might be yet another attack. And therefore, I`m not
surprised that France is doing what it`s doing, it has to.

As to the size of the network, it does appear that various kinds of
linkages to Syria and Iraq and cells that have been affiliated with Syria
and Iraq are part of what is motivating, part of what is informing the
actions of these brothers. And so, I have no idea how many people are
actually involved. Sometime these cells are relatively small and sometimes
they`re bigger.

But, the number nine that you just mentioned, again, not surprising in
terms of what might be the network here. It`s probably as your
correspondent just said, one element in a broader population of Jihadist in
France that`s in the many hundreds if not below thousands. But of course
French police can`t watch them all, all the time.

SCHULTZ: Heather, this has been described as a new genre of terrorism,
what does that mean and what it`s mean for America? What precautions, what
procedures might change for us?

thing to think about Ed is what`s actually going on right now. And the
reason you`ve got the 88,000 security forced out in France is not even so
much that there maybe another attack plan, is that these guys are still on
the loose and seemed very willing to kill anyone they come up against.

So, you know, for Americans to imagine a little bit what people in France
are going through, there are guards stationed that every entrance and exit
around the Paris beltway in case they try -- assuming these are the right
two people and the French police are right about where they are that they
try to come back into Paris. So, as a resident in Washington, you know,
I`ve been imagining well, what if the whole beltway was shutdown on folks
who live in other cities can imagine that.

So, in some ways, as Michael said, no this is isn`t a new genre of attack.
It is in some ways although much more professionally or apparently
professionally done which is more recent of what we saw in Boston last
year. It`s a small number of people supported or not, we have no idea by a
small or large network in the country, supported or not by forces further a
field. We have no idea.

They claimed, they yelled something about being connected to al-Qaeda in
Yemen but we have at yet no way of identifying that. One of the brothers
has in the past been linked to fighters against U.S. Forces and French
Forces in Iraq but very early days (ph) on that too. So, the lethality is
new and the connections, the apparent level of professionalization is new
and that`s a worry. But France in particular as your correspondent said
has faced this kind of problem for years.

And the challenge that we have as Americans is to say, OK there are several
things that are importantly different about the U.S. that have made these
kinds of attacks harder or less likely and less lethal when they happen.
But that doesn`t mean that groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and propagandas
affiliated with them aren`t eager to both make those attacks happen and
frankly make all of us frightened into thinking...


HURLBURT: ... that they will happen.

SCHULTZ: I mean, Michael how much more can we tighten the grip on society
to prevent things like this? I mean there`s a great deal of pervasiveness
that`s going on right now that a lot of people object to. But now when
something like this comes up, when you start talking about the
militarization of police you start to understand it a little bit or maybe
view it in a different light, your thoughts?

O`HANLON: Well, you know, as I was listening to Heather`s very wise
comments I was thinking, yes these attacks were professional. But they
reminded of many of massacres we`ve had in the United States in the last
few years that have typically had about the same number of fatalities and
sometimes more. Virginia Tech had more, Newtown had more. These are sort
of like the Colorado tragedies that we`ve seen in terms of the number of

When you have an AK-47 in your hands it doesn`t take whole lot of planning
or expertise to kill a dozen people. And, of course that has a very
sobering message which means that with the abundance of this kind of
weaponry in certain countries around the world including our own. There`s
the potential for a deranged or brutal individual to do this on their own


O`HANLON: ... or with very limited preparation and support as Heather was

I don`t think however that we`re likely to see, you know, we have enough
tragedy in the United States. We have enough of our own homegrown mass
shootings. And it`s hard for Jihadist who had been Syria or Iraq or
wherever to get into the United States. It`s not impossible but it`s hard.

And so, I still think that Americans -- we`ve got enough problems as it is.
I`m not sure if people need to view this additional problem as an order of
magnitude more severe than the kinds of gun violence dangers we already
have in the United States.

SCHULTZ: Well I would venture to say...

O`HANLON: It`s probably less...

SCHULTZ: I would venture to say that American are a lot more on edge right
now than they were last week. That if you have a former Bush
administration official who worked in security and intelligence say, that
this is a new genre of a terror attacks, people are going to start
wondering what the heck does that mean for us. I mean is this what we`re
going to start seeing. Are these networks happening?

Let`s go back to the fact that there was a robbery outside of France. And
if it was done by the suspects doesn`t that lend us some type of indication
that they`re -- if they`re stealing gas and food that they might not be as
organized or as supported as we might think. That seems to be somewhat a
move of desperation. Heather, your thoughts.

HURLBURT: Well, the related point to that which is fascinating is that on
the morning of the actual attack they didn`t know what building they were
going to. And although they seem to know that Charlie Hebdo was having a
staff meeting and who would be there. They went to the wrong building
first and then had to take someone at gun point to take them to the right

So yeah it`s important as Michael said not to kind of overstate how
prepared -- how prepared these guys are, how terrifying they are. And, you
know, Ed back to your point about what we can do here, it`s worth
remembering that France has a somewhat more policed society than the U.S.
does already.

So, if France is already deploying some tactics that maybe Americans aren`t
used to having use on our citizens and they knew about these guys and they
weren`t able to keep track of them. That should give Americans a certain
level of skepticism that more police or more security powers are going to
be the answer.


HURLBURT: And I do think whether it`s Mike Hayden or whoever else, you`re
hearing people push solutions that they were pushing last week before this

SCHULTZ: Michael O`Hanlon and Heather Hurlburt great to have you with us
tonight. I appreciate your time on the Ed Show. Thank you for your
insight and expertise.

Coming up, we will have more on the world reaction to the attacks in Paris.
Plus, Republicans are wasting an absurd amount of time on nonsense, their
first week in action. We`ll bring you up to speed on exactly what`s going
down at Washington.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.



DAVID CAMERON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: These events are a challenge to our
security because we have to fight this terrorism with everything that we
have. But they`re also a challenge to our values.

here today I could represent all Australians and say to the French that we
understand what you`re going through. And we understand the trauma that
yesterday`s and today`s events have caused.


SCHULTZ: In the wake of the horrific attacks in Paris people all over the
globe are coming together from Madrid, Spain to New York City Union`s
Square. People are gathering to show unity with France and the Magazine
Charlie Hebdo.

Pope Francis offered prayers for the victims during the mass this morning
at the Vatican. Journalist, cartoonist and comedians around the world have
also been writing and drawing support. This incident has opened up a
conversation worldwide about the pressure to sensor the kind of satirical
content Charlie Hebdo was known for.


STEWART: Stark reminder that for the most part the legislators and
journalist and institutions that we jab and ridicule are not in any way the

O`BRIEN: In this country we just take it for granted that it`s our right
to poke fun at the untouchable or the sacred. That`s a right some people
are inexplicably forced to die for.


SCHULTZ: World leaders are also unifying to address terrorist threats and
countering violence extremism in the wake of these attacks. That`s what
security forces are doing. But in journalism what is the response?

I`m joined tonight by Dean Obeidallah of The Daily Beast, he`s a columnist
there, also with us tonight Michael De Dora who is also the policy director
at the Center for Inquiry. Gentlemen we seem to have a conversation that
has broken out across the globe. What is decent? What`s free speech? How
far can we go?

And Dean if I can ask you first, what are the boundaries, are new
boundaries going to be drawn here? I have some thoughts on this, I want

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, DAILY BEAST COLUMNIST: I hope not Ed. I hope that people
will push the envelope (ph) in their writing. You know, I`ve written many
articles, mocking, comedically or seriously al-Qaeda and ISIS. I will not
stop doing that.

But I understand people are going to feel a sense of risk. It`s normal,
it`s understandable. At the same time we can`t give in, by giving in,
you`ve allowed these terrorists to win on some level. And I think it`s
much too important to ever allow that happen.

SCHULTZ: Those who want censorship and those who are off the opinion that,
well these guys actually had a reason. They were motivated by cartoons and
that kind of stuff.

I just feel like why are we giving murderers, crazy people and that`s
exactly what they are with the deranged value system. It`s almost like
some in this world are giving them an alibi for doing what they did. No
one condolence any kind of horrific acts like this and absolute
assassination and murder and execution of what it is.

So, why would we even go down the road of even saying, well gosh we have to
watch what we put out there. In a free society, we should be able to say
and do whatever we want and the free market will take care of it as far as
commerce and also decency, judgment by the people. What about that?

OBEIDALLAH: I couldn`t agree with you more. And also I`m a Muslim and
just so it`s clear there`s nothing in the Quran that says you cannot depict
the prophet Muhammad, nothing, zero. The Hadith which is the teachings of
Prophet Muhammad as codified by his disciples, there`s some things about
not writing and not depicting any prophet including Jesus Christ who`s a
prophet to Muslims. But there`s no penalties in there.

These men clearly had a political agenda or there are mental issues. We`ll
find out. It`s probably a political agenda. They use the cover of Islam
to effectuate their plan and then trying to get support, either for al-
Qaeda, ISIS or their own lone wolf enterprise. We`ll find out in time.

SCHULTZ: Michael, could there be a more of an aggressive attitude by
journalist around the world? This could not maybe hinder anybody`s ability
or heartened desire to do whatever the heck they want to do. What about

having Ed. And I do think that there could be a more aggressive response
here by journalists. I thought it was troubling to see Associated Press
starting to censor some of their images.

By also I thought it was heartening to see journalist such as Ross Douthat
at the New York Times writing an article basically saying that the answer
to this -- the answer to what you`re talking about before the kind of
heckler`s veto is to do more of this. To continue to do this, to publish
more of these kind cartoons, to continue to criticize, you know, religion
and other ideas that a lot of people think should be undercover. Because
the more that we do it, the more that we kind of make it an accepted norm
not just, you know, in a police like America but...


DE DORA: ... around the world.

SCHULTZ: Well Michael, your organization`s free inquiry was, as I know the
first in the United States to publish the Danish cartoons of Muhammad back
in 2005. What`s your reaction to the news outlets not showing the Charlie
Hebdo image and in their words for security reasons and for concerns of

DE DORA: Again, I think it`s a disappointing response from some corners of
the world of journalism to not republish some of these cartoons.

Now, you know, in their defense, some of the cartoons were a bit of
untasteful you might say, but the point of free speech is to support the
right of free speech of people to say just about anything. And I say just
about anything because there are some areas -- there are (inaudible) areas
that we`re not supposed to go into, you know, for example in segment to
mediate hatred or violence. That`s different though than cartoons and
writing articles in newspapers.


DE DORA: So I thought it was a little disappointing that some of the
newspapers -- at least in a show of solidarity, you know, here that they
wouldn`t republish some of those cartoons. And, hopefully they will
reconsider those positions as we move forward because this is a
conversation that`s going to be ongoing and there`s going to be a lot more
people chiming in.

So hopefully these newspapers and other outlets will feel the pressure.

SCHULTZ: Dean, you don`t view this is a benchmark moment in the industry
of free press?

OBEIDALLAH: I don`t at all. I think the only associative (ph) you`ll see
are from corporations who have a sense of responsibility for their
employees. I heard another network where they talk about saying, we don`t
want to expose our employees to potential any bad thing. I could tell you
as a journalist and also as a Muslim-American, I wish every publication
will print these cartoons. Freedom of expression is too important in our

And to ever give in the least bit on an issue like this would be a victory
for people who have no right to have any victory in this situation

SCHULTZ: So where is the...

DE DORA: Yeah, and what kind of message...

SCHULTZ: Go ahead.

DE DORA: ... does it send, you know, what kind of message does it send to
your employees if you`re kind of cowering over to these demands of
radicalists? I mean what kind of company are you operating if you make it
pretty clear that you`re going to operate your company according to what,
you know, again radicalist believe? I don`t think that that protects the
employees really in anyway either.

SCHULTZ: Senator Graham brought up the issue of -- to reevaluate our own
national security posture. We all know that the media in this country
plays a great deal, a great role I think in that because how far can
government go into our privacy?

Dean, your thoughts on that, I mean this is a -- I mean, some have said
what our government has been doing doesn`t seem too bad right now. They
can be as invasive responsible.

OBEIDALLAH: What Senator Graham wants, I`m not sure. It sounds like a
nice rhetoric for red meat (ph) for base to be (inaudible). We`ll see if
there`s any kind of detailed proposal by him but -- I mean, what more could
you want. I mean are they going to try to take more civil (ph) (inaudible)
away. Are they going to try to have more government sanction, look into
our e-mails, viewing what we`re doing and that we give in collectively
because we`re worried about a threat, a very, very isolated lone wolf

Let`s keep this in mind. This is not an organized attack. It`s only like
ISIS on the soil of the United States, something happen in France. There`s
millions of other Muslims living in that country have nothing to do with
this. I mean, be frankly, it`s not like there`s a 5th com (ph) waiting
there to attack the people in France. And some of these lying which you
hear from the people on the right is that we must worry about all Muslims
because we`re potentially a threat in this nation here or in the West,
that`s wrong.

Dean Obeidallah and Michael De Dora, great to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time.

DE DORA: Thank you.

Coming up, it`s January 8 and Mitch McConnell may already have given us,
believe it or not the Lie of the Year.

Rapid Response Panel digs into this next. Plus, we`ll have an update on
the NAACP attack in Colorado.

But next your questions, Ask Ed Live coming up here on the Ed Show on
MSNBC. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

I appreciate all your questions in our Ask Ed Live segment tonight our
first question comes from Reginald. He wants to know, "Will the President
stand up for the postal service before it`s too late?" That`s a great

I`m troubled by the fact that the President has been pretty quite on what
has happened to the Postal Service in recent years and has not really
explained his position of how vital the postal service is. It hires more
veterans than any other agency or business in the United States. It is
vital to small business and the cuts the postal service had to take,
unwarranted, unnecessary but of course the effort to privatize by the
Republicans is strong.

The President needs to take a strong stand and help the postal service as
much as possible and bring awareness to the American people what`s going
on. There are service standards that are changing this month.

Our next question is from Aria. She wants to know, "Why does conservative
media blame an entire religion when a few thugs attacks?" Well, there`s
people with a political agenda that will take any issue, any event and turn
it to their favors as best they possible can to push the way they think the
country ought to be run. It`s dangerous, it`s wrong and we got to be
smarter than that than to consume it.

A lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stay with us.

Market Wrap.

Well stocks surge again. The Dow rallies 323 point after a 200-point gain
on Wednesday. The S&P jumps 36. The NASDAQ climbs 85 points.

And it`s all about jobs, the number of Americans filling for jobless claims
dropped last week by 4,000 to 294,000. Economists were expecting a steeper

Meanwhile, another reporter job cuts fell more than 9 percent last month.
For the year, they were down 5 percent. The government`s job data is due
out tomorrow.

That`s it from CNBC. We`re first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: good to have you with us tonight. Thanks for watching. Ever
wonder where you tax dollars really go? Here we are we`re three days into
the Congress, the new Congress. And Republicans are already showing their
absurdity and wasting time.

The Senate Energy Committee pushed forward a Keystone XL project bill today
that President Obama has already said that he`s going to veto it. So why
waste time on it? Keystone XL would carry Canadian dirty sand oil through
the middle of the country to the Gulf Coast refineries. Now Republicans
are still bidding the drum of dirty oil.


SEN. JOHN HOEVEN, (R) NORTH DAKOTA: It`s one project but it`s part of, are
we going to build the infrastructure we need to truly have North American
energy security?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keystone is about jobs.


SCHULTZ: It`s about jobs. It`s about security, OK. No it`s not. Mitch
McConnell continued the absurdity with the most inaccurate analysis of the
economy we`ve heard yet.


sluggish growth we`re finally starting to see some economic data that can
provide a glimmer of hope. The uptick appears to coincide with the biggest
political change of the Obama administration`s long tenure in Washington.
The expectation of a new Republican Congress.


SCHULTZ: You bet. 10 million jobs added in 58 months of private sector
job growth. We`re starting to see an uptick and it`s a really good thing
the Republicans got the House and the Senate or that would have never
happened. Mitch McConnell is making the case that`s what the turn around
was. Are you kidding? Keep in mind none of them wanted to help the
automobile industry. In Detroit the President gave the real history of the
nations rebound.


office, 400,000 jobs vanished in this industry, 400,000. Sales plunged 40
percent. We could have done nothing which some people said we should do
and let those companies fail. But think about what that would have meant
for this country.

You know, over the past five years this industry created about 500,000 new

Last year, American autoworkers churned out cars faster than any year since


SCHULTZ: And the loan has been paid back completely. In fact the treasury
made money on it. So, as Mitch McConnell says we`re starting to see a
little uptick here in the economy. When you want some more absurdity I got
it for you. On their very first day in Congress the Republican majority
raced to gut Social Security. Republican passed a role which cripples the
reallocation of Social Security payroll tax revenue.

The GOP is setting the groundwork for showdown over benefits. And our
Senator who`s on this show quite a bit Bernie Sanders has warned us about
that. Well, he wasn`t off the mark. They did on day one. That`s their

Joining me tonight in our Rapid Response panel, Jane Kleeb, Executive
Director of Bold Nebraska, also Bob Shrum, Democratic Strategist and Warsaw
Professor of Politics at USC, great to have both of you with us. Jane,
let`s talk about the pipeline first. You were in that hearing today. What
did you hear? What do the Republicans say and how determined are they to
get Keystone after the President has said I`m going to veto it?

JANE KLEEB, EXEC. DIR. BOLD NEBRASKA: Yeah, they are hellbent on writing a
law for a foreign corporation for one single project. That`s exactly what
they`re doing. So they`re essentially telling any foreign corporation out
there, if you give us enough money, if you give us campaign donations bring
it on. We`ll write a bill for you, no problem.

We did hear some climate champions like Senator Stabenow from Michigan
really talk about the devastating effects of tar sand spill on Michigan
which she saw first hand and how much it hurt families. But we also saw
some really dangerous outdated rhetoric from not only Republicans but from
some Democrats like Senator Manchin. So we have a long way ahead of us in
order to not only get Keystone XL vetoed but rejected. But we are
confident we have the numbers to do so.

SCHULTZ: So the first hearing on Keystone, there`s a lot of them that
haven`t learned anything. They`re still spewing out the misinformation in
your opinion?

KLEEB: Absolutely. They are still saying the incorrect numbers on jobs.
They still don`t understand that this is an export pipeline. And what
baffles me the most out of all the rhetoric that they gave today, not one
of them mentioned imminent domain for private gain. And that is a
Republican kind of conservative value that you don`t use imminent domain
for private gain. And that`s exactly what this pipeline is doing.

SCHULTZ: OK. Bob Shrum, the economy, its good to know there is a little
uptick going on out there, isn`t it? What is Mitch McConnell doing?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, what he said was laughable. It`s
like Herbert Hoover taking credit for the new deal or Strom Thurmond taking
credit for the Civil Rights Bill. As Paul Krugman has demonstrated
brilliantly in the New York Times over the last several years, the
Republicans did everything they could to stall the recovery. And they
manage to slow it.

But now Ed, the recovery seems real and that presents a problem for them in
2016, because as people see the economy getting better, President Obama`s
numbers will rise. Democratic prospects will rise and no amount of spin is
going to change that.

Republicans tried for example in 1996, to take credit for the Clinton
recovery, voters just didn`t buy it. The real danger here is that
Republicans will damage the economy over the next several months, over the
next year and a half by either shutting down the government, playing
politics with the debt ceiling, trying to force the President to approve
Keystone or roll back his immigration reform.

Now, while they may want a bad recovery that is dangerous for them...


SHRUM: ... because they can`t be seemed to do that. And while they may
want to satisfy their base on immigration, that is dangerous too because if
they alienate Hispanics the Presidency is out of reach.

SCHULTZ: Well couple of things. I think Mitch McConnell believes that the
American people will believe anything just as long as somebody in the halls
of Congress says it.

But he also knows that if he doesn`t get that on the record or that bullet
point out there and get it planted with people, that if the economy does
goes south there will -- it will connected to the Republicans. Because
number one, I don`t think they`re going to come forward with a jobs bill
and number two, when they have the legislative power of the Senate and the
House, if it does goes south they would be breaking the street that the
Obama Administration has had a 58th month of private sector job growth.

The numbers are going to come out tomorrow. It`s probably going to be more
-- north of 200,000.

Jane, I want to ask you, a jobs package is want the President wants. The
Democrats want it. Is Keystone going to be a bargaining chip to get a big
jobs package so both side can say, hey we worked together?

KLEEB: No, there`s no way. The President is not going to do that. He has
sent no signal that he`s willing to essentially use our families as a
bargaining chip. And so, we`re not worried about that. He is a man of
principle. He will to look farmers and ranchers in the eye one day when he
rejects that pipeline and we feel confident about that.

And the reality is, the Grand Old Party and it is an old party of old
ideas, they need to start getting some new things in place or they are
going to lose the 2016 election.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, the President was in Detroit yesterday. He`s doing a
three-stop tour before the State of the Union Address and he talked about
the automobile recovery and industry that clearly the Republicans washed
their hands off.

It`s a fabulous story about what government can do. Can the Democrats
still hang on to that going into 2016 or is that an old story from 2012?

SHRUM: Oh no, I think Democrats can hang on to that and I think if the
economy continuous to do well, Democrats will be in a strong position. I
also believe that if Republicans do something that will crash the economy
or hurt the economy like playing politics with the debt ceiling, that
they`ll be in trouble, and you`re absolute right they`ll get the blame.

Look, the irony on the Keystone pipeline is that by playing politics with
it, I think Republicans have made it less likely that it will be approved
because as we debated it more and more and more we discovered for example
that the job claims, the new jobs that are going to come along are de

So I think they put themselves in a more difficult position in order to
satisfy the special interest to whom they answer. So, right now, I think
even though they control the Congress, they seem to have an agenda, go
after social security. Take health care away from a million working
Americans. Force the Keystone pipeline down the President`s throat which
is not going to happen.

They have an agenda that is not going to build a case for Republican
victory in 2016.

SCHULTZ: Well absurdity continuous between the automobile industry, the
economy and social security. Jane, you worked Obama for America. Where is
this President going to compromise with the Republicans? What is he going
to move on? Is it the corporate tax rate, is that something change CPI and
social security? Where is it?

KLEEB: You know, I think it`s going to be on immigration. I think
Republicans no long-term, they need the Latino voters to side with them and
a lot of Latino families actually are conservative and come from Catholic
backgrounds especially on the abortion issue. And so, I see that is the
one big area where Republicans and Democrats are going to come together.

SCHULTZ: All right, Jane Kleeb, Bob Shrum, great to have both of you with
us here on the Ed Show. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SHURM: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, an out of this world discovery and I mean it. I just
find this fascinating. Could a newly discovered planet be the new Earth?
We have an expert. You won`t want to miss next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: The FBI says the explosion outside of Colorado NAACP center could
be domestic terrorism. Congressman John Lewis shared historical
perspective on the civil rights struggle. He says the incident troubled
him and reminds him of another period.

Law enforcement is still on the hunt for a balding white middle-aged male
suspected in the crime. Neighbors of the Colorado Spring Chapter the NAACP
heard a large blast Tuesday morning. Witnesses described a white pick-up
track leaving the scene. The explosive device was placed near a gas
canister which did not ignite.

The blast caused surface damage on the building but no one was killed or
injured. We`ll keep you up to date on the latest.

Just what is 470 light years from Earth? That`s next on the Ed Show. Stay
with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Finally tonight, there are new
signs from space that we may not be alone. Astronomers at the Harvard-
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics identified eight planets they believe
have similar characteristic to Earth.

Here`s more on the discovery.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We used to look up in the sky and wonder at our place
in the stars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new planets discovered by the Kepler telescope
reside in the so-called Goldilocks Zone of the star they orbit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not to hot, not to cold, just right for life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This means it`s possible that liquid water can exist on
the planet`s surface.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we can find liquid water on the surface we think
we may very well find life there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kepler 438b is one of the planets located 470 light
years away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These planets were discovered around stars that are
slightly cooler or redder than our sun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s interesting about this planet is the distance
from the sun but its size.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s about 12 percent larger than Earth and most likely
has a rocky terrain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As powerful as Kepler space craft is, the planets are
so far away there`s is no way for us to see if they have water or life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Astronomers cannot determine whether the planet has an

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We currently don`t have the technology to sample those
planet`s atmospherics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kepler 438b is one of the planets described by one of
the study`s co-authors as being as closed to earth analogs as we`re going
to find in the Kepler data.

to find true Earth analogues so we can (inaudible) perspective of how not
or how unusual our own planet (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since its launch in March of 2009, the Kepler telescope
has discovered over 1000 exoplanets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there life in universe? Are they`re habitable
planets? Is there intelligent like humans?


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Michio Kaku who`s a professor of physics at
the City University of New York and author of "The Future of the Mind".

I -- it is mind boggling to me that we know what might be 470 light years
way from our planet. What do you make to all of this?

MICHIO KAKU, CUNY PROFESSOR: Well, the holy grail of planetary science is
to find an Earth-like twin in outer space. So when you look at the night
sky, you will wonder is anyone looking back at us. And this new planet
Kepler 438b is a -- it`s a game changer because it has the right size, it
has the right distance from the mother star.

And if it had a liquid ocean then bingo, it would be an Earth-like twin,
which will give us an existential shock looking at the night sky realizing
that there are twins of the Earth out there.

SCHULTZ: What do you think on the surface? I mean, give us an idea of
what you believe is on that surface from this research.

KAKU: Well, unlike Jupiter with a gaseous surface, we think it has a solid
rocky surface. We think that temperature is there, it could be slightly
higher than room temperature but we do think it`s at the right distance
from the sun to have an ocean.

If it`s too close, the water will boil. If it`s too far, water will
freeze. It`s just in the right zone to have liquid water and liquid water
is the universal solvent, the amniotic fluid that gave birth to life.

SCHULTZ: How much more can we learn from Kepler on this?

KAKU: Well Kepler is not sensitive enough to analyze the atmospheres of
these planets. However it`s given us a senses of the Milky Way galaxy.
Our galaxy that you see every night has over 100 billion stars and we think
that about a billion of them have Earth-like planets going around them.

SCHULTZ: So, how did we find this? How in this plethora of stars in the
solar system did we find that one that could be like Earth?

KAKU: Well, stars are very easy to see but they get eclipsed by the planet
which moves in front of the mother star. And so our telescopes are so
sensitive, we can see the dimming, a slight dimming of starlight as a
planet goes across the face of that sun and that`s how we do it.

We found about a thousand planets so far. We think that 50 percent of all
stars have planets going around them and perhaps one, maybe five percent of
all stars have Earth-like planets going around them.

SCHULTZ: Would you go so far as to come to the conclusion that there was
life on this planet and there was extinction?

KAKU: Well, that`s a possibility. Some people asked a question, well, how
come they don`t land on the White House lawn, right and announced their
existence. Well, first of all we have to establish, is there intelligent
life on the Earth and the answer to that is probably no. Just look at the
Congress, right.

But is there intelligent life in the universe?

SCHULTZ: I suppose studying this stuff all the time you have to have a
sense of humor, it might get a little boring, but that`s nothing (ph) for
me, I enjoy it.

So, what would bring you to the conclusion that there might have been Earth
there -- there might have been life there?

KAKU: If there`s a liquid ocean, that`s where the first DNA got off the
ground. We think that DNA got off the ground perhaps deep in the oceans
near volcano vents, because that`s supplied the first energy before
photosynthesis. And so we think that`s how life on the earth got started,
and we think that there could be this universal solvent, liquid water in
outer space.

SCHULTZ: Professor, does this information possibly redirect our space

KAKU: It does in a sense that we have what is called the SETI project
which tries eavesdrop on signals from an intelligent beings in outer space.

SCHULTZ: We`re good at that now.

KAKU: We could see no evidence of any intelligent life at all. So, this
will help to redirect the SETI project. We`ll focus in on those star
systems where we think there could be life. And we`re going to have an
existential shock every night looking at the night sky realizing there,
there, there that could be twins of the Earth right there in the familiar

SCHULTZ: You`ve done this your whole life. How fascinating is this to

KAKU: Well, you know, this is our universe. This is our home and we are
so myopic. We keep our heads to the floor looking at the ground. We don`t
look up and we see this incredible universe of us.

How many of us have looked at the Milky Way galaxy and stared at 100
billion stars at night?

SCHULTZ: Hey, I get existed about the northern lights up north. I mean
I`m still trying to figure out how that works. That`s just absolutely
amazing and it`s beautiful.

Professor, I appreciate your time. Thanks for coming in. I want to talk
more about this so come back and join us again and how long would it take
us with the conventional satellite -- or should I say space equipment that
the country has been using for us to get to this planet 438b?

KAKU: Well, a Saturn rocket traveling at 25,000 miles per hour will take
over a million years to reach Kepler 438. We need a new rocket system
maybe antimatter rockets.

SCHULTZ: Professor Kaku, thanks.


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