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PoliticsNation, Tuesday, January 13th, 2015

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POLITICS NATION
January 13, 2015

Guest: Angela Rye, Hogan Gidley, Alyona Minkovski, Jimmy Williams, Zerlina
Maxwell, Dana Milbank; Karen Bass


REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR, POLITICS NATION: Good evening, Ed.
And thanks to you for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, the power of the veto. Today President Obama met with
leaders in Congress saying he will work with Republican where he can. But
less than an hour before that meeting, Speaker Boehner showed why that
won`t always be possible. Vowing to attack the president`s historic
immigration action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We`re voting to block the
president`s overreach, his executive overreach, which I believe is beyond
his constitutional duty and frankly violates the constitution itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: It`s a frontal assault on one of the president`s key
achievements, and he won`t let it happen. The president says he will veto
the bill, and it`s not just immigration. He`s also threatened vetoes on
the keystone pipeline, a GOP effort to attack his health law, a bill
gutting bank reform, and another that would weaken federal regulations.
Five veto threats just since the start of 2015. And Republicans aren`t
happy about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP, KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), CALIFORNIA: One thing that I made the point to
the president is that in one week he`s offered five veto threats.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: It seems with every new day
we have a new veto threat from the president.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: To issue premature veto threats on
legislation that hasn`t even been filed yet is deeply irresponsible and
troubling.

REP. TOM COLE (R), OKLAHOMA: I think deliberately, you know, trying to
provoke people is a mistake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our outreach has really been just met with threats of
veto.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: They want to destroy the president`s legacy and call it
outreach?

President Obama isn`t falling for it, and it`s tearing Republicans apart.
Now some house conservatives are so frustrated, they are plotting a mass
exodus from a key right-wing caucus.

"The National Journal" reports, quote "many of the members will meet
Tuesday evening with Senator Ted Cruz to discuss their plans and other
matters over pizza."

Pizza with Ted Cruz. That will do it, because everyone knows there`s no
better tool for taking on presidential tyranny than extra cheese and
pepperoni. President Obama`s using one of the greatest powers available to
the chief executive, and there`s little the GOP can do about it.

Joining me now is congresswoman Karen Bass, Democrat from California, and
Dana Milbank from "the Washington Post." thank you both for being here.

DANA MILBANK, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Hi, Reverend.

REP. KAREN BASS (D) CALIFORNIA: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Congresswoman, should Republicans really be surprised the
president won`t join Ted Cruz` pizza party tonight and agree to destroy his
own achievements?

BASS: You know what, if it wasn`t that it really impacted serious policy,
it would be laughable. I guess we have a shadow speakership going on. I
think we should call him Speaker Cruz.

I think that it is really reckless on the part of my Republican colleagues
to begin the year by proposing legislation that you know well in advance is
going to be vetoed. We need to get to the serious business of the American
people.

And as you know, you know, tomorrow, we are going to be voting on
legislation to roll back the president`s policies on immigration. But this
is why I really support the president doing executive orders. Because if
that`s the only way that we are going to get anything done, if that is the
only way we are going to be able to govern the country, then more power to
him.

SHARPTON: Dana, these vetoes would cover key parts of the president`s
legacy from health care to bank reform to immigration. How focused is the
White House on protecting these achievements?

MILBANK: Well, 100 percent focused on it, Reverend. But I think you need
to understand that a lot of this on both sides right now is posturing, Ted
Cruz and his conservatives can get their pizza. I think we should get some
popcorn, because this will all be a show.

Republicans have to go through the motions of proposing all these things,
abolishing Obamacare AND Dodd-Frank, everything else they said they were
going to do. And the president has already signaled OK, you can play that
game, but if it gets to my desk, it`s not going anywhere from there.

It`s almost as if they have to work it out of their system. And then, once
the Republicans have satisfied their base, well, then, they can come to the
table and the president can say, well all right, if I give you the keystone
pipeline, what are you going to give me? And then I can start the horse
trading (ph). But it`s almost like they have to work this out of their
system first, and unfortunately it will take a while.

SHARPTON: But I think what is -- I think what is key about what you`re
saying, Dana, is they could roll it back. They cannot -- they don`t have
the votes to override the veto. So, I hope they enjoy their pizza, but
this can`t go anywhere.

Congresswoman, what is interesting though, is that here, the number of
regular vetoes from the last four presidents. President Reagan did 39
vetoes, President Bush 29 vetoes, President Clinton 36. The second
President Bush did 12. In the six years that President Obama has been in,
he`s only done two vetoes. So before they start all of this irresponsible
and reckless talk, he is way below the last four presidents with vetoes.

BASS: Right, which is exactly why I don`t think that it`s posturing that
is equal. But you know, I think that Dana paints a picture that is
hopeful, frankly. I am hopeful that they will get this out of the system
just like you would do with small children. I`m hoping that they will
settle down and get to the business of governing after they have done all
the symbolic votes. You know, we voted over 50 times to repeal the health
care reform. And so, now we are going to be on the same road with
immigration.

So I am hoping that they get this out of their system, that we`ll actually
be able to work on some legislation together, because that`s what the
American people want and need and expect from Congress.

SHARPTON: Now, Dana, I mentioned that they`re meeting tonight under the
leadership of Senator Cruz. Here`s an agenda that he`s pushing. Just
listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We need to do everything humanly possible to
repeal Obamacare. We should abolish the IRS. We need to audit the federal
reserve. Open up federal lands to exploration to development. Stop the
president`s unconstitutional amnesty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I mean, can the Republicans every unify with such extreme
strands in their party? I mean, who is that guy talking to? Who is the
constituency that he`s relating to here? And how do you get something that
extreme to unite with something that is -- that is moderate and good for
the country?

MILBANK: Well, the party is highly fragmented. Now, it was before,
Reverend Al, but you didn`t necessarily see it because when they didn`t
have unified control of Congress, well, they were unified by their
opposition to all things Obama. Now the question becomes, OK, what is your
alternative? And what are you going to do about it?

And it`s not clear what their agenda is on any number of things. And
that`s what becomes interesting. Now, after whether or not they get this
out of the system, the congresswoman is right, is an open question. It
really gets serious, though, at the end of next month. Are they going to
shut down the department of homeland security to try to roll back the
president`s immigration positions? Are they actually going to put the
nation`s security at risk to make that sort of a political point? That`s a
huge question.

And it`s not clear that they really have things under control. As you
pointed out a moment ago, we now have this ramp group of ultra-
conservatives who are rebelling against the previous group of ultra
concern, so you`re in this strange position where the right hand doesn`t
know what the far right hand is doing.

SHARPTON: And does it, Congresswoman, even worsen as we get closer to 2016
and the elections and the posturing toward how we meet 2015 going into
2016, how we do the extremists become even more bizarre and loud?

BASS: Well, in a way I kind of hope so. But I do have to say that they
have to make a decision. And I do believe that they want to capture the
White House. And so, if they want to capture the White House, they are
going to have to govern. So there`s a part of it that, you know, is a
little appealing, but the part that isn`t is the fact that there`s still
many people in our country that are hurting. There`s a lot of decisions we
have to make to impact people`s lives, and we need to get busy and do that
work. But maybe I want to go find that pizza party, Rev. Maybe go crash
it.

SHARPTON: Well, I don`t think you`ll be helping the American people
crashing that pizza party. But thank you for being here, Congresswoman
Karen Bass and Dana Milbank. Thank you both for your time tonight.

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Breaking news ahead, dramatic new video of the Paris terrorists
exchanging gunfire with police.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

SHARPTON: How this video could help anti-terror efforts here at home.

Also looks like Mitt Romney is trying to self-deport himself right into the
next presidential race. What it means for 2016.

Also, the billion dollar divorce that could get a lot more expensive.

And why does Mike Huckabee have a beef with Beyonce? We`ll talk about it
in conversation nation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Social media community has focused on the horrific massacre in
Nigeria by the terror group Boko Haram. As many as 2,000 appeared dead.
And terrorists are using girls, young at 10, as suicide bomber.

Steve in our facebook page said 2,000 gone is pure savagery. Those who
committed this crime should be dealt with accordingly.

Joseph says we can`t just allow these terrorists to continue to murder
innocent people. Perhaps it is time for the U.N. to put together an
international force.

Coming up, more on a possible investigation on why Nigeria needs or
attention.

But first, please keep the conversation going on our facebook or tweet us
@politicsnation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: We`re back with breaking news on the terror attacks in France.
NBC News reports officials in Turkey were tracking the woman wanted as an
accomplice in the attacks until just moments before she vanished.

They were tracking her cell phone signal but lost it in Syria, just few
hundred yards before an ISIS-controlled town.

Also today, four French Jews killed by -- killed during the standoff at a
kosher market were laid to rest in Israel in a service watched by people
around the world. And tomorrow, the magazine attacked by the terrorists
will release its new issue, printing three million copies in 16 languages.
The cover again shows the Prophet Muhammad.

All this comes as new video emerges of the terrorists exchanging gunfire
with police in the moments after the massacre at the magazine. Here it is.

(VIDEOTAPE PLAYING)

SHARPTON: Dramatic video that`s now being analyzed for clues to the attack
and how to stop the next one.

Joining me now is Jim Cavanaugh, retired ATF agent and MSNBC law
enforcement analyst.

Jim, you`ve been analyzing this video. What strikes you about how the
terrorists move and react to police.

JIM CAVANAUGH, MSNBC ANALYST: Well, how cool they are, Reverend Al. they
are not afraid of the responding police. You know, this is a good message
for law enforcement worldwide. These guys are not afraid of the first
responding police. They have assessed the Paris police. They believe they
can win the initial gun battle. They`re here in the streets. They are
reloading. You see that the passengers, I think that`s the younger one,
Cherif. He has trouble with his rifle. He is probable loaded a magazine
and jammed the first round. When it is feeding, it comes around to get his
brother to help him, puts the magazine on the roof of the car and then he
shows his brother, you know, my weapon is jammed. The brother takes the
rifle, he clears it, you can see a bullet fall to the ground. He ejects
one, gives him back the rifle, and they go back and get in the car.

SHARPTON: But that`s what`s so striking as we watch Kouachi brothers, they
seems so calm. They`re not rushed. They`re taking their time. What does
that tell you?

CAVANAUGH: Yes. It tells me that they`re prepared to die, but it also --
it is a great question because look at their faces, Reverend Al. They`re
still covered with masks. So these are guys prepared to die, but planning
to escape. If they could have stayed and shot it out with the police who
responded, but they wanted to escape. So there was another mission. This
was to be the beginning of a terror campaign. And you can see how they
engage the radio car when it arrived.

SHARPTON: Now, what does this video combine with everything else we know?
Tell you about the planning of this attack.

CAVANAUGH: Well, I think if we look from the front, we go back, we know
there was a witness that saw Coulibaly at the Jewish grocery, the hyper
catcher (ph) a week before all this started. Well, he wasn`t going in
there to start eating kosher food. He was casing the place.

SHARPTON: Coulibaly, who is the one who ultimately did the terrorist
attack at the kosher market was seen casing the play days before.

SHARPTON: You`re right, a week before. And so, that`s very significant
because Boumeddiene, she lives on the 2nd of January. The market is cased,
and now what happens is "Charlie Hebdo" is struck, and you see Coulibaly
sort goes into this, not knowing what to do. She hoot a jogger, a
policewoman, he might have put a bomb out there. He`s hastily making the
videos. If he was going to make videos with all these planning, he could
have made them earlier.

But what happens is likely he was supposed to meet the Kouachi brothers
after "Charlie Hebdo," and that got busted up. So he is kind of doesn`t
really know what to do. And then when they take the hostages Friday
morning, and barricade, he says well, I`ll go to the second planned spa
scene, which was hyper cacher, which they already snaked out for slaughter
and I`ll kill and I will learn from them and I`ll take hostages, too. So I
think we were going to be at the beginning of a terror campaign by the cell
with hyper cacher going to be the second slaughter scene.

SHARPTON: Now, we see the police car back up and the door is open. Is
there anything else officers could have done?

CAVANAUGH: You know, with that side arms, Reverend Al, they really
couldn`t do that. it is a lesson for, of course, all police commanders
know it. But political leaders, you know, radio cars got to have long
guns. You are losing the fight already if the guy gets out with these
police called rifles. You`re already losing with a handgun. And the
officers are You have to have rifle teams that get there quickly. And this
is not time to mount a whole full tactical unit got to be patrol officers
who can get in there quickly that have rifles, so they can engage and
delay. They`ve had a lot of success here, and they`re eggs it on
worldwide.

SHARPTON: Jim Cavanaugh, thank you for your time tonight.

CAVANAUGH: Thanks, Reverend Al.

SHARPTON: Coming up, if Hillary Clinton runs for president, the gloves are
coming off. It`s all on the table, including personal life. What Reince
Priebus is saying tonight?

Plus, why does former FOX host Mike Huckabee have a problem with Beyonce?

And could Mitt Romney really be running for president again? We`re
learning more from behind the scenes tonight. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Breaking news. Federal prosecutors have filed federal cheap
against an Ohio man they say is mentally disturbed and made threats against
House speaker John Boehner. Some reports say the man is a bartender who
wanted to poison the speaker`s drink at a country club. A Boehner
spokesman said Speaker Boehner is aware of the situation and sincerely
thanks the FBI, the capitol police and local authorities in Ohio for their
efforts. We will definitely stay on this story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: It`s not a dream. It`s happening -- again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Mitt Romney is in the middle of a pretty stunning
turnaround.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Mitt Romney almost certainly will make his third bid
for the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Mitt Romney, talking to donors --

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I never thought he could win in 2012, I think this may
be his time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Is Mitt Romney seriously running for president? It started
heating up last week when he told a group of donors, quote, "I want to be
president." But today we`re getting a look behind the curtain, and more
sirens of action. "The Washington Post" says, Romney is moving to
reassemble his campaign team for a, quote, "almost certain 2016 bid." He`s
talked to everyone from his old running mate Paul Ryan to his old opponent
Newt Gingrich. Politico says he expects to make a decision within weeks,
not months. But why is this all happening now? What might have changed?
Why did he say "no" so many times? And all of these hints could really
amount to nothing. There could be other factors at play, but after 2012,
is there a place for Romney in today`s Republican Party?

Joining me now, democratic strategist Angela Rye, and republican strategist
Hogan Gidley. Thank you both for being here tonight.

ANGELA RYE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you, Rev.

HOGAN GIDLEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: Hogan, you have worked for lots of republicans from Mike
Huckabee to Rick Santorum. What is going on with Romney?

GIDLEY: Honestly, Rev, I have no idea. I think he looks across the way
and sees Jeb Bush making some big moves. He knows they`re going to mix,
and match some donors and have some overlap there, so he`s looking to stem
the tide a little bit. That`s all. I don`t know where he goes. Should he
decide to run? This time, I don`t know what state he would win. He`s
never won Iowa, he outspent Mike Huckabee 20 to one. And he lost by nine
points. He outspent Rick Santorum 10 to one, and loss there as well. He
won New Hampshire of course as we all know, but it`s his home state
basically. So, he`s never done well here in South Carolina, home state.
So, I don`t know where he`s going to go from there.

SHARPTON: So, you`re talking, Hogan, like you don`t believe he can win.
Do you think he believes he can win?

GIDLEY: I`m not sure if he believes that. And I don`t speak for Mitt
Romney, obviously, but look the party is not just about the religious right
versus the establishment anymore. There`s a Tea Party faction, there`s a
libertarian wing, there`s a war hawk wing, there`s an Israel wing. And
each of these candidates own separate space in those particular sandboxes.
And the question becomes which one of these candidates can pull from the
other sandboxes to get enough votes to win the nomination. I don`t know
where Mitt Romney`s votes are going to come from especially if Chris
Christie and Jeb Bush run the race. I just don`t see it. Regardless of
whether or not Mitt Romney says and does like he promised, to run right of
Jeb Bush, I just don`t know where his votes come from.

SHARPTON: Angela, Romney is still a player in the party. NBC News just
learned he will speak this week at the RNC meeting. What does that say
about the state of GOP to you?

RYE: It says that they have a lot of gathering to do. I think Hogan just
went into great detail about all the different sandboxes and people that he
would have to galvanize on to his team. If he`s saying that he`s going to
run to the right of Jeb Bush, that means he`s going to try to out-
conservative people like they typically do in a republican primary, and he
got a lot of proving to do. A lot of people still don`t believe him,
whether they were republican, independent or democrats. Because again, as
we know, in the 2012 election, he lost by more than six million votes. So,
he has got a lot of proving to do not only within his own party, but also
to the countries who don`t believe him and it`s not just the 47 percent he
wrote off.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, Hogan, another interesting aspect of this
potential campaign is that Romney wants to make tackling poverty one of the
three pillars of his campaign. That would be a real departure from what he
said in 2012.

RYE: Right.

SHARPTON: Who can forget these moments?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m not concerned about
the very poor. We have a safety net there. If its need to repair, I`ll
fix it.

Alright, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon
government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government
has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitle to
health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I mean, is this making of a new message for Romney? Or did
these kinds of statements leave a bad taste in his mouth? I mean, how does
he convince people, Hogan, that he is a different man than what he was
saying?

GIDLEY: Well, it`s going to be very difficult. And that`s what I`m
saying. I don`t know where his votes come from. I mean, he needs to talk
about poverty. The Republican Party needs to talk about poverty, but I`m
not sure that the person with Romney`s record is the very person to be
talking about poverty. That`s not the standard bearer that our party
necessarily needs at this moment. I`m not saying he`s not going to be
formidable. He`ll have money. He`s got name ID. He has a huge
organization, but we`ve seen this play out. He finished third in 2008 in a
primary. He actually won the nomination obviously in 2012. He lost badly
to Barack Obama. Remember, when he won the nomination, up to four to six
million some estimate show of evangelicals stayed home, and didn`t go vote
for Romney because they weren`t energized by the man. He`s a great guy,
nice man, great family, it`s just really tough for someone like Romney to
galvanize the nation, coming off for the last election where we have so
many missteps and so much trouble.

SHARPTON: Now, Angela, I want to play a clip from the 2014 Netflix
documentary on Romney. I want you to listen carefully to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: And I have looked by the way, at what happens to anybody in this
country who loses as the nominee of their party, who loses the general
election, it become a loser for life, all right? That`s it. It`s over.
And -- and, you know, Mike Dukakis, he can`t get a particular job mowing
lawns, all right?

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, it`s -- we just brutalize -- (inaudible) losses, all right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Is this personal to him, Angela? I mean, is this what we`ve
dealing with?

RYE: Rev, it absolutely is personal, but I want to draw a connection here
that maybe we might have overlooked. I know I certainly did when I read
about this Netflix piece. He said that Mike Dukakis cannot even mow lawns,
which means he is trivializing that job, which means it is very difficult
for someone as elitist as Mitt Romney, to connect with people that may not
be an entire swath of 47 percent, but the folks that are considered to be
the least of these and to demean those jobs and those laborers is terrible.

SHARPTON: There`s arrogance. Those arrogance in those statements.

RYE: That`s exactly the point, Rev. So, even if it`s a personal desire to
win for him, the fact that those personal politics and that personal ego
would trump his ability to connect to those people that matter, that would
not only be a part of the base, but they are the constituents as American
people and he would trivialize those jobs as working-class Americans, that
is a problem.

SHARPTON: But that`s the problem, a lot of his gaffs came from who he was,
came from him ad-libbing. But I want to go before I have to leave, Hogan
to something that I have to raise with you. Governor Chris Christie, today
he made headlines for the state of the state address in New Jersey. Listen
to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I vetoed four tax increases passed by
this body. And I don`t want there to be any mistake in case there is. I
will veto any more income tax increases that come before me. We need to
renew the spirit and the hopes of our state, of our country and our people.
We need a New Jersey renewal, and we need an American renewal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, Christie and Jeb Bush would be the same kind of republican
candidate as Romney. Can all three of them run? Is there enough room for
all three to run in the republican primaries, Hogan?

GIDLEY: That`s the issue. I just don`t know. I mean, everyone tried to
be the anti-Romney last time. Now you`ll going to have anti-Romney people
within the establishment wing of the party. Chris Christie will be in
South Carolina tomorrow, I look forward to seeing him, but the issue for
Chris Christie as I have long said, is not his politics or his policies
that will ultimately sink his campaign or catapult into the nomination.
It`s his personality. Camden, New Jersey is not Camden, South Carolina.
And if he yells at somebody down here, it`s going to be a completely
different reaction if he yells at somebody out there. That`s the issue for
Chris Christie. If he can keep that in check, he`s going to be someone to
watch out for and a formidable candidate as well.

SHARPTON: Angela Rye and Hogan Gidley, thank you both for watching. Give
my regards to Governor Christie tomorrow.

(LAUGHTER)

GIDLEY: Thanks.

SHARPTON: Coming up, why does Mike Huckabee have a big problem with
Beyonce?

Also, the RNC`s new campaign to try and dig up dirt on the Clintons.

And why the price tag on this billion dollar divorce could be going way up.
It`s all ahead on "Conversation Nation."

(COMMERCIAL BREA)

SHARPTON: Time now for "Conversation Nation." Joining us tonight,
HuffPost Live host Alyona Minkovski, democratic strategist Jimmy Williams,
and the Grio`s Zerlina Maxwell. Thank you for all for being here tonight.

ALYONA MINKOVSKI, HUFFPOST LIVE HOST: Thanks, Rev.

JIMMY WILLIAMS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you.

SHARPTON: The right wing has so many problems with President Obama, and
now they have a Beyonce problem. In an interview with "People" magazine,
former FOX News host and former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee compliments
the President and the First Lady on how they raise their daughters, calling
them, quote, "Excellent and exemplary parents in many ways." But then he
says this, quote, "I don`t understand how on one hand they can be such
doting parents and so careful about the intake of everything, how much
broccoli they eat, where they go to school, and yet they don`t see anything
that might not be suitable for either a preteen or a teen in some of the
lyrical content and choreography of Beyonce, who as sort of a regular key
to the door of the White House."

Alyona, has the GOP finally run out of relevant things to criticize?

MINKOVSKI: Can I say that I`m not surprised? I mean, this is coming from
somebody like Mike Huckabee who likes to moralize on everything. And so if
you have to pick one, I think I would rather him moralize over Beyonce
because it`s not going to work and she runs the world, and everyone are
going to still be a fan rather than trying to let`s say, legislate and
moralize over something like abortion and the control that men have over
their bodies.

ZERLINA MAXWELL, THE GRIO: Right.

SHARPTON: I mean, Jimmy, I`m slightly impressed he even knows who Beyonce
is, but most of the world does.

WILLIAMS: Well, I just wonder when he was the governor of Arkansas if he
made his children listen to, outstanding patriots like David Allan Coe and
Ted Nugent. I mean, I`m just wondering, perhaps, you know, look, this is,
if you`re empty, if the tributary is empty, then you`re frosting, you have
nothing to do, right, except you`re thirsty. If you`re attacking Beyonce,
can I suggest that you`ve run out of water and fuel? So, it`s just really
time for the good governor, former governor of Arkansas, the former guy
over at FOX to just be done. It`s really enough.

SHARPTON: But running out of water, Zerlina, he`s really just starting his
2016 campaign. I mean, let`s be serious.

MAXWELL: Well, yes, I mean, we`ve heard this kind of rhetoric from him
before, when he talked about birth control and uncle sugar previously. But
I think that for the most part, Beyonce scares a lot of white men, older
white men, because she is explicit about the fact that she owns her body,
her sexuality is hers, and she chooses to express it and has agency in
doing so. And that scares a lot of folks that don`t want women to be equal
to men.

SHARPTON: Yes. I get that, but also I think you`re looking at the fact
that he wants to go right at the family values thing. There`s a lot of
things Alyona in this -- comply on where Huckabee is going to try to get
his space in the republican run-up. This is not about Beyonce politically
or the president. This is about him distinguishing himself from the pack.

MINKOVSKI: Or trying to. I was going to say, I`ve been to Beyonce
concerts. And there are a lot of older white men that brings their kids
and they seem to be enjoying the concerts very very much, but it`s an odd
strategy. Because if the GOP is trying to recruit a newer, younger, type
of voting demographic, this is certainly something that is not going to
work, and I think it will backfire. And so, it`s kind of grasping its
straws to try to use --

(CROSSTALK)

SHARPTON: If they`re going to reach a younger demographic, that Mike
Huckabee is the one that --

MINKOVSKI: Right. Exactly, that`s fair enough.

WILLIAMS: I mean, what is this? Who would do his inaugural? Minnie
Pearl? And I loved Minnie Pearl, but I mean, seriously, do we need to go
back to the `60s and `70s? Is that the era that he really wants America to
live in.

SHARPTON: For the `50s.

WILLIAMS: Fifties, yes, `30s.

SHARPTON: Let me go to this Zerlina, if Hillary Clinton runs for
president, the gloves will be off in a big way. Everything is on the
table, including personal life. RNC`s Reince Priebus saying today, former
President Bill Clinton`s past is fair game if Hillary runs. Priebus
telling BuzzFeed, quote, "Bill Clinton`s activities are fair game for
Hillary Clinton to answer, absolutely. And the presumption is that she`s
going to benefit from the successes of Bill Clinton, so I think it`s fair
game." Jimmy, what do you think? Is this fair game?

WILLIAMS: I think that the Republican National Committee just reelected
Reince Priebus to another term and they made a really wonderful mistake for
us. Really? I mean, so, we`re going to -- we have a motto at this network
-- lean forward. It`s got to be that RNC and perhaps our good friends over
at FOX, that it`s just relish in the past. Because that`s all they can do.
I mean, if they want to bring back up Vince Foster, and Whitewater, and
Travelgate (ph), I mean, why don`t we just have all the same people that
Dan Burton had testify before the House Oversight Committee come back and
just, when Hillary Clinton becomes president again and she`s going to be
president, by the way. If that`s the case, then I want them to bring all
of them back so they can just bring up every old 25-year-old scandal and
the American people, especially independent voters would be like, why are
we doing this again and again and again? It`s just like a repeat of "dumb
and dumber" every single week coming out of the RNC.

SHARPTON: Zerlina?

MAXWELL: I think it`s interesting that Priebus says that the personal
issues in the Clinton`s past are relevant when in 2012 he said that Mitt
Romney not releasing his tax returns was a question that, you know, the
media needed to stop asking. So I want to say that, if the tax returns
were not relevant for Mitt Romney, what does Bill Clinton`s activities of
25 years ago have to do with Hillary Clinton, who is a different person,
her running for president?

SHARPTON: And my point, Mitt Romney was the candidate. We`re not even
talking about Bill Clinton being the candidate, Alyona?

MINKOVSKI: Right. That`s right. But it`s interesting, too, that they
would focus on the personal rather than say the policies of the Clinton
administration. And both what Clinton did while he was in office, what
Hillary did while she was the first lady. That would seem like the smarter
and stronger way to actually try to --

WILLIAMS: And those were good policies, they worked, didn`t they?
Remember that, the peace time prosperity?

(CROSSTALK)

SHARPTON: -- I mean, they`re only going to start here. It`s smear and then
go to the rest of them, sure.

MINKOVSKI: But that`s also how campaigns work. I`m not going to say it`s
not fair game, because this is what they do. They try to dig up dirt and
drag their opposition through the mud.

MAXWELL: It`s a bit of an unprecedented situation where you have a spouse
who is now running, whereas in most situations, the family is off-limits.
I mean extra-marital affairs are not off-limits, but children and wives,
attacking them personally is usually --

WILLIAMS: But Hillary is never off limit. I mean, think about it, the
Hillary fear, et cetera, et cetera, they never gave her a break, and
they`re not going to give her a break this time.

MINKOVSKI: If it`s a political dynasty, though --

(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)

SHARPTON: The dogs weren`t even off-limits.

WILLIAMS: Right.

SHARPTON: Everyone please stay with me. We`ll be back, imagine cashing a
check, thin about this now, for $975 million, and wanting more.

Plus, we`ll talk about a survival story that could come from a Hollywood
script. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREA)

SHARPTON: We`re back with the panel, Alyona, Jimmy and Zerlina. When is
nearly a billion dollar is not enough? When you`re divorcing one of the
richest -- richest men in the world. Let me put it that way. Three months
ago we told you about how the billion dollar divorce happened. Oil magnate
Harold Hamm, who`s worth about $18 billion agreed to pay his ex-wife Sue
Ann $975 million. And last week, she cashed this check, yes, this is a
real check and she`s not done. She`s planning to appeal, saying she`s
entitled to half the $18 billion empire she helped him build. Zerlina,
would you be okay with the --

MAXWELL: But I would be okay with 9.75 million or you know, $900,000, $9,
I mean, you don`t have to give me a ton of money. I think that I`m
thinking of creative ways in which she can use the $975 million to make the
world a better place.

SHARPTON: She`s going to use it to get lawyers to make her world a better
place.

MAXWELL: Yes, I mean, she`s no short of cash at this moment, so she can
definitely feel very comfortable and hopefully we`ll see some big things
from her in the future.

SHARPTON: But Alyona, a lot of people feel she deserves more. She`s worth
$18 billion. She says she helped him to get there.

MINKOVSKI: It`s the whole thing, it`s mind-blowing to me. Like I can`t
even begin to conceptualize what it would be like to have a check that cost
that much money, that gives you so much money, but sure if she deserves it,
why not still fight for it, but then legally it seems very dubious that you
would be able to try to claim that you need more after you`ve already cash
the check. And it almost makes you start to feel bad for the guy. Because
he just lost $10 billion of his wealth, because oil prices dropped.

MAXWELL: Poor guy.

WILLIAMS: I have no sympathy for this man, but I do hope he has a gay son
who I would not mind dating at some point in time.

(LAUGHTER)

SHARPTON: Jimmy.

WILLIAMS: Seventeen billion dollar is a hell of a lot to inherit. I`ll
take it, brother. I`ll take it.

SHARPTON: Jimmy make me sing all RNB songs.

(LAUGHTER)

Now, to a heart-stopping survival story right out of Hollywood, but this
one happened in Florida. Former NFL player Bob Konrad swam -- he -- for 16
hours he swam after falling off his boat nine miles from land. His boat
hit by a wave, and he toppled overboard. The boat was on autopilot, and it
sailed away. He was left with no life jacket and no radio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB KONRAD, FORMER NFL PLAYER: That was in a real bad situation. And I
made the decision that I was going to start swimming towards shore. I
think I was in the water for 16 hours, 27 miles and I shouldn`t be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Coast guard helicopters flew overhead, and a fishing boat came
within 50 yards of him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KONRAD: A whole bunch of stuff, bit by jellyfish. Right when the sun was
going down I was circled by a shark. Luckily it did one circle around and
left, after sometime, I just said, look, I`m not dying tonight. I`m going
to make it to shore. I`ve got two beautiful daughters. I was hitting that
shore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Alyona, when I saw this, it really touched me with the
determination, talking about his daughters. I have two daughters. I mean,
what was your reaction when you saw this story?

MINKOVSKI: It`s an incredible story and it really tells you what it is to
have the will to live and the will to survive. And you wonder if just
anyone would have been able to make it through, I don`t think I would be --

SHARPTON: Sixteen hours, Zerlina?

MAXWELL: I don`t think so. I mean, it reminds me of the "End of Gravity"
when Sandra Bullock has to just make the decision to live. And I think
there`s something so powerful about that and it just, it repeats that
message that I think Americans need to learn over and over of just
perseverance and determination.

SHARPTON: It`s an amazing story, Jim.

WILLIAMS: It`s the will of man, the will of God, and you just can`t look
at that any other way. I mean, it`s inspiring.

SHARPTON: Very.

SHARPTON: Alyona, Jimmy, Zerlina, thank you for your time.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

MAXWELL: Thanks, Rev.

MINKOVSKI: Thank you.

SHARPTON: When we come back, a crisis in Nigeria that needs more
attention.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Finally tonight, the eyes of the world are starting to turn to
the atrocities in Nigeria which were carried out by the terror group Boko
Haram. Today the U.N. called on the Nigerian government to restore law and
order, and investigate the mass killings that have shocked the world. As
many as 2,000 people are missing, and feared dead after Boko Haram
destroyed a town in the northeast part of the country. And the terrorists
are now using young girls as suicide bombers.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

This 13-year-old girl says she was supposed to be a suicide bomber. The
terrorists told her she would go to heaven, and threatened to kill her if
she refused. But at the market, she was too scared to set off her
explosive vest. And the other girls have been used as walking bombs,
without their knowledge. It`s just barbaric. On twitter nearly 16,000
users have highlighted the most recent massacre by using the #Boko Haram
killed 2,000 people.

Over all since 2009, more than 13,000 Nigerians have been killed by Boko
Haram. Terrorism is unacceptable in all forms. The Paris tragedy was
horrific and senseless, but it`s important that we realize that terrorism
must be fought, no matter where it is. We must be vigilant, that we do not
see terrorism in one country, but overlook it in another. The people of
Nigeria need and deserve our support and attention, as we also give it to
France.

Thanks for watching, I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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