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The Ed Show for Wednesday, March 4th, 2015

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Date: March 4, 2015
Guest: Corey Hebert, Wendell Potter, Terry O`Neill, Emanuel Cleaver, Brad
Woodhouse, E.J. Dionne, Caroline Heldman, Mitchio Kaku

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York, let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Health care, under attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand up, fight back.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, Obamacare hangs in the scales of justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We aren`t asking for a handout just a fair chance.

SCHULTZ: And just in, the justice report on Ferguson.

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Some of those protesters we`re right.



SCHULTZ: And later, retraction demands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The New York Times got snookered by the Benghazi


DAVID BROCK, FOUNDER OF MEDIA MATTERS: The whole premise of it has fallen
apart that Hillary Clinton violated the law here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Clintons have a separate set of roles.

SCHULTZ: Plus, mental gymnastics.

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: And thought me to navigate people`s minds.

MICHIO KAKU, THEORETICAL PHYSICIST: I`ve been fascinated with the nature
of consciousness...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens when a man goes through his own portal?

SCHULTZ: We talked to Michio Kaku about some of the amazing feats of mind


Good to have you with us tonight folks, thanks for watching. Big day at
the Supreme Court, the court heard its third case against the Affordable
Care Act. Conservative think tanks argue there`s a few words in Obamacare
that makes it illegal for the government to issue subsidies in states where
there are federal exchanges. And the wording issue here is very narrow.
It is, "As exchange established by the state."

Now with the court rules against Obamacare we are talking about enrollees
in 34 states loosing their health care, loosing their subsidies, we`re
talking 7.5 million Americans in danger of losing their health care.

Now the decision would only affect low-income Americans, people who buy
their own health care insurance without subsidies could not be affected.
Now the court`s ruling is expected to come out late June or early July.
And, this is really just the latest conservative attempt to tarnish
President Obama`s signature legislation.

Earlier today, tea party activist, they`re out there, elected officials on
the Republican side showing up in front of the Supreme Court with their
typical rhetoric.


REP. LOUIE GOHMERT, (R) TEXAS: It`s important you`re here to protect those
people that don`t know how bad the government controlling their health care
can be.

REP. STEVE KING, (R) IOWA: And that`s all that needs to be asked inside
these chambers, does the wish of the President trump the will of the
people? If that`s the case then we have an emperor not a president.

REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN, (R) TENNESSEE. There`s no example on the face of the
earth where a government-run health care is going to be delivered at a
lower cost and is going to save you money and yield better outcome.


SCHULTZ: Chief Justice John Roberts did not ask a question today during
the hearing but in 2005 he did say this.


JOHN ROBERTS, U.S. CHIEF JUSTICE: I will decide every case based on the
record according the rule of law without fear or favor to the best of my
ability. And I will remember that it`s my job to call balls and strikes
and not to pitch or bat.


SCHULTZ: OK, well if he`s just calling balls and strikes then we`re right
down to this. Is it constitutional for the federal government to hand out
subsidies to Americans so they can get some health care? That`s where we
are, but I think the big mission here is this. Set the table so this
country never has universal health care.

And I bet 90 percent of the American people out there don`t get exactly
what`s being wrangled in front of the Supreme Court but there are 7.5
million Americans out there wondering tonight, hey I did this Obamacare
thing and it`s working out pretty good, now they`re going to take it away
from me?

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, do you trust Chief Justice John Roberts to calls balls and
strikes? Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622, leave a comment at our
blog at We`re going to bring you the results later. We got a
lot of people to talk on this tonight.

The best person we find in Congress on this is Congressman Jim McDermott
who is a doctor. He was there in the Supreme Court today. Congressman,
good to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: What did you hear? What did the Supreme Court say today and how
do you think things went?

MCDERMOTT: Well, I went in pretty optimistic because I have never seen
this case as the one that had any real legitimacy. The questioning of the
judges as it always is, was probative, they we`re poking at both the play
(ph) and the defense by the government. But, basically it was clear that
they we`re not convinced that this was a legitimate attack on Obamacare.

SCHULTZ: So you came away with the sense that these 7.5 million Americans
don`t have anything to worry about?

MCDERMOTT: Well, you can never quite say that Ed. I`m not a lawyer but
from being a doctor and a psychiatrist and watching people for a long time,
I would say that the vote is going to be either five to four or six to
three. I think it will be in favor of Obamacare being continued.

The idea that John Roberts would want his legacy to be, I threw 7 million
people out of health care...


MCDERMOTT: ... is not the kind of thing that makes good sense. You think
about that and I would think it worked pretty hard to find a way to make
this work.

SCHULTZ: You have written that there`s no plan B, that the Republicans to
this day don`t have anything to replace it if that ruling were to come down

MCDERMOTT: That`s actually correct. There is -- they talk about silly
things. They talk about the COBRA Plan. Now, COBRA works if you lose your
job you can buy your own insurance maybe for 18 months...


MCDERMOTT: ... at the full cost. Well, most of the people that were --
these 7 million people we`ll be throwing out are people that already have
subsidies. They won`t be able to...


MCDERMOTT: ... pay at full cost.

SCHULTZ: I`ll tell you what the country`s not paying attention to, and
that is these folks who are close to retirement, who are kind of working
part-time jobs or two jobs from the ages of 58 to 64, they`re on Obamacare,
they`re low income, and they are really being helped by this until they go
to the next government opportunity, that would be Medicare. That`s where a
lot of people are affected. And it`s really an attack on the elderly in a
sense as I see it.

And the mindset of the Republicans is, well, is it going to be the will of
the President or the will of the people? Excuse me, Barack Obama was
elected twice. We had a vote on this, it passed the legislative body.

But in the big picture, if they don`t have plan B, do you think that this
court ruling would set the table to make it hard for America to get
universal health care someday?

MCDERMOTT: No, I think if this court case comes down, we will move
directly to a single payer system. We will move in that direction because
the American people recognize that in every other industrialized country in
the world, they have health insurance. And they`re saying, this is what we
have and we`re going to make it work. If the Republicans succeed in
dragging it down, there will be a push from the people which brought
Medicare to us once before...


MCDERMOTT: ... and you`ll see the same thing happen for everybody.

SCHULTZ: All right, we`ve got a lot of voices on this tonight. Congress
Jim McDermott, good to have you with us, I appreciate your time.

MCDERMOTT: Good to be here.

SCHULTZ: Let me bring in Dr. Corey Hebert, professor at LSU Health Science
Center. Also with us tonight, Wendell Potter of the Center for Public
Integrity, and Terry O`Neill, President of the National Organization of

Terry, you first, women would really be affected if this were to rule
against Obamacare. If the Supreme Court went that way, a lot of women
would be affected, correct?

And that`s because women cluster and they`re very over represented in low
income, low wage work.

You know, 9 million women nationwide are eligible to get Obamacare with
subsidies. They haven`t all signed up for, but that`s 9 million
nationwide. 7 million of those 9 million live in the 34 states that are
now at risk because of this Supreme Court...


O`NEILL: ... case. And fully half of those 7 million are women of color.

So, this is real attack on the financial well-being on the economic
security of those...

SCHULTZ: No doubt.

O`NEILL: ... families that -- from those women.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Potter, where`s the insurance industry on this? They can
lose a bunch of customers.

absolutely could. In fact, they filed a, brief with the court, Mica`s (ph)
brief that is very telling. And in fact, Justice Sotomayor made a
reference to some of the comments made in that brief.

She noted, and this is actually what would happen, that if the justice
says, go and side with the challengers here, the plaintiffs, it would set a
motion, a despiral (ph) in those states that would be affected. And that
is two-thirds of the country.

In other words, the insurance market for -- in the private -- in the
individual market would absolutely collapse. It would not be just the 7
million people who are newly insured, but everybody who has coverage on the
individual market in those states.

SCHULTZ: So this is a real gut check for the Supreme Court if they want to
help Americans who have elected, re-elected the President of the United
States, who made it the focal point of his campaign both times.

Dr. Hebert, Louisiana, no doubt, is a state at risk. What would this mean
for low income patients in your state?

eviscerate Obamacare as we know it in the country, let alone, just

We know that so many millions of patients have gotten care. For the first
time in 10 to 15 years, they`ve actually gotten health care. And we know
that if this comes down to a tie vote and John Roberts has to break the
tie, and he sides with those plaintiffs, it would be egregious.

I mean, we would know beyond the shadow of a doubt that partisanship has
played a huge part in denying the health care, direct patient care to
America. If that is the case, it`s going to hurt the most -- the people
that love America the most which is the workingmen and that is

SCHULTZ: Now, Mr. Potter, these states could fix the problem by setting up
their own exchange. But would that take a tremendous amount of resource in
political wouldn`t it?

POTTER: It would. It would take some time too because, keep in mind, it
took some time for the federal government to build the system in the first
place and it took quite a bit of time for the states that are operating
their own exchanges to get it up and running. So it cannot be done
overnight. It would take some time and resources and you would have to
have a political will to do that. And I`m just not sure that -- in these
red states that that could be pretty -- that can be done in any short

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Terry, is this the birth of activism? I mean, we have
seen a full-throated attempt to get rid of Obamacare from Day 1 and the
activism that has gone on here -- I just have a feeling that it would reach
a fever pitch if the Supreme Court would have go down in this road.

O`NEILL: I do. And in fact, I think one of the casualties of the wrong
decision by the Supreme Court will be the integrity and the legitimacy of
the court itself. I think people will rise up.

You know, there are millions of people that now have health insurance that
didn`t and they have it because of Obamacare. They will lose it if they
don`t get those subsidies because they`re in the 34 states. There will be
an uprising, you know.

And I think the Supreme Court really needs to understand that when it steps
out in front of the will of the American people, and the reality is, people
like the Affordable Care Act. It`s working. It`s working for them. And
when the Supreme Court yanks it away, I think there will be very, very
severe consequences.

SCHULTZ: It will throw people further down the economic ladder. There`s
no question about that. And of course, the numbers would be reversed
because the numbers are clearly undeniable.

Dr. Hebert, what would be a solution if they do rule against Obamacare?
Where do we go from here? What if they say no subsidies, it`s

HEBERT: Yeah. Well, I`ll tell you what. They`ve already said that they
have no plan B. The only thing that we could do is reverse the entire
trend and start the downward spiral of health care in America. I mean, I
will be the leader in marching in the streets if this were to occur because
what I have seen in my practice -- and I`ve talked to doctors all across
United States, is that we have finally decrease the uninsured. We have
finally decided that people that don`t have insurance and the...


HEBERT: ... poor people matter. And if we go back and say that they don`t
matter then that is unacceptable once again.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Potter, what`s the next move if they do strike it down?

POTTER: You know, I think Congressman Mcdermott is right. I think there
would be a lot of support for it, and looking at what would happen with the
single-payer system. This would be absolutely chaotic throughout the
country and I think it would be unleashing movements.

And I think it is correct that a lot more people like this law, I think in
many ways the Republicans are deluding themselves into thinking that is not
as popular as it is.

SCHULTZ: And the cases that are being brought in front the Supreme Court
that are arguing this are lame. I don`t know how else to put it. They`re
the most extreme of those obscure cases. It`s the -- you know, you can
make this stuff up if you`re conservative and you don`t like Obamacare.

Dr. Hebert, Mr. Potter and also Terry O`Neill, great to have you with us
tonight. I appreciate it.

POTTER: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Answer our questions at the bottom of the screen. Share your
thoughts with us on Twitter. Like us on Facebook too, all that good stuff,
you know how it is.

Coming up, fresh reaction to the Justice Department`s report on the
Ferguson case. And later, we`re going to talk to the Clinton camp about
the continuing criticism of Hillary`s e-mails and yes, there are subpoenas.
We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And we are back and thanks for watching tonight.

Earlier today, the Justice Department announced that it will not pursue
federal civil rights charges against Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.
And in November, grand jury chose not to indict Wilson. It doesn`t mean
the Ferguson Police Department is off the hook.

In a second separate report, the Department of Justice concluded the
Ferguson Police Department routinely engages in racially biased practices.
Between 2012 and 2014, the DOJ found racial bias against African-Americans
in court cases, traffic stops and use of force including dog bites.

African-Americans accounted for 93 percent of people arrested. It`s
important to note African-American make up to 67 percent of the Ferguson

Here is how Attorney General Eric Holder summed it up.


HOLDER: Our investigation showed that Ferguson police officers routinely
violate the Fourth Amendment in stopping people without reasonable
suspicion, arresting them without probable cause, and using unreasonable
force against them.


SCHULTZ: Moments ago, Bob McCulloch, the prosecuting attorney for the St.
Louis County had this to say about the DOJ`s report on Darren Wilson.


BOB MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS CO. MO. PROSECUTOR: I don`t feel any need to feel
vindicated by anything. I will note that, you know, they -- and they did a
very thorough job. Everything in that report as I said was available to
them and jurors (ph) on November 24th. So, you know, what that, you know,
it took this time, I assume to prepare the report to have that finished but
there aren`t real information -- there is -- any information that we didn`t
know about.

Yes, we took a lot of criticism from a lot of people and it was unwanted
criticism but, you know, that`s a, you know, I have a job to do. My
people, I have a job to do. We did that job and if it -- if there are some
criticism that comes with it, it does.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, also
with us Michael Eric Dyson, Professor, MSNBC Political Analyst and of
course Professor at Georgetown University.

So, that last sound bite gentleman, they know how the hell they operate
their department and they weren`t going to do anything different about it.
Congressman, your reaction to the story.

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER, (D) MISSOURI: I think it`s tragic and I think that
people around this country ought to read the report. The more people are
familiar with what was actually in the report and what the DOJ found, the
more people will realize that we still have a lingering problem on the
basis of skin color.

Think about this, the e-mails that were found that refer to the President
of United States as a chimpanzee. There was another e-mail dealing --
suggesting that Michelle Obama was in some kind of tribal dance. There`s
another e-mail that talk about black people and welfare. I mean I think

SCHULTZ: So, why do those people still have a job? I don`t know if do

CLEAVER: Well...

SCHULTZ: You know.

CLEAVER: Look, if -- one of the great cooperation of our country G.E. for
example had a CEO, who proceeded over the company when a report that was
devastating came out, talking about how horrible it was. I can tell the
stock holders and the board will get rid of them and quickly. And I think
some think has to take place in Ferguson.

SCHULTZ: You know, I find it hard to believe it all starts with the stop
doesn`t Dr. Dyson. I mean it start with the stop on the street. You`re
going to tell me that the police chief, and the captains, and the
lieutenant, and the sergeants didn`t know these numbers?

DYSON: Right, of course they did and the problem is it`s systemic. It
does begin with the stop but it doesn`t stop there. It`s reflected as the
congressman talked about in the very nature of the system itself. If you
got people sending e-mails back in forth in the police department of
Ferguson referring to the President as a chimpanzee, saying that he won`t
keep his job four years because no black man does, talking about Michelle
Obama in a tribal dance as kind of reunion then, you know, you got -- at
the very least racial bias.

But then when you look at the stops that were being made, its public
funding at the expenses of the poorest citizens of Ferguson. They were
funding that entire...


DYSON: ... community and especially the police department by stopping
black people and then making them go to court and pay outrageous fines.
And as result of that you had both an economic and systemic effort going on
as well as individual bias. And that double whammy is horrible and to the
congressman`s point. Looks at the woman who had to resign, Sister Amy from
Sony after e-mails were leaked.


DYSON: And they weren`t even directly attributable to all of the people at
the top but she had to go as a result of that. So, I think the Congressman
is absolutely right.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, how do you fix this?

CLEAVER: Well, first of all I think that the State of Missouri is going to
have this to perhaps step in. But before we get to that I think that the
Ferguson mayor, and city council and police, chief of department must sign
a consent degree. They need to say we`re guilty and tell us what we need
to do for correcting the problems.

If they don`t sign the consent degree they`re going to be taken to court.
And it`s going to be one of the most shameful court sessions in the history
of the country because of the dirty linen of that police department, and
that community for that matter, will be bought in from the public. Think
about this, they have a debtor`s prison in Ferguson because if you can`t
pay those unfair...

DYSON: Fines.

CLEAVER: ... fines for being stopped you end up going to jail when they
stop you and you have a warrant after your arrest, That`s debtor`s prison.

SCHULTZ: Well, we all know the actions of the governor of Missouri
throughout this entire ordeal. Do you think Congressman he`ll be
cooperative at this point and be progressive and move forward for change?

CLEAVER: I think the governor will. I think he may have made missteps
earlier on but I believe that this report -- he`s a former attorney general
for the state.


CLEAVER: He`s a former attorney general for the state.


CLEAVER: And I think when this report crosses his desk. I think he`s
going to realize that he`s going to have to use of the power his officer.
And I think that Jay Nixon will do that.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Dyson, what the people do with this numbers with this report?

DYSON: Yes, the Congressman is far more optimistic that I am. I think Jay
Nixon displays the kind of indifference and disingenuous distancing from
the problem that is part of the symptom here of what we got to confront --
so with the people (ph), this is number one. Understand that the
Department of Justice had a much higher burden approve to me. So when
McCullough takes a kind of consolation from the findings. That`s not true.
He had much more evidence at hand to prove that they could at least go to
trial to trial Darren Wilson.

Number two, we`ve got to lower the burden of the Department of Justice.
Eric Holder talked about this already. We got to find to way when we can
accuse people of hate crimes without meeting such a high burden. And then
thirdly the people of Ferguson have to make sure that they vote to put in
prosecutors, and mayors and other political representatives who represent
the interest of the majority of the people there and not a narrow sliver of

SCHULTZ: And do you think will happen?

DYSON: ... who will.

SCHULTZ: And do you think will happen?

DYSON: Well of course.


DYSON: Yeah, I think that mobilization of people on the ground for voting
is important. But a social movement is growing out to Ferguson and I don`t
think it`s going to stop now.

SCHULTZ: All right gentlemen.

CLEAVER: It`s not going to stop.

SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver
and Dr. Michael Eric Dyson. Appreciate your time on this.

Coming up, new conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton`s e-mails, they
won`t let it go. This is going to be around for a while.

Plus, a huge scientific break through, a paralyzed woman flies a fighter
jet simulator with only her thoughts. Dr. Michio Kaku joins us to talk
about the science of mind control. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Senate Republican failed to
override President Obama`s Veto of the Keystone XL pipeline this afternoon.
Their effort fell short, the override receive 62 votes and of course they
need 67 to pass.

Eight of the nine Democrats who voted for the bill in January joined with
Republicans on this vote, the 9th Joe Donnelly of Indiana did not vote.
Senator John Hoeven of North Dakota said last week that the Republicans
could attach Keystone to the upcoming highway bill in an effort to past it.
It`s all about horse trading isn`t it?

Lindsey Graham is doing an about-face on his comments about Democratic
leader in the House and Nancy Pelosi at a private fundraiser following
Prime Minister Netanyahu`s speech to Congress. Graham commented on Leader
Pelosi`s reaction, "Complete disgust, if you can get through all the
surgeries. There`s disgust."

Well, the comment quickly drew criticism as a cheap and sexist shot at the
Congresswoman. The Senator then apologized calling it a very poor attempt
at humor.

And a big fine on the highest seas, check this out. Seattle Seahawks owner
Paul Allan says he`s unearthed a World War II battleship. He`s research
team. I didn`t even know he had research team. They discovered the wreck
of Japanese battleship on March 1st while searching the waters off the
Philippine Islands. The ship was sunk by American forces in 1944 during a
World War II battle. Allan`s spent over eight years searching for the

Stick around Rapid Response Panel coming up in the Ed Show. We`ll be right

JANE WELLS, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Jane Wells with your CNBC Market Wrap.

You know, nobody spend money like Paul Allan, nobody. And some people were
losing money today on the stock market. They pulled back again.

The DOW falls triple digits, off 106 points. The S&P sheds 9, and the
NASDAQ is off 12.

Private sector job growth was little weaker than expected last month.
Payroll processor ADP says companies added 212,000 jobs in February. But
that was 8,000 below estimate.

And McDonald`s still retooling that menu (inaudible) chicken raised, free
of antibiotics used to treat humans. It will also switch to hormone-free
milk. Just don`t change the fries.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We have breaking news. Just
moments ago, a House Committee issued subpoenas to the State Department to
dive deeper into the New York Times article about Hillary Clinton`s
personal e-mails.

A short time ago, Congressman Trey Gowdy explained his reasoning for
further action.


REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: We are going to send additional legal
recourse to the State Department, but we`re also going to need to send it
to her, because she`s the keeper of the record.


SCHULTZ: So subpoenas have been issued. A new report from the Associated
Press finds Clinton had her own computer server for official e-mails in her
home in Chappaqua, New York.

Now earlier today, David Brock, founder of Media Matters said he wants the
New York Times to issue a correction.


BROCK: The story is wrong, it`s based on a false premise. The reporter
seems to be digging his heels in and not giving his opinion that Hillary
Clinton broke the law. But they don`t have any independent legal authority
that we can see to make that case. So I think the article was really
sloppily done.


SCHULTZ: Brock says this is all about Benghazi.


BROCK: Let`s not forget that the real story here is that you`ve got a
dying Benghazi investigation on Capitol Hill. There are people trying to
breathe new life into it.


SCHULTZ: Conservatives are convinced of a cover up. Some are even
suspicion of the timing of the article. Rudy Giuliani says it works in
Clinton`s favor.


FRM. MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI, NEW YORK CITY: Excuse me for being a little
cynical, but it`s very early. She hasn`t announced yet. Is it the time to
get it out?

Normally, a story like that, you`d save for the day she announced.



SCHULTZ: Let`s go to Brad Woodhouse to tonight. He`s the president of
American Bridge 21st Century and former DNC communications director.

What do you make of this? We`ve got subpoenas. Where there`s Clintons,
there`s subpoenas. I mean, that`s what they`re going to be saying. That
means the pile on is starting. Your reaction.

on has started. But I`ll tell you what, Ed this is about Benghazi. I
mean, everyone, who could read that New York Times story knows this story
was shut to the New York Times by the Republicans on the Benghazi Committee
in the House.

They have not found anything to attack Hillary Clinton as it relates to
Benghazi, a smoking gun that`s already...

SCHULTZ: So what the Times do? Is it Times -- you know, make a correction
as Barack has asked for?

WOODHOUSE: Well look, I don`t think the Times is probably going to make a

SCHULTZ: Why not if they`re wrong?

WOODHOUSE: Well look, the reporter, the day after the story ran or the day
the story ran, you know, he started going to other media outlets and trying
to find a justification for his claim that she may have broken the law.
His own source in that story backtracked later on that day and said, the
law at best is ambiguous or amorphous.

And so, the real thing here is you have Trey Gowdy, Benghazi Committee,
make that dead-end after dead-end after dead-end. And they had these e-
mails, these e-mails -- the fact that these private e-mails were already
public years ago...


WOODHOUSE: ... and said, you know what, this might make an interesting
story. This might be a chink in her armor. And they pitched it. And the
New York Times didn`t do...

SCHULTZ: It`s almost 20 years later, now Hillary has her vast right-wing

WOODHOUSE: Well, and look, I don`t want to go that far. But the truth
here is, is that the Republicans in the House have pledged -- I mean they
haven`t pledge. But you know that their whole effort around Benghazi is to


WOODHOUSE: ... Hillary Clinton down. They`ve run out of ammunition, and
this was last bullet in the chamber.

SCHULTZ: Change your campaign strategy at all?

WOODHOUSE: Well, you know, we`ll see. I mean, I think as they address
these issues, I think, you know, she`ll need to be transparent. She`ll
have to -- she`ll get these questions.

SCHULTZ: Should she come out and talk about it?

WOODHOUSE: Well, I think...

SCHULTZ: I mean, she didn`t talk about it last night when she`s at Emily`s
List Convention. I mean, does she need to address this, you think?

WOODHOUSE: Well look, I don`t think anyone would`ve expected her. This is
the 30 year anniversary or celebration of Emily`s List. It would`ve been
an inappropriate place...

SCHULTZ: I agree.

WOODHOUSE: ... for her to bring this up. Look, she`s not a candidate yet.
If she runs for office, she`ll have to talk to the media. She`ll have to
answer these questions.

SCHULTZ: Brad Woodhouse, always a pleasure, good to have you with us.
Let`s bring in...


SCHULTZ: You bet. You bet. Let`s bring in E.J. Dionne, MSNBC
contributor, Washington Post Columnist. Also with us tonight, Caroline
Heldman, Professor of Politics at Occidental College.

All right, E.J., what do you make of the subpoenas? Where does this take

E.J. DIONNE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, on the one hand, it`s very
clear if the Republicans could, they would keep the Benghazi hearing open
until about 2025. And, you know, and they want to keep this story running.
And they have something kind of interesting here.

You know, what`s interesting here? Well, that she never used the State
Department e-mail address that used to be common for Secretaries of State.
It`s become less common since.

There`s a question about the law. It does not appear that the relevant law
actually took...


DIONNE: ... effect until after she was Secretary of State.

SCHULTZ: These subpoenas are about possible new information, don`t you
think? I mean they`re looking for the Benghazi, they`re looking for this,
a new smoking gun, or something that has not been revealed.

DIONNE: Right. In my hope and my sense is, that to the extent of their e-
mails they didn`t get, I think she should just given them to them...


DIONNE: ... because I think, when you look at Benghazi, there hasn`t been
a smoking gun. You can raise all kinds of questions about this or that,
but nothing has really implicated horror in any negative way.


DIONNE: So let`s get this out of the way.

SCHULTZ: All right, how did she handle it Caroline? I mean, professor,
what -- how should she address this? If she does, does it end it? Does
she -- I mean, her support for the campaign is not going to be in question.
I mean, I think loyal Democrats and progressives are going to know what
this is all about. But should she address it?

she should address it by putting it to bed, by getting a third-party who
she can trust, who can look at their private e-mails and her professional
e-mails on this e-mail account. She has to address it because it has
become a scandal. Even though if you look at the timeline, there is no
factual basis. She did not break the law nor did she even break the norm
for the office, Kerry is the first to do this.

And I`m glad we`re having national conversation about archiving materials
at the highest level but she -- this is just political and had nothing to
do with facts (ph).

SCHULTZ: Why do you think she did it Caroline, why do you think she did it

HELDMAN: The only clue that we`ve gotten is a staffer who gave an
interview who said that she was only allowed one e-mail on her secure
blackberry so that -- she put her professional and her private together. I
would love to hear her explanation but that`s a perfectly reasonable
explanation to me.

SCHULTZ: Well, the right-wingers are saying that this compromise national
security. I mean, that`s where they`re going with it E.J.

DIONNE: Well, I think that, you know, if there -- that is the one place
where she could clearly be vulnerable if that is the case. If she took e-
mail of a classified nature on an unclassified computer that`s a problem
but we don`t have any evidence for that yet. I mean, I think one of the
things we learned in Clinton`s scandals going back a long way is that a lot
of stuff comes out ahead of the facts, and indeed a lot of stuff that comes
out has nothing to do with the fact.


DIONNE: So it`s all speculation that quickly gets -- treated as facts.

SCHULTZ: You know...

DIONNE: ... but I think the national security question is a legitimate
question and she should answer it, and again, it has to be put to bed

SCHULTZ: Who`s Trey Gowdy? I mean, if you go out on the street, you ask
people across the country, do you know who Trey Gowdy is? Absolutely, this
Congressman from -- this is his grandstanding. I mean, he`s the chairman
of the select committee on Benghazi and his made his perspective crystal

DIONNE: Well, I think that, you know, you could ask (inaudible) a lot of
the people in the impeachment committee of Bill Clinton too. There were
people who made names for themselves during that investigation.

But, you know, reality is what reality is. These guys want to keep it
going. I think stonewalling a committee like this only place into their
hands especially when -- at least as far as I can tell...


DIONNE: ... there`s not much to hide here.

SCHULTZ: All right. Caroline, you`re in the ear of Hillary Clinton. You
say that she has to address it. Tonight, tomorrow, next week, Sunday
shows, where? What platform?

HELDMAN: Well, I would find an independent party first, one that is
reputable. And I would say that she should do it pretty quickly because
the timing of this means it won`t at all affect the general election. It
probably won`t affect the primary. And it`s a lot of smoke without fire so
I don`t think it should affect the period, but she needs to address it
certainly before she announces and...


HELDMAN: ... and we expected to announce in April.

SCHULTZ: And of course stories like this are prime examples as to why
Hillary Clinton has delayed her official announcement for president, don`t
you think?

HELDMAN: I would very much agree. This is going to be a witch-hunt
election. It`s the only thing I think -- the sexism is the only thing that
will keep it interesting.

SCHULTZ: All right, great to have both of you with us. E.J. Dionne and
Caroline Heldman, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

DIONNE: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up -- you bet. Coming up, the science of mind control
takes a hugely leap forward. We`ll tell you about amazing advancements,
changing the world as we know it. Now, does this mean I could quarterback
in the Super Bowl?

We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: OK. Here we go. Two-minute drill tonight, Wacky Racist. You`ve
heard of the SpongeBob Squarepants 400 Avenue. Oh yeah, it`s going to take
place on May 9th at the Kansas Speedway. What`s it all about? Well,
NASCAR says the deal with Nickelodeon was going to help them reach a
younger demographic. A custom version of the sea sponge is set to appear
at the race. NASCAR previously hosted the SpongeBob 300 back in 2004.

Next up, a game and its A-Rod, Alex Rodriguez made his spring training
debut today. In his first big league game in almost 17 months following a
season-long suspension for the use of PEDs. A-Rod admitted before the
game, "Little nervous about facing the fans again."

He was greeted with a nice hand from the crowd in Tampa, oh there`s nothing
like starting over. The 39-year-old a single, he was one for three at the

And finally, pitched perfect. Now get this, Minnesota Vikings said Coach
Mike Zimmer is heading to Texas to make a personal pitch. Will you please
come back and play? He`s talking about running back Adrian Peterson.

In the first face to face contact, team officials have had with Peterson
since his suspension, so the Vikings are going to hope that the star
running back is going to say, yeah, I want to come back to your team in
September. But wait a minute, there might be some other plans. Yahoo
Sports is reporting Peterson has a wish list of team he is interested in.
I mean, the Cardinals, the Colts, the Cowboys, the Chargers and the
Buccaneers. They`re all potential candidates.

Peterson has not requested a trade but he is keeping his options open.
Peterson has been vocal about this stream relationship with the team in the
wake of child abuse charges. He told ESPN recently he`s uneasy about
things that took place within the organization.

There`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stick with us. We`ll be
right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Finally tonight, all week MSNBC is
exploring "7 Days of Genius". It`s a series looking at the people, ideas
and innovations changing the world.

This week the Pentagon`s advance research division announced an amazing
breakthrough in the science of mind control. A 55-year-old quadriplegic
woman was able to fly an F-35 fighter jet simulator using only her
thoughts. The possibilities of this type of technology are endless and
closer than you think.


JANICE RAND, ACTRESS: What does you telepathic mind tell you now?

SCHULTZ: Mind control isn`t just science fiction. Dr. Michio Kaku says it
could become a reality.

DICAPRIO: Building a dream from your memory is the easiest way to lose you
grasp on what`s real and what is a dream.

LAURENCE JOHN FISHBURNE III, ACTOR: How would you know the difference
between the dream world and the real world?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These aren`t the droids you`re looking for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These aren`t the droid we`re looking for.

SCHULTZ: In the future Kaku says interest, abilities, and memories could
be implanted in our brains.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You erased your identity and implanted a new one.

ELLEN PAGE, ACTRESS: How could I ever acquire enough detail to make them
think that it`s real?

SCHULTZ: The internet will be replace by the brain net where you can
convey emotions and memories rather than just text.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missile guide, that kind of thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their going to be able to find right into the old noon.


SCHULTZ: MRI scanners could track brain activity as well. Computers could
connect to our minds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we`re doing here Mr. Parish (ph) is actually
creating a map through brain.

WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Ladies and gentlemen if you will look right here.

KATE WINSLET, ACTRESS: Everything we think of what makes up a person,
thoughts, emotions, history, all wiped away.

SCHULTZ: We could explore space like never before with mind control

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So how long do we plan to stay on Mars?


SCHULTZ: According to Kaku the future means new ways to use or brains.

ROWN WITT, ACTOR: There is not spoon.

REEVES: There is no spoon.


SCHULTZ: And Dr. Mitchio Kaku joins us live in studio tonight. He`s book
"Future of the Mind" was New York Times best seller. It`s out on paper
back and selling out everywhere, gosh you`re drawing the crowds,

MICHIO KAKU, POREFESSOR OF PHYSICS, CUNY: Well, thank you, you know, we`re
entering the golden age of neuroscience, politicians, the average person.
They`re getting wind of it (ph), what`s happening in the laboratory looks
like science fiction.

SCHULTZ: I bet there`s people out there watching right now saying come on,
really? What are the possibilities here?

KAKU: Well, telepathy, telekinesis, moving objects with the mind,
recording memories uploading memories, photographing a dream. These are
things that we could actually do in the laboratory. In fact my colleagues
Stephen Hawking who is totally paralyzed, we`ve now hooked his brain to a
computer. He mentally now communicates with the laptop computer.

And in the future when you walk into a room you will mentally turn on the
lights, mentally surf the web, do a dictation, calls for the call maybe
even drive the car by remote control all mentally.

SCHULTZ: So, in exploration of space this would reduce the human risk
would it not?

KAKU: That`s right, these are called surrogates. That is robot
astronauts, they go the moon while you seat in your hot tub, in your living
room, guiding this robot on the moon, reducing the cost of men space travel
by factor of 10 because it`s life-support that cost so much money.

SCHULTZ: How far are away from this?

KAKU: Well, in Japan already they`ve hooked workers to ASIMO the robot so
that by thinking you can actually make ASIMO the robot start move. And in
the classroom we can actually get surrogate that sits in your chair when
you`re sick with your T.V. picture there and you can see the teacher, the
teacher can see you. You will never ever miss a day of class because your
robot surrogate is setting in you chair with your picture -- I mean your
three-dimensional picture right there.

SCHULTZ: So what is life on earth like 30 years from today?

KAKU: It`ll be much more convenient because we will mentally control
things without having to use to a mouse, with having to use a keyboard.
Already people who are totally paralyzed with spinal cord injury can have
exoskeletons, they can operate household appliances, operate their
wheelchair, surf the web, do e-mail, write e-mail mentally. This has
already been done in the laboratory.

SCHULTZ: So I never have to vacuum then, right? You can just think that
stuff in.

KAKU: And, the soccer game this summer. Remember the guy who kicked the
soccer ball starting the game? He was totally paralyzed. He`s
quadriplegic. At Duke University the put a chip in his brain, connected
the chip to an exoskeleton and he kicked the soccer ball.

SCHULTZ: So, where is the human satisfaction in that? I mean if you
physically do it yourself obviously there`s a lot of adrenaline and such
stuff as that and the thrill of knowing that you`ve done it. Wouldn`t that
be somewhat absent?

KAKU: Well, things that are dirty dangerous and dull that is, for example
going into a fire -- raging fire. Or there`s a building collapse it`s
very, very dangerous. Why not send robots and then that are mentally
controlled by firemen or policemen.

SCHULTZ: OK, so education now. Are we going to be able to download a
college degree into someone`s head?

KAKU: Well, we cannot do that yet. But last year in animals we can
actually record the memory of an animal learning a feat, reinsert the
memory back in and boom they remember.

SCHULTZ: There`s hunting dog in the world in right.

KAKU: That`s right. Next will be...

SCHULTZ: Or watchdog for that matter.

KAKU: Next will be a brain chip for Alzheimer`s patients, Alzheimer`s
patient instead of wondering the street not knowing who they`re. Well,
push a button and the memories will come flooding into their hippocampus.

SCHULTZ: What this do for Alzheimer`s, what this do for medical research?

KAKU: It`s going to be a game changer. Mental illness has been black box
facing us for millennia. The bible even mentions mental illness. But now
we can actually see how the brain is missed wired under for example
schizophrenia. The left part of the brain generates voices. But the front
part for brain is unaware of this in schizophrenic.


KAKU: They`re talking themselves without their permission.

SCHULTZ: OK, so could this medical technology be used to clear someone`s

KAKU: Well, we cannot do that. There are certain drugs that take off the
high extremes of bad memories. OK, so there is a drug which will make
certain memories that are traumatic more manageable by knocking off the top
of these memories.

SCHULTZ: And Dr. Kaku you`re in Philadelphia tomorrow.

KAKU: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: All right, congratulation, thanks for joining us tonight. I
appreciate it so much. More information on the "7 Days of Genius" series,
log on to

That`s the Ed Show...


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