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PoliticsNation, Friday, March 13th, 2015

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Date: March 13, 2015
Guest: E.J. Dionne, Lawrence Ross, Chelsea Davis, Abby Huntsman, Jimmy
Williams, Seema Iyer

REV. AL SHARPTON, HOST: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you for
tuning in.

We start tonight with breaking news, a guilty plea from the armed
intruder who got deep into the White House. Omar Gonzalez could spend up
to a year-and-a-half in prison, and will stay behind bars until he`s
sentenced this summer.

In a string of high-profile scandals plaguing the agency, this one has
always stood out. Authorities had numerous chances to stop him. Last
July, police arrested Gonzalez in Virginia with 11 guns in his car. He had
seven loaded magazines and map showing the White House. Officers warned
the Secret Service.

A month later, agents stopped Gonzalez outside the White House with a
hatchet. They didn`t find anything in his car, and they let him go. And
it was just two weeks later that Gonzalez broke in, hopping the White House
fence and sprinting inside with a hatchet and a knife. He passed a
stairwell to the first family`s bedrooms, and he made it all the way to the
East Room before getting tackled.

In the end, this blunder, along with embarrassments involving
prostitutes and drunk agents, forced the director to step down. The new
director came in promising change.


JOSEPH CLANCY, SECRET SERVICE DIRECTOR: We`ve got training in place.
We`ve got an integrity board in place. We`ve got a table of penalties in
place to try to address those types of issues so that we`re consistent.


SHARPTON: But now Director Joseph Clancy is facing the first big
scandal of his own. Two high-ranking agents were just reassigned after
drinking and crashing their work car into a White House barricade. Clancy
did a top-to-bottom review when he started, but is today`s Secret Service
any better than it was when he took over? That`s the question.

Joining me now are Jonathan Capehart from "The Washington Post" and
Jim Cavanaugh, MSNBC law enforcement analyst. Thank you both for being



SHARPTON: Jim, here`s the arsenal police found on Gonzalez in the
very first traffic stop -- rifles, shotguns, handguns, loaded magazines.
The Secret Service was warned. Should we be confident he`d be stopped now
if something like this happened again?

CAVANAUGH: Well, with the latest revelations from "The Washington
Post," Reverend Al, I think we got to be a little concerned here. But I
mean, I have a lot of faith in the service, but they`re not showing us a
lot of good operational tactics here surrounding the White House.

Look, you`re right to point out the Gonzalez case, and here`s how that
should have went. The Virginia State police stop him. He has 11 guns.
They call ATF. They find out he`s got a sawed-off shotgun. They both
notify the Service. The Service should have asked the U.S. attorney in
Virginia for a warrant, a complaint and a warrant on the sawed-off shotgun.
As a condition of release, of his bail, he should not be allowed near the
White House. Then if he showed up at the White House that time with the
knife, the second time, he could have been arrested on the spot and
remanded into custody.

So it`s a failure of decision-making to stop Gonzalez at the first
event in his tracks, where they had the sawed-off shotgun. So the director
has to get tough or get gone because this stuff`s continuing on with these
supervisory failures.

SHARPTON: But what makes us think if this happened now, that there
would be anything different? I mean, would they stop him? What`s in place
now that shows that there`s been any difference?

CAVANAUGH: Right. Well, you know, the director`s told the Congress
that he`s toughened up, tightened up training, and so forth. And they have
had fence jumpers since then that they`ve apprehended quickly. The
committee -- the study that recommended a new fence, which we know they
need a new fence -- we all know that -- and they`ve tightened up their
ships. So I`m not sure -- I think they have tightened up against fence
jumpers and mentally incompetent people...


SHARPTON: ... a little too much to drink and running into barricades
at the White House. Jonathan...

CAVANAUGH: You`re right.

SHARPTON: ... let me ask you this because the sentencing guidelines
would put Gonzalez in prison for 12 to 18 months -- I mean, 12 to 18 months
for breaking into the White House with a weapon. I mean, does that seem
right to you?

CAPEHART: Well, no, but that`s the law. And I think, as Jim pointed
out, we wouldn`t even be talking about this if the Secret Service had, you
know, stopped Mr. Gonzalez in his tracks the first time they stopped him
with that arsenal of weapons in his trunk.

I mean, one of the criticisms of now Director Clancy is that the
recommendation of the independent board that looked into this agency
recommended that the new director be someone from the outside to bring in
new ideas, fresh ideas.

But here`s the thing about Director Clancy. He had retired. He was
in the private sector after a long career in the Secret Service, and he
came back at the request of the president. And this is significant. It
was the president who decided to override that recommendation of bringing
someone from the outside, and that`s because Mr. Clancy is someone who
headed up the president`s detail when he was running for president now
almost eight years ago.

And when you`re talking about Secret Service, you`re talking about
protecting the life of the then-candidate and now the president. And
there`s a relationship and trust that is built on the most basic thing,
keeping the principal alive, keeping that principal`s family alive. And so
for the president to choose Mr. Clancy, it`s a comfort level which cannot
be discounted when it comes to who is going to be running the Secret

Now it`s incumbent, I think, upon the director to instill some
confidence not only in the president but the American people that he`s got
that place under control.

SHARPTON: That certainly is the issue here now, when now we have
another incident under Clancy. In fact, after the two agents crashed into
a barrier, a House committee sent Clancy a letter saying, quote, "To be
clear, in our view, you have much work to do. Please provide a briefing
and please provide a copy of any video footage, photographs or audio from
the incidents."

I mean, what needs to be done to fix the agency, Jim?

CAVANAUGH: Well, if I was going to make a recommendation to him,
Reverend Al, I`d say that Joe Clancy needs to get a deputy director from
outside the agency. He`s been picked by the president as the top man.
Then he can go out and get a deputy that`s a federal law enforcement
commander from another agency and put him in there and toughen this whole
thing up.

And he`s got to take swift action. If you look at the latest thing
that happened that you referenced, going through the barricade, two
commanders drinking, everything that was done wrong in that seems to be
done by a supervisor. The only person that wanted to do something right,
it seems, is the line uniform division officer who wanted to give a field
sobriety test.


CAVANAUGH: So when you have supervisors doing the wrong actions,
supervising cutting them loose, supervisors not taking the right action,
you got some real problems. And the director`s got to get tough.

One way he can help that is bring in an outside deputy, clamp down on
this, and make sure when somebody sees misconduct, action`s taken, it`s
reported. When you see Gonzalez in Virginia, there`s a chance to stop him,
stop him. You know, get tough. Get tough on your outside operations. Get
tough on your inside operations. They got great people. They want to do a
good job, but they`re just too insular right now, and you got to tighten it
up real -- it`s time to tighten up.

SHARPTON: Jonathan, do you think that the White House thinks they get
it? I mean, you said the public they`ve got to win, and I know the
president expressed his confidence when the situation first went down with
Gonzalez. But now, I mean, this happening, what are you hearing inside the
White House? Is there serious questioning going on? What are you getting
in terms of your sources in the White House?

CAPEHART: Well, I would expect that there obviously is concern,
especially when you have the number two person in the president`s personal
detail who is one of those people who crashed through the barricade onto an
ongoing investigation. I believe it was involving a suspicious package on
the White House grounds.

Look, we`re talking about a large cultural problem that predates
Director Clancy, that predated the person who was there before. When
you`ve got Secret Service agents drunk on the job overseas, fraternizing
with prostitutes overseas, doing things on the White House grounds that
violate all sorts of regulations that also put the life of the president
and the first family in danger, you -- I think Jim is right.

Director Clancy not only himself has to get control of the situation,
but he needs to have some people around him who can bust up this culture
that seems to have ossified. It seems that the roots of this have spread
so much, so far and so wide that, as Jim pointed out, it`s the supervisors
who are involved in this latest caper.

SHARPTON: Oh, yes, that`s the most disturbing...


SHARPTON: ... it`s at a supervisor level. Jonathan Capehart, Jim
Cavanaugh, thank you both for your time this evening.

CAPEHART: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: Have a good weekend.

CAVANAUGH: Thanks, Reverend.

CAPEHART: You, too.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, we`ll have breaking news on that manhunt
for a police shooter in Ferguson. The St. Louis County chief just spoke.

Also tonight, a widening investigation into that racist frat chant,
and now the fraternity could be suing the school.


can hang them from a tree, but they`ll never sign with me. There will


SHARPTON: Plus, more on this. The search is on for the teen seen
beating a girl. Will the victim come forward?

Please stay with us.


SHARPTON: Breaking news tonight on the manhunt for a police shooter
on the loose in Ferguson, Missouri. It`s been nearly two days since
someone ambushed two police officers in front of the Ferguson Police
Department. Three people have been questioned, but all have been released.

Moments ago, the St. Louis County police chief gave an update on the


since then. I cannot tell you at this point that an arrest is imminent.
There`s certainly nobody in custody.


SHARPTON: Tonight, the two wounded officers are at home with their
families. We will continue to follow this story closely.


SHARPTON: Outrage has been building toward the 47 Republican senators
who sent that letter to the leaders of Iran publicly undermining President
Obama. They`ve been called traitors, criticized by members of their own
party. And now President Obama`s speaking out.


them. For them to address a letter to the ayatollah, who they claim is our
mortal enemy, and their basic argument to them is, Don`t deal with our
president because you can`t trust him to follow through on an agreement --
that`s close to unprecedented.


SHARPTON: President Obama says he`s embarrassed for them, and he`s
not the only one. In today`s "Washington Post," a top speech writer in the
Bush administration called the true scandal of the GOP senators` letter to
Iran their conduct. Quote, "If Republican senators want to make a point
that an Iran deal requires a treaty, they should make that case to the
American people, not to the Iranians."

Congress simply has no business conducting foreign policy with a
foreign government, especially an adversarial one. Every Republican whose
picture -- who pictures his or her feet up on the Resolute desk should fear
this precedent. Their action sets a terrible precedent. This move wasn`t
just bad politics, it was bad policy, too. Now it`s time for an apology.

Joining me now is "Washington Post" columnist E.J. Dionne. Thank you
for being here, E.J.

E.J. DIONNE, "WASHINGTON POST": Good to be with you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: President Obama and a former Bush official both ripping the
letter -- what does that tell you, E.J.?

DIONNE: It tells me it was a really bad idea. My friend and
colleague, Mike Gerson, who wrote that great piece today, is going to have
to join the conservative commentators protection program after he wrote

I mean, it was really scathing. He said this was a foreign policy
maneuver in the middle of a high-stakes negotiation with all the gravity
and deliberation of a blog posting. And he went on to say that it raises
questions about the Republicans` capacity to govern.

This sends a terrible signal to the world about us. And it`s not just
people on the left who are criticizing and it`s not just Mike Gerson.
Senator Bob Corker, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee in the
Senate, didn`t sign it because he knew that this was a bad signal for us as
a country and it`s actually counterproductive from their own point of view


SHARPTON: ... let`s walk through because I want people to understand
what happened this week and how the Republicans dealt with this
controversy. It was released on Monday, and it seemed all Republicans were
serious about this letter.

Tuesday came the backlash, "The Daily News" even calling them
"traitors." On Wednesday, GOP aides were saying it was a joke, calling it
"cheeky" and the administration has no sense of humor.

Then John McCain said maybe they rushed the process, but quote,
"everybody was looking forward to getting out of town because of the
snowstorm." And today Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson said the only regret
is who it`s addressed to, meaning the Iranians.

Have they spent the whole week back-pedaling and moon-walking on this,

DIONNE: I think their only regret is the central problem with the
letter, which is that it`s addressed to Iran. And the notion -- and it`s
one of the things Mike Gerson talked about -- the notion that a bunch of
senators would scribble their names real fast on the bottom of a letter to
a foreign leader in the middle of a sensitive negotiation just makes no
sense, especially given all the things Republicans have said over the years
when Democrats did anything -- you know, I don`t think Democrats have done
anything quite like this ever that I can think of, that I`ve been able to

SHARPTON: No, I know when I was a teenager, many of us were against
the Vietnam war...

DIONNE: Correct.

SHARPTON: ... when Johnson was a Democrat and then later Nixon, and
we marched, we rallied, but nobody wrote Ho Chi Minh from the Congress. I

DIONNE: Some people did -- I mean, there were -- and in fact, it`s
one of the things that hurt the anti-war movement...


DIONNE: ... which is, you know, when parts of the anti-war movement
were waving, you know, North Vietnamese or Viet Cong...

SHARPTON: But members of Congress were not writing, members of the
Senate. I mean, this is unprecedented.

DIONNE: Right. And I think the other problem is that, again, from
their point of view, if the negotiations fail, then we are going to want to
ratchet up sanctions. That`s what all these folks say they are for. But
again, as Mike pointed out, when we go to our allies, our European friends,
they can point to letters like this and say, Were you guys negotiating in
good faith?

So again, you know, let`s -- I am -- I support what the president`s
trying to do, but if you`re critical of what he`s likely to come up with
and your alternative is sanctions, this is just going to get in your way.
And so it`s not surprising that all these Republicans are pulling back.

But the other thing is I think that there`s a suspicion among some of
us that, you know, all sort of bets are off when it comes to opposing
President Obama.

SHARPTON: That`s the point.


SHARPTON: And these are members of the Senate. I mean, we all have
the right to advocate, do what we want, but members of the Senate engaging
the head of an adversarial government? Unprecedented.

DIONNE: Right. And I think it`s important. All of us who are
liberal or progressive defend the right to oppose a president on foreign

SHARPTON: Absolutely.

DIONNE: We`ve done it ourselves.


DIONNE: That`s not the issue here. The issue here is a letter to a
foreign leader in the middle of a negotiation. Also, the letter reads like
something no civics teacher would ever sound like. It`s a weird and
pedantic letter -- Let us tell you about our Constitution.


DIONNE: It`s a very strange document.

SHARPTON: E.J. Dionne, thank you for your time tonight. Have a great

DIONNE: It`s great to be with you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, the investigation is growing tonight, but
is the frat with that racist song ready to sue the university?


can hang them from a tree, but they`ll never sign with me. There will


SHARPTON: Plus, why is Tom Hanks making it into my weekly report
card? Here`s a hint. It has to do with cookies.

And what is going on here? Why did Joe Biden send out this Vine?
Find out next.


ANNOUNCER: It`s time now for "Reverend Al`s Weekly Report Card"!

SHARPTON: Let`s get right to it. After the racist fraternity video
surfaced from the University of Oklahoma, one person really stepped up.
The school`s president, David Boren, has showed remarkable leadership.
Tonight, Professor Boren gets an S for Sooner. He showed everyone what it
means to be a member of the OU community by standing up to racism.

My next grade tonight involves Ironman himself, Robert Downey, Jr.,
and the collective project for delivering a special Ironman-themed 3-D-
printed prosthetic arm to 7-year-old Alex.



ALEX: Yes.

DOWNEY: Great.

ALEX: Each one looks the same.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know who that is?

ALEX: Ironman.


DOWNEY: I think yours is still a little bit more right than mine
because at least, you know...

ALEX: The lights work.

DOWNEY: The light works, yes. Oh, look at that, then. It`s a
marriage of robotic technologies. Bang! Nailed it.


SHARPTON: No doubt about this grade, a triple-A. Alex gets the first
two. He`s amazing and awesome. And Robert Downey, Jr., getting involved
is A for admirable.

Now to Tom Hanks, making his first appearance in my weekly report card
for his newest role, Girl Scout cookie seller. He bought a few boxes, took
a picture with the Scouts, then stuck around. He promised to take a
picture with anyone else who bought a box. What a guy.

Here`s an old-fashioned A-plus for him tonight. Tom is like a box of
chocolates -- or should I say Thin Mints -- you never know when you`re
going to get one.

Finally, Joe Biden is being very Joe Biden, accepting Michelle Obama`s
"Give me five" challenge for her Let`s Move campaign.


do a million of these a day. So just give me five.


SHARPTON: The VP gets an M for multi-tasking and muscles. Even this
guy would be proud.

Thanks to all my students tonight. Class dismissed.

ANNOUNCER: That`s tonight`s edition of "Reverend Al`s Weekly Report


SHARPTON: Now to developing news on that racist fraternity song that
was caught on video.


(People chanting): There will never be a (bleep) SAE. There will
never be a (bleep) SAE. You can hang them from a tree but they`ll never
sign with me. There will never be a (bleep) --


SHARPTON: The local chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon hiring a high-
powered attorney for possible legal action against the University of
Oklahoma. Steven Jones says he isn`t representing the expelled
ringleaders, but he wants to make sure due process is respected for other
students if more punishments are doled out.


lawsuit. I`m saying that our preference is to proceed in a non-legal
solution, a non-adversarial solution and a non-litigation solution. If
that`s not possible, although we act in good faith and present this, then
obviously we will have to consider other possibilities.


SHARPTON: And as the potential legal fight develops, there`s a
growing number of SAE chapters falling under scrutiny. Today the
fraternity`s national leaders say they`re looking into allegations the
Louisiana SEC chapter saying a similar song -- chant. They`re also looking
at the University of Texas at Austin chapter and the University of
Washington is investigating whether SAE members shouted racist remarks at
black students last month.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That`s when they started shouting and then flipping
us off and started saying like, you apes, why are you here? Get out of

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: It`s just absolutely unacceptable. All these
events happen in Oklahoma, Ferguson, New York, they`re not any different
than Seattle.


SHARPTON: How wide do these problems run and how far back do they go?

Joining me now is Lawrence Ross, author of the "The Divine Nine: A
History of African-American Fraternities." And Chelsea Davis, co-director
of "Unheard: The Black Student Group at OU." They`re the ones that first
posted the video online. Thank you both for being here.

FRATERNITIES": Thank you, Reverend.

Thanks for having me.

SHARPTON: Lawrence, the big news today, the local chapter hiring a
lawyer. What are the legal tensions that play between the school and

ROSS: Well, fraternities and schools typically have -- traditionally
have had a relationship that is kind of I don`t want to say tenuous because
you have on one hand fraternities saying that they have a freedom of
association. So they should be able to govern themselves independent of
the universities while universities, on the other hand, say that when you
are part of a university, you have to follow the university rules.
Typically but a code of conduct. And so, we get into sort of a gray area.
And this honestly is a gray area for me in terms of I don`t know -- I`m
not a lawyer, obviously, but one of the things I look at is the freedom of
expression, even as repugnant as that freedom of expression is for that
particular student combined with the expectation of the university for any
university student. And we also have to look at the fact that I think
Supreme Court decisions have also talked about speeches on universities
aren`t necessarily unfettered speech. Meaning you can`t just say anything
on a university campus.


ROSS: And I`m wondering if it could be for lawyers could be argued
that that type of speech actually makes it a hostile environment for
African-American and minority students on the University of Oklahoma`s

SHARPTON: Well, Chelsea, give us a sense of what is the mood, what is
the attitude on campus today? Because one of the things that impressed me
about the protests and, frankly, about unheard, is it seems that it has
been diverse student reaction, not just black students. It seems like a
lot of students operate very nonviolently even firmly, though, but very,
very much with dignity.

DAVIS: Right, so a lot of different minority communities are feeling
very emotional about the past events that have happened this past weekend.
But we stand behind our president. We support the decisions that he has
been made. Unheard agenda right now is that the key moving forward with
seven grievances that we listed within our formal letter. We are hopeful
with working with university administration to keep discussing the seven
grievances and keep moving forward to making our university more diverse
and more inclusive.

SHARPTON: You know, Lawrence, a former student at Angelo State
University in Texas tells NBC she heard the exact same song at a different
frat in 1973 or `74. Another man reports hearing that song in Texas Tech
in `63, and yet another heard a similar chant at the University of Georgia
in `61. And I note that one of the two that were expelled here in this
case said we were taught this song or taught this chant. How far could
this go back?

ROSS: Well, I think that`s the thing that always gets me. I think
we`re always surprised by incidents that actually happen when they really
go back as far as the early `20s, and not just specifically this particular
song but in terms of, for example, fraternity members painting their faces
back in 1916 in blackface and talking about that. But even within the last
15 years, we have different incidents that happen, for example, in 2001 at
Auburn University, Beta Theta Phi and Delta Sigma Phi had an incident where
fraternity members were dressed up as Klan members and they put a noose
around a neck of a person dressed in black paint.

SHARPTON: Yes, I remember that.

ROSS: Yes, in 2010 we had a Compton cookout by one fraternity where
they told people to come dressed in gangster paraphernalia to emulate
quote-unquote, "Crips and bloods." In 2013, there was a racist MLK party
at Arizona State where we talked a couple of Epsilon where they had
watermelon cups.

SHARPTON: Well, let me ask Chelsea this before we run out of time,
because clearly you`re right, this has gone on and on and on. But I think
this Oklahoma situation and frankly because of unheard has brought it to
where the nation is dealing with it. Chelsea, though, today the attorney
that was brought in by some of the members said that these members deserved
a second chance, these students. How do you respond to that? Do they
deserve a second chance?

DAVIS: I think that`s going to be completely up to university
administration and again at OU Unheard we stand behind our president, every
decision he decides to make in light of these issues.

SHARPTON: All right, Lawrence Ross and Chelsea Davis, thank you for
your time tonight. Have a good weekend.

DAVIS: Thanks for having me.

ROSS: Thank you, Reverend.

DAVIS: You too. Thanks.

SHARPTON: Ahead, is there an e-mail double standard? What Hillary
Clinton has in common with some top republicans.

Plus, a vicious brawl caught on tape. It went viral, but will the
police catch all the suspects?

And President Obama on area 51. Cooking, driving and Kanye West.
"Conversation Nation" is next.


SHARPTON: Time now for "Conversation Nation." Joining me tonight
MSNBC`s Abby Huntsman. Democratic strategist Jimmy Williams and host of
"THE DOCKET" on Shift MSNBC Seema Iyer. Thank you all for being with us




SHARPTON: Is there a double standard for Hillary Clinton? All week
she`s been under fire for using personal e-mail while secretary of state.
Republicans have been on the attack all week. But "The Wall Street
Journal" reports Hillary potential GOP rivals for the White House also used
personal e-mail accounts. Jeb Bush, Senator Marco Rubio and Governor Scott
Walker all have used private e-mails for official communication and decided
which e-mails to delete because they were private. In fact, like Hillary,
Jeb Bush owned the personal e-mail server that he used as governor. Jimmy,
I`m not saying what Hillary Clinton did was the smartest choice, but is
there an unfair double standard here?

WILLIAMS: By the way, nor is she, as she admitted in her press
conference on Tuesday. But this is the problem, if she were not running
for president -- and I`m sorry, let me back up. If her last name were not
Clinton, we would not be having this conversation. We know that Rick Perry
did it. We know that Jeb Bush did it. We know that Scott Walker did it.
We know that Marco Rubio did it. So why is it -- by the way, let`s think
back to Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney when he left the governorship of
Massachusetts, not only destroyed the e-mails, but he destroyed the
computers, and he ran for president and no one screamed about it at the
time. When George Bush was president of the United States, the RNC had a
server on which Karl Rove was e-mailing professional public business --

SHARPTON: We covered it a lot here, Jimmy. We definitely did.

WILLIAMS: That`s exactly right. We did. But this is why. They`re
only attacking her because her last name is Clinton. When Bill Clinton was
elected president in 1992, came into office in 1993, they began immediately
investigating him from `93 until the day he left and they impeached him in
the meantime. Hillary Clinton hasn`t even declared her run for presidency
yet and they`re already investigating her.

SHARPTON: Go ahead, Abby.

HUNTSMAN: Well, I think you mad a good point, Jimmy, in that everyone
is sort of in this together. We`re in this new world where people can get
into our e-mails and they can be used against you. I mean, I think years
ago no one really thought that was a possibility.


HUNTSMAN: No, I`m just saying they`re all in this together. Normally
when something like this, when a scandal or controversy happens with
Hillary Clinton who is the front-runner for republicans, they would all be
jumping on top of her. We haven`t seen that though, we haven`t seen that
from folks like --

SHARPTON: I have a laundry list of prior bad acts by Hillary Clinton.
Rev, there was Whitewater, there was Filegate, there was Travelgate, there
was Bosnia, there was the missing files from the Rose Law Firm that somehow
ended up in the book room of the third floor of the White House. And let`s
not forget, Mr. Vince Foster. So, that, they`re looking at the evidence.

IYER: Yes. I think there`s a reason, though, that republicans have
been so quiet here. Because Rev, no one wants their private e-mails to be
looked at.

SHARPTON: But wait, no, no, no. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Aren`t we getting away from whether or not she should or shouldn`t have had
them with the State Department as secretary of state?

WILLIAMS: Guess what?

SHARPTON: And whether or not others when they were holding their
public office did the same or not.

IYER: That`s because of the law.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait.

SHARPTON: It really has nothing to do with what past allegations or
not. We`re talking about whether her function and their function was the
same, and I think that the standard is the question that I raise.

IYER: Which is the law.

WILLIAMS: is a double standard. But listen, ABC News just reported
literally 30 minutes ago that the State Department had to shut down its
servers because they got hacked today. By the way, how many times did
Hillary Clinton`s server get hacked? Zero. So if we`re going to have a
conversation about getting hacked -- in 2013 there were 61,000 examples of
the federal government`s servers being hacked. Not one time was Hillary
Clinton or Bill Clinton`s server hacked. So she did it -- yes, she should
not have done it but guess what -- WikiLeaks, think about WikiLeaks.


HUNTSMAN: Rev, I think you made a good point earlier. And the real
problem here and the challenges and we`ll never know this -- is Hillary and
Jeb Bush and others, they`re the ones responsible for the e-mails they put
forward. So we`ll never going to know if the ones they deleted was --

IYER: They`re work e-mails. That`s the real point here.

SHARPTON: That`s my only point. Now to the search for the New York
teens caught savagely beating a girl on tape. It`s a tough video to see.
A group of girls smashing another girl at McDonald`s in Brooklyn. The
victim seen in the blue sweatshirt was attacked by at least four other
girls. Today police are still searching for five other girls who took part
in the gruesome attack. The 16-year-old seen stomping on the victim`s head
has been arrested and charged with gang assault and robbery. The victim
initially refused to talk to police, is reportedly beginning to cooperate.
Seema, how critical is the victim`s cooperation?

IYER: It is not, Rev. And it`s a brilliant question that you ask.
It`s a high misconception that you need a victim to prosecute. You don`t.
We have the videotape. And we can find other witnesses to corroborate.
And meanwhile, you can still prosecute one member of the gang assault
without arresting all of the other members. So they can go full speed
ahead with this.


HUNTSMAN: I`m just wondering how a girl like this is still out on the
street. I mean, you read about her past having what, stabbed her brother,
punched her grandmother, her mother was running out of the house saying
she`s going to burn the house down. Apparently she`s been arrested a
number of times but then let go. So, the question I have is, why is she
still out on the streets able to do this?

SHARPTON: Well, let me follow up on that. We`re learning about the
16-year-old. At age 16 she`s already been arrested six times.


SHARPTON: Including once for reportedly stabbing her brother in the
arm and another for punching her grandmother in the face. Arrested six
times in a year.

HUNTSMAN: Horrific.

SHARPTON: How is it possible that she`s free and able to beat another
girl up like this, Jimmy?

WILLIAMS: Well, listen, we have a bigger -- we have a bigger problem.
The city of New York regularly stops and frisks African-American teenagers
for just walking down the street. But she`s -- she was out free in a
McDonald`s. Why is that happening?

IYER: Because she`s 16 years old. Because she`s 16 years old.

WILLIAMS: It doesn`t matter. She should go to jail.

SHARPTON: She`s been arrested six times.

IYER: Maybe it doesn`t matter to society but the courts recognize
that the younger you are the more likely you are to be rehabilitated. The
courts recognize that a 16-year-old`s brain is not fully developed.

HUNTSMAN: But we`re talking about stabbing a brother here.

IYER: I`m just here for the courts, babe.

SHARPTON: Seema, the courts need to give us the address of where you
rehabilitate them. There`s a difference between detention centers and
correction centers.

WILLIAMS: It`s called Rikers Island.

SHARPTON: We have detention centers not correction centers.

IYER: Jimmy, not Rikers Island.

SHARPTON: People don`t rehabilitate themselves.


SHARPTON: Everyone stay with me. We`ll be right back.


SHARPTON: We`re back with our panel, Abby, Jimmy and Seema. And
President Obama knows how to work a late-night crowd. Last night the
President got the full Kimmel treatment, reading mean tweets about himself.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: A 30 rack of Coors Light is
$23 now at sun stop. Thanks, Obama. Somebody send Obama some life hacks
on how to be a good president. Ha-ha. Like I bet that would help. Lol.
You know, the Lol`s redundant when you have the ha-ha.


SHARPTON: The President shared in the laughs, and talk about some
real serious issues, too, like Ferguson and student loans. The White House
doesn`t wait to -- they don`t wait around to see if their message sticks.
They go out and they talk to people where they are. Bill Clinton playing
the sax on Arsenio Hall was groundbreaking, but Clinton made it cool but
President Obama has made it the norm. We`ve seen him on other late-night
shows like Colbert, Fallon and the Daily Show. And on the web pushing
health care on "Between Two Ferns" and in funny Buzzfeed video.

Abby, he`s been criticized for these appearances, but the country`s
changing. Do you thing this media strategy has been effective.

HUNTSMAN: Well, I always enjoy the president on these types of shows.
And I though last night`s Jimmy Kimmel was one of his best appearances
because it went from talking about something serious like Ferguson, he had
a really good message about what`s going on there. And then he was able to
do the segment you just showed of the mean tweets which is one of my
favorite segments on that show. And I have to say that was the best one
I`ve actually seen done because he has this dead pan when he reads it, and
then all of a sudden he gets this look on his face and he starts laughing.
I was laughing hysterically. It makes him human, makes him real. It helps
you relate to him I think.


WILLIAMS: Yes. I have to agree with Abby. I mean, the President
when he did the three YouTubers, Glozell and the other two, they came from
the White House and interviewed them, that`s the first time that`s happened
at the White House. He`s taking technology, he`s taking this media, if you
will, to a different level. And as you said, making it the norm. I think
that`s fantastic. And by the way, he`s setting the bar higher so that
every president going forward will have to do this because, if they don`t,
guess who will criticize them? We will.

SHARPTON: Well, Seema, every president reaching that bar, the problem
is that President Obama is good at it.

IYER: Yes.

SHARPTON: And we don`t know if other future presidents will be that

IYER: That`s why our next president should be Jon Stewart so he can
meet that bar. We need to get to that expectation.


HUNTSMAN: I agree with that.

IYER: What are we going to do? Who is as funny as our president?
He`s the best, he`s hysterical.

HUNTSMAN: Yes, Rev. My favorite is when he read the tweet saying, I
wish someone would send you off to some other part of the world to a golf
course and just leave you there.


HUNTSMAN: And he said, I would actually enjoy that.

IYER: That was good.

SHARPTON: Yes. That was good. He`s very good at that. And I think
that it`s an interesting way that seems to be effective. Well, Abby, Jimmy
and Seema, thank you for your time. Have a great weekend.

HUNTSMAN: Thank you.

IYER: Thanks, Rev.

WILLIAMS: You too.

SHARPTON: Be sure to watch Abby on "THE CYCLE" weekdays at 3 p.m.
here on MSNBC and catch Seema on "THE DOCKET" Tuesdays at 11 a.m. on Shift

When we come back, what a week it`s been, from marching in Selma to
Oklahoma to Ferguson, why we`ve come a long way but have more work to do,


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, what a week it`s been. Last weekend I was
in Selma marching with President Obama and so many civil rights icons
commemorating 50 years since Bloody Sunday. It was remarkable to see how
far we`ve come in America. But this week show us how much work there is
still to do. From the racist fraternity song caught on the tape in
Oklahoma to the controversy following the police shooting in Madison,
Wisconsin, of an unarmed black man, to two police officers shot in
Ferguson, we still don`t know what happened. But when fighting for change,
it`s important to remember Selma. President Obama talked about it last


OBAMA: What was beautiful about Selma was reminding ourselves that
real social change in this country so often has happened because ordinary
people are willing in a nonviolent fashion to make their voices heard. And
you know, I think that what had been happening in Ferguson was oppressive
and objectionable and was worthy of protest, but there was no excuse for
criminal acts.


SHARPTON: With all of this in the news, it was ironic to learn we
lost a civil rights icon this week. Journalist Claude Sitton passed away
at age 89. He literally put the civil rights movement on the front page
writing nearly 900 articles for "The New York Times." And now this week
civil rights is back on the front page. No one said it would be easy. And
with the constant issues that arise, it`s easy sometimes to despair, but as
I walked across that bridge on last Saturday behind the icons that had
walked it 50 years before and we stood there beside the President, I
thought about how my mother who was from Alabama couldn`t vote in her home
town until she was 39, yet she raised me, her son, where I ran for
president and got to deal with the first black president. The long arc of
the universe is long, but it bends toward justice if we don`t give up and
if we don`t let daily challenges make us go into a long-term sense of
despair. We must keep hope, and we must keep the faith.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. Have a great weekend.
"HARDBALL" starts right now.


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