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'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Thursday, March 26th, 2015

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Date: March 26, 2015
Guest: Jim McNamara, Michael Kay, Michelle Cornette, Robert McFadden

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Rachel, I love that he actually struggled
a little bit more with the word stenographer than syzygy.

RACHEL MADDOW: Or antidisestablishmentarianism --


MADDOW: For that matter --

O`DONNELL: Or I`ve got it right here, catawampus --

MADDOW: Yes --



MADDOW: Thanks --

O`DONNELL: Thanks Rachel --

MADDOW: Thanks.

O`DONNELL: Well, today, Vladimir Putin demanded that Iran cease military
operations in Yemen, and German police remove material from the apartment
of the co-pilot who deliberately crashed that German Airliner into the

They`re hoping to find the answer in there to the question that everyone is
asking, why did he do it? And we have new video tonight that might show
that police planted cocaine on a man in Michigan after they were caught on
video severely beating that man.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the most stunning announcements in aviation

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 27-year-old German co-pilot Andreas Lubitz --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deliberately crashed the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did not say a word, and is breathing very slowly and
calmly up to the very end.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators searched his parents home, removing
items including what appeared to be a computer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searchers still looking --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the second cockpit data recorder and more clues to
a chilling crime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crisis on multiple fronts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is what had been a civil war in Yemen is become a
regional war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saudi Arabia and the coalition of other Arab
countries launched airstrikes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an effort to stop the advance of these Houthi

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re backed by Iran --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who seized control of Yemen`s capital city Sana`a --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The U.S. has joined Iran-backed militias striking
ISIS in Tikrit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The troops that are actually fighting on the ground are
Shia militias backed by Iran, so you have a little bit of an irony here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news in from lower Manhattan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A building suddenly exploded, setting off an inferno
and causing it to collapse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thick plumes of smoke could be seen from blocks away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears to have been caused by plumbing and gas

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At least 12 people were hurt, three of them
critically injured --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a Detroit suburb, dash cam video appears to show a
man being beaten by Inkster police officers, he was pulled over for running
a stop sign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say they found cocaine in Dent`s car.

FLOYD DENT, AUTO WORKER: I saw it being planted in my car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not advocating any revenge, we`re saying
essentially, let the system work.


O`DONNELL: One hundred percent fit for flying, that`s how the CEO of
Lufthansa described 27-year-old Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot who
deliberately crashed Germanwings Flight 9525 into the French Alps on
Tuesday, killing himself and 149 passengers and crew aboard.

Tonight, German investigators searched Andreas Lubitz apartment and his
parent`s home for any clues, taking with them boxes of potential evidence
including a computer.

A French prosecutor explained earlier today that when the plane`s captain
left the cockpit presumably to go to the bathroom, Andreas Lubitz locked
the cockpit door from the inside and then set the plane`s course on a
descent path to 100 feet above sea level.

Which is much lower than the altitude of the mountain that the plane
eventually crashed into. And here is the French prosecutor describing what
the last moments on that flight sounded like through the cockpit voice


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He`s knocking, he`s asking to be
let in, zero response from the co-pilot.

You hear human breathing within the cabin, and we hear this breathing up
until the final point of impact.

Which we assume means that the co-pilot was living, was alive in the
cockpit. And then we start hearing banging, someone trying to actually
break the door down.


O`DONNELL: In the United States, pilots can never be left alone in the
cockpit. If one pilot needs to use the restroom, then a flight attendant
needs to remain in the cockpit while that pilot is absent.

"Nbc`s" Katie Couric asked the CEO of Lufthansa, the parent company of
Germanwings about this protocol earlier today.


KATIE COURIC, JOURNALIST: Are there regulations where a flight attendant
has to be in the cockpit if a pilot has a bathroom break or goes to get a

is regulations in some parts of the world including the one I assume you
are coming from, the U.S., but only a small number of airlines in Europe,
as far as I know, no.

But airline at all, for sure, none of the big airlines we work with.

COURIC: Are you going to do that in the future?

SPOHR: I don`t see any need to change our procedures at this very point, I
think it has been a single occasion.


O`DONNELL: Immediately after that press conference, "Nbc`s" aviation
correspondent Tom Costello made this prediction.


TOM COSTELLO, NBC: The international pressure on Lufthansa is going to be
so great, I suspect they will announce a change and it will be very


O`DONNELL: By the end of today, several airlines including Norwegian Air,
Britain`s EasyJet and Icelandair, all announced plans to adopt the two-
person rule.

Joining me now, Michael Kay, a pilot and former senior British officer and
military strategist, Jim McNamara, retired FBI supervisory special agent.

Jim McNamara, the FBI is now involved in this investigation. What will
their role be?

INVESTIGATIONS: They`re going to have a two-fold role, Lawrence.

They`re going to have an investigative team exploring everything in the co-
pilot`s past, and they`re going to have forensic teams assisting the French
processing the scene.

O`DONNELL: And Michael Kay, we`ve been sitting here each night and each
night there`s a giant new revelation from the previous 24 hours.

That -- it was just last night that we were learning there was banging on
the door. That story not only held up, it got fully fleshed out today by
the French prosecutor.

What was your reaction when you heard all of this information coming out
through the French prosecutor?

MICHAEL KAY, PILOT: The revelations this morning, Lawrence, was shocking,
especially after our conversation last night where the initial indications
from the CVR, that`s when the alarm bells in my mind started going off.

We were talking last night about, in emergencies of this nature you would
expect cross-copy conversation of a nature, which was talking about the
emergency, what the aircraft was doing.

What -- by version of -- again, there was none of that, and that`s when the
alarm bells started going.

Now while after these revelations, Lawrence, I think -- I think what`s come
out in the light of all this is, A, there`s a -- there`s a big discrepancy
between what the FAA mandates and what the CAA mandates in other parts of
the world in terms of security corporate protocols.

But also, there`s quite an easy fix to this, and now most of the copy
safety protocols are there because of what happened on 9/11.

So in effect, it`s either to do with hostage taking and preventing someone
from getting into the cockpit or incapacitation.

It`s never really been about the rogue pilot. And I think this is what
happened very often. As I said, there isn`t easy fix, and easy fix is, you
just make sure there are two people in the cockpit.

It doesn`t require technology, it doesn`t require a lot of finance, it just
requires something procedural, and I think that is a pragmatic way forward
from the onset.

O`DONNELL: Jim McNamara, as much as anything, this may become a
psychiatric investigation of -- unless there`s something very clear on the
co-pilot`s computer; some journal entry, some kind of note of some kind
that explains it.

There`s a picture of him we have up on the screen right now, was visiting
San Francisco. What will the -- what assets will the FBI be able to bring
to some kind of psychiatric analysis of the evidence?

MCNAMARA: I was a member of the Behavioral Analysis Unit for the FBI for
my last 18 years of my career.

And what we did was either multi-disciplinary approach to incidents like
this to involve psychiatrists, forensic psychiatrists and other

So what the investigative team is going to do is try to work through the
public life, the private life of the co-pilot into his secret life, and try
to determine what stresses that he have, what issues, what problems, you
know, nobody just snaps.

That`s a big myth. So they`re going to be looking at, how long has he been
thinking about doing this? Has he communicated it in writing, e-mails,
verbally to people, even off-handedly?

And if so, for how long?

O`DONNELL: And Michael, the rule of let`s have two people in the cockpit,
is that the only adjustment that we need to make in anticipation of this
kind of problem?

KAY: Well, most adjustments of the nature that we`re talking about require
some sort of funding and finance.

So that`s incredibly difficult, and then it`s going to be implemented and
standardized across sort of the global entity --

O`DONNELL: This you could just do today.

KAY: Well, exactly, because it doesn`t require any funding and it`s a
procedural fix. Now, if it already happens in America, then there`s no
reason why it shouldn`t be able to happen here.

But I think the important thing here --

O`DONNELL: Why do -- what -- rules, I sense some resistance about it
today. It`s -- it was very surprising to me that Lufthansa would want to
go into that press conference not have anticipated that question.

An anticipation of the question, not be ready to say we`ve changed the
policy, we changed the policy right before we came out here.

And our new rule is, no one can be alone in the cockpit.

KAY: Well, the policy that the -- that the Europeans go by, it all depends
on this video-monitoring systems. So there`s a camera outside of the
cockpit door which looks at the cabin.

Having spoken to some very close sources who work for very large aviation
operators in the U.K., that protocol is that, if that video system works,
so the camera goes into a screen in the cockpit, then a pilot can come and
go without the requirement to have two people in the cockpit.

Because when the person comes back, puts in the code, the alarm bell goes
off, the handily pilot can look at the screen, see who is out there, assess
the threat and then let the person in as required.

Now, if that system doesn`t work, the protocol as it was up until today was
that they would have to bring a member of the cabin crew into the cockpit.

Only because that person can then look through the spy hole through the
door and then make that assessment without the screen. So that`s kind of a

It is as we`ve said, it`s an easy fix. But we shouldn`t -- we shouldn`t
conflate what`s going on here, criminal activity with terrorism.

And I think what we`re talking about in terms of spending time to profile
this guy and make sure we get it absolutely right is critical.

Because you know, you put ten people in a room, they`ll give you ten
different definitions of terrorism. Terrorism is intimidation of violence
to achieve political gains, and we need to wait for the outcomes of this.

O`DONNELL: We are joined now by Dr. Michelle Cornette, she is the
executive director of the American Association of Suicidology.

Dr. Cornette, what would you be looking for in a suicide like this? This is
a grandiose, a wildly flamboyant suicide that he had to know was going to
get the world`s attention.

Yes, most definitely. And you know, we know some things about the
distinction between murder-suicide and suicide, if this was indeed a

I very much want to echo the points of my colleagues about the critical
importance of first determining what this was.

We don`t know at this particular juncture if this was homicide versus
suicide versus homicide-suicide or even something else.

In our field, we have a similar sort of recommended methodology to what Mr.
McNamara was describing, it`s called psychological autopsy.

And it involves an intense investigative process and record gathering
whereby you interview family, friends, gather essentially any record you
can get your hand on, legal records, mental health records.

I also just want to echo the point, events like this are very rarely sort
of snapped decisions. This is very likely something that he had been -- if
indeed this was a suicide or homicide-suicide, something he was -- he was
planning for some time.

O`DONNELL: And doctor, who are the people you would like to talk to? What
would be your -- the first round of interviews you would want to do on

CORNETTE: To be honest with you, I don`t know his family`s circumstances.
But definitely -- essentially you want to get to the people who were
closest to him.

This can take, you know, a period of months. Obviously a spouse, a
romantic partner, if there was such a person, children, parents, friends,
co-workers, anyone who might be able to shed some sort of light on what
might have been going on in -- you know, in his mind at the time.

And of course, as Mr. McNamara alluded to, if we are lucky enough such that
there was some sort of a note or some sort of video communication as there
was in Columbine, that would also be beneficial.

I also just want to mention, I have a senior colleague in the field who has
done a lot of writing and came up with a book just a few years ago on
murder-suicide, his name is Thomas Joyner(ph).

And he talks about motives for murder-suicide which are distinct relative
to regular suicide. And so he talks about essentially an individual having
perverted virtues, to include virtues of mercy and duty and glory.

So for example, when we think about the Columbine tragedy, I know a lot of
people initially had the perception or the belief that these were
individuals who had been bullied and that this was an effort to get back.

Later what we discovered through intense analysis of video and other
things, is that this was actually a glory motivation.

And so there was -- there were records of them saying that they wanted to
"undo or out-do, I should say, Timothy McVeigh."

O`DONNELL: And so you think there could be elements of that involved in
this story?

CORNETTE: Oh, I really can`t say. You know, this is a classification
system for murder-suicide. To think if indeed it was a murder-suicide,
it`s possible that it falls into one of those categories.

The other thing I think to think about carefully is, you know, is making a
distinction between was this an act of terrorism? Was this politically
motivated versus was this primarily a suicide?

And we know that murder-suicides tend to be primarily motivated by suicide,
and secondarily motivated by homicide.

O`DONNELL: Dr. Michelle Cornette, Michael Kay, Jim McNamara, thank you all
for joining me tonight.

CORNETTE: Thank you.


O`DONNELL: Coming up, we have a new video to show you in the case of a
Michigan man who says police beat him, and then planted drugs in his car.

And in tonight`s episode of "Boys Will Be Boys", drug enforcement agents
have sex parties paid for by drug cartels. You cannot make it up.


O`DONNELL: New York City firefighters are still on the scene of a building
explosion here in Manhattan. The blast occurred after workers inside a
restaurant accidently broke a gas line, law enforcement officials told

Three buildings have now collapsed as a result of the explosion and fire.
For the latest, I`m joined live by "Msnbc`s" Adam Reese.

Adam, what`s the latest down there?

ADAM REESE, MSNBC: Lawrence, good evening . Firefighters still here on
the scene, the good news is, it`s been raining, so that should assist them.

Inspectors here as well, but they believe this was a gas-related explosion
associated with some work that was being done in the building.

Nineteen people injured, four seriously. Some 200 firefighters battling
the blaze here all afternoon, fire raging through these buildings, smoke
billowing across the neighborhood here on the lower East Side of Manhattan.

Now, eyewitnesses said it was a scene of chaos. They heard and felt the
explosion, people ran out of the buildings with whatever they had on.

Some people coming down the stairs, a couple of people jumping out of low-
floor windows. One eyewitness described people walking around dazed and
confused and bloody.

Now, this afternoon, gas inspectors from ComEd came to the Japanese
restaurant to inspect some gas and plumbing work that was being done.

It did not pass inspection, did not pass muster, about an hour later, the
building exploded, Lawrence?

O`DONNELL: Adam Reese, thank you very much for joining us on that. Coming
up, police in Michigan are investigating their own, their own officers
after a brutal arrest was caught on tape.

Why did officers punch an unarmed man 16 times after a routine traffic
stop? That`s next.


O`DONNELL: State and local police in Michigan are now investigating a
brutal arrest in suburban Detroit following a routine traffic stop of an
unarmed African-American driver.

It happened in the town of Inkster where 57-year-old Floyd Dent was
arrested after being punched in the head 16 times, kicked at least twice
and hit by a taser three times.

The story is getting national attention now, thanks largely to the
extraordinary reporting of Kevin Dietz; an "Nbc" Detroit`s -- "Nbc"
correspondent, "Nbc`s" Detroit, "Wdiv", here is the first of Kevin Dietz
extraordinary reports on this case.

KEVIN DIETZ, WDIV: We all know being a police officer is a difficult and
dangerous job. It`s also one that requires integrity and honesty.

Tonight, a very disturbing video with two very different stories about what
this video shows. Take a look.


DIETZ (voice-over): You`re looking at police dash cam video. A traffic
stop of 57-year-old Floyd Dent, who is driving his Cadillac in the city of

When he`s pulled over by police, he opens his car door, the situation
immediately escalates and then turns violent.

According to police reports and court testimony, Inkster police officer
Melendez puts Dent in a choke-hold and then delivers 16 blows to his head.

A second officer Zil Zuski(ph) struggles to handcuff Dent, a third officer
Critzers(ph) runs off and tasers Dent three times, twice in the stomach,
once in the leg.

Several Michigan State police officers respond as backup and are also on
scene. Police say they were protecting themselves, Dent says he doesn`t
know why he was pulled over or why he was viciously beaten.

FLOYD DENT, AUTO WORKER: The next thing I know, he -- officer brought out
his gun, you know, talking about blowing my head off, then he grabbed me at
the car, you know, and he started beating on me.

You know, I just couldn`t believe it.

DIETZ: Police say they first saw Dent`s car through binoculars, they were
watching an area known for drug dealing. They followed Dent`s car and say
he did not properly stop at a stop sign.

They say when they turned on their overhead lights, Dent did not pull over
immediately and they believe he was fleeing the officers.

DENT: When the overhead lights came on, I looked, I said, wow, are they --
are they stopping me?

DIETZ: Dent says he did not try and flee, and the video shows he drove at
a consistent speed until pulling over across the street from the old police

DENT: I get pulled over, and opened my car door, I had my hands up.

DIETZ: When the car door opened, the police say, they ordered Dent to put
his hands up, but they could only see one of his hands.

They say Dent yelled at the officers "I`ll kill you." The officers
microphones were either turned off or not working. There is no audio of
the alleged threat.

Greg Rohl is Dent`s attorney.

GREG ROHL, ATTORNEY: That you have six responding vehicles, and not one
officer is equipped with a microphone to take down this alleged threat.

DIETZ: On the ground, police say Dent refused to put his hands behind his
back. Dent said, he thought he was being choked to death and tried to pull
the officers arm from his throat.

The officer says Dent bit him on the arm and that`s why he started
punching. They say the 16 blows to the head, a kick to the arm and three
taser blasts were necessary to protect themselves while restraining Dent.

The officer, who says he was bit did not seek medical attention or
photograph his injuries.

DENT: I`m lucky to be -- I`m lucky to be living, you know, because I think
they were trying to do, they were trying to kill me.

Especially when they had choked me, you know, man, I was on my last breath.
I kept telling them, I said, please, I can`t breathe.

DIETZ: Dent was not armed and no gun was found in his car. After the
arrest, police discovered Dent was driving on a suspended license, they
also say they found a baggy of crack cocaine under the passenger seat.

DENT: They planted that stuff in my car, believe me.

DIETZ: Dent has been working for Ford Motor Company for 37 years and has
no criminal record. He had his blood tested at the hospital and had no
drugs in his system.

Officer Melendez, the one seen throwing the punches is the same officer who
had working as a Detroit police officer in 2003 was charged by the U.S.
Attorney`s office with planting evidence and falsifying reports.

A jury found officer Melendez not guilty.

DENT: I worked for that, you know, I`ve been at my job 37 years, you know,
so, you know, I don`t have to sell drugs, you know, I don`t sell drugs.
You know, I don`t do drugs.

DIETZ: Floyd Dent is African-American. His attorney says the three
officers who made physical contact with Dent and seven more who arrived as
backup are all white, and that concerns him.

ROHL: In this type of climate, it`s just remarkable that things are still
going on, it`s amazing, it amazes me. It`s shocking and disturbing.

DIETZ: A judge looked at the video and dismissed multiple charges, saying
there is no evidence that Dent was fleeing and eluding police officers.

No evidence that Dent was resisting arrest, and no evidence that Dent
assaulted any police officer. Inkster police launched an investigation
immediately and asked the Michigan State police to investigate as well.

Officer Melendez is off the street working a desk job, pending the outcome
of the investigations.

VICKI YOST, INKSTER POLICE CHIEF: Inkster Police Department has a policy
in-line with best practices that requires any significant use of force or
serious use of force resulting in injury, requires an internal

But I was notified that night of the prisoner going to the hospital and the
investigation was ordered immediately, and it`s ongoing at this time.

DENT: Man, I`m getting tears thinking about it, I mean, you know, I don`t
-- I don`t even want to watch the tape of them beating me because I get --
I get upset.

DIETZ (on camera): While most of the charges have been thrown out, Floyd
Dent still faces possession of cocaine charges and he has a court date on
April 1st, he was offered a plea deal where he would receive probation for
that charge.

He refused that deal, saying he will not plead guilty to a crime he did not


O`DONNELL: That was Kevin Dietz of "Nbc`s" Detroit affiliate, "Wdiv".
Kevin will join me next after we watch his follow-up report on the cocaine
evidence that Floyd Dent says was planted in his car.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: These drugs were planted in your car as a
result of this?

FLOYD DENT, DETROIT MAN BEATEN BY POLICE: Yes, I saw them being planted in
my car.


LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: That was Floyd Dent yesterday at a press
conference in Michigan. And here is the report by Kevin Dietz at NBC`s
Detroit affiliate, WDIV, about the cocaine evidence that was found in that


KEVIN DIETZ, WDIV INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (voice-over): In the video, the
officer seen throwing the punches, William Melendez, is seen pulling
something from his pocket that looks like a plastic baggy with something
inside it.

Melendez testified in court, police found a baggy of crack cocaine under
the passenger seat of Dent`s car. Greg Rohl is Floyd Dent`s attorney.

GREG ROHL, FLOYD DENT`S ATTORNEY: We have on video this officer searching
the car and testifying, "Oh, allegedly, I found it under the passenger

Of course, my client`s fingerprints will not be on that bag. We all know
that. And all of a sudden, you see Robocop reaching into his pocket, and
you can see him pull out a baggy.

And then he says, "Also, he`s got a baggy of rocks." I said, "Where did
that come from." Come on.

DIETZ: Officer Melendez was known by citizens in Detroit as "Robocop." He
was fired by the Detroit Police Department for falsifying police reports.

He was charged for planting evidence in 2003 in a federal court case.
A jury found him not guilty.

Local attorney, Michael Ratai, says he is friends with Officer Melendez and
supports him.

MICHAEL RATAI, LOCAL ATTORNEY: He`s just a good guy. He`s a man`s man.
And I can`t say enough good things about him, you know.

I don`t know the circumstances that he`s currently facing but I would be
surprised if he did something that was inappropriate.

DIETZ: In a one-on-one interview, Dent tells me he doesn`t do drugs,
doesn`t sell drugs. A test for drugs following the stop came up negative.
Dent has no criminal record.

DENT: They treated me like I was a -- I killed a hundred people, OK. And
that`s when know then, this is some time of cover-up, OK.

They kind of covered up for what they did. When they looked in my car,
they thought I was actually a drug dealer.

DIETZ: Police are not commenting on the video. Melendez was put on desk
duty immediately, pending an internal investigation and a Michigan State
Police investigation.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now, WDIV Investigative Reporter Kevin Dietz.
Kevin, just to clarify for the audience, on the video, which they can go
back to and watch on our Web site and on your Web site, on the planting of
the evidence, it`s the officer in the background who they should be looking
at. Not the one -- the larger guy in the foreground, right.

DIETZ: That`s correct.


That`s Officer Melendez in the background. And something comes out of his
pocket that appears to be a plastic baggy, and it appears to have something
in it.

That`s what the defense attorneys say is the evidence that was planted.
And Floyd --


-- is going to be in court next Wednesday on the possession charges. And
he plans to take this video to the judge and ask that the case be

O`DONNELL: And this is the same judge who has dismissed all the other
charges in the case?

DIETZ: It is not. This case has moved now to circuit court. And so, this
will be --


-- the first time it gets to a circuit court judge. And a district court
judge got rid of all the previous charges -- the resisting arrest, the
assault, and the obstruction of justice. The district court judge said
there was no evidence of --


-- any of that, but did bind over on the possession charges.

O`DONNELL: And what`s the local police chief saying about hiring someone
who was fired by the Detroit Police Department for falsifying evidence?

DIETZ: Nothing at all. The chief has not made any comment about that.


What she does say is that they launched an investigation immediately, and
they`ll stand by whatever those investigations find.

And that`s going to be very interesting. There`s one by Inkster, an
internal investigation, --


-- and one by the Michigan State Police. And they`re looking at that
videotape, and they`re going to decide if these officers did the right
thing, or if they should be fired, or if they should be charged criminally.

And the key there is going to be all those punches to the head --


-- of Floyd Dent. Was that necessary or was that criminal.

O`DONNELL: Kevin Dietz, thank you for your extraordinary reporting on this
and thanks for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.


DIETZ: Anytime.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, one of the generals gives us --


-- a one-minute Summary of the chaos in Yemen. And Vladimir Putin tells
Iran today to stop the fighting in Yemen.



Today, President Obama`s special envoy and in charge of fighting ISIS,
Retired General John Allen, gave Congress the one-minute version of what`s
happening in Yemen.


three principal forces at work in Yemen. We have the Houthis, which are a
Shia element that is, in some form or another, supported by Iran.

We have the regime, which is failing. And we have al-Qaeda, which has been
a problem for some period of time, AQAP, it`s often called, al-Qaeda in the
Arabian Peninsula.

al-Qaeda is the principal Sunni element, extremist element, that is on the
ground in Yemen. The Houthis are the Shia element on the ground with the
regard the Yemen.

And then, we have the state, which we still support. We`re calling on all
parties, obviously, to come to an agreement that supports the central

And it is the central government that the Saudi-led --


-- 10-nation coalition is now supporting with military operations.

O:DONNELL: And, now, Robert McFadden, a former Deputy Assistant Director -


-- of NCIS Counter-Intelligence Operations. He`s now Senior Vice President
of the Soufan Group. Also joined by Steve Clemons, Washington Senior
Editor-at-Large for "The Atlantic" and an MSNBC contributor.

Steve, it sounds like the two-second version of what the general just said
is uncontrollable chaos.

STEVE CLEMONS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it`s absolutely. And we`re seeing
the meltdown of the state. We`ve been watching it for many months, that
the rate of that deterioration is really picking up speed.

O`DONNELL: We`ve discovered, I think, in our government, a new 21st
Century phrase for unwinnable wars that we still want to fight, we still
want to get involved in.

Let`s listen to how -- and that is, of course, when we go to the no-
military solution phrase. Let`s listen to how the State Department said it


that there is -- that there is no purely military solution to the situation
in Yemen.

And we, along with the GCC ministers, whom the secretary spoke to today,
support political negotiations as the best way to resolve the crisis.

However, we also understand the Saudis` concerns, especially given the
Houthies` failure to, you know, engage meaningfully in the political
dialogue process.

And so, in that regard, we understand and we support the action that
they`ve taken.


O`DONNELL: Robert McFadden, I don`t know what else you can say if you work
at the State Department but --


-- the Houthis` failure to engage meaningfully in the political dialogue, I
guess, really is a problem.

INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS: Absolutely. I mean, in addition to what the good
General Allen added, distilled it very nicely, you have a fourth rail
though of the former dictator, Ali Abdullah Saleh, --

O`DONNELL: Yes, yes.

MCFADDEN: -- who has half of the General People`s Congress Party with him,
the other half, with Abd Rabbuh Hadi. And so, one --

O`DONNELL: Now, he, by the way, has not fled Yemen?


O`DONNELL: Oh, he has. So, they`re both out.

MCFADDEN: He`s reported to be in Saudi -- oh, Ali Abdullah Saleh?


MCFADDEN: Unknown right now.

O`DONNELL: So, Yemen is probably friendlier territory to him or more
survivable territory than the guy who we`re trying to keep in power, who`s
had to flee the country.

CLEMONS: He`s working with the Houthis.


MCFADDEN: And the Saudis have actually said to his son, who`s been leading
the attack on Aden, to cease and and desist, or he will be obliterated.

And so, Saleh`s son is very much a part of the Houthi action right now.

MCFADDEN: And what Steve refers to there, that`s probably the biggest
single ingredient of the quick moment for the Houthi when they came down
from their traditional territory in the far northwest.

The force is still loyal to Ali Abdullah Saleh and his son, Ahmed. They
just didn`t fight, were sometimes actually aligned with the Houthi.

O`DONNELL: What do you make of Vladimir Putin telling Iran to stand down
in Yemen.

CLEMONS: I think he`s probably having a moment where he wants to confuse
the world on whether he`s, you know, sticking the United States in the eye
or trying to be constructive.

But, right now, with what`s going on with the nuclear negotiations, those
nuclear negotiations matter to China, --

O`DONNELL: Uh-hmm.

CLEMONS: -- they matter to Russia, they matter to Europe. And, right now,
that -- the mess that we`re seeing boil over that could bring Saudi forces
-- and not only Saudis --


-- but the Bahrainese, the Kuwaitis, the U.A.E, even Qatar has 10 planes in
this mess, right into direct contact, potentially, with Iranians. The
Saudis have said, any ship that goes in and out of Yemen port will be

So, that is -- that`s very scary stuff. So, if you have a conflict
between the Saudis and the Iranians directly, then the nuclear deal is off.

O`DONNELL: What do you think is the Iranian --


-- reaction to Putin.

MCFADDEN: Well, look, of all the ingredients in this, at least, someone
said something along the lines, --


MCFADDEN: -- and with Putin talking to the Iranians. The Iranians are
sitting in the cat birdhouse right now. They really don`t have to do
anything --


-- because, the Houthis, as long as they keep the momentum, they`re in good
shape. And I don`t think that they think that the Saudi-led coalition is
going to be that much of a barrier for the status quo.

So, they don`t really have to do nything militarily or otherwwise in Yemen
right now.

O`DONNELL: Could the Iranians stop this.

CLEMONS: I think it`s a big question mark. I think a lot of us think they


But a lot of us think China can stop North Korea, too. You know,
sometimes, the little monster you`ve created has its own mind, its own

The Houthis are very much driven by their own agenda inside Yemen.

O`DONNELL: Try to give me the next week, two weeks of this. Because I
wouldn`t dare ask for the long-term outcome here.

MCFADDEN: OK, very interesting to see if this is just symbolic or maybe a
couple of nights of combat sortis to see what happens with the coalition.

But, most importantly, with the Arab leaving over the weekend, if there`s
more dialogue after the initial symbolism of all this, that they start
talking in terms of, "Can we have a ceasefire?"

O`DONNELL: What do you think, Steve, next couple of weeks.

CLEMONS: I think it will be continued pounding. I think Saudi Arabia has
its sphere of influence. It`s not going to allow this to go further. It`s
going to be tough, tough times.

O`DONNELL: Steve Clemons and Robert McFadden, thank you both very much for
joining me tonight. Appreciate it.

Up next, DEA agents caught having sex parties. But, don`t worry, they`re
not using taxpayer money from the War on Drugs to pay for the prostitutes.

They`re letting the drug cartels pay for the prostitutes.



What happens when you`re the lead agency in the federal government`s War on
Drugs, America`s longest and most hopeless war in which the government has
already wasted more than a trillion dollars, with nothing to show for it.
Well, apparently, --


-- according to a report issued today by the Department of Justice
Inspector General, you go to South America and have sex parties financed by
drug lords. The report, --


-- which began simply as an investigation of sexual harassment in federal
law enforcement agencies, uncovered a great deal of sexual harassments in
all of those agencies that were investigated, along with 26 allegations of
soliciting prostitutes overseas.

Nineteen of the alleged offenses came from the DEA. The report also
accused the FBI and the DEA of trying to derail the Inspector General`s

Here`s just one example of misconduct that can be found in the
131-page report. A foreign officer allegedly arranged sex parties with
prostitutes, funded by the local drug cartels, for DEA agents, at their
government-leased quarters.

The Inspector General report also says, the misconduct occurred for several
years, while the special agents held top-secret clearances, raising the
possibility that DEA equipment and information also may have been
compromised as a result of the agents` conduct.

Joining me now is Susan Crabtree, White House Corresponent for the
"Washington Examiner." Susan, you`ve been chronicling all the follies in
the Secret Service.

But, the thing about the DEA is, at least, it`s not doing anything
important. It`s just losing the War on Drugs every day. And we don`t
expect them to have even one winning day in the War on Drugs.

And so, there`s nothing really at stake here except misconduct by
individual officers and the failure of their agencies, the discipline. I
mean, is there anything more at stake here.

I think you have taxpayer dollars at work and --

O`DONNELL: No, it`s drug -- they`re using the drug cartel money for the

CRABTREE: But it was --


O`DONNELL: They`re being very economical about that.

CRABTREE: Well, it does raise the question on whether you can do anything
in Columbia without the drug cartels getting involved. I mean, it`s a very
dangerous place.

And why are we having DEA agents down there anyway. But, really, when you
look at it in comparison to the Secret Service scandals, it`s an all-too-
familiar refrain.

You`d have people, the supervisors, in Columbia, DEA agents obviously gone
wild and failing to report the problems up the command -- chain of command
to back to Washington, so that they can be investigated.

And, in fact, you had, at one point in the report, you had supervisors that
are assistant directors that were actually engaging in the same

And, actually, in those cases, the Inspector General thought that they were
-- that they were using government funds to -- and that`s taxpayer dollars,
to fund those activities for a retirement party.

You know, this is just all too familiar. And I think that Congress is --
it`s making the Secret Service almost look like boy scouts in comparison.

But the DEA agents, according to my reporting -- I did a foyer last fall on
these DEA agents involving -- involved with the Secret Service scandal.

And they actually were acting as pimps for the Secret Service, if you can
believe that. They were arranging the prostitution for the Secret Service
when they were down there.

And they actually were trying to -- when they were investigated, they
deleted their cellphone -- the contacts on their cellphones, 37 contacts
that the OIG found through its Forensics Team, to sex -- prostitutes,
basically, sex services. It`s unbelievable.

O`DONNELL: Wow. I didn`t realize the DEA was connected to that Secret
Service prostitute scandal down there, too. Amazing.

Susan Crabtree, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really
appreciate it.

CRABTREE: No problem.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Gabby Giffords` --


-- husband, former astronaut, Mark Kelly, is back in the space program for
one very special mission that involves his twin brother, who is also an
astronaut. What are the odds.

The remarkable story of the Kelly Brothers is next. Mark Kelly will join



America`s twin-brother astronauts will begin an amazing one-year mission
tomorrow. One of them, Mark Kelly, will join me next.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Excelling every rigorous step of the way, the
Kelly twins made it to the top, becoming astronauts in 1997. How did Mark
react to the fact that Scott got the nod to blast off first?

MARK KELLY, ASTRONAUT: It would have been better if I was the first pilot
to like -- but --

SCOTT: But he`s not.


MARK KELLY: But I`m not.

REPORTER: Not only do they look alike, they talk alike, finishing each
other`s sentences in a polite and humble manner.

SCOTT KELLY: We`re lucky.

MARK KELLY: A lot of luck involved. I think, a lot of --

SCOTT KELLY: Hard work.

MARK KELLY: -- hard work, perseverance, --

SCOTT KELLY: Determination.

MARK KELLY: Very important.

O`DONNELL: Identical twin astronauts, Mark Kelly, who is married to
Former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, and his brother, Scott Kelly, are
about to embark in a historic journey that could change the future of space

But only one of them is actually going into space. Scott Kelly, along with
a Russian cosmonaut, will blast off from a launch pad in Kazakhstan
tomorrow for a one-year mission to the International Space Station.

Not only will Scott Kelly become the first American to spend a full year in
space, he will also be a participant in the first-ever NASA Twin Study with
his brother, Mark, who will remain on Earth.

During the one-year study, scientists will conduct the same series of tests
on the twin brothers to determine the effects of long-duration space travel
on the human body. Joining me now via Skype from Kazakhstan --


-- is Mark Kelly. He`s an NBC News and MSNBC Space and Aviation Analyst
and a former astronaut and naval aviator.

Mark, so they have dragged you back in for this final mission. What is
going to be required of you during this year.

dragged me back in, but then dragged me all the way here to --


-- Baikonur, Kazakhstan. So, you know, I`ve already participated in a
bunch of ultrasounds and MRIs, given a lot --


-- happened today. And then I`ll do that again while he`s in space and
after he comes back.

But these are studies that are looking at the change in the genetic
material, the change in my brother`s DNA from being in space for a year,
and the change in bone mass, changes to the brain and the optic nerve.

There`s about 10 -- there`s about a list of 10 different research studies
from different universities around the country.

O`DONNELL: But aren`t you going to have all sorts of --


-- physical advantages over him in terms of ability to exercise, and the
air that you`re breathing, or various things that are different?

MARK KELLY: Well, certainly, the air on the space station is really clean.
And he, because of the nature of where he is, he`s required to exercise a
considerable amount everyday for a couple of hours.

I certainly don`t do that. But the focus of these studies is more on the
details of our physiology.

The space environment, there`s a lot of radiation. And we don`t understand
what that does to the human body.

And if, one day, we want to send people on a trip to Mars, that`s going to
take a couple of years. So, we have to expand our knowledge of what it is
and what it does to us to stay in space --


O`DONNELL: I think we -- Mark, can you still hear me, Mark. I think we`re

MARK KELLY: Yes, I can hear you.

O`DONNELL: Oh, good, you can hear me, OK.

MARK KELLY: I can hear you now.

O`DONNELL: Our video is a little off. But what about the psychological
effects, Mark.


What do you think your brother, Scott, is going to go through,
psychologically, up there for a year.

MARK KELLY: Well, he`s already gone one long-duration space mission, which
was six months long. So, he has a pretty good understanding.

He does say that this feels a lot -- a lot different than it did
previously. You know, that one year is a really, really long time.

Psychologically, we don`t know. You know, he`ll be in contact with people
on the ground. One of the tests we`re doing actually has to do with
cognitive function.

Not psychological but cognitive function, how your performance changes by
being in that environment.

O`DONNELL: And the year -- is there anything that could happen up there
where an astronaut can say, "I really have to come down." Is there any way
down or are you there for the --


-- 365 days.

MARK KELLY: You`re pretty much there. I mean, there is a Soyuz there that
holds three people. So, for every three crew members on board, there is a
way to get off.

But you`re only going to do that if you have like a catastrophic fire, --


-- a cabin depress, an ammonia leak, a really serious emergency. You`re
not going to get -- or maybe a medical emergency. Outside of that, no, you
are there for the duration.

These missions are incredibly expensive, paid for by taxpayer dollars. I
mean, we just don`t send somebody home because they`ve, you know, because
they`re tired and have had enough. So --


O`DONNELL: Mark -- sorry, Mark, we`re just about out of time. Thank you
very much for joining us.

Our best to your brother. Good luck with this mission. Thank you, Mark.

MARK KELLY: You`re very welcome, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.


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