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The Ed Show for Thursday, April 2nd, 2015

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Date: April 2, 2015
Guest: Joe Sestak, Jim McDermott, Rabbi Shmuley, George Takei, Ed Delaney,
Bob Shrum

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from Detroit Lakes Minnesota.

Let`s get to work.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Iran will never be permitted
to develop the nuclear weapon.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, the Iran deal.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have negotiated as a team



SCHULTZ: Good you have us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching this. No
bigger story around the world, historic news out of Switzerland this

After decades of strain relations between the United States and Iran, we
are one step closer to a nuclear agreement.

Iran and six world powers have reached an understanding on the framework
which aims to pave the way towards a final deal.

The news comes after eight days of marathon talks, two deadline extensions,
and a lot of speculation on the details. President Obama delivers the
statement earlier today, where he laid out some specifics:


OBAMA: This framework would cutoff every pathway that Iran could take to
develop a nuclear weapon. Iran will face strict limitations on its
program, and Iran has also agreed to the most robust and intrusive
inspections and transparency regime ever negotiated for any nuclear program
in history. So this deal is not based on trust, it`s based on
unprecedented verification.

Many key details will be finalized over the next three months, and nothing
is agreed to until everything is agreed. But here are the basic outlines
of the deal that we are working to finalize.

First, Iran will not be able to pursue a bomb using plutonium, because it
will not develop weapons-grade plutonium. The core of its reactor at Arak
will be dismantled and replaced. The spent fuel from that facility will be
shipped out of Iran for the life of the reactor. Iran will not build a new
heavy-water reactor. And Iran will not reprocess fuel from its existing
reactors, ever.

Second, this deal shuts down Iran`s path to a bomb using enriched uranium.
Iran has agreed that its installed centrifuges will be reduced by two-
thirds. Iran will no longer enrich uranium at its Fordow facility. Iran
will not enrich uranium with its advanced centrifuges for at least the next
10 years. The vast majority of Iran`s stockpile of enriched uranium will
be neutralized.

Today, estimates indicate that Iran is only two or three months away from
potentially acquiring the raw materials that could be used for a single
nuclear bomb. Under this deal, Iran has agreed that it will not stockpile
the materials needed to build a weapon, even if it violated the deal.

For the next decade at least, Iran would be a minimum of a year away from
acquiring enough material for a bomb. And the strict limitations on Iran`s
stockpile will last for 15 years.

Third, this deal provides the best possible defense against Iran`s ability
to pursue a nuclear weapon covertly -- that is in secret. International
inspectors will have unprecedented access not only to Iranian nuclear
facilities, but to the entire supply chain that supports Iran`s nuclear

From uranium mills they provide the raw materials to the centrifuge
production and storage facilities that support the program.

If Iran cheats, the world will know it. If we see something suspicious, we
will inspect it. Iran`s past efforts to weaponized this program will be

With this deal, Iran will face more inspections than any other country in
the world.

So this will be a long-term deal that addresses each path to a potential
Iranian nuclear bomb. There will be strict limits on Iran`s program for a
decade. Additional restrictions on building new facilities or stockpiling
materials will last for 15 years. The unprecedented transparency measures
will last for 20 years or more. Indeed, some will be permanent. And as a
member of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran will never be
permitted to develop a nuclear weapon.

In return for Iran`s actions, the international community has agreed to
provide Iran with relief from certain sanctions. Our own sanctions, and
international sanctions imposed by the United Nations Security Council.
This relief will be faced as Iran takes steps to adhere to the deal. If
Iran violates the deal, sanctions can be snapped back into place.

Meanwhile, other American sanctions on Iran for its support of terrorism,
its human rights abuses, its ballistic missile program, will continue to be
fully enforced.

Now, let me reemphasize, our work is not yet done. The deal has not been
signed. Between now and the end of June, the negotiators will continue to
work through the details of how this framework will be fully implemented
and those details matter.

If there is backsliding on the part of the Iranians, if the verification
and inspection mechanisms don`t meet the specifications of our nuclear and
security experts, there will be no deal.

But if we can get this done, and Iran follows through on the framework that
our negotiators agreed to, we will be able to resolve one of the greatest
threats to our security and to do so peacefully.


SCHULTZ: President Obama at White House this afternoon talking about this
historic day and international relations and this potentially historic
deal. It is a framework, it is tentative, there is no deal signed but this
is as far we`ve ever been with the Iranian`s in contemporary time. And
within the last 90 days, there`s been a tremendous amount of pressure on
this President to walkaway from negotiations, hearing the hecklers in the
stand saying that there`s no way Iran will be ever be an honest broker.

But you got to start somewhere. This is a heck of a start, and it possibly
is a foundation for more agreements down the road if we can get this one.

Maybe we are watching hope and change in the process. The last
administration show us what work can do, this administration is
demonstrating to the world what leadership is in a different passion and
also demonstrating to the world what negotiations can actually do.
Nothing`s lost until you give up.

For more, let`s turn into Admiral Joe Sestak with us tonight here on the Ed
Show. Admiral, good to have you with us tonight.

JOE SESTAK, FRM. U.S. ADMIRAL: Good to be with you tonight, Ed. Thanks.

SCHULTZ: I`m getting some static in my ears so I will just ask you some
questions here, Admiral.


SCHULTZ: How big is this in your opinion? How good of a first step is

SESTAK: This is an extraordinarily significant first step. Look, we have
to be cautious and we have to make sure that the details are lot down by
the end of the June in the final agreement.

But what this mean is for 15 years, we can absolutely stop Iran from having
a nuclear weapon. Because if they got one, then Saudi Arabia gets one and
all of a sudden you have nuclear arms raise there.

We could strike them but notice what this agreement did, Ed. It took
Fordow on a (ph) hundreds of feet of rock that we never could get to
inspect and we couldn`t bomb it into oblivion.

Now, we get inside there and we can inspect it everyday, the one place that
we couldn`t get to with our military. This is a very significant agreement
if we get...


SESTAK: ... the details lock down and the inspection regime is a day in
and day out watching them.

SCHULTZ: You know, I got feeling today, Admiral, that President Obama
basically spoke for the world telling the Iranians that your credibility is
on the table here. There are six world powers here or who are facing you
and we have all agreed in a tentative deal and we`re not going to be the
ones to walkaway from, it if you do everything you`re suppose to do.

It was almost -- as a news consumer, I felt like the President was
presenting it as if the Iranians of some sort were boxed in on this and
there`s no way out, there is no way they can cheat your thoughts on that.

SESTAK: This was America doing what it does best, leading the world. We
started these years ago and we coalesce everyone through negotiations and
sanctions that hurt.

Look, in Iran today, they have to pay twice what they had to buy a box of
cereal than they had to a couple years ago. Their economy plummeted, it
was tough hard negations that made it hurt in a way that wasn`t a bomb on
target, that we knew we could only with our military stop this program for
four years now.

This is where America coalesce the world, even difficult people like our
nations, like Russia and China, the clamp down on then.

This if successful and again, I caution the details aren`t locked in. I
think would end up being one of the best foreign policy achievements of
this administration.

SCHULTZ: Well, I will tend to agree with you on that. In fact, I think
the Obama critics tonight have got to take some pause. And they`re not out
and about at this hour critical of it (ph) because they want to know what
the devil on the details are because if this truly is what it sounds to be
a concrete first step forward, it is historic, no doubt.

What kind of reaction do you expect from the Congress? I mean, we all know
that if we can keep Iran from getting a nuclear bomb and a threat to the
world, it`s a win for everybody. So do you expect any political divide on
this that could sour this good start?

SESTAK: Look, we know that it`s always been a disagreement here at home.
But the fact that they would actually have send, they`d be in those 47
Senators including Senator Toomey from Pennsylvania that actually sent a
letter to the Ayatollah who had said death to Americans that disregard our
present negotiations meant that they don`t get what security of America can
be and how it can be brought about.

I hope they`ve learned their lesson. I hope they understand that they
should be sitting here if they disagree with the agreement and internally
debate it if they want. But don`t divide our nation abroad. I hope that
partisanship has stopped finally at the water`s edge.

Much like it did with President Reagan or President Nixon brought home
start (ph) or soft talk to the Soviet Union. But -- and I hope (inaudible)
bringing internal again.

SCHULTZ: And, Admiral, your -- Yeah. Admiral, your thought on what is
sounds to be like a new Camp David Summit. There are going to be six
nations represented from the Middle East at Camp David later on the spring,
which I think signals that President Obama knows it`s going to take a
community effort at that part of the globe if this is all going to unfold
properly. How important do you see regional partners in this?

SESTAK: Absolutely vital. We know that dangers to us like terrorist come
from over there. We want them to coalesce with us so that we can protect
ourselves not here in homeland defense but over their abroad.

Look, they also understand that the creature like ISIS that some of those
nations like Saudi Arabia are got our help create, and Iran that is has
been upon the destruction of Saudi Arabia as it is the United States and
Israel, all of a sudden we may have this opportunity to bend together
jointly and face common adversaries that threatened Israel as well as the
United States.

I think this is a significant moment. Proceed with caution. Double check
everything but let`s try to bring about peace without having to use our

SCHULTZ: All right. Admiral Joe Sestak with us tonight here on the Ed

SESTAK: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Admiral, good to have you on. Thanks so much.

Share your thoughts with us on Tweeter tonight @edshow, like us on
Facebook. You can get my video podcast at

We`ll have more on this historic day in international relations, a great
start between the two countries coming up throughout this hour. And later,
the fix is in. We`ll have an update on Indiana`s religious freedom law and
just what unfolded in Arkansas.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And we are back. Thanks for watching tonight here on the Ed

The President is working on selling the Iranian nuclear deal to world

This afternoon he spoke with Europeans leaders to discuss the framework of
the deal, his toughest task maybe selling of course, settling that through
Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The President responded to the Prime Minister`s skepticism earlier today.


OBAMA: And our concerns will remain with respect to Iranian behavior, so
long as Iran continues its sponsorship of terrorism, its support for
proxies who destabilize the Middle East, its threats against America`s
friends and allies, like Israel. So make no mistake, we will remain
vigilant encountering those actions and standing with our allies.

It`s no secret that the Israeli Prime Minister and I don`t agree about
whether the United States should move forward with a peaceful resolution to
the Iranian issue. And in fact, Prime Minister Netanyahu is looking for
the most effective way to ensure Iran doesn`t get a nuclear weapon. This
is the best option, and I believe our nuclear experts can confirm that.

More importantly, I will be speaking with the Prime Minister today to make
clear that there will be no daylight, there is no daylight, when it comes
to our support for Israel`s security and our concerns about Iran`s
destabilizing policies and threats towards Israel.

And that`s why I`ve directed my national security team to consult closely
with the new Israeli government in the coming weeks and months, about how
we can further strengthen our long-term security cooperation with Israel,
and make clear our unshakable commitment to Israel`s defense.


SCHULTZ: No doubt, Israel, a big concern to the United States.

Joining me now is Congressman Jim McDermott of Washington and MSNBC
Contributor Steve Clemons, Editor-at-Large for The Atlantic, gentlemen,
great to have you with us.

Congressman, you fist. What is this -- what message does this sent today
to the advocates of more sanctions? Were they wrong? Have we gone far
enough to say that sanctions have done what they were suppose to do and we
don`t have to go any further?

REP. JIM MCDERMOTT, (D) WASHINGTON: My belief is the President as he
handled this brilliantly. He held back the people who wanted to throw a
monkey wrench into the negotiations and he has accomplished what he set out
to do bring a comprehensive agreement to the American people.

That doesn`t mean for one second that those who want to throw monkey wrench
in this plans won`t try to or won`t do it in the future.

But they do it at their own risk because the question you have to ask them
is, what is your alternative? You just kind of keep squeezing and hope
you`ll get, I don`t know, you think Iran will go away or that their nuclear
plant will go away.

The President has put a plan on the table that controls it for 15 years.
It`s a fabulous piece of work and I know there are details. The devil is
always in the details and you want to see the agreement? But what he`s got
on the table is a skeleton agreement that really makes an awful lot of

SCHULTZ: Steve, Israel`s Strategic Affairs Minister released a statement
following the deals announcement today saying that the smiles (ph) of
Switzerland are detached from wretched reality in which Iran refuses to
make any concessions on their nuclear issue and continues to threaten
Israel and all other countries in the Middle East.

Pessimism galore it seems like. Will the President be able to sell this
deal to the Prime Minister? Is there any way Israel will move at all on

STEVE CLEMONS, THE ATLANTIC: I think so. I think President Obama will do
exactly what Bibi Netanyahu did when he was appealing to American citizens.
Barack Obama will paint a very clear and lucid picture of the options ahead
and how reducing Iran`s nuclear fuel by 97 percent getting into previously
unreachable parts of Iran`s nuclear program, getting Iran to agree to a
substantial two-thirds reduction in it centrifuges and locking it in place
into first generation centrifuges which frankly are pretty crappy.

So when you take all of that to the Israeli citizenry, I think you`ll see
that Tehran and Israel changed because you just can`t have kind of New
Orleans levee strategy for Israeli security hoping a big storm won`t come.
You`ve got to actually do things that fundamentally change the dynamic in
the Middle East.

And President Obama has done a masterful (ph) job, I agree with Congressman
McDermott in moving that needle. It`s an extraordinary difficult needle
but he is moving it and it`s breathtaking to watch.

SCHULTZ: The President also had a message for the Iranian people today in
a statement. Here it is.


OBAMA: To the Iranian people, I want to reaffirm what I`ve said since the
beginning of my presidency. We are willing to engage you on the basis of
mutual interests and mutual respect.

This deal offers the prospect of relief from sanctions that were imposed
because of Iran`s violation of international law.

Since Iran`s Supreme Leader has issued a fatwa against the development of
nuclear weapons, this framework gives Iran the opportunity to verify that
this program is, in fact, peaceful.

It demonstrates that if Iran complies with its international obligations,
then it can fully rejoin the community of nations, thereby fulfilling the
extraordinary talent and aspirations of the Iranian people. That would be
good for Iran, and it would be good for the world.


SCHULTZ: Congressman, it sounds like the table has been set for this deal
if it goes through -- to put a pressure on the Iranian people to make sure
that the country follows through with this. Because they`ve struggled with
these economic sanctions, they want a prosper in their society, in their
country and I just got a feeling today listening to the President that he -
- that was a big (inaudible) fringe to the Iranian people but also a
challenge to them to make sure that it goes through. How did you read it?

MCDERMOTT: Well, I thought, it was a very conciliatory statement by the
President, a very nice statement. And he is really acknowledging that the
-- you remember the last President of Iran (Inaudible) or (Johnny) or
whatever his name was who let Iran yelling all kinds of scary things.

That man that`s now the President and the Foreign Minister are very
reasonable people, they both studied in the United States. They know us as
human beings. And when I talked to their staff a longtime ago, they said
if we can get a situation where we have a win-win, where we, the Iranians
win and were the rest of the world wins, we all have an agreement. And I
think you heard the Foreign Minister today say that that`s where he thought
they were.

They had a win-win situation. I think the Iranian people will back them in
the political process. I think you have got something going here that`s
really very exciting.

SCHULTZ: What`s your take on that, Steve?

CLEMONS: Well, I think it`s interesting on just on the White House call
with senior administration officials. You know, one of the interesting
comments was that that Iran is not a democracy like ours but they have
politics. And their politics plays just like our politics plays and you
got to deal with that dimensionality over there.

And Barack Obama is giving a tilt to reformats, to the people that have
aspirations for Iran of saying to them, your lives can be better,
everything can be better. Hold your leaders accountable, make them move
forward on this.

And so, I thought it was a very...


CLEMONS: ... nice move like Congressman McDermott said, very important to
talk directly to Iran`s people.

SCHULTZ: Well, Steve, nothings ever peaches and cream, where is the rotten
apple in this deal if there is one? I mean...

CLEMONS: I think...

SCHULTZ: What`s the -- where`s the fly in the ointment here?

CLEMONS: Well, I think that right now, there still opportunity in the next
couple of months to bash this all up. There can be different
interpretations on each side of how the -- what is considered to be
appropriate behavior by Iran in getting these sanctions relief.

There could be a huge difference of opinion on what reducing Iran`s nuclear
fuel means where it goes, how it`s managed and so there`s plenty of
opportunity left for the naysayers (ph) to do this.

But when I -- I hadn`t seen the texts that disagreeing that we`ve been
talking about the outlines for some time.


SCHULTZ: But I think that the several...



CLEMONS: ... notches better than I expected it would be.

MCDERMOTT: Ed, the real...

SCHULTZ: You know, they`re talking like that. What do you think, Jim?

MCDERMOTT: Well, the real bumped in the road here is that the other side
has tried for six years to prevent the President from having any success
rather it`s with the Affordable Care Act or anything else and here comes an
international agreement which in my opinion is bigger and has more impact
for Americans than does the Affordable Care Act.

This is a huge agreement if it goes through and I don`t how the Republicans
are going to squelch (ph) and say we support him. I mean, that`s going to
be their tough thing, is to figure out how can they either find someway to
tear it down or come to the President and say, you know, you`ve done a good
job. Thank you.

I know -- that`s where the real rough (ph) is going to be.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. And then probably sends somebody out there he`s got
nothing to lose like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. So those guys are
probably on the way.

Congressman Jim McDermott, Steve Clemons, good to have you with us tonight.

CLEMONS: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I appreciate the conversation.

Up next, John Kerry has a message for Congress as the deal on Iran`s
nuclear program is tentatively in place. And later, Indiana`s religious
freedom law gets a rewrite.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back -- and developments on that in Arkansas
as well.



OBAMA: Given the importance of this issue, I have instructed my
negotiators to fully brief Congress and the American people on the
substance of the deal. And I welcome a robust debate in the weeks and
months to come.

I am confident that we can show that this deal is good for the security of
the United States, for our allies and for the world.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

This historic potential deal with Iran has been a major hurdle for the
United States so far. Until 20 months ago, the United States and Iran had
not been speaking at all. Not on speaking terms. At top of the sanctions
against Iran, we`re putting place by Congress.

Some Congressional Republicans have been critical on these talks calling
for the United States to walk away. Secretary John Kerry asked for
congress to be patient.


KERRY: The status quo with respect to Iran`s nuclear program is
unacceptable. And certainly, we will continue to consult closely in the
days ahead with the United States Congress.

They and we understand that an Iran that had a nuclear weapon in the
context of today`s troubles would be even more problematic.

We sincerely hope that members will continue to give us the time and the
space that we need to fully explain the political agreement that we have
reached and to work out the remaining details of a final deal.


SCHULTZ: And joining me tonight Rabbi Shmuley Boteach founder of The
World: The Values Network also with us David Corn, MSNBC Political Analyst
and Bureau Chief for Mother Jones in Washington, great to have both of you
with us.

Rabbi Shmuley, we`ve have some pretty intense conversations about this, did
you hear anything today from President Obama or Secretary of State John
Kerry that would you any level of encouragement at all.

could I`ve heard anything from the president when it was all drown now by
the noise of non-alcoholic champaign popping all over to Iran.

This is a deal that is so good for Iran. They keep their underground
nuclear facilities open. They capitulate in no way whatsoever. They
maintain their entire nuclear apparatus and they got billions and billions
of dollars and unfrozen assets. Why would they not agree to this deal?

When President Obama just said in the clip that you showed that Ayatollah
Khomeini said there`s a fatwa against nuclear weapons. Ayatollah Khomeini
is the biggest terrorist in the world, he is the foremost murderer alive,
who would trust him?

But why do we trust somebody says I`m not going to build nuclear weapons
but we -- but when he says death to America death to America. This is...


BOTEACH: . North Korea all over again, we saw the same deal of North Korea
we saw the same inspections and they have bombs and now we can`t do a thing
about the people they murder because they are rendered immune because of
their nuclear weapons.

SCHULTZ: All right.


SCHULTZ: OK. I -- go ahead, David.

CORN: I was going to say, we can either talk about facts so we can just
throw a rhetorical around. I know being rabbi is often rhetorical position
and that`s where you really good atmosphere Rabbi.

But there are lots of facts to discuss. In fact, this parameters is not an
agreement, we don`t know if they can sign this deal by the end of the June.
But in tremendously reduces the nuclear program that Iraq has, you take
10,000 kilograms of low enriched uranium bring it down to 300 kilograms of
lower its uranium, and you have very, very, very intrusive inspection
processes and this right all by itself without anything else makes it much
harder for them to get an atomic weapon.

SCHULTZ: OK. All right. That...

CORN: I mean that just..

SCHULTZ: That right there, that right there, that`s what I want to --
Rabbi, that`s what I want you to respond to.

The President says that Iran will not have weapons-grade plutonium, what
about the facts. Forget the past behavior, there`s always going to be
societal differences and judgments thrown about what terrorism and what it
is and everything.

I`m talking about saving the world here that a country will not get a
nuclear weapon, what about the facts? Did you hear anything today that
would give you any hope that we`re headed in the right direction?

BOTEACH: Well, I want to first thank David for his complement in my
rhetorical skills. God bless you.

But in the final analysis, let`s give (ph) facts. And let me response,
(inaudible) repeat your question, Ed. Did I hear anything that will make
me feel a little bit at ease that Iran maintains its entire nuclear

SCHULTZ: Correct.

BOTEACH: . although they`re just...

CORN: They`re going to.

BOTEACH: One second -- David, David, David. David, how can I

CORN: Well, that`s not true. But that`s not true.

BOTEACH: David, how can I demonstrate -- David, how can I demonstrate --
how can I maintain...

CORN: That is not true.

BOTEACH: ... how can I demonstrate my rhetorical skills when you speak
over me? Give me a moment and then you can disagree with me right

They maintain their entire apparatus. It`s just matter of not enriching at
the same level right now, their not dismantling Fordow, they not
dismantling Natanz

SCHULTZ: So the answer is no?

BOTEACH: No. The answer is that we -- that the assurances President Obama
gave us are the same assurances that the Clinton administration gave with
North Korea with the same deal, same speech, same intrusive inspections .

CORN: It`s not the same deal.

BOTEACH: Well, let me ask you a question then, what is the significance
difference between the deal done with North Korea intrusive inspections
that U.N. monitors, cameras, and then they have a weapon? Tell me the
difference, that`s what I need to know, David.

CORN: There are lots of differences. Let`s begin with -- they`re getting
rid of two-thirds of their centrifuges. They`re taking them out of one
entire facility, you know, they are allowing more -- these are deeper and
more intrusive inspections that what happen in North Korea. You say that
maintain a nuclear apparatus, it`s really not true. It`s not going to
function the way it`s been functioning.


CORN: And the question also is, what is the alternative? There`s no way
you get a hardest sanction regime that what President Obama pull together
in a multilateral ways. So if you don`t try this deal (inaudible) pulled
off, you have one course of action which is military action.

BOTEACH: Well, the Washington...

SCHULTZ: (Inaudible), we got to run. Rabbi -- go ahead Rabbi, quickly
comment on that.

BOTEACH: The Washington Post said today that North Korea developed nuclear
weapons with 2,000 centrifuges, Iran has been left with 6,500 centrifuges,
they can build...


BOTEACH: ... bombs that`s the purpose of the program.

SCHULTZ: We`ll leave it there. Rabbi Shmuley, David Corn...

CORN: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: ... good to have you with us tonight, we`ll have you back for

CORN: Thank you, Ed.

BOTEACH: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, the quick fix questions still surround Indiana`s
revise religious law, Rapid Response Panel on that is next.

Stay with us, we`ll be right back.

Market Wrap.

Stocks end to short in trading week with some gains, the Dow`s up 65
points, the S&P up 7, the NASDAQ add 6 points.

Oil price is close down nearly 2 percent after Iran and world powers agreed
on a nuclear deal framework. Prices were down as much as 5 percent after
that announcement.

And jobless claims unexpectedly fell last week, dropping by 20,000 to
268,000, the government releases it`s closely watch March jobs report

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: And we are back thanks for watching tonight here on the Ed show.

Indiana lawmakers say the fix is in.

Today, Republican leaders introduce changes to the religious freedom
restoration law. The rewrite states, business could not refuse service
based on sexual orientation or gender identity, the law cannot provide a
legal defense in a civil action suit. The law also states religious
organizations are exempt.

State Democrats say it doesn`t go far enough and the CEO of Angie`s list
agrees. He says the changes don`t get to the heart of the issue.

"There was no repeal of the law and no end to discrimination of homosexuals
in Indiana. Employers in most of the state can fire a person simply for
being lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender or questioning".

In Arkansan, a strip down version of the religious freedom bill pass,
Governor Asa Hutchinson back down on the signing of the original bill and
within last hour, the Governor of Arkansas signed the revised bill.

Senator Tom Cotton says criticism of the religious freedom bill was blown
out of proportion.


SEN. TOM COTTON, (R) ARKANSAS: I also think it`s important that we have a
sense of perspective, that our priorities. In Iran, they hang you for the
crime of being gay.


SCHULTZ: And in North Dakota, it`s legal to discriminate based on sexual
orientation and identity.

Today, the state`s largest newspaper, the Forum called on lawmakers to fix
a law before North Dakota becomes the laughing stock of the country.

Meanwhile, owners of an Indiana pizza parlor, well, they have become just

Owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton, Indiana said they support the law
and would refuse to cater a same sex wedding. They receive the flawed (ph)
of bad reviews and had to close their doors on Wednesday. A donation
website pooped up to help the business.

It looks like the free market is pretty much at work in Indiana.

The law is officially 2016 campaign issue. Republican presidential
contenders, Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee defended Indiana`s original law.
Jeb Bush tried to modify his previously supportive stance of Governor

The sport world remains a platform for social change in activism. The
coaches for each of the Final Four teams in the NCAA tournament issued a
statement opposing Indiana`s law today. They said each of us strongly
supports the positions of the NCAA and our respective institution on the
matter that discrimination of any kind should not be tolerated.

Voices around the country are coming out loud and clear for social change.

Joining me tonight, Indiana State Representative Ed DeLaney is with us and
also George Takei, Actor and Activist, great to have both of you with us.

Mr. Takei, what would be a good fix based on what you know of the Indiana
law? Would it be just a total repeal, you know, start over? What do you
think is going to satisfy most folks in the country on this law?

GEORGE TAKEI, Actor And Activist: Well, a total repeal is going back to
square of one. I think what we need in states like Indiana or Arkansas is
a law that protects LGBT people from as you said being fired. They -- in
Indiana, you can be fired if you are LGBT with impunity.

So we need those protections to ensure that LGBT people are part of the
Indiana community or part of the Arkansas community. We want equality.

And to me it`s very interesting that the people that introduce this bill
who claim that it`s not discriminatory with a very same people that tried
to amend the state constitution to ban marriage equality.

So we know what their agenda is and now that this bill has been nullified,
we just go back to where we were before. So what we need to really have
good change is a bill that would protect the LGBT people.

SCHULTZ: OK. Rep. DeLaney, do you think Indiana can reach what Mr. Takei
just described?

STATE REP. ED DELANEY, (D) INDIANA: Mr. Takei got it exactly right. We`re
backward where we were a couple weeks ago so that the religious freedom
bill is not an additional weapon against people of a different sexual
orientation. So we kind of help a little bit there.

The Speaker of the House refused to commit to hearing a bill, even hearing
a bill that would preclude discrimination based on sexual orientation or
sexual identity. Yes. But there`s been a great education. They now know
what the terms mean, they now know what serious, they now know there`s real
opposition. So the Speaker is learning but he is not yet prepared to even
agree that we could have a formal vote and debate in this session, let
alone even in next year.

Meanwhile, the Governors...

SCHULTZ: Even with all of the pushback, I find this interesting, Mr.
DeLaney. Even with all of the corporate pushback and the dollars that are
at stake and the injurious atmosphere to the economy of Indiana, they are
still got their feet dried and concrete on this?

DELANEY: Yes, sir. The Speaker and the President pro tem (ph) of our
Senate stood when 15 or 20 leading business executives who to a person
said, let`s do this little fix and then let`s get the big deal. Let`s go
forward and protect folks on these issues. And even though they stood
there, the Speaker and the President pro tem (ph) have not agreed that we
can vote on this issue, let along what way we would vote.

So that -- there is a lot of learning going on...

SCHULTZ: Well...

DELANEY: But I got to tell you, they are learning. They`re slow but
they`re come along, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. But well, it`s a sad....

TAKEI: We have a lot of friends.

SCHULTZ: ... it`s a sad state of fears, no doubt.

DELANEY: It is, no doubt.

SCHULTZ: Do you have a lot of friends, Mr. Takei?

TAKEI: We have a lot of friends in Indiana particularly in Indianapolis.
And they are outraged.

I think it`s for the people of Indiana to know the kind of legislators that
they have. Representative DeLaney, I think stands for the best of Indiana.

Indiana has a lot of good people but these people that are advocating for
discrimination are the -- I like to think are the people in the minority
and the people of Indiana need to do something about it. People like...


TAKEI: ... those legislators have to go and...

DELANEY: Well, they are paying attention -- Mr. Takei, they are paying
attention and 95 percent of our people are more -- are in favor being fair
to everybody. I don`t think that`s an issue. It`s just the politicians
are little slow. The public is ahead of them. They will catch up and I
hope the damage in the meanwhile isn`t too high.

I think was out on the streets were crowded with people here for the Final
Four. It`s wonderful and we want to continue that and I think that will
eventually tramp this whole issue.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. And Mr. Takei...


TAKEI: Those (inaudible) politicians are doing real damage to Indiana. We

SCHULTZ: There`s no question about -- there`s no doubt about that. But I
do want to leave you with this opportunity to speak to this, Mr. Takei,
there have been past comments that have been well-documented by Governor
Pence. That clearly is a belief system on his part. Is that something
that can be changed?

TAKEI: Well, he is a politician and when the pressure was on them, even at
that point, he couldn`t really see what that religious freedom bill said
because he kept saying that it`s the a mirror image of all the other 19
states as well as the federal 1993 bill.

Ed, there`s a dramatic difference there. And so I think he comes from a
position where he`s not going to change his ways.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think he was using that statement as a decoy...

TAKEI: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: ... when he knows exactly -- he knows exactly what this bill is
and this was his best attempt to try to get it through and it`s horribly
unfortunate. I do want to show you the cover of the Fargo Forum, the
headline that is up right now because of the state of North Dakota.

North Dakota House stops sexual orientation discrimination bill by a margin
of 2-to-1. I mean that is amazing.

DELANEY: We`re cutting along. We`ll get that here in Indiana.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. All right. State Representative Ed DeLaney and George
Takei, great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your time.

TAKEI: Thank you very much, gentleman.

DELANEY: It`s good to be here.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

We`ve got more news on today`s historic deal with Iran, coming up. Stay
with us, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Still to come on the Ed Show, more reaction to today`s historic
tentative agreement with Iran on their nuclear future.

Stay with us, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, isn`t it ironic the most obstructed
President in the history of the country is on the verge of making the world
a whole lot safer.

I`m joined tonight by Bob Shrum, Democratic Strategist, also with us
tonight is David Corn, MSNBC Political Analyst and of course with Mother
Jones, gentlemen, good to have you with us.

Going back to a New York Times story of 2007, President Obama said that he
was going to take a different approach with Iran. The President envisions
a new Iran approach. And he said that the Senator at the time said that if
Iran would pretty much behave themselves and he would come to the table to
not seek regime change and would seek some type of nuclear deal.

Approving, it`s a marathon not a sprint, Bob, in today`s news, what`s your

President has done is extraordinary, what Secretary Kerry has done is
extraordinary. He has proved that persistence can really pay off here.

This is not a bad deal. It`s actually a better deal when people thought we
were going to get. And what the Republicans are doing by politicizing, it
is very dangerous.

You know, in 1963, when President Kennedy negotiated the Test Ban Treaty,
there are rumblings on the right, there was a real fear that it would be
revolve among hard-liners in the Pentagon. President Eisenhower came up
and endorsed the treaty. The Senate Republican leader Everett Dirksen came
out and endorsed the treaty and that was the end of it.

The natural person to do that here by the way would be George W. Bush but
he can`t because his brother Jeb is running for President in a party whose
base is absolutely opposed to progress here.

SCHULTZ: Interesting take. No question about it in analysis.

David Corn, how are Republicans going to respond? I mean, it`s been
several hours, we haven`t heard anything yet.

CORN: Well, I think they have a bit of problem on their hands. I think we
now see why they were so vociferous in opposing this deal before reaching
this milestone point.

And there is no deal yet. There`s just an outline. It`s still can fall
apart in the next few months. But I think they are scared of being faced
with two options or having the public be faced with two options.

One is trying a deal and seeing if that works and can be maintained and
restrain the Iranian nuclear program or in essence, going to war.

I think it`s pretty clear after what`s happened over the last decade of --
and so, the American public does not want to see another war in the Middle
East. And yet, I think...


CORN: ... a lot people on the right want to see that but if there`s a
choice of deal, advocating war isn`t look really bad. I think they just
kind of back themselves into a corner and they may be waiting for Bibi
Netanyahu to try to lead them out of that corner but it would be very hard
mission, given where the American public is these days.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. One bit of irony here today is that, you ran the Kerry
campaign in 2004, Bob Shrum, and during one of the debates, Bob, your
candidate and our now Secretary of the State John Kerry was asked, what is
his biggest concern? And he said nuclear proliferation.

And here we are 11 years later -- 12 years later, you know, you`ve got John
Kerry sitting across from the Iranians doing the deal.

SHRUM: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: I mean, I find that rather -- how -- what do you think he is
thinking tonight?

SHRUM: Oh, I think he is, first of all, ideally suited for this job but
secondly, I think he is cautiously optimistic that this is a big
breakthrough that as David says. It could fall apart but I don`t think
it`s going to fall apart. I think there`s momentum behind it.

And if that momentum is sustained, we`re going to live in a kind of
different world. Iran may even begin to become part of the international
order again.

So I think it`s a very, very big breakthrough. It`s going to make a
fundamental difference. And I think it`s a big feather in the cap for both
Secretary Kerry and the President.

And the Republicans by the way are way out (inaudible) on this. David`s
right about it.

CORN: Yeah.

SHRUM: What are they going to do, go to war?

SCHULTZ: Well, it is, an issue of war or peace. I mean, if they deep-six,
it`s going to be on their shoulders. There is no question about it.

Gentlemen, great to have you with us, Bob Shrum and David Corn, here on the
Ed Show tonight, thank you.

And that is the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening,


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