The Ed Show for Wednesday, April 8th, 2015
Read the transcript to the Wednesday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: April 8, 2015
Guest: Lanny Davis, Anne Gearan, Richard Viguerie, John Nichols, Susan
Sadlowski Garza, Ron Mott, Benjamin Crump, Jumaane Williams, Wesley Bell
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Live from New York. Let`s get to work.
Tonight, Rand`s Hillary plans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL, (R) KENTUCKY: There`s a lot of stuff there that is, I
think, going to shake the confidence of Americans.
SCHULTZ: Plus, big money and Mayor 1 percent wins in Chicago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Emanuel had a huge money advantage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayor Emanuel must (inaudible).
SCHULTZ: And the latest on the officer involved shooting in South
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI is now investigating to see if any civil rights
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if there was no witness to come forward?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Lord.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.
Did you hear that comment from Rand Paul? There`s just a lot of stuff
there. What a strategy.
Senator Paul, if that was his campaign strategy and it is very simple and
to the point, he plans to relentlessly attack Hillary Clinton.
Here we go. Minutes after his campaign announcement yesterday, Rand Paul
sat down with Politico. He immediately attacked Hillary Clinton`s honesty
over her use of her private e-mail server.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: I think you should obey the law and I think nobody should be above
the law. And I think, clearly, Hillary Clinton, by all appearances seemed
to be evading the law.
She is asking us to trust her that she sorted out government from non-
government e-mail after she didn`t obey the rules to begin with and now
she`s saying, "Well, you need to trust me even though I broke the rules,
and maybe the law to begin with. And yet all also just trust me I just
destroyed the server so you really have to trust me."
And I think a lot of Americans are going to say, "That doesn`t sort of pass
the smell test."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So, if you`re keeping score between Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, you
have to give credit to Paul, he`s way out in front when it comes to bashing
Clinton. He`s also taking issue with the Clinton Foundation. It`s just
not Hillary, it`s the foundation.
The Senator handed (ph) that there`s plenty of material that he could use
to go after Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: I think when you combine that with the shenanigans that have been
going on at the Clinton Foundation, and when we see this trail of money
that`s going round about from government to foundations to Bill Clinton to
shareholders of big companies that had to be approved by Hillary Clinton
when she was Secretary of the State, there`s a lot of stuff there that is,
I think, going to shake the confidence of Americans in her ability to lead
in an honest fashion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Now, when the follow-up question there be, "do you know what the
Clinton Foundation is? Do you know how many people around the world they
have helped? Just kind of a sidebar thing there. It`s a great strategy.
Here`s what it is. Just go appeal to the Clinton haters and jump out in
front of the parade.
Now, Rand Paul is already attacking the character of Hillary Clinton before
she has even announced. Now, that`s respect.
Meanwhile, there is evidence Rand Paul has a real problem with women
reporters. He has a history of talking down to women on television.
Here he is just this morning on the "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, TODAY SHOW: You seem to have changed over the years.
You once said Iran was not a threat, now you say it is. You once proposed
ending foreign aid to Israel you now support it, at least for the time
being. And you once offered to drastically cut --
PAUL: Well, before we go --
GUTHRIE: Well wait, wait, wait.
PAUL: Before we go --
GUTHRIE: Once drastically, wanted to cut defense spending and now you want
to increase at 16 percent? I just wondered if you mellowed out.
PAUL: Yeah, why don`t we let me explain instead of talking over me, OK?
Before we go through a litany of things you say I`ve changed on, why don`t
you ask me a question, have I changed my opinion?
GUTHRIE: Have you changed your opinion?
PAUL: That was a sort of -- that`s a better way to approach it.
GUTHRIE: OK. Is Iran still not a threat?
PAUL: No, no, no, you`ve editorialized. No, no, no, no, listen. You`ve
editorialized. Let me answer your question.
PAUL: You asked a question and you say, "Have your views changed?" instead
of editorializing and saying my views have changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Just how to win friends and influence people. He`s number one.
Rand Paul`s views certainly have changed. The Senator has flipped on Iran,
foreign aid and defense spending.
Savannah Guthrie was asking what I think is a very honest question about
Rand Paul`s history of reversing positions on issues. And there`s no
reason for Rand Paul to patronize an anchor for doing their job.
Now last night, Sean Hannity and this is how you do it.
Sean Hannity asked Rand Paul a similar question about Iran. Well, his
reaction was quite different.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: I want to give you a chance to respond. They used
to quote of yours back in 2007 where you said it`s ridiculous to think that
Iran is a real threat to our national security. That was 2007.
PAUL: It`s been a while ago.
HANNITY: OK. Eight years ago.
PAUL: You know, things do change over time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: They sure do. Hannity`s interview was an hour of softball
questions and Paul easily answered and no follow-up. Rand Paul had another
problem on CNBC with discussing tax holidays.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: The whole purpose of doing this is to bring money home. There`s two
KELLY EVANS, CNBC: Right, but it works that first year, Senator. But
their concern is down the road.
PAUL: Hey, let me finish. Hey, hey, Kelly.
EVANS: I`m sorry, go ahead.
PAUL: Calm down a bit here, Kelly. Let me answer the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Again, Rand Paul is belittling a female anchor for asking
questions or getting to the point which he has a hard time with.
The early assessment is that the Senator from Kentucky is arrogant,
demeaning, disrespectful and clearly doesn`t know how to run for president,
at least not early on he doesn`t.
This is really a guy who has a hard time finding the high road.
Ironically, that might be his attraction.
The latest PPP poll has Hillary Clinton up on Rand Paul by only four
points. Now, it`s going to be a long race ahead. But if this is any
indication of the way Rand Paul is going to be selecting interviews and
treating people, it`s going to be very interesting.
It would seem to me that if he wants to cut out a different clothe as a
candidate for the right-wing that he should be welcoming interviews where
he`s not so rigid when he is asked question about, what are your views on
this as opposed to back in 2007.
Interesting how he treated Savannah Guthrie, interesting how he treated
Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question, do you think Rand Paul`s strategy of personally
attacking Hillary Clinton will work?
Our new system, you go to polls.msnbc.com/ed. You cast your vote there.
We`ll bring you the results later on in this show.
Fore more, let me bring in Lanny Davis, who is a columnist for "The Hill",
Anne Gearan who was a political reporter for the "Washington Post", and
also with us tonight, Richard Viguerie who some call the godfather of the
conservative movement. He`s a conservative strategist and Chairman of
ConservativeHQ.com. Great to have all of you with us tonight.
Mr. Viguerie, I can`t wait. I`ve got to go to you first. Is it Ted Cruz
or Rand Paul early on?
RICHARD VIGUERIE, CONSERVATIVEHQ.COM: Well, they`re kind of a tied in
terms of appeal to the conservative based. One of the things Ed, that most
candidates don`t appreciate, in fact, most candidates -- I don`t think know
how to run for president. The number one, you`ve got to have a base and
both Ted Cruz has a base and Rand Paul has a base as does Jeb Bush.
Most of the other candidates are lacking in its significant base. So, I
think they`re both going to buy for conservative support. There`s only two
candidates in the race that I can see right now likely to be candidates
that can appeal to the conservative movement as their base.
None of the other candidates going to have a strong appeal to the
conservative movement base and Rand Paul and Ted Cruz right now kind of
divide that base.
SCHULTZ: OK. So, they`re dividing the base so you would give them some
room here. You think that they have a legitimate shot in getting the
nomination. That`s how I would take that answer. All right.
SCHULTZ: OK. Anne, Rand Paul, is he going to be immediate critic or is he
going to be a serious candidate? Your thoughts.
ANNE GEARAN, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I certainly think, he is -- as you
identified in your lead-in, he`s taking a very early swipe at Hillary
Clinton here. I mean all of the Republicans are attacking her to some
degree and the Republican message regime (ph) that is behind them is
attacking her everyday, but he made it a point and a point in his
introductory speech and in many of the interview he did afterwards to go
directly at her.
So, that`s -- I mean, that`s clearly going to be one place where he thinks
he can make his mark. He`s always been a bit of a touchy testy guy.
I`ve never interviewed him myself so I don`t have any personal experience,
but you see it a bit in many interviews he`s done over the time, over his
whole time in the Senate where he just gets his back up a little bit.
SCHULTZ: He does.
GEARAN: And, yeah. I mean, that may play well for him. I don`t know. I
mean, it`s got a -- he certainly isn`t losing any points in going after a
lot of mainstream media with exactly the base that he`s trying to appeal
SCHULTZ: Lanny Davis, Hillary Clinton wrote a book "Living History". Are
we going to be defending history? Are liberals going to have to put up
with this? I mean, this is clearly as the strategy of Rand Paul. Is this
is a problem?
LANNY DAVIS, COLUMNIST, THE HILL: It`s not a problem. I have to just do
one side bar that it`s an honor to be on the same show with Richard
Viguerie even though I disagree with him on almost everything. He is
somebody who can articulate to consider the principles without personally
attacking people which is what Rand Paul does incorrectly.
He is an attractive candidate, Mr. Paul. I`ve actually written a column
about him years ago when he ran for the Senate, intrigued by his
libertarian consistency along with his dad. But he begins his campaign in
the last year is consistently being nasty and personally attacking Hillary
Clinton rather than beginning with the words I disagree with her position
and debating the issues because he has to appeal among independents.
He`s going to lose any appeal that he has by going nasty and I think I
shouldn`t be giving Rand Paul advice because I hope he`s the nominee but --
SCHULTZ: What do you think about that Mr. Viguerie? What do you think
VIGUERIE: Well, I likewise am thrilled to be on with my friend Lanny.
It`s been a long time.
SCHULTZ: We got a lot love going on here tonight. But anyway --
VIGUERIE: Anyway, one of things that it`s going to be important for
Republican candidate to convince the Republican primary caucus voters, that
they`re going to fight, we`ve kind of the quite frankly as concerned.
We`re just very disappointed in most Republican leaders John Boehner, Mitch
McConnell, Mitt Romney, John McCain --
SCHULTZ: They`re not fighting?
VIGUERIE: -- they did not fight for our views and values. So, whether
it`s Ted Cruz or Scott Walker or Rand Paul we`re going to looking somebody
who going to articulate the difference between Republicans and Democrats.
SCHULTZ: Well do you want Hillary Clinton, do you want to run against
Hillary Clinton Mr. Viguerie.
VIGUERIE: Absolutely, I think conservatives, Republicans would prefer
Hillary over anybody else, she`s got a big track record, she` got lot of
baggage and we -- she`s a known quantity and I think that she`s going to
have a various steep hill to climb to convince the American voters that
VIGUERIE: She kind of a magis of Nixon except without the charm.
SCHULTZ: Lanny what about that?
DAVIS: Well, Viguerie could resist getting a little personal shot after I
said such nice things about him.
Look, Hillary Clinton has to earn the votes of moderates and independent
voters. Her base is very strong, women voters and progressive Democrats
very strong, but she`s got to work hard from the very first moment when she
announces or if and when, and that hard work has to be articulate issues
that people like Richard Viguerie will disagree with and have a debate that
will make the American people proud but not throwing mud --
DAVIS: -- and really dignifying what you heard from Rand Paul which is
mudslinging and the American people are tired.
SCHULTZ: Anne, how do you think the American public is going to respond to
what Rand Paul said day one on the campaign trail that Clinton Foundation,
there`s a lot of stuff there, Hillary hasn`t been truthful. Does this is
have lot a leg in the media world, I mean does this story have legs, is
this going to go somewhere, is this going to be a viable strategy?
GEARAN: Well, I mean it went somewhere today because he was pretty strong
and -- that those attacks were more binding and more direct than we`ve
heard from Republicans on her so it was news today. But remember, he
wasn`t really talking to the American electorate, at large today he was
talking to Republicans, he was firing up a base that he hopes to not only
grab on to but to expand. I was really interested to hear how mainstream
Republican he sounded and not, you know, fringy libertarian in his remarks
yesterday, I mean his clearly going for a wider base.
SCHULTZ: How do you think Hillary Clinton is going to respond of this kind
of campaign against her Lanny?
DAVIS: On issues, I`ve known her for a very, very long time since law
school when her last name wasn`t Clinton. And from the very first day I
meet her to this day, she`s very fact-oriented, she`s very issue-oriented
and I think she`s open to changing her position on issues based upon new
facts. And that kind of a debate with a thoughtful conservative will help
the country whether she wins or loses, but she is not the kind of person or
candidate who likes to engage in --
DAVIS: -- . personal attacks and will probably not do so, even once in a
while when provoke she`s tempted to attack back, I don`t think she will.
SCHULTZ: Yeah, and you know Mr. Viguerie, Bill Clinton`s got a pretty good
record to beat new (ph) conservatives. I mean, the story today is that,
you know, he`s going to be a backstage strategist and it`s probably going
to evolve from that --
VIGUERIE: Well, no question, I think --
SCHULTZ: I mean if you run against the Clintons you guys better be ready
VIGUERIE: Her biggest asset Ed, no question, is her husband. He`s the
master strategies. But Rand Paul is a new Republican, he`s going to do
something that no other Republican right now is showing that they`re
capable of doing and be very attractive candidate to a lot of young people.
He`s a magnet for young people, also you going to see Rand Paul talk about
reforming the criminal justice system, and talking about the constitution.
We haven`t had Republican candidates for president that talks about --
VIGUERIE: -- reform the criminal justice system, constitution and other
issues and appeal to a wide range of Americas, particularly young people.
SCHULTZ: All right, Richard Viguerie, Anne Gearan and also Lanny Davis.
Great to have you for the discussion tonight, I appreciate you being here.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at polls.msnbc.com/Ed. We`ll
have the results right after the break. Share you thoughts with us on
Twitter, like us on Facebook @Edshow. You get my video podcast at
And of course coming up, we got a lot more. Big money helps Mayor 1
percent win reelection in Chicago.
And later on the show, video of a police involved shooting in South
Carolina is the talk of the country. It brings a new outcome, ended a vert
Stay with us, we`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: And here is where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll.
Seventy-eight percent of you say, "No, that`s not going to be a good
strategy Rand Paul to personally attack Hilary Clinton."
We got a lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stay with us, we`ll be right
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RAHM EMMANUEL, (D) CHICAGO: Now I hear you about the importance of
building a new Chicago where everybody gets a chance to participate in
building this great city, we are the city that works and that means it has
to work for everyone, in every neighborhood in every part of the city in
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And we are back, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanuel came out on top on
Tuesday`s historic runoff election, but his victory speech sounded more
like a concession. Mayor 1 percent as what they call him, he sounds like
he`s learned his lesson. Money might get you reelected but it sure can`t
buy you love and he`s out to get it.
Emmanuel took home nearly 56 percent of the vote, challenger Jesus "Chuy"
Garcia grabbed a solid 44 percent and he was heavily out funded. It`s a
staggering feat and a real testament to grassroots campaigning when you
consider the amount of money that went into this race. Emmanuel raised
nearly $24 million to get reelected which of course dwarfed the $6 million
Garcia didn`t walk away without leaving his mark. Several incumbent
Chicago aldermen aligned with Emmanuel were kicked into the curve in
yesterday`s runoff election. Now comes the real test, we`ll see if Rahm
Emmanuel really brings the winds of change to the windy city.
Joining me tonight John Nichols Washington correspondent of "The Nation"
magazine, also with us tonight Susan Sadlowski Garza who`s a candidate for
Chicago`s 10th Ward Alderman.
Susan, I want to ask you first, great to have both of you with us, has you
race been called yet? I understand it was like seven votes, what is the
latest on your race?
SUSAN SADLOWSKI GARZA, CANDIDATE CHICAGO`S WARD ALDERMAN: All the
precincts have been counted and we`re up by 54. So, we consider ourselves
SCHULTZ: OK. So if that is the case, John Nichols, this means that there
are six new faces on the city council. In a sense is that a loss for
Emanuel? I mean is it going to be harder for him to drive the hard policy
on public education the way he has in the past?
JOHN NICHOLS, THE NATION: Of course it`s a loss. If Susan Sadlowski Garza
who`s with us tonight gets on the council, you`re putting somebody who`s
coming out of the public schools unto the council. And a number of these
other candidates are grassroots folks who came up because they were so
concerned about the way that Rahm Emanuel was running things.
But it`s also important to understand Ed. That this runoff for Mayor and
these number runoffs for city council seats was unprecedented.
Chicago politics has been shaken up in a very profound way. And Rahm
Emanuel may have had a four or five to one spending advantage and he may
have had all the power of incumbency to get him through, but he lost 44
percent of the vote, 250,000 Chicagoans and voted for an insurgent
candidate who wasn`t even running six months ago.
SCHULTZ: Susan what about the money? I mean, I think most folks in
Chicago thought that Rahm was going to win because of the money? What are
GARZA: Well, you know, Rahm Emanuel came into the race $24 million, and
one of the things that I think is really significant is -- and on the 10th
ward I was outspent as well, but we had a people power campaign. And I
think it`s pretty extraordinary that -- what we did in such a short amount
of time. He just sit -- he had enough time to get those people together
and push it forward but what he accomplished was truly amazing.
SCHULTZ: Now, the teacher`s union was against the Mayor although you get
elected along with others who are allied with public education. Do you
think the Mayor will change in any way, shape or reform?
GARZA: I`m hoping that he`s learned his lesson and, you know, starts to
look at people like people and not just numbers. You know, we all have to
work together and make Chicago a better place and I`m hoping he`s ready to
SCHULTZ: John Nichols, (inaudible) in money, who wins?
NICHOLS: Even money in this race, I think Chuy Garcia would have won.
It`s as simple as that. The fact to the matter is that polling early on
showed that Mayor Emanuel had really offended a lot of people. Closing
dozens of schools, making the cuts really error (ph) toward downtown, I
think there`s a lot of anger at him. And frankly, when you have $25
million you can change some attitudes. I think he did that, but I also
think it`s important. If you look at his ads, he spent a lot of time
apologizing to the people of Chicago.
SCHULTZ: Is that right? I didn`t see any of his ads. So he was trying to
kind of reinvent himself in a sense with voters, is that the correct
terminology do you think Susan?
GARZA: Well, you know, yeah, I think so. But, you know, Chuy won a 10th
ward. I mean he won the 10th ward by a bigger margin than I did. So,
there`s a lot to be said. You know, with what`s happening in Chicago
politics, I mean people have spoken. People are tired at the status quo
and I think this is just the beginning.
SCHULTZ: OK. So how important did labor, their role in all of this play
GARZA: Labor has always an important role -- played an important role in
everything I do. I was asked the question one time, "Oh, you`re going to
be in, you know, the pocket of the labor unions", but traditionally labor
unions have always stood for the working class. They`ve always been on the
side of the working, you know, working people. So, who doesn`t want to be
in the pocket of the working class?
The working class -- the labor movement is starting to evolve and push
forward and I`m proud to be part of it.
SCHULTZ: Chuy Garcia had over 6,000 people, John Nichols, on the ground
social networking that we`ve never seen before by the Democrats in Chicago,
but it wasn`t enough. I mean is this is a classic example of how money
just gets it done?
NICHOLS: I think it is an example of the power of money and we should be
deeply concerned about that. We ought to be addressing money at every
level, national state and local politics.
Money is a special powerful in local campaigns because it can come in fast
and move a lot of advertising. One candidate can have the advantage on
T.V. But when all of that is said, I think the thing to understand about
Chicago is, historically movements for change in Chicago take time to
Harold Washington run for Mayor the first time in 1977. He only got 10
percent of the vote. Six years later he was elected Mayor.
NICHOLS: Chuy Garcia, run for the first time this year got 44 percent.
We`ll see what the future holds.
SCHULTZ: John Nichols, Susan Sadlowski Garza, congratulations on your win
and thanks for joining us tonight here on the Ed Show.
GARZA: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Still ahead, a police involved shooting in South Carolina
reignites the discussion about police brutality in America.
Rapid Response Panel weighs in, in the latest from South Carolina.
And next, the jury delivers a guilty verdict to the Houston Bombing trial.
We`ll have the latest details. What`s next with the Boston bombers?
Stay with us. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN BRASSARD, BOSTON BOMBING SURVIVOR: He was all in. He`s a grown man
and made choices knowing what the outcome could be and knowing what the
consequence would be. And he made the choice to go ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And following the breaking news out of Boston, after just 11
hours of deliberation, the jury has reached a verdict in the trial of
suspected Boston Marathon bomber, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Tsarnaev has been
found guilty on all 30 counts against him including the charged, use of a
weapon of mass destruction. The trial now moves into the penalty phase
NBCs Jay Gray has the details from Boston.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY GRAY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Guilty, the verdict repeated 30 times
this afternoon. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev found guilty on every count he faced in
the marathon bombing attack. The verdicts now triggered a penalty phase in
this trial where the jury will hear more evidence and more testimony as
they now decide if Tsarnaev will be put to death or spend the rest of his
life in prison.
MICHAEL COYNE: If this isn`t a textbook example for a death penalty case
there probably isn`t one.
GRAY: Trying to save his life, his defense team will likely expand on the
message they`ve echoed throughout this case, that Tsarnaev would pulled
into the block (ph) by his older brother Tamerlan who they say was the
mastermind of the attack.
COYNE: We will see a lot of the evidence put forward by his side to show
the ridiculously dysfunctional family dynamic that this young man was
GRAY: The jury will also get a longer look at Tsarnaev who as this point
has sat at the defense table seemingly unaffected during the proceedings.
TOM HOODS, LEGAL ANALYST: As the watch very carefully, it would be helpful
for the defense if, you know, he would show some kind of emotion. He would
show some kind of remorse.
GRAY: That emotion not evident this afternoon as Tsarnaev have stood
staring straight ahead as the verdict was announced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: NBC`s Ron Mott joins us from Boston this evening. Several
victims and family members spoke to the press after the verdict, Ron. What
are you hearing from them tonight?
RON MOTT, NBC NEWS: Hey there. Well they`re hearing that they were happy
with the verdict obviously and this is not really a surprise for anyone who
lives in Massachusetts.
I spoke to one victim earlier today. She was surprised that the jury
deliberated for a second day. She thought this would all be wrapped up
yesterday because the defense for all purposes said he was guilty from day
one. That that is him, you`re going to see in surveillance tapes. He did
What the defense is saying is that they have differences with the
government`s case about why he did it. Not so much the facts of the case
but why. So, their case is really set to begin in earnest now with this
penalty phase, Ed.
They`re going to call a lot of witnesses. They`re going to talk a lot
about Dzhokhar Tsarnaev`s upbringing. Perhaps talk about the divorce of
his parents and they moved back to Europe. So, we`re going to hear a lot
more about him as a person and the influence and the relationship that he
have with his brother.
The defense has always said that if not for Tamerlan Tsarnaev, that`s his
brother who was killed in the shootout with police. There would not have
been a Boston marathon bombing and the government conversely is going to
say there was evidence, digital evidence especially on computers and
cellphones and things of that sort, that showed that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev or
at least the possession of those electronic materials that he had showed
some radicalism developing. And so, we`re going to see an interesting case
here for the jurors, Ed.
This part of the trial, the criminal part of the trial is over, very black
and white and I would suggest that perhaps much easier for this jury than
this next phase will be because now, you`re getting into something personal
and whether they have enough evidence here to say that this young man needs
to die for the crimes he`s committed or that they believe he should spend
the rest of his life in prison.
So, it`s going to be a fascinating next two or three weeks. We believe
they may get underway on Monday, sometime next week perhaps. This is going
to be fascinating to watch and the witnesses who come forward.
We do expect that there will be a number of victims who will come forward
to give the court some of their heartfelt opinions about this case, how
it`s changed their lives. How that terrible day, almost two years ago
affected them and their families, Ed.
SCHULTZ: All right. Ron Mott with us from Boston tonight with that
report. Thanks, Ron. I appreciate it very much.
Stick around. Rapid Response Panel is next here on the Ed Show. We`ll be
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC MARKET WRAP: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Stocks finished with modest gains. The Dow climbs by 27 points, the S&P
adds 5, the NASDAQ rises 40.
It`s a big day for big deals. Royal Dutch Shell is buying British oil and
gas producer, BG Group for $70 billion.
Meanwhile, drug-maker Mylan is offering to buy rival Perrigo for nearly $29
And another steep slide for oil prices which fell more than 6 percent
today, erasing all the gains for the year on a bigger than expected supply
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. A police shooting in South Carolina
has captivated the country again.
This time there is footage of a South Carolina police officer shooting an
apparently unarmed black man. This is reigniting the national conversation
Seen in this video, Officer Michael Slager fired eight shots at the back of
Walter Scott following a traffic stop.
White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest commented on this today saying
that body cameras could have been a game changer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Even the investigators
themselves have acknowledged that when this video evidence was presented,
that it changed the way that they were looking at this case. And I do
think that it`s an example of how body cameras worn by police officers
could have a positive impact in terms of building trust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Earlier today the Mayor of North Charleston in South Carolina
announced an order for 251 body cameras following the incident.
NBC Sarah Dallof has the details on this tragedy in South Carolina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POLICE CHIEF EDDIE DRIGGERS, SOUTH CAROLINA: I have been praying for
SARAH DALLOF, NBC: In a press conference that was frequently interrupted
by cries from demonstrators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For peace.
DALLOF: North Charleston leaders reported the firing of Patrolman Michael
Slager charged with murder in the death of Walker Scott as he fled
following a traffic stop. The deadly confrontation caught on cellphone
DRIGGERS: I have watched the video. And I was sickened by what I saw.
DALLOF: The recording shows Officer Slager firing eight shots at Scott as
he runs away. After Scott, falls, Slager appears to return to where the
shots were fired picked something up and dropped it near Scott`s body.
DRIGGERS: There are questions that I have in my mind that I can`t answer
DALLOF: The Mayor and Chief of Police visited Scott`s family Wednesday
morning to express their condolences.
Parents also appeared on the "Today" show and said Scott a 50-year-old
father of four may have run because he owed back child supports.
While the video was painful to watch, they are grateful it has surfaced.
WALTER SCOTT SR., VICTIM`S FATHER: It would have never come to life. They
would have swept it under the rug like they`ve done in many others.
DALLOF: Meanwhile, North Charleston`s Mayor announced he`s ordered 150
body cameras in addition to more than 100 paid for via grant. All officers
on the force will soon be required to wear them.
The power of video evident in Walter Scott`s last moments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight on Rapid Response panel, Attorney Benjamin
Crump with us, Jumaane Williams who is a New York City Councilman and also,
Dr. James Peterson, Director of Africana Studies, Lehigh University and
MSNBC contributor. Gentlemen, thanks for your time tonight.
Mr. Crump, this officer was in-charge until the video tape surfaced and you
wrote about this in the New York Times Today with an op-ed. Why? Why does
it take a piece of video tape?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY: You know it`s troubling because the narrative
Ed, the narrative is always the same, "I felt fear of my life, I felt
threatened, that unarmed person reached for my gun", and America continues
to accept this narrative over and over again from every police department
across the country.
And when is America going to start to challenge these narratives? But for
this video, it would have been accepted again. It was accepted in Michael
Brown. It was accepted in Chavis Carter. It was accepted in every case of
a police shooting of an unarmed of color that you can think of. When are
we going to challenge this?
SCHULTZ: Now that this tape is out, how from your professional experience,
how hard is it going to be to get a conviction?
CRUMP: Well I think with this tape is should not be hard to get a
conviction. We have Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old in Cleveland, Ohio that`s on
video. You have Eric Garner on video. So, hopefully, hopefully finally
now, America is going to say, "We`re not just going to take the police
version as the gospel."
SCHULTZ: Why isn`t every police officer in this country paying attention
to the news? How many Trayvon Martins and Michael Browns and other
situations we have to have, do they have to shoot? I mean I just find that
-- Jumaane your thoughts on what`s on holding here.
JUMAANE WILLIAMS, (D) COUNCILMAN, NEW YORK: One of the reasons is they get
away with it, right? So we haven`t yet grasp that we have a problem and
admitted that this is an issue with race and police in other issues in this
First sadly, I have to say, at least they indicted him. That`s a sad
statement to even say but at least he`s being charge with murder. I have
to -- sorry, being charged with murder, that`s the first thing.
The second is we have to remember this is happening whether the camera is
turned on or turned off. Unfortunately no one believes us unless there`s a
Second of all, look at all the things that happened. One, I want to make
sure their (ph) accountability, two he shot him in the back eight times,
lied about what happened. It appears he may have dropped the taser there
to plant evidence, lied about having given CPR when he didn`t even turn
over to get his face off the ground. It was he was shooting a game.
SCHULTZ: So, Mr. Peterson how do you unpack this yet again?
JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Yet again, I mean unfortunately, you
know, we`ve ben covering this just on your show for years now. You look at
how many cases we`ve had to come on and talk about, how many times we`ve
had to go in these communities and try to support the survivors of these
tragedies. It`s hard to make sense of it.
I`m not a big proponent of body cameras because I don`t think that that
will instantly rebuild the trust between the community and law enforcement.
I agree with both of our guests here, when you take a look at this film it
is startling and disturbing. And the pathway forward is got to be much
more comprehensive than body cameras. Look at how low the threshold for
How can we be excited about him being indicted or him being charged, or
even him being convicted? That will not restore justice to the family or
to this community or to any of the families who survived --
PETERSON: -- this horrible state sanction murders.
SCHULTZ: What do you think about that Mr. Crump?
CRUMP: No, I just think the problem is, is the culture Ed, and the culture
is, we all say that good police officers out there and nobody denies that.
Why aren`t those good police officers speaking up when they see this bad
SCHULTZ: OK, so he`s claiming that the guy went after his taser gun. OK,
so the cop must have known he was unarmed. So he starts to run away, isn`t
there a constitutional judgment here on shooting someone running away from
you who`s unarmed?
CRUMP: Absolutely, it`s the Fourth Amendment, and it`s Tennessee versus
Garner that the United States Supreme Court set in 1985 that you can`t
shoot fleeing felons.
SCHULTZ: So what change is this Jumaane?
WILLIAMS: The fact of the matter is, that how many time -- he just talked
about how low the bar is, how many times that we even get over that bar?
PETERSON: That`s right.
WILLIAMS: How many young black people have been shot dead unarmed and
nothing happens to the police officer?
PETERSON: Because of (ph) narrative
WILLIAMS: And so we have to first make something happen to that -- that`s
what should happen when you murder somebody, you should be charged with
murder, you should be found guilty. But that doesn`t happen on so many
SCHULTZ: But isn`t -- it is training as well. His instinct was to pull
the firearm --
WILLIAMS: And my question is -- narrative of what he looks at when he`s
shooting that person, it`s not make me out (ph) even a human being. This
male was running half -- how fast was he going? He could have chased after
him, he could have radioed him, he did not have to shoot him --
SCHULTZ: What`s wrong with backup?
SCHULTZ: What -- do you have to have a guy --
WILLIAMS: Michael Brown was described as a Hulk.
WILIAMS: And so what are these people seeing when they see black men is
what the problem.
CRUMP: And doesn`t this make your question every case out that didn`t have
PETERSON: You`re absolutely right. Because of the familiarity of this law
enforcement officer`s narrative prior to the release of the video, it puts
into both relief the truth or the absence of truth in all these narratives
we seeing from Darren Wilson to law enforcing with Tamir Rice to law
enforcement around Eric Garner, all those things now to me are not -- or
that the viability of them as true narrative to me now, just simply can`t
SCHULTZ: Mr. Crump, it seems like the City of North Charleston is doing a
much better job than what Ferguson did. They met with the family, they
have done a lot of things, the insurance is going to be cover his pregnant
wife, the officer who`s facing this charges. She`s eight months pregnant,
the insurance is going to be cover their, I mean they`re doing things right
or they not?
CRUMP: Well, we hope we`re (ph) learning -- the footprints of the Ferguson
is all over this one (ph), nobody wants another Ferguson in that town.
CRUMP: But I don`t want to applaud them for doing what they should have
done, they should have questioned this at the beginning when you had shots
CRUMP: -- in the back.
WILLIAM: That is right.
WILLIAM: What would have happened without this video?
WILLIAM: That`s right.
SCHULTZ: All right gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight, Benjamin
Crump, James Peterson, Jumaane Williams thanks so much.
PETERSON: Thanks Ed.
SCHULTZ: Next, the way forward for Ferguson, Missouri. We`ll talk to one
of the newly elected African-American city council members about last
night`s historic election.
Stay with us, we`ll be right back on the Ed Show.
SCHULTZ: And tonight`s two minute drill, well its UConn one more time.
University of Connecticut women`s basketball team beat their rival Notre
Dame 63-53 for the third straight NCAA championship. Senior forward
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis finished out her college career with 15 points and a
key three-pointer to seal the win for the Huskies.
It`s the 10th tournament title under the team, under the Coach Geno
Auriemma and of course he`s now tied with former UCLA men`s basketball
Coach John Wooden for the most titles for our college coach. President
Obama called the coach and said "Congratulations".
And how about this story? Off the court, an NBA All-Star scoring major
points. Oklahoma City Thunders` Russell Westbrook took home this year`s
All-Star MVP title along with a brand new car that always goes with it.
But Westbrook decided to donate his price to another MVP, a local family
services organization put him in touch with a single mom and in need of a
Westbrook surprised Kerstin Gonzales with a new Kia Sorento. This week,
the 19-year-old mother of two is set to start college later this year. She
also -- He`s also going to pay for the car`s registration and insurance
fees for the year. Westbrook said that he wanted to honor her hard work
and wants to help others anyway he can.
Stick around, lots more coming up at the Ed Show. We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, for the first time African Americans were
controlled half of the Ferguson, Missouri City Council.
Voters elected two Black candidates on Tuesday night. It`s the first
election since the fatal shooting of Michael Brown by a police officer.
Ella Jones and Wesley Bell will join the City Council with another African-
American member already on the Council.
Until Tuesday, five of six members were White. Voter turnout doubled from
the last municipal election.
Back in 2014, a report from the Justice Department concluded African-
Americans were unfairly targeted by police in Ferguson. The police chief
and city manager resigned shortly after that report was released. While
two-thirds of the residents are Black and the St. Louis suburb, a Black
majority has never been reflected in their representation. The council has
had only Black Council members since 1894.
Joining me tonight, Victorious Wesley Bell, a professor and also municipal
judge, he is now a Ferguson City Council Member Elect, great to have you
with us tonight, sir.
WESLEY BELL, FERGUSON CITY COUNCIL MEMBER ELECT: Thanks for having me.
SCHULTZ: Did you expect this? Did you see and feel this change coming?
BELL: You know it`s been a process. You know, a lot of things have
happened in our community. Things that we could have never anticipated,
but I do think we`re up for that challenge and I think the election
yesterday are indicative of that.
SCHULTZ: How about the turn out, was it something that you did expect,
we`re people motivated, can you feel that?
BELL: I`ll tell you what, early in the day I was nervous especially when
that rain hit. I was getting nervous but the residents poured out and we
turned out -- the largest turn out in word through (ph) history.
SCHULTZ: What does that say? What is last night`s election say about
Ferguson? In the wake of the tragedy of Michael Brown and all of the
unrest that has taken place and the focus, the media focus that`s been on
that community. What does this say?
BELL: I think what it -- it`s not so much what it says, I think it
reinforces the notion that people in Ferguson know Ferguson is a very
community-oriented city. If you have a fundraiser, if someone needs help,
citizens come to the aid. They will show up in droves.
Now having said that, there are pockets of our community that don`t feel
that same connection, particularly on my ward (ph), and so we have to do
more community outreach and try to make our citizens who don`t feel the
same connection. We want to bring them into the fold and make them feel
that they`re valued and a part of the process.
SCHULTZ: Mr. Bell, before what happened in Ferguson, did you ever think,
you`d run for this position?
BELL: You know what, Ed, this is -- I`d run for County Councils, St. Louis
County Council and that was the only time I`d ever run, and that primary
was just a few days before Michael Brown was killed. And so when this
happened just a few days after the primary, you know, mentally and
physically, I was just strained, I wasn`t thinking about running for a City
Council much less anyone`s council and -- but, you know action with certain
situations, it`s certain --
SCHULTZ: So --
BELL: -- sure, you know.
SCHULTZ: So what are your expectations now that African-Americans are
certainly represented on the City Council in Ferguson? Now what?
BELL: Well, I don`t think it`s more so much a, "now what?" as in, what are
we going to do now. What are we going to do --
SCHULTZ: That`s what I mean. That`s how I meant. I don`t want to offend
you by what I said. But I mean, you know, what --
BELL: No, no, no.
SCHULTZ: -- changes in the works that community wants change, what`s the
plan? You know, where do you go from here?
BELL: I think first we have to come together as a community. You know,
we`ve heard enough of the divisive language. We heard enough of mud being
slang. You know, let`s come together and work as one Ferguson.
And to a man, to a woman in Ferguson, I see that, you know, citizens do
seem -- we recognize that there`s challenges that need to be faced and
issues that need to be addressed.
SCHULTZ: Well, and of those is the police --
BELL: So I don`t think that`s going to be a problem.
SCHULTZ: I got to ask you --
SCHULTZ: -- what about the police department?
BELL: Yeah, that`s my biggest issue. I`m a big proponent. I`m a criminal
justice professor as St. Louis Community College in Ferguson and I`m a big
proponent and been screaming from hilltops about community-oriented
policing. And so we have an opportunity to bring in a new chief and I
intend to be very active in that process. And I want someone who`s going
to be community-oriented.
We have to change the culture from the top-down. Officers shouldn`t be
judged on by how many tickets they write, they should judged by how many
people they know in the community.
SCHULTZ: Wesley Bell. Good to have you with us tonight on the Ed Show.
Congratulations and --
BELL: Ed, thank you.
SCHULTZ: -- its change that is certainly needed in Ferguson, Missouri.
We will follow the story. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much.
That is the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.
"PoliticsNation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.
Rev., congratulations on the National Action Network, you got the big
conference going on here in New York, lots of great comments about it.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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