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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, April 11th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Saturday show

Show: UP with STEVE KORNACKI
Date: April 11, 2015
Guest: Hadas Gold, Ben Domenech, David Corn, Patrick Healy, Lincoln
Chaffee, Ben Domenech, Sam Holtz, Dave Malkoff

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST, "UP WITH STEVE KORNACKI": Getting ready for
Hillary.

All right. And good morning to you out there. Thanks for getting UP with
us this Saturday morning. A lot ahead on a very busy morning. And morning
that is full of anticipation because we can finally and finally see the
starting line. Hillary Clinton expected to begin her second run for
president this weekend. Much more on that ahead in the show today.
Including the Bill Clinton factor, the former president, one of the most
popular politicians in the country right now. But can that be said when
his wife is the candidate? There were some problems last time. Will there
be again this time? We`ll also discuss what it means for the rest of the
democratic field that now includes one challenger whose name hasn`t been
talked about pretty much at all until now.

He`ll be here this morning though to explain why he believes Hillary isn`t
the best candidate and why he thinks he can beat her. What does Hillary
for president mean for the republicans looking to reach the White House?
Rand Paul spending his first week on the campaign trail arguing what
reporters. Carly Fiorina meanwhile now spending most of her time talking
about Hillary. A look at both of those candidates, both of those stories
ahead.

Plus, a rivalry for the ages with a game for the ages last night. Who was
still standing after the Red Sox and Yankees played for 19 innings? Also,
this morning, the sixth grader who aced bracketology. His name is 12-
years-old Sam Holtz, he emerged at the very top, that massive ESPN bracket
challenge beating out more than 11 million other Americans. I was one of
them who he beats. Sam will be here at the big board to show us all how he
did it and give you tips for next year.

But we begin this morning with the announcement that has been anticipated
for a long time. And that is finally coming this weekend. Hillary Clinton
declaring her candidacy for president. Her formal entrance into the race
expected today to come tomorrow morning with an announcement on social
media followed this coming week by a series of small events in Iowa. And
then on to the other key early primary states. This is a rollout that is
designed to be small and gradual. No big rallies, no major speeches
expected from Clinton anytime soon. A glimpse of what Clinton will be
saying may have been offered by a new epilogue that was published just
yesterday as news of her announcement was breaking.

And epilogue to her book "Hard Choices." Clinton writing in this new
epilogue this September birth of her granddaughter convinced her to get
back into public service. Quote, "Becoming a grandmother has made me think
deeply about the responsibility we all share as stewards of the world we
inherit. And we one day passed on. Rather than make me want to slow down
it has spurred me to speed up." Still the focus of her rollout will be
less on herself, more on the voters. A campaign source telling NBC News
this will be, quote, "Not a blitz but a slow ramp up over the course of
about 100 days."

After her social media launch tomorrow. Clinton will make her way back as
we said to Iowa for her first in person campaign event of the 2016
campaign. Iowa, of course, the state where her 2008 campaign began to fall
apart with a third place finish in the caucuses there. After Iowa she will
also make her way to New Hampshire. That`s a state that`s been much kinder
to the Clintons, to both Clintons. Toward, Bill Clinton dubbed himself to
come back, kid back in 1992, Hillary bounced back from her Iowa loss and
defeated Barack Obama seven years ago. The Clinton campaign is taking
pains to make this launch look and feel different than most presidential
rollout.

The source telling NBC News, coffee shops and diners, not gymnasiums.
Small scale launch strategy being praised this morning by the architect of
the campaign that beat Clinton back in 2008. David Axelrod telling "The
Washington Post" humility is the order of the day. Last time they launch
as a big juggernaut cloak in the veil of inevitability. And at 20,000
feet, there was a tremendous backlash to that. Clinton begins her second
campaign with a clearer path to her party`s nomination than any non-
incumbent president in either party has ever had in the modern campaign
era. Although, it does looks like she will face at least one challenger in
the democratic primaries. More on that in just a little bit. The same
dominance cannot be seen it all in the republican field with several
candidates jockeying for frontrunner status there. Those numbers though
balanced against this reality for Hillary in trying to succeed Barack
Obama, she will be asking voters to give democrats a third straight term in
the White House. And only once since World War II have voters actually
given the party three terms. As Bill Clinton said himself in a recent
interview, it`s hard for any party to hang on to the White House for 12
years.

Joining us now to talk about Hillary`s launch tomorrow, what we can expect
in the days and weeks ahead, we have Ben Domenech, he is from the -- he`s
the publisher of the Federalist, a senior fellow at the Heartland
Institute. MSNBC political correspondent Kasie Hunt at the table with us.
David Corn, MSNBC political analyst in Washington Bureau Chief for Mother
Jones Magazine. Along with Patrick Healy, national political correspondent
for "The New York Times" who covered Hillary Clinton`s last campaign in
2008 and is back on the beat now. So, Patrick, let`s start with you, I
mean, you watched this all unfold in 2008, I`m sure you can remember her
launch seven years ago, or eight years ago for that campaign. How do you
compare the two?

PATRICK HEALY, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes. Back then, it was about
strength and leadership. It was about being possibly the first woman
president. It was getting out there, trying to talk about how to deal with
the Iraq war, when she had voted to authorize it. Sort of trying to thread
that needle. Trying to sort of show that she could be a strong commander
in chief who would be ready, who would be ready to protect the country.
Now, I think she needs to come up with an even more compelling rationale
than she had back then. I think that she needs to say why she wants to --
where she wants to lead the country to. Without seeming like, look I`ve
been around for 25 years. Why not run again, this is my time. Front
runner status got her in so much trouble the last time around. She was the
one who stopped holding news conferences, who stopped holding town halls
and were just doing those big events. I think now she`s got to go out as
much as possible her people say and talk to voters and make it very clear
what her rationale is. Why she wants to appeal as much to, you know,
people who care a great deal about income inequality as to the Wall Street
types, you know, were democrats.

KORNACKI: Yes. What do you think of this, David? I mean, the idea of
we`re not going to get a big policy speech from Hillary Clinton in the
coming years. They`re not going to be any big rallies. She`s going to go
to diners or whatever, talk to this small groups of voters, pocket book
economic issues, that kind of thing.

DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES: You know, Hillary has a host of problems. It`s
a good position to be leading so much. But she`s going to have to engage
voters for what, a year and a half now. That`s a hard thing for anyone to
do without becoming tired to the voters. You know, to have them think
about her in a creative way and not feel she`s saying the same old same
old. Because even if she starts off with a great message, she`ll be saying
again, over and over in different forms. And if there`s not a competitive
democratic primary to sort of give consumers, political consumers a
different story, the story is just going to be what is Hillary saying,
today, today, today, today, today, today, today? And eventually that`s
going to be hard to keep fresh and new and keep people engaged. So, it`s
interesting whether her task now is to start engaging general election
voters or focus on democrats. There is no reason to focus on democrats,
right?

KORNACKI: That`s interesting. Right. So, there is a reason for that.
We`ll talk to him later in the show today.

CORN: No. Insult -- I meant no insult.

KORNACKI: I`ve heard it once or twice. I do want to play this. This was
so, on the sort of the eve or close to the eve of a rollout. Elizabeth
Warren, who if there has been a clamoring in the democratic grassroots for
somebody in particular to run against Clinton, it`s more focused on Warren
than anybody else. Bill Maher, she was on his show last night and made a
very explicit plea back by money to get her into the race. This is what
happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": If you choose to run, and
you are the candidate, I will find a way to give you a million dollars. So
does that change your thinking at all?

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I`m not running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: We can officially say she`s out. It is interesting, though,
what to expect from Clinton in terms of -- I mean, there will be Martin
O`Malley looked like he`s going to run. Lincoln Chaffee maybe running.
We`ll talk to him later in the show. From what I understand in the Clinton
people, I mean, they`re looking at those early primary states. They`re
going to run out, you know, a real full pledge campaign in those things.
They don`t want to have the impression out there they`re taking anything
for granted.

KASIE HUNT, MSNBC POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And they honestly they can`t.
I mean, those primary states were all her dominance. They`re still small
and unpredictable. I mean, it`s not out of the realm of possibility that
somebody else could win an early primary state and that would be a huge
problem for Hillary no matter how hard she tried to paying herself as not
inevitable. I mean, you just really never know with these things. And I
think, you know, Democrats in Hollywood are clearly yearning for Elizabeth
Warren, and I think in particular. But I think that that impulse,
especially that populist impulse is going to have to play out somehow in
the democratic primary. And I think for Hillary Clinton, at this point,
the question is, what policies is she going to roll out that is going to
talk to that particular segment of the party? I think that`s where the
rubber really going to will meet the road. And if the progressives start
to see that, you know, what, we`re having an impact on this nomination
process. Hillary Clinton is doing some of the things that we think
Elizabeth Warren would do. I think she could help herself with that
particular segment of the party.

KORNACKI: The other part of that too is I mean, now by formally entering.
And we`ll see how available she is to the press, but everything that
happens in news now, there is pressure on her to comment, to weigh in.
It`s no longer, hey, you know, I`m just deciding what to do with my life.
Now I want to be president. Okay, you want to be president. What do you
think of the Iran deal? What do you think of the Corker Menendez, you
know, bill on Iran --

LEAHY: I mean, it`s incredible and it seems like -- we`ll see, you know,
how quickly these hold their feet to the fire. But these 140 statements
that she comes out with, it`s sort of like she considers that sufficient.

KORNACKI: Right, her twitter strategy has been interesting. Right.
Because she`s picked issues that are like, 80/20, 90/10 issues. She`s very
careful on how --

HUNT: Yes.

BEN DOMENECH, THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE: You know, it`s interesting though,
I think, what you`re really talking about here is the challenge for any
candidate that`s operated so long and removed from the voters. And you`re
talking about this populist impulses that are there. Because that`s not
who she is. She doesn`t have that kind of approach when it comes to
reaching out to voters right now. She`s going to have to prove that she
can relate to people on issues that are not just important to the one
percent or the Wall Street. That she can actually connect with them about
their pocket book issues. The problem is, as Davis said, I think that
there`s a long time line here that where she`s going to have to remain
interesting and have to sort of prove that. And I think that that`s going
to be a real challenge for someone who has been --

CORN: She has some capacity to do this. She gave a great speech at the
new America Foundation several months ago when people compared to Elizabeth
Warren. And, you know, in the Clinton administration, people on the right
criticize her for having been, you know, too liberal and too populist on
some of the issues that came up on free trade and welfare reform and other
manners. So, I think when it comes to some of her natural tendencies,
intellectually and policies, she`s towards that side of the party. At the
same time she has fun raised with Goldman Sachs. And the Clinton
Foundation has brought a lot of money. And she hasn`t been as tough on the
banks as Elizabeth Warren has. So, I don`t think it`s an impossible task.
I think it`s a difficult one.

KORNACKI: The other side of it, too, is I mean, look, republicans are
going to spend the next year and a half when they`re not fighting at each
other attacking Hillary Clinton getting ready --

CORN: You think?

KORNACKI: You want a preview of what this is going to look like. So, the
RNC in response of this news already has their first Hillary attack video.
This is a taste of what they`re going to be putting out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Hillary Clinton has some explaining to do.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Used personal e-mail accounts to conduct official
business.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Wants to reset relations with Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Not really working out well.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Potentially catastrophic move for Hillary Clinton.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Millions of dollars for foreign governments.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Landing under sniper fire, it was a total hoax, it was a
lie.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What difference at this
point does it make?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: This is just part for the course for the Clintons,
they`re always a little bit secretive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: Well, there you go. These are real uplifting message. To put
this in some context though of the republicans starting out what they`re
looking at right now when you poll Hillary against the likely republican
candidates had to had. We`ve got the polling averages here nationally.
What you see is, she does have sizable leads nationally, she has sizable
leads over the most likely republican opponents, there you see about seven,
eight points on average. So, nationally she starts off in an inevitable
position here. But as I say, you know, Patrick, the history here of this
country when it comes to third terms, we seem queasy about keeping the same
party in there.

LEAHY: Right. It`s a very high hurdle. And the haunted house, the scary
spooky Hillary, no, it brings up real issues. How is she going to define
herself compared to Barack Obama? As much as compared to the republicans.
I mean, it seems like that`s, you know, one of her short term challenges
right now. It`s to figure out a way to kind of thread the needle, to talk
about the economy, wage growth, jobs in a way that -- look, there has to
be some criticism. I think of what`s gone on over the eight years. She
has to find some way --

KORNACKI: Isn`t there an issue where she can do that?

CORN: I don`t think it`s criticism. I think she has to say, you know,
Obama dealt with a crisis, an economic crisis. Got to a certain point, not
as far as we need to go, here is how we go further. I think that would
play well.

KORNACKI: I mean, the question is -- in general election, she`s going to
be put on the spot. And she`s going to have to answer -- give us an
example. A real example where you have a difference --

CORN: Foreign policy. She has pretty done that in her book. And, you
know, throw Obama under the bus on some foreign policy issues depending on
what`s happening at the time I think.

LEAHY: I think wage growth. I mean, there is so many Americans who feel
like their paycheck hasn`t gone up for the last six-and-a-half years. She
may not need to attack the President in that kind of criticism. But I
think that there will be a lot of democrats who are going to feel like, you
know, my salary has not gone up in six and a half years. Let`s talk
honestly about that.

HUNT: And I think competence, too. I think that, you know, when I talk to
republicans and democrats, everyone says there`s this yearning for, okay,
in 2008 we did hope and change, and everyone was very optimistic. And now,
people just view Washington as dysfunctional and broken. And what they
want is somebody who can go and there and argue, hey, I can actually fix
this. I can work with the system that`s here and make it better. And I
think Hillary Clinton is in a pretty good position to be somebody that can
make that argument.

DOMENECH: It would be more beneficial for Hillary to have a sparring
partner at this point in the race. Even if it was someone who is not going
to make -- doesn`t have a real shot at it. It`s someone just to sort of
trade blows with and get herself ready for the general election.

CORN: Looking like a winner is one of the best things that come out of a
primary for any candidate. You know, beating, having the red balloons
coming down, like red balloons and just showing that you can sort of defeat
someone before the general election. Right?

DOMENECH: Even if it`s --

KORNACKI: Even if Bernie Sanders who is not yet a democrat. We`ll see
what happens in the democratic race. There is some interesting stuff
happening there. As we see Lincoln Chafee, the former Rhode Island
governor may be getting in the race. He will be here in less than an hour.
Thank you though for now to Patrick Leahy at "The New York Times," I
appreciate you being here.

And still ahead, we`ll have more on Hillary`s big rollout going live to
Clinton`s new headquarters. That is in the Bureau of Brooklyn, a look at
who she`s got lined up to work there.

Plus, later why a lot of baseball fans didn`t get much sleep last night.
One to remember, one of the biggest rivalries and else forth. He would
tell you all about those 19 classic innings, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: So now is this the ready for Hillary gathering?
You know, we had good news ready for Hillary. Had their first hire. The
head of e-mail security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: Texas Senator Ted Cruz one of the already announced republican
presidential candidates at last night`s NRA convention in Nashville.
Making light of the biggest political story of the morning. Taking a shot
at Hillary Clinton. We`ll probably hear lot of those from him in many
other republicans over the next year or so.

For more on what`s happening with Hillary Clinton`s imminent campaign
launch, we turn now to NBC`s Kristen Welker who is live in Brooklyn outside
Hillary`s new campaign headquarters. Kristen, we always talk to you.
You`re standing in front of the White House, now you`re standing in front
of -- offices of the former occupant of the White House. What`s going over
there this weekend?

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That`s right. Very
different backdrops this weekend. Right? Steve, well, look, Hillary
Clinton is going to make it official tomorrow. But things are already
gearing up at her campaign headquarters here in Brooklyn. It`s bustling
with newly hired staffers, including a lot of top administration officials
from the Obama campaign, including -- she was of course the communications
director. I can tell you that there`s going to be at least one staff
meeting today. Ahead of that big rollout tomorrow. This is going to be
Clinton 2.0. It`s going to be a retooled campaign. And we`re going to see
that right from the start. From the rollout tomorrow. Clinton is going to
make the announcement on twitter sometime tomorrow afternoon. And then
she`s going to also release a video. The fact that she`s using twitter is
significant. Because you`ll recall that of course social media really
helped sweet President Obama into the White House back in 2008.

So aides say she`s really going to make a robust use of social media to try
to reach out to some of the younger voters. Also unlike 2008 where critics
say she really ran as the likely nominee, she`s going to shed that heir of
inevitability this time around. Instead she`s going to get up close and
personal with voters right from the start. After she makes her
announcement on Sunday, she`s going to hit the road, she`s going to head to
early voting states like Iowa and New Hampshire. She`s going to hold
intimate gathering with voters in their living rooms and VFW Halls and
really try to make some of those personal connections. We`re also going to
see her play up her role as a mom and as a grand mom.

Just yesterday, she released a new epilogue from her book "Hard Choices"
where she really talked about the experience of becoming a grandmother.
Polls show that she is trouncing her democratic rivals. But things get a
lot more difficult for her in a general election. And as you pointed out
at the top, republicans have really seized on the controversy over the fact
that she used her private e-mail as secretary of state. That is chipping
away at her lead in some of these early voting states. So, that`s going to
continue to be an issue for her. She`s going to have to continue to
explain that as well as talk about her record as secretary of state. And
it all gets started tomorrow. We`ll be following it all. Steve, back to
you.

KORNACKI: All right, Kristen. And -- leaders scaffolding in front of that
building. It really is being put together as we speak I guess.

WELKER: Indeed.

KORNACKI: Kristen Welker in Brooklyn, thank you for the update. I
appreciate it. Still ahead, the baseball game that took so young, one
player was a year older by the time it ended. He was 34 when he started,
he was 35 when it`s finished. Can you win the White House while doing
this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Kelly, shhh.

KELLY EVANS, CNBC BUSINESS NEWS: I`m sorry.

PAUL: Calm down a bit here, Kelly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: Rand Paul`s prickly relationship with the media, will it help or
hurt him on the campaign trail?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: Rand Paul officially announced his candidacy for president this
week. But it was what he said the day after that announcement that`s been
getting more attention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, "TODAY" SHOW: You once offered to drastically --

PAUL: Before we get.

GUTHRIE: Wait. Wait. Wait. Once drastically and wanted to cut defense
spending, and now you want to increase it 16 percent, I just wonder if
you`ve mellowed out?

PAUL: Yes. Why don`t we let me explain instead of talking over me, okay?

GUTHRIE: Sure.

PAUL: Before we go through a litany of things you say I`ve changed on.
Why don`t you ask me a question, have I changed my opinion. That would be
sort of a better way to approach an interview.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Is Iran still not a threat --

PAUL: No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen. You`ve editorialized. Let me
answer a question.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

PAUL: You asked a question and you say, have your views changed instead of
editorializing and saying, my views have changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: That was Wednesday, Rand Paul getting testy with the "Today`s"
show Savannah Guthrie. He was also just as fiery with the AP reporter
Philip Elliott that same day when discussing his views on abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: -- reporting exactly the way I said it. Sometimes I think putting in
these categories is a mistake. So, I gave you about a five minute answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: And even yesterday, Paul walked out in the middle of a periscope
interview with a reporter from The Guardian. With less than a week into
Rand Paul`s presidential campaign, he does though have a history of being a
little prickly with reporters. Even going so far as to shoosh the NBC`s
Kelly Evans during an interview with her, two months ago. Clashing with
CNBC`s John Harwood back in 2013 about a former aide who made racially
insensitive comments. Reporters questions for Rand Paul will only get
tougher as the race hits up. How will Rand Paul`s strained relationship
with the press affect his run for president?

Joining the panel right now is Hadas Gold, she`s a media reporter with
Politico. And Hadas, let me start with you, I mean, look, certainly, among
politicians, I think they all have a long list of grievances with the media
with how questions are asked, how stories are written. And a lot of those
grievances they probably have a point on. And certainly when it comes to
the republican base there is always a pretty big appetite for bashing the
media going after the media, all of that said, Rand Paul here is standing
out for his combativeness with the press right now. Is there more of an
upside or down side here for him?

HADAS GOLD, POLITICO REPORTER: Right now. We can`t really tell. You
know, it`s really interesting. I wrote an article on Monday about how Rand
Paul and the media have no love story. And then this week we`re just
seeing that confirmed over and over again in all of these interviews. Now,
on one hand, like you said, there are -- his supporters who are probably
really love this idea of him bashing the media. And David from the
Atlantic had a great point. We`re still talking about him and he announced
on Tuesday, shouldn`t we be on to something else? So, maybe there`s a
point in him acting to say with the media. But from all of my reporting,
this is just who Rand Paul is. In a private setting with reporters, he
just doesn`t really have the patience for them. And this sometimes also
lends itself to other aspects of campaigning. You know, he said that
campaigning for president is absolutely no fun. I`ve heard from people
where he`ll walk into a room to give a speech. He`ll give a speech and
he`ll just leave. He doesn`t work the room or he doesn`t necessarily do
the rope line that a lot of candidates seem to genuinely enjoy.

KORNACKI: David, you are nodding at that.

CORN: I had an experience with him just like that back in the last
campaign when he was out helping his father Ron Paul who was running. You
know, after the debates in New Hampshire, the surrogates come into the spin
room and they ask questions. And they say, wow, their candidate did and he
was doing that for his dad. And I asked a question about some of the news
letters that come out under the Rand Paul name, that had anti-Semitic and
homophobic and racist comments and stories within them. And he literally
turned his back on me. I mean, it`s just like I can`t see you. I can`t
see you. And the next day I try to get at another venue. And he did the
same thing. And I don`t think it hurts him with voters certainly within
the republican base. But to Hadas` point, I think, well, it shows me what
type of guy is he and can he do all the campaigning without getting too
frustrated because it`s not journalist --

DOMENECH: It doesn`t just not hurt him though, it helps him with
republican voters. I mean, this is exactly the sort of thing that they
enjoy. Megyn Kelly --

(CROSSTALK)

KORNACKI: I want to play this first of all. This was his exchange with
Megyn Kelly. Let me get Ben to talk about. This was his exchange though.
Megyn Kelly was pressing him on this point about, you know, are you too
thin-skinned in this campaign. Let`s play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: I do lose my cool. And I lost -- I do lose my temper sometimes.
And I should be better at that. But the thing is, you don`t get any visual
clues. It`s much harder to have -- I think usually when you`re sitting
down with someone it`s easier to have a reasonable conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: So, Ben. What`s your take?

DOMENECH: I think the real thing to understand about Rand Paul here is
that he is going to be himself in this cycle. He`s running as him. And I
think that that really is something where he has no filter for the kind of
-- what he viewed as bs questions from the press. Just to correct
something about what you said about that Guardian interview. He has said
that was the last question. It was not in the middle.

CORN: He is -- he`s flip-flopping and selling the key things he said in
the past. He`s running away from lot of the libertarian positions he`s
had.

DOMENECH: No candidate who has had more access in terms of the press being
able to question.

KORNACKI: I do wonder if that`s about to change now, Kasie?

HUNT: Yes. I think that they have been shutting it down a little bit.
But my question is, what happened when he stands up on those debate stages.
And, you know, the questions are coming from the moderators but they`re
also going to come from other people standing on the stage. And I just
think that at a certain point, if this ultimately comes through in that
kind of a setting, are voters really going to buy that this is somebody
that should be president? I think that is the question that this
particular set of example --

KORNACKI: It`s one -- that`s the thing I wonder, too, in terms of how
republican voters think about this. It`s one things to get their heads
nodding, it`s like, is this guy, is this going to work in the general
election?

CORN: Savannah Guthrie`s questions were appropriate and good questions.
And he never answered them. And they`re questions that are going to come
from republicans as well.

DOMENECH: Of course but I think that Newt Gingrich build his entire
campaign in 2012 basically on bashing the media. I think --

(CROSSTALK)

No, but I think that was the only think that kept him alive.

KORNACKI: That`s South Carolina moment. This Newt Gingrich. But Hadas,
let me ask you about this, the other standpoint that in terms of, you know,
how the media perceives this when you`re report are getting, asking a
question of Rand Paul and he reacts this way and you`re watching one of
your colleagues and he shoosh her or whatever, what does that have an
effect on the press` coverage of Rand Paul in the kinds of questions they
asked him? Is the threat of maybe, oh, no, we`re going to lose access to
him, he`s been a very accessible public figure, we might lose access to him
if we keep rubbing him the wrong way? How do you think the press is going
to handle this?

GOLD: And one hand the press is obviously annoyed. They want to be
respected by the person that they`re interviewing, but there is a very good
point that Rand Paul is actually incredibly accessible to the media. He
does so many interviews, he goes on so many different TV shows. And that`s
a good point. And just like he said, this accessibility is probably going
to change as the campaign keeps going. But the reporters do appreciate
that. And the prickliness at some point, you know, it creates more of a
story. But it is something that they want, just there are questions to be
answered and they want to be taken seriously. And some reports that I`ve
spoken to they say that they feel disrespected like Rand Paul thinks that
they don`t know what they`re talking about and can`t ask a good question.
And that is quite disrespectful to a reporter who has been doing this for
years when they`re just trying to get an answer to a question about
position or policy.

KORNACKI: The other thing too that was raised this week was this idea of
gender, well, you know, female reporters, Savannah Guthrie, female
reporters, Kelly Evans. My take on it was I`ve seen him do this with male
reporters, it`s just what he does. He doesn`t like reporters.

CORN: Although sooshing a reporter and so on, I think -- I`m not sure he`d
do that to a male guy. Maybe. We`ll give him a chance.

HUNT: Look, you know, I`ve interviewed Rand Paul on a number of occasions.
And I`ve never encountered the situation like some of the ones that you`ve
aired. I mean, I`ve in some cases tried to press him on points, and he
just tried to run and said, no, you know, I didn`t actually said that. And
you know, you have the quote in front of you that says actually at one
point, his position was, what you`re pushing him on. You saw that a little
bit with Savannah Guthrie but, you know, I find him to be respectful and
accessible. And like -- even more so than many others in this race.

DOMENECH: I would much rather see that kind of back and forth than have
someone who just operates that are remove from the press and will take any
of this --

GOLD: Exactly. Exactly.

KORNACKI: Yes. That`s the thing. You look at Rand Paul, he`s been the
most accessible today. Anyway, Hadas Gold of Politico, thank you for
getting up this morning, really appreciate that.

GOLD: Thank you.

KORNACKI: Still ahead, it is Hillary`s campaign, but what kind of role
will Bill Clinton have? We`ll share his reaction to reports that he is on
the sideline for this campaign.

And next, how the NRA is positioning itself against Hillary`s strong words
from the group`s leader when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: All right. There`s a lot going on this morning. Time to get
caught up on some of the other headlines making news. Our panel is with
us. "Catching Up" segment. Let`s see our first headline which is from the
-- this is "The New York Times." After seven hours and 19 innings, one hit
sinks the Yankees. So, the longest game at the New Yankees stadium ended
just this morning, 2:13 a.m. the Red Sox and the Yankees, they played for
six hours, 49 minutes. This game was so long that the Yankee`s Mark
Teixeira was 34-years-old when it started and he was 35 by the time it
ended. A very long baseball game. But the good guys won it. Sixty five
in the end.

DOMENECH: I hope I can confess, I am little resentful of having to be on
the show today because otherwise, I ended up watching that game last night.

KORNACKI: I can tell you about experience, it is possible to do this on
two hours of sleep. Not advisable.

HUNT: Why do they want to make baseball shorter? The best games are the
longest ones.

KORNACKI: Exactly. And you know, what? They only have 155 more to go
after this, so you know? What else do we have here? This is Wayne
LaPierre, so this is the big, well, Hillary is getting ready to run for
president, make her announcements, the republicans all gathering for the
NRA convention in Nashville. This is Wayne LaPierre, the head of that
group previewing how he will be handling Hillary Clinton after the next
year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE LAPIERRE, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: Her history of scandal and
controversy, is almost endless. White Watergate, Cattlegate, Jennifer
Flowersgate, nannygate, travelgate, troopergate, filegate, Paula Jones
gate, Vince Foster gate. Helicopter gate, White House coffee gate, Web
Hubble hush money gate. Pardon gate. Illegal gift gate. Monica gate.
Benghazi gate. E-mail gate. Wiped server gate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: That`s a nice trip back to 1994. Is Seinfeld and friends still
on?

CORN: I think half the gates weren`t even gates --

KORNACKI: What did it have to be with Paula Jones by the way?

CORN: Or Jennifer Flowers for one. But you know, he`s out there saying,
you know, she`s going to bring about this era of deceit and deception.
Sort of like, the basic line is, game of thrones winter is coming if you`ll
-- Hillary Clinton. And to bring up Vince Foster just shows how far
they`re going to go. That was actually a tragedy of a guy who got a lot of
negative press in the Wall Street Journal and elsewhere, and he killed
himself. Plain and simple. And they call that scandal and you got the
political purposes. It`s kind of awful.

KORNACKI: But it is interesting to me that there was this sort of, there
was this pause, the sort of the Republicans to the right hit the pause
button in 2008 on the attacks on Clinton. And we kind of forgot I think --

CORN: Yes.

KORNACKI: This is what it was for a long time and now it`s coming back.

HUNT: Well, not only did they hit the pause button. They held her up as
the good kind of democrat. This is the kind of democrat --

KORNACKI: If only Obama were like the Clintons.

HUNT: If only Obama were like the Clintons. Right. Yes.

KORNACKI: And now you can play this out. If Hillary were to get elected,
serve a term. She is nothing like Obama was, we could work with it.

CORN: I mean, the craziness back then. You remember Jerry Falwell was
pitching a video about how the Clintons said kill dozens of people. And
this is even before they got to the White House. And so, I think all of
that will going to come back again. And those of us regrettably who are
old enough to remember, we`ll have not much of a sense of --

KORNACKI: Yes. Another headline here. This is from "Huffington Post,"
"Charlie Hebdo" wandered into the realm of hate speech. This says,
Doonesbury cartoonists Garry Trudeau. Garry Trudeau at the George Polk
journals -- making some interesting comments, Charlie Hebdo about that
French magazine with the caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed. He said,
free speech becomes its own kind of fanaticism.

DOMENECH: I think this is a very disturbing, cowardly comment on his part.
I mean, I really think that this is, of a space of this whole conversation
that says that free speech is itself an act of violence, is an act of hate.
And I think that that`s a very dangerous line to go down.

CORN: I think it`s important how you use free speech. And for me, one of
the best lines in that speech, and I like Garry a lot and I`m of course a
big fan of Doonesbury. Is when he says, you know, as a sadders, you`ve got
to punch up, not punch down. And instead of punching down and making fun
of people`s religions, as opposed to, you know, and not doing it with some
respect is something to discuss and consider. You have the freedom to do
it. And you shouldn`t be hurt if you do it. But, you know, it`s not, I
think a black and white issue.

DOMENECH: I just like this whole idea of punching up and punching down
especially as it relates to religion. You know, in the sense that which
religions are going to be punching up and which ones are going to be
punching down. I think that that`s a very disturbing sort of path to go
down in terms of how we view free speech.

KORNACKI: Yes. Let`s see. Let`s get one more in here. This is from
Politico. This is Eric Holder`s Friday memo to DOJ staff, don`t hire
prostitutes. The memo said that he quote, "Wanting to reiterate to all
department personnel including attorneys and law enforcement officers, that
they are prohibited from soliciting procuring or accepting commercial sex."
This came in response, there were some allegations of sexual misconduct
within the agency. So, the Attorney General of the United States making it
clear to personnel to the Department of Justice that they should not be
hiring prostitutes. We felt we would get that one in.

(LAUGHTER)

Still ahead, how much of former President Clinton will we be seeing on the
campaign trail? Next, also we will go live to South Carolina, that`s where
a man shot and killed by police last weekend will be laid to rest today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: Today, family and friends will gather to remember Walter Scott.
He`s the South Carolina man shot and killed by a police officer. The
funeral for the 50-year-old Scott will be held in Summerville, South
Carolina only miles from where he was killed less than a week ago.

MSNBC`s Adam Reiss is live in Summerville. Adam, what`s going on there,
today?

ADAM REISS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Steve. It`s exactly one
week after the fatal shooting, family and friends will gather here at the
church behind me in about two hours to say their final good byes. To say
good bye to Walter Scott. Now, in about an hour he will receive a police
escort to the church behind me. Last night there was a wake in Charleston
for the family. The mayor arrived and paid his final expects. At the same
time, there was a rally of about 50 people at City Hall. The group black
lives matter. They want an end to police shootings and they want a
civilian review board to keep an eye on local police. Now, why did he run
from Officer Slager when it was a routine traffic stop? Well, we`re
learning more about that. Police documents obtained by NBC News indicate
that he was $18,000 behind in child support payments. And his family
believes he didn`t want to go back to jail. And that is why he ran. Now,
Officer Slager remains in jail. He could be there until August. He has
hired a high powered Charleston attorney to defend him. And he started a
fund online for his defense. It`s raised about $750 -- Steve.

KORNACKI: All right. My thanks to MSNBC`s Adam Reiss live for us in
Summerville, South Carolina. I appreciate that update.

Still ahead. How did a 12-year-old win ESPN`s March madness bracket
challenge? He is standing by at the big board to tell us exactly how he
beat out 11 million other people.

Plus, with Hillary`s big announcement expected tomorrow, what can we expect
from her top surrogate, the explainer in chief? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: More now on the big announcement we are expecting tomorrow,
Hillary Clinton set to launch her second bid for the presidency. Which of
course means that it`s not just Hillary who is re-entering the political
fray but it`s also Bill whose role in her last campaign ended up causing
the candidate some headaches campaigning for his wife in 2008. Bill
Clinton`s poll numbers took a real hit on some of his attacks on Barack
Obama back fired and triggered a handful of media firestorms. In the 70
years, since then though the former president has resurrected his image
especially among democrats. He stole the show at the party`s 2012
convention and served as an invaluable surrogate for Obama on the campaign
trail that fall. After that campaign, Obama notably joked that Bill
Clinton should be named secretary of explaining stuff.

This week, Clinton told town and country magazine that if Hillary runs, his
primary role should, quote, "As a back stage advisor to her until we get
much, much closer to the election." According to "The New York Times,"
Hillary Clinton`s campaign team is devising a strategy to continue the 42nd
president to keep him behind the scenes as much as they can this time
around. But Bill Clinton is pushing back on that report telling Politico
that the piece was, quote, "creative writing." So, what will the former
President`s role be in Hillary`s anticipated campaign?

Back with our panel here. So, see, it`s not just Rand Paul battling with
the media. Bill Clinton has some problems with what they`re saying, too.
But yes, it was so interesting to me to watch him in the 2008 campaign.
Because Bill Clinton in 1992, he really, he led journal Bush Sr. the whole
way after that conviction. In 1996, he led Bob Dole the whole way, the
primaries in `92, he had some hiccups but, you know, it was a pretty
smooth. He was thrown in a position with Hillary in 2008 where they were
running so far behind, running up Hillary in a way he`d never been before.
It really seem like there was frustration that came out in 2008.

CORN: I think he saw that with some of the remarks he made. It had set a
racial connotation to them, comparing Barack Obama to Jesse Jackson and
suggesting he was winning because he was black. That caused a lot of
problem. But I think the remarks he made to town and country of all places
--

KORNACKI: When you look for political news --

CORN: It was quite astute. I think, you know, he`s a smart guy. He`s
good at explaining stuff. It`s also a really good political strategist.
But not to be out in front of the camera, let her do that. And when it
comes down, when you need, at the end of a campaign to have more than one
body going around and talking to the crowd, he`ll be great at that and they
don`t want to use them too quickly. So, I though, my God, if he`s already
thinking this, it will Robby Mook, who is campaign manager`s job a lot
easier in figuring out what to do with Bill Clinton because it seems like
Bill Clinton has a good political idea.

KORNACKI: I mean, in case, that was one of the things in 2008, there was
sort of within that Clinton campaign -- so much has been written about how
dysfunctional the whole campaign was. But there really was sort of a Bill
Clinton department in the campaign and a Hillary Clinton department. And
the lack of communication or sort of how the law or like cross purposes of
the law, it was shocking.

HUNT: It`s clear hit it`s going to be very important for the Hillary
campaign to come up with a bill strategy. Because they mismanaged it last
time. But the idea that Bill Clinton is going to stay out of Hillary
Clinton`s presidential campaign is ludicrous on its face. And it`s
probably not terribly smart of them because he is probably the smartest
political mind in a generation, right? And to put that on the sidelines is
just underutilizing a resource we have available to you. I also will say,
I spent quite a bit of time covering Bill Clinton on the trail in 2014.
His home state of Arkansas was obviously the center of a lot of these
Senate races. And he was to his credit very disciplined when it came to
discussing his wife. He would talk about Arkansas politics. You know,
every question you could ask him he would answer. But if he got asked
about his wife. He said, you know, what? I`m going to get myself in
trouble if I say anything and he never did.

KORNACKI: So, he`s learned some lessons from you.

DOMENECH: I just like the idea that you can contain Bill Clinton. Come
on, that`s just a fantasy land. He`s not going to be contained with cycle.
He is going to be somebody who wants to be out there all the time. And I
think it`s just a question of how disciplined he`s able to be. Because
he`s going to need to be disciplined, he`s going to need to avoid making
comments that cause negative news cycles for her. And I think that`s going
to be a test. He has been I think treated very well by the media in recent
years. I think he`s, you know, basically bounced back from the point that
he was at. And in the context of a campaign though, there`s going to be
different challenges and different questions and I think that he has to be
prepared for that.

KORNACKI: His comeback, David, from -- we show the poll numbers there in
2008. Bill Clinton really had basically his worst ever numbered since he
became a national political figure. There was a poll from NBC News Wall
Street Journal about a month ago, they tested Jeb Bush, George W., Barack
Obama and Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton by far. The most popular on that
list, Bill Clinton.

CORN: Well, if you look at what he`s been doing. Now, there was some
controversy with donations to the Clinton and foundation and initiative.
But if you look at actually the work there doing and Haiti and elsewhere,
you know, pictures of him are him going to Haiti and really working hard to
make things good for the people who are still suffering from the earthquake
there. And what we know about George W. Bush is that he`s painting. So, I
think, you know, the message that`s been coming about his work as an ex-
president has been really quite positive. Because mostly it`s a positive
story. And I bet you, in the coming months, we`ll see a lot more pictures
of Bill Clinton overseas than we will see him working in Iowa or New
Hampshire.

KORNACKI: How much, Kasie, there`s been more attention this week to the
Clinton Foundation, is that something -- does that resonate outside of the
press that`s covering this? Do you think that voters are picking up on
that at all?

HUNT: I think honestly it depends a little bit on how the story evolves
over the course of the next year. But yes, I think it`s a real, it has the
potential to be a significant issue for her. Obviously, they thought it
was important enough in 2008 that they changed the way that they did
things. And so they said, essentially, that, you know, we think that this
was the right way to do that. They`ve changed that. Since then, I think
it just kind of feeds into this, you know, narrative overall the
Republicans are already building about her foreign policy not necessarily
being correct. And I think you combine that with the narrative of secrecy
that surround the Clinton`s home. I think it`s a dangerous place for them.

DOMENECH: But I think it`s all about how much that interest the public
consciousness. In a sense that she writes about her memory quote and what
would her memory quote look like in that new epilogue. If people have the
view that her memory quilt is made up of patches from Goldman Sachs and
Apple and, you know, Wall Street and all this sort of big interests.
That`s going to be something that disturbs them, it`s going to be something
that puts, you know, goes to that sort of insulation factor, the one
percent factor. But I think that --

CORN: As opposed to like Jeb Bush and all the corporate Super Pac money
and the Koch Brothers sucking him. So, I mean, remember all politics is
comparison --

DOMENECH: I understand.

CORN: -- and Hillary Clinton will not, you know, be without comparison to
whoever the republican nominee is. It`s been a lot of corporate --

DOMENECH: But I think it`s all about how much you were able to connect
with people in spite of that. It`s fine to have that money if the
narrative about you as a person is something where you relate to the
challenges of normal people. It`s not okay to have that if you`re --

KORNACKI: It`s funny I used to say before all the scandal and everything.
As you say about Chris Christie. Chris Christie had what democrats call a
top one percent message, but he came across as a 99 percent messenger. At
least, before all this.

Anyway, another full hour of news and politics is ahead. Including what
Hillary have to worry about a real challenge in the democratic primaries.
The new candidate weighing a run, he`ll join us at the top of the hour to
tell us why he`s thinking about taking on Hillary. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: The Democrat who isn`t ready for Hillary.

(MUSIC)

KORNACKI: All right. Thanks for staying with us this Saturday morning.

A lot more to come this hour -- including if it`s not going to be Elizabeth
Warren taking on Hillary Clinton, then who? A new name being talked about,
a new name getting into the mix. He`s going to be here to tell us all
about his potential candidacy just minutes from now.

Also still ahead, how Hillary Clinton`s most fearless adversary is making
waves.

Plus, President Obama forges ahead in a new relationship with Cuba. A live
report from Panama coming up on that.

And also this hour, with a verdict coming this week, is it too soon for
Hollywood to be producing its retelling of the Boston marathon bombings.
We`ll examine that.

And the 12-year-old who got an A-plus in bracketology. We`ll be joined at
the big board by the sixth grader who had the best March Madness bracket in
the country. He beat absolutely everyone, that`s 11 million people. We`re
going to get some tips from him on how he did it.

But we begin this hour with the challenge that Hillary and everyone else
didn`t see coming. We are now thought to be just over 24 hours away from
Hillary Clinton`s official announcement that she`s going to run for
president again. The numbers paint a mixed picture for her right now.
Clinton leading all the most likely Republican candidates by solid margins
in national head to head polls.

But also, new polls in three states this week showing some ominous signs
for Clinton, with outright majorities of voters in Iowa, Colorado, and
Virginia saying she isn`t honest and trustworthy. That`s the bigger
picture here, how Hillary Clinton stacks up against Republicans.

But how about her own party?

So far, the story on the Democrat side has been about who is not running --
that would be Elizabeth Warren who`s adamantly resisted pleas from some
liberals that she challenge Clinton.

Joe Biden, the vice president, also not making any serious moves. The
assumption is he would only run in this race if Clinton were to stumble and
leave it.

And that has left a handful of long shot Democratic challengers to Clinton.
Former Maryland Governor Martin O`Malley, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders,
who we should point out remains a registered independent, he is not
technically a Democrat right now. And also former Virginia Senator Jim
Webb.

As Clinton prepares for her kickoff this weekend, in fact, O`Malley and
Webb are in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. MARTIN O`MALLEY (D), MARYLAND: We still have time, all of us, to
be a great generation of Americans. And our children and their future is
depending on it.

FORMER SEN. JIM WEBB (D), VIRGINIA: We`re never going to find an answer in
the Republican Party on issues like economic fairness, and giving people
who have no voice in the corners of power, the voice that the Democratic
Party, the party of Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman, has always given
them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: And here`s a name no one was talking about until 48 hours ago --
Lincoln Chafee, a former senator and governor from Rhode Island. He took
the political world by surprise on Thursday when he threw his name into the
mix.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINCOLN CHAFFEE (D), FORMER RHODE ISLAND GOVERNOR: I`m Lincoln Chafee.
And I am a Democrat considering a run for president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: Now, Chafee has only been a Democrat for two years now. For
most of his life, he was a Republican, a liberal Republican, the son of
long time Rhode Island Senator John Chaffee. And he was elected to the
Senate in 2000, defeated for reelection in 2006. He then became an
independent, endorsed Barack Obama for president in 2008 and was elected
governor of Rhode Island in 2010. He switched parties again and registered
as a Democrat in 2013 and declined to seek reelection as governor in 2014.

Chaffee is already showing a willingness to attack Hillary Clinton
directly, saying her 2002 vote to authorize military action in Iraq, quote,
"anybody who voted for war should not be president or lead the Democratic
Party into an election."

Chaffee, as a senator, voted against the Iraq war in 2002. Back then, he
was the only Republican in the Senate to cast that no vote.

Challenge for Chaffee and every other Democrat looking to oppose Clinton is
an enormous one. A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found that 86
percent of Democrats say they would be comfortable supporting her. She
also enjoys a larger lead in polls than any non-incumbent presidential
candidate has ever had in a primary race at this point.

But Lincoln Chaffee appears ready to give it a shot. And he joins our
panel live now from Providence, Rhode Island.

Governor Chaffee, thank you for taking a few minutes this morning to talk
with us.

And let me -- let me just start with a very basic question. Until 48 hours
ago, as I said, I had no idea you were interested in this race. Nobody
I`ve talked in the political media had any idea you were interested in this
race.

When did this idea start with you? How did you get to the point where
you`re now saying you might run from president?

CHAFFEE: Well, I`ve also had a passion for international issues and
national issues from my time in the Senate, and my time serving on the
Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate. And after leaving the Senate, I
worked for Brown University Watson Institute of International Studies, and
then became governor and focused on state issues.

But I`ve always had a passion for national and international issues, and
made the decision somewhere in the course of my term as governor that if I
finished my term well, I`d look at the race.

KORNACKI: So, you`ve been thinking about this for a while. That`s
interesting.

One of the things I said in the opening there that jumped out at me in the
last couple of days just listening to you giving interviews is your
willingness to attack Hillary Clinton specifically on this issue of Iraq
war, her vote in 2002, saying that that vote in your mind disqualifies her
for being president.

I just wanted to read Clinton`s -- in her book last year, "Hard Choices",
this is her explanation of that vote. She said, "When I voted to authorize
force in 2002, I said that it was the hardest decision I have ever had to
make. I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I can
with the information I had. And I wasn`t alone in getting it wrong. But I
still got it wrong, plain and simple."

Why is that not good enough?

CHAFFEE: I was there at the same time, and I was looking at the same
evidence. I served for the same time in the Senate, and I made a different
decision.

And elections should be all about adjustment. And this is one of the most
critical judgment calls in American history. We just finished with the
Vietnam Era, some would argue, and to get back into a quagmire overseas
that jeopardizes everything economically that we have here in the United
States, I would argue, as I`ve said, a disqualifier to be president of the
United States, and certainly a disqualifier to be the Democratic nominee.
That should be a Republican war.

KORNACKI: You also said that in the last couple days, that you think
Hillary Clinton is, quote, "a little too close to Wall Street". What do
you mean by that?

CHAFFEE: Raising the money always comes with compromising decisions. I
know Senator Warren has articulated some of these points about Senator
Clinton. But I`m going to really focus on the international issues. We`re
going to have a lot of similarities and -- I will with Senator Clinton.

KORNACKI: I do want to follow up, though, on the question of Wall Street,
though, because you talked about her vote in 2002 to authorize force in
Iraq. It`s a question of judgment, a profound question of judgment in your
mind. I ask people, I`m curious in the party, look at another vote you had
to decide when you were in the Senate. In fact, I think this is one of
your first votes as a senator back in 1999. This was an issue of repealing
something called Glass-Steagall, Glass-Steagall was this depression era law
that separated investment and commercial banking. There were a lot of
people that the repeal in 1999 led directly to the too big to fail moment
in 2008, the collapse of the economy.

This was, we put this up on the screen, Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone at
the time when this was vote was taken in 1999 saying, "Scores of banks
failed in the Great Depression as a result of unsound banking practices.
And their failure only deepened the crisis. Glass-Steagall was intended to
protect our financial system by insulating commercial banking from other
forms of risk. It was one of several stabilizers designed to keep a
similar tragedy from recurring. Now, Congress is about to repeal that
economic stabilizer without putting any comparable safeguard in its place."

Governor Chaffee, you voted for repealing Glass-Steagall.

CHAFFEE: First of all, Senator Wellstone voted against the war in Iraq.
So, he`s one of my heroes.

And you`re right, that was the very first vote. I think it was the very
first vote. My dad had died in office in late October. The governor of
Rhode Island appointed me to his seat in early November. I arrived not
knowing any of the issues understandably, just was mayor of my city of
Warrick and I was running for the Senate, and learning about the issues.
But to know exactly what Glass-Steagall was all about, and it was a
conference report.

The House had passed their version, the Senate had passed their version,
they compromised and come together on this conference report vote. And I
believe the vote was 90-6, or 90-7, or something like that. It was
overwhelming vote.

KORNACKI: It was a lopsided vote, but it did come with warnings uttered on
the Senate floor, including from people like Byron Dorgan from North
Dakota, that this is going to lead to mergers between these giant banks on
Wall Street that will make them, in the words of John Dingle, the
congressman from Michigan at the time, too big to fail. Is it a vote you
regret?

CHAFFEE: Byron Dorgan and John Dingle are right. Yes, I do regret that
vote. But in the context of how I arrived in the Senate, after the funeral
of my father and walking into his office, and the very first, it`s the very
first. It was a conference report. It was a lopsided vote. But I do
regret it looking back.

HUNT: Governor, I just wanted to ask you. I mean, obviously, the Iraq war
played a huge roll in the election in 2008 and really animated the
Democratic Party. But that`s in many ways that the past. We`re, you know,
eight years removed from that. I`m wondering, what is your rationale for
running and what would do into the future?

I haven`t heard you talk very much about your own message and what you
could bring to the race that maybe Hillary Clinton doesn`t bring?

CHAFFEE: Well, a lot of people on one of the previous TV shows I was on,
they said, let`s put that vote in the rearview mirror. But that`s exactly
my point, is that we`re living with the ramifications today, here in 2014
from that 2002 vote. And the Middle East is a mess. Sectarian violence
and it spread into North Africa. So, it`s relevant. That vote is very,
very relevant today.

And if it was all over, and the Middle East was calm, this wouldn`t be an
issue. But it is an issue because it`s a mess there in the Middle East.

As far as what I would do, I want to be a peacemaker. I see Senator
Clinton as finishing her secretary of state tenure with more wars than when
she started.

HUNT: Of all the candidates --

CHAFFEE: I give John Kerry, he`s making peace with Iran. He`s making
peace with Cuba.

HUNT: Of all the candidates in this race, possibly Senator Rand Paul
sounds the most like what you`re saying right now as opposed to Hillary
Clinton. Do you think Senator Paul would be a better president than
Secretary Clinton?

CHAFFEE: I`m in the Democratic primary. I`m going to let the Republicans
sort out their primaries. That`s my challenge.

KORNACKI: Let me ask you this, your criticisms of Hillary Clinton, we put
the poll numbers up at the start of this segment. It jumped at me looking
at the swing states of Iowa, of Colorado, of Virginia, outright majorities.
I think 56 percent was the number in those states saying they don`t
consider Hillary Clinton honest and trustworthy. Do you?

CHAFFEE: I`m -- I run on my political career as trust Chaffee. And when I
started as a city councilman and as a mayor, and I live up to that. So, I
don`t think I`ve ever get those kind of poll numbers.

KORNACKI: But do you think --

CHAFFEE: The voters of Rhode Island always know you can trust Chaffee.
I`m going to run on my own record. I`m going to run on my own record. Not
run on Senator Clinton`s record. And we`ll have a lively debate in the
primaries.

DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES: Can I?

CHAFFEE: And focused on the international issues and our differences
there, whether she has credibility, certainly that Iraq war vote puts an
arrow into her credibility, in my view. Because we were there at the same
time looking at the same evidence.

CORN: Governor, I lived in Rhode Island for a number of years. I`m very
fond of it. So I`ve been watching you and your dad for a long time.

Putting aside -- I know you want to make the focus international relations.
But economic concerns, obviously, will be a big driver of both the primary
and the general election. So can you tell us some of the ideas you might
have and what you would do post the Obama administration in terms of
dealing with flat wages, and, you know, generally what you see about the
state of the economy and how to address it.

Particularly, will there be any difference between you and Hillary Clinton
on that front?

CHAFFEE: Yes, I came in as a candidate for governor of Rhode Island.
Rhode Island is suffering one of the worst of any state during the great
recession, high unemployment, high foreclosures. We had cities and towns
going bankrupt. Even our capital city of Providence WAS eligible for state
intervention, which could lead to bankruptcy.

And I came in and focused on building blocks of a good economy --
education, infrastructure roads and bridges, work force development and
helping our cities and towns. Those four pillars of a good economy, and
that`s not going to change. I`m going to continue that, if I`m elected
president. Invest in infrastructure and education, work force development
and helping our states on the federal level. Make sure the states are in
good financial footing.

KORNACKI: I want to ask you this -- I close with this. This is from the
department of what an incredibly small world we live in sometimes. I just
found this out about you this morning.

Apparently, you were a student -- your high school days at Andover in
Massachusetts at exactly the same time, the same class as another
presidential candidate, Jeb Bush. And not only, apparently, were you guys
in the same class at Andover, but you lived in the same -- it was like
eight of you in the same cottage, I guess.

You lived with Jeb Bush?

CHAFFEE: Yes, I think there were 11 in the cottage. Yes, we know each
other well.

KORNACKI: What was he like? What was Jeb Bush like?

CHAFFEE: Well, that`s for another day. We got along -- we got along well.
We played ping-pong together. We got along well.

KORNACKI: We played ping-pong together. All right --

CHAFFEE: It was a small dorm.

(LAUGHTER)

KORNACKI: I`m sure there are great stories. Maybe we will get them out of
you another time.

But, Lincoln Chaffee, the former governor of Rhode Island, former senator
and possible presidential candidate -- we appreciate you joining us this
morning. Thank you.

CHAFFEE: Thank you for having me on the show.

KORNACKI: All right. Still ahead: Hillary Clinton`s most fearless
adversary is making waves in the 2016 field. That is next.

And later, making friends with a former foe. President Obama forges a new
relation with Cuba at this weekend`s Summit of the Americas.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: How is it that you feel your record on foreign policy is
stronger than Hillary Clinton`s who was secretary of state?

CARLY FIORINA, FORMER HP CEO: I know, as I say, many of the leaders on the
world stage today, I`ve done business or tried to do business in many of
these countries.

REPORTER: And you think your experience is deeper and better than hers?

FIORINA: Well, I think my record of accomplishment is better than hers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: Even before we knew Hillary Clinton`s presidential announcement
was imminent, undeclared Republican candidate Carly Fiorina has been
ramping up her opposition of Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: Nor is it leadership when Secretary Clinton asked, "What
difference does it make?", when our embassy is deliberately attacked by
terrorists and four Americans are murdered, it makes all the difference in
the world, Mrs. Clinton. And the required response has never come.

Like Mrs. Clinton, I, too, have travelled the globe. Unlike Mrs. Clinton,
I know that flying is an activity, not accomplishment.

Mrs. Clinton, please name an accomplishment.

Hillary may like hashtags, but she does not know what leadership means.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett Packard, a failed 2010 Senate
candidate in California as well, consistently polls around 1 percent in the
Republican race. But she is still the only Republican woman who is
seriously vying for a spot on the 2016 debate stage.

And she is using that opportunity, as you see in those clips to forcefully
and pointedly attack Hillary Clinton in ways her male counterparts in the
Republican field largely have not. So much so, that she has been dubbed
the anti-Hillary Clinton of the Republican Party. It`s a role that could
help her standing nationally within the party and maybe her party`s general
election chances as well.

Our panel is back here with me to talk about the Carly Fiorina factor. In
the case, you we showed you in the clip, they`re interviewing here to start
this -- it is striking to me, that -- you can`t seem to be two minutes in a
Carly Fiorina speech without an attack on Hillary Clinton. I know part of
it is she`s just the Democrat, you want to attack a likely the candidate
from the other party. But she stands out among the Republicans for what
she`s doing here.

HUNT: She does. And, frankly, the Republicans need a woman to criticize
Hillary Clinton if they`re going to get through this election cycle without
seeming as though they`re beating up on her. You remember, in 2008, you
know, those are moments where she`s shown, where the president said, now
the president said, "You`re likable enough, Hillary", where she -- it`s
difficult and different to go after a woman candidate than it is to go up
against a man.

And Carly Fiorina has the possibility to play a pretty unique role in this
race. Now, whether that --

KORNACKI: She`s doing her party a favor here.

HUNT: In many ways, yes.

CORN: I think this is a joke. She was the head of Hewlett-Packard, HP,
and they laid off more than 10,000 people on her watch. She was forced out
by the board. Stock prices went up 7 percent when she was forced out. She
oversaw a merger that was considered to be a disaster. And she got a $21
million golden parachute for failing as CEO of that company.

So, if this is what Republicans want to put up, I mean, they`ll play the
sound bites about her attacking Hillary. But once anyone starts to pay
attention to her, they`ll see she has no business being in this race
whatsoever, other than as a -- what`s the opposite punching bag for
Hillary? A puncher --

KORNACKI: So, what do you think is going on here, Ben? How is she being
received among Republicans?

BEN DOMENECH, THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE: I actually think that Carly Fiorina
has been received generally in a positive way from a lot of Republican
audiences, sort of surprisingly. She actually over-performed the level of
Republican support that you see, if you look back at the Senate race that
she ran in California.

I think that having a woman on stage who is a professional businesswoman,
who`s had a career on this space, is something that isn`t a negative for
the Republican Party, compared to last time around, they had Michele
Bachmann. Is that really, you know, a comparison that really helps them?

I think it`s good to have her in the race. I don`t think she has a path to
victory or anything like that, but there`s nothing wrong --

KORNACKI: Is there`s something else in it for her, though, in terms of --
she plays the role -- the party doesn`t want 12 guys on the sage saying how
terrible the potential first female president is.

CORN: But they are. But guys are doing that and they`re going to keep
doing it. And she`s adding to the chorus.

But I don`t see her as being the designated anti-Hillary, because you see
Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, they`re chomping at the bit to go after Hillary.
They`re not reticent at all about this. So, the fact she`s up there, too,
won`t I think affect what they do.

HUNT: The tenor of the attacks is slightly different. Sure, you have them
going after Benghazi, you have them going after her policies as secretary
of state. But Carly Fiorina`s attacks are pretty pointed and personal.
And they go after, what Hillary says, you know, I`ve flown all these miles.
I mean that`s pretty I think aggressive and I do think it raises her
profile.

And when they start to get to the point where, you know -- if Hillary
starts to run, you know what, this is history, I`m going to be the first
woman president of the United States -- is your best attack against that
really, you know, over 60 white men? I don`t see that.

KORNACKI: This was -- here`s another aspect of it, too. The ground
Democrats sort of gained in the 2012 election with the idea of war on women
as they called it, and the gender gap and all of that. So, here is Carly
Fiorina addressing how she would stop Democrats from doing that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: If Hillary Clinton had to face me on a debate stage, at the very
least, she would have a hitch in her swing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KORNACKI: That was thought the sound bite I was looking for. She`s
basically making the case, hey, look, you can say war on women against Mitt
Romney. Try saying it against me.

How does that going for her?

DOMENECH: You know, I think that Republicans -- they want more female
faces for their party. They want to be able to put more people forward who
can speak to women`s issues. And I think this is something that she`s
trying to do and it`s filling that role very admirably I think at this
point.

The thing is she`s not going to be president. She`s not going to be the
nominee. But she is I think going to be someone who is going to be rolled
out very regularly by the Republican Party to respond to Hillary, to make
this case against her, and to basically contrast Republican policies and
say, they`re actually better for women, they`re better for professionals,
they`re better for businesses, et cetera.

And that`s her role. I mean -- and I think that she`s going to probably do
a pretty good job of it.

KORNACKI: It is interesting, as we say, I mean, the Hewlett-Packard
background is one thing also. The fact that she was -- she ran for the
Senate and lost. It`s rare to lose a statewide race and you say she
overperformed. But she lost. It`s rare to lose that and then turnaround
and go national. But yes, that`s a tough --

CORN: Rick Santorum.

KORNACKI: Yes, right. Ends up winning 11 states. That`s true.

Still ahead: Tiger Woods is waking up a happy golfer this morning. Someone
else is being talked about as the new Tiger Woods, the new old Tiger Woods
really. That`s coming up.

But, first, while you were sleeping last night, history was being made.
Look at that historic picture right there.

Stay with us. We`ll tell you all about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: President Obama and Raul Castro making history last night with
this handshake. Their first since the administration announced that it was
restoring the U.S. relationship with Cuba.

NBC News senior White House correspondent Chris Jansing joins us now live
from Panama City, Panama.

Chris, wow. I mean, just looking at that picture, that is -- you`re
looking history there. How did this come about? What does it mean?

CHRIS JANSING, NBC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, isn`t that
amazing? I mean, this hasn`t really happened while there hasn`t been a
meeting at least between the leaders of these two nations since 1958. But
just this sort of a chance encounter -- it`s only the second time the two
men has met. They were actually at what was officially the opening of the
Summit of the Americas.

And that was historic in and of itself because Cuba has never been here.
The United States kept them from here. But then, in December, when the
president announced he was moving toward normalization of relations with
Cuba, the decision was made for Cuba to come here and for the meeting
that`s going to happen later today.

Again, it would be difficult to overstate how important this meeting is
going to be. Now, last night, when the two of them actually talked, and
believe me, everybody is looking at this, the pictures and the short video
and parsing it for meaning. They seem very comfortable with one another,
although they don`t know each other virtually at all. Just a couple of, as
we said, chance encounters and a couple of phone calls, including one on
Wednesday.

But they`ll get a measure of each other later today and are expected to
talk about a range of issues, but not the least of which is the president`s
decision to take Cuba off the list of state sponsored terror nations. And
that would open the way for embassies to open, both here and in Cuba. Here
being in the United States, in Washington, D.C.

So, that`s what we`re going to be watching for. That is going to be the
moment or moments definitely of this summit, Steve.

KORNACKI: Well, yes, that normalization we`re watching that take shape in
front of our eyes.

NBC News` Chris Jansing, thank you very much for that. We appreciate it.

JANSING: Sure.

KORNACKI: We`ll have much more on the president`s trip with how our
relationship with Cuba is evolving on tomorrow`s show, when we`ll be joined
by Bill Richardson, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, the
former governor of New Mexico, the former Democratic presidential
candidate. You`re going to want to come back and check that interview out
tomorrow.

But right now, back to the panel. Jeb Bush weighing in on that handshake
you just saw the picture of. He`s weighing in this morning on Twitter,
saying just a few minutes ago this, "Obama meets with Castro but refused to
meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Why legitimatize a
cruel dictator of a repressive regime?"

So, there you have the moment of history, Obama with the Cuban leader, and
now you have the leading Republican candidate here to respond.

CORN: This is the debate -- going forward or sticking with the past.
We`ve had an embargo on Cuba for 50 years. It hasn`t worked. You know, we
shake hands with people who run oppressive governments and regimes from
Saudi Arabia to China every day, in pursuit of our foreign policy
interests. There is something special for Jeb Bush and Cuban -- some
Cuban-Americans about Cuba.

Now, I don`t like the repressive regime of Raul Castro and I`ve been
critical of it. But it`s about time to try something different. And this
will be a true foreign policy --

KORNACKI: Well, is this something -- are Republicans in 2016. You know,
Marco Rubio in particular, he has a family history -- Marco Rubio when
Obama announced this, he was vociferous in opposing this. We have a
polling out this week, the new NBC polling, basically a 2-1 margin people
are saying, we`re over this, we`re fine with this.

Are Republicans going to be running on let`s undo this?

DOMENECH: Well, this is going to be what`s interesting about this cycle.
Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, all have strong ties to the Cuban
community, you know, within it. And they`re all going to be very
vociferously against this.

But Rand Paul is essentially making the saying this hasn`t worked, we need
to move on.

CORN: That`s shifting with them the Cuban American community as well.

DOMENECH: It is. It`s going to be an interesting debate within the
Republican Party about how they approach and criticize both Obama and
within their own party, within their own ranks, the disagreement that they
have about Obama.

KORNACKI: I mean, this feels to me, just looking at where public opinion
is on this, it`s a kind of issue where Republicans ultimately their message
will be something like we don`t like how we did it, we don`t like the
timing, but we got to live with this, and move on. I mean, it`s hard for
me to see an issue like this running on let`s undo this.

CORN: I think Rand Paul`s involvement here is going to make it an issue in
the Republican primary.

HUNT: Yes. I mean, look, I think that this is going to be part of the
overall Republican message. That this president has engaged with many of
our enemies to the detriment of our overall national security. I think
that`s how this fits in to the broader narrative.

And I think we should note also that Jeb Bush`s wife is Mexican-American.
He obviously has very close ties to the Cuban community in Miami.

But this is something that he has been very consistent, and all of this,
Marco Rubio, the whole Cuban-American community, it`s bipartisan. It`s
possible they`re becoming more isolated with time as this issue, and I
think you even see that in the generational splits in the Cuban-American
community. Many of the children of these people who came and fled Cuba
just don`t have the same degree of animosity. They`re more interested in
getting to know their homeland. So, I think public opinion overall --

CORN: There`s an affinity between Americans and Cubans. I`ve been there
twice. They`re interested in us. We`re interested in them.

This artificial embargo that`s existed for 50 years has been what it is,
artificial. And I think once it comes down, you know, we still have a lot
of things to work out. And they need to change in a lot of ways, too. But
it`s all going to be positives and it`s going to be harder and harder for
the Marco Rubios and Jeb Bushes and Ted Cruzes to hold on to their position
of their parents, not even --

KORNACKI: Yes. My cousin married into a Cuban family in Miami last year.
And with the news broke of a normalization a few months ago, I texted him,
I said, you know, I`m genuinely curious, what`s the reaction here? And he
said the whole family is smiling.

CORN: Yes.

KORNACKI: All generations of it.

Anyway, up next, it may be April 11th. But for us, this morning, March
Madness continues. The 12-year-old who beat the entire country, that`s 11
million people with his NCAA bracket. He is waiting for us at the big
board to show us exactly how he did it.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: All right. College basketball one of my favorite sports. March
Madness, one of my favorite times of the year. I don`t think I`m alone.

The recently concluded tournament inspired tens of millions of people like
me to fill out brackets. You don`t even have to be a fan to fill out a
bracket, so many people do it. Even the president gets in on the action
every year; 11.5 million people entering their brackets in the contest on
ESPN`s Web site just this past month.

And out of those 11.5 million, it was a sixth grader from Illinois who
emerged victorious. Twelve-year-old Sam Holtz managing to finish at the
top of the ESPN bracket challenge. Unfortunately, because he`s only 12
years old, Sam Holtz was not eligible to collect the grand prize, which is
a trip to Maui and a $20,000 Best Buy gift card. But he did get an Xbox
from his local Best Buy. And another one that was donated to the Make A
Wish Foundation on his behalf.

And while certainly it isn`t Maui, Sam did get to travel to New York City
to join us here today, right now, on set to walk us through his amazing
bracket at the big board.

Sam, welcome to you. Thanks for coming in and congratulations. It`s kind
of amazing. You beat 11.5 million people. How does it feel?

SAM HOLTZ, HAD NEAR-PERFECT NCAA BRACKET: It feels really good. I mean, I
can`t believe I beat all of them and came in first. So, it feels really
good.

KORNACKI: When did you -- so the tournament starts and those first two
days, Thursday and Fridays, I think they played 32 games total. When did
it start to occur to you, wow, I might have one of the top brackets here?

HOLTZ: It didn`t occur to me until about the elite eight when I checked I
didn`t realize -- I was on the bus and I remember I saw that I was ranked
number six. And so, I sort of --

KORNACKI: You were sixth in the country. So, you`re on the leaderboard,
you see your name there.

HOLTZ: Yes, I`m look, really? I thought it was like a joke or something
like that. But then I realized it was real. And then after every game, I
kept moving up one spot. And then once I reached the championship, I was
first.

KORNACKI: And then ESPN tells you -- you get in first place this thing,
and ESPN tells you, sorry, you`re too young, you can`t get the prize?

HOLTZ: Well, yes. You had to be 18 years or older to get the prize. But
I wasn`t really guaranteed the prize because, of course, you had to -- they
take the top 1 percent and put it in a raffle. So, even if I was eligible,
I still wasn`t guaranteed a prize. So --

KORNACKI: Come on, ESPN, this is not real gambling. This is something
else.

Let me ask you this, though, before we take a closer look at this. Every
year, my biggest frustration is, I follow college basketball year, I think
I`m really smart, I fill out the bracket. It`s destroyed within hours of
the tournament starting every year.

The one who wins the bracket usually is the one, in my mind, who knows the
least about college basketball. They picked randomly and that happens to
work.

How much do you actually follow college basketball? Are you a fan?

HOLTZ: A little bit. I kind of like Notre Dame a lot. So, I watch a lot
of games, but other -- I don`t really watch the season. I like -- I love
watching March Madness, but other than that, I don`t watch that much of the
season.

KORNACKI: So, let`s take a closer look. This is the whole bracket, all 67
games that were played. And basically the key is for all these games that
were played, you`ve got a total of, what, five or six wrong?

HOLTZ: Yes, six wrong.

KORNACKI: You got six wrong. So, basically, this is the first round here.
Most of your wrong guesses were the first round. So, when you got to this
like, Sweet 16, Elite Eight, Final Four, you had all the teams?

HOLTZ: Yes.

KORNACKI: You got all 16 of the Sweet 16 teams?

HOLTZ: No, the Sweet 16, I had two wrong, other than that.

KORNACKI: Oh, OK.

Let`s take a look at some of the upsets that you called. So UCLA was the
11th seed. A lot of people said they didn`t belong. They ended up winning
two games getting to the Sweet 16. What did you see in UCLA that you
liked?

HOLTZ: Well, I really only picked UCLA because two years ago me and my mom
took a trip to California and we were walking around UCLA campus and going
to a lot of shops. So, I kind of just decided that, hey, why not give them
a shot at winning.

KORNACKI: So, if you had gone to Dallas and seen SMU, you might have
picked SMU instead of UCLA.

HOLTZ: Yes, probably.

KORNACKI: See what I mean? It`s the random guesses.

Let`s see another one here. You had -- so, this was a big upset early in
the tournament that you called Wichita State Shockers, it`s one of my
favorite nicknames in all of sports, against Kansas, a cross state rival.
Big upset, Wichita beats Kansas.

You got it, what`s the logic there?

HOLTZ: Well, last tournament, Wichita State was number one ranked seed in
the tournament. So, I thought maybe they still had some good in them. And
I really don`t like Kansas at all.

KORNACKI: I agree with you on that one.

And let`s see, last one here -- Michigan State, this was -- the Final Four
had three number one seeds, all the favorites making it. One surprise
seems, seven seed Michigan State Spartans, they beat four teams, some
really good teams there to get to Final Four. Why did you pick Michigan
State?

HOLTZ: Michigan State might not do that good in the season, but they
always do really good in the playoffs. And they always step up and do
really good in the playoffs. So, I thought that maybe they would make it
to the Final Four this year.

KORNACKI: They did, you`re right. Tom Izzo is the coach there, they
always do well in March.

So, the attention you`ve got for the last week or so, what are your friends
saying to you right now?

HOLTZ: When I first got to school, everyone was like freaking out I was
there. It was pretty cool how they were like jumping on me. I was trying
to open my locker and they were crowded around my locker. So, it was
pretty cool. They were really excited.

KORNACKI: Are they saying, take me to Best Buy with you, that sort of
thing?

HOLTZ: Yes, yes.

KORNACKI: How do your parents feel about this?

HOLTZ: My parents, they`re happy. They`re happy that, you know, I`m
number one in the world. They`re as much as excited as I am for being
number one.

KORNACKI: And I think we were just showing them a minute ago. They came
along with you to New York.

Sam, thanks for joining us. Thanks -- is there one tip -- let me ask you
this, though, next year everybody gets the bracket. What`s the one tip for
filling it out? What`s best piece of advice you can give us?

HOLTZ: Just pick whatever team you really want. Pick the team that you
want to win. Simple as that. Just --

KORNACKI: It`s never worked for me yet. I`ll try it again next year.

Anyway, Sam Holtz, thank you very much. And congratulations, that`s really
cool what you did.

Up next, residents whose homes were in the path of this deadly tornado may
finally be allowed to return home today. What will they find when they go
back? We`re going to go live to Illinois with a live look at the
devastation. That`s right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: Today residents of Fairdale, Illinois, may get to return home to
see what`s left of their homes after a tornado tore through their town on
Thursday night. The tornado killed two people. The entire town was
evacuated. Police said it was too dangerous to return yesterday.

The Weather Channel`s Dave Malkoff is reporting from nearby Esmond,
Illinois, this morning -- Dave.

DAVE MALKOFF, WEATHER CHANNEL: Steve, we are right around the corner from
that town that got taken out. An EF-4 is dangerous.

Pieces like this flying through the air at up to 200 miles an hour. Homes
with roofs just peeling off like this one.

A guy named Tanner lives in this house, and he was not home at the time.
Good thing, because you see the top floor? That`s where his three kids
live. They live on the top floor. In fact, one of the cribs is right up
there. And the tree came crashing through the house and it crashed right
on to the crib in that corner room up there.

This is a story of survival. They happened to be out of town. They were
in contact with their family as they were telling them their home were
lost. Right now, they`re putting the pieces back together.

Two women just around the corner were not as lucky. They were neighbors
and they were also up on the top floor. That`s not the place you want to
be in a tornado. And they were killed.

We have two fatalities here. And a very tight knit community. There`s
only about 100 people who live in Fairdale. And it`s only about a quarter
square mile around.

But everywhere you look, I guess we could kind of pan around here, and you
can see how much damage there is, trees taken out, this was their barn
where they kept their tractor for the farm. That is gone.

And everybody is recovering today. They haven`t been back to their home.
Some people haven`t even seen what they lost yet. So, they are going to go
back to their homes today just to take a look around.

You know, Steve, sometimes yes, it is just things in your house. But there
are things like photos and videotapes and mementos from your kids. It is
heartbreaking to come back and see that you`ve lost everything in a tornado
this big.

KORNACKI: Wow. Dave Malkoff, yes, those are some very sad scenes here.
You`re painting for us here, with the Weather Channel, though. Thank you
for that report. I appreciate that.

And coming up next, out of the woods, a comeback at the Masters and a
record setting performance that has people talking about the next Tiger
Woods.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KORNACKI: There is a lot going on this morning. Let`s get caught up on
the other headlines making news with today`s panel. Although before we do
that, I want to correct the record. We believe that strongly in the show.

Just two segments ago, we had Sam Holtz who won the ESPN bracket challenge,
beat 11.5 million people. And I said, well, his proud parents are here
today in the studio and we showed what we thought were his proud parents,
but they are the equally proud parents of Casey Hunt. It is not often that
we have two sets of parents in the studio. Hence, our confusion but --

HUNT: It is my mother`s birthday this weekend. So, we`re --

KORNACKI: Happy Birthday, mom. She found out about the son she never knew
about who is good at the bracket.

So, anyway, glad we cleared that up.

Let`s see what`s in the headline this is morning. Here`s from "The
Washington Post," a fat tax refund says your strategy is wrong. Of course,
this is it. The tax deadline is coming up next week. I got my H&R Block
appointment for Monday. We`re all scrambling to get this filled out.

This is the advice from "The Washington Post" financial columnist that says
that many people like the big refund, but remember, that means you gave the
government all yearlong, money you could have invested.

It`s like the snow day thing at the end of the school year. Give me the
snow day in the middle of the year. I know I got to pay it back in June,
but I want the big refund. I want to feel like it`s free money.

CORN: It`s like a lot to go. Often, when they give tax cuts, they try to
give them back not all at once because people won`t spend it in stimulus
manner. They try to give you a little bit each year. So, psychology is as
important as anything when it comes to your personal finances.

DOMENECH: I`m in favor of banning withholding.

(CROSSTALK)

KORNACKI: We have breaking news that we want to go to. Apparently the
family of Walter Scott, the man who was killed by that police officer in
South Carolina last week, that family is now arriving at the church. We`re
going to go live there for a report right now?

Oh, no, I`m sorry, I thought we were going live to a report down there.
But as you can see, the family is arriving. The funeral is going to be
later today. The shooting took place it was a week ago today exactly.

And so, now, as you can see a lot of people gathered outside the church
there for the service. Today, Walter Scott will be laid to rest. But
obviously, the story is going to continue for some time to come now.

But stay tuned to MSNBC for more updates throughout the day.

We will now very awkwardly transition back to catching up and some other
headlines making news here. Let`s see, this is from the "Associated
Press". Boston cool to Wahlberg`s plan for a movie on the marathon attack.
Critics are saying it`s too soon for Mark Wahlberg`s planned film "Patriots
Day", he`s calling it. This is about the Boston marathon attack from 2013.

Of course, just this week, you got the verdict for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Now,
we wait a decision on whether he`s going to get the death penalty or not.
And in the middle of all this, Mark Wahlberg wants to start doing a movie.
And in Boston -- a lot of people in Boston are apparently saying, no, too
soon.

CORN: Well, you know, sometimes, it can take five years or longer to get a
movie made and up. So, I don`t know how fast he wanted to do. It will be
hard for him, you know, coming from there as well to do a movie if there`s
a lot of community opposition, maybe hard to measure how much though.

KORNACKI: Yes, the Boston thing, we`ll talk more about this tomorrow,
which is interesting, as this decision on the death penalty comes down.
The polling in Boston shows people are against the death penalty for
Tsarnaev. We`ll talk more about that tomorrow. We have some interesting
guests on that.

Let`s see what else we`ve here. This is from "Pacific Standard Magazine".
I have never heard of this magazine.

CORN: It`s a good magazine.

KORNACKI: "The Unbored Generation". Of course, it is a good one. The
article says in the age of smart phones, boredom may be a thing of the
past. New poll released last week finds that nearly all 18 to 29-year-olds
use a smartphone to avoid boredom. Your phone might be able to save you
from more than boredom because "L.A. Times" reports that scientists think
your phone and GPS sensors could develop an early detection system for
earthquakes.

So, you are saving your fellow men from an earthquake as you play "Words
with Friends".

HUNT: I`m happy to do my part.

CORN: When I talk to people who are younger than me, I say there used to
be days when I was bored. You would end work at 5:00, you go home, you
didn`t have a family yet, and you didn`t have much to do. You couldn`t
work. People couldn`t find you, this was before cell phones, computers and
so on. And so, you`d sit there and say, what am I going to do?

But nowadays, there`s nobody`s to do list is ever finished. You can always
check another email, send another tweet, do another text, catch up with
someone. So, I think there is the end of boredom and I think that`s a bad
thing.

(CROSSTALK)

DOMENECH: Boredom is creativity. Boredom is what`s inspiring you to think
--

KORNACKI: I agree with you. And I`m guilty. I mean, I sit at night, I`m
looking for reasons to use the phone and I have none, but I still use it.

My thanks to today`s panel, though, Ben Domenech from the Heartland
Institute, MSNBC`s Kasie Hunt, David Corn from "Mother Jones". Kasie
Hunt`s family, thank you for being here today, too, as well.

Thank you for getting UP with us. Join us tomorrow at 8:00. More on
Hillary`s big announcement. We will preview the looming indictments as
well surrounding bridge-gate. Plus, former ambassador to the U.N., Bill
Richardson, on President Obama`s newly expanded relationship with Cuba.

Before that, though, you`re going to want to stay tuned for Melissa Harris-
Perry. She is coming up next. We`ll see you tomorrow.



THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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