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The Ed Show for Tuesday, April 14th, 2015

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Date: April 14, 2015
Guest: Caroline Heldman, Richard Viguerie, Bob Shrum, Ben Cardin, Jim
McDermott , Paul Henderson, Leo Gerard

ED SCHULTZ, "THE ED SHOW" HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the
Ed Show live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota.

Let`s get to work.


SCHULTZ: Tonight, One-term Rubio runs for president.

SEAN HANNITY, "THE SEAN HANNITY SHOW" HOST: Why do you have the experience
to be president?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: I had served the four-term in the Senate.

If I were become a president of the United States...

SCHULTZ: Plus, Congressional action over the Iran deal.

SEN. BOB CORKER, (R) TENNESSEE: We have reached a bipartisan agreement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to be involved here.

SCHULTZ: Later, U.S. Steel takes the fight to Capitol Hill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single member of every single union...


SCHULTZ: And Candidate Clinton returns to Iowa.

CLINTON: Thanks for saying hello.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

Marco Rubio has become the third Republican to announce that he`s running
for president, quite the inexperienced field. The 43-year-old freshman
Senator out of Florida immediately said, "Hey, wait a minute. I got more
experience than Barack Obama did back in 2008."


RUBIO: There`s a difference between Barack Obama and I, and I think our
histories are much different. I served in local government, I served at
state government for nine years, in the third largest state in the country,
I was the Speaker of the Florida House, all of that before I even got to
Washington four and a half years ago. By the time I swore in this
president in 2017, I served the four-term in the Senate including extensive
work on the Foreign Relations Committee, on the Select Intelligence
Committee. So there are some significant differences in terms of
experience and background between where I am today and where then Senator
Obama was when he was elected.


SCHULTZ: What spin that is? Every Republican on the race right now has a
few things in common. They are all first term Senators with very little
experience and no executive experience. These guys are one and done
players like the Kentucky basketball team.


your name in the draft, why don`t you just stand -- really? All right,
there you go.


SCHULTZ: Well, you know, this was the narrative back in 2007 and 2008, the
Republican just love to trash than Senator Barack Obama in his lack of


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: If he`s naive or not, I know he`s

GOV. TIM PAWLENTY, (R) MINNESOTA: It`s not the first time that people like
Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or many others have suggested that Barack
Obama isn`t ready to be president, doesn`t have the requisite experience to
be president. And last thing the country needs is a president who the
world might be tempted to test.

MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI, (R) NEW YORK CITY: On the other hand, you have a
resume from a gifted man with an Ivy League education. He worked as a
community organizer.


SCHULTZ: So let`s look at Marco Rubio`s experience since he loves to tout

Now, according to his own website, Rubio`s never held a real job with the
private sector, he is a government guy. I mean, he was a City
Commissioner, a Florida State Representative then Florida House Speaker.
At least President Obama was an attorney in a private practice.

Now, since Rubio was elected back in 2010 to the Senate, he`s really
decided to slack off. This guy has missed 99 out of roughly 1,200 votes.
He`s been absent for over 8 percent of his votes. That makes him number
one in the United States Senate when it comes to missing votes. The
average absentee rate in the Senates is about 2 percent and of course he`s
over 8 percent.

Now, during his announcement on Monday, Rubio, well, he did what
Republicans do, he attacked Hillary Clinton.


RUBIO: Just yesterday a leader from yesterday, begun a campaign for
president by promising to take us back to yesterday. Yesterday is over.


SCHULTZ: Hillary Clinton will not take us to yesterday, Marco Rubio`s
policies certainly will. He`s an anti-populous.

I mean, when Rubio actually decides to show up for work, he sure he`s not
(ph) getting vote in where the people are in this country. Rubio voted to
shutdown the government in 2013 cost the country $25 billion. He wants to
repeal Obamacare, he don`t have a plan to replace it. He is a climate
change denier even though 93 percent of scientists say that we`ve done it.
Rubio is against the minimum wage and always has been. He is against same
sex marriage which of course the right-wing loves. Rubio is voted against
the Paycheck Fairness Act. Rubio wants to repeal President Obama`s
executive orders on immigration although we won`t even stick to his own
plan. He wants to loosen regulation on oil companies, really? And of
course, he wants to cut the corporate tax rates.

This guy is the Citizens United candidate for the billionaires. He`s not
with the people.

After Rubio`s announcement, what did he do? Well, he run right over to
kiss the ring of Sean Hannity, that`s seems to be the thing to do.

During the interview, Rubio came with a genius idea to restore American
military power.


RUBIO: We are gutting our military capability in this country right now,
and that has an impact on the way the world views us. But we need to
reinvigorate our alliances with NATO in Asia with the democracies of Latin
America. We need a missile defense shield in Europe. We need missile
defense shield on both the east and west coast of the United States. We
need a new long-range bomber. We need a new nuclear submarine capability.
These are the sort of things that almost immediately change the perception
of the world with regards to the United States.


SCHULTZ: Almost immediately, we need a new long-range bomber and a nuclear
submarine upgrade. Is that going to solve America`s problems, I don`t
think so.

Marco Rubio was about as green as the Everglades in Florida when it comes
to experience. He`s got the ego of somebody the size of Asia, and without
a doubt he is the most inexperience candidate in the race.

All of the things that he`s stands for is not where the popular vote is in
this country in every poll across the board. So who`s going to support
him? The billionaires.

Get you cellphones out, I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question, "Do you think Marco Rubio has the experience to be
president of the United States?" Go to to cast your
vote. We`ll you the results later on in the show.

For more, let me bring in Caroline Headman who`s a Professor of Politics at
Occidental College, Bob Shrum, Democratic Strategist and Warsaw Professor
of Politics at USC and Richard Viguerie, Conservative Strategist and
Chairman of the Great to have all of you with us

Mr. Viguerie, let me start with you tonight if I can. Is experience an
issue in your opinion with Marco Rubio or actually any of the three that
have announced on the Republican side? Your thoughts.

of all, how quick the left changes up when Obama had been a United States
Senator for two years, prior to that he was a community organizer. He was
imminently qualified the left thought to be president of United States.

Now, we got Marco Rubio who was Speaker of the House of Representatives in
Florida, long years of public service, been a Senator now for going on five
years. So somehow another -- he need more experience than that.

But having said that, I think the quite frankly American might be ready to
look to a governor. I`m not -- we got some good Senators running, Rand
Paul, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, maybe others. But I think after eight years
of Obama, America not turn to a governor (ph), and that`s what they`ve done
most of the last hundred plus years.

You know, probably, Ed, the most unpopular legal institution in America is
the United States Congress. So I think that we`ve got some good Senators
but we got some good Governors running out there too and I think you going
to hear a lot from our Governors, and that`s going to be a nice contrast
against Hillary.

SCHULTZ: OK. Well, I know you`re not a Governor Bush fan and Christie
hasn`t jump in yet. He is pretty much of an establishment guy so am I
hearing you talk about Scott Walker here?

VIGUERIE: Well, there`s Scott Walker, there`s Rick Perry, there`s Bobby
Jindal, there`s a number of good Governors out there. So we`ll just have
to wait and see...


VIGUERIE: But I think quite frankly, the Governors are going to have an
edge over the Senators.

SCHULTZ: All right. So Mr. Viguerie, you don`t think that experience is
an issue with Marco Rubio?

VIGUERIE: Absolutely not. You know, this campaign...


VIGUERIE: ... is not going to be -- one are lost (ph) on experience or
even does Hillary scandals quite frankly. It`s going to be issues and
that`s something that John McCain and Mitt Romney didn`t use against Obama.
He could have been beaten if they had campaigned on the issues. And so
we`re going to see...


VIGUERIE: ... issues contesting (ph) Hillary world view versus the
Republicans world view of the powering individuals whether than empowering

SCHULTZ: All right. Bon Shrum, where is Marco Rubio when it comes to
issues with the popular vote?

Well, he`s on the wrong side of arising electorate on issues like
immigration reform, marriage equality, women`s rights, civil rights, voting
rights, climate change. He wants to make a generational argument but he
doesn`t understand that he`s is relying on superficial misreading of

JFK and Obama attracted young people not just because they were young but
because their ideas appeal to the young.

You know, this whole experience question is in my -- in the sense I think
irrelevant. He`s not running against Barack Obama, he`s running against
other Republicans, he`s going to run against Hillary Clinton who would win
an experience argument hands down. But she is framing the debate in a
different way. Her question is who`s stands up for the middle-class, who
stands up for everyday Americans?

This is a guy as you point out, who`s against the minimum wage. He has a
tax plan that massively redistributes wealth to people at the top.

So I think he`s, you know...


SHRUM: ... he`s the backup choice of the Republican establishment if Jeb
Bush fails, and Richard Viguerie has his way and we get rid of Jeb Bush and
Scott Walker turns out not to be ready for prime time. I think the
Republican establishment could flow toward Rubio because they`re
comfortable with him and he also can get along with the Tea Party.

SCHULTZ: Professor, who is -- what is Marco Rubio`s face outside the
billionaires that are going to have to fund his candidacy?

CAROLINE HELDMAN, OCCIDENTAL COLLEGE: Well, in terms of the public, he
used to be a Tea Party darling up until the moment that he, you know, put
through the immigration reform on the Senate side that then died in the
House. So he has been disenfranchised a bit from the Tea Party. He has
his toe in the moderate side but I actually don`t think he`s enough of
either to get support -- the support that he needs for this candidacy.

And beyond that, you know, I think it`s important to note that while he
maybe inexperienced as a first term Senator, his foreign policy experience
is actually the most that the Republican side has at this point.

And I would agree with Bob...


HELDMAN: ... that this is not going to be based -- a campaign-based on
experience and it`s going to be framed in terms of domestic issues as
Hillary has already done this past Sunday.

But he has the most experienced candidate they have on foreign policy. I
think the Republicans actually have a really big problem with their pool of
candidates this time around.

SCHULTZ: Well -- I was down in Florida doing a series on climate change
that we`re going to air on a few weeks. And I was told by everybody in
South Florida, Mr. Viguerie, that it is Florida. And does this position
Marco Rubio uniquely considering Florida is going to huge. It`s the only
mega swing state.

I mean the left is going to get California, New York, the right`s going to
get Texas and then, you got Florida could go either way. I mean does that
play in Rubio`s favor?

VIGUERIE: Well, I tell you, Ed, to take it in another different direction.
You make reference a few minutes ago to Scott Walker.

And I think, Scott is going to be a very favorable candidate. And if -- I
could see -- right now, if someone made me pick a ticket right now, I would
say maybe Scott Walker for Governor and Rubio for Vice President. That
gives you Wisconsin and Florida. That`s a powerful, powerful ticket.

Going back to the experience issue by the way when John Kennedy ran in
1960, he had literally the worst voting record in the United States. He
missed over half of the votes. He made a big deal...

SHRUM: Well, that`s during the campaign, Richard, come on.


SHRUM: That`s during the campaign. Rubio is going to missed half of the
votes during the campaign.

VIGUERIE: No. No. In the two years that he`s running, he missed half the

SHRUM: In years that he was running -- yes, he missed a lot of votes.
Rubio is going to missed a lot more votes. Yeah. And...

VIGUERIE: By the way, this...

SHRUM: Let`s not play phony history here.

VIGUERIE: Well, talk about phony history, talk about experience, Bob. You
know, he has good experience and there`s dangerous experience.

Joe Biden had dangerous experience. He was wrong on almost all aspects of
the Cold War, SDI opposing the contras in Nicaragua. Hillary, the same

SHRUM: Well, I think that he was right on both those issues.

VIGUERIE: ... fails on foreign policy.

SHRUM: He was right on both those issues. Ronald Reagan almost collapsed
his presidency by giving arms to the Iranians so that they could ship arms
to the contras.

VIGURIE: Robert, you`re saying that Reagan was wrong...

SHRUM: I think that was a bad policy and it almost cost Reagan his

VIGUERIE: Bob, are you saying that Reagan was wrong on SDI and Biden was

SHRUM: Yes. I think he was completely wrong with SDI.

VIGUERIE: There`s a lot of Israeli is alive right now because of SDI.


SHRUM: And the experts think we`re not...


SHRUM: ... going to get one.

VIGUERIE: Bob, there`s a lot of Israelis...

SCHULTZ: All right. So the foreign policy...

VIGUERIE: ... alive right now because of SDI, if the Democrats opposed the
SDI and it`s one of the things...


SHRUM: Yes, and they were right. And Ted Kennedy called it "Star Wars"
and he was right.

VIGUERIE: Well, the...


SCHULTZ: Caroline, your take on this.

VIGUERIE: The voters didn`t agree with you...

SCHULTZ: All right. Your take on this, Caroline.

HELDMAN: My take is that Marco Rubio will probably be a fine vice
presidential candidate this time around and a great presidential candidate.
He is nowhere near ready for prime time.

I see Hillary as the big dog in terms of experience on those foreign policy
and domestic policy, and the Republicans mostly have young pups to offer at
this point.

SCHULTZ: OK. I appreciate the conversation, spirit of discussion.

Caroline Heldman, Bob Shrum and Richard Viguerie,...

SHRUM: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: ... great to you have you on the Ed Show tonight. Thank you so

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at We`ll
have the results right after this break. Like us on Facebook and get my
Facebook feature "Give Me a Minute." You can also get my video podcast at

Coming up, Bob Corker tries to strike a deal on Iranian sanctions. It
looks like he`s got it. And later, another police shooting caught on
camera. We`ll have the latest out of Oklahoma.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Here`s where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll, Do you think
Marco Rubio has the experience to be president of the United States?.

It`s between 80 percent and 90 percent. Closer to 90 percent that, no, he
don`t have a chap (ph) with the experience to be president of the United

We`ll be right back in the Ed Show. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And we are back.

There was moving on Iran today. Senator Corker`s revised Iran nuclear bill
has passed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

The new bill reduces the review period to 30 days.


CORKER: The President cannot lift while Congress is reviewing this, cannot
lift the congressionally mandated sanctions, which is what they`ve been
trying to do and push for over the last couple of weeks.


SCHULTZ: The initial review was cut in half from 60 days. The revised
bill moved some Democrats who were holding out. President Obama is no
longer threatening to veto the bill.

Secretary of State John Kerry still work on the Hill and brief the Senate
today on the interim deal. The Foreign Relations Committee where Corker is
the Chairman unanimously passed the changes.

The bill would give Congress the right to approve or reject the Iran
nuclear deal.

Republicans -- I don`t think going to be satisfied until they have a
confrontation with the Iranians.

There`s no deal. President Obama is going to come up with -- that`s going
to satisfy the right-wing in Congress. They`ll block everything they can.

Joining me tonight, Senator Ben Cardin, member of the Foreign Relations
Committee. Senator, good to have you with us tonight.

SEN. BEN CARDIN, (D) MARYLAND : Ed, it`s always pleasure to be on your
show. Thank you.

SCHULTZ: You know, what turned this deal today? Is this a cave by the
President in the White House? Your thoughts.

CARDIN: No. Not at all. I`ve been talking to the President, I`ve been
talking to the White House over the last 10 days that we`ve been
negotiating. The President, the administration made it clear to me that
they wanted to get the yes but there were fundamental problems in the
Corker bill.

I negotiated, he was able to get significant changes. Changes that took
out of the bill, certain certifications that would have been detrimental
probably would have prevented a negotiated agreement.

I was able also to deal for shorter time period, 30 days rather than 60
days. To make it clear that the reason Congress is reviewing this is that,
Congress is the one who oppose the sanctions and only Congress can release
the sanctions or modify them permanently.

And lastly, Ed, there`s no expedited process here. If the action by
Congress will be taken under normal order but just restricted in time so
all the rights of them and already the Democrats are protected in a

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Senator, do you think we`d be going down this road if the
Democrats had the majority in the Senate? Is -- or is this a lot of
politics here to stall this president`s progress on a negotiated deal with
the Iranians?

CARDIN: Well, you know, clearly there`s a difference that who controls
United State Senate, there`s no question about that. What my objective
wasn`t working with the White House is to make sure the President has the
strongest possible hand in negotiating.

Everyone agrees that to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear weapon state
the best way to do it is through diplomacy, through the negotiations that
the President is conducting with the P5+1. So we want to give the
president ...


CARDIN: ... the strongest possible hand.

SCHULTZ: But doesn`t this weaken the Presidents hand?

CARDIN. No. I don`t think so.

SCHULTZ: I mean, the appearance is -- I believe I can`t speak for the
Iranians but at every move of these negotiations, nothing`s right for the

CARDIN: No. You`re right about that but not this. This agreement will
prevent any votes on the merits of the agreement until after it`s completed
in June...


CARDIN: ... and then it has to go through the normal process which means,
in Senate that 60 vote threshold. The President has the right to veto et
cetera, but there will be no action until after the Presidents submits the
agreement, that`s what the president wanted, so no.


CARDIN: I think this is a positive step for how Congress in a very
thoughtful and in a proper way of reviews the agreements.

SCHULTZ: All right. Now, finally, what is your take on what the supreme
leader in Iran is saying about sanctions happen to be lifted across the
board if this is going to work.

CARDIN: First of all, we don`t believe anything he says. This agreement
will not be based upon trust, it`s going to be a based upon provisions that
prevent Iran from having a breakout capacity for a nuclear weapon within a
short period of time. It`s verifiable and sanctions can be reimpose if
they start breaking this agreement.

So we don`t believe anything that they`ll do or say, so we`re not surprise
that he`s putting a populous spin on the agreement from his perspective.
It will be judge by the terms...


CARDIN: ... of the agreement and how you enforce the agreement.

SCHULTZ: Senator Ben Cardin, good to have you with us on the Ed Show, I

CARDIN: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: . your time, sir. Thank you so much.

Let me bring in Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson former Chief of Staff for
Secretary of State Collin Powell. Colonel, good to have you with us on
this tonight.

Is this a cave by the White House? It seems -- it just like the tail
wagging the dog, your thoughts on this. Is it a big win for the

think so, not at this point. I would agree with Senator Cardin but I
wouldn`t go quite as far as he did in terms of expressing optimism.

I think the Congress has a prerogative here and they should exercise that
prerogative. If they we`re saying it`s over and lies men all (ph), I would
not have any problem with it at all. But I know there at least 47
Republicans and you know which ones I`m talking about, whose purpose in...


WILKERSON: ... life is to derail this agreement.

So I`m hoping that people like Senator Cardin and others in the Democratic
Party, and people like Senator Collins, and Senator Flake, and others in my
party who are, as I`ve said, saying in sober people (ph) are not fooled in
the thinking that these people aren`t going to continue to try to derail
the entire agreement. That`s my concern with it.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. What about Russia? They`re saying that it`s lifting the
ban on the defense missiles to Iran, does this gum up the works a little
bit? What -- how do you see that equation playing out?

WILKERSON: I think the problem there in part at least is Russia`s need for
currency. We had really -- we, the world, damaged Putin`s five-year plan
measurably because the price of oil has sunk so rapidly, fording (ph) even
now with $30.

We`re talking about Russia that has been devastated and the only thing
Putin has to keep his domestic standing going, is standing up for the west
whether its in Ukraine, or wherever, or with regard to his S-300 missiles,
very sophisticated missiles, that he contracted earlier for and then didn`t
fulfill the contract because of the negotiations. And now, seems to be
back on track for fulfilling that contract.

This is dangerous and it shouldn`t be happening, and I hope we see him have
second thoughts about this.

SCHULTZ: Do you think that the President is having a hard time getting
Democrats to stand with them on this? That`s the appearance anyway.

WILKERSON: Yeah. For number of reasons and the number one reason is
spelled (ph) Israel. You got guys like Chuck Schumer who might like to,
you know, I won`t say what I like to do to Chuck. But you got people who
are so in hammered of the state of Israel, so in some cases genuinely
concerned about their security that they`re not going to fall off this in
any way fashion reform if it looks the least a bit like...


WILKERSON: . there might be a problem.

That`s bad because the long-term security of Israel is assured by an
agreement not by what might happen if we don`t have an agreement which is
most assuredly going to be some sort of war.

SCHULTZ: But, Colonel, we`re still in this environment even though Corker,
you know, went from 60 to 30 days, it seems like the framework is very much
in place fore the hawks in the Republican Party to stop this. That there -
- I just get this feeling that they`re behind close doors saying there`s no
way in hell we`re going to have a nuclear agreement with the Iranians,
what`s your response to that?

WILKERSON: I don`t disagree with you. I`m not sure it`s all of the 47 --
for example, I`m not sue it`s Mitch McConnell the leader. I`m not sure if
some of the others who probably regret having singed that letter. But
there`s a significant part of the party that is after President Obama,
after his legacy, after any kind of positive nature to his administration
because it might hurt their prospects in 2016 and otherwise, and because
they frankly hate his guts. And they would like to see this deal derail
that I`m sad to say at the expense of the country.

Because I repeat, again, that there are three -- there are choices here,
you either have the agreement, you go on with containment which will fall
apart rather rapidly and then you go to war the option and no one`s going
to like that option once it`s implemented. If you like the rack you`ll
love the Iran.

SCHULTZ: Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, unvarnished truth, there`s no question
about that. Great to have with you us, Colonel, appreciate your time

WILKERSON: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Coming up, a 73-year-old out of shape, hardly trained Oklahoma
deputy turns himself in after a police thing goes wrong. And Hillary
Clinton kicks off for 2016 campaign in Iowa, lays out her vision somewhat.
We`ll have an update on her first campaign. It`s up next.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Everybody is anticipating what does Hillary going to say. Where she at on
all these issues?

She made her first official campaign stuff in Iowa today. Clinton sat down
with students of Kirkwood Community College in Monticello. She toured the
advance manufacturing facility of the college. During her discussion, she
laid out the four major pillars of her campaign.


CLINTON: I want to be the champion who goes to bat for American in four
big areas. Four big fights that I think we have to take on because there
are those who don`t agree with what I think we should be doing and they are
pretty powerful forces.

We develop the economy of tomorrow not yesterday. We need to strengthen
families and communities because that`s where it all starts. We need to
fix our dysfunctional political system and get unaccountable money out of
it once and for all, even if that takes a constitutional amendment. And we
need to protect our country from the threats that we see and the ones that
are on the horizon.

So I`m here in Iowa to begin a conversation about how we do that.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight Congressman Jim McDermott of Washington. Jim,
always a pleasure, good to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: Hillary Clinton did not say Citizens United but she sure did a
good job at describing it. What your take on that? Is she on point?

MCDERMOTT: She has got an absolutely wonderful message and I really think
standing up for the middle-class is really giving the country back to the
people who make this country great.

The money that`s gotten in because of Citizens United, let`s try to take
that away from the ordinary middle-class people and I think she`s going to
give the power back to them.

I heard her started a community college where the issue ought to be about
student debt. That`s the kind of thing that the middle-class is really
feeling and I think she`ll take it and run with it.

SCHULTZ: You know, she introduced herself to these 20-somethings. These
kids that she was talking to, you know, they were, you know, elementary
school or diapered (ph) kids when she was in the White House. She told a


SCHULTZ: ... about her parents, told the story about her mother, talked
about her church. I mean these kinds of things play in the middle of the
country. I mean, Hillary Clinton is pretty dog on savvy (ph). She knows,
you know, who she is and what Iowans want to hear.

But the news here is that, a constitutional amendment to do something about
money in politics. I mean that is going to swing the "Elizabeth Warren
wing of the Democrats", isn`t it?

MCDERMOTT: Sure, of course, she will. Everybody who looks at politics
today knows that money plays too much of a part and one of the things she
is doing is bringing politics back down to the ground where she is actually
talking to people, stopping at truck stop, shaking hands with people.
Giving them an understanding of who she is in an open way where they can
see both her works and her good parts.

They could see the whole thing and that`s really what politics, what people
are looking for in politics but the money has blown that out and she is
going to make a real pushback in that direction, and get people involved
and realize the power is really with the people.

The people can make this thing happen if they get behind her and I think
they will.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Jim McDermott with us tonight from Washington. Good
to have you with us, Congressman. Thanks for your time.

Stick around, Rapid Response Panel coming up next here on the Ed Show.
We`ll be right back.

Market Wrap.

Stocks end the day mixed, the DOW gained 59 points, the S&P have 3, the
NASDAQ though falling about 11 points.

Revenue and earning from JPMorgan Chase came in better than expected,
shares rose 1.5 percent today though the stock has been lower after hours.

Wells Fargo also posting stronger than expected results before the opening
bell and retail sales rose nearly 1 percent in March. Snapping a three
months losing streak however the reading was below estimates.

That`s it from CNBC, we`re first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

This story is simply bizarre. A 73-year-old reserve sheriff`s deputy in
Tulsa, Oklahoma turned himself into authorities today. Now, he is charged
with manslaughter.

Law enforcement says that Robert Bates, authority was firing a Taser gun
when he shot and killed the suspect.

NBC`s Kevin Tibbles has the story from Tulsa, Oklahoma.



bolts and runs with deputies in hot pursuit and body cameras rolling,
Harris is brought to the ground seconds later.

BATES: Roll on your stomach now.

TIBBLES: Someone says Taser, but a gun shot goes off.

BATES: I shot him. I`m sorry.

TIBBLES: Authority say, 73-year-old Bob Bates, an insurance broker and
volunteer deputy pulled the trigger.

MAYOR SHANNON CLARK, TULSA, OKLAHOMA: He attempted to use a less lethal
device and advertently he used his handgun instead.

TIBBLES: According to authorities, Bates thought he was firing a Taser
gun. Harris` relative say Bates was unqualified and should have known the

ANDRE HARRIS, BROTHER OF THE VICTIM: To see the violence that was taken
towards him, it really -- it turns my stomach...

TIBBLES: Bates is among an estimated 50, 000 reserve officers serving in
all 50 states. He has reportedly donated both money and cars to the Tulsa
Sheriff`s office and has served more than 3,000 hours as a reserve deputy.

CLARK: He had no time that he ever showed that he had an inability
mentally, physically to perform the task.

long as you have plenty of money, you can play sheriff.

TIBBLES: Before their shooting Harris and an ex-convict was caught on
camera in a sting operation allegedly selling a gun to an undercover

HARRIS: HE shot me.

TIBBLES: Harris, however, was unarmed during the scuffle and now, yet,
another investigation into yet another deadly shooting.

HARRIS: He shot me.


SCHULTZ: Robert Bates was booked in photograph in the county jail earlier
today. He was released shortly after posting ban of $25,000 and has not
yet entered a plea.

I`m joined tonight by Dr. James Peterson, MSNBC Contributor and Director of
Africana Studies at Lehigh University also with tonight, Paul Henderson,
Veteran Prosecutor and Legal Analyst.

Mr. Henderson, you first tonight, where is the negligence here and...


SCHULTZ: ... how do we know this guy was qualified?

PAUL HENDERSON, LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that`s -- your raising the exact
issue with, you know, once again, we`re having this tragic conversation
about the unlawful use of deadly force involving an African-American man
and law enforcement. And it`s going to raise the issue from a social
justice lens of what kind of training this deputy received.

We know that prosecutors are likely to use the exact statements that you
just showed talking about the deputy when he is saying "Oh, I`m sorry. I
shot my gun instead of the Taser." And that`s why, specifically, he is
being charged with manslaughter in the second degree which will be the
reckless and unintentional killing which I think should be fairly easy to
prove given the information shown on that video.

But that`s exactly what prosecutor`s charged him in that manner, and it
will raise the secondary issues about what kind of training that volunteer
deputy received...


HENDERSON: ... as he`s assigned to the Violent Crime Task Force to use
deadly force in the public. But, specifically, in this case, in the public
against another unarmed African-American gentleman who is now dead, Mr.

SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Henderson, would it be a defense that this is just an
accident? I mean, you know, he -- what about that?

HENDERSON: It`s not a defense necessarily because this is something that
is likely to occur when you train someone on how to use deadly force or
when you allow someone to use deadly force. And so, when you assign
someone to a violent crime unit, and you arm them with a weapon, there is a
duty by...


HENDERSON: ... an agency to train them properly.

So I think training is going to be a very big issue in this case...


HENDERSON: And then moving forth, the people are going to be looking at
not just for the regular force. And there are issues in the force as well
because in the tape, you also hear comments from another deputy indicating
that he didn`t care when Mr. Harris was saying that he couldn`t breathe
after he had been shot and then, he subsequently died from those wounds.

So I think -- it`s going to lead to a broader expansion and introspection
of exactly what the training is, not just for the reserve deputies...


HENDERSON: ... but for the deputies themselves in terms of how they use
deadly force and what happens after they use a deadly force where there


HENDERSON: ... supposed to be protecting and serving the public in

SCHULTZ: All right. Mr. Peterson, Professor, what`s wrong with this
picture? I mean, it appears like this guy cashed swift (ph) his way into a
position of authority and, you know, we can talk about as experience.
What`s a 73-year-old retired guy doing on a sting operation? I mean...


SCHULTZ: ... where is the city counsel on this? There`s about a million
questions here as to how this guy gotten this position. Your thoughts.

PETERSON: Everything is wrong with this. Just in the moment, we were all
still trying to process the video of the murder of Walter Scott, we get
this particular story.

I`m sorry but Mr. Bates, essentially, appears to brought his way into this
sheriff`s office by donating cars and donating money at the age of 73, and
considering the fact that he hasn`t have training and in a moment, we were
actually wrestling with other nation about how much more training this law
enforcement needs to be able to implement...

SCHULTZ: I know it.

PETERSON: ... the escalation tactics.


PETERSON: We have this guy coming in and shooting off his gun. But
listen, look at the tape, Ed, look at the law enforcement who -- the folks
who have been trained in the video, they have -- the knee is on his head.
He doesn`t -- they don`t care whether or not he can breathe. Lastly (ph),
they aren`t aware of the fact that he shot at that point in time. The
awareness and everything that`s going on with this video is absolutely
wrong but we do have to ask the tough questions, can you buy yourself a
badge? Are you able to purchase your way into a sheriff`s office? And if
so, like, Mr. Henderson is saying, what is that sheriff`s office
accountability for training this person in an environment where we`re
demanding greater training for law enforcement...

SCHULTZ: They`re defending him.

PETERSON: ... so we could stop the killing.

SCHULTZ: I mean, is this -- this is a -- just an embarrassment to law
enforcement of this country and there`s people in Oklahoma in the law
enforcement that are defending this guy. I mean, he cashed swifts (ph) his
position, gets into there and plays Barney fight but now look what we got.

PETERSON: There is no defense here.

SCHULTZ: Another dead unarmed guy, whether he`s a criminal or not...

PETERSON: Another dead unarmed guy -- that`s right. No defense here, Ed.


PETERSON: Listen, if he is convicted of manslaughter, I think the maximum
penalty here is four years. So what do you say to the family of Mr. Harris
here? What do we say to all the communities that have been engage in these
kinds of business? This is another terrible black guy for law enforcement
in the United States.

SCHULTZ: Gentleman, we got to run. James Peterson, Paul Henderson, great
to have you with us tonight.

HENDERSON: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I appreciate your help on the story.

Steelworkers will take to the Hill tomorrow to try to stop fast-track.
That`s ahead of the Punch Out. Stay with us.

They don`t have the votes right now. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: In tonight`s Two-minute Drill, pitch imperfect.

Super Bowl champion, New England Patriots help the Red Sox kickoff their
opening day at Fenway Park with Tom Brady throwing up the first pitch.

Sounds like the right thing to do.

Brady is used to throwing strikes (ph) to the football field but the
pitcher`s man (ph) little different story here. Brady`s fastball didn`t
quite make it to the plate, bounced it in front of the batters box way out
of the strike zone. Red Sox star David Ortiz was behind the dish to scoop
up Brady`s wild pitch.

Don`t give up your day job, Quebie (ph).

And outside St. Louis, holy carp. The freshmen men`s crew team from
Washington University in St. Louis came under fire last week from a flack
of flying Asian carp, none of the rowers were hurt by the fish attack. The
team plans to use the revenue generated from Benjamin Rosenbaum`s viral
video to help fund their trip to the ACRA National Championship in May.

You know, I`ve seen fish jumped in the boat at Wrong Lake in Manitoba, Big
Eddie`s North Country Lodge.

Stick around, there`s lot more coming up on the Ed show, we`ll be right


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, this is the story for the folk who take a
shower after work.

Let`s get right to the campaign trail. Hillary Clinton says she wants to
fight for the common folk in America, the middle-class. Well, now is her
chance or any Democrat to stand up.

A deligation of steelworkers from Granite City, Illinois are going to the
nation`s Capitol tomorrow. They`re lobbying against fast-track, trade
promotion authority which would of course be use to push the Trans-Pacific
Partnership, the steelworkers want to protect their jobs.

Senator Orrin Hatch and Ron Wyden of Oregon, the Democrat, are planning to
introduce fast-track authority for the TPP this week.

Right now, they simply do not have enough votes. The vast majority of
House Democrats are opposed so are a number of Senators.


SEN. SHERROD BROWN, (D) OHIO: We have a real chance if Senator`s listen to
what the public wants, it really as a question of people organizing and


SCHULTZ: Hillary Clinton needs to be on the side of the workers that`s
where she wants to be. I don`t know how any Democrat can be for fast-track
and the TPP and say they`re for the middle class.

For more on this, let`s turn to Leo Gerard, he is the President of
International Steelworkers Union. Mr. Gerard, good to have you with us

I know your work in Capitol Hill because we`re in the 11th-hour on this.
In fact this was supposed to happen back in January, here we are in the
middle of April, what happen?

happened is that, they don`t have the votes to pass fast-track because
there`s a history now that we can look at. There`s a history of what`s
happen after we pass these trade deals.

We look at what`s happen since NAFTA, millions of jobs lost. We look at
what happen with the South American trade deal, thousands of jobs lost. If
you look at what`s happen with PNTR from China, literally, millions of jobs
lost. If you look at the deal with South Korea, we`ve already went from a
balance trade with South Korea to $35 billion trade deficit.

So history of this trade deals as I look at them right in the face and they
can`t bring themselves nor should they bring themselves to pass the fast-
track bill that your ask to endorse without even seeing what`s in the bill.


GERARD: So, Ed, we`re going to have more than workers.


GERARD: We`re going to have more than workers from Granite City here
tomorrow. We`ve got almost 600 rank and file steelworkers from every
sector of the economy that are going to talk to their member of Congress
whether it`s in the Senator (ph) of the house telling them why they`re
against fast-track.

SCHULTZ: Well, what your take on Hillary Clinton or any other Democrat
that jumps in? How important is it for them to oppose this?

GERARD: Well, let me say what we said at the AFLCIO. At the AFLCIO, we
unanimously follow the labor movement, and almost every progressive group,
every environmental group, came out against fast-track. We decided we`re
not going to give any member of the House or Senate or any campaign
committee for this for that. And it funds until we see what happens with
fast-track. And once we`ve seen what`s happen with fast-track then we`ll
go back and assess who are going to support and who are not going to

So this is a crucial bill for the labor movement. I can tell you this, the
crucial bill for manufacturing in America. That`s a crucial bill for the
service sector. If you lose all the industrial jobs in a community, you
can be sure that the public sector after that--people who do the road
maintenance, the people who do the drivers license, the people who do this
snow plowing in a winter.

They`re all going to be affected when we lose the industrial base, so we`re
all united together to make sure that we`re going to assess, how people
vote in this fast-track fight.

SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Gerard, how could a Democratic candidate before the TPP
and go to Lorain, Ohio or Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania or Youngstown or Akron
and say they`re for the middle-class, when these towns -- Lorain -- they`re
all going to get hit hard when it comes to the service industry and

I mean this is where the rubber the hits the road, if they`re going to
support the middle-class. And you mean, we got a lot of Republicans in the
house that are onboard with this because of the sovereignty issue. So
where is this -- how big is this going to play in the campaign as you see

GERARD: I think it`s going to play very big in the campaign. And in fact,
I`ve said to a number of members of Congress today as I`ve been
busy with the politics of this are terrible, the politics of this when you
look at the history of what`s happening with trade deals and we`re going to
be going into an election cycle to alienate your base by trying to pass a
trade deal that no one gets to see.

I mean, you`ve got Republicans that want to see every line and every word
of the deal that the president is trying to negotiate with Iran. But those
same Republicans and the same Tea Party folks, they don`t care if they see
the trade bill that`s going to giveaway our jobs.

I mean hypocrisy that is almost unbelievable. And so I think it`s going to
be bad. It`s going to be hard on the base. And this is the deal that
shouldn`t come up now, it shouldn`t come up at all.

We should use fast-track to say we`re not going to do that and let`s go
back and see if we can get a trade bill that creates net job increases for
American workers. Ed, I say this without fear being run.

Since we started negotiating this bilateral, multilateral trade deals, we
can`t find a trade deal that is created net jobs gains for American workers
and in fact it`s been use to push wages down, it`s added to the income and
inequality that .


GERARD: . we`re wrestling with everyday.

SCHULTZ: And that is the theme of everybody`s campaign for the Democrats,
no doubt.

Leo Gerard with us tonight, President of Steelworkers International, good
to have you on. Thank you so much.

We`ll follow the story, tomorrow is a big day on Capitol Hill, no doubt.

That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz. PoliticsNation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now.

Good evening, Rev.


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